• Re: 1:1 time between campaign and real world

    From Alex Schroeder@21:1/5 to In rec.games.frp.dnd on Sun Jun 16 20:48:08 2024
    In rec.games.frp.dnd [email protected] wrote:
    What do you think about using a straight up 1:1 time between real
    world and campaign in a game? We have been using some of this in the
    games I recently have been playing
    in, and it manages to make for some interesting interactions.
    But on the other hand it also didn't quite interfere with the game as
    much as I though it could, mostly because there was a lull in games
    I think.

    I was thinking lately that esp. Traveller might have been intended to
    be used with something like that, as every jump between different
    worlds is
    exactly one week long. (allowing for players to jump into a system and
    jump out at the end of the game, safely back on their ship)

    As one of the persons running a game with 1:1 time in a multi-referee
    setup, I agree that there are sometimes very long breaks where you'd
    think that people would do something. The party beats the Set cultists
    and the session ends so there's no time to secure a power base and by
    the time you get back, weeks have passed. Fair or unfai?

    In another multi-referee setup, each referee is responsible for a region
    of the setting, each region has a Discord channel and a bot keeps track
    of the current in-game date for each channel. Advance the calendar as
    you see fit, with the long term goals of both using 1:1 time if possible
    , and catching up to the channel who's furthest ahead. Now the the
    problem in AD&D is that training and travel to trainers takes more than
    a week. In some cases, finding a high level magic user means travelling
    to the magic university, the whole trip takes 29 in-game days. So next
    session, there is a little pressure to just advance the calendar by +29
    days. Do this once or twice and your region plays in the future of every
    other region and travel of player characters between regions becomes impossible, making the unique premise a problem.

    So, what to do? In a best-effort hybrid approach I think we would prefer
    1:1 time passing. Then there's no discussion between the referees of the setting. In addition to that, in a particular location, a referee can "l
    ock it up" by not advancing the time between sessions for an extended
    dungeon exploration. The consequences are: the location is "off limits"
    for other parties while this is happening. If, at a later date, the
    first party "gives up" or is slain or imprisoned, any rescue attempts
    must start in real-time, so many weeks later, even if that is also
    problematic. Essentially the feature is: When the camera leaves the
    dungeon, time catches up.

    Such a setup might work better than the two variants I'm experiencing
    right now.

    Cheers
    Alex

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alex Schroeder@21:1/5 to Alex Schroeder on Mon Jun 17 07:39:59 2024
    Alex Schroeder <[email protected]> wrote:
    So, what to do? In a best-effort hybrid approach I think we would
    prefer 1:1 time passing. Then there's no discussion between the
    referees of the setting. In addition to that, in a particular location
    , a referee can "l ock it up" by not advancing the time between
    sessions for an extended dungeon exploration. The consequences are:
    the location is "off limits" for other parties while this is happening
    . If, at a later date, the first party "gives up" or is slain or
    imprisoned, any rescue attempts must start in real-time, so many weeks
    later, even if that is also problematic. Essentially the feature is:
    When the camera leaves the dungeon, time catches up. Such a setup
    might work better than the two variants I'm experiencing

    Just yesterday players said they were unhappy with the current setup
    where my region is ahead of the other regions on the timeline and
    therefore just one day passes between sessions in order to give\ the
    other regions an opportunity to catch up. Since I run more games than
    the others, however, my players feel that effectively their high-level characters that have to travel to distant schools in order to train are
    now out of the game for twenty sessions or more. And that's not cool,
    either.

    I'm suspecting the next iteration will be that if at the end of the
    session somebody needs to go train, and there are no overriding concerns
    , we will skip ahead one week and ignore the need of the other regions
    to catch up.
    right now.

    Cheers
    Alex

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Dallman@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 17 19:39:00 2024
    In article <v4mnis$571$[email protected]>,
    [email protected] () wrote:

    What do you think about using a straight up 1:1 time between real
    world and campaign in a game?

    It's not for me. The amount of activity in a game day varies hugely in
    the games I run: if the characters are on an international journey,
    several game days may pass in a minute of real time, but it may also take several sessions to play out the events of a game day.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From lkh@21:1/5 to Alex Schroeder on Mon Jun 17 19:42:06 2024
    Alex Schroeder <[email protected]> wrote:
    Alex Schroeder <[email protected]> wrote:

    Just yesterday players said they were unhappy with the current setup
    where my region is ahead of the other regions on the timeline and
    therefore just one day passes between sessions in order to give\ the
    other regions an opportunity to catch up. Since I run more games than
    the others, however, my players feel that effectively their high-level characters that have to travel to distant schools in order to train are
    now out of the game for twenty sessions or more. And that's not cool,
    either.

    Hm, I don't know. I'd probably vote for those characters to be out of
    the game, and start some new characters in the meantime.

    For how long *realtime* would they have to "hang around" in the future?
    Three months? I think that'd be acceptable.

    I feel the real problem is, that STRICT TIME RECORS [were] NOT KEPT ...

    Why is your area so far in the future? Why are other areas so far behind?

    If every group agreed to share a common calender then this shouldn't
    be an issue at all.

    I'm suspecting the next iteration will be that if at the end of the
    session somebody needs to go train, and there are no overriding concerns
    , we will skip ahead one week and ignore the need of the other regions
    to catch up.

    Thus aggravating the time problem?

    ~lkh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From lkh@21:1/5 to Alex Schroeder on Mon Jun 17 19:35:16 2024
    Alex Schroeder <[email protected]> wrote:
    In rec.games.frp.dnd [email protected] wrote:
    What do you think about using a straight up 1:1 time between real
    world and campaign in a game?
    [...]
    I was thinking lately that esp. Traveller might have been intended to
    be used with something like that, as every jump between different
    worlds is
    exactly one week long. (allowing for players to jump into a system and
    jump out at the end of the game, safely back on their ship)

    yes, I am convinced it's just like that. Also finding a patron
    takes one week (or rather the group is allowed one roll to find a
    patron per week). Thus the referee should usually get one weeks worth
    of time to dream something up, and present the group with a nice
    patron encounter when next weeks session starts.

    As one of the persons running a game with 1:1 time in a multi-referee
    setup, I agree that there are sometimes very long breaks where you'd
    think that people would do something. The party beats the Set cultists
    and the session ends so there's no time to secure a power base and by
    the time you get back, weeks have passed. Fair or unfai?

    In these cases, I would allow the group to drop back in time. And
    continue where they left off last time. Same thing if we have to end the session in the middle of a dungeon crawl. It happens, and it shouldn't
    be disruptive to the player experience.

    In another multi-referee setup, each referee is responsible for a region
    of the setting, each region has a Discord channel and a bot keeps track
    of the current in-game date for each channel. Advance the calendar as
    you see fit, with the long term goals of both using 1:1 time if possible
    , and catching up to the channel who's furthest ahead. Now the the
    problem in AD&D is that training and travel to trainers takes more than
    a week. In some cases, finding a high level magic user means travelling
    to the magic university, the whole trip takes 29 in-game days. So next session, there is a little pressure to just advance the calendar by +29
    days. Do this once or twice and your region plays in the future of every other region and travel of player characters between regions becomes impossible, making the unique premise a problem.

    "YOU CANNOT HAVE A MEANINGFUL CAMPAIGN IF STRICT TIME RECORDS ARE
    NOT KEPT!"

    So, what to do? In a best-effort hybrid approach I think we would prefer
    1:1 time passing. Then there's no discussion between the referees of the setting. In addition to that, in a particular location, a referee can "l
    ock it up" by not advancing the time between sessions for an extended
    dungeon exploration. The consequences are: the location is "off limits"
    for other parties while this is happening. If, at a later date, the
    first party "gives up" or is slain or imprisoned, any rescue attempts
    must start in real-time, so many weeks later, even if that is also problematic. Essentially the feature is: When the camera leaves the
    dungeon, time catches up.

    I try to avoid it however as much as I can. Having a group that has
    dropped back to the past catch up, can be much more complicated then
    having characters in the future wait until campaign time catches up
    with them.

    Also a group in the past is prone to lock up larger areas of the campaign
    map, just as you describe. We can not know what will have happened
    ... gives me headaches!

    When the group is in the future it's much easier to see.

    cheers,

    lkh

    --
    Laurens Kils-Hütten
    PGP: 487E D5A5 41A1 E9A7 07AD 4990 E34F 096D 35DE 0A86

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alex Schroeder@21:1/5 to lkh on Tue Jun 18 14:34:44 2024
    lkh <[email protected]> wrote:

    I feel the real problem is, that STRICT TIME RECORS [were] NOT KEPT ...

    Why is your area so far in the future? Why are other areas so far behind?

    If every group agreed to share a common calender then this shouldn't
    be an issue at all.

    I think strict time records are kept (using a bot that keeps track of where each area is, with notes by referees about past and future events. It's
    well recorded all right, but the problem is that there aren't the same
    number of games per region. I run the most games, at the moment, and so –
    due to strict time record keeping and only loosely coupled calendars – my region ended up many weeks and months in the future. Now I'm trying to slow
    my region down but the alternative would be to convince all the other
    referees (some of them inactive at the moment) to speed up, skip ahead,
    etc. But it's their region, with their own time records being kept… it’s hard, socially.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alex Schroeder@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Tue Jun 18 14:34:44 2024
    Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:
    I thought Alex' ADnD game had this whole complicated setup with the
    program that keeps tracking the time, just to get around all those
    issues? How did this all happen to go that out of whack? Is Alex just
    running that many games on that server?

    (and not enough Stonehell? :P )

    Exactly true, because on that other server, at least one player proactively organizes dates. Yay Mad Moses!


    I guess one thing one could do is get people out into the planes for
    some adventures, which just happen to be on some planes with a
    completely different flow of time. Or maybe a venture into faerie. You
    come back and it turns out barely any time has passed at all.
    Or some good old time travel shenanigans.

    That would explain why the idea took hold in the first place, for sure!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From lkh@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Tue Jun 18 10:08:17 2024
    Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:
    I guess one thing one could do is get people out into the planes for
    some adventures, which just happen to be on some planes with a
    completely different flow of time. Or maybe a venture into faerie. You
    come back and it turns out barely any time has passed at all.
    Or some good old time travel shenanigans.

    Good Sir, these are excellent suggestions!


    --
    https://social.sdfeu.org/@lkh
    IRC: lkh on Libera.chat and others

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From lkh@21:1/5 to Alex Schroeder on Fri Jun 21 15:53:39 2024
    Alex Schroeder <[email protected]> wrote:
    lkh <[email protected]> wrote:

    I feel the real problem is, that STRICT TIME RECORS [were] NOT KEPT ...

    Why is your area so far in the future? Why are other areas so far behind?

    If every group agreed to share a common calender then this shouldn't
    be an issue at all.

    I think strict time records are kept (using a bot that keeps track of where each area is, with notes by referees about past and future events. It's
    well recorded all right, but the problem is that there aren't the same
    number of games per region. I run the most games, at the moment, and so – due to strict time record keeping and only loosely coupled calendars – my region ended up many weeks and months in the future. Now I'm trying to slow my region down but the alternative would be to convince all the other referees (some of them inactive at the moment) to speed up, skip ahead,
    etc. But it's their region, with their own time records being kept… it’s hard, socially.

    Now I see the catch: "loosely coupled calendars". Keeping time records is
    just one part of the deal. Keeping the game calender in sync with real
    time is the other.

    I'm just looking at Vol. III, The Underworld and Wilderness Adventures,
    page 36:

    1 week actual time = 1 week of game time

    Note that it doesn't say actual minute = game minute, not even
    actual day = game day, as that would be silly. Going by the weeks
    and recording time passed carefully, taking days into account only
    where necessary. That should do the trick.

    As for the shared campaign. As long as player characters don't want
    to travel to a different area, it should be o.k. Also players in your
    area can easily afford to go in a time freeze in the middle of the
    dungeon at the end of a session.

    cheers,

    lkh

    --
    Laurens Kils-Hütten
    PGP: 487E D5A5 41A1 E9A7 07AD 4990 E34F 096D 35DE 0A86

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)