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  • Is 45K a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir

    From Charles Longley@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 26 11:19:20 2023
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 26 12:57:09 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie
    The useful load new was about 496 pounds, looks like the tail boom was broken and things changed. I think you need to take a few other things into consideration. If you can fly it and be comfortable with the payload then you might just consider making an
    offer. OBTP

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  • From Mark Mocho@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 26 12:27:12 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 12:19:22 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie

    A 441 lb. payload pretty much puts it in the "priceless" category.

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  • From Charles Longley@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 26 13:10:55 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie
    The useful load new was about 496 pounds, looks like the tail boom was broken and things changed. I think you need to take a few other things into consideration. If you can fly it and be comfortable with the payload then you might just consider making
    an offer. OBTP
    Bob,

    I am not looking to buy it but to sell it for the club if we decide to upgrade. You are correct it does have some damage history adding weight.

    Charlie

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 26 13:59:15 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:10:57 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie
    The useful load new was about 496 pounds, looks like the tail boom was broken and things changed. I think you need to take a few other things into consideration. If you can fly it and be comfortable with the payload then you might just consider
    making an offer. OBTP
    Bob,

    I am not looking to buy it but to sell it for the club if we decide to upgrade. You are correct it does have some damage history adding weight.

    Charlie
    Where are you located?

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  • From Charles Longley@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 26 14:08:06 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:59:17 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:10:57 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie
    The useful load new was about 496 pounds, looks like the tail boom was broken and things changed. I think you need to take a few other things into consideration. If you can fly it and be comfortable with the payload then you might just consider
    making an offer. OBTP
    Bob,

    I am not looking to buy it but to sell it for the club if we decide to upgrade. You are correct it does have some damage history adding weight.

    Charlie
    Where are you located?
    Just north of Seattle.

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 26 15:14:00 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:08:09 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:59:17 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:10:57 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie
    The useful load new was about 496 pounds, looks like the tail boom was broken and things changed. I think you need to take a few other things into consideration. If you can fly it and be comfortable with the payload then you might just consider
    making an offer. OBTP
    Bob,

    I am not looking to buy it but to sell it for the club if we decide to upgrade. You are correct it does have some damage history adding weight.

    Charlie
    Where are you located?
    Just north of Seattle.
    Right! ok, that is not that bad for a two place glass trainer that many clubs can use. Our club has a very similar ship that makes $$$$ for us. Try replacing that ship for equal bucks and see what you get. OBTP

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  • From Bill Tisdale@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 26 16:23:01 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 6:14:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:08:09 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:59:17 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:10:57 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie
    The useful load new was about 496 pounds, looks like the tail boom was broken and things changed. I think you need to take a few other things into consideration. If you can fly it and be comfortable with the payload then you might just consider
    making an offer. OBTP
    Bob,

    I am not looking to buy it but to sell it for the club if we decide to upgrade. You are correct it does have some damage history adding weight.

    Charlie
    Where are you located?
    Just north of Seattle.
    Right! ok, that is not that bad for a two place glass trainer that many clubs can use. Our club has a very similar ship that makes $$$$ for us. Try replacing that ship for equal bucks and see what you get. OBTP

    From reading in the thread, $45K seems reasonable, especially considering the finish is poly and not gel coat, and assuming as much of the the old gel coat as possible was removed. I would also consider the number of hours on the glider and how close to
    the next life extension inspection. I think those were due every 3000hrs up to 9K and then every 1000hrs up to12K?

    Bill

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  • From John Foster@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 26 18:38:48 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:23:03 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 6:14:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:08:09 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:59:17 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:10:57 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie
    The useful load new was about 496 pounds, looks like the tail boom was broken and things changed. I think you need to take a few other things into consideration. If you can fly it and be comfortable with the payload then you might just
    consider making an offer. OBTP
    Bob,

    I am not looking to buy it but to sell it for the club if we decide to upgrade. You are correct it does have some damage history adding weight.

    Charlie
    Where are you located?
    Just north of Seattle.
    Right! ok, that is not that bad for a two place glass trainer that many clubs can use. Our club has a very similar ship that makes $$$$ for us. Try replacing that ship for equal bucks and see what you get. OBTP
    From reading in the thread, $45K seems reasonable, especially considering the finish is poly and not gel coat, and assuming as much of the the old gel coat as possible was removed. I would also consider the number of hours on the glider and how close
    to the next life extension inspection. I think those were due every 3000hrs up to 9K and then every 1000hrs up to12K?

    Bill

    The instruments in it also affect its value. Keep that in mind as well.

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 26 19:03:55 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 7:23:03 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 6:14:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:08:09 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:59:17 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:10:57 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie
    The useful load new was about 496 pounds, looks like the tail boom was broken and things changed. I think you need to take a few other things into consideration. If you can fly it and be comfortable with the payload then you might just
    consider making an offer. OBTP
    Bob,

    I am not looking to buy it but to sell it for the club if we decide to upgrade. You are correct it does have some damage history adding weight.

    Charlie
    Where are you located?
    Just north of Seattle.
    Right! ok, that is not that bad for a two place glass trainer that many clubs can use. Our club has a very similar ship that makes $$$$ for us. Try replacing that ship for equal bucks and see what you get. OBTP
    From reading in the thread, $45K seems reasonable, especially considering the finish is poly and not gel coat, and assuming as much of the the old gel coat as possible was removed. I would also consider the number of hours on the glider and how close
    to the next life extension inspection. I think those were due every 3000hrs up to 9K and then every 1000hrs up to12K?

    Bill

    You didn't mention canopy condition, or if it has a Standard Airworthiness Certificate, tail wheel mod, rear seat gear handle mod, or the disc brake mod, let alone instrumentation. All of those will affect the price in addition to the PU paint
    finish. Check the original ex factory weight & balance sheets. The original total
    payload was probably more like 506 Lbs + with each seat limited to 242 Lbs , plus
    22 Lbs in the baggage compartment and then any extra as water ballast. I have
    seen as high as 525+ Lbs. My guess is that the broken tail boom didn't add all of that
    65-85 Lbs of extra weight. I would think that there are either other repairs or the PU paint
    went over the original gel-coat, or there was a lot of filler used after the gel-coat was
    ground off. FWIW, all of that weight gain brings the useful load down to what a new
    NDH Twin II would have. My brother and I have imported 7 of these to the USA from Europe.
    There are a lot of things that will factor into the price. Demand is a big factor. Right now,
    the USA market seems to be at a shaky equilibrium. It seems like everyone has what they
    need at the moment, so people will only be motivated to buy if they see it as a great deal
    (low price), or if they suddenly experience a catastrophic loss and need to replace a Twin
    ASAP. There are a lot of moving parts to a fair market evaluation right now.

    Mike Opitz
    RO


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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 27 14:05:59 2023
    On what Mike said below, I agree, but at the same time I don't see many G-103 coming up for sale in Europe that are attractive in terms of Weight & Balance, condition, price, etc. The fleet is getting old and tired, and as we loose ships in the US, there
    will be less and less used aircraft to replace them with. I think almost anything that is airworthy with a useful load of 440 lbs or better, a decent 7/10 finish or better, and a working trailer is arguably worth $40k or better. If your club cracks up a
    glider, where are you going to find a replacement other than to call Mike or rebuild a Schweizer 2-33. I envy clubs with multi-generational experience repairing and refurbishing gliders and working with glass.

    - Chris Schrader

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There are a lot of moving parts to a fair market evaluation right now.
    Mike Opitz
    RO


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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jan 29 04:40:27 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:10:57 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    My club is looking at upgrading the fleet. Just seeking opinion. Would $45,000 be a reasonable price for a Grob 103 Twin Astir? It’s in reasonable shape with PU paint, a serviceable trailer and a 441 lb payload.

    Charlie
    The useful load new was about 496 pounds, looks like the tail boom was broken and things changed. I think you need to take a few other things into consideration. If you can fly it and be comfortable with the payload then you might just consider
    making an offer. OBTP
    Bob,

    I am not looking to buy it but to sell it for the club if we decide to upgrade. You are correct it does have some damage history adding weight.

    Charlie
    FWIW. the same ship that we use has a less payload than yours, we use it weekly as it was provided by a generous club member, 165 flights last year in our Grob, it made money. We are looking to replace ours as well, inquired about a 21, almost three year
    waiting list, I guess all manufacturers are in the same boat. OBTP

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  • From Nicholas Kennedy@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 29 08:42:09 2023
    I bought a Grob Twin Astir from ABQ soaring club back in 2008.

    It flew straight and would climb well at max gross weight.

    I had only had it a few weeks when I took it to Parowan Regional 8 Contest with my brother and his son, 2 newly minted glider pilots, both experienced sailboat racers/winners.

    We got really lucky and had 2 very low saves off the deck in that contest.

    I installed a CAI 302 and 303 and had SeeYou mobile running on a Ipaq 4700, worked great.

    Wouda had a perfect 7000 pt score total but the Air Force decided to pull some undercover BS and they tainted the scores one day, fuckers.

    https://members.ssa.org/ContestResults.asp?contestId=308&ContestDetailId=3733&ContestName=Region+9+Contest

    We had alot of fun in the plane, gave ALOT of rides with it in Telluride.
    We built a backseat to put you upright and used the rudders alot to turn it.

    Flew it all over the West. At 17.5 with 2 fat guys in it, the Astir would really go!
    Great aircraft!!

    Nick
    T

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  • From Charles Longley@21:1/5 to Nicholas Kennedy on Wed Jun 7 07:49:53 2023
    On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 8:42:11 AM UTC-8, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:
    I bought a Grob Twin Astir from ABQ soaring club back in 2008.

    It flew straight and would climb well at max gross weight.

    I had only had it a few weeks when I took it to Parowan Regional 8 Contest with my brother and his son, 2 newly minted glider pilots, both experienced sailboat racers/winners.

    We got really lucky and had 2 very low saves off the deck in that contest.

    I installed a CAI 302 and 303 and had SeeYou mobile running on a Ipaq 4700, worked great.

    Wouda had a perfect 7000 pt score total but the Air Force decided to pull some undercover BS and they tainted the scores one day, fuckers.

    https://members.ssa.org/ContestResults.asp?contestId=308&ContestDetailId=3733&ContestName=Region+9+Contest

    We had alot of fun in the plane, gave ALOT of rides with it in Telluride.
    We built a backseat to put you upright and used the rudders alot to turn it.

    Flew it all over the West. At 17.5 with 2 fat guys in it, the Astir would really go!
    Great aircraft!!

    Nick
    T
    This Grob 103 is probably going to go on the market within the next week or so. My club is just finishing up the acquisition of a replacement glider. 2,442.1 TT, current annual, 441 lb payload, damage history in the late 80's that didn't require a 337.
    PU paint by Yankee Composites in 2007 that's still in good shape. Hydraulic disc brake.

    Contact me at for to 5 three 67 ate 7 ate ate if interested or for more info.

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  • From Charles Longley@21:1/5 to Charles Longley on Sat Jul 8 14:34:52 2023
    On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:49:54 AM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
    On Sunday, January 29, 2023 at 8:42:11 AM UTC-8, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:
    I bought a Grob Twin Astir from ABQ soaring club back in 2008.

    It flew straight and would climb well at max gross weight.

    I had only had it a few weeks when I took it to Parowan Regional 8 Contest with my brother and his son, 2 newly minted glider pilots, both experienced sailboat racers/winners.

    We got really lucky and had 2 very low saves off the deck in that contest.

    I installed a CAI 302 and 303 and had SeeYou mobile running on a Ipaq 4700, worked great.

    Wouda had a perfect 7000 pt score total but the Air Force decided to pull some undercover BS and they tainted the scores one day, fuckers.

    https://members.ssa.org/ContestResults.asp?contestId=308&ContestDetailId=3733&ContestName=Region+9+Contest

    We had alot of fun in the plane, gave ALOT of rides with it in Telluride. We built a backseat to put you upright and used the rudders alot to turn it.

    Flew it all over the West. At 17.5 with 2 fat guys in it, the Astir would really go!
    Great aircraft!!

    Nick
    T
    This Grob 103 is probably going to go on the market within the next week or so. My club is just finishing up the acquisition of a replacement glider. 2,442.1 TT, current annual, 441 lb payload, damage history in the late 80's that didn't require a 337.
    PU paint by Yankee Composites in 2007 that's still in good shape. Hydraulic disc brake.

    Contact me at for to 5 three 67 ate 7 ate ate if interested or for more info.
    Grob 103 Twin Astir N2886A is for sale. $48,500 OBO. I am going to put it on Wings & Wheels this weekend.

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