I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing. Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases alot of air bubbles after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing. Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases alot of air bubbles after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear
brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think
wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing.
Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles
after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull
to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so
the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the
levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring
on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom
to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman
mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
Right you can't purge the air unless fluid flow is bottom to top.
Exactly the opposite of autos.
Air collects in the various caliper voids and doesn't readily reach the
line when you are pushing fluid. Remove the caliper from its mount and
tap it with something while you flush the line.
On 3/20/2025 4:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear
brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think
wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing.
Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles
after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull
to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so
the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the
levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring
on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom
to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman
mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
Right you can't purge the air unless fluid flow is bottom to top.
Exactly the opposite of autos.
Air collects in the various caliper voids and doesn't readily reach the
line when you are pushing fluid. Remove the caliper from its mount and
tap it with something while you flush the line.
We called that "physics" where I come from.
On 3/20/2025 4:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to
bleed the rear brakes backwards but I cured the front
brakes which you would think wouldn't be a problem since
it is all vertical hoses was amazing. Bleeding that brake
from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles after
which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way
pull to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full
of liquid so the levers were full and it couldn't be air
trapped somewhere in the levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using
the syring on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out
of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos
showed bottom to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one
video, made by a woman mechanic seems to be the only way
to get the brake properly bled.
Right you can't purge the air unless fluid flow is bottom
to top. Exactly the opposite of autos.
Air collects in the various caliper voids and doesn't
readily reach the line when you are pushing fluid. Remove
the caliper from its mount and tap it with something while
you flush the line.
We called that "physics" where I come from.
On 3/21/2025 4:08 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 3/20/2025 4:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rearRight you can't purge the air unless fluid flow is bottom to top.
brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think
wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing.
Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles
after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull
to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid
so the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in
the levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring
on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed
bottom to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a
woman mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled. >>>
Exactly the opposite of autos.
Air collects in the various caliper voids and doesn't readily reach
the line when you are pushing fluid. Remove the caliper from its
mount and tap it with something while you flush the line.
We called that "physics" where I come from.
Well, yes.
In autos, the system is designed to purge with downward flow. Bicycle
systems have voids which are prone to air pockets in inconvenient
position and orientation. Also, the line diameter in relation to fluid viscosity is unfavorable (air bubbles tend 'stick' in place, hence
'tapping' to free them).
Anyone experienced in auto or motorcycle clutch and braking hydraulic
systems will have to learn bicycle systems from scratch; they are very different in application despite the same physics in both.
On 3/21/2025 9:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/21/2025 4:08 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 3/20/2025 4:53 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to
bleed the rear brakes backwards but I cured the front
brakes which you would think wouldn't be a problem
since it is all vertical hoses was amazing. Bleeding
that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air
bubbles after which the disk levers were hard and with
about a half way pull to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be
full of liquid so the levers were full and it couldn't
be air trapped somewhere in the levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and
using the syring on the bottom pulled a great deal of
air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the
videos showed bottom to top, bleeding trom top to
bottom as one video, made by a woman mechanic seems to
be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
Right you can't purge the air unless fluid flow is
bottom to top. Exactly the opposite of autos.
Air collects in the various caliper voids and doesn't
readily reach the line when you are pushing fluid.
Remove the caliper from its mount and tap it with
something while you flush the line.
We called that "physics" where I come from.
Well, yes.
In autos, the system is designed to purge with downward
flow. Bicycle systems have voids which are prone to air
pockets in inconvenient position and orientation. Also,
the line diameter in relation to fluid viscosity is
unfavorable (air bubbles tend 'stick' in place, hence
'tapping' to free them).
Anyone experienced in auto or motorcycle clutch and
braking hydraulic systems will have to learn bicycle
systems from scratch; they are very different in
application despite the same physics in both.
ISTM a major factor in designing automobile hydraulics to
facilitate top-to-bottom purging is that it isn't practical
to flip the car to different orientations.
On Fri Mar 21 05:08:31 2025 zen cycle wrote:
We called that "physics" where I come from.
But then you think that you're also an EE. And don't have to look down at fiction shifters in the heat of a race. And think that people are standing in line to believe that you rode 200 miles in one day at an average speed of 20 mph.
On Fri Mar 21 05:08:31 2025 zen cycle wrote:
We called that "physics" where I come from.
But then you think that you're also an EE.
And don't have to look down at fiction shifters in the heat of a race.
And think that people are standing in line to believe that you rode 200 miles in one day at an average speed of 20 mph.
We called that "physics" where I come from.
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:a lot of air bubbles after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull to lock.
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing. Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
I have done it both ways and all seem to work about the same. However
getting in a hurry and not letting things settle is a problem. This
youtube video I watched is great and this works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLF56banjs
--
Deacon Mark
On 3/20/2025 4:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear
brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think
wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing.
Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles
after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull
to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so
the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the
levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring
on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom
to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman
mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
I have done it both ways and all seem to work about the same. However getting in a hurry and not letting things settle is a problem. This
youtube video I watched is great and this works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLF56banjs
SO much more finicky than dealing with cable actuated rim brakes!
On Thu Mar 20 15:44:34 2025 Mark J cleary wrote:a lot of air bubbles after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull to lock.
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing. Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
I have done it both ways and all seem to work about the same. However
getting in a hurry and not letting things settle is a problem. This
youtube video I watched is great and this works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLF56banjs
--
Deacon Mark
I have entirely internal hoses and bottom to top does not work. I would have to tip my bike virtually onto its rear wheel and my stand doesn't like that.
On Fri Mar 21 11:52:48 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 3/21/2025 11:49 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Mar 21 05:08:31 2025 zen cycle wrote:
We called that "physics" where I come from.
But then you think that you're also an EE. And don't have to look down at fiction shifters in the heat of a race. And think that people are standing in line to believe that you rode 200 miles in one day at an average speed of 20 mph.
I didn't and don't look down at my DT friction shifters.
What ever would you expect to see??
Like everyone else, I listen (not look) for the gear change.
You look to see WHERE the shift lever is in the thick of a race sprint. After you have it in your hand of course youy shift by sound abnd feel
On Fri Mar 21 13:07:40 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
On 3/21/2025 12:49 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Mar 21 05:08:31 2025 zen cycle wrote:
We called that "physics" where I come from.
But then you think that you're also an EE.
I don't think it, I know it, as does everyone I know.
(strike 1)
And don't have to look down at fiction shifters in the heat of a race.
True, I don't. Neither has any person in this forum who's cared to
comment. Nor did any competent rider I've ever ridden or raced with.
It's a problem only you seem to have.
(strike 2)
And think that people are standing in line to believe that you rode 200 miles in one day at an average speed of 20 mph.
I don't think that because it isn't true. No one believes that, because
no one except you seems to think I ever made the claim. No matter how
many time you tell the lie that I ever made such a claim, it will never
become true.
(strike 3....haven't you realized by now you really really suck at this?)
What we can take from this is that tommy thinks fluid dynamics vis--vis
the the movement of air a fluid through a tube is _not_ a principle in
physics, but a dent popping out of a top tube on a rough road _is_.
You tell me that even though a pro racer who raced europe said exactly the opposite of your idiotic beliefs.
On 3/21/2025 12:54 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Thu Mar 20 15:44:34 2025 Mark J cleary wrote:
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rearI have done it both ways and all seem to work about the same. However
brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think
wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing.
Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles
after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull
to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid
so the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in
the levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring
on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed
bottom to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a
woman mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled. >>>
getting in a hurry and not letting things settle is a problem. This
youtube video I watched is great and this works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLF56banjs
--
Deacon Mark
I have entirely internal hoses and bottom to top does not work. I
would have to tip my bike virtually onto its rear wheel and my stand
doesn't like that.
Detach caliper from its mount so it hangs below line.
Slack handlebar clamp at the stem if needed to get the lever port
horizontal.
Push fluid from bottom to top.
Tap caliper to dislodge air bubbles while pushing the fluid.
You're welcome.
On 3/20/2025 4:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear
brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think
wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing.
Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles
after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull
to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so
the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the
levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring
on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom
to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman
mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
I have done it both ways and all seem to work about the same. However
getting in a hurry and not letting things settle is a problem. This
youtube video I watched is great and this works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLF56banjs
SO much more finicky than dealing with cable actuated rim brakes!
Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/20/2025 4:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:This is a Tom thing! Cable disks have niche applications, much like
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear
brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think
wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing.
Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles
after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull
to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so >>>> the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the
levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring
on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom >>>> to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman
mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
I have done it both ways and all seem to work about the same. However
getting in a hurry and not letting things settle is a problem. This
youtube video I watched is great and this works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLF56banjs
SO much more finicky than dealing with cable actuated rim brakes!
hydraulic rim brakes, both of which aren’t obsolete but are technological dead ends, with the same products being sold.
Cable disks as they aren’t a sealed system, get muck into the callipers, which absolutely will do a number on the calliper, my Gravel bike as new
had cable disks, used a few different callipers before I upgraded to hydraulic.
They require much more maintenance, aka adjusting as the pads wear down, aren’t as powerful as hydraulics and realistically are rather the worse of both worlds.
Assuming the bike has the clearance for 32ish then rim brakes arguably are easier to live with as long as it’s a road bike, rim pads have a remarkably short lifespan on wet mucky rides! Let alone lack of power and so on.
Roger Merriman
On 22/3/25 08:17, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
This is a Tom thing! Cable disks have niche applications, much like
SO much more finicky than dealing with cable actuated rim brakes!
hydraulic rim brakes, both of which aren’t obsolete but are technological >> dead ends, with the same products being sold.
Cable disks as they aren’t a sealed system, get muck into the callipers, >> which absolutely will do a number on the calliper, my Gravel bike as new
had cable disks, used a few different callipers before I upgraded to
hydraulic.
They require much more maintenance, aka adjusting as the pads wear down,
aren’t as powerful as hydraulics and realistically are rather the worse of >> both worlds.
Assuming the bike has the clearance for 32ish then rim brakes arguably are >> easier to live with as long as it’s a road bike, rim pads have a remarkably
short lifespan on wet mucky rides! Let alone lack of power and so on.
I am very happy with my gravel bike equipped with cable actuated disc
brakes (TRP Spyre C), 160mm discs, Jagwire semi metallic pads and compressionless housings.
Adjustment is infrequent and easy. Braking performance is fine. Maintainability is easy.
On Fri Mar 21 13:14:24 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Detach caliper from its mount so it hangs below line.
Slack handlebar clamp at the stem if needed to get the lever
port horizontal.
Push fluid from bottom to top.
Tap caliper to dislodge air bubbles while pushing the fluid.
You're welcome.
Thanks Andrew, but isn't that more complicated than simply bleeding it backwards?fitted.
I did discover that the back actuator line wasn't all the way tightened which was leaking air in. I will have to develop the habit of always tightening connectors all the way when they are installed rather than going back after everthing is properly
The rear derailleur is giving me trouble again. Upper and lower limits are set but I can't tighten the shift cable tight enough not to run out of adjustment in the cable tensioner and there's no room to use the cable tightener on that long arm rearderailuer. I suppose I will have to find my misplaced pliers to pull the cable since it is a left hande operation and I can't pull hard enough with the longnose pliers.
On 3/21/2025 5:17 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/20/2025 4:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:This is a Tom thing!
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear >>>> brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think
wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing.
Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles >>>> after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull >>>> to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so >>>> the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the >>>> levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring >>>> on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom >>>> to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman
mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
I have done it both ways and all seem to work about the same. However
getting in a hurry and not letting things settle is a problem. This
youtube video I watched is great and this works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLF56banjs
SO much more finicky than dealing with cable actuated rim brakes!
Misreading what I wrote is a Tom thing!
Cable disks have niche applications, much like
hydraulic rim brakes, both of which aren?t obsolete but are technological dead ends, with the same products being sold.
Cable disks as they aren?t a sealed system, get muck into the callipers, which absolutely will do a number on the calliper, my Gravel bike as new had cable disks, used a few different callipers before I upgraded to hydraulic.
They require much more maintenance, aka adjusting as the pads wear down, aren?t as powerful as hydraulics and realistically are rather the worse of both worlds.
Except I was talking about cable actuated rim brakes, not cable disks.
Assuming the bike has the clearance for 32ish then rim brakes arguably are easier to live with as long as it?s a road bike, rim pads have a remarkably short lifespan on wet mucky rides! Let alone lack of power and so on.Agreed. Like the vast majority of cyclists, almost all my miles are on pavement. I don't do many miles on wet mucky rides.
Since every system has its own features and foibles, it's
good that we have choice.
On Fri Mar 21 16:39:35 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Since every system has its own features and foibles, it's
good that we have choice.
The word from the rolling resistance gang now is that on the European
roads 40 mm tires have lower rolling resistance than 28's depending on surface by as much as 70 watts! That is no longer a choice since you
cannot use normal rim brakes on a 40 mm tire. That requires hydraulic
discs with a 148 mm wide rear and 110 front and at least 12 mm through
axles. You cannot do that with CX V-brakes since the diameter or the tire would interfere with the cross cables. When I ride across cobblestones
with 28's it is like hitting the brakes.
Also, flat mount actuators for 100 mm discs are very specific and very new.
When I ride across cobblestones with 28's it is like hitting the brakes.
On 3/22/2025 5:36 PM, cyclintom wrote:fitted.
On Sat Mar 22 15:44:35 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 3/22/2025 3:13 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Mar 21 13:14:24 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Detach caliper from its mount so it hangs below line.
Slack handlebar clamp at the stem if needed to get the lever
port horizontal.
Push fluid from bottom to top.
Tap caliper to dislodge air bubbles while pushing the fluid.
You're welcome.
Thanks Andrew, but isn't that more complicated than simply bleeding it backwards?
I did discover that the back actuator line wasn't all the way tightened which was leaking air in. I will have to develop the habit of always tightening connectors all the way when they are installed rather than going back after everthing is properly
derailuer. I suppose I will have to find my misplaced pliers to pull the cable since it is a left hande operation and I can't pull hard enough with the longnose pliers.
The rear derailleur is giving me trouble again. Upper and lower limits are set but I can't tighten the shift cable tight enough not to run out of adjustment in the cable tensioner and there's no room to use the cable tightener on that long arm rear
Right. When all else fails, read the manual.
Hose coupler torque is 7nm.
Unlike an auto clutch or brake system, Shimano hydraulic
discs are by design purged bottom to top.
Removing the caliper from its mount lets it fall to a
position lower than the line and also allows you to turn it
and tap it to free air pockets not near the line inlet while
purging fluid.
Where do you find a torgue wrench thet fits an 8 mm open end wrench even if the manual was stupid enough to pretend those are normal and easily available tools?
It's about 5 ft*lbs. It's not critical. But if I wanted to measure it >precisely I'd probably just use a spring scale on a standard wrench. Or
you could use a crow's foot adapter. For precision, align the adapter >parallel to the applied force, or else calculate the proper compensation
for the difference in lever arm. Torque is force * perpendicular distance.
On 22/3/25 08:17, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
This is a Tom thing! Cable disks have niche applications, much like
SO much more finicky than dealing with cable actuated rim brakes!
hydraulic rim brakes, both of which aren’t obsolete but are technological >> dead ends, with the same products being sold.
Cable disks as they aren’t a sealed system, get muck into the callipers, >> which absolutely will do a number on the calliper, my Gravel bike as new
had cable disks, used a few different callipers before I upgraded to
hydraulic.
They require much more maintenance, aka adjusting as the pads wear down,
aren’t as powerful as hydraulics and realistically are rather the
worse of
both worlds.
Assuming the bike has the clearance for 32ish then rim brakes arguably
are
easier to live with as long as it’s a road bike, rim pads have a
remarkably
short lifespan on wet mucky rides! Let alone lack of power and so on.
I am very happy with my gravel bike equipped with cable actuated disc
brakes (TRP Spyre C), 160mm discs, Jagwire semi metallic pads and compressionless housings.
Adjustment is infrequent and easy. Braking performance is fine. Maintainability is easy.
On Fri Mar 21 14:30:55 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
On 3/21/2025 1:56 PM, cyclintom wrote:
You tell me that even though a pro racer who raced europe said exactly the opposite of your idiotic beliefs.
Bullshit, No pro racer ever told you that.
Am I supposed to be impressed by someone who claims to "race" on zwift?
If you don't believe me you're free to contact Chris Robinson. But don't be surprised if he tunes you out after your first stupid comment.
He doesn't suffer fools lightly.
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 21:54:48 GMT, cyclintom <[email protected]>
wrote:
When I ride across cobblestones with 28's it is like hitting the brakes.
Where did you find a cobblestone road in the San Francisco east bay
region? I've never seen such a road, much less ridden on one.
On 3/22/2025 6:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 21:54:48 GMT, cyclintom <[email protected]>
wrote:
When I ride across cobblestones with 28's it is like hitting the brakes.
Where did you find a cobblestone road in the San Francisco east bay
region? I've never seen such a road, much less ridden on one.
He hasn't. He's lying as usual.
zen cycle <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 6:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 21:54:48 GMT, cyclintom <[email protected]>
wrote:
When I ride across cobblestones with 28's it is like hitting the brakes. >>>Where did you find a cobblestone road in the San Francisco east bay
region? I've never seen such a road, much less ridden on one.
He hasn't. He's lying as usual.
Older bits of the docks etc aren’t cobbled? From the Tower in London downstream get progressively newer dock land areas which largely are
cobbles and are thus in places quite touristy and used for filming and so
on.
But San Francisco is old enough for some of that? Though maybe did and gone as guess?
Roger Merriman
On Sat Mar 22 15:44:35 2025 AMuzi wrote:fitted.
On 3/22/2025 3:13 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Mar 21 13:14:24 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Detach caliper from its mount so it hangs below line.
Slack handlebar clamp at the stem if needed to get the lever
port horizontal.
Push fluid from bottom to top.
Tap caliper to dislodge air bubbles while pushing the fluid.
You're welcome.
Thanks Andrew, but isn't that more complicated than simply bleeding it backwards?
I did discover that the back actuator line wasn't all the way tightened which was leaking air in. I will have to develop the habit of always tightening connectors all the way when they are installed rather than going back after everthing is properly
derailuer. I suppose I will have to find my misplaced pliers to pull the cable since it is a left hande operation and I can't pull hard enough with the longnose pliers.
The rear derailleur is giving me trouble again. Upper and lower limits are set but I can't tighten the shift cable tight enough not to run out of adjustment in the cable tensioner and there's no room to use the cable tightener on that long arm rear
Right. When all else fails, read the manual.
Hose coupler torque is 7nm.
Unlike an auto clutch or brake system, Shimano hydraulic
discs are by design purged bottom to top.
Removing the caliper from its mount lets it fall to a
position lower than the line and also allows you to turn it
and tap it to free air pockets not near the line inlet while
purging fluid.
Where do you find a torgue wrench thet fits an 8 mm open end wrench even if the manual was stupid enough to pretend those are normal and easily available tools?
On Fri Mar 21 16:39:35 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Since every system has its own features and foibles, it's
good that we have choice.
The word from the rolling resistance gang now is that on the European roads 40 mm tires have lower rolling resistance than 28's depending on surface by as much as 70 watts! That is no longer a choice since you cannot use normal rim brakes on a 40 mmtire. That requires hydraulic discs with a 148 mm wide rear and 110 front and at least 12 mm through axles. You cannot do that with CX V-brakes since the diameter or the tire would interfere with the cross cables. When I ride across cobblestones with 28'
Also, flat mount actuators for 100 mm discs are very specific and very new.
On 3/22/2025 5:36 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sat Mar 22 15:44:35 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 3/22/2025 3:13 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Mar 21 13:14:24 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Detach caliper from its mount so it hangs below line.
Slack handlebar clamp at the stem if needed to get the
lever
port horizontal.
Push fluid from bottom to top.
Tap caliper to dislodge air bubbles while pushing the
fluid.
You're welcome.
Thanks Andrew, but isn't that more complicated than
simply bleeding it backwards?
I did discover that the back actuator line wasn't all
the way tightened which was leaking air in. I will have
to develop the habit of always tightening connectors all
the way when they are installed rather than going back
after everthing is properly fitted.
The rear derailleur is giving me trouble again. Upper
and lower limits are set but I can't tighten the shift
cable tight enough not to run out of adjustment in the
cable tensioner and there's no room to use the cable
tightener on that long arm rear derailuer. I suppose I
will have to find my misplaced pliers to pull the cable
since it is a left hande operation and I can't pull hard
enough with the longnose pliers.
Right. When all else fails, read the manual.
Hose coupler torque is 7nm.
Unlike an auto clutch or brake system, Shimano hydraulic
discs are by design purged bottom to top.
Removing the caliper from its mount lets it fall to a
position lower than the line and also allows you to turn it
and tap it to free air pockets not near the line inlet while
purging fluid.
Where do you find a torgue wrench thet fits an 8 mm open
end wrench even if the manual was stupid enough to pretend
those are normal and easily available tools?
It's about 5 ft*lbs. It's not critical. But if I wanted to
measure it precisely I'd probably just use a spring scale on
a standard wrench. Or you could use a crow's foot adapter.
For precision, align the adapter parallel to the applied
force, or else calculate the proper compensation for the
difference in lever arm. Torque is force * perpendicular
distance.
zen cycle <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 6:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 21:54:48 GMT, cyclintom <[email protected]>
wrote:
When I ride across cobblestones with 28's it is like hitting the brakes. >>>Where did you find a cobblestone road in the San Francisco east bay
region? I've never seen such a road, much less ridden on one.
He hasn't. He's lying as usual.
Older bits of the docks etc aren’t cobbled? From the Tower in London downstream get progressively newer dock land areas which largely are
cobbles and are thus in places quite touristy and used for filming and so
on.
But San Francisco is old enough for some of that? Though maybe did and gone as guess?
Roger Merriman
On 3/23/2025 1:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 6:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 21:54:48 GMT, cyclintom <[email protected]>
wrote:
When I ride across cobblestones with 28's it is like hitting the brakes. >>>>Where did you find a cobblestone road in the San Francisco east bay
region? I've never seen such a road, much less ridden on one.
He hasn't. He's lying as usual.
Older bits of the docks etc aren’t cobbled? From the Tower in London
downstream get progressively newer dock land areas which largely are
cobbles and are thus in places quite touristy and used for filming and so
on.
But San Francisco is old enough for some of that? Though maybe did and gone >> as guess?
Roger Merriman
Probably, but how would one know?
Paving stone, baked brick or cobbles are normally just
overlaid with asphalt. As are many Roman stone roads. One
sees the original remnants during excavation work or
trenching but otherwise not.
AMuzi <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/23/2025 1:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:Vast majority of Roman roads are grandfathers axe/broom, ie been repaired
zen cycle <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 6:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 21:54:48 GMT, cyclintom <[email protected]>
wrote:
When I ride across cobblestones with 28's it is like hitting the brakes. >>>>>Where did you find a cobblestone road in the San Francisco east bay
region? I've never seen such a road, much less ridden on one.
He hasn't. He's lying as usual.
Older bits of the docks etc aren’t cobbled? From the Tower in London
downstream get progressively newer dock land areas which largely are
cobbles and are thus in places quite touristy and used for filming and so >>> on.
But San Francisco is old enough for some of that? Though maybe did and gone >>> as guess?
Roger Merriman
Probably, but how would one know?
Paving stone, baked brick or cobbles are normally just
overlaid with asphalt. As are many Roman stone roads. One
sees the original remnants during excavation work or
trenching but otherwise not.
and rebuilt X number of times, one of the various myths is that they where stone always, or built always a certain way, one of the of which comes from
a Victorian misreading instructions for a ditch I think it was to mean the
a road.
Some london roads would have cobbles under them though not all, as hard surfaces wasn’t uniform until quite late, a large driver of which was bikes rather than cars.
But the docks do seemed to have been routinely cobbles even as they got bigger as ships did, I assume that San Francisco can like London take large ships still? Or did it move along the coast somewhere?
Roger Merriman
On 3/21/2025 4:17 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/20/2025 4:44 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:This is a Tom thing! Cable disks have niche applications, much like
On 3/20/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I can't say what's going on. The fact that you had to bleed the rear >>>>> brakes backwards but I cured the front brakes which you would think
wouldn't be a problem since it is all vertical hoses was amazing.
Bleeding that brake from top to bottom releases a lot of air bubbles >>>>> after which the disk levers were hard and with about a half way pull >>>>> to lock.
The levers with the bleeding cap off appeared top be full of liquid so >>>>> the levers were full and it couldn't be air trapped somewhere in the >>>>> levers.
but installing a funnel and filling it half way and using the syring >>>>> on the bottom pulled a great deal of air out of the system.
So while the Shimano instructions and most of the videos showed bottom >>>>> to top, bleeding trom top to bottom as one video, made by a woman
mechanic seems to be the only way to get the brake properly bled.
I have done it both ways and all seem to work about the same. However
getting in a hurry and not letting things settle is a problem. This
youtube video I watched is great and this works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLF56banjs
SO much more finicky than dealing with cable actuated rim brakes!
hydraulic rim brakes, both of which aren’t obsolete but are technological >> dead ends, with the same products being sold.
Cable disks as they aren’t a sealed system, get muck into the callipers, >> which absolutely will do a number on the calliper, my Gravel bike as new
had cable disks, used a few different callipers before I upgraded to
hydraulic.
They require much more maintenance, aka adjusting as the pads wear down,
aren’t as powerful as hydraulics and realistically are rather the
worse of
both worlds.
Assuming the bike has the clearance for 32ish then rim brakes arguably
are
easier to live with as long as it’s a road bike, rim pads have a
remarkably
short lifespan on wet mucky rides! Let alone lack of power and so on.
Since every system has its own features and foibles, it's good that we
have choice.
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