On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 7:10:08 PM UTC-6, Mark Mocho wrote:it "will glide." I'd be more concerned about how well it will float.
"Aura Aerospace is setting their sights higher, announcing the Ranger with range to fly half way around the world."
Jeez! The crap some people dream up. Just where are they going to hold all that "sustainable jet fuel" that allows for 22 hours of flight time? But don't worry, they say that if it runs out of fuel between their "New York to Adelaide Australia" flight,
Well you know if you ignore basic physics and pass the crack pipe around it just might work…
"Aura Aerospace is setting their sights higher, announcing the Ranger with range to fly half way around the world."it "will glide." I'd be more concerned about how well it will float.
Jeez! The crap some people dream up. Just where are they going to hold all that "sustainable jet fuel" that allows for 22 hours of flight time? But don't worry, they say that if it runs out of fuel between their "New York to Adelaide Australia" flight,
Maybe they should try a little testing before doing a manned flight. He went to full throttle and it instantly burst into flames.
Nah...
They should put the promoters and designers on board for the first
flights. If they won't climb aboard, cut the funding.
Dan
5J
On 12/21/22 18:48, kinsell wrote:
Maybe they should try a little testing before doing a manned flight. He went to full throttle and it instantly burst into flames.
On 12/21/22 6:37 PM, Charles Longley wrote:flight, it "will glide." I'd be more concerned about how well it will float.
On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 7:10:08 PM UTC-6, Mark Mocho wrote:
"Aura Aerospace is setting their sights higher, announcing the Ranger with range to fly half way around the world."
Jeez! The crap some people dream up. Just where are they going to hold all that "sustainable jet fuel" that allows for 22 hours of flight time? But don't worry, they say that if it runs out of fuel between their "New York to Adelaide Australia"
Could be the same technology used in motorgliders. OBTPWell you know if you ignore basic physics and pass the crack pipe around it just might work…Maybe they should try a little testing before doing a manned flight. He
went to full throttle and it instantly burst into flames.
On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:48:33 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:flight, it "will glide." I'd be more concerned about how well it will float. >>> Well you know if you ignore basic physics and pass the crack pipe around it just might work…
On 12/21/22 6:37 PM, Charles Longley wrote:
On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 7:10:08 PM UTC-6, Mark Mocho wrote:
"Aura Aerospace is setting their sights higher, announcing the Ranger with range to fly half way around the world."
Jeez! The crap some people dream up. Just where are they going to hold all that "sustainable jet fuel" that allows for 22 hours of flight time? But don't worry, they say that if it runs out of fuel between their "New York to Adelaide Australia"
Maybe they should try a little testing before doing a manned flight. HeCould be the same technology used in motorgliders. OBTP
went to full throttle and it instantly burst into flames.
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 11:28:21 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:Well, Hank - that's where the money in US corporations is (unfortunately)! I am an engineer and have worked and still work for large companies - ask me how I know. :-{
Nah...
They should put the promoters and designers on board for the first
flights. If they won't climb aboard, cut the funding.
DanAll a manifestation of too few people taking science class. Too many marketing degrees and too few scientists.
5J
On 12/21/22 18:48, kinsell wrote:
Maybe they should try a little testing before doing a manned flight. He went to full throttle and it instantly burst into flames.
UH
https://dronexl.co/2022/07/28/passenger-drone-evtol-catches-fire/
Having a little trouble with the Guardian, Aura Aerospace is setting
their sights higher, announcing the Ranger with range to fly half way
around the world:
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/aura-ranger-long-range-evtol/
Hope it works better than the first one.
All a manifestation of too few people taking science class. Too many marketing degrees and too few scientists.
UHWell, Hank - that's where the money in US corporations is (unfortunately)! I am an engineer and have worked and still work for large companies - ask me how I know. :-{
"Hope is not a strategy."
On 12/21/2022 7:29 PM, kinsell wrote:5d82db6e49-dafe86c45f-50854323
https://dronexl.co/2022/07/28/passenger-drone-evtol-catches-fire/
Having a little trouble with the Guardian, Aura Aerospace is setting
their sights higher, announcing the Ranger with range to fly half way
around the world:
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/aura-ranger-long-range-evtol/
Hope it works better than the first one.
How bout this one: https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2022-09-01/beta-evtol-aircraft-battery-catches-fire-while-awaiting-ground-testing?utm_source=Electric+VTOL+News&utm_campaign=dafe86c45f-eVTOL+eNews%2C+Sept+29%2C+2017_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_
On 12/22/22 7:46 PM, Dave Nadler wrote:5d82db6e49-dafe86c45f-50854323
On 12/21/2022 7:29 PM, kinsell wrote:
https://dronexl.co/2022/07/28/passenger-drone-evtol-catches-fire/
Having a little trouble with the Guardian, Aura Aerospace is setting their sights
higher, announcing the Ranger with range to fly half way around the world: >>>
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/aura-ranger-long-range-evtol/
Hope it works better than the first one.
How bout this one:
https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2022-09-01/beta-evtol-aircraft-battery-catches-fire-while-awaiting-ground-testing?utm_source=Electric+VTOL+News&utm_campaign=dafe86c45f-eVTOL+eNews%2C+Sept+29%2C+2017_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_
The Alice thingy mentioned in that article rose from the ashes like a modern day Phoenix,
and recently had an eight minute test flight. Beat the pants off the three minute flight
of the Electro-Beaver. Whatever happened to the Electro-Beaver, anyway?
However, same day as the Alice test flight, they announced projected range is now about
half of their earlier figures, and they slipped their schedule by three years. Turns out
the miracle advancements in battery technology haven't been showing up on schedule. Used
to be, battery miracles were always two years away, now it's slipped to three years.
The battery fire doesn't seem like the big news for Beta Technologies:
they have orders for several hundred of it's Alia 250 aircraft from UPS
and other companies, and the Alia 250 has made a number of cross-country trips, including one of 5 days and 876 mile.
https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2022-12-19/beta-makes-second-cross-country-evtol-flight-charging-infrastructure
All a manifestation of too few people taking science class. Too many marketing degrees and too few scientists.
And if it isn't bad enough, with MBAs taking precedence over engineering, just watch what happens with politicians and unicorn herders thinking they can repeal the Laws of Physics and Thermodynamics.UHWell, Hank - that's where the money in US corporations is (unfortunately)! I am an engineer and have worked and still work for large companies - ask me how I know. :-{
"Hope is not a strategy."
On 12/23/2022 12:01 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
The battery fire doesn't seem like the big news for Beta Technologies: they have orders
for several hundred of it's Alia 250 aircraft from UPS and other companies, and the Alia
250 has made a number of cross-country trips, including one of 5 days and 876 mile.
https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2022-12-19/beta-makes-second-cross-country-evtol-flight-charging-infrastructure
While the XC flight is impressive, ask a few questions:
1) the pictures show lift props not installed and area faired;
much less drag (and maybe weight) than expected configuration?
2) What was the weight at which they flew, and payload?
3) Has it done vertical take-offs through transitions? What is the expected range given
high energy use during vertical flight?
They use batteries, electronic controllers, and electric motors; so,
yes, it is "the same technology used in motorgliders". There are huge differences in the battery size, the complexity of the controller to
operate 10+ motors, and the reliability needed for a primary lift and attitude control system, instead the relatively simple auxiliary
propulsion system needed for a motorglider. It's a lot harder to build a
safe helicopter than a safe self-launcher, regardless of the power choice.
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:26:18 PM UTC-8, Mark Mocho wrote:arrogance was palpable in the office. A few years later production was off shore and almost no new devices were developed. HP went on to other products.
And if it isn't bad enough, with MBAs taking precedence over engineering, just watch what happens with politicians and unicorn herders thinking they can repeal the Laws of Physics and Thermodynamics.All a manifestation of too few people taking science class. Too many marketing degrees and too few scientists.Well, Hank - that's where the money in US corporations is (unfortunately)! I am an engineer and have worked and still work for large companies - ask me how I know. :-{
UH
"Hope is not a strategy."
Perhaps a bit of MBA and engineering working together is the way to go. I was there when HP's calculator division went belly up because it was run 100% by engineers and would NOT listen to their MBA's about what the market wanted. The engineers
Are we talking about RPN here? Most engineers of my vintage will knowarrogance was palpable in the office. A few years later production was off shore and almost no new devices were developed. HP went on to other products.
what I'm talking about but I don't want to spell it out for fear of
being called "racist". Again... I never could get used to that. RPN...
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 07:38, Craig Reinholt wrote:
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:26:18 PM UTC-8, Mark Mocho wrote:
And if it isn't bad enough, with MBAs taking precedence over engineering, just watch what happens with politicians and unicorn herders thinking they can repeal the Laws of Physics and Thermodynamics.All a manifestation of too few people taking science class. Too many marketing degrees and too few scientists.Well, Hank - that's where the money in US corporations is (unfortunately)! I am an engineer and have worked and still work for large companies - ask me how I know. :-{
UH
"Hope is not a strategy."
Perhaps a bit of MBA and engineering working together is the way to go. I was there when HP's calculator division went belly up because it was run 100% by engineers and would NOT listen to their MBA's about what the market wanted. The engineers
Nah...
They should put the promoters and designers on board for the first
flights. If they won't climb aboard, cut the funding.
Dan
5J
On 12/21/22 18:48, kinsell wrote:
Maybe they should try a little testing before doing a manned flight.
He went to full throttle and it instantly burst into flames.
A B-52 can easily fly with a couple (or more!) engines out.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:15:34 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:arrogance was palpable in the office. A few years later production was off shore and almost no new devices were developed. HP went on to other products.
Are we talking about RPN here? Most engineers of my vintage will know
what I'm talking about but I don't want to spell it out for fear of
being called "racist". Again... I never could get used to that. RPN...
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 07:38, Craig Reinholt wrote:
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:26:18 PM UTC-8, Mark Mocho wrote: >>>>>> All a manifestation of too few people taking science class. Too many marketing degrees and too few scientists.
And if it isn't bad enough, with MBAs taking precedence over engineering, just watch what happens with politicians and unicorn herders thinking they can repeal the Laws of Physics and Thermodynamics.Well, Hank - that's where the money in US corporations is (unfortunately)! I am an engineer and have worked and still work for large companies - ask me how I know. :-{
UH
"Hope is not a strategy."
Perhaps a bit of MBA and engineering working together is the way to go. I was there when HP's calculator division went belly up because it was run 100% by engineers and would NOT listen to their MBA's about what the market wanted. The engineers
LOL. No. RPN had nothing to do with it. Product features, demographics of the target markets, and pricing to name just a few factors caused the demise of the calculator division. TI listened to the broad market and HP didn't.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
A B-52 can easily fly with a couple (or more!) engines out.
Speaking about the B-52, HP created a plug-in module for their HP41C calculator to continue nav and "other" functions in case the onboard systems died for some reason. <<<
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:48:31 PM UTC-8, Craig Reinholt wrote:
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
A B-52 can easily fly with a couple (or more!) engines out.
Speaking about the B-52, HP created a plug-in module for their HP41C calculator to continue nav and "other" functions in case the onboard systems died for some reason. <<<
Now that I ponder that 40+ year old memory, I believe the entire 41C was reworked and it wasn't just a module.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
A B-52 can easily fly with a couple (or more!) engines out.
Speaking about the B-52, HP created a plug-in module for their HP41C calculator to continue nav and "other" functions in case the onboard systems died for some reason.
On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:15:34 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:arrogance was palpable in the office. A few years later production was off shore and almost no new devices were developed. HP went on to other products.
Are we talking about RPN here? Most engineers of my vintage will know
what I'm talking about but I don't want to spell it out for fear of
being called "racist". Again... I never could get used to that. RPN...
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 07:38, Craig Reinholt wrote:
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:26:18 PM UTC-8, Mark Mocho wrote:
And if it isn't bad enough, with MBAs taking precedence over engineering, just watch what happens with politicians and unicorn herders thinking they can repeal the Laws of Physics and Thermodynamics.All a manifestation of too few people taking science class. Too many marketing degrees and too few scientists.Well, Hank - that's where the money in US corporations is (unfortunately)! I am an engineer and have worked and still work for large companies - ask me how I know. :-{
UH
"Hope is not a strategy."
Perhaps a bit of MBA and engineering working together is the way to go. I was there when HP's calculator division went belly up because it was run 100% by engineers and would NOT listen to their MBA's about what the market wanted. The engineers
LOL. No. RPN had nothing to do with it. Product features, demographics of the target markets, and pricing to name just a few factors caused the demise of the calculator division. TI listened to the broad market and HP didn't.Ti did and still does make a crap calculator compared to anything HP put out. I guess there are some things you just can't make a self respecting engineer do :-). I still have a functioning HP 67 (complete with card reader) sitting here. Also an HP 100LX
On 12/23/2022 6:11 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:https://lilium.com/jet
On 12/23/2022 12:01 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
The battery fire doesn't seem like the big news for Beta Technologies: they have orders
for several hundred of it's Alia 250 aircraft from UPS and other companies, and the Alia
250 has made a number of cross-country trips, including one of 5 days and 876 mile.
https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2022-12-19/beta-makes-second-cross-country-evtol-flight-charging-infrastructure
While the XC flight is impressive, ask a few questions:
1) the pictures show lift props not installed and area faired;
much less drag (and maybe weight) than expected configuration?
2) What was the weight at which they flew, and payload?
3) Has it done vertical take-offs through transitions? What is the expected range given
high energy use during vertical flight?
The article says the current prototype is configured as CTOL - conventional takeoff and
landing - and will be certified first. The second prototype is configured as a VTOL, and
has made several test flights. It's certification will be about two years after the CTOL,
as I recall.
I didn't see (and didn't look for) any detailed performance numbers. My impression is the
XC was important as a "meet and greet" trip to show people it could operate like a gas
engine aircraft at multiple airports with traffic and ATC, and that there were chargers at
the airports that could recharge it quickly.
Check out their many flights using FlightAware and the tail number N250UT.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
https://lilium.com/jet
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
On 12/21/2022 7:29 PM, kinsell wrote:5d82db6e49-dafe86c45f-50854323
https://dronexl.co/2022/07/28/passenger-drone-evtol-catches-fire/
Having a little trouble with the Guardian, Aura Aerospace is setting
their sights higher, announcing the Ranger with range to fly half way around the world:
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/aura-ranger-long-range-evtol/
Hope it works better than the first one.How bout this one: https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2022-09-01/beta-evtol-aircraft-battery-catches-fire-while-awaiting-ground-testing?utm_source=Electric+VTOL+News&utm_campaign=dafe86c45f-eVTOL+eNews%2C+Sept+29%2C+2017_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_
On 12/23/22 8:25 PM, Mark Mocho wrote:A paradigm shift might change the game, though AFAIK none have yet been constructed in sizes to power a vehicle.
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.It will be a lot of batteries they're hauling. 36 small ducted fans are
going to be sucking a bunch of power, and making quite a racket.
Took forever for these guys to demonstrate a transition from vertical to horizontal flight, plus they burned up one of their prototypes a while
back. The eVTOL market is way too crowded for these guys to survive.
IMMHO.
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit.
Did I miss something?
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit.
Did I miss something?
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.
Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
Dan
5J
On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit. >> Did I miss something?
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 11:18:17 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
Dan
5J
On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit. >>>> Did I miss something?
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.
Hello - they're doing it already!
Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
Dan
5J
On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit. >> Did I miss something?
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:18:17 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
Dan
5J
On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit. >>>> Did I miss something?
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.
Hi, I'm HAL, how can I assist you? No, I won't open the outer door....l....
On 12/24/2022 3:12 PM, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 11:18:17 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
Dan
5J
On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote: >>>>> I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a
cockpit.
Did I miss something?
Dan
5J
On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
https://lilium.com/jet
Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.
Hello - they're doing it already!
Yep, and not just the airliners. You can buy a Garmin "Save my ass"
system that will detect you are incapacitated, then it'll find a
landable airport it can get to, then go there, make radio calls, and land.
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