• Re: "Gliders With Motors" Wings &Wheels

    From Herbert Kilian@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Sep 8 13:29:03 2022
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 3:15:32 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    Foaming at the mouth again, Ricky-Bobbie? Watch your blood pressure, old people are prone to strokes and heart desease. Could also affect your medical. Wishing you nothing but the best!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Herbert Kilian on Thu Sep 8 13:38:53 2022
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 4:29:07 PM UTC-4, Herbert Kilian wrote:
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 3:15:32 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    Foaming at the mouth again, Ricky-Bobbie? Watch your blood pressure, old people are prone to strokes and heart desease. Could also affect your medical. Wishing you nothing but the best!

    Herbie, the truth hurts! We all will end up in the same place, well, maybe not it might just be very hot where you are headed, too much heat from all those motorglider exhaust. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 8 13:15:30 2022
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jfitch@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Sep 8 16:01:59 2022
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a trailer and a
    Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".

    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to jfitch on Fri Sep 9 05:06:31 2022
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a trailer and a
    Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".

    Now Fitch, maybe the article should be "Humble Beginnings", and have a picture of that beautiful Pawnee with a glider in tow, I am 100% sure that you remember and cherish the days of past when you were thankful to that Pawnee and tow pilot.
    The offer still stands, all motorglder pilots are welcome here in Vero Beach for our spring safari, if that motor blows or you need help getting into the air that Pawnee will be there providing a tow so that you may still enjoy your time in the air. Old
    Bob, The Purist















    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Herbert Kilian@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Sep 9 07:54:01 2022
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:06:36 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a trailer and a
    Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".
    Now Fitch, maybe the article should be "Humble Beginnings", and have a picture of that beautiful Pawnee with a glider in tow, I am 100% sure that you remember and cherish the days of past when you were thankful to that Pawnee and tow pilot.
    The offer still stands, all motorglder pilots are welcome here in Vero Beach for our spring safari, if that motor blows or you need help getting into the air that Pawnee will be there providing a tow so that you may still enjoy your time in the air.
    Old Bob, The Purist

    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    As an immigrant (better check my papers, Ricky-Bobbie) to this country to help the ailing US ecomomy, I have yet to make my first winch launch over here. All my 500+ instructional and following flights were made on the winch in Germany. Also operated the
    winch with up to 70 starts per day. No Pawnees, no motorgliders. I still relish releasing at 1,000-1,500' from tow and thermal away. Now that's pure soaring, the purist would know nothing about it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Herbert Kilian on Fri Sep 9 11:16:06 2022
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:54:03 AM UTC-4, Herbert Kilian wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:06:36 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a trailer and
    a Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".
    Now Fitch, maybe the article should be "Humble Beginnings", and have a picture of that beautiful Pawnee with a glider in tow, I am 100% sure that you remember and cherish the days of past when you were thankful to that Pawnee and tow pilot.
    The offer still stands, all motorglder pilots are welcome here in Vero Beach for our spring safari, if that motor blows or you need help getting into the air that Pawnee will be there providing a tow so that you may still enjoy your time in the air.
    Old Bob, The Purist

    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    As an immigrant (better check my papers, Ricky-Bobbie) to this country to help the ailing US ecomomy, I have yet to make my first winch launch over here. All my 500+ instructional and following flights were made on the winch in Germany. Also operated
    the winch with up to 70 starts per day. No Pawnees, no motorgliders. I still relish releasing at 1,000-1,500' from tow and thermal away. Now that's pure soaring, the purist would know nothing about it.
    Herbie, as we say down south, you are letting your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass. Thanks for being an immigrant, aren't we all? I too have winch launched, flown motorgliders and auto launched, did not see that on you resume, but please
    add it if you wish, also have many aero tows and many as tow pilot from my beautiful Pawnee's!
    I am heavily involved in psychoanalyzing motor glider pilots and have been working on a new definition for those like yourself whom have been suffering from this terrible disease. Please understand that there is help on the way, a refresher in pure
    glider flight is the first step min this 21 day process. There is a strong possibility that there may need be a winch launch to refresh you mind and revert you back to the Purist approach to soaring. This may also require that you inform the wife that
    you have a strong possibility of being late for dinner, so keep the beer on ice until you get back home.
    The term associated with this unmanly disorder is "Motorgliderology", yes it can hit anyone, male or female, but there is a treatment that is 100% effective in restoring the motorglider pilot back to the more respectable form of glider flight just like
    many of us Purist.
    Now the invitation still stands, Vero Beach is a great place surrounded by many Purist glider pilots. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to jfitch on Fri Sep 9 14:06:00 2022
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:22:27 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    I do remember gliders that required the assistance of others to launch and retrieve. I remember outdoor plumbing, muzzle loading muskets, dial telephones, and root cellars too - that doesn't mean I want to turn back the clock on progress. Why stop at
    the latest advancements? Why not go back to pellet varios, wood and fabric, or wax and feathers like Icarus? Old Bob is about 2% pure, not Ivory Soap pure. Base jumping without a chute is 100% pure, but your OLC postings will be limited.

    Whatever it takes to get out of Crete! Old Bob, The Purist
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:16:08 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:54:03 AM UTC-4, Herbert Kilian wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:06:36 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a trailer
    and a Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".
    Now Fitch, maybe the article should be "Humble Beginnings", and have a picture of that beautiful Pawnee with a glider in tow, I am 100% sure that you remember and cherish the days of past when you were thankful to that Pawnee and tow pilot.
    The offer still stands, all motorglder pilots are welcome here in Vero Beach for our spring safari, if that motor blows or you need help getting into the air that Pawnee will be there providing a tow so that you may still enjoy your time in the
    air. Old Bob, The Purist

    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    As an immigrant (better check my papers, Ricky-Bobbie) to this country to help the ailing US ecomomy, I have yet to make my first winch launch over here. All my 500+ instructional and following flights were made on the winch in Germany. Also
    operated the winch with up to 70 starts per day. No Pawnees, no motorgliders. I still relish releasing at 1,000-1,500' from tow and thermal away. Now that's pure soaring, the purist would know nothing about it.
    Herbie, as we say down south, you are letting your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass. Thanks for being an immigrant, aren't we all? I too have winch launched, flown motorgliders and auto launched, did not see that on you resume, but
    please add it if you wish, also have many aero tows and many as tow pilot from my beautiful Pawnee's!
    I am heavily involved in psychoanalyzing motor glider pilots and have been working on a new definition for those like yourself whom have been suffering from this terrible disease. Please understand that there is help on the way, a refresher in pure
    glider flight is the first step min this 21 day process. There is a strong possibility that there may need be a winch launch to refresh you mind and revert you back to the Purist approach to soaring. This may also require that you inform the wife that
    you have a strong possibility of being late for dinner, so keep the beer on ice until you get back home.
    The term associated with this unmanly disorder is "Motorgliderology", yes it can hit anyone, male or female, but there is a treatment that is 100% effective in restoring the motorglider pilot back to the more respectable form of glider flight just
    like many of us Purist.
    Now the invitation still stands, Vero Beach is a great place surrounded by many Purist glider pilots. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jfitch@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Sep 9 13:22:25 2022
    I do remember gliders that required the assistance of others to launch and retrieve. I remember outdoor plumbing, muzzle loading muskets, dial telephones, and root cellars too - that doesn't mean I want to turn back the clock on progress. Why stop at the
    latest advancements? Why not go back to pellet varios, wood and fabric, or wax and feathers like Icarus? Old Bob is about 2% pure, not Ivory Soap pure. Base jumping without a chute is 100% pure, but your OLC postings will be limited.
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:16:08 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:54:03 AM UTC-4, Herbert Kilian wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:06:36 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a trailer
    and a Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".
    Now Fitch, maybe the article should be "Humble Beginnings", and have a picture of that beautiful Pawnee with a glider in tow, I am 100% sure that you remember and cherish the days of past when you were thankful to that Pawnee and tow pilot.
    The offer still stands, all motorglder pilots are welcome here in Vero Beach for our spring safari, if that motor blows or you need help getting into the air that Pawnee will be there providing a tow so that you may still enjoy your time in the air.
    Old Bob, The Purist

    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    As an immigrant (better check my papers, Ricky-Bobbie) to this country to help the ailing US ecomomy, I have yet to make my first winch launch over here. All my 500+ instructional and following flights were made on the winch in Germany. Also operated
    the winch with up to 70 starts per day. No Pawnees, no motorgliders. I still relish releasing at 1,000-1,500' from tow and thermal away. Now that's pure soaring, the purist would know nothing about it.
    Herbie, as we say down south, you are letting your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass. Thanks for being an immigrant, aren't we all? I too have winch launched, flown motorgliders and auto launched, did not see that on you resume, but please
    add it if you wish, also have many aero tows and many as tow pilot from my beautiful Pawnee's!
    I am heavily involved in psychoanalyzing motor glider pilots and have been working on a new definition for those like yourself whom have been suffering from this terrible disease. Please understand that there is help on the way, a refresher in pure
    glider flight is the first step min this 21 day process. There is a strong possibility that there may need be a winch launch to refresh you mind and revert you back to the Purist approach to soaring. This may also require that you inform the wife that
    you have a strong possibility of being late for dinner, so keep the beer on ice until you get back home.
    The term associated with this unmanly disorder is "Motorgliderology", yes it can hit anyone, male or female, but there is a treatment that is 100% effective in restoring the motorglider pilot back to the more respectable form of glider flight just like
    many of us Purist.
    Now the invitation still stands, Vero Beach is a great place surrounded by many Purist glider pilots. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Sep 9 19:15:03 2022
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:06:02 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:22:27 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    I do remember gliders that required the assistance of others to launch and retrieve. I remember outdoor plumbing, muzzle loading muskets, dial telephones, and root cellars too - that doesn't mean I want to turn back the clock on progress. Why stop at
    the latest advancements? Why not go back to pellet varios, wood and fabric, or wax and feathers like Icarus? Old Bob is about 2% pure, not Ivory Soap pure. Base jumping without a chute is 100% pure, but your OLC postings will be limited.
    Whatever it takes to get out of Crete! Old Bob, The Purist
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:16:08 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:54:03 AM UTC-4, Herbert Kilian wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:06:36 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a
    trailer and a Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".
    Now Fitch, maybe the article should be "Humble Beginnings", and have a picture of that beautiful Pawnee with a glider in tow, I am 100% sure that you remember and cherish the days of past when you were thankful to that Pawnee and tow pilot.
    The offer still stands, all motorglder pilots are welcome here in Vero Beach for our spring safari, if that motor blows or you need help getting into the air that Pawnee will be there providing a tow so that you may still enjoy your time in the
    air. Old Bob, The Purist

    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    As an immigrant (better check my papers, Ricky-Bobbie) to this country to help the ailing US ecomomy, I have yet to make my first winch launch over here. All my 500+ instructional and following flights were made on the winch in Germany. Also
    operated the winch with up to 70 starts per day. No Pawnees, no motorgliders. I still relish releasing at 1,000-1,500' from tow and thermal away. Now that's pure soaring, the purist would know nothing about it.
    Herbie, as we say down south, you are letting your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass. Thanks for being an immigrant, aren't we all? I too have winch launched, flown motorgliders and auto launched, did not see that on you resume, but
    please add it if you wish, also have many aero tows and many as tow pilot from my beautiful Pawnee's!
    I am heavily involved in psychoanalyzing motor glider pilots and have been working on a new definition for those like yourself whom have been suffering from this terrible disease. Please understand that there is help on the way, a refresher in pure
    glider flight is the first step min this 21 day process. There is a strong possibility that there may need be a winch launch to refresh you mind and revert you back to the Purist approach to soaring. This may also require that you inform the wife that
    you have a strong possibility of being late for dinner, so keep the beer on ice until you get back home.
    The term associated with this unmanly disorder is "Motorgliderology", yes it can hit anyone, male or female, but there is a treatment that is 100% effective in restoring the motorglider pilot back to the more respectable form of glider flight just
    like many of us Purist.
    Now the invitation still stands, Vero Beach is a great place surrounded by many Purist glider pilots. Old Bob, The Purist

    Hey Bobbie, how is the search going for a new strip?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 10 04:57:52 2022
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:15:05 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:06:02 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:22:27 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    I do remember gliders that required the assistance of others to launch and retrieve. I remember outdoor plumbing, muzzle loading muskets, dial telephones, and root cellars too - that doesn't mean I want to turn back the clock on progress. Why stop
    at the latest advancements? Why not go back to pellet varios, wood and fabric, or wax and feathers like Icarus? Old Bob is about 2% pure, not Ivory Soap pure. Base jumping without a chute is 100% pure, but your OLC postings will be limited.
    Whatever it takes to get out of Crete! Old Bob, The Purist
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:16:08 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:54:03 AM UTC-4, Herbert Kilian wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:06:36 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a
    trailer and a Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".
    Now Fitch, maybe the article should be "Humble Beginnings", and have a picture of that beautiful Pawnee with a glider in tow, I am 100% sure that you remember and cherish the days of past when you were thankful to that Pawnee and tow pilot.
    The offer still stands, all motorglder pilots are welcome here in Vero Beach for our spring safari, if that motor blows or you need help getting into the air that Pawnee will be there providing a tow so that you may still enjoy your time in
    the air. Old Bob, The Purist

    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    As an immigrant (better check my papers, Ricky-Bobbie) to this country to help the ailing US ecomomy, I have yet to make my first winch launch over here. All my 500+ instructional and following flights were made on the winch in Germany. Also
    operated the winch with up to 70 starts per day. No Pawnees, no motorgliders. I still relish releasing at 1,000-1,500' from tow and thermal away. Now that's pure soaring, the purist would know nothing about it.
    Herbie, as we say down south, you are letting your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass. Thanks for being an immigrant, aren't we all? I too have winch launched, flown motorgliders and auto launched, did not see that on you resume, but
    please add it if you wish, also have many aero tows and many as tow pilot from my beautiful Pawnee's!
    I am heavily involved in psychoanalyzing motor glider pilots and have been working on a new definition for those like yourself whom have been suffering from this terrible disease. Please understand that there is help on the way, a refresher in
    pure glider flight is the first step min this 21 day process. There is a strong possibility that there may need be a winch launch to refresh you mind and revert you back to the Purist approach to soaring. This may also require that you inform the wife
    that you have a strong possibility of being late for dinner, so keep the beer on ice until you get back home.
    The term associated with this unmanly disorder is "Motorgliderology", yes it can hit anyone, male or female, but there is a treatment that is 100% effective in restoring the motorglider pilot back to the more respectable form of glider flight
    just like many of us Purist.
    Now the invitation still stands, Vero Beach is a great place surrounded by many Purist glider pilots. Old Bob, The Purist
    Hey Bobbie, how is the search going for a new strip?
    DH, it has been confirmed that you are indeed suffering from something more serious than Motorgliderology, most people with the disease can be treated, not you! Maybe the three amigos, DH, Herbie and Killian can find help for their demented attitudes.
    Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Sep 10 09:26:44 2022
    On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 4:57:53 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:15:05 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:06:02 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:22:27 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    I do remember gliders that required the assistance of others to launch and retrieve. I remember outdoor plumbing, muzzle loading muskets, dial telephones, and root cellars too - that doesn't mean I want to turn back the clock on progress. Why
    stop at the latest advancements? Why not go back to pellet varios, wood and fabric, or wax and feathers like Icarus? Old Bob is about 2% pure, not Ivory Soap pure. Base jumping without a chute is 100% pure, but your OLC postings will be limited.
    Whatever it takes to get out of Crete! Old Bob, The Purist
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:16:08 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:54:03 AM UTC-4, Herbert Kilian wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:06:36 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a
    trailer and a Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".
    Now Fitch, maybe the article should be "Humble Beginnings", and have a picture of that beautiful Pawnee with a glider in tow, I am 100% sure that you remember and cherish the days of past when you were thankful to that Pawnee and tow pilot.
    The offer still stands, all motorglder pilots are welcome here in Vero Beach for our spring safari, if that motor blows or you need help getting into the air that Pawnee will be there providing a tow so that you may still enjoy your time in
    the air. Old Bob, The Purist

    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    As an immigrant (better check my papers, Ricky-Bobbie) to this country to help the ailing US ecomomy, I have yet to make my first winch launch over here. All my 500+ instructional and following flights were made on the winch in Germany. Also
    operated the winch with up to 70 starts per day. No Pawnees, no motorgliders. I still relish releasing at 1,000-1,500' from tow and thermal away. Now that's pure soaring, the purist would know nothing about it.
    Herbie, as we say down south, you are letting your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass. Thanks for being an immigrant, aren't we all? I too have winch launched, flown motorgliders and auto launched, did not see that on you resume, but
    please add it if you wish, also have many aero tows and many as tow pilot from my beautiful Pawnee's!
    I am heavily involved in psychoanalyzing motor glider pilots and have been working on a new definition for those like yourself whom have been suffering from this terrible disease. Please understand that there is help on the way, a refresher in
    pure glider flight is the first step min this 21 day process. There is a strong possibility that there may need be a winch launch to refresh you mind and revert you back to the Purist approach to soaring. This may also require that you inform the wife
    that you have a strong possibility of being late for dinner, so keep the beer on ice until you get back home.
    The term associated with this unmanly disorder is "Motorgliderology", yes it can hit anyone, male or female, but there is a treatment that is 100% effective in restoring the motorglider pilot back to the more respectable form of glider flight
    just like many of us Purist.
    Now the invitation still stands, Vero Beach is a great place surrounded by many Purist glider pilots. Old Bob, The Purist
    Hey Bobbie, how is the search going for a new strip?
    DH, it has been confirmed that you are indeed suffering from something more serious than Motorgliderology, most people with the disease can be treated, not you! Maybe the three amigos, DH, Herbie and Killian can find help for their demented attitudes.
    Old Bob, The Purist

    I will take that as "not well". Got it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 10 12:47:27 2022
    On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 12:26:46 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 4:57:53 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:15:05 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:06:02 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:22:27 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    I do remember gliders that required the assistance of others to launch and retrieve. I remember outdoor plumbing, muzzle loading muskets, dial telephones, and root cellars too - that doesn't mean I want to turn back the clock on progress. Why
    stop at the latest advancements? Why not go back to pellet varios, wood and fabric, or wax and feathers like Icarus? Old Bob is about 2% pure, not Ivory Soap pure. Base jumping without a chute is 100% pure, but your OLC postings will be limited.
    Whatever it takes to get out of Crete! Old Bob, The Purist
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:16:08 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:54:03 AM UTC-4, Herbert Kilian wrote:
    On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 7:06:36 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    To be consistent, Sean should change the name for any other category to "Gliders that require a towplane with a motor". Or perhaps, "Aircraft that are lawn ornaments without a Pawnee". Or maybe, "One-way ticket gliders unless you have a
    trailer and a Suburban to pull it and a crew to drive it and don't mind missing dinner".
    Now Fitch, maybe the article should be "Humble Beginnings", and have a picture of that beautiful Pawnee with a glider in tow, I am 100% sure that you remember and cherish the days of past when you were thankful to that Pawnee and tow
    pilot.
    The offer still stands, all motorglder pilots are welcome here in Vero Beach for our spring safari, if that motor blows or you need help getting into the air that Pawnee will be there providing a tow so that you may still enjoy your time
    in the air. Old Bob, The Purist

    Just going for honesty in representation.
    On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    Say it isn't so, now there is even more documentation about the so called motorglider. They should just change the name to powered airplanes. Old Bob, The Purist
    As an immigrant (better check my papers, Ricky-Bobbie) to this country to help the ailing US ecomomy, I have yet to make my first winch launch over here. All my 500+ instructional and following flights were made on the winch in Germany.
    Also operated the winch with up to 70 starts per day. No Pawnees, no motorgliders. I still relish releasing at 1,000-1,500' from tow and thermal away. Now that's pure soaring, the purist would know nothing about it.
    Herbie, as we say down south, you are letting your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass. Thanks for being an immigrant, aren't we all? I too have winch launched, flown motorgliders and auto launched, did not see that on you resume,
    but please add it if you wish, also have many aero tows and many as tow pilot from my beautiful Pawnee's!
    I am heavily involved in psychoanalyzing motor glider pilots and have been working on a new definition for those like yourself whom have been suffering from this terrible disease. Please understand that there is help on the way, a refresher
    in pure glider flight is the first step min this 21 day process. There is a strong possibility that there may need be a winch launch to refresh you mind and revert you back to the Purist approach to soaring. This may also require that you inform the wife
    that you have a strong possibility of being late for dinner, so keep the beer on ice until you get back home.
    The term associated with this unmanly disorder is "Motorgliderology", yes it can hit anyone, male or female, but there is a treatment that is 100% effective in restoring the motorglider pilot back to the more respectable form of glider flight
    just like many of us Purist.
    Now the invitation still stands, Vero Beach is a great place surrounded by many Purist glider pilots. Old Bob, The Purist
    Hey Bobbie, how is the search going for a new strip?
    DH, it has been confirmed that you are indeed suffering from something more serious than Motorgliderology, most people with the disease can be treated, not you! Maybe the three amigos, DH, Herbie and Killian can find help for their demented attitudes.
    Old Bob, The Purist
    I will take that as "not well". Got it.
    DH, things are great here at X52, no need to worry about the future, Maybe your future is in question? I regret that I did not mention Kinsell in my previous post, meant Kinsell instead of Killian. even old Bob makes typo's. What a great day at X52 today,
    lots of great people, many hours of fun. Old Bob, The Purist

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Sep 10 14:25:36 2022
    On 9/10/2022 12:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    things are great here at X52, no need to worry about the future, Maybe your future is in question? I regret that I did not mention Kinsell in my previous post, meant Kinsell instead of Killian. even old Bob makes typo's. What a great day at X52 today,
    lots of great people, many hours of fun. Old Bob, The Purist

    Great day? The NWS forecast shows 60% chance of rain, lightning, thunder, heat index 100+
    - are those conditions considered "great" in your area? Well then, someone should try the
    270 km O&R suggested (among other tasks) by SkySight. Go SW to near Cape Coral, turn
    around and fly back through the showers and lightning (but task misses all the airspace).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Sat Sep 10 15:27:47 2022
    On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 5:25:42 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/10/2022 12:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    things are great here at X52, no need to worry about the future, Maybe your future is in question? I regret that I did not mention Kinsell in my previous post, meant Kinsell instead of Killian. even old Bob makes typo's. What a great day at X52 today,
    lots of great people, many hours of fun. Old Bob, The Purist
    Great day? The NWS forecast shows 60% chance of rain, lightning, thunder, heat index 100+
    - are those conditions considered "great" in your area? Well then, someone should try the
    270 km O&R suggested (among other tasks) by SkySight. Go SW to near Cape Coral, turn
    around and fly back through the showers and lightning (but task misses all the airspace).

    Only 100 + on the heat index, seems like a cold front just moved in. We are accustomed to greater index that a measly 100, that separates us from all the Canadians. Never trust Skysight or Dr. Jack, learn the weather and use your own measure of good Wx.
    Your task is way too easy, go straight to Libelle, then go north on the west side of 2901 and come across the tough part north of 2901 and east back to X52. Old Bob, The Purist

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Sep 10 21:45:48 2022
    On 9/10/2022 3:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 5:25:42 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/10/2022 12:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    things are great here at X52, no need to worry about the future, Maybe your future is in question? I regret that I did not mention Kinsell in my previous post, meant Kinsell instead of Killian. even old Bob makes typo's. What a great day at X52 today,
    lots of great people, many hours of fun. Old Bob, The Purist
    Great day? The NWS forecast shows 60% chance of rain, lightning, thunder, heat index 100+
    - are those conditions considered "great" in your area? Well then, someone should try the
    270 km O&R suggested (among other tasks) by SkySight. Go SW to near Cape Coral, turn
    around and fly back through the showers and lightning (but task misses all the airspace).

    Only 100 + on the heat index, seems like a cold front just moved in. We are accustomed to greater index that a measly 100, that separates us from all the Canadians. Never trust Skysight or Dr. Jack, learn the weather and use your own measure of good Wx.
    Your task is way too easy, go straight to Libelle, then go north on the west side of 2901 and come across the tough part north of 2901 and east back to X52. Old Bob, The Purist


    You say it's a great day, propose a 383km task, and yet the conditions are so bad in all
    of Florida, nobody posts a flight! On a Saturday! Maybe you should trust SkySight, because
    it predicted poor soaring. Sorry, I have to give you "Four Pinocchios" for this soaring
    weather report.

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Sun Sep 11 04:26:45 2022
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:45:54 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/10/2022 3:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 5:25:42 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/10/2022 12:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    things are great here at X52, no need to worry about the future, Maybe your future is in question? I regret that I did not mention Kinsell in my previous post, meant Kinsell instead of Killian. even old Bob makes typo's. What a great day at X52
    today, lots of great people, many hours of fun. Old Bob, The Purist
    Great day? The NWS forecast shows 60% chance of rain, lightning, thunder, heat index 100+
    - are those conditions considered "great" in your area? Well then, someone should try the
    270 km O&R suggested (among other tasks) by SkySight. Go SW to near Cape Coral, turn
    around and fly back through the showers and lightning (but task misses all the airspace).

    Only 100 + on the heat index, seems like a cold front just moved in. We are accustomed to greater index that a measly 100, that separates us from all the Canadians. Never trust Skysight or Dr. Jack, learn the weather and use your own measure of good
    Wx.
    Your task is way too easy, go straight to Libelle, then go north on the west side of 2901 and come across the tough part north of 2901 and east back to X52. Old Bob, The Purist

    You say it's a great day, propose a 383km task, and yet the conditions are so bad in all
    of Florida, nobody posts a flight! On a Saturday! Maybe you should trust SkySight, because
    it predicted poor soaring. Sorry, I have to give you "Four Pinocchios" for this soaring
    weather report.

    Every day is a great day in Florida, our club sold rides yesterday, we did training, and also washed and cleaned the club ships also had two new guys show up for interest in becoming a new member. The the late afternoon storms came that we much needed,
    mangoes need water and I grow lots of mangoes. A visitor came over from the Tampa Soaring Club, and spent time looking at a glider and visiting our hangar, to say the least he was impressed!
    Don't know what you guys did up in WA, probably cut firewood for the cold winter months. OBTP
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Charles Longley@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Sep 11 08:09:26 2022
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 7:26:47 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:45:54 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/10/2022 3:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 5:25:42 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/10/2022 12:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    things are great here at X52, no need to worry about the future, Maybe your future is in question? I regret that I did not mention Kinsell in my previous post, meant Kinsell instead of Killian. even old Bob makes typo's. What a great day at X52
    today, lots of great people, many hours of fun. Old Bob, The Purist
    Great day? The NWS forecast shows 60% chance of rain, lightning, thunder, heat index 100+
    - are those conditions considered "great" in your area? Well then, someone should try the
    270 km O&R suggested (among other tasks) by SkySight. Go SW to near Cape Coral, turn
    around and fly back through the showers and lightning (but task misses all the airspace).

    Only 100 + on the heat index, seems like a cold front just moved in. We are accustomed to greater index that a measly 100, that separates us from all the Canadians. Never trust Skysight or Dr. Jack, learn the weather and use your own measure of
    good Wx.
    Your task is way too easy, go straight to Libelle, then go north on the west side of 2901 and come across the tough part north of 2901 and east back to X52. Old Bob, The Purist

    You say it's a great day, propose a 383km task, and yet the conditions are so bad in all
    of Florida, nobody posts a flight! On a Saturday! Maybe you should trust SkySight, because
    it predicted poor soaring. Sorry, I have to give you "Four Pinocchios" for this soaring
    weather report.
    Every day is a great day in Florida, our club sold rides yesterday, we did training, and also washed and cleaned the club ships also had two new guys show up for interest in becoming a new member. The the late afternoon storms came that we much needed,
    mangoes need water and I grow lots of mangoes. A visitor came over from the Tampa Soaring Club, and spent time looking at a glider and visiting our hangar, to say the least he was impressed!
    Don't know what you guys did up in WA, probably cut firewood for the cold winter months. OBTP
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    We actually fly year round. Well I don’t but Evergreen Soaring does. Too f-ing cold. How’s winter soaring in your neck of the wood Bob?

    Charlie

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Sep 11 13:02:27 2022
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 11:09:28 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 7:26:47 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:45:54 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/10/2022 3:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 5:25:42 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/10/2022 12:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    things are great here at X52, no need to worry about the future, Maybe your future is in question? I regret that I did not mention Kinsell in my previous post, meant Kinsell instead of Killian. even old Bob makes typo's. What a great day at X52
    today, lots of great people, many hours of fun. Old Bob, The Purist
    Great day? The NWS forecast shows 60% chance of rain, lightning, thunder, heat index 100+
    - are those conditions considered "great" in your area? Well then, someone should try the
    270 km O&R suggested (among other tasks) by SkySight. Go SW to near Cape Coral, turn
    around and fly back through the showers and lightning (but task misses all the airspace).

    Only 100 + on the heat index, seems like a cold front just moved in. We are accustomed to greater index that a measly 100, that separates us from all the Canadians. Never trust Skysight or Dr. Jack, learn the weather and use your own measure of
    good Wx.
    Your task is way too easy, go straight to Libelle, then go north on the west side of 2901 and come across the tough part north of 2901 and east back to X52. Old Bob, The Purist

    You say it's a great day, propose a 383km task, and yet the conditions are so bad in all
    of Florida, nobody posts a flight! On a Saturday! Maybe you should trust SkySight, because
    it predicted poor soaring. Sorry, I have to give you "Four Pinocchios" for this soaring
    weather report.
    Every day is a great day in Florida, our club sold rides yesterday, we did training, and also washed and cleaned the club ships also had two new guys show up for interest in becoming a new member. The the late afternoon storms came that we much
    needed, mangoes need water and I grow lots of mangoes. A visitor came over from the Tampa Soaring Club, and spent time looking at a glider and visiting our hangar, to say the least he was impressed!
    Don't know what you guys did up in WA, probably cut firewood for the cold winter months. OBTP
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    We actually fly year round. Well I don’t but Evergreen Soaring does. Too f-ing cold. How’s winter soaring in your neck of the wood Bob?

    Charlie
    Winter soaring in my neck of the woods is usually pretty good, the last couple of years we have had unusual rains into December and that slowed things down a bit, yet we were still able to soar. One of the better months in Florida is October, yes believe
    it or not October can be very good. About the second or third week of October the weather changes quickly and the soaring gets pretty good. If those damn Canadians knew how good Florida could be in October they would show up early, please keep it a
    secret.
    The winter months or seasonal months as we refer to them are very good for soaring, the temp is more desirable and the DP /Temp spreads rise and even with the shorter days we do very well. The further south you go in Florida it can be much better than
    central Florida. I was able to fly gliders in Miami for many years, then moved to Vero in the late 80's, those days of flying south of Miami were something to behold.
    The invitation still stands for the Motorgliderology afflicted guys to come on down and see just what Old Bob, The Purist has been talking about, the beer is on me. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bumper@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 11 22:09:15 2022
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your crippled, unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring flight are, every one, self-launchers. Their ability to take flight unaided, at will, and under their own power, is key
    to their success and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any soaring bird. Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make so much as a decent crow hop without
    outside power or steep downslope. Is that what leads to your attempts elevate yourself by disparaging others?

    bumper

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ASM@21:1/5 to bumper on Sun Sep 11 22:24:00 2022
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:09:16 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your crippled, unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring flight are, every one, self-launchers. Their ability to take flight unaided, at will, and under their own power, is
    key to their success and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any soaring bird. Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make so much as a decent crow hop
    without outside power or steep downslope. Is that what leads to your attempts elevate yourself by disparaging others?

    bumper

    You just described the reason why the United States didn’t produce any world champions since Doug Jacobs 1985 win. Sad.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to ASM on Mon Sep 12 04:56:59 2022
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:24:02 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:09:16 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your crippled, unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring flight are, every one, self-launchers. Their ability to take flight unaided, at will, and under their own power, is
    key to their success and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any soaring bird. Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make so much as a decent crow hop
    without outside power or steep downslope. Is that what leads to your attempts elevate yourself by disparaging others?

    bumper
    You just described the reason why the United States didn’t produce any world champions since Doug Jacobs 1985 win. Sad.

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    The motorglider guys and gals will argue until their last breath that motorgliders offer no advantage and they will point out that contest are won by Purist more often than not, that response was documented here in an earlier post. OLC should also have
    two categories which would score pure vs Motorglider flights differently based on what I call the umbrella of the motor.
    Bump, I too have been doing this for a long time, know and understand this sport very well, it has changed drastically the past 20 years or so, not to the good IMHO. Several of my friends are Motorglider guys and gals, we have known each other for a long
    time, some of them for as long as 45 years. Don't think that your opinion is the only one that counts, we just look at things differently. Loosen up Bump, life is too short, have a few laughs and smile along the way. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Daly@21:1/5 to ASM on Mon Sep 12 04:51:31 2022
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:24:02 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:09:16 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your crippled, unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring flight are, every one, self-launchers. Their ability to take flight unaided, at will, and under their own power, is
    key to their success and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any soaring bird. Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make so much as a decent crow hop
    without outside power or steep downslope. Is that what leads to your attempts elevate yourself by disparaging others?

    bumper
    You just described the reason why the United States didn’t produce any world champions since Doug Jacobs 1985 win. Sad.

    Except for Sarah Arnold.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Mocho@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 12 06:43:35 2022
    "Don't think that your opinion is the only one that counts, we just look at things differently."

    Advice OBTP should take to heart. But doesn't.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Sep 12 07:15:39 2022
    On 9/12/2022 4:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:24:02 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:09:16 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your crippled, unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring flight are, every one, self-launchers. Their ability to take flight unaided, at will, and under their own power, is
    key to their success and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any soaring bird. Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make so much as a decent crow hop
    without outside power or steep downslope. Is that what leads to your attempts elevate yourself by disparaging others?

    bumper
    You just described the reason why the United States didn’t produce any world champions since Doug Jacobs 1985 win. Sad.

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    The motorglider guys and gals will argue until their last breath that motorgliders offer no advantage and they will point out that contest are won by Purist more often than not, that response was documented here in an earlier post. OLC should also have
    two categories which would score pure vs Motorglider flights differently based on what I call the umbrella of the motor.
    Bump, I too have been doing this for a long time, know and understand this sport very well, it has changed drastically the past 20 years or so, not to the good IMHO. Several of my friends are Motorglider guys and gals, we have known each other for a
    long time, some of them for as long as 45 years. Don't think that your opinion is the only one that counts, we just look at things differently. Loosen up Bump, life is too short, have a few laughs and smile along the way. Old Bob, The Purist

    We've been dividing gliders into different racing classes for many decades, such as Std,
    15M, and Open, and more recently, we introduced the Sports Class, which allowed all
    gliders to fly in it by handicapping, and the similar Club Class. Lots of effort went into
    these decisions over the 40+ years I've been flying, and motorgliders flew in all these
    classes in increasing numbers. There were many rule changes during that 40 years, but I do
    not recall any rule attempting to treat motorgliders differently than towed gliders that
    would reduce their "advantage".

    Now, we have a pilot that does not fly in SSA competitions, and scores very modestly on
    the OLC (even if only compared to towed gliders), complaining about the "advantage"
    motorgliders have! Most of us realize there are many factors that help or harm a pilot's
    performance in contests: income$, employment status, people skills, home location,
    education - all these affect a pilot's competition success more than the "advantage" of
    flying a motorglider in a contest, yet The Purists ignores them.

    Still, the biggest problem with separating towed and untowed is the contests will be
    smaller and less economic to sponsor. We all lose if we make the contests "fairer".

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Marotta@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Mon Sep 12 08:56:39 2022
    Not to break up the banter but, what's the difference between Sports
    Class and Club Class?

    Dan
    5J

    On 9/12/22 08:15, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/12/2022 4:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:24:02 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:09:16 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your
    crippled, unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring
    flight are, every one, self-launchers. Their ability to take flight
    unaided, at will, and under their own power, is key to their success
    and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any soaring bird.
    Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled
    glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make
    so much as a decent crow hop without outside power or steep
    downslope. Is that what leads to your attempts elevate yourself by
    disparaging others?

    bumper
    You just described the reason why the United States didn’t produce
    any world champions since Doug Jacobs 1985 win. Sad.

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why
    soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and,
    B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    The motorglider guys and gals will argue until their last breath that
    motorgliders offer no advantage and they will point out that contest
    are won by Purist more often than not, that response was documented
    here in an earlier post. OLC should also have two categories which
    would score pure vs Motorglider flights differently based on what I
    call the umbrella of the motor.
    Bump, I too have been doing this for a long time, know and understand
    this sport very well, it has changed drastically the past 20 years or
    so, not to the good IMHO. Several of my friends are Motorglider guys
    and gals, we have known each other for a long time, some of them for
    as long as 45 years. Don't think that your opinion is the only one
    that counts, we just look at things differently. Loosen up Bump, life
    is too short, have a few laughs and smile along the way. Old Bob, The
    Purist

    We've been dividing gliders into different racing classes for many
    decades, such as Std, 15M, and Open, and more recently, we introduced
    the Sports Class, which allowed all gliders to fly in it by
    handicapping, and the similar Club Class. Lots of effort went into these decisions over the 40+ years I've been flying, and motorgliders flew in
    all these classes in increasing numbers. There were many rule changes
    during that 40 years, but I do not recall any rule attempting to treat motorgliders differently than towed gliders that would reduce their "advantage".

    Now, we have a pilot that does not fly in SSA competitions, and scores
    very modestly on the OLC (even if only compared to towed gliders), complaining about the "advantage" motorgliders have! Most of us realize
    there are many factors that help or harm a pilot's performance in
    contests: income$, employment status, people skills, home location,
    education - all these affect a pilot's competition success more than the "advantage" of flying a motorglider in a contest, yet The Purists
    ignores them.

    Still, the biggest problem with separating towed and untowed is the
    contests will be smaller and less economic to sponsor. We all lose if we
    make the contests "fairer".


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Mon Sep 12 08:48:30 2022
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:15:46 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/12/2022 4:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:24:02 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:09:16 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your crippled, unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring flight are, every one, self-launchers. Their ability to take flight unaided, at will, and under their own power,
    is key to their success and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any soaring bird. Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make so much as a decent crow hop
    without outside power or steep downslope. Is that what leads to your attempts elevate yourself by disparaging others?

    bumper
    You just described the reason why the United States didn’t produce any world champions since Doug Jacobs 1985 win. Sad.

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    The motorglider guys and gals will argue until their last breath that motorgliders offer no advantage and they will point out that contest are won by Purist more often than not, that response was documented here in an earlier post. OLC should also
    have two categories which would score pure vs Motorglider flights differently based on what I call the umbrella of the motor.
    Bump, I too have been doing this for a long time, know and understand this sport very well, it has changed drastically the past 20 years or so, not to the good IMHO. Several of my friends are Motorglider guys and gals, we have known each other for a
    long time, some of them for as long as 45 years. Don't think that your opinion is the only one that counts, we just look at things differently. Loosen up Bump, life is too short, have a few laughs and smile along the way. Old Bob, The Purist
    We've been dividing gliders into different racing classes for many decades, such as Std,
    15M, and Open, and more recently, we introduced the Sports Class, which allowed all
    gliders to fly in it by handicapping, and the similar Club Class. Lots of effort went into
    these decisions over the 40+ years I've been flying, and motorgliders flew in all these
    classes in increasing numbers. There were many rule changes during that 40 years, but I do
    not recall any rule attempting to treat motorgliders differently than towed gliders that
    would reduce their "advantage".

    Now, we have a pilot that does not fly in SSA competitions, and scores very modestly on
    the OLC (even if only compared to towed gliders), complaining about the "advantage"
    motorgliders have! Most of us realize there are many factors that help or harm a pilot's
    performance in contests: income$, employment status, people skills, home location,
    education - all these affect a pilot's competition success more than the "advantage" of
    flying a motorglider in a contest, yet The Purists ignores them.

    Still, the biggest problem with separating towed and untowed is the contests will be
    smaller and less economic to sponsor. We all lose if we make the contests "fairer".
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, if you think that flying in competition is some sort of standard for evaluation you need a good history lesson. I don't have to toot my horn about flying gliders, I did it often with some of the best, one of which was the best and never flew any
    contest, his name was Bennie Flowers, he kicked E9's ass 41's ass, RR's ass, EA's ass and mine , but I had the fortune of learning from one of the best. As far as my flights being modest, maybe, but you should check my flights more closely. I don't run
    up and down hwy27 like the motorglider guys do, I usually make good triangles. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Dan Marotta on Mon Sep 12 08:49:41 2022
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:56:45 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Not to break up the banter but, what's the difference between Sports
    Class and Club Class?
    S

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/12/22 08:15, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/12/2022 4:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:24:02 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:09:16 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your >>>> crippled, unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring
    flight are, every one, self-launchers. Their ability to take flight >>>> unaided, at will, and under their own power, is key to their success >>>> and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any soaring bird.
    Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled
    glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make >>>> so much as a decent crow hop without outside power or steep
    downslope. Is that what leads to your attempts elevate yourself by
    disparaging others?

    bumper
    You just described the reason why the United States didn’t produce
    any world champions since Doug Jacobs 1985 win. Sad.

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why
    soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and,
    B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    The motorglider guys and gals will argue until their last breath that
    motorgliders offer no advantage and they will point out that contest
    are won by Purist more often than not, that response was documented
    here in an earlier post. OLC should also have two categories which
    would score pure vs Motorglider flights differently based on what I
    call the umbrella of the motor.
    Bump, I too have been doing this for a long time, know and understand
    this sport very well, it has changed drastically the past 20 years or
    so, not to the good IMHO. Several of my friends are Motorglider guys
    and gals, we have known each other for a long time, some of them for
    as long as 45 years. Don't think that your opinion is the only one
    that counts, we just look at things differently. Loosen up Bump, life
    is too short, have a few laughs and smile along the way. Old Bob, The
    Purist

    We've been dividing gliders into different racing classes for many decades, such as Std, 15M, and Open, and more recently, we introduced
    the Sports Class, which allowed all gliders to fly in it by
    handicapping, and the similar Club Class. Lots of effort went into these decisions over the 40+ years I've been flying, and motorgliders flew in all these classes in increasing numbers. There were many rule changes during that 40 years, but I do not recall any rule attempting to treat motorgliders differently than towed gliders that would reduce their "advantage".

    Now, we have a pilot that does not fly in SSA competitions, and scores very modestly on the OLC (even if only compared to towed gliders), complaining about the "advantage" motorgliders have! Most of us realize there are many factors that help or harm a pilot's performance in contests: income$, employment status, people skills, home location, education - all these affect a pilot's competition success more than the "advantage" of flying a motorglider in a contest, yet The Purists
    ignores them.

    Still, the biggest problem with separating towed and untowed is the contests will be smaller and less economic to sponsor. We all lose if we make the contests "fairer".


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to Dan Marotta on Mon Sep 12 09:41:47 2022
    Sports Class, a US class, accepts all gliders. That huge performance range (eg, 1-26 to
    Nimbus 4) makes good handicapping difficult. The Club Class (European origin, I think)
    accepts a much narrower range of performance (+/- 10%? Not sure), so the handicapping does
    a much better job of "equalizing" the gliders. There are other differences, but I think
    that's the main one.

    On 9/12/2022 7:56 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Not to break up the banter but, what's the difference between Sports Class and Club Class?

    Dan
    5J

    On 9/12/22 08:15, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/12/2022 4:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:24:02 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:09:16 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your crippled,
    unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring flight are, every one,
    self-launchers. Their ability to take flight unaided, at will, and under their own
    power, is key to their success and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any
    soaring bird. Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled
    glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make so much as a
    decent crow hop without outside power or steep downslope. Is that what leads to your
    attempts elevate yourself by disparaging others?

    bumper
    You just described the reason why the United States didn’t produce any world champions
    since Doug Jacobs 1985 win. Sad.

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be
    divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    The motorglider guys and gals will argue until their last breath that motorgliders
    offer no advantage and they will point out that contest are won by Purist more often
    than not, that response was documented here in an earlier post. OLC should also have
    two categories which would score pure vs Motorglider flights differently based on what
    I call the umbrella of the motor.
    Bump, I too have been doing this for a long time, know and understand this sport very
    well, it has changed drastically the past 20 years or so, not to the good IMHO. Several
    of my friends are Motorglider guys and gals, we have known each other for a long time,
    some of them for as long as 45 years. Don't think that your opinion is the only one
    that counts, we just look at things differently. Loosen up Bump, life is too short,
    have a few laughs and smile along the way. Old Bob, The Purist

    We've been dividing gliders into different racing classes for many decades, such as Std,
    15M, and Open, and more recently, we introduced the Sports Class, which allowed all
    gliders to fly in it by handicapping, and the similar Club Class. Lots of effort went
    into these decisions over the 40+ years I've been flying, and motorgliders flew in all
    these classes in increasing numbers. There were many rule changes during that 40 years,
    but I do not recall any rule attempting to treat motorgliders differently than towed
    gliders that would reduce their "advantage".

    Now, we have a pilot that does not fly in SSA competitions, and scores very modestly on
    the OLC (even if only compared to towed gliders), complaining about the "advantage"
    motorgliders have! Most of us realize there are many factors that help or harm a pilot's
    performance in contests: income$, employment status, people skills, home location,
    education - all these affect a pilot's competition success more than the "advantage" of
    flying a motorglider in a contest, yet The Purists ignores them.

    Still, the biggest problem with separating towed and untowed is the contests will be
    smaller and less economic to sponsor. We all lose if we make the contests "fairer".


    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Nixon@21:1/5 to Dan Marotta on Mon Sep 12 09:42:12 2022
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:56:45 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Not to break up the banter but, what's the difference between Sports
    Class and Club Class?

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/12/22 08:15, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 9/12/2022 4:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:24:02 AM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
    On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:09:16 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
    Dear OBTP,

    Your "purist" blathering has been flawed from the start.

    Any self-launch glider is more akin to "true pure soaring" than your >>>> crippled, unpowered glider. The genuine "true purists" of soaring
    flight are, every one, self-launchers. Their ability to take flight >>>> unaided, at will, and under their own power, is key to their success >>>> and survival - watch the freedom and skill of any soaring bird.
    Compared to them, and other self-launchers, you and your crippled
    glider will remain rank amateurs, bereft of even the ability to make >>>> so much as a decent crow hop without outside power or steep
    downslope. Is that what leads to your attempts elevate yourself by
    disparaging others?

    bumper
    You just described the reason why the United States didn’t produce
    any world champions since Doug Jacobs 1985 win. Sad.

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why
    soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and,
    B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    The motorglider guys and gals will argue until their last breath that
    motorgliders offer no advantage and they will point out that contest
    are won by Purist more often than not, that response was documented
    here in an earlier post. OLC should also have two categories which
    would score pure vs Motorglider flights differently based on what I
    call the umbrella of the motor.
    Bump, I too have been doing this for a long time, know and understand
    this sport very well, it has changed drastically the past 20 years or
    so, not to the good IMHO. Several of my friends are Motorglider guys
    and gals, we have known each other for a long time, some of them for
    as long as 45 years. Don't think that your opinion is the only one
    that counts, we just look at things differently. Loosen up Bump, life
    is too short, have a few laughs and smile along the way. Old Bob, The
    Purist

    We've been dividing gliders into different racing classes for many decades, such as Std, 15M, and Open, and more recently, we introduced
    the Sports Class, which allowed all gliders to fly in it by
    handicapping, and the similar Club Class. Lots of effort went into these decisions over the 40+ years I've been flying, and motorgliders flew in all these classes in increasing numbers. There were many rule changes during that 40 years, but I do not recall any rule attempting to treat motorgliders differently than towed gliders that would reduce their "advantage".

    Now, we have a pilot that does not fly in SSA competitions, and scores very modestly on the OLC (even if only compared to towed gliders), complaining about the "advantage" motorgliders have! Most of us realize there are many factors that help or harm a pilot's performance in contests: income$, employment status, people skills, home location, education - all these affect a pilot's competition success more than the "advantage" of flying a motorglider in a contest, yet The Purists
    ignores them.

    Still, the biggest problem with separating towed and untowed is the contests will be smaller and less economic to sponsor. We all lose if we make the contests "fairer".

    Club class, in the USA is a handicapped class similar to Sports Class , but limited to 15 meter span gliders in a narrower handicap range. This permits tasking to include assigned tasks that would not be practical in a contest with a Nimbus 4 and a 1-26.
    Club, again in the US , has a handicap range from the Std Libelle to the LS-6. UH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AS@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Mon Sep 12 11:26:00 2022
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:41:53 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    Sports Class, a US class, accepts all gliders. That huge performance range (eg, 1-26 to
    Nimbus 4) makes good handicapping difficult. The Club Class (European origin, I think)
    accepts a much narrower range of performance (+/- 10%? Not sure), so the handicapping does
    a much better job of "equalizing" the gliders. There are other differences, but I think
    that's the main one.
    On 9/12/2022 7:56 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Not to break up the banter but, what's the difference between Sports Class and Club Class?

    Dan
    5J
    To fly in the European Club Class, you glider type must be on the list of club class gliders.

    Uli
    'AS'

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From andy l@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Sep 12 16:24:59 2022
    How about a radical innovation, if you must have a category split? On here, divide discussion into the launch, and the rest of the flight

    It is beyond absurd that so much of the protracted squabbling on here is devoted to the first one to six or seven minutes, and the quality of the rest is common to all of us

    Oh sure, sometimes those motors bring people home instead of landing in a field. Flying non powered club gliders, I've landed out twice this year, not far away. And I've retrieved some friends. Do I have a chip on my shoulder about motorgliders like you
    have? No. And I don't understand why you have either. Please don't try to explain it though, we've seen enough.

    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 12:57:01 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to andy l on Tue Sep 13 15:13:51 2022
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:25:01 PM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
    How about a radical innovation, if you must have a category split? On here, divide discussion into the launch, and the rest of the flight

    It is beyond absurd that so much of the protracted squabbling on here is devoted to the first one to six or seven minutes, and the quality of the rest is common to all of us

    Oh sure, sometimes those motors bring people home instead of landing in a field. Flying non powered club gliders, I've landed out twice this year, not far away. And I've retrieved some friends. Do I have a chip on my shoulder about motorgliders like
    you have? No. And I don't understand why you have either. Please don't try to explain it though, we've seen enough.
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 12:57:01 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and leaves such
    a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Gregorie@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Sep 13 23:04:31 2022
    On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:13:51 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:

    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:25:01 PM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
    How about a radical innovation, if you must have a category split? On
    here, divide discussion into the launch, and the rest of the flight

    It is beyond absurd that so much of the protracted squabbling on here
    is devoted to the first one to six or seven minutes, and the quality of
    the rest is common to all of us

    Oh sure, sometimes those motors bring people home instead of landing in
    a field. Flying non powered club gliders, I've landed out twice this
    year, not far away. And I've retrieved some friends. Do I have a chip
    on my shoulder about motorgliders like you have? No. And I don't
    understand why you have either. Please don't try to explain it though,
    we've seen enough.
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 12:57:01 UTC+1, [email protected]
    wrote:

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why
    soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and,
    B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders,
    I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number
    1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience
    that depredates the sport and leaves such a unpalatable impression. Old
    Bob, The Purist

    It can be argued that anything other than bungee launches off a hill is cheating. Lets not forget that's how all the early records were set and competitions were won.

    IOW, any engine-powered launch, regardless of which aircraft or surface equipment the engine is mounted on, is cheating.

    Let battle commence...


    --

    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From andy l@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Sep 14 05:43:35 2022
    As I already suggested, on a good day the launch can be half to two per cent of the flight

    When you see something circling a mile or two away, you can't tell the difference

    On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 23:13:53 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and leaves
    such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to andy l on Wed Sep 14 06:47:53 2022
    And there are advantages for others: no tow pilots are harmed during their launch, they
    don't make the wait for tows any longer, contests don't need to find as many extra tow
    planes, and some of the motorglider pilots are tow pilots that don't mind making tows,
    because even if they are the only tow pilot that day, they will still get to fly. And
    since they are more likely to get home, they (or their crew) are available for retrieves.

    In our Region, motorglider pilots are generally very experienced in XC, contest, and
    record flying, and have been (or are) SSA directors, club officials, state governors,
    instructors, tow pilots, contest directors/managers. I think it's the same elsewhere in
    the country. Most people know this, of course.

    On 9/14/2022 5:43 AM, andy l wrote:
    As I already suggested, on a good day the launch can be half to two per cent of the flight

    When you see something circling a mile or two away, you can't tell the difference

    On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 23:13:53 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and leaves
    such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jfitch@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Sep 14 14:15:44 2022
    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and leaves
    such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist "

    Fixed it for you:

    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, <b> I believe that </b> the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that <b> I
    believe </b> depredates the sport and leaves such a unpalatable impression <b> for me</b>. Old Bob, The <b> Pawnee </b> Purist"

    It may be hard to believe at such a stratospheric ego level, but you are not the arbiter of soaring purity. Your self appointment to this roll is tiresome. If anything is leaving an unpalatable impression about soaring, it is your posts here. If you want
    pure flight without assistance, base jumping without a parachute is the only way - give it a try.
    On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:13:53 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:25:01 PM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
    How about a radical innovation, if you must have a category split? On here, divide discussion into the launch, and the rest of the flight

    It is beyond absurd that so much of the protracted squabbling on here is devoted to the first one to six or seven minutes, and the quality of the rest is common to all of us

    Oh sure, sometimes those motors bring people home instead of landing in a field. Flying non powered club gliders, I've landed out twice this year, not far away. And I've retrieved some friends. Do I have a chip on my shoulder about motorgliders like
    you have? No. And I don't understand why you have either. Please don't try to explain it though, we've seen enough.
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 12:57:01 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and leaves
    such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to jfitch on Wed Sep 14 15:30:30 2022
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 5:15:46 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and leaves
    such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist "
    Fixed it for you:

    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, <b> I believe that </b> the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that <b> I
    believe </b> depredates the sport and leaves such a unpalatable impression <b> for me</b>. Old Bob, The <b> Pawnee </b> Purist"

    It may be hard to believe at such a stratospheric ego level, but you are not the arbiter of soaring purity. Your self appointment to this roll is tiresome. If anything is leaving an unpalatable impression about soaring, it is your posts here. If you
    want pure flight without assistance, base jumping without a parachute is the only way - give it a try.
    On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:13:53 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:25:01 PM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
    How about a radical innovation, if you must have a category split? On here, divide discussion into the launch, and the rest of the flight

    It is beyond absurd that so much of the protracted squabbling on here is devoted to the first one to six or seven minutes, and the quality of the rest is common to all of us

    Oh sure, sometimes those motors bring people home instead of landing in a field. Flying non powered club gliders, I've landed out twice this year, not far away. And I've retrieved some friends. Do I have a chip on my shoulder about motorgliders
    like you have? No. And I don't understand why you have either. Please don't try to explain it though, we've seen enough.
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 12:57:01 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and leaves
    such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, please don't fold under the pressure, yet once again the truth hurts you guys with motors, come on, loosen up and enjoy the ride. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Sep 15 16:47:28 2022
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 3:30:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 5:15:46 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and leaves
    such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist "
    Fixed it for you:

    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, <b> I believe that </b> the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that <b> I
    believe </b> depredates the sport and leaves such a unpalatable impression <b> for me</b>. Old Bob, The <b> Pawnee </b> Purist"

    It may be hard to believe at such a stratospheric ego level, but you are not the arbiter of soaring purity. Your self appointment to this roll is tiresome. If anything is leaving an unpalatable impression about soaring, it is your posts here. If you
    want pure flight without assistance, base jumping without a parachute is the only way - give it a try.
    On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:13:53 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:25:01 PM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
    How about a radical innovation, if you must have a category split? On here, divide discussion into the launch, and the rest of the flight

    It is beyond absurd that so much of the protracted squabbling on here is devoted to the first one to six or seven minutes, and the quality of the rest is common to all of us

    Oh sure, sometimes those motors bring people home instead of landing in a field. Flying non powered club gliders, I've landed out twice this year, not far away. And I've retrieved some friends. Do I have a chip on my shoulder about motorgliders
    like you have? No. And I don't understand why you have either. Please don't try to explain it though, we've seen enough.
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 12:57:01 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and
    leaves such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, please don't fold under the pressure, yet once again the truth hurts you guys with motors, come on, loosen up and enjoy the ride. Old Bob, The Purist

    Hey PottyMouth Bobbie, I can launch from ANY airport, so my future is GREAT! Yours sounds uncertain, however, especially your mental health (or the lack of it).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Charles Longley@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 16 18:24:36 2022
    On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 4:47:30 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 3:30:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 5:15:46 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and
    leaves such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist "
    Fixed it for you:

    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, <b> I believe that </b> the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that <b> I
    believe </b> depredates the sport and leaves such a unpalatable impression <b> for me</b>. Old Bob, The <b> Pawnee </b> Purist"

    It may be hard to believe at such a stratospheric ego level, but you are not the arbiter of soaring purity. Your self appointment to this roll is tiresome. If anything is leaving an unpalatable impression about soaring, it is your posts here. If
    you want pure flight without assistance, base jumping without a parachute is the only way - give it a try.
    On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:13:53 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:25:01 PM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
    How about a radical innovation, if you must have a category split? On here, divide discussion into the launch, and the rest of the flight

    It is beyond absurd that so much of the protracted squabbling on here is devoted to the first one to six or seven minutes, and the quality of the rest is common to all of us

    Oh sure, sometimes those motors bring people home instead of landing in a field. Flying non powered club gliders, I've landed out twice this year, not far away. And I've retrieved some friends. Do I have a chip on my shoulder about motorgliders
    like you have? No. And I don't understand why you have either. Please don't try to explain it though, we've seen enough.
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 12:57:01 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and
    leaves such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, please don't fold under the pressure, yet once again the truth hurts you guys with motors, come on, loosen up and enjoy the ride. Old Bob, The Purist
    Hey PottyMouth Bobbie, I can launch from ANY airport, so my future is GREAT! Yours sounds uncertain, however, especially your mental health (or the lack of it).
    His future is certain. I’ll fly my Super Cub to Florida and launch him if necessary. Some of you motor glider guys are total dicks. The purest have each other’s backs.

    Charlie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Charles Longley@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 16 18:26:55 2022
    On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 4:47:30 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 3:30:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 5:15:46 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and
    leaves such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist "
    Fixed it for you:

    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, <b> I believe that </b> the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that <b> I
    believe </b> depredates the sport and leaves such a unpalatable impression <b> for me</b>. Old Bob, The <b> Pawnee </b> Purist"

    It may be hard to believe at such a stratospheric ego level, but you are not the arbiter of soaring purity. Your self appointment to this roll is tiresome. If anything is leaving an unpalatable impression about soaring, it is your posts here. If
    you want pure flight without assistance, base jumping without a parachute is the only way - give it a try.
    On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:13:53 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:25:01 PM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
    How about a radical innovation, if you must have a category split? On here, divide discussion into the launch, and the rest of the flight

    It is beyond absurd that so much of the protracted squabbling on here is devoted to the first one to six or seven minutes, and the quality of the rest is common to all of us

    Oh sure, sometimes those motors bring people home instead of landing in a field. Flying non powered club gliders, I've landed out twice this year, not far away. And I've retrieved some friends. Do I have a chip on my shoulder about motorgliders
    like you have? No. And I don't understand why you have either. Please don't try to explain it though, we've seen enough.
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 12:57:01 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and
    leaves such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, please don't fold under the pressure, yet once again the truth hurts you guys with motors, come on, loosen up and enjoy the ride. Old Bob, The Purist
    Hey PottyMouth Bobbie, I can launch from ANY airport, so my future is GREAT! Yours sounds uncertain, however, especially your mental health (or the lack of it).
    His future is certain. I’ll fly my Super Cub to Florida and launch him if necessary. Some of you motor glider guys are total dicks. The purist have each other’s backs.

    Charlie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Sep 18 09:32:43 2022
    On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 6:26:56 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 4:47:30 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 3:30:32 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 5:15:46 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and
    leaves such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist "
    Fixed it for you:

    "Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, <b> I believe that </b> the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that <b>
    I believe </b> depredates the sport and leaves such a unpalatable impression <b> for me</b>. Old Bob, The <b> Pawnee </b> Purist"

    It may be hard to believe at such a stratospheric ego level, but you are not the arbiter of soaring purity. Your self appointment to this roll is tiresome. If anything is leaving an unpalatable impression about soaring, it is your posts here. If
    you want pure flight without assistance, base jumping without a parachute is the only way - give it a try.
    On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:13:53 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:25:01 PM UTC-4, andy l wrote:
    How about a radical innovation, if you must have a category split? On here, divide discussion into the launch, and the rest of the flight

    It is beyond absurd that so much of the protracted squabbling on here is devoted to the first one to six or seven minutes, and the quality of the rest is common to all of us

    Oh sure, sometimes those motors bring people home instead of landing in a field. Flying non powered club gliders, I've landed out twice this year, not far away. And I've retrieved some friends. Do I have a chip on my shoulder about
    motorgliders like you have? No. And I don't understand why you have either. Please don't try to explain it though, we've seen enough.
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 12:57:01 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:

    Bumper, whether he realizes it or not has basically described why soaring should be divided into two categories, A-Purist Gliders, and, B-Powered Assisted Gliders.
    Andy, thanks for the info on your point of view concerning Motorgliders, I can give you some help and we can start with the basics. Rule number 1, the Motorglider is not a pure form of flight, it is a convenience that depredates the sport and
    leaves such a unpalatable impression. Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, please don't fold under the pressure, yet once again the truth hurts you guys with motors, come on, loosen up and enjoy the ride. Old Bob, The Purist
    Hey PottyMouth Bobbie, I can launch from ANY airport, so my future is GREAT! Yours sounds uncertain, however, especially your mental health (or the lack of it).
    His future is certain. I’ll fly my Super Cub to Florida and launch him if necessary. Some of you motor glider guys are total dicks. The purist have each other’s backs.

    Charlie

    And you will burn HOW MANY gallons of fuel to PROVE that you are a so-called "purist?"

    Tom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)