• Re: New York's Crackdown on Ebikes

    From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun May 25 20:06:01 2025
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share

    Yes, it works. The page asks me to login or create an account.
    However, it also give me the option of "Maybe Later" which lets me
    read the aricle.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann [email protected]
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to Catrike Ryder on Mon May 26 10:14:13 2025
    Catrike Ryder <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. “The intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    I guess is the argument that it’s disproportionate? Sounds from the article (though could be incorrect) that traffic volitions are linked to the
    driving License more in the US?

    In uk it’s not so all forms are broadly under same regulations, are clearly exemptions such as speed limits which where introduced for motor vehicles
    only.

    Aka the law is limited rather than broad in scope.

    Roger Merriman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon May 26 05:16:29 2025
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa said. �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to Roger Merriman on Mon May 26 06:42:22 2025
    On 26 May 2025 10:14:13 GMT, Roger Merriman <[email protected]> wrote:

    Catrike Ryder <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    ?This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,? Ms. Guallpa said. ?The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.?

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    I guess is the argument that it�s disproportionate? Sounds from the article >(though could be incorrect) that traffic volitions are linked to the
    driving License more in the US?

    In uk it�s not so all forms are broadly under same regulations, are clearly >exemptions such as speed limits which where introduced for motor vehicles >only.

    Aka the law is limited rather than broad in scope.

    Roger Merriman

    The fact that the NYT published that kind of garbage is why I wouldn't subscribe if it were free. I'm sure they do it to appease their wokie
    readers.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Catrike Ryder on Mon May 26 07:38:31 2025
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. “The intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot
    vote) are ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal
    aliens who, by Statute, cannot work and who are subject to
    summary deportation by the same Statutes, are where her
    sympathies lie.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Catrike Ryder on Mon May 26 07:43:43 2025
    On 5/26/2025 5:42 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On 26 May 2025 10:14:13 GMT, Roger Merriman <[email protected]> wrote:

    Catrike Ryder <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    ?This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,? Ms. Guallpa said. ?The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.?

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    I guess is the argument that it’s disproportionate? Sounds from the article
    (though could be incorrect) that traffic volitions are linked to the
    driving License more in the US?

    In uk it’s not so all forms are broadly under same regulations, are clearly
    exemptions such as speed limits which where introduced for motor vehicles
    only.

    Aka the law is limited rather than broad in scope.

    Roger Merriman

    The fact that the NYT published that kind of garbage is why I wouldn't subscribe if it were free. I'm sure they do it to appease their wokie readers.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    My Saturday paper was digested by the USPS system. I spent
    an hour driving around for a paper, to no avail. Since
    girlfriend was waiting for me to make dinner, I gave up and
    bought a Times, impulsively. Utter waste of money, paper
    and my time to read it. Blecchhhhhh.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Roger Merriman on Mon May 26 07:40:41 2025
    On 5/26/2025 5:14 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
    Catrike Ryder <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    I guess is the argument that it’s disproportionate? Sounds from the article (though could be incorrect) that traffic volitions are linked to the
    driving License more in the US?

    In uk it’s not so all forms are broadly under same regulations, are clearly exemptions such as speed limits which where introduced for motor vehicles only.

    Aka the law is limited rather than broad in scope.

    Roger Merriman

    No license requirement for electric bicycles, nor vehicle
    registration, no number plate, etc. She is imagining a
    different problem from the one in the rest of the article.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Mon May 26 07:45:00 2025
    On 5/26/2025 7:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 5:42 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On 26 May 2025 10:14:13 GMT, Roger Merriman
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Catrike Ryder <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike
    traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the
    paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-
    scooters-cyclists-nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-
    share


    ?This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,? Ms.
    Guallpa said. ?The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a
    situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.?

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman


    I guess is the argument that it’s disproportionate?
    Sounds from the article
    (though could be incorrect) that traffic volitions are
    linked to the
    driving License more in the US?

    In uk it’s not so all forms are broadly under same
    regulations, are clearly
    exemptions such as speed limits which where introduced
    for motor vehicles
    only.

    Aka the law is limited rather than broad in scope.

    Roger Merriman

    The fact that the NYT published that kind of garbage is
    why I wouldn't
    subscribe if it were free. I'm sure they do it to appease
    their wokie
    readers.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    My Saturday paper was digested by the USPS system. I spent
    an hour driving around for a paper, to no avail. Since
    girlfriend was waiting for me to make dinner, I gave up and
    bought a Times, impulsively.  Utter waste of money, paper
    and my time to read it. Blecchhhhhh.



    p.s.
    NYT does have a crossword as good as any. So there's that.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Mon May 26 10:53:45 2025
    On 5/26/2025 9:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike
    traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the
    paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-
    scooters-cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-
    share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms.
    Guallpa said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a
    situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who
    cannot vote) are ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal
    illegal aliens who, by Statute, cannot work and who are
    subject to summary deportation by the same Statutes, are
    where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair
    trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about
    three paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The
    rest deals with the disparity between ebike and car
    enforcement policies, noting that cars kill far, far more
    pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic.
    Yet people are enraged about the comparatively minuscule
    effects of ebikes, and ebike riders are in some ways being
    treated more harshly than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S.
    ebikes are too fast, and/or should be legally treated more
    like motorcycles - meaning integrated into traffic and kept
    off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention
    of immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog
    whistles, even if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.



    I did not inject the comment into the original piece and I
    didn't edit it to ensure that unrelated comment made it to
    press.

    But since it was there, I commented on that non germane
    reference.

    I agree that wheeled vehicles ought to operate in traffic
    under uniform traffic law. And also that laws ought to be
    more or less uniformly enforced as far as practical/possible.

    Good luck with that, as far as persuading your average
    cyclist (under a minute):

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ThOFx0UnkWI

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon May 26 11:25:13 2025
    On Mon, 26 May 2025 10:59:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-
    nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa said. �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is >totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are >enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even
    if you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    The issue is that only left wing jackasses would include that nonsense
    as if it was real news, whereas right wing media would only mention it
    to make fun of it.

    As for ignoring the ebikes speeding, it's nothing new, I've commented
    on that a number of times, and running stop signs is an issue for
    nonmotorised bikes too.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Tue May 27 10:10:45 2025
    Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 1:15 PM, NFN Smith wrote:
    Frank Krygowski wrote:
    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-
    nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share



    Ignoring the political drivel of the story...

    The problem is with classifying ebikes as "bikes" (e.g. 2 wheels) rather
    than accounting the dynamics of a powered vehicle.

    When it comes to bicycles, it's too easy to consider a traditional bike
    to be a "pedestrian", because it's slower than a motor vehicle, and is
    not powered. However a lot of the time, traditional bikes and
    pedestrians are incompatible sharing the same space.

    I agree. In bike advocacy discussions, I've heard very competent people
    point out that bikes and pedestrians mix badly. It can be OK with conscientious cyclists and sensible pedestrians, but both are often absent.

    Even at worse they mix better than motorists do!

    Very much depends on the location and situation, the park paths and so on,
    I use for the commute differ to the cycleway I use which has occasional
    foot traffic, to the newer cycle infrastructure.

    In terms of expectations and speed etc wildly varying.

    I’d again say you get what you design for.

    I've found that even
    multi-use paths are frequently not a good place for serious riding,
    because of the speed differential between a bicycle and a pedestrian.

    Yes. I've heard the term "pathlete" applied derisively to bicyclists
    doing speed work on multi-use paths.

    I’ve not really noticed that, but UK and London is lot more accessible for bicycling than the US, more some runners who are using somewhat
    inappropriate places, or times of day etc.

    And there's even an in-between space for things like unpowered scooters
    or roller blades that are faster than pedestrians but slower than bikes.

    However, with ebikes (and for that matter, powered scooters) when you
    add powered propulsion, then you're adding an extra measure of speed,
    including that too many ebikes are capable of speeds in excess of what
    is possible than for all but the fastest fitness riders.

    And it's been pointed out that to ride at 20 mph, most people require
    years of training. They start slow and tend to make most of their
    mistakes at slow (less dangerous) speeds. But ebikes allow total novices
    to ride faster than most experts.

    This I’d and UK law would class as a moped and should be considered as
    such, at that point particularly with a throttle! It fails the does it walk
    and talk like a duck? Which the pedal assist 15mph cut off do.

    I'm fully of the opinion that any bike should be regarded as a vehicle,
    and generally, ridden on streets, where it's understood by both the
    rider and motorists that the bike is subject to all the rules of the
    road, both rights and responsibilities.  Yet at the same time, I
    recognize there are combinations of road and bike (and rider) that are
    incompatible with each other.  It's not unlike trying to drive a Ferrari
    in a school zone, or taking an antique Model-T Ford out onto a freeway.

    However, the issue with the ebikes is the question of speed, as well as
    the understanding of the rules of the road.  With a motorcycle, it's
    normally necessary to have licensing, both for the bike and the
    operator. Somehow, it seems to have not occurred that just because the
    propulsion system of an ebike is electrical rather than an internal
    combustion engine that the ebike should not be subject to the same rules
    as the motorcycle, rather than being regarded in the same light as an
    unpowered bicycle, simply because it has two wheels.

    All true. Regarding the "somehow" - the crazy legal situation arose, as
    I understand, from intense lobbying by bicycle industry lobbyists. They always need "the next big thing" to save their industry, and they
    realized that if ebikes needed licensing and were prohibited from bike
    lanes and paths, that they would sell far fewer of them.

    And here we are.

    Most lobbyists and companies such as Bosch are very much not in favour of higher power, for the above reasons see UK Government suggesting to
    increase power and EU talking of stricter regulations as DIGI have been
    pushing the limits with 1000watt boosts and so on.

    Aka they will get banned from stuff and so on.

    Roger Merriman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zen Cycle@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Fri May 30 08:25:26 2025
    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.



    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    --
    Add xx to reply

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 08:36:13 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa said. �The >>>> intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even
    if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.



    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Beyond that, the fact that the NYT included that reference in the
    article is documentation that the NYT's sympathies are also with the
    illegals.

    AS for me, I want all the illegals deported, the sooner the better.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rolf Mantel@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 15:16:21 2025
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is >>> totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are >>> enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense. >>
    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing misdemeanors.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri May 30 09:37:53 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa said. �The >>>>>> intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is >>>> totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are >>>> enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are >>>> too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>> if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for >>> a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense. >>>
    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is >>> no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.

    Nonsense. Whether a person is here illegally or not is very easy to
    detirmine and to prove.

    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of >whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing misdemeanors.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rolf Mantel@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 15:58:42 2025
    Am 30.05.2025 um 15:37 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is >>>>> totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are >>>>> enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are >>>>> too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>>> if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for >>>> a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense. >>>>
    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is >>>> no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    So your local head of ICE can claim you're illegal (because you beat him
    in poker) and deport you?

    You're not entitled to due process as per your own declaration.

    Nonsense. Whether a person is here illegally or not is very easy to determine and to prove.

    Your local head of ICE has already put you in a plane so he doesn't have
    to pay his poker debts. Tough luck for you: without due process, his
    decision is final.

    "Due Process" is the legal framework that gives you a chance to prove
    that you're in the USA legally.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of
    whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing misdemeanors.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri May 30 10:05:48 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:58:42 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 15:37 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa said. �The >>>>>>>> intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>>>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is >>>>>> totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are >>>>>> enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are >>>>>> too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>>>> if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for >>>>> a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is >>>>> no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    So your local head of ICE can claim you're illegal (because you beat him
    in poker) and deport you?

    You're not entitled to due process as per your own declaration.

    Nonsense. Whether a person is here illegally or not is very easy to determine and to prove.

    Your local head of ICE has already put you in a plane so he doesn't have
    to pay his poker debts. Tough luck for you: without due process, his >decision is final.

    It's OK with me for you to have that opinion.

    "Due Process" is the legal framework that gives you a chance to prove
    that you're in the USA legally.

    It doesn't take a hearing to establish that. I can do it as I sit here
    on my LAzy Boy.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of >>> whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing misdemeanors.


    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Catrike Ryder on Fri May 30 09:23:05 2025
    On 5/30/2025 7:36 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is >>> totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are >>> enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.



    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense. >>
    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Beyond that, the fact that the NYT included that reference in the
    article is documentation that the NYT's sympathies are also with the illegals.

    AS for me, I want all the illegals deported, the sooner the better.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 The Statute (of long standing) is clear. Illegal aliens
    are subject to summary deportation.

    An argument can be made, and I'd agree, that a finding of
    fact (is this person actually here illegally?) is a
    reasonable precursor. Illegal aliens either previously
    convicted of a crime or subject to a prior deportation order
    are the bulk of the present deportees, which is both morally
    and legally correct IMHO.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Catrike Ryder on Fri May 30 09:29:51 2025
    On 5/30/2025 8:37 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is >>>>> totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are >>>>> enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are >>>>> too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>>> if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for >>>> a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense. >>>>
    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is >>>> no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.

    Nonsense. Whether a person is here illegally or not is very easy to
    detirmine and to prove.

    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of
    whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing misdemeanors.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zen Cycle@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 10:39:17 2025
    Am 30.05.2025 um 15:37 schrieb floriduh dumbass:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa >>>>>>>> said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where >>>>>>>> our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) >>>>>>> are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation
    by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with >>>>>> the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that
    cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet
    people are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and
    ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S.
    ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles,
    even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently
    look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda -
    there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    Yes, you braindead magatard, they are:

    https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2025/05/11/yes-immigrants-in-the-u-s-illegally-still-have-due-process-rights/83481316007/

    "Despite Trump’s dismissal of and questions about due process for
    immigrants, the U.S. Constitution, legal experts and decades of court
    decisions agree: Immigrants in the U.S., regardless of how they entered
    the U.S., legally or illegally, have due process rights."

    Yet another case of the floriduh dumbass parroting magatard groupthink propaganda

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zen Cycle@21:1/5 to Rolf Mantel on Fri May 30 10:41:51 2025
    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. >>>>>> “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are >>>> too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>> if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for >>> a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is >>> no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zen Cycle@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Fri May 30 10:43:01 2025
    On 5/30/2025 10:29 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 8:37 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa >>>>>>>> said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where >>>>>>>> our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) >>>>>>> are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation
    by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with >>>>>> the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that
    cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet
    people are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and
    ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S.
    ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles,
    even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently
    look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda -
    there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.

    Nonsense. Whether a person is here illegally or not is very easy to
    detirmine and to prove.

    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of >>> whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing
    misdemeanors.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1


    bullshit - it's demonstrably false.

    https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2025/05/11/yes-immigrants-in-the-u-s-illegally-still-have-due-process-rights/83481316007/

    "Despite Trump’s dismissal of and questions about due process for
    immigrants, the U.S. Constitution, legal experts and decades of court
    decisions agree: Immigrants in the U.S., regardless of how they entered
    the U.S., legally or illegally, have due process rights."

    --
    Add xx to reply

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 12:06:29 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:39:17 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    Am 30.05.2025 um 15:37 schrieb floriduh dumbass:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>

    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa
    said. �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where >>>>>>>>> our
    communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) >>>>>>>> are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation >>>>>>>> by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger! >>>>>>>
    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with >>>>>>> the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that >>>>>>> cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC >>>>>>> life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet
    people are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and >>>>>>> ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S.
    ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, >>>>>>> even
    if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently
    look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant >>>>>> opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda -
    there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration, >>>> not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    Yes, you braindead magatard, they are:

    https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2025/05/11/yes-immigrants-in-the-u-s-illegally-still-have-due-process-rights/83481316007/

    "Despite Trump�s dismissal of and questions about due process for
    immigrants, the U.S. Constitution, legal experts and decades of court >decisions agree: Immigrants in the U.S., regardless of how they entered
    the U.S., legally or illegally, have due process rights."

    Yet another case of the floriduh dumbass parroting magatard groupthink >propaganda


    No, they don't.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 12:07:05 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa said. >>>>>>> �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people >>>>> are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are >>>>> too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>>> if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for >>>> a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is >>>> no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 12:09:07 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:43:01 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 10:29 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 8:37 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>

    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa
    said. �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where >>>>>>>>> our
    communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) >>>>>>>> are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation >>>>>>>> by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger! >>>>>>>
    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with >>>>>>> the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that >>>>>>> cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC >>>>>>> life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet
    people are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and >>>>>>> ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S.
    ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, >>>>>>> even
    if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently
    look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant >>>>>> opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda -
    there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration, >>>> not only to people legally determined illegal.

    Nonsense. Whether a person is here illegally or not is very easy to
    detirmine and to prove.

    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of >>>> whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing
    misdemeanors.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1


    bullshit - it's demonstrably false.

    https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2025/05/11/yes-immigrants-in-the-u-s-illegally-still-have-due-process-rights/83481316007/

    "Despite Trump�s dismissal of and questions about due process for
    immigrants, the U.S. Constitution, legal experts and decades of court >decisions agree: Immigrants in the U.S., regardless of how they entered
    the U.S., legally or illegally, have due process rights."


    According to some unknown editorial writer, anyway.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 12:17:12 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:32:37 GMT, cyclintom <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Mon May 26 21:17:54 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 1:15 PM, NFN Smith wrote:
    Frank Krygowski wrote:
    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters-cyclists-
    nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share



    Ignoring the political drivel of the story...

    The problem is with classifying ebikes as "bikes" (e.g. 2 wheels) rather >> > than accounting the dynamics of a powered vehicle.

    When it comes to bicycles, it's too easy to consider a traditional bike
    to be a "pedestrian", because it's slower than a motor vehicle, and is
    not powered. However a lot of the time, traditional bikes and
    pedestrians are incompatible sharing the same space.

    I agree. In bike advocacy discussions, I've heard very competent people
    point out that bikes and pedestrians mix badly. It can be OK with
    conscientious cyclists and sensible pedestrians, but both are often absent. >>
    I've found that even
    multi-use paths are frequently not a good place for serious riding,
    because of the speed differential between a bicycle and a pedestrian.

    Yes. I've heard the term "pathlete" applied derisively to bicyclists
    doing speed work on multi-use paths.

    And there's even an in-between space for things like unpowered scooters
    or roller blades that are faster than pedestrians but slower than bikes. >> >
    However, with ebikes (and for that matter, powered scooters) when you
    add powered propulsion, then you're adding an extra measure of speed,
    including that too many ebikes are capable of speeds in excess of what
    is possible than for all but the fastest fitness riders.

    And it's been pointed out that to ride at 20 mph, most people require
    years of training. They start slow and tend to make most of their
    mistakes at slow (less dangerous) speeds. But ebikes allow total novices
    to ride faster than most experts.

    I'm fully of the opinion that any bike should be regarded as a vehicle,
    and generally, ridden on streets, where it's understood by both the
    rider and motorists that the bike is subject to all the rules of the
    road, both rights and responsibilities.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Catrike Ryder on Fri May 30 11:28:19 2025
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. >>>>>>>> “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>>>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people >>>>>> are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are >>>>>> too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>>>> if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for >>>>> a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is >>>>> no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction
    in the past four years.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri May 30 12:30:52 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 12:06:29 -0400, Catrike Ryder
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:39:17 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    Am 30.05.2025 um 15:37 schrieb floriduh dumbass:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>

    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa >>>>>>>>>> said. �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where >>>>>>>>>> our
    communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) >>>>>>>>> are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation >>>>>>>>> by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger! >>>>>>>>
    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with >>>>>>>> the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that >>>>>>>> cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC >>>>>>>> life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet
    people are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and >>>>>>>> ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S.
    ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, >>>>>>>> even
    if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently
    look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant >>>>>>> opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink >>>>>>> nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing >>>>>>> himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda -
    there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her >>>>>> statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals. >>>>>
    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration, >>>>> not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    Yes, you braindead magatard, they are:
    https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2025/05/11/yes-immigrants-in-the-u-s-illegally-still-have-due-process-rights/83481316007/

    "Despite Trump�s dismissal of and questions about due process for >>immigrants, the U.S. Constitution, legal experts and decades of court >>decisions agree: Immigrants in the U.S., regardless of how they entered
    the U.S., legally or illegally, have due process rights."

    Yet another case of the floriduh dumbass parroting magatard groupthink >>propaganda


    No, they don't.

    There's no difference between spotting an illegal trying to swim
    across the Rio Grande and forcing him/her to turn back and finding him
    two or three years later. He/she has to right to due process.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri May 30 13:34:36 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 12:51:55 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 10:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    The Statute (of long standing) is clear. Illegal aliens are subject
    to summary deportation.

    An argument can be made, and I'd agree, that a finding of fact (is this
    person actually here illegally?) is a reasonable precursor.

    Thank you. But obviously, finding of fact has been absent in many cases,
    as noted in the news. Things like photoshopped images of tattoos have
    been used instead of facts.

    Illegal aliens either previously convicted of a crime or subject to a prior >> deportation order are the bulk of the present deportees, which is both
    morally and legally correct IMHO.

    I see some inconsistencies in your thinking. You often dig out uncommon, >unusual events and post links here, seemingly to complain about some >government system or procedure. You don't normally compare those events
    to "the bulk of" similar cases.

    That's from the guy who claimed that because a some people who got
    shot also owned guns, was evidence that owning a gun made it more
    likely to get shot.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zen Cycle@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 14:39:57 2025
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration, >>>> not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    Let's stick your lame ass in a cell in Louisiana for six weeks and see
    if you call it "quickly corrected" you dumb fucking magatard minion.

    Tuft University PhD Rümeysa Öztürk was snatched off the street by masked
    ICE agents in an unmarked van in Cambridge Ma on march 25th. No warrant
    for her arrest was ever issued. She was released from prison in
    Louisiana last week while the government decides if they have a case.
    Gee, that's not fascistic at all..

    Öztürk is legally in the US on an F-1 student visa. What was her great
    threat to american security? She co-authored an article published in the
    Tufts newspaper criticizing the schools policy regarding the war in Gaza.

    A legal US resident jailed for six weeks for publishing an article
    criticizing her school. OH NO!!!!IT'S THE BEGINNING OF SHARIA LAW!!!!

    ICE eventually said she was snatched for supporting Hamas - there is no evidence anywhere supporting that. None of her social media postings
    gave any hints of it, and the article in question made no mention of it.

    And all we get from you fascist supporting assholes is a fucking shrug,
    or in your case, tipping back a cognac with a chuckle. I hope it happens
    to someone in your family ("oh, it won't we're all good little magatard fascists)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zen Cycle@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Fri May 30 14:43:55 2025
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>

    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. >>>>>>>>> “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation
    where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot
    vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation >>>>>>>> by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger! >>>>>>>
    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals
    with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that >>>>>>> cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC >>>>>>> life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people >>>>>>> are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and >>>>>>> ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S.
    ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, >>>>>>> even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently
    look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant >>>>>> opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda -
    there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal
    aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration, >>>> not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction in the past
    four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great Replacement' theory.

    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive of blatantly
    white christian nationalist fascism. Gee Andrew, who's going to be there
    when they come for you?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 15:04:53 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 14:39:57 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration, >>>>> not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    Let's stick your lame ass in a cell in Louisiana for six weeks and see
    if you call it "quickly corrected" you dumb fucking magatard minion.

    Tuft University PhD R�meysa �zt�rk was snatched off the street by masked
    ICE agents in an unmarked van in Cambridge Ma on march 25th. No warrant
    for her arrest was ever issued. She was released from prison in
    Louisiana last week while the government decides if they have a case.
    Gee, that's not fascistic at all..

    �zt�rk is legally in the US on an F-1 student visa. What was her great
    threat to american security? She co-authored an article published in the >Tufts newspaper criticizing the schools policy regarding the war in Gaza.

    A legal US resident jailed for six weeks for publishing an article >criticizing her school. OH NO!!!!IT'S THE BEGINNING OF SHARIA LAW!!!!

    ICE eventually said she was snatched for supporting Hamas - there is no >evidence anywhere supporting that. None of her social media postings
    gave any hints of it, and the article in question made no mention of it.

    And all we get from you fascist supporting assholes is a fucking shrug,
    or in your case, tipping back a cognac with a chuckle. I hope it happens
    to someone in your family ("oh, it won't we're all good little magatard >fascists)



    She got a leftist judge's decision, but she still faces deportation.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 15:11:52 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 14:43:55 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>

    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa said. >>>>>>>>>> �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation >>>>>>>>>> where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot
    vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation >>>>>>>>> by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger! >>>>>>>>
    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals
    with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that >>>>>>>> cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC >>>>>>>> life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people >>>>>>>> are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and >>>>>>>> ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S.
    ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, >>>>>>>> even
    if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently
    look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant >>>>>>> opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink >>>>>>> nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing >>>>>>> himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda -
    there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal
    aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her >>>>>> statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals. >>>>>
    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration, >>>>> not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction in the past
    four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great Replacement' theory.

    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive of blatantly
    white christian nationalist fascism. Gee Andrew, who's going to be there
    when they come for you?

    I think Mr Muzi said he was agnostic. I am also an agnostic and I know
    that's different from being an atheist.

    As for "blatantly white christian nationalist fascism," that just a
    leftist talking point that has no relationship with reality. The
    problem is that some people believe whatever their masters tell them
    to believe.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Zen Cycle on Fri May 30 16:36:44 2025
    On 5/30/2025 1:43 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on
    ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people
    past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/
    ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>

    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,”
    Ms. Guallpa said.
    “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a
    situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people
    who cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal
    aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary
    deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on
    hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only
    about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The
    rest deals with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement
    policies, noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even
    mention that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car
    traffic. Yet people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of
    ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly
    than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I
    think U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like
    motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike
    paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief
    mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing
    dog whistles, even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will
    consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based
    their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard
    groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently
    is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink
    propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal
    illegal aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA
    illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with
    the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the
    administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people
    illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented
    detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction
    in the past four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great Replacement'
    theory.

    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive of
    blatantly white christian nationalist fascism. Gee Andrew,
    who's going to be there when they come for you?


    I have no idea what you're raving about.

    Go find a blatant white Christian nationalist fascist who's
    expounding some 'replacement theory' and give her a piece of
    your mind.

    Even SCOTUS agrees that open borders as fiat policy is unlawful:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court-immigration-deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905



    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John B.@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri May 30 18:10:11 2025
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:58:42 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 15:37 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share


    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa said. �The >>>>>>>> intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>>>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is >>>>>> totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are >>>>>> enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are >>>>>> too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>>>> if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for >>>>> a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is >>>>> no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    So your local head of ICE can claim you're illegal (because you beat him
    in poker) and deport you?

    You're not entitled to due process as per your own declaration.

    Nonsense. Whether a person is here illegally or not is very easy to determine and to prove.

    Your local head of ICE has already put you in a plane so he doesn't have
    to pay his poker debts. Tough luck for you: without due process, his >decision is final.

    "Due Process" is the legal framework that gives you a chance to prove
    that you're in the USA legally.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of >>> whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing misdemeanors.


    It's years since I had anything to do with the Immigration people but
    back then a legal Immigrant was issued a "green card"
    . No card then illegal.
    --
    cheers,

    John B.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From zen cycle@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Sat May 31 08:57:16 2025
    On 5/30/2025 5:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 1:43 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>>

    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa >>>>>>>>>>> said.
    “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation >>>>>>>>>>> where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot >>>>>>>>>> vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary
    deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger! >>>>>>>>>
    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals >>>>>>>>> with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting >>>>>>>>> that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC >>>>>>>>> life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet >>>>>>>>> people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, >>>>>>>>> and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car
    drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. >>>>>>>>> ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of >>>>>>>>> immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog
    whistles, even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently >>>>>>>> look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant >>>>>>>> opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink >>>>>>>> nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing >>>>>>>> himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - >>>>>>>> there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal
    aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her >>>>>>> statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals. >>>>>>
    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the
    administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction in the
    past four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great Replacement' theory.

    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive of blatantly
    white christian nationalist fascism. Gee Andrew, who's going to be
    there when they come for you?


    I have no idea what you're raving about.

    yes you do, you're just unwilling to admit it.


    Go find a blatant white Christian nationalist fascist who's expounding
    some 'replacement theory' and give her a piece of your mind.

    Just for everyone else's edification who might be ignorant:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-twisted-logic-behind-the-rights-great-replacement-arguments/

    Don't try to feign ignorance Andrew, you're far too well-read and aware
    for me to buy that bullshit.


    Even SCOTUS agrees that open borders as fiat policy is unlawful:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court-immigration- deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    WTF? Are you taking kunich lessons now? You changed the subject then
    posted a link which doesn't support your claim.

    1) we weren't discussing open borders, we were discussing due process
    for deportation of illegal immigrants.

    2) your website doesn't address open borders, it addresses revoking
    _legal_ status for asylum seekers. The first sentence states:

    "The Supreme Court on Friday again cleared the way for the Trump
    administration to strip temporary legal protections from hundreds of
    thousands of immigrants".

    Regardless of your attempted distraction, the premise floated in this
    forum by the floriduh dumbass that illegal aliens have no due process protection is flat out wrong.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-5/removal-of-aliens-who-have-entered-the-united-states
    "Despite the government’s broad power over immigration, the Supreme
    Court has recognized that aliens who have physically entered the United
    States generally come under the protective scope of the Due Process
    Clause, which applies “to all ‘persons’ within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful,
    temporary, or permanent.”"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat May 31 09:28:31 2025
    On Sat, 31 May 2025 08:57:16 -0400, zen cycle
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 5:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 1:43 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>>>

    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa >>>>>>>>>>>> said.
    �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation >>>>>>>>>>>> where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot >>>>>>>>>>> vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary
    deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger! >>>>>>>>>>
    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals >>>>>>>>>> with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting >>>>>>>>>> that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC >>>>>>>>>> life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet >>>>>>>>>> people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, >>>>>>>>>> and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car >>>>>>>>>> drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. >>>>>>>>>> ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of >>>>>>>>>> immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog
    whistles, even
    if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently >>>>>>>>> look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant >>>>>>>>> opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink >>>>>>>>> nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing >>>>>>>>> himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - >>>>>>>>> there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal
    aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her >>>>>>>> statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals. >>>>>>>
    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the
    administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and >>>>>> attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction in the
    past four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great Replacement' theory.

    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive of blatantly
    white christian nationalist fascism. Gee Andrew, who's going to be
    there when they come for you?


    I have no idea what you're raving about.

    yes you do, you're just unwilling to admit it.


    Go find a blatant white Christian nationalist fascist who's expounding
    some 'replacement theory' and give her a piece of your mind.

    Just for everyone else's edification who might be ignorant:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-twisted-logic-behind-the-rights-great-replacement-arguments/

    Don't try to feign ignorance Andrew, you're far too well-read and aware
    for me to buy that bullshit.


    Even SCOTUS agrees that open borders as fiat policy is unlawful:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court-immigration-
    deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    WTF? Are you taking kunich lessons now? You changed the subject then
    posted a link which doesn't support your claim.

    1) we weren't discussing open borders, we were discussing due process
    for deportation of illegal immigrants.

    2) your website doesn't address open borders, it addresses revoking
    _legal_ status for asylum seekers. The first sentence states:

    "The Supreme Court on Friday again cleared the way for the Trump >administration to strip temporary legal protections from hundreds of >thousands of immigrants".

    Regardless of your attempted distraction, the premise floated in this
    forum by the floriduh dumbass that illegal aliens have no due process >protection is flat out wrong.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-5/removal-of-aliens-who-have-entered-the-united-states
    "Despite the government�s broad power over immigration, the Supreme
    Court has recognized that aliens who have physically entered the United >States generally come under the protective scope of the Due Process
    Clause, which applies �to all �persons� within the United States,
    including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful,
    temporary, or permanent.�"


    From Junior's cite:

    "The Supreme Court�s jurisprudence indicates that, although aliens
    present within the United States generally have due process
    protections, the extent of those constitutional protections may depend
    on certain factors, including whether the alien has been lawfully
    admitted"

    By the way... Didn't someone recently complain about politics in RBT?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to zen cycle on Sat May 31 11:15:17 2025
    On 5/31/2025 7:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 5:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 1:43 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down
    on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people
    past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/
    ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>>>

    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,”
    Ms. Guallpa said.
    “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a
    situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people
    who cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal
    aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to
    summary deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always
    on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those,
    only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The
    rest deals with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement
    policies, noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even
    mention that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car
    traffic. Yet people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects
    of ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly
    than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I
    think U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more
    like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike
    paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief
    mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right
    wing dog whistles, even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will
    consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based
    their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of
    magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more
    recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink
    propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal
    illegal aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA
    illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are
    with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by
    the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people
    illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented
    detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other
    direction in the past four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great
    Replacement' theory.

    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive
    of blatantly white christian nationalist fascism. Gee
    Andrew, who's going to be there when they come for you?


    I have no idea what you're raving about.

    yes you do, you're just unwilling to admit it.


    Go find a blatant white Christian nationalist fascist
    who's expounding some 'replacement theory' and give her a
    piece of your mind.

    Just for everyone else's edification who might be ignorant:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-twisted-logic- behind-the-rights-great-replacement-arguments/

    Don't try to feign ignorance Andrew, you're far too well-
    read and aware for me to buy that bullshit.


    Even SCOTUS agrees that open borders as fiat policy is
    unlawful:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court-
    immigration- deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    WTF? Are you taking kunich lessons now? You changed the
    subject then posted a link which doesn't support your claim.

    1) we weren't discussing open borders, we were discussing
    due process for deportation of illegal immigrants.

    2) your website doesn't address open borders, it addresses
    revoking _legal_ status for asylum seekers. The first
    sentence states:

    "The Supreme Court on Friday again cleared the way for the
    Trump administration to strip temporary legal protections
    from hundreds of thousands of immigrants".

    Regardless of your attempted distraction, the premise
    floated in this forum by the floriduh dumbass that illegal
    aliens have no due process protection is flat out wrong.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-5/ removal-of-aliens-who-have-entered-the-united-states
    "Despite the government’s broad power over immigration, the
    Supreme Court has recognized that aliens who have physically
    entered the United States generally come under the
    protective scope of the Due Process Clause, which applies
    “to all ‘persons’ within the United States, including
    aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful,
    temporary, or permanent.”"




    My link is germane because making up a fictional legal
    status is a purposeful attempt to thwart the actual Statute.

    Regarding rights, US citizens enjoy full Constitutional
    rights including full due process. We proudly keep to that
    standard even when it perverts justice. And that's a good
    thing overall. We haven't changed it for good reasons.

    Franklin:
    “That it is better one hundred guilty persons should escape
    than that one innocent person should suffer is a maxim that
    has been long and generally approved.”

    Resident Legal Aliens have limited rights and their status
    can be revoked. RAs do have significant process rights in
    that event. More than merely not enjoying the franchise, RAs
    are importantly not citizens. Unlike our new fellow citizens
    who completed the naturalization process, Resident Aliens
    have not sworn loyalty to the nation and the nation in turn
    may revoke that status, but not summarily. RAs have rights,
    but more limited than citizens' rights.

    Temporary visa holders are different again. These include
    people permitted entry for tourism or business,
    student/educator, seasonal work, specialty skill employment
    and more. All of those may be revoked much more easily than
    Resident Alien status by the Secretary of State or his
    agent, _"at his or her discretion"_:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/41.122

    Illegal entry is a crime. Those in the country illegally are
    subject to summary deportation.

    Anything above unpleasant to you may be changed by Statute.
    Write your Congressman with your ideas.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to NFN Smith on Sat May 31 20:53:06 2025
    NFN Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    There's some good nuance here, important stuff that's often easy to lose
    in public debate.

    Roger Merriman wrote:
    Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 1:15 PM, NFN Smith wrote:
    Frank Krygowski wrote:


    Very much depends on the location and situation, the park paths and so on, >> I use for the commute differ to the cycleway I use which has occasional
    foot traffic, to the newer cycle infrastructure.

    In terms of expectations and speed etc wildly varying.

    Very true. For where you are, it appears to be an urban environment, and where there's a lot of commuting traffic. That's different for where I
    am, where it's a mix of suburban and rural. We're in almost entirely
    flat spaces and very straight roads that are spaced exactly one mile a
    part, in both directions. When you get closer in to urbanized density,
    most roads are 2 lanes in each direction (often 3, for newer roads), and where there's a dedicated 2-way left turn lane in the center, and
    usually a traffic speed limit of 45 MPH. Further out, the roads narrow,
    and are not much more than farm roads -- one lane in each direction,
    soft, graveled shoulder, and not much more maintenance than road crews dropping some hot asphalt (about once a year) into places that potholes
    have developed, and speed limits of only 25 MPH.

    London so urban to Suburban, I’m outer london so mainly suburban, lower
    speed limits 20mph is common, almost certainly and reasonably chance of it being enforced aka speed cameras.

    We also have several canals (including one right next to my house) that
    have dedicated multi-use paths on one side of the canal. These are more
    or less municipal paths, and very much a magnet for recreational use,
    ranging from simple pedestrians to serious cyclists. On the other side
    of the canal (at least in the space near my house) what's there is essentially a service road that is owned by the water utility that
    operates the canal. In some places, the service road is paved (and also suitable for cycling, as it's even wider than the multi-use path), but
    only a mile in either direction, the surface is gravel.


    Those are lovely places but not particularly useful for utility purposes as they are narrow and is limited as to how many can useful use such places.

    For the multi-use path, I termed as "mostly" municipal, and that
    reflects the governing philosophy of the town I live in. The town tends
    to be tax-phobic, and as a result there are a lot of things that other
    towns or cities would pay for that they outsource to private entities.
    For roads (as noted above), one of the common effects is "scalloping",
    where the town doesn't do any serious infrastructure investments.
    Instead, they wait for an agricultural plot (typically an alfalfa field)
    to be converted to a housing subdivision, and then make the developer
    pay for all the improvements in the space directly facing the
    subdivision, but nothing more. Development is often uneven, and as a
    result, it's frequent to have a road that is improved with good
    pavement, space for at least 2 lanes of traffic in one direction and
    space for the common left turn lane, plus curb, gutter and sidewalk on
    one side for the quarter mile that faces the subdivision, which turns
    back to farm road when the edge(s) of the subdivision are reached, and
    farm road on the other side of the road.

    The handling of the multi-use paths are similar. For the path near my
    house, I think it's pretty much completed for the entire length of the
    canal. In neighboring cities, the path was done by the relevant
    governments, but in my town, where most of the construction is
    subdivisions, the town outsourced construction. In the space near my
    house, for some reason, the part of the path was put on neighborhood property, and where maintenance belongs to the homeowner's association, rather than being put on the right-of-way that belongs to the water company.

    About a mile further up, the path was still unimproved (gravel only)
    until an apartment complex was built next to it. When that happened,
    it's pretty obvious that the developer did the required improvements by hiring a contractor that normally does sidewalks, and for the quarter
    mile in front of that complex, the surface is essentially a sidewalk.
    Good, solid concrete, but seams 10 or 12 feet apart, and not really wide enough for two bicycles to ride abreast. It's tricky to pass when there
    are bikes coming from opposite directions.

    For the path near my house, maintenance by the homeowner's association
    is something of an issue, because it's in a place not seen (or used) by
    a lot of the residents, and there is something of an "out of sight, out
    of mind" attitude. The layout is where the path is lower than the space
    next to it (deliberately), and takes a lot of runoff -- thus, problems
    with puddles that turn to silt, and infrequent sweeping. Plus, the neighborhood has aged enough that there are some number of trees nearby
    that have root systems that cause buckles in the surface. Not
    necessarily a problem for bicycles with large wheels and soft tires, but definitely an issue for things like skates and scooters. Because the
    path is on neighborhood property, it's the neighborhood's responsibility
    to maintain.

    I reported the issue with uneven surface to the homeowners' association management, and it took a little bit to establish with the current
    manager that despite the public right-of-way, the path is on
    neighborhood property, and not the responsibility of the city, even if
    it's a publicly-accessible thoroughfare. In the process, they
    discovered that the condition of the path was also in violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act. The neighborhood wasn't happy about
    putting out nearly $25,000 for repairs, but it is a legal requirement.
    It's also not an abstraction, as there's another neighborhood a few
    miles away, where there are outstanding claims of $3.1 million following
    a crash by a teenager on a similar surface (with buckles) on a motorized scooter. I don't remember if the claims are against the neighborhood
    (and their insurance) or against the town. However, what our
    neighborhood paid in preventative repairs was a small fraction of what
    is being claimed on the other crash.


    I’d again say you get what you design for.

    That's really the crux of the issue -- there are multiple design
    agendas, and they're sometimes in conflict with each other. It doesn't
    help when the people who make decisions aren't the the actual users, and often, where they're projecting their own stereotypes, based on either minimal personal experience, or the more abstract objectives of urban planning, where there's a lot of "what should be" or what is envisioned, rather than what actually is.


    I've found that even
    multi-use paths are frequently not a good place for serious riding,
    because of the speed differential between a bicycle and a pedestrian.

    Yes. I've heard the term "pathlete" applied derisively to bicyclists
    doing speed work on multi-use paths.

    An interesting term.


    I’ve not really noticed that, but UK and London is lot more accessible for >> bicycling than the US, more some runners who are using somewhat
    inappropriate places, or times of day etc.

    I can imagine. I've spent time in London, although only as a tourist,
    and not really seeing how bicycles fit into the landscape.


    And there's even an in-between space for things like unpowered scooters >>>> or roller blades that are faster than pedestrians but slower than bikes. >>>>
    However, with ebikes (and for that matter, powered scooters) when you
    add powered propulsion, then you're adding an extra measure of speed,
    including that too many ebikes are capable of speeds in excess of what >>>> is possible than for all but the fastest fitness riders.

    And it's been pointed out that to ride at 20 mph, most people require
    years of training. They start slow and tend to make most of their
    mistakes at slow (less dangerous) speeds. But ebikes allow total novices >>> to ride faster than most experts.

    This I’d and UK law would class as a moped and should be considered as
    such, at that point particularly with a throttle! It fails the does it walk >> and talk like a duck? Which the pedal assist 15mph cut off do.

    I think that's the critical point. Although there's a measure of
    difference between a traditional human-powered bicycle and pedal assist bikes, the real problem is with the fully motorized bikes. Throttle is a
    good differentiator, but it's also the question of both max speed and sustained speed, and entirely incompatible with foot-based pedestrians
    and vehicles whose speed is less than 5 MPH.


    I'm fully of the opinion that any bike should be regarded as a vehicle, >>>> and generally, ridden on streets, where it's understood by both the
    rider and motorists that the bike is subject to all the rules of the
    road, both rights and responsibilities.  Yet at the same time, I
    recognize there are combinations of road and bike (and rider) that are >>>> incompatible with each other.  It's not unlike trying to drive a Ferrari >>>> in a school zone, or taking an antique Model-T Ford out onto a freeway. >>>>
    However, the issue with the ebikes is the question of speed, as well as >>>> the understanding of the rules of the road.  With a motorcycle, it's
    normally necessary to have licensing, both for the bike and the
    operator. Somehow, it seems to have not occurred that just because the >>>> propulsion system of an ebike is electrical rather than an internal
    combustion engine that the ebike should not be subject to the same rules >>>> as the motorcycle, rather than being regarded in the same light as an
    unpowered bicycle, simply because it has two wheels.

    All true. Regarding the "somehow" - the crazy legal situation arose, as
    I understand, from intense lobbying by bicycle industry lobbyists. They
    always need "the next big thing" to save their industry, and they
    realized that if ebikes needed licensing and were prohibited from bike
    lanes and paths, that they would sell far fewer of them.

    True, but it's also new technologies moving into areas where there's no
    legal and philosophical underpinnings of how they should interact with
    the world around them. And where the promoters of those technologies
    have a vested interest in filling the gaps with their products, and
    hopefully (at least for them) that they generate enough demand for their products that by the time that the legal process catches up, they can
    object with "it's obvious that we're filling a need, you can't put legal restrictions on us!" Even if the biggest need being met is not
    necessarily customer demand, but maintaining their revenue streams.

    We had that happen several year ago, when there was a big outbreak of
    the pay-by-the-minute motorized scooters that were all over town, not
    just in the central part of town, or along major thoroughfares, but even
    in neighborhoods further away, where users simply abandoned them
    wherever they were when they were no longer needed. There were several
    that ended up near my house, and I was tempted to take one or two of
    those scooters and throw into the canal.

    As it turns out, when the question came up with town governance, the
    scooters weren't totally banned, but there were enough operating
    restrictions put on them that they pretty much disappeared, even if
    there are a small number in one high-density part of town.


    And here we are.

    Most lobbyists and companies such as Bosch are very much not in favour of
    higher power, for the above reasons see UK Government suggesting to
    increase power and EU talking of stricter regulations as DIGI have been
    pushing the limits with 1000watt boosts and so on.

    Aka they will get banned from stuff and so on.

    Yep. See above.

    Thanks for further opportunity to think out loud.

    Smith


    Roger Merriman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to NFN Smith on Sun Jun 1 10:04:33 2025
    NFN Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    Roger Merriman wrote:


    London so urban to Suburban, I’m outer london so mainly suburban, lower
    speed limits 20mph is common, almost certainly and reasonably chance of it >> being enforced aka speed cameras.

    Just curious -- are you inside or outside of the M25?

    Inside M25 tends to be line in the sand for if it’s London or not, are few places it passes through what is considered london but in general it’s the
    de facto border.

    So some 40/50 miles across depending on where as it’s not a perfect ring by any means!


    We also have several canals (including one right next to my house) that
    have dedicated multi-use paths on one side of the canal. These are more >>> or less municipal paths, and very much a magnet for recreational use,
    ranging from simple pedestrians to serious cyclists. On the other side
    of the canal (at least in the space near my house) what's there is
    essentially a service road that is owned by the water utility that
    operates the canal. In some places, the service road is paved (and also
    suitable for cycling, as it's even wider than the multi-use path), but
    only a mile in either direction, the surface is gravel.


    Those are lovely places but not particularly useful for utility purposes as >> they are narrow and is limited as to how many can useful use such places.

    Besides passing visual similarities, the two are entirely different situations.

    In Europe, I think that most canals tend to be done to facilitate
    drainage, especially working around population density. Where I am, the
    space is flat and very spread out. Our canal system was actually built several hundred years before the first European or Euro-American
    settlers. The Europeans modified somewhat with more modern engineering,
    but for both, the intent of the canals is to move water from the river
    system into places that it can be used for agricultural irrigation.

    No European Canals where for transportation of industrial materials had
    fairly brief moment in history before the railways arrived, hence the tow
    paths for horses.

    Are places where you get irrigation and drainage such as the fens where
    they have drained the swamp as you where, but they aren’t the normal use
    for canals which are transporting materials and goods. Are still some in
    use like the ship canal between Liverpool and Manchester.

    Smith


    Roger Merriman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From zen cycle@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Sun Jun 1 07:32:47 2025
    On 5/31/2025 12:15 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/31/2025 7:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 5:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 1:43 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike >>>>>>>>>>>>>> traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa >>>>>>>>>>>>> said.
    “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation >>>>>>>>>>>>> where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot >>>>>>>>>>>> vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens >>>>>>>>>>>> who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary
    deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair >>>>>>>>>>> trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals >>>>>>>>>>> with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting >>>>>>>>>>> that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC >>>>>>>>>>> life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet >>>>>>>>>>> people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, >>>>>>>>>>> and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car >>>>>>>>>>> drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. >>>>>>>>>>> ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like
    motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths. >>>>>>>>>>>
    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of >>>>>>>>>>> immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog
    whistles, even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will
    consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their
    ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink >>>>>>>>>> nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing >>>>>>>>>> himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda >>>>>>>>>> - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal
    aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her >>>>>>>>> statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the
    illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the
    administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and >>>>>>>> attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and >>>>>>> attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction in the
    past four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great Replacement' theory.

    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive of
    blatantly white christian nationalist fascism. Gee Andrew, who's
    going to be there when they come for you?


    I have no idea what you're raving about.

    yes you do, you're just unwilling to admit it.


    Go find a blatant white Christian nationalist fascist who's
    expounding some 'replacement theory' and give her a piece of your mind.

    Just for everyone else's edification who might be ignorant:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-twisted-logic- behind-the-
    rights-great-replacement-arguments/

    Don't try to feign ignorance Andrew, you're far too well- read and
    aware for me to buy that bullshit.


    Even SCOTUS agrees that open borders as fiat policy is unlawful:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court- immigration-
    deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    WTF? Are you taking kunich lessons now? You changed the subject then
    posted a link which doesn't support your claim.

    1) we weren't discussing open borders, we were discussing due process
    for deportation of illegal immigrants.

    2) your website doesn't address open borders, it addresses revoking
    _legal_ status for asylum seekers. The first sentence states:

    "The Supreme Court on Friday again cleared the way for the Trump
    administration to strip temporary legal protections from hundreds of
    thousands of immigrants".

    Regardless of your attempted distraction, the premise floated in this
    forum by the floriduh dumbass that illegal aliens have no due process
    protection is flat out wrong.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-5/ removal-
    of-aliens-who-have-entered-the-united-states
    "Despite the government’s broad power over immigration, the Supreme
    Court has recognized that aliens who have physically entered the
    United States generally come under the protective scope of the Due
    Process Clause, which applies “to all ‘persons’ within the United
    States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful,
    unlawful, temporary, or permanent.”"




    My link is germane because making up a fictional legal status is a
    purposeful attempt to thwart the actual Statute.

    What "fictional" legal status? The only fiction being promoted here is
    the dumbasses claim that illegal aliens have no due process rights.


    Regarding rights, US citizens enjoy full Constitutional rights including
    full due process. We proudly keep to that standard even when it perverts justice. And that's a good thing overall. We haven't changed it for good reasons.

    Franklin:
    “That it is better one hundred guilty persons should escape than that
    one innocent person should suffer is a maxim that has been long and
    generally approved.”

    Resident Legal Aliens have limited rights and their status can be
    revoked. RAs do have significant process rights in that event. More than merely not enjoying the franchise, RAs are importantly not citizens.
    Unlike our new fellow citizens who completed the naturalization process, Resident Aliens have not sworn loyalty to the nation and the nation in
    turn may revoke that status, but not summarily.  RAs have rights, but
    more limited than citizens' rights.

    Temporary visa holders are different again. These include people
    permitted entry for tourism or business, student/educator, seasonal
    work, specialty skill employment and more.  All of those may be revoked
    much more easily than Resident Alien status by the Secretary of State or
    his agent, _"at his or her discretion"_:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/41.122

    Illegal entry is a crime. Those in the country illegally are subject to summary deportation.

    Let me see if I can make this so simple that even you understand it:

    ILLEGAL ALIENS HAVE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS.

    Does that make it more clear?


    Anything above unpleasant to you may be changed by Statute. Write your Congressman with your ideas.


    The unpleasantness is the magatard's constant demonstrably false
    declaration that illegal aliens have no due process rights. Everything
    you've written above is true, the issue is that you're purposely
    avoiding the due process issue.

    You may find due process afforded to illegal aliens to be unpleasant,
    but that is protected by statute, and as such may be changed by statute.
    Write your congressperson about your ideas.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jun 1 08:11:02 2025
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 07:32:47 -0400, zen cycle
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 5/31/2025 12:15 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/31/2025 7:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 5:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 1:43 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> said.
    �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens >>>>>>>>>>>>> who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary
    deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair >>>>>>>>>>>> trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals >>>>>>>>>>>> with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting >>>>>>>>>>>> that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC >>>>>>>>>>>> life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet >>>>>>>>>>>> people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, >>>>>>>>>>>> and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car >>>>>>>>>>>> drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. >>>>>>>>>>>> ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like
    motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of >>>>>>>>>>>> immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog >>>>>>>>>>>> whistles, even
    if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will
    consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their >>>>>>>>>>> ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink >>>>>>>>>>> nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing >>>>>>>>>>> himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda >>>>>>>>>>> - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal >>>>>>>>>>> aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her >>>>>>>>>> statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the >>>>>>>>>> illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the
    administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and >>>>>>>>> attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and >>>>>>>> attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction in the
    past four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great Replacement' theory.

    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive of
    blatantly white christian nationalist fascism. Gee Andrew, who's
    going to be there when they come for you?


    I have no idea what you're raving about.

    yes you do, you're just unwilling to admit it.


    Go find a blatant white Christian nationalist fascist who's
    expounding some 'replacement theory' and give her a piece of your mind. >>>
    Just for everyone else's edification who might be ignorant:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-twisted-logic- behind-the-
    rights-great-replacement-arguments/

    Don't try to feign ignorance Andrew, you're far too well- read and
    aware for me to buy that bullshit.


    Even SCOTUS agrees that open borders as fiat policy is unlawful:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court- immigration-
    deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    WTF? Are you taking kunich lessons now? You changed the subject then
    posted a link which doesn't support your claim.

    1) we weren't discussing open borders, we were discussing due process
    for deportation of illegal immigrants.

    2) your website doesn't address open borders, it addresses revoking
    _legal_ status for asylum seekers. The first sentence states:

    "The Supreme Court on Friday again cleared the way for the Trump
    administration to strip temporary legal protections from hundreds of
    thousands of immigrants".

    Regardless of your attempted distraction, the premise floated in this
    forum by the floriduh dumbass that illegal aliens have no due process
    protection is flat out wrong.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-5/ removal-
    of-aliens-who-have-entered-the-united-states
    "Despite the government�s broad power over immigration, the Supreme
    Court has recognized that aliens who have physically entered the
    United States generally come under the protective scope of the Due
    Process Clause, which applies �to all �persons� within the United
    States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful,
    unlawful, temporary, or permanent.�"




    My link is germane because making up a fictional legal status is a
    purposeful attempt to thwart the actual Statute.

    What "fictional" legal status? The only fiction being promoted here is
    the dumbasses claim that illegal aliens have no due process rights.


    Regarding rights, US citizens enjoy full Constitutional rights including
    full due process. We proudly keep to that standard even when it perverts
    justice. And that's a good thing overall. We haven't changed it for good
    reasons.

    Franklin:
    �That it is better one hundred guilty persons should escape than that
    one innocent person should suffer is a maxim that has been long and
    generally approved.�

    Resident Legal Aliens have limited rights and their status can be
    revoked. RAs do have significant process rights in that event. More than
    merely not enjoying the franchise, RAs are importantly not citizens.
    Unlike our new fellow citizens who completed the naturalization process,
    Resident Aliens have not sworn loyalty to the nation and the nation in
    turn may revoke that status, but not summarily.� RAs have rights, but
    more limited than citizens' rights.

    Temporary visa holders are different again. These include people
    permitted entry for tourism or business, student/educator, seasonal
    work, specialty skill employment and more.� All of those may be revoked
    much more easily than Resident Alien status by the Secretary of State or
    his agent, _"at his or her discretion"_:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/41.122

    Illegal entry is a crime. Those in the country illegally are subject to
    summary deportation.

    Let me see if I can make this so simple that even you understand it:

    ILLEGAL ALIENS HAVE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS.

    Does that make it more clear?


    Anything above unpleasant to you may be changed by Statute. Write your
    Congressman with your ideas.


    The unpleasantness is the magatard's constant demonstrably false
    declaration that illegal aliens have no due process rights. Everything
    you've written above is true, the issue is that you're purposely
    avoiding the due process issue.

    You may find due process afforded to illegal aliens to be unpleasant,
    but that is protected by statute, and as such may be changed by statute. >Write your congressperson about your ideas.

    The cite JUnior posted said that they are limited according to their
    legal status.

    From Junior's cite:

    "The Supreme Court�s jurisprudence indicates that, although aliens
    present within the United States generally have due process
    protections, the extent of those constitutional protections may depend
    on certain factors, including whether the alien has been lawfully
    admitted"

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to zen cycle on Sun Jun 1 09:28:49 2025
    On 6/1/2025 6:32 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 5/31/2025 12:15 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/31/2025 7:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 5:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 1:43 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank
    Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking
    down on ebike traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people
    past the paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/
    ebikes-scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    “This is a direct attack on immigrant
    workers,” Ms. Guallpa said.
    “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create
    a situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working
    people who cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal
    illegal aliens who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to
    summary deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always
    on hair trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those,
    only about three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers.
    The rest deals with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement
    policies, noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even
    mention that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car
    traffic. Yet people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule
    effects of ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more
    harshly than car drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally.
    I think U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more
    like motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off
    bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the
    brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right
    wing dog whistles, even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass
    will consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have
    based their ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of
    magatard groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more
    recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard
    groupthink propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal
    illegal aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the
    USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are
    with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by
    the administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people
    illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented
    detentions and
    attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other
    direction in the past four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great
    Replacement' theory.

    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be
    supportive of blatantly white christian nationalist
    fascism. Gee Andrew, who's going to be there when they
    come for you?


    I have no idea what you're raving about.

    yes you do, you're just unwilling to admit it.


    Go find a blatant white Christian nationalist fascist
    who's expounding some 'replacement theory' and give her
    a piece of your mind.

    Just for everyone else's edification who might be ignorant:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-twisted-logic-
    behind-the- rights-great-replacement-arguments/

    Don't try to feign ignorance Andrew, you're far too well-
    read and aware for me to buy that bullshit.


    Even SCOTUS agrees that open borders as fiat policy is
    unlawful:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court-
    immigration- deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    WTF? Are you taking kunich lessons now? You changed the
    subject then posted a link which doesn't support your claim.

    1) we weren't discussing open borders, we were discussing
    due process for deportation of illegal immigrants.

    2) your website doesn't address open borders, it
    addresses revoking _legal_ status for asylum seekers. The
    first sentence states:

    "The Supreme Court on Friday again cleared the way for
    the Trump administration to strip temporary legal
    protections from hundreds of thousands of immigrants".

    Regardless of your attempted distraction, the premise
    floated in this forum by the floriduh dumbass that
    illegal aliens have no due process protection is flat out
    wrong.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/
    amendment-5/ removal- of-aliens-who-have-entered-the-
    united-states
    "Despite the government’s broad power over immigration,
    the Supreme Court has recognized that aliens who have
    physically entered the United States generally come under
    the protective scope of the Due Process Clause, which
    applies “to all ‘persons’ within the United States,
    including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful,
    unlawful, temporary, or permanent.”"




    My link is germane because making up a fictional legal
    status is a purposeful attempt to thwart the actual Statute.

    What "fictional" legal status? The only fiction being
    promoted here is the dumbasses claim that illegal aliens
    have no due process rights.


    Regarding rights, US citizens enjoy full Constitutional
    rights including full due process. We proudly keep to that
    standard even when it perverts justice. And that's a good
    thing overall. We haven't changed it for good reasons.

    Franklin:
    “That it is better one hundred guilty persons should
    escape than that one innocent person should suffer is a
    maxim that has been long and generally approved.”

    Resident Legal Aliens have limited rights and their status
    can be revoked. RAs do have significant process rights in
    that event. More than merely not enjoying the franchise,
    RAs are importantly not citizens. Unlike our new fellow
    citizens who completed the naturalization process,
    Resident Aliens have not sworn loyalty to the nation and
    the nation in turn may revoke that status, but not
    summarily.  RAs have rights, but more limited than
    citizens' rights.

    Temporary visa holders are different again. These include
    people permitted entry for tourism or business, student/
    educator, seasonal work, specialty skill employment and
    more.  All of those may be revoked much more easily than
    Resident Alien status by the Secretary of State or his
    agent, _"at his or her discretion"_:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/41.122

    Illegal entry is a crime. Those in the country illegally
    are subject to summary deportation.

    Let me see if I can make this so simple that even you
    understand it:

    ILLEGAL ALIENS HAVE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS.

    Does that make it more clear?


    Anything above unpleasant to you may be changed by
    Statute. Write your Congressman with your ideas.


    The unpleasantness is the magatard's constant demonstrably
    false declaration that illegal aliens have no due process
    rights. Everything you've written above is true, the issue
    is that you're purposely avoiding the due process issue.

    You may find due process afforded to illegal aliens to be
    unpleasant, but that is protected by statute, and as such
    may be changed by statute. Write your congressperson about
    your ideas.

    "What "fictional" legal status? "

    The Biden administration created a 'parole' designation out
    of thin air to facilitate a lawless 'open border' regime.
    SCOTUS wasn't having it:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court-immigration-deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    Persons who are present illegally are subject to deportation
    with extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally
    present.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Sun Jun 1 11:07:50 2025
    On 6/1/2025 10:41 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:

    Persons who are present illegally are subject to
    deportation with extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally
    present.

    Didn't you just link the details of "due process"?



    It is quite limited and unlike those for a citizen: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-6-2-3/ALDE_00013726/

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jun 1 12:14:33 2025
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 11:41:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:

    Persons who are present illegally are subject to deportation with
    extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally present.

    Didn't you just link the details of "due process"?

    Fortunately, in regards to illegal imigtation, due process has many
    variations and doesn't always involve a courtroom and a judge.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Sun Jun 1 11:16:59 2025
    On 6/1/2025 11:07 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:41 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:

    Persons who are present illegally are subject to
    deportation with extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally
    present.

    Didn't you just link the details of "due process"?



    It is quite limited and unlike those for a citizen: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-6-2-3/
    ALDE_00013726/



    p.s. Peruse the statutes:
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1227

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jun 1 14:08:12 2025
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 14:05:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 12:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:41 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:

    Persons who are present illegally are subject to deportation with
    extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally present.

    Didn't you just link the details of "due process"?



    It is quite limited and unlike those for a citizen:

    Right. But not nonexistent, as some claim.

    Who claimed that?

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Sun Jun 1 13:19:00 2025
    On 6/1/2025 1:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 12:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:41 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:

    Persons who are present illegally are subject to
    deportation with extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed,
    illegally present.

    Didn't you just link the details of "due process"?



    It is quite limited and unlike those for a citizen:

    Right. But not nonexistent, as some claim.



    Actually illegals have more process rights than lawful
    temporary visa holders who may be removed at the Secretary
    of State's discretion. That process is largely a finding of
    fact that they are actually guilty of illegal entry.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jun 1 14:35:21 2025
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 14:18:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 2:08 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 14:05:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 12:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:41 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:

    Persons who are present illegally are subject to deportation with
    extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally present.

    Didn't you just link the details of "due process"?



    It is quite limited and unlike those for a citizen:

    Right. But not nonexistent, as some claim.

    Who claimed that?
    Someone claiming to be Catrike Ryder did, 5/30, posting here in an
    argument with Zen.

    =========================

    [feeble tricyclist:]
    Ilegalas [sic] are not entitled to due process.

    [Zen:] Yes, you braindead magatard, they are: >https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2025/05/11/yes-immigrants-in-the-u-s-illegally-still-have-due-process-rights/83481316007/

    "Despite Trump�s dismissal of and questions about due process for
    immigrants, the U.S. Constitution, legal experts and decades of court
    decisions agree: Immigrants in the U.S., regardless of how they entered
    the U.S., legally or illegally, have due process rights."


    [feeble tricyclist:]

    No, they don't.

    =========================

    If you're having memory problems, try taking notes. Or as with Tom,
    learn how to re-read what you've posted upthread.

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong, and indeed I should have
    said that illegal's due process rights are extremely limited and very
    unlike the due process rights of citizens and legal immigrants.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Shadow@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jun 1 16:29:11 2025
    On Sun, 01 Jun 2025 14:35:21 -0400, Catrike Ryder
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong, and indeed I should have
    said that illegal's due process rights are extremely limited and very
    unlike the due process rights of citizens and legal immigrants.

    All those students that paid a small fortune to do post-grads
    at good universities were legal immigrants(albeit temporary). They had
    visas.
    Mr Windrip decided they had less rights than the cheap
    immigrants he employs at his hotels...
    But then Mr Windrip never did respect anyone's rights.
    "The constitution? It's just a piece of paper."
    "The supreme court? A bunch of old fools!"
    []'s
    --
    Don't be evil - Google 2004
    We have a new policy - Google 2012
    Google Fuchsia - 2021

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to Shadow on Sun Jun 1 16:13:31 2025
    On Sun, 01 Jun 2025 16:29:11 -0300, Shadow <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 01 Jun 2025 14:35:21 -0400, Catrike Ryder
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong, and indeed I should have
    said that illegal's due process rights are extremely limited and very >>unlike the due process rights of citizens and legal immigrants.

    All those students that paid a small fortune to do post-grads
    at good universities were legal immigrants(albeit temporary). They had
    visas.
    Mr Windrip decided they had less rights than the cheap
    immigrants he employs at his hotels...
    But then Mr Windrip never did respect anyone's rights.
    "The constitution? It's just a piece of paper."
    "The supreme court? A bunch of old fools!"
    []'s

    Indeed, people with temporary visas do have less rights than citizens
    and legal immigrants.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 2 04:16:46 2025
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 21:13:21 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 2:35 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 14:18:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 2:08 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 14:05:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 12:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:41 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:

    Persons who are present illegally are subject to deportation with >>>>>>>> extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally present. >>>>>>>
    Didn't you just link the details of "due process"?



    It is quite limited and unlike those for a citizen:

    Right. But not nonexistent, as some claim.

    Who claimed that?
    Someone claiming to be Catrike Ryder did, 5/30, posting here in an
    argument with Zen.

    =========================

    [feeble tricyclist:]
    Ilegalas [sic] are not entitled to due process.

    [Zen:] Yes, you braindead magatard, they are:
    https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2025/05/11/yes-immigrants-in-the-u-s-illegally-still-have-due-process-rights/83481316007/

    "Despite Trump�s dismissal of and questions about due process for
    immigrants, the U.S. Constitution, legal experts and decades of court
    decisions agree: Immigrants in the U.S., regardless of how they entered >>> the U.S., legally or illegally, have due process rights."


    [feeble tricyclist:]

    No, they don't.

    =========================

    If you're having memory problems, try taking notes. Or as with Tom,
    learn how to re-read what you've posted upthread.

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong, and indeed...

    Indeed, you were wrong. Own it.

    I just did, Dumbshit, it's what we self secure people do...

    ...but why did you snip it? Was it hard for you to face? Was my
    ability to admit to making an error further damage your fragile self
    image?

    If that's the case, then hold on tight, little wussy-man, because I
    admit that I've made a lot of mistakes in my life, probably more than
    you, since doing things that involve some risk causes people to learn
    by their mistakes.

    The mistakes I made as child on a farm often drew blood, but they
    helped me to learn to question and evaluate the things I came across
    and not just take someone else's words. I was in early grade school
    when I tossed out organized religion's fear-mongering. A while back I
    easily evaluated you as a look-at-me narcissist when you posted the
    silliness below:

    "OK, tell us your biking experience, please. (And drop the 3rd grader insults.)"

    "How much recreational riding have you done on roads? How many years
    commuting to work by bike on normal roads? How much other utility
    riding have you done on ordinary roads? How much overnight or longer
    traveling have you done on normal roads? How much bike camping? How
    many U.S. states have you ridden in? How many foreign countries? How
    many century rides have you done? How many rides longer than 100 miles
    in one day? How many times have you organized and led friends on road
    rides? How many times have you organized and run multi-hundred rider
    event rides on normal roads?"

    "Answer in detail, please. That will allow us to gauge whether your
    courage and experience really are more than mine."

    "Answer in detail, please. That will allow us to gauge whether your
    courage and experience really are more than mine."
    - Frank Krygowski https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/mmxzneaxsdE/m/qVoI4KQlAQAJ

    So, go ahead and see if you can find some out of context item in this
    reply to respond to and snip away all the stuff that you can't deal
    with.

    Or else run away with your tail between you legs like you usually do.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to NFN Smith on Mon Jun 2 08:32:46 2025
    NFN Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    Roger Merriman wrote:
    NFN Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    Roger Merriman wrote:


    London so urban to Suburban, I’m outer london so mainly suburban, lower >>>> speed limits 20mph is common, almost certainly and reasonably chance of it >>>> being enforced aka speed cameras.

    Just curious -- are you inside or outside of the M25?

    Inside M25 tends to be line in the sand for if it’s London or not, are few >> places it passes through what is considered london but in general it’s the >> de facto border.

    So some 40/50 miles across depending on where as it’s not a perfect ring by
    any means!

    If I remember a map right, the shape is kind of oval, wider on the
    east-west axis.

    Yup it’s spread or rather enclosed various towns and villages to its west, and industry spread east,

    Which it has in North and south London but not universally so, hence the
    dips north and south.


    In Europe, I think that most canals tend to be done to facilitate
    drainage, especially working around population density. Where I am, the
    space is flat and very spread out. Our canal system was actually built
    several hundred years before the first European or Euro-American
    settlers. The Europeans modified somewhat with more modern engineering, >>> but for both, the intent of the canals is to move water from the river
    system into places that it can be used for agricultural irrigation.

    No European Canals where for transportation of industrial materials had
    fairly brief moment in history before the railways arrived, hence the tow
    paths for horses.

    That makes sense. In the US, I believe the Erie Canal was built that
    way, to facilitate towing


    Are places where you get irrigation and drainage such as the fens where
    they have drained the swamp as you where, but they aren’t the normal use >> for canals which are transporting materials and goods. Are still some in
    use like the ship canal between Liverpool and Manchester.

    No drainage at all, as we're in the middle of the Sonora Desert. And
    even if the river is at flood stage (very rarely) it's not navigable. Instead, there is a dam at one point in the river, and there, the river
    is entirely diverted into our canal system. Everything downstream is
    entirely dry, except for one place that they built a lake by putting in additional dams and re-flooding a 2-mile section of the riverbed.
    Otherwise, the only times that there is water is on occasions when
    reservoirs upstream are full enough that water is let out to keep them
    from overfilling. Essentially, whether the river has water in it or not
    is a matter of flood control.

    One of the effects of that is that we have several roads that simply
    ford the riverbed. But if the river is running, then the fords are
    closed, and it usually takes several weeks before everything dries up
    and the roads are re-opened to traffic.

    No fords in London bridges and few ferries plus tunnels clearly!

    The other effect of all the water diversion is that there is a lot of underground storage of water, and as a result, any water that comes out
    of the municipal water system is very hard, with a high mineral content.
    Not a big deal for flood-watering alfalfa fields, but not especially friendly for household use. Water that tastes bad, even if entirely
    safe to drink), but also hard on plumbing and water-using appliances.

    London water is hard hence kettles last a few years vs my folks place where they last decades.

    Smith




    Roger Merriman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From zen cycle@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Mon Jun 2 06:28:42 2025
    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 6:32 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 5/31/2025 12:15 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/31/2025 7:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 5:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 1:43 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ ebikes- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> share


    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guallpa said.
    “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair >>>>>>>>>>>>> trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about >>>>>>>>>>>>> three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest >>>>>>>>>>>>> deals with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, >>>>>>>>>>>>> noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention >>>>>>>>>>>>> that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of >>>>>>>>>>>>> ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car >>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like >>>>>>>>>>>>> motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of >>>>>>>>>>>>> immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog >>>>>>>>>>>>> whistles, even
    if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will
    consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their >>>>>>>>>>>> ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard
    groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is >>>>>>>>>>>> allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink
    propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal >>>>>>>>>>>> aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA
    illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the >>>>>>>>>>> illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the
    administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and >>>>>>>>>> attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and >>>>>>>>> attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction in the >>>>>>> past four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great Replacement' theory. >>>>>>
    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive of
    blatantly white christian nationalist fascism. Gee Andrew, who's
    going to be there when they come for you?


    I have no idea what you're raving about.

    yes you do, you're just unwilling to admit it.


    Go find a blatant white Christian nationalist fascist who's
    expounding some 'replacement theory' and give her a piece of your
    mind.

    Just for everyone else's edification who might be ignorant:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-twisted-logic- behind-the-
    rights-great-replacement-arguments/

    Don't try to feign ignorance Andrew, you're far too well- read and
    aware for me to buy that bullshit.


    Even SCOTUS agrees that open borders as fiat policy is unlawful:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court- immigration-
    deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    WTF? Are you taking kunich lessons now? You changed the subject then
    posted a link which doesn't support your claim.

    1) we weren't discussing open borders, we were discussing due
    process for deportation of illegal immigrants.

    2) your website doesn't address open borders, it addresses revoking
    _legal_ status for asylum seekers. The first sentence states:

    "The Supreme Court on Friday again cleared the way for the Trump
    administration to strip temporary legal protections from hundreds of
    thousands of immigrants".

    Regardless of your attempted distraction, the premise floated in
    this forum by the floriduh dumbass that illegal aliens have no due
    process protection is flat out wrong.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/ amendment-5/
    removal- of-aliens-who-have-entered-the- united-states
    "Despite the government’s broad power over immigration, the Supreme
    Court has recognized that aliens who have physically entered the
    United States generally come under the protective scope of the Due
    Process Clause, which applies “to all ‘persons’ within the United >>>> States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful,
    unlawful, temporary, or permanent.”"




    My link is germane because making up a fictional legal status is a
    purposeful attempt to thwart the actual Statute.

    What "fictional" legal status? The only fiction being promoted here is
    the dumbasses claim that illegal aliens have no due process rights.


    Regarding rights, US citizens enjoy full Constitutional rights
    including full due process. We proudly keep to that standard even
    when it perverts justice. And that's a good thing overall. We haven't
    changed it for good reasons.

    Franklin:
    “That it is better one hundred guilty persons should escape than that
    one innocent person should suffer is a maxim that has been long and
    generally approved.”

    Resident Legal Aliens have limited rights and their status can be
    revoked. RAs do have significant process rights in that event. More
    than merely not enjoying the franchise, RAs are importantly not
    citizens. Unlike our new fellow citizens who completed the
    naturalization process, Resident Aliens have not sworn loyalty to the
    nation and the nation in turn may revoke that status, but not
    summarily.  RAs have rights, but more limited than citizens' rights.

    Temporary visa holders are different again. These include people
    permitted entry for tourism or business, student/ educator, seasonal
    work, specialty skill employment and more.  All of those may be
    revoked much more easily than Resident Alien status by the Secretary
    of State or his agent, _"at his or her discretion"_:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/41.122

    Illegal entry is a crime. Those in the country illegally are subject
    to summary deportation.

    Let me see if I can make this so simple that even you understand it:

    ILLEGAL ALIENS HAVE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS.

    Does that make it more clear?


    Anything above unpleasant to you may be changed by Statute. Write
    your Congressman with your ideas.


    The unpleasantness is the magatard's constant demonstrably false
    declaration that illegal aliens have no due process rights. Everything
    you've written above is true, the issue is that you're purposely
    avoiding the due process issue.

    You may find due process afforded to illegal aliens to be unpleasant,
    but that is protected by statute, and as such may be changed by
    statute. Write your congressperson about your ideas.

    "What "fictional" legal status? "

    The Biden administration created a 'parole' designation out of thin air
    to facilitate a lawless 'open border' regime. SCOTUS wasn't having it:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court-immigration- deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    oh fer fucks sake. Would you _please_ read your links before you post them?

    1- Humanitarian parole is no more fiction that the sun will rise
    tomorrow. It's well within the presidents authority to create such LEGAL pathways.

    2- It's not an "open border" policy...stop parroting karoline leavitt.

    2- Scotus didn't determine that humanitarian parole was not legal. The
    case in your link determined that Trump had the authority to revoke the
    status. The white house _wants_ to spin the policy as illegal, but that
    was never the question, and the courts didn't come anywhere close to
    claiming humanitarian parole was illegal.

    It's funny how you people rant fictitious claims of biden creating 'open borders' and unconstitutional protections, but remain silent when trump
    wants to overturn constitutional protections (birthright citizenship) by executive order.

    You may find birthright citizenship to be unpleasant, but that is
    protected by the constitution, and as such may be changed only changed
    by constitutional amendment. Write your congressperson about your ideas.


    Persons who are present illegally are subject to deportation with
    extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally present.

    You may find due process afforded to illegal aliens to be unpleasant,
    but that is protected by statute, and as such may be changed by statute.
    Write your congressperson about your ideas.

    While you're at it, see if you can start a petition to allow trump to
    change the constitution by executive order. But only for trump, of
    course, because a democrat president would only use it as a means to
    become a dictator.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rolf Mantel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 2 12:20:53 2025
    Am 31.05.2025 um 03:10 schrieb John B.:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:58:42 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 15:37 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>

    “This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,” Ms. Guallpa said. “The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.”

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the >>>>>>>> same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger! >>>>>>>
    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>>>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>>>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>>>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are >>>>>>> too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>>>>> if  you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for >>>>>> a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant >>>>>> opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is >>>>>> no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration, >>>> not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    So your local head of ICE can claim you're illegal (because you beat him
    in poker) and deport you?

    You're not entitled to due process as per your own declaration.

    Nonsense. Whether a person is here illegally or not is very easy to
    determine and to prove.

    Your local head of ICE has already put you in a plane so he doesn't have
    to pay his poker debts. Tough luck for you: without due process, his
    decision is final.

    "Due Process" is the legal framework that gives you a chance to prove
    that you're in the USA legally.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of >>>> whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing misdemeanors.

    It's years since I had anything to do with the Immigration people but
    back then a legal Immigrant was issued a "green card".

    The "green card" was best version of legal immigration but there
    are/were lots of temporary visa varieties also providing legal immigration.

    No card then illegal.

    The current administration is of the opinion "Greed card and you're
    still illegal if we don't like you". This is where "due process" is
    most important: under which conditions is the administration allowed to
    revoke a green card (or other visa permitting work in the USA)?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 2 06:55:57 2025
    On Mon, 2 Jun 2025 12:20:53 +0200, Rolf Mantel <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Am 31.05.2025 um 03:10 schrieb John B.:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:58:42 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 15:37 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 15:16:21 +0200, Rolf Mantel
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike traffic >>>>>>>>>>> violations. Let's see if this will get people past the paywall: >>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ebikes-scooters- >>>>>>>>>>> cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url-share >>>>>>>>>>

    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. Guallpa said. �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a situation where our >>>>>>>>>> communities could be targets for deportation.�

    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation.

    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who cannot vote) are >>>>>>>>> ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens who, by >>>>>>>>> Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair trigger! >>>>>>>>
    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about three >>>>>>>> paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest deals with the >>>>>>>> disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, noting that cars >>>>>>>> kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention that NYC life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. Yet people are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of ebikes, and ebike >>>>>>>> riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car drivers. >>>>>>>>
    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like motorcycles - >>>>>>>> meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths.

    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of
    immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog whistles, even >>>>>>>> if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their ignorant >>>>>>> opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard groupthink nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is allowing >>>>>>> himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal aliens....are >>>>>>> where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA illegally, her >>>>>> statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the illegals. >>>>>
    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the administration, >>>>> not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and
    attempted to deport without due process.

    Ilegalas are not entitled to due process.

    So your local head of ICE can claim you're illegal (because you beat him >>> in poker) and deport you?

    You're not entitled to due process as per your own declaration.

    Nonsense. Whether a person is here illegally or not is very easy to
    determine and to prove.

    Your local head of ICE has already put you in a plane so he doesn't have >>> to pay his poker debts. Tough luck for you: without due process, his
    decision is final.

    "Due Process" is the legal framework that gives you a chance to prove
    that you're in the USA legally.

    Many people have sympathies with following "due process" irrespective of >>>>> whether they have sympathies with people accused of committing misdemeanors.

    It's years since I had anything to do with the Immigration people but
    back then a legal Immigrant was issued a "green card".

    The "green card" was best version of legal immigration but there
    are/were lots of temporary visa varieties also providing legal immigration.

    No card then illegal.

    The current administration is of the opinion "Greed card and you're
    still illegal if we don't like you". This is where "due process" is
    most important: under which conditions is the administration allowed to >revoke a green card (or other visa permitting work in the USA)?

    The only due process requirement for illegals and temporary visa
    holders is the right for them to provide documention of their
    immigration status.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 2 06:43:53 2025
    On Mon, 2 Jun 2025 06:28:42 -0400, zen cycle
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 6:32 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 5/31/2025 12:15 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/31/2025 7:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 5:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 1:43 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/30/2025 11:07 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 10:41:51 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/30/2025 9:16 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
    Am 30.05.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On Fri, 30 May 2025 08:25:26 -0400, Zen Cycle
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 5/26/2025 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 8:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 5/26/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 21:36:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    New York Times article on police cracking down on ebike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traffic
    violations. Let's see if this will get people past the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/nyregion/ ebikes- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scooters-
    cyclists- nyc.html?
    unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.voH2.AOcHv0jrnp79&smid=url- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> share


    �This is a direct attack on immigrant workers,� Ms. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guallpa said.
    �The
    intent is to criminalize workers and to create a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation where our
    communities could be targets for deportation.� >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Typical NYT woke nonsense...

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    +1 with the typical misdirection and conflation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Legal Resident Aliens (taxpaying, working people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot vote) are
    ignored, along with US citizens. Criminal illegal aliens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who, by
    Statute, cannot work and who are subject to summary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deportation by the
    same Statutes, are where her sympathies lie.

    Damn. The right wing of this newsgroup is always on hair >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trigger!

    The article contains over 2000 words. Of those, only about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> three
    paragraphs mention immigrant delivery workers. The rest >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deals with the
    disparity between ebike and car enforcement policies, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> noting that cars
    kill far, far more pedestrians. It doesn't even mention >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that NYC
    life is
    totally dominated by the negative effects of car traffic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet people
    are
    enraged about the comparatively minuscule effects of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebikes, and ebike
    riders are in some ways being treated more harshly than car >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers.

    Look, I think ebike riders should ride legally. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. ebikes are
    too fast, and/or should be legally treated more like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> motorcycles -
    meaning integrated into traffic and kept off bike paths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    But you guys ignore all that, blinded by the brief mention of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> immigrants. You never fail to respond to right wing dog >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whistles, even
    if� you have to blow the whistle yourself.

    Braindead magatards like the floriduh dumbass will
    consistently look for
    a political scapegoat for any issue they have based their >>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorant
    opinions on, as is shown by his parroting of magatard >>>>>>>>>>>>> groupthink
    nonsense.

    Andrew isn't as bad as most but even he more recently is >>>>>>>>>>>>> allowing
    himself to get sucked into the magatard groupthink
    propaganda - there is
    no evidence in that article to support "Criminal illegal >>>>>>>>>>>>> aliens....are
    where her sympathies lie."

    Since deportation only applies to people in the USA
    illegally, her
    statement absolutely indicates her sympathies are with the >>>>>>>>>>>> illegals.

    Deportation applies to people "presumed illegal" by the
    administration,
    not only to people legally determined illegal.
    Sadly the current admisitration has declared people illegal and >>>>>>>>>>> attempted to deport without due process.

    +1, There have already been several well documented detentions and >>>>>>>>>> attempted deportations of _legal_ immigrants.


    Mistakes were made. All were quickly corrected.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    Compare with some 20 million errors in the other direction in the >>>>>>>> past four years.


    Oh, great, now you're on board with 'The Great Replacement' theory. >>>>>>>
    Interesting that an admitted atheist would be supportive of
    blatantly white christian nationalist fascism. Gee Andrew, who's >>>>>>> going to be there when they come for you?


    I have no idea what you're raving about.

    yes you do, you're just unwilling to admit it.


    Go find a blatant white Christian nationalist fascist who's
    expounding some 'replacement theory' and give her a piece of your
    mind.

    Just for everyone else's edification who might be ignorant:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-twisted-logic- behind-the-
    rights-great-replacement-arguments/

    Don't try to feign ignorance Andrew, you're far too well- read and
    aware for me to buy that bullshit.


    Even SCOTUS agrees that open borders as fiat policy is unlawful:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court- immigration-
    deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    WTF? Are you taking kunich lessons now? You changed the subject then >>>>> posted a link which doesn't support your claim.

    1) we weren't discussing open borders, we were discussing due
    process for deportation of illegal immigrants.

    2) your website doesn't address open borders, it addresses revoking
    _legal_ status for asylum seekers. The first sentence states:

    "The Supreme Court on Friday again cleared the way for the Trump
    administration to strip temporary legal protections from hundreds of >>>>> thousands of immigrants".

    Regardless of your attempted distraction, the premise floated in
    this forum by the floriduh dumbass that illegal aliens have no due
    process protection is flat out wrong.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/ amendment-5/
    removal- of-aliens-who-have-entered-the- united-states
    "Despite the government�s broad power over immigration, the Supreme
    Court has recognized that aliens who have physically entered the
    United States generally come under the protective scope of the Due
    Process Clause, which applies �to all �persons� within the United
    States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful,
    unlawful, temporary, or permanent.�"




    My link is germane because making up a fictional legal status is a
    purposeful attempt to thwart the actual Statute.

    What "fictional" legal status? The only fiction being promoted here is
    the dumbasses claim that illegal aliens have no due process rights.


    Regarding rights, US citizens enjoy full Constitutional rights
    including full due process. We proudly keep to that standard even
    when it perverts justice. And that's a good thing overall. We haven't
    changed it for good reasons.

    Franklin:
    �That it is better one hundred guilty persons should escape than that
    one innocent person should suffer is a maxim that has been long and
    generally approved.�

    Resident Legal Aliens have limited rights and their status can be
    revoked. RAs do have significant process rights in that event. More
    than merely not enjoying the franchise, RAs are importantly not
    citizens. Unlike our new fellow citizens who completed the
    naturalization process, Resident Aliens have not sworn loyalty to the
    nation and the nation in turn may revoke that status, but not
    summarily.� RAs have rights, but more limited than citizens' rights.

    Temporary visa holders are different again. These include people
    permitted entry for tourism or business, student/ educator, seasonal
    work, specialty skill employment and more.� All of those may be
    revoked much more easily than Resident Alien status by the Secretary
    of State or his agent, _"at his or her discretion"_:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/41.122

    Illegal entry is a crime. Those in the country illegally are subject
    to summary deportation.

    Let me see if I can make this so simple that even you understand it:

    ILLEGAL ALIENS HAVE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS.

    Does that make it more clear?


    Anything above unpleasant to you may be changed by Statute. Write
    your Congressman with your ideas.


    The unpleasantness is the magatard's constant demonstrably false
    declaration that illegal aliens have no due process rights. Everything
    you've written above is true, the issue is that you're purposely
    avoiding the due process issue.

    You may find due process afforded to illegal aliens to be unpleasant,
    but that is protected by statute, and as such may be changed by
    statute. Write your congressperson about your ideas.

    "What "fictional" legal status? "

    The Biden administration created a 'parole' designation out of thin air
    to facilitate a lawless 'open border' regime. SCOTUS wasn't having it:

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court-immigration-
    deportation-8bc46820c6444fbb3540c09764e32905

    oh fer fucks sake. Would you _please_ read your links before you post them?

    1- Humanitarian parole is no more fiction that the sun will rise
    tomorrow. It's well within the presidents authority to create such LEGAL >pathways.

    2- It's not an "open border" policy...stop parroting karoline leavitt.

    2- Scotus didn't determine that humanitarian parole was not legal. The
    case in your link determined that Trump had the authority to revoke the >status. The white house _wants_ to spin the policy as illegal, but that
    was never the question, and the courts didn't come anywhere close to
    claiming humanitarian parole was illegal.

    It's funny how you people rant fictitious claims of biden creating 'open >borders' and unconstitutional protections, but remain silent when trump
    wants to overturn constitutional protections (birthright citizenship) by >executive order.

    You may find birthright citizenship to be unpleasant, but that is
    protected by the constitution, and as such may be changed only changed
    by constitutional amendment. Write your congressperson about your ideas.


    Persons who are present illegally are subject to deportation with
    extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally present.

    You may find due process afforded to illegal aliens to be unpleasant,
    but that is protected by statute, and as such may be changed by statute. >Write your congressperson about your ideas.

    While you're at it, see if you can start a petition to allow trump to
    change the constitution by executive order. But only for trump, of
    course, because a democrat president would only use it as a means to
    become a dictator.


    Actually, noting the extremely limited due process afforded to
    illegals isn't particularly unpleasant. It's not as though it has to
    involve a courtroom and a judge.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rolf Mantel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 2 13:24:49 2025
    Am 01.06.2025 um 12:04 schrieb Roger Merriman:
    NFN Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    Roger Merriman wrote:

    We also have several canals (including one right next to my house) that >>>> have dedicated multi-use paths on one side of the canal. These are more >>>> or less municipal paths, and very much a magnet for recreational use,
    ranging from simple pedestrians to serious cyclists. On the other side >>>> of the canal (at least in the space near my house) what's there is
    essentially a service road that is owned by the water utility that
    operates the canal. In some places, the service road is paved (and also >>>> suitable for cycling, as it's even wider than the multi-use path), but >>>> only a mile in either direction, the surface is gravel.


    Those are lovely places but not particularly useful for utility purposes as >>> they are narrow and is limited as to how many can useful use such places. >>
    Besides passing visual similarities, the two are entirely different
    situations.

    In Europe, I think that most canals tend to be done to facilitate
    drainage, especially working around population density. Where I am, the
    space is flat and very spread out. Our canal system was actually built
    several hundred years before the first European or Euro-American
    settlers. The Europeans modified somewhat with more modern engineering,
    but for both, the intent of the canals is to move water from the river
    system into places that it can be used for agricultural irrigation.

    No European Canals where for transportation of industrial materials had fairly brief moment in history before the railways arrived, hence the tow paths for horses.

    Are places where you get irrigation and drainage such as the fens where
    they have drained the swamp as you where, but they aren’t the normal use for canals which are transporting materials and goods. Are still some in
    use like the ship canal between Liverpool and Manchester.

    "Europe" is a big region. We have drainage canals in swamplands and
    flat coastal areas (e.g. Germany, Netherlands, Fenlands in the UK).
    The larger ones
    <https://maps.app.goo.gl/9yHW47yd9YhgM3cq5>
    usually have "dam's crown" lanes on both sides but sometimes interrupted
    by newer roads, thus rarely/barely useful for recreational purposes.

    There are irrigation canals in the drier regions in shouthern Europe;
    the old ones usually have a footpath for maintenance alongside.

    Then there are the transportational canals in the two varieties
    "pre-railway" (mostly in UK, France, Belgium, and mostly derelict ones
    in other countries) with tow paths and modern ones the size of major rivers <https://maps.app.goo.gl/5W3LZVq1YDnQvS5G7>
    which usually have paths that can be used for recreational purposes if
    they are not interrupted by ports (or a port bypass is built).

    Rolf

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zen Cycle@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 2 10:46:09 2025
    On Sun, 01 Jun 2025 14:35:21 -0400, floriduh dumbass
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong,

    No one is desperate to prove you wrong, dumbass. You do that fine all on
    your own.

    and indeed I should have
    said that illegal's due process rights are extremely limited and very
    unlike the due process rights of citizens and legal immigrants.

    But you didn't, and not just once, but after being shown information
    that proved you wrong, you doubled down with "no, they don't".

    You had the opportunity at that point to stop embarrassing yourself,
    yet, much like kunich, you continued to do so even with direct evidence
    to the contrary.

    You were simply parroting what trump wants you to believe.

    And of course, a mere 3 days later, you feign complete ignorance that
    you ever made such a claim.

    Floriduh dumbass continuing to make the dumbshine state proud.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 2 11:54:08 2025
    On Mon, 2 Jun 2025 10:21:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/2/2025 4:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 21:13:21 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 2:35 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 14:18:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 2:08 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jun 2025 14:05:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/1/2025 12:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:41 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 6/1/2025 10:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:

    Persons who are present illegally are subject to deportation with >>>>>>>>>> extremely limited process:

    https://www.usa.gov/deportation-process

    Mostly a finding of fact that they are, indeed, illegally present. >>>>>>>>>
    Didn't you just link the details of "due process"?



    It is quite limited and unlike those for a citizen:

    Right. But not nonexistent, as some claim.

    Who claimed that?
    Someone claiming to be Catrike Ryder did, 5/30, posting here in an
    argument with Zen.

    =========================

    [feeble tricyclist:]
    Ilegalas [sic] are not entitled to due process.

    [Zen:] Yes, you braindead magatard, they are:
    https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2025/05/11/yes-immigrants-in-the-u-s-illegally-still-have-due-process-rights/83481316007/

    "Despite Trump�s dismissal of and questions about due process for >>>>> immigrants, the U.S. Constitution, legal experts and decades of court >>>>> decisions agree: Immigrants in the U.S., regardless of how they entered
    the U.S., legally or illegally, have due process rights."


    [feeble tricyclist:]

    No, they don't.

    =========================

    If you're having memory problems, try taking notes. Or as with Tom,
    learn how to re-read what you've posted upthread.

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong, and indeed...

    Indeed, you were wrong. Own it.

    I just did...

    And your anger and embarrassment are obvious, by your obscenities and >attacks. Others here have admitted their errors with far more class.

    <chuckle> You mean "the anger and embarrassment" I expressed by adding
    an admission that I've made many mistakes in my life?

    I should have added that I intend to make more mistakes in my
    remaining years.

    Maybe that's partly because they didn't invest a week in repeating the
    same false claims over and over, repeatedly denying that they were wrong >despite evidence.

    My mistake was to think of due process as requiring courtrooms,
    lawyers and judges, as most people do. My statement was slightly
    incorrect in that an illegal's so called "due process" is so limited
    as to only require an opportunity for them to document their legal
    status to the arresting officer.

    But hey, congratulations on finally learning a little bit!

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

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  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 2 12:26:56 2025
    On Mon, 2 Jun 2025 10:46:09 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 01 Jun 2025 14:35:21 -0400, floriduh dumbass
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong,

    No one is desperate to prove you wrong, dumbass. You do that fine all on
    your own.

    and indeed I should have
    said that illegal's due process rights are extremely limited and very
    unlike the due process rights of citizens and legal immigrants.

    But you didn't, and not just once, but after being shown information
    that proved you wrong, you doubled down with "no, they don't".

    You had the opportunity at that point to stop embarrassing yourself,
    yet, much like kunich, you continued to do so even with direct evidence
    to the contrary.

    You were simply parroting what trump wants you to believe.

    And of course, a mere 3 days later, you feign complete ignorance that
    you ever made such a claim.

    Floriduh dumbass continuing to make the dumbshine state proud.



    You can refer to an arresting officer asking an illegal to show an ID
    as "due process," but that's a bit of an exaggeration.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Zen Cycle@21:1/5 to marika on Wed Jun 4 15:51:55 2025
    XPost: alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley

    On 6/4/2025 2:54 PM, marika wrote:
    Zen Cycle <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 01 Jun 2025 14:35:21 -0400, floriduh dumbass
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong,

    No one is desperate to prove you wrong, dumbass. You do that fine all on
    your own.

    and indeed I should have
    said that illegal's due process rights are extremely limited and very
    unlike the due process rights of citizens and legal immigrants.

    But you didn't, and not just once, but after being shown information
    that proved you wrong, you doubled down with "no, they don't".

    You had the opportunity at that point to stop embarrassing yourself,
    yet, much like kunich, you continued to do so even with direct evidence
    to the contrary.

    You were simply parroting what trump wants you to believe.

    Or like a mockingbird

    He is a relatively grey unassuming bird til he flies
    Then you can see his racing stripes

    he's not realtively grey, he's absolutely grey, in addition to wrinkled, feeble, and somewhat infirmed

    he can't fly - even metaphorically

    His stripes aren't racing, they're ignorant.



    And of course, a mere 3 days later, you feign complete ignorance that
    you ever made such a claim.

    Floriduh dumbass continuing to make the dumbshine state proud.









    --
    Add xx to reply

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jun 4 16:35:24 2025
    XPost: alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley

    On Wed, 04 Jun 2025 16:22:27 -0400, Catrike Ryder
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 15:51:55 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 6/4/2025 2:54 PM, marika wrote:
    Zen Cycle <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 01 Jun 2025 14:35:21 -0400, floriduh dumbass
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong,

    No one is desperate to prove you wrong, dumbass. You do that fine all on >>>> your own.

    and indeed I should have
    said that illegal's due process rights are extremely limited and very >>>>>> unlike the due process rights of citizens and legal immigrants.

    But you didn't, and not just once, but after being shown information
    that proved you wrong, you doubled down with "no, they don't".

    You had the opportunity at that point to stop embarrassing yourself,
    yet, much like kunich, you continued to do so even with direct evidence >>>> to the contrary.

    You were simply parroting what trump wants you to believe.

    Or like a mockingbird

    He is a relatively grey unassuming bird til he flies
    Then you can see his racing stripes

    he's not realtively grey, he's absolutely grey, in addition to wrinkled, >>feeble, and somewhat infirmed

    he can't fly - even metaphorically

    His stripes aren't racing, they're ignorant.



    And of course, a mere 3 days later, you feign complete ignorance that
    you ever made such a claim.

    Floriduh dumbass continuing to make the dumbshine state proud.






    Trump hasn't been telling anyone what to say, but some democrats sure
    have been doing that, pussified Tampon Timmy Walz, for instance.

    https://apnews.com/article/tim-walz-minnesota-governor-south-carolina-democrats-86d6d99db5f5d5f39e8df8766df32609


    Tim Walz is a pathetic clown who continues to turn Democrats into
    Republicans.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 4 16:22:27 2025
    XPost: alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley

    On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 15:51:55 -0400, Zen Cycle <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 6/4/2025 2:54 PM, marika wrote:
    Zen Cycle <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 01 Jun 2025 14:35:21 -0400, floriduh dumbass
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Krygowski is desperate to prove me wrong,

    No one is desperate to prove you wrong, dumbass. You do that fine all on >>> your own.

    and indeed I should have
    said that illegal's due process rights are extremely limited and very >>>>> unlike the due process rights of citizens and legal immigrants.

    But you didn't, and not just once, but after being shown information
    that proved you wrong, you doubled down with "no, they don't".

    You had the opportunity at that point to stop embarrassing yourself,
    yet, much like kunich, you continued to do so even with direct evidence
    to the contrary.

    You were simply parroting what trump wants you to believe.

    Or like a mockingbird

    He is a relatively grey unassuming bird til he flies
    Then you can see his racing stripes

    he's not realtively grey, he's absolutely grey, in addition to wrinkled, >feeble, and somewhat infirmed

    he can't fly - even metaphorically

    His stripes aren't racing, they're ignorant.



    And of course, a mere 3 days later, you feign complete ignorance that
    you ever made such a claim.

    Floriduh dumbass continuing to make the dumbshine state proud.






    Trump hasn't been telling anyone what to say, but some democrats sure
    have been doing that, pussified Tampon Timmy Walz, for instance.

    https://apnews.com/article/tim-walz-minnesota-governor-south-carolina-democrats-86d6d99db5f5d5f39e8df8766df32609

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)