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  • thoughts test-sample X-ray ali welds

    From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 7 11:59:55 2022
    Hi all

    Comments?

    This is for the Ali welding idea.

    Is essentially an all-weld-metal testpiece, but reasonably realistic
    for thermal cycle, the welding condition the welder was presented with
    making the sample / test-piece, etc.

    This is aiming for radiography - but backed-up by side-bends given
    some inter-run lack-of-fusion might not show up on X-ray so know an
    apparently good weld on X-ray is good in all regards.

    Sketch / drawing... http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/welding/weld_imgs/221205_pltedge_allweld_sample.png Rest seen on this page where that drawing features... http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/welding/weld_qual/221128_alimig/221128_ali_mig_qualctrl.html

    Uses edge of a thick plate as "substrate", with couple of held-on
    slightly "sticking up" plates to create groove.
    One good point is to extract the all-weld-metal sample (with a bit of
    remnant plate at the sides), put the welded sample in a saw and make a
    simple cut. Which also "regenerates" the rest of the plate material
    for immediately using on the next test.

    Idea is to get a fair amount of weld per sample so can see the *median*
    result from the welding strategy.
    Ignore a bit of the worst; disregard a bit of the best and see what
    the main story is on weld cleanness when doing it that way.
    Anyone who has a "magic weave" or a "magic setting with my 'Throbatron Supa-Doopa'" which solves everything - show us...

    So yes, thoughts?

    Regards,
    Rich Smith

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 7 20:27:32 2022
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    ... http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/welding/weld_qual/221128_alimig/221128_ali_mig_qualctrl.html

    -----------------

    That is a very professional and persuasive article. Could the British
    procedure be a make-work trade union rule?

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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Thu Dec 8 07:30:16 2022
    "Jim Wilkins" <[email protected]> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    ... http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/welding/weld_qual/221128_alimig/221128_ali_mig_qualctrl.html

    -----------------

    That is a very professional and persuasive article. Could the British procedure be a make-work trade union rule?

    Different response and a question...

    I visualise "a North American Ali-GMAW recommended approach" as
    embodied in the
    Lincoln Foundation "The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding".

    I know from work in oil&gas (very "International") that the American
    "Codes" (your equivalent to our "Standards") have such a different
    "flavour" and get the same job done in a very different way which is
    very pragmatic and, well, for sure, if you followed these rules you
    would always get a good product.

    I'm particularly thinking of AWS D1.n and API Codes including notably
    API1104 for cross-country pipelines.

    So I would visualise that the American recommended practice for
    Aluminum GMAW welds is similarly pragmatic and effective...?

    You do Ali GMAW welds and they are fine and go out to solidly
    reliable service - no, no other story going on here...

    So - a "North American Ali-GMAW way" which works very well?

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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Thu Dec 8 07:19:09 2022
    "Jim Wilkins" <[email protected]> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    ... http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/welding/weld_qual/221128_alimig/221128_ali_mig_qualctrl.html

    -----------------

    That is a very professional and persuasive article. Could the British procedure be a make-work trade union rule?

    "Trade Union rule" - no.
    We have no effective Trade Unions here. They are re-emerging in areas
    like health-care, railways - places with long-term tradionally
    low-paid work (low pay <=> job security and sense of public service)
    as the built-up distortions have seemingly finally "popped" (?).

    Those in engineering and manufacturing who I talk with are "of one
    mind". Describing it briefly is difficult. What's obvious as "movie
    stories" in the mind is hard to briefly write.

    Broadly the it's the onward chain-reaction consequences of
    * no vocational training
    * a system of "managers" in whom all thought is taken to be vested

    15 years ago I had my first Romanian colleague and at first tea-break
    he was sat there with a "1000-yard stare" of total shock. He'd never
    seen conditions like this in his several years in Spain, nor in his
    native Romania.
    It's got worse since...

    It's what happens after years and decades without being firmly
    tied-up/moored to the physical Laws of the Universe.
    If you will; "not supplicating to God's design".

    As a scientist in the sense of by training and research, in the
    oil&gas industry I sometimes counselled just on the basis of intuition
    - well... "You cannot browbeat God".
    That caused some quite annoyed reactions.
    Oh gawd - once I overdid the "winding-up" and this poor fellow, his
    face turned scarlet and - more worryingly - the blood-vessels on his
    temples bulged, while he curled over his desk squealing and going
    through the visualised act of strangulation.
    But yes, exactly the same, couple of days later much chagrinned they
    were looking at exactly what I had suggested in the first place.
    So what you see is a series of very exact edicts and specifications
    about how things will be, trying to coerce the physical outcome in
    ways which have no connection with the reality of the Natural world.

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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 8 07:54:43 2022
    I approached a local college asking if they would host an
    investigative project looking at this.

    A Trade body to do with aluminum not welding said in-principle they
    would look to support such a project perhaps by finding a
    group/consortium of interested members to contribute materials etc.
    Funding to source a large amount of "for information only" radiography
    would be good, to sort through all this and find what's real.

    I think a college would only need a good copper-and-iron "3-phase
    sized" GMAW welding machine fitted with rollers, liner and
    contactor-tip for Ali for the "spray-transfer" welds. While all the "high-power Pulse" welds could be submitted by companies who insist
    their welds are better. They'd be somewhat compelled to prove it...

    I also had one commercial Company support the "my" / "North American"
    Ali-GMAW approach. Arriving for the assignment, they stated the very
    best thing "Simply; give us the best welds you know how".
    I will go back to them.

    I wrote that article, yet to have the "plate edge groove weld test",
    thinking of Companies like that (I use the plural, but there was only
    one), so that after my "pitch" they would have something persistent to
    remind them of what the conversation had been.

    I added the "plate edge groove weld test" because the college is very
    close by and simple logistics made that the first "port-of-call".

    Regards,
    Rich Smith

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 8 08:18:32 2022
    You might like this:

    https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/69497/pg69497-images.html

    Admiral "Jacky" Fisher's memoir includes management advice about dealing
    with obsolete and destructive attitudes as well as the radical advances in naval technology he supported. See "Jolly and Hustle".

    On the infested food of old sailing ships:
    "A favourite amusement was to put a bit of this biscuit on the table and see how soon all of it would walk away. In fact one midshipman could gamble away his “tot” of rum with another midshipman by pitting one bit of biscuit against another. Anyhow, whenever you took a bit of biscuit to eat it you always tapped it edgeways on the table to let the “grown-ups” get away."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fisher,_1st_Baron_Fisher

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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Thu Dec 8 18:48:32 2022
    "Jim Wilkins" <[email protected]> writes:

    You might like this:

    https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/69497/pg69497-images.html

    Admiral "Jacky" Fisher's memoir includes management advice about
    dealing with obsolete and destructive attitudes as well as the radical advances in naval technology he supported. See "Jolly and Hustle".

    On the infested food of old sailing ships:
    "A favourite amusement was to put a bit of this biscuit on the table
    and see how soon all of it would walk away. In fact one midshipman
    could gamble away his “tot” of rum with another midshipman by pitting
    one bit of biscuit against another. Anyhow, whenever you took a bit of biscuit to eat it you always tapped it edgeways on the table to let
    the “grown-ups” get away."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fisher,_1st_Baron_Fisher

    Good reads - you seem quite a source of them.
    Must read the 1880's "locomotive driver" one. "Treasure your
    experience with 'scrappers'" etc.

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 8 18:45:21 2022
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    Good reads - you seem quite a source of them.
    Must read the 1880's "locomotive driver" one. "Treasure your
    experience with 'scrappers'" etc.

    ------------------------

    Apparently stoking the fire to correctly anticipate hills without having to blow off steam (waste fuel) on the down side was quite a trick, and
    engineers were rated on their coal consumption. After 30+ years I still
    can't always predict how a load of firewood will burn, and put remote
    woodstove temperature monitors in the living space.

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  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Thu Dec 8 18:00:42 2022
    On 12/8/2022 5:45 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Richard Smith"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    Good reads - you seem quite a source of them.
    Must read the 1880's "locomotive driver" one.  "Treasure your
    experience with 'scrappers'" etc.

    ------------------------

    Apparently stoking the fire to correctly anticipate hills without having
    to blow off steam (waste fuel) on the down side was quite a trick, and engineers were rated on their coal consumption. After 30+ years I still
    can't always predict how a load of firewood will burn, and put remote woodstove temperature monitors in the living space.


    I was up at 0300 this morning cracking a couple of windows open . It
    didn't get as cold as predicted ... I hate to have to dump heat ,
    there's a lot of work out in that pile of firewood !
    --
    Snag
    "You can lead a dummy to facts
    but you can't make him think."

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