On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 20:12:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

We had a 25 mph headwind all the way out with 35 mph gusts.I wouold be riding along working pretty hard at 12.5 mph and as the gusts hit I would be instantly at 11 mph. Normally this would be somewhat compensated for by a tailwind on the way back but

I guess it was more a cross wind as we turned back.

Congratulations! 12.5 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes quite a bit of
power, something close to 400 Watts. I'm very amazed a guy your age can
do that!

23 miles and average speed of only 8.18 miles per hour average ...

Ah. 8.18 mph sounds much more believable. That might be around 200 Watts.

This is easier and includes more parameters.
I had to guesstimate on some of the values because Tom doesn't
disclose which bicycle he's riding, how much he weight, roadway slope,
etc.

<https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html?units=imperial&rp_wr=199.999&rp_wb=17&rp_a=5.9998&rp_cd=0.63&rp_dtl=2&ep_crr=0.01&ep_rho=0.078035&ep_g=0&ep_headwind=25&p2v=200&v2p=22>
To maintain a ground speed of 12.29 mph into a 25 mph headwind, Tom's
pedaling needs to produce 396.28 watts of power.
(Punch the Units: Metric button to change everything to metric).

At 8.18 mph, 217 watts of power is required. Yeah, that's more
realistic. <https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html?units=imperial&rp_wr=199.999&rp_wb=17&rp_a=5.9998&rp_cd=0.63&rp_dtl=2&ep_crr=0.01&ep_rho=0.078035&ep_g=0&ep_headwind=25&p2v=200&v2p=22>

Without a headwind, 8.18 mph requires on 47 watts of power.


--
Jeff Liebermann [email protected]
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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On 6/21/2025 9:07 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 20:12:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

We had a 25 mph headwind all the way out with 35 mph gusts.I wouold be riding along working pretty hard at 12.5 mph and as the gusts hit I would be instantly at 11 mph. Normally this would be somewhat compensated for by a tailwind on the way back but

I guess it was more a cross wind as we turned back.

Congratulations! 12.5 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes quite a bit of
power, something close to 400 Watts. I'm very amazed a guy your age can
do that!

23 miles and average speed of only 8.18 miles per hour average ...

Ah. 8.18 mph sounds much more believable. That might be around 200 Watts.

This is easier and includes more parameters.
I had to guesstimate on some of the values because Tom doesn't
disclose which bicycle he's riding, how much he weight, roadway slope,
etc.

<https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html?units=imperial&rp_wr=199.999&rp_wb=17&rp_a=5.9998&rp_cd=0.63&rp_dtl=2&ep_crr=0.01&ep_rho=0.078035&ep_g=0&ep_headwind=25&p2v=200&v2p=22>
To maintain a ground speed of 12.29 mph into a 25 mph headwind, Tom's pedaling needs to produce 396.28 watts of power.
(Punch the Units: Metric button to change everything to metric).

At 8.18 mph, 217 watts of power is required. Yeah, that's more
realistic.

Not for an 80 year old. Tommy insists he can only sustain 90 watts. https://rec.bicycles.tech.narkive.com/q35jywK7/average-speeds
"It appears that good riders at 60 can average about 90 watts of full
time power. "

<https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html?units=imperial&rp_wr=199.999&rp_wb=17&rp_a=5.9998&rp_cd=0.63&rp_dtl=2&ep_crr=0.01&ep_rho=0.078035&ep_g=0&ep_headwind=25&p2v=200&v2p=22>

Without a headwind, 8.18 mph requires on 47 watts of power.

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On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:17:20 GMT, cyclintom <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Sat Jun 21 20:12:02 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

We had a 25 mph headwind all the way out with 35 mph gusts.I wouold be riding along working pretty hard at 12.5 mph and as the gusts hit I would be instantly at 11 mph. Normally this would be somewhat compensated for by a tailwind on the way back

but I guess it was more a cross wind as we turned back.

Congratulations! 12.5 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes quite a bit of
power, something close to 400 Watts. I'm very amazed a guy your age can
do that!

23 miles and average speed of only 8.18 miles per hour average ...

Ah. 8.18 mph sounds much more believable. That might be around 200 Watts.

What do you know about the conditions? Must you and Liebermann always pretend to be experts about things you know nothing of?

My alleged lack of expertise has no effect on your intelligence or
expertise. I could be a Nobel Prize winner or a complete idiot and
you would still be Tom, who can't discuss technical calculations and
who delivers insults in place of knowledge.

Tom: Do you really believe that insulting people will make you seem
smarter? Judging by your over-use of the phrase "always pretend to be
experts about things you know nothing of", it's quite possible.

--
Jeff Liebermann [email protected]
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 10:30:00 -0400, zen cycle
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 9:07 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 20:12:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

We had a 25 mph headwind all the way out with 35 mph gusts.I wouold be riding along working pretty hard at 12.5 mph and as the gusts hit I would be instantly at 11 mph. Normally this would be somewhat compensated for by a tailwind on the way back

but I guess it was more a cross wind as we turned back.

Congratulations! 12.5 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes quite a bit of
power, something close to 400 Watts. I'm very amazed a guy your age can
do that!

23 miles and average speed of only 8.18 miles per hour average ...

Ah. 8.18 mph sounds much more believable. That might be around 200 Watts. >>

This is easier and includes more parameters.
I had to guesstimate on some of the values because Tom doesn't
disclose which bicycle he's riding, how much he weight, roadway slope,
etc.

<https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html?units=imperial&rp_wr=199.999&rp_wb=17&rp_a=5.9998&rp_cd=0.63&rp_dtl=2&ep_crr=0.01&ep_rho=0.078035&ep_g=0&ep_headwind=25&p2v=200&v2p=22>
To maintain a ground speed of 12.29 mph into a 25 mph headwind, Tom's
pedaling needs to produce 396.28 watts of power.
(Punch the Units: Metric button to change everything to metric).

At 8.18 mph, 217 watts of power is required. Yeah, that's more
realistic.

Not for an 80 year old. Tommy insists he can only sustain 90 watts. >https://rec.bicycles.tech.narkive.com/q35jywK7/average-speeds
"It appears that good riders at 60 can average about 90 watts of full
time power. "

Oops. There was no provision in the Steve Gribble online calculator
for power reduction with increasing age. More accurately, I didn't
notice and forgot about age. What I did was use the results to
determine what might be considered "realistic". Unfortunately, the
data was not broken down by age. The data seemed to be distributed
for all ages, so I just looked for the 50% median peak in the
distribution curve for males, which is about 260 watts.

"How does your cycling power output compare?" <https://www.cyclinganalytics.com/blog/2018/06/how-does-your-cycling-power-output-compare>

<https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html?units=imperial&rp_wr=199.999&rp_wb=17&rp_a=5.9998&rp_cd=0.63&rp_dtl=2&ep_crr=0.01&ep_rho=0.078035&ep_g=0&ep_headwind=25&p2v=200&v2p=22>

Without a headwind, 8.18 mph requires on 47 watts of power.

--
Jeff Liebermann [email protected]
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/22/2025 6:51 PM, cyclintom wrote:

On Sat Jun 21 20:12:02 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

We had a 25 mph headwind all the way out with 35 mph gusts.I wouold be >>>> riding along working pretty hard at 12.5 mph and as the gusts hit I
would be instantly at 11 mph. Normally this would be somewhat
compensated for by a tailwind on the way back but I guess it was more
a cross wind as we turned back.

Congratulations! 12.5 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes quite a bit of
power, something close to 400 Watts. I'm very amazed a guy your age can
do that!

23 miles and average speed of only 8.18 miles per hour average ...

Ah. 8.18 mph sounds much more believable. That might be around 200 Watts. >>

I think that my Garmin was not recording moving only speed because I
droped the group in both directiond and had to stop and let them catch
up. Drag cannot be easily determined by knowing the speed of the bike
and the speed of the wind...

I think drag can be fairly accurately estimated based on those factors, especially on level ground. Climbing is a different matter, of course -
but if you were to give us accurate data on conditions, the online power calculators would do a pretty good job - at least, well enough to tell
the difference between 400 Watts and 200 Watts!

Indeed looking at my times and estimate power up the big (er) climb I did
on Saturday Strava says 233, which compares to a friends who is broadly the same weight as me, who has a power meter and has 237 recorded, so a tiny difference.

He like me is very unlikely to have gone full effort but ridden well within himself.

1. I would suggest that 400 watts is probably too high.

For someone your age with your self-described physical problems? Yes.

2. The low average speed is very close to what I was recording when I
didn't have moving speed averages. So I think that the 1030 wasn't
recording average moving speed but the speed of the entire ride
including the time at the coffee shop.

If I were a Garmin user and were concerned about gross inaccuracy, I'd
use a stopwatch and mileage info to figure average speed and compare it against the Garmin. This is high school stuff.

The Garmin is fine this as ever is him being Tom! Note on the other thread
he is complaining that the 1030 works differently to the 830 they are part
of the same series use broadly same software the 1030 has a bigger screen that’s it.

Roger Merriman

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