• Re: Montana: "Let's make stupidity mandatory!"

    From Rolf Mantel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 20 13:30:12 2025
    Am 17.01.2025 um 23:26 schrieb AMuzi:
    On 1/17/2025 3:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 1/17/2025 1:57 PM, AMuzi wrote:

    " The Earth can only support a finite number of humans...."

    Logically, yes.
    That limit is a much larger number than pessimists have predicted.

    Imminent doom has been wrong repeatedly. Everything was supposed to
    collapse at 4 billion, at 5 billion, at 6 billion, etc. Still waiting.

    The Malthusians ignore human innovation.

    I suppose we could read the specific scientific articles of the day to
    see exactly what they said, as opposed to something like the blaring
    headlines on the front pages of popular magazines. And I'm aware that
    some ingenious breakthroughs (e.g. in food production) have acted as
    Deus Ex Machina to at least temporarily save the day.

    But I suspect those who feel "Everything Will Always Be Fine" were
    interpreting warnings about (say) 6 billion as "... and then the world
    will suddenly end!" More realistic people would be expecting a
    prolonged and very messy gradual failure, probably with a slow initial
    buildup. Which seems to be what we're seeing today.

    We've recently set yet another record for "hottest year since record
    keeping began." Those seem to keep coming. "Everything is fine!"
    skeptics say, "Because I can still make a snowball!!"

    But climate problems are certainly increasing. California wildfires,
    Appalachian hurricanes, African droughts etc. are driven at least in
    part by novel climate changes. That's evidence of a slow initial buildup.

    I expect we'll gradually see more people demanding immigration
    permission, or sneaking in without permission, as conditions worsen in
    certain countries. We may see migration out of certain areas of the
    U.S. as water becomes more and more scarce and expensive, except in
    certain coastal areas, where it will become inconveniently abundant
    due to rising sea levels. Like other changes, that won't be a sudden
    wall of water inundating a city. Instead, it will be "Damn! The
    business district is flooded _again_???" I suspect there will be
    economic consequences, but they will be gradual enough to give
    "plausible deniability" to the skeptics.

    The bigger factors that _may_ give "I told you so" proof are, in my
    mind, the Atlantic Ocean thermal circulation and the unlocking of
    long-trapped arctic methane. Those seem likely to be "tipping point"
    scenarios that will be relatively sudden, self enhancing and
    impossible to reverse.

    But I guess we'll see, if we live long enough.

    Climate change and California wildfires? Pfffft.

    The first Spanish captain who sailed past and didn't anchor there called
    it 'valley of smoke'.  In the 1570s, not last week.

    Sure. Climate change is rarely large enough to create completely new
    hazards but scaling major wildfires (random numbers) from once every 50
    years to 3 times in 10 years is bad enough.

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  • From Rolf Mantel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 20 13:40:55 2025
    Am 18.01.2025 um 15:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
    On 18 Jan 2025 14:15:44 GMT, Roger Merriman <[email protected]> wrote:

    Catrike Ryder <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 18 Jan 2025 08:02:18 GMT, Roger Merriman <[email protected]> wrote:

    AMuzi <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 1/17/2025 9:02 PM, John B. wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 22:01:41 -0300, Shadow <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 07:47:48 +0700, John B. <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 13:18:48 -0300, Shadow <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 08:25:45 -0600, AMuzi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 1/17/2025 5:21 AM, Shadow wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 11:30:14 +0700, John B. <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 14:07:10 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 1/16/2025 12:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/16/2025 10:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 1/16/2025 10:00 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

    In my opinion, the reason that humans rose to our place on the food
    chain is because of our individualistic need to better ourselves and
    our situation.

    Your rabid individualism has obviously stunted your education. Don't
    expect that many will value your totally uneducated opinions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Interpretation varies.

    Mr Tricycle has a point, and a very good one at that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I suggest a test. Put Mr. Tricycle out in the wilderness all alone. I
    predict he won't better himself or his situation. In fact, I predict he
    won't survive long.

    OTOH, human beings working cooperatively have built entire civilizations.

    Your argument sounds so logical... until one actually work with >>>>>>>>>>>> primitive people, the ones the trike man is talking about. And yes I
    have worked with this sort of people. In one case we had to call in
    the Indonesian military to stop a "war" between two villagers over who
    would keep a worn out plastic tarpaulin. Hardly an example of >>>>>>>>>>>> "cooperatively".

    By the way, the military solution was to simplify get out of the >>>>>>>>>>>> helicopter and immediately shoot one of the two fighters. Fight over.

    What faction were the "military" ? Nazis?
    They murdered a citizen in cold blood and didn't solve the >>>>>>>>>>> problem.

    And unless that "primitive person" was a baboon, his IQ was >>>>>>>>>>> probably equal to, or even superior to the "military's"***. Not having
    access to a decent education doesn't make you stupid, it makes you >>>>>>>>>>> ignorant.
    []'s

    *** The military are notoriously stupid. Far more stupid than >>>>>>>>>>> the general population.

    Well, their mission was to prevent a war and further
    slaughter.

    Sounded more like a scuffle between two men.

    Best solution? Maybe not, but we were not the
    officer in the field that day.

    I would have given each one half of the tarpaulin. One cuts. >>>>>>>>> the other chooses. And whoever does not agree gets shot in the knee. >>>>>>>>>

    Military === Stuuuupid.
    []'s

    But of course, if you are correct no one in S.America world be >>>>>>>> speaking Spanish or Portuguese, Adolf Hitler's party would rule >>>>>>>> Europe, the U.S. would still be a colony of G.B. and even more >>>>>>>> examples throughout the history of mankind.

    LOL.
    I don't think our "military" had anything to do with our
    independence. Our very gay prince had a hysterical fit and hollered he >>>>>>> didn't want to go home, and that was that.
    As to Hitler, he was not a party type. He was more of a
    military man. AKA Stuuuupid. Invading Russia in winter is not a good >>>>>>> idea....

    Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of the Soviet Union by Nazi Germany >>>>>> starting on Sunday, 22 June 1941, during World War II.
    Is June winter?


    Napoleon crossed into Russia in mid September. Same result
    as Stalingrad.

    Winter comes, whether you like it or not.


    Indeed I the assumption that Russia would fold and the war would be over by
    time winter came around, was foolish.

    It did have some help in terms of materials with the convoys but Russia >>>> took on and won the majority of the German army without them the war
    outcome probably wouldn?t change but the how and the why and the length >>>> certainly would.

    Roger Merriman

    My old college history professor called it the iffy game. What would
    have happened if the US hadn't known about the Japanese Naval force
    heading to Midway? What would have happened if McClellan had chased
    down Lee when he was retreating from the Battle of Antietam? What
    would have happened at the Battle of the Bulge had the weather not
    cleared and allowed supplies to be dropped in.

    Wars seem to be won or lost as much on chance occurrences as on
    strategic decisions and the strengths of opposing forces.

    Battles maybe but not the outcome of the war, hence the sane Japanese and
    indeed German military trying persuade their political masters to either
    delay or not start the war, Pearl harbour and its plan was because Japan
    couldn’t win the war, conventionally as American industrial capacity and >> oil reserves so Yamamoto hope was this would bring America to the
    negotiations table.

    Midway absolutely shortened the war but not the result.

    Iffy....

    Where some strategies/training that differences where in American’s favour
    such damage control being crew wide basic training, so that US ships
    surviving damage that would of sunk the equivalent Japanese ships due to
    much better and damage control, though as cheeky note, the British carriers >> tended to shrug off due to having armoured deck and belt, though this makes >> other compromises.

    The other being actively conserving skilled and experienced flight crew,
    hence the “The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot” as by then japan had lost its
    experienced pilots, and a technical edge ie the US planes improved quite
    significantly, in contrast to the Japanese aircraft.

    The Zero was a very good fighter airplane, but the US fighters were
    better able to deal with damage.

    Japan would have always reached that point but by not actively working to
    keep skilled pilots and that knowledge alive it came sooner, than later.

    You're suggesting that neither Germany and Japan never had a chance.
    I'm not so sure that's true, but we'll never know for sure.

    Correct, as long as Britain had the will to fight on and the USA was
    willing to support the UK (apparently the appeasement in 1938 gave the
    Brits enough time to survive until German economic collapse from 1941 on).

    I also think Russia has no chance unless the West gives up on supporting Ukraine but the time till Russia's collapse is unknown.

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  • From Shadow@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 20 14:23:06 2025
    On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 09:01:25 +0700, John B. <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In any major war, WW 2 in this case, "career personnel" make up a very
    small percentage of military officers.. Simply because there is no
    need for great numbers in piece time so, prior to war few are trained.

    Brazil has far more senior officers than the US. Example: The
    US has 43 4-star generals. Bolsonaro used them as office boys.
    None of them ever fought an external enemy.
    They retire when they're 50 with full pensions (their salary+a promotion).
    Also any wife or daughter of an officer is entitled to his
    pension if he dies. They only lose it if they re-marry (in case of
    daughters, marry).
    I have some colleagues that never married because they make
    over US $ 25.000 a month from their military pensions. Working as
    doctors they make around US$ 5.000 tops.


    As for, "Mean while in the actual world, a Brazilian division
    acquitted themselves very well", from what I read the Brazilian
    contingents "went to war" with the understand that the U.S.was to
    supply all arms and supplies, right down to their uniforms and that
    they would act under the control of U.S. forces commanders.

    Yes, the commanders were American. But clothing and food was
    supposed to be supplied by the Brazilian military....
    They got the color of the uniforms wrong because the Brazilian
    Military were fascists (still are) and thought they would be fighting
    for Hitler. Hence Brazilian uniforms = German uniforms.
    []'s
    --
    Don't be evil - Google 2004
    We have a new policy - Google 2012
    Google Fuchsia - 2021

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Shadow on Mon Jan 20 11:47:45 2025
    On 1/20/2025 11:23 AM, Shadow wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 09:01:25 +0700, John B. <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In any major war, WW 2 in this case, "career personnel" make up a very
    small percentage of military officers.. Simply because there is no
    need for great numbers in piece time so, prior to war few are trained.

    Brazil has far more senior officers than the US. Example: The
    US has 43 4-star generals. Bolsonaro used them as office boys.
    None of them ever fought an external enemy.
    They retire when they're 50 with full pensions (their salary+a promotion).
    Also any wife or daughter of an officer is entitled to his
    pension if he dies. They only lose it if they re-marry (in case of
    daughters, marry).
    I have some colleagues that never married because they make
    over US $ 25.000 a month from their military pensions. Working as
    doctors they make around US$ 5.000 tops.


    As for, "Mean while in the actual world, a Brazilian division
    acquitted themselves very well", from what I read the Brazilian
    contingents "went to war" with the understand that the U.S.was to
    supply all arms and supplies, right down to their uniforms and that
    they would act under the control of U.S. forces commanders.

    Yes, the commanders were American. But clothing and food was
    supposed to be supplied by the Brazilian military....
    They got the color of the uniforms wrong because the Brazilian
    Military were fascists (still are) and thought they would be fighting
    for Hitler. Hence Brazilian uniforms = German uniforms.
    []'s

    I don't know about Field Grey vs Army Green Khaki for FEB
    uniforms. (you are probably right I just don't know).

    But the history of the period (1939 until the force was
    dispatched) doesn't support any confusion about which side
    they allied:

    "Although Brazil broke off diplomatic relations with Germany
    following that nation’s declaration of war against the
    United States, federal officials in Rio did not immediately
    declare war on the Nazi regime in Berlin. Adolf Hitler
    initially waffled over a plan to attack shipping along the
    Brazilian coast, fearing Brazil, Argentina and Chile would
    ally with the United States. Ultimately, however, the Führer
    did order his submarine force on the offensive. The U-boats
    sank at least a half dozen Brazilian ships, galvanizing its
    populace, which demanded vengeance. Thus Brazil declared war
    on Germany on Aug. 22, 1942."

    https://www.historynet.com/brazilian-soldiers-wwii/

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Shadow@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 21 09:50:13 2025
    On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:40:09 +0700, John B. <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 14:23:06 -0300, Shadow <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 09:01:25 +0700, John B. <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In any major war, WW 2 in this case, "career personnel" make up a very >>>small percentage of military officers.. Simply because there is no
    need for great numbers in piece time so, prior to war few are trained.

    Brazil has far more senior officers than the US. Example: The
    US has 43 4-star generals. Bolsonaro used them as office boys.
    None of them ever fought an external enemy.
    They retire when they're 50 with full pensions (their salary+a >>promotion).
    Also any wife or daughter of an officer is entitled to his
    pension if he dies. They only lose it if they re-marry (in case of >>daughters, marry).
    I have some colleagues that never married because they make
    over US $ 25.000 a month from their military pensions. Working as
    doctors they make around US$ 5.000 tops.


    As for, "Mean while in the actual world, a Brazilian division
    acquitted themselves very well", from what I read the Brazilian >>>contingents "went to war" with the understand that the U.S.was to
    supply all arms and supplies, right down to their uniforms and that
    they would act under the control of U.S. forces commanders.

    Yes, the commanders were American. But clothing and food was
    supposed to be supplied by the Brazilian military....
    They got the color of the uniforms wrong because the Brazilian >>Military were fascists (still are) and thought they would be fighting
    for Hitler. Hence Brazilian uniforms = German uniforms.
    []'s
    Not to comment on numbers of Brazilian Officers but the idea that
    Brazil was planning on supplying a military unit half the world away
    when the U.S. was already supplying a much larger group in the same
    location is just plain silly. Here the U.S. is with a much larger and
    fully operational supply system and Brazil isn't going to utilize it?

    In fact, the largest problem in any military operation isn't
    solders... it is supply. It's easy to move the troops, just chuck them
    out of an airplane, but what do you do at supper time?

    Brazil agreed to allow the US to build a Naval Base in Natal,
    in exchange for the US financing the "Companhia Siderurgica
    Nacional".

    //Because of its strategic position (Natal is one of the cities in
    Brazil nearest to Western Europe and Africa, especially Dakar,
    Senegal), an American air base was built in a suburb of Natal named
    Parnamirim during World War II, as part of the so-called Operation
    Rainbow. This base provided support for allied troops fighting in
    north Africa. Thousands of American soldiers were sent to Natal. Their
    presence left traces in the culture of the city. The city also held
    the Potenji Conference, which took place right after the Casablanca
    Conference and defined the active participation of Brazil in the war,
    being the only Latin American country to send troops overseas to fight
    in Europe. //

    It was about supply. The Americans used a base in Brazil to
    supply Brazilian soldiers in Southern Europe .... because our military wouldn't.
    PS The base was returned to Brazil in 1946. There are no
    American bases in Brazil.
    []'s
    --
    Don't be evil - Google 2004
    We have a new policy - Google 2012
    Google Fuchsia - 2021

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Shadow on Tue Jan 21 09:04:42 2025
    On 1/21/2025 6:50 AM, Shadow wrote:
    On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:40:09 +0700, John B. <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 14:23:06 -0300, Shadow <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 09:01:25 +0700, John B. <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In any major war, WW 2 in this case, "career personnel" make up a very >>>> small percentage of military officers.. Simply because there is no
    need for great numbers in piece time so, prior to war few are trained.

    Brazil has far more senior officers than the US. Example: The
    US has 43 4-star generals. Bolsonaro used them as office boys.
    None of them ever fought an external enemy.
    They retire when they're 50 with full pensions (their salary+a
    promotion).
    Also any wife or daughter of an officer is entitled to his
    pension if he dies. They only lose it if they re-marry (in case of
    daughters, marry).
    I have some colleagues that never married because they make
    over US $ 25.000 a month from their military pensions. Working as
    doctors they make around US$ 5.000 tops.


    As for, "Mean while in the actual world, a Brazilian division
    acquitted themselves very well", from what I read the Brazilian
    contingents "went to war" with the understand that the U.S.was to
    supply all arms and supplies, right down to their uniforms and that
    they would act under the control of U.S. forces commanders.

    Yes, the commanders were American. But clothing and food was
    supposed to be supplied by the Brazilian military....
    They got the color of the uniforms wrong because the Brazilian
    Military were fascists (still are) and thought they would be fighting
    for Hitler. Hence Brazilian uniforms = German uniforms.
    []'s
    Not to comment on numbers of Brazilian Officers but the idea that
    Brazil was planning on supplying a military unit half the world away
    when the U.S. was already supplying a much larger group in the same
    location is just plain silly. Here the U.S. is with a much larger and
    fully operational supply system and Brazil isn't going to utilize it?

    In fact, the largest problem in any military operation isn't
    solders... it is supply. It's easy to move the troops, just chuck them
    out of an airplane, but what do you do at supper time?

    Brazil agreed to allow the US to build a Naval Base in Natal,
    in exchange for the US financing the "Companhia Siderurgica
    Nacional".

    //Because of its strategic position (Natal is one of the cities in
    Brazil nearest to Western Europe and Africa, especially Dakar,
    Senegal), an American air base was built in a suburb of Natal named Parnamirim during World War II, as part of the so-called Operation
    Rainbow. This base provided support for allied troops fighting in
    north Africa. Thousands of American soldiers were sent to Natal. Their presence left traces in the culture of the city. The city also held
    the Potenji Conference, which took place right after the Casablanca Conference and defined the active participation of Brazil in the war,
    being the only Latin American country to send troops overseas to fight
    in Europe. //

    It was about supply. The Americans used a base in Brazil to
    supply Brazilian soldiers in Southern Europe .... because our military wouldn't.
    PS The base was returned to Brazil in 1946. There are no
    American bases in Brazil.
    []'s

    Sorta right but one division from Brasil was a mere rounding
    error among the gargantuan volume of Allied supply and
    logistics, not a prime motive.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    [email protected]
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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