• ASH-26/31Mi owners group?

    From John Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 18 11:38:12 2022
    I'm purchasing a ASH-31Mi and furiously trying to absorb as much as I can before visiting Williams for training and MG endorsement. I heard there was a -26/31 google group but the GG "ASH-26E" link didn't work for me. Is there a relevant owners group
    for AS MG's?

    I got through the POH and starting in now on Eric's great guide. Hoping to find a source to tap into -26/31 owner insights.

    thx, JJ

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  • From Craig Reinholt@21:1/5 to John Johnson on Mon Jul 18 13:04:54 2022
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 11:38:14 AM UTC-7, John Johnson wrote:
    I'm purchasing a ASH-31Mi and furiously trying to absorb as much as I can before visiting Williams for training and MG endorsement. I heard there was a -26/31 google group but the GG "ASH-26E" link didn't work for me. Is there a relevant owners group
    for AS MG's?

    I got through the POH and starting in now on Eric's great guide. Hoping to find a source to tap into -26/31 owner insights.

    thx, JJ
    John,
    Contact Tom Serkowski (or Eric Greenwell?) for access to the Schleicher motorglider google group.
    https://groups.google.com/g/ash-26e

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jul 18 13:52:09 2022
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 4:04:56 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 11:38:14 AM UTC-7, John Johnson wrote:
    I'm purchasing a ASH-31Mi and furiously trying to absorb as much as I can before visiting Williams for training and MG endorsement. I heard there was a -26/31 google group but the GG "ASH-26E" link didn't work for me. Is there a relevant owners group
    for AS MG's?

    I got through the POH and starting in now on Eric's great guide. Hoping to find a source to tap into -26/31 owner insights.

    thx, JJ
    John,
    Contact Tom Serkowski (or Eric Greenwell?) for access to the Schleicher motorglider google group.
    https://groups.google.com/g/ash-26e
    Please contact them, at the Motorglider hang out. Old Bob, The Purist

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  • From John Johnson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jul 18 15:31:02 2022
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:04:56 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 11:38:14 AM UTC-7, John Johnson wrote:
    I'm purchasing a ASH-31Mi and furiously trying to absorb as much as I can before visiting Williams for training and MG endorsement. I heard there was a -26/31 google group but the GG "ASH-26E" link didn't work for me. Is there a relevant owners group
    for AS MG's?

    I got through the POH and starting in now on Eric's great guide. Hoping to find a source to tap into -26/31 owner insights.

    thx, JJ
    John,
    Contact Tom Serkowski (or Eric Greenwell?) for access to the Schleicher motorglider google group.
    https://groups.google.com/g/ash-26e
    Tom got me signed up - thanks!

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  • From John Johnson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jul 18 15:57:45 2022
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:52:10 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 4:04:56 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 11:38:14 AM UTC-7, John Johnson wrote:
    I'm purchasing a ASH-31Mi and furiously trying to absorb as much as I can before visiting Williams for training and MG endorsement. I heard there was a -26/31 google group but the GG "ASH-26E" link didn't work for me. Is there a relevant owners
    group for AS MG's?

    I got through the POH and starting in now on Eric's great guide. Hoping to find a source to tap into -26/31 owner insights.

    thx, JJ
    John,
    Contact Tom Serkowski (or Eric Greenwell?) for access to the Schleicher motorglider google group.
    https://groups.google.com/g/ash-26e
    Please contact them, at the Motorglider hang out. Old Bob, The Purist

    So Bob, I've only been at this gliding thing a short while and have read your purist posts with a mixture of amusement and sympathetic support. In my hang gliding days, I was that hard core purist. I could not stand ultralights (still don't like them).
    In fact, I even scoffed at launching with a truck-mounted payout winch (and don't get me started with ultralight tug aerotows). I was of the view that you had to pay your dues by 4-wheeling up a mountain in the back of an over-loaded pickup bed
    hanging on for dear life through the dust and battering on the way to a marginal downwind foot launch plunge off a cliff. I did eventually sample alternate launch methods and grudgingly admit there was some fun there. But I have never once piloted
    anything with a motor. The -31 (or rather Rex's -32) will be my first.

    So, this -31Mi was a dang difficult decision for me and I still harbor concerns that it was a good decision. For goodness sakes - I just realized I now need to buy a noise blocking headset - WHAT? Not only have I abandoned any purist pretense, but now
    I find myself in the indefensible position of defending MG's against claims of unfair advantage. I've gone to the dark side and soon my hands will smell like oil and avgas. May God have mercy on my soul.

    JJ

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jul 19 14:04:19 2022
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.

    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to John Johnson on Tue Jul 19 13:47:49 2022
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 6:57:46 PM UTC-4, John Johnson wrote:
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:52:10 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 4:04:56 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 11:38:14 AM UTC-7, John Johnson wrote:
    I'm purchasing a ASH-31Mi and furiously trying to absorb as much as I can before visiting Williams for training and MG endorsement. I heard there was a -26/31 google group but the GG "ASH-26E" link didn't work for me. Is there a relevant owners
    group for AS MG's?

    I got through the POH and starting in now on Eric's great guide. Hoping to find a source to tap into -26/31 owner insights.

    thx, JJ
    John,
    Contact Tom Serkowski (or Eric Greenwell?) for access to the Schleicher motorglider google group.
    https://groups.google.com/g/ash-26e
    Please contact them, at the Motorglider hang out. Old Bob, The Purist
    So Bob, I've only been at this gliding thing a short while and have read your purist posts with a mixture of amusement and sympathetic support. In my hang gliding days, I was that hard core purist. I could not stand ultralights (still don't like them).
    In fact, I even scoffed at launching with a truck-mounted payout winch (and don't get me started with ultralight tug aerotows). I was of the view that you had to pay your dues by 4-wheeling up a mountain in the back of an over-loaded pickup bed hanging
    on for dear life through the dust and battering on the way to a marginal downwind foot launch plunge off a cliff. I did eventually sample alternate launch methods and grudgingly admit there was some fun there. But I have never once piloted anything with
    a motor. The -31 (or rather Rex's -32) will be my first.

    So, this -31Mi was a dang difficult decision for me and I still harbor concerns that it was a good decision. For goodness sakes - I just realized I now need to buy a noise blocking headset - WHAT? Not only have I abandoned any purist pretense, but now
    I find myself in the indefensible position of defending MG's against claims of unfair advantage. I've gone to the dark side and soon my hands will smell like oil and avgas. May God have mercy on my soul.

    JJ
    JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn, just ain't what it should be! You like myself, have been doing this gig for quiet some time, contrary to Uncle Tom's claim that
    I don't know much about motorgliders, you may be quiet surprised. I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air
    freshener for the motorglider. Most of my friends are going to the dark side, yet I am saving big bucks on Christmas and holiday cards, they are off the list.
    I am thinking about writing a book about, "Motorglider Syndrome", I should be very interesting at the conclusions that I may draw. Now JJ, if you are ever in Florida, please be my guest, you can fly that contraption off my strip at home, we will have
    great dinners and after flight refreshments, I might even introduce you to Gov. DeSantis.
    If you see Rex and Noel please tell them that I have blessed you decision to go to the dark side, and the Eileen, AKA, Aunt Cathy and I will be out west soon and will stop in and say hello maybe Eileen will fly there again. OBTP

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  • From 2G@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Tue Jul 19 14:59:32 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:04:24 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    The greatest hypocrisy of all comes from someone who calls himself a "purist" as he cranks up his 230hp Pawnee. At sea level it only takes about a half gallon of gas per launch in my 31Mi - how much do you burn in that Pawnee? And, while you're at it,
    how is the search for a new airstrip going? I can take my 31Mi to ANY public use airport and fly (within reason - Seatac would not want me there, and I wouldn't want to be there).
    ,
    John, you made an excellent choice in buying the 31Mi, and will enjoy the hell out of it. My only complaint is that I can't seem to help but to get some oil on my hands when refilling the oil reservoir. But that is a tiny price to pay for independence.
    Refueling is a dream if you got the automatic refueling pump option.

    If you haven't purchased your ground support equipment yet contact me privately for some advice.

    Tom

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Tue Jul 19 14:58:30 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:04:24 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, just the other day I opened a trailer with a very nice motorglider in it, I was almost taken down by the fumes, it smelled like an oil tanker from Kuwait. I know that you MG guys are in denial, but really, glad someone did not strike a match it
    would have blown up like the Hoover Dam.
    On another note I have been given some top secret information about one of our PURIST guys from out west going over to the dark side, I certainly hope that my info is not validated. OBTP

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jul 19 15:17:45 2022
    On 7/19/2022 2:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:04:24 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, just the other day I opened a trailer with a very nice motorglider in it, I was almost taken down by the fumes, it smelled like an oil tanker from Kuwait. I know that you MG guys are in denial, but really, glad someone did not strike a match it
    would have blown up like the Hoover Dam.
    On another note I have been given some top secret information about one of our PURIST guys from out west going over to the dark side, I certainly hope that my info is not validated. OBTP

    There should be no oil or gas odor in the motorglider trailer, any more than there would
    be an oil and gas odor in a hangar with an airplane, or a car in a garage. A stench in any
    case is an indication of a leakage or spillage problem, and the owner should be informed
    about it immediately, before there is an accident.

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From Dan Marotta@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 19 16:30:02 2022
    I use rubber gloves when fueling my Stemme and my gyro. No gas smell on
    my hands, just from my shirt and pants from all the spillage...

    Dan
    5J

    On 7/19/22 15:59, 2G wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:04:24 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    The greatest hypocrisy of all comes from someone who calls himself a "purist" as he cranks up his 230hp Pawnee. At sea level it only takes about a half gallon of gas per launch in my 31Mi - how much do you burn in that Pawnee? And, while you're at it,
    how is the search for a new airstrip going? I can take my 31Mi to ANY public use airport and fly (within reason - Seatac would not want me there, and I wouldn't want to be there).
    ,
    John, you made an excellent choice in buying the 31Mi, and will enjoy the hell out of it. My only complaint is that I can't seem to help but to get some oil on my hands when refilling the oil reservoir. But that is a tiny price to pay for independence.
    Refueling is a dream if you got the automatic refueling pump option.

    If you haven't purchased your ground support equipment yet contact me privately for some advice.

    Tom

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 19 15:23:00 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:59:34 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:04:24 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    The greatest hypocrisy of all comes from someone who calls himself a "purist" as he cranks up his 230hp Pawnee. At sea level it only takes about a half gallon of gas per launch in my 31Mi - how much do you burn in that Pawnee? And, while you're at it,
    how is the search for a new airstrip going? I can take my 31Mi to ANY public use airport and fly (within reason - Seatac would not want me there, and I wouldn't want to be there).
    ,
    John, you made an excellent choice in buying the 31Mi, and will enjoy the hell out of it. My only complaint is that I can't seem to help but to get some oil on my hands when refilling the oil reservoir. But that is a tiny price to pay for independence.
    Refueling is a dream if you got the automatic refueling pump option.

    If you haven't purchased your ground support equipment yet contact me privately for some advice.

    Tom
    Ok dumbass, my Pawnee is not 230 hp, once again you do not know what you are talking about. That Pawnee, AKA, Towpecker, makes many more people happier than you do! The new strip is going just fine, I put my money where my mouth is, no wonder Seatac
    doesn't want you there , your reputation precedes your appearance. OBTP

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Dan Marotta on Tue Jul 19 15:35:32 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:30:06 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
    I use rubber gloves when fueling my Stemme and my gyro. No gas smell on
    my hands, just from my shirt and pants from all the spillage...

    Dan
    5J
    On 7/19/22 15:59, 2G wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:04:24 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    The greatest hypocrisy of all comes from someone who calls himself a "purist" as he cranks up his 230hp Pawnee. At sea level it only takes about a half gallon of gas per launch in my 31Mi - how much do you burn in that Pawnee? And, while you're at it,
    how is the search for a new airstrip going? I can take my 31Mi to ANY public use airport and fly (within reason - Seatac would not want me there, and I wouldn't want to be there).
    ,
    John, you made an excellent choice in buying the 31Mi, and will enjoy the hell out of it. My only complaint is that I can't seem to help but to get some oil on my hands when refilling the oil reservoir. But that is a tiny price to pay for
    independence. Refueling is a dream if you got the automatic refueling pump option.

    If you haven't purchased your ground support equipment yet contact me privately for some advice.

    Tom
    I really like to get things rolling here again, it has been so boring with the sailplanes on Mars post. What we need is Fitch back, I will forgive him on the 60 day go straight to jail sentence, kind of like a directed verdict from the bench! Come on
    guys, "Let's Get Ready To Rumble"! Old Bob, THE PURIST!

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  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jul 19 18:19:32 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 3:23:02 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:59:34 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:04:24 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    The greatest hypocrisy of all comes from someone who calls himself a "purist" as he cranks up his 230hp Pawnee. At sea level it only takes about a half gallon of gas per launch in my 31Mi - how much do you burn in that Pawnee? And, while you're at it,
    how is the search for a new airstrip going? I can take my 31Mi to ANY public use airport and fly (within reason - Seatac would not want me there, and I wouldn't want to be there).
    ,
    John, you made an excellent choice in buying the 31Mi, and will enjoy the hell out of it. My only complaint is that I can't seem to help but to get some oil on my hands when refilling the oil reservoir. But that is a tiny price to pay for
    independence. Refueling is a dream if you got the automatic refueling pump option.

    If you haven't purchased your ground support equipment yet contact me privately for some advice.

    Tom
    Ok dumbass, my Pawnee is not 230 hp, once again you do not know what you are talking about. That Pawnee, AKA, Towpecker, makes many more people happier than you do! The new strip is going just fine, I put my money where my mouth is, no wonder Seatac
    doesn't want you there , your reputation precedes your appearance. OBTP

    LOL! Then WHAT is it, Peckerhead? And HOW MUCH gas do you use on a glider launch? You SHOULD know this...

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  • From John Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 19 19:01:45 2022
    JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn

    I can't take that the wrong way - its damn funny and kinda fits :-) I think I'd enjoy having a beer or 3 with you, Bob.

    I'll never argue against a rigorous purist vs MG debate. I see both sides and, frankly learned a lot from the sometimes heated arguments I've read here. I guess that makes me an independent (which is a tough path for a conservative in AZ these days).

    JJ

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to John Johnson on Wed Jul 20 03:57:44 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:01:49 PM UTC-4, John Johnson wrote:
    JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn
    I can't take that the wrong way - its damn funny and kinda fits :-) I think I'd enjoy having a beer or 3 with you, Bob.

    I'll never argue against a rigorous purist vs MG debate. I see both sides and, frankly learned a lot from the sometimes heated arguments I've read here. I guess that makes me an independent (which is a tough path for a conservative in AZ these days).

    JJ
    A purist would have hiked up that mountain, and not taken the ride in the bed of the pickup. In buying the MG you were simply coming out of the closet.

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jul 20 04:14:05 2022
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 6:57:46 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:01:49 PM UTC-4, John Johnson wrote:
    JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn
    I can't take that the wrong way - its damn funny and kinda fits :-) I think I'd enjoy having a beer or 3 with you, Bob.

    I'll never argue against a rigorous purist vs MG debate. I see both sides and, frankly learned a lot from the sometimes heated arguments I've read here. I guess that makes me an independent (which is a tough path for a conservative in AZ these days).

    JJ
    A purist would have hiked up that mountain, and not taken the ride in the bed of the pickup. In buying the MG you were simply coming out of the closet.
    We must jive JJ a break on hitching a ride to the top of the mountain, with that in mind it gave him much more flying time. I do have respect for the hang glider guy and gals, when they come on over to the pure glider they seem to do very well, they do
    know something about thermaling and finding lift. Unfortunately we don't have mountains in south Florida and they do use a ultralight tug for towing. They have some type of camp or commune up near Seminole Lake, I have spotted them on a couple of flights
    pretty far down south from there.
    I never miss the opportunity to poke the MG owners a bit, some of them have very thin skin and go ballistic at the remarks, while the good guys just laugh and throw a few curveballs back. Now about having a beer with JJ, that would be a great event, next
    time I am in AZ or you in Fl, we must make that happen. OBTP

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  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jul 20 19:26:58 2022
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:14:07 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 6:57:46 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:01:49 PM UTC-4, John Johnson wrote:
    JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn
    I can't take that the wrong way - its damn funny and kinda fits :-) I think I'd enjoy having a beer or 3 with you, Bob.

    I'll never argue against a rigorous purist vs MG debate. I see both sides and, frankly learned a lot from the sometimes heated arguments I've read here. I guess that makes me an independent (which is a tough path for a conservative in AZ these days)
    .

    JJ
    A purist would have hiked up that mountain, and not taken the ride in the bed of the pickup. In buying the MG you were simply coming out of the closet.
    We must jive JJ a break on hitching a ride to the top of the mountain, with that in mind it gave him much more flying time. I do have respect for the hang glider guy and gals, when they come on over to the pure glider they seem to do very well, they do
    know something about thermaling and finding lift. Unfortunately we don't have mountains in south Florida and they do use a ultralight tug for towing. They have some type of camp or commune up near Seminole Lake, I have spotted them on a couple of flights
    pretty far down south from there.
    I never miss the opportunity to poke the MG owners a bit, some of them have very thin skin and go ballistic at the remarks, while the good guys just laugh and throw a few curveballs back. Now about having a beer with JJ, that would be a great event,
    next time I am in AZ or you in Fl, we must make that happen. OBTP

    Hey Bob, the NOT so purist, when you use a fucking engine it doesn't matter WHERE the engine is! Now, try getting your ASW24 airborne WITHOUT an engine - that would truly be a sight to behold.

    Tom

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  • From AS@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 21 05:49:24 2022
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 10:27:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:14:07 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 6:57:46 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:01:49 PM UTC-4, John Johnson wrote:
    JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn
    I can't take that the wrong way - its damn funny and kinda fits :-) I think I'd enjoy having a beer or 3 with you, Bob.

    I'll never argue against a rigorous purist vs MG debate. I see both sides and, frankly learned a lot from the sometimes heated arguments I've read here. I guess that makes me an independent (which is a tough path for a conservative in AZ these
    days).

    JJ
    A purist would have hiked up that mountain, and not taken the ride in the bed of the pickup. In buying the MG you were simply coming out of the closet.
    We must jive JJ a break on hitching a ride to the top of the mountain, with that in mind it gave him much more flying time. I do have respect for the hang glider guy and gals, when they come on over to the pure glider they seem to do very well, they
    do know something about thermaling and finding lift. Unfortunately we don't have mountains in south Florida and they do use a ultralight tug for towing. They have some type of camp or commune up near Seminole Lake, I have spotted them on a couple of
    flights pretty far down south from there.
    I never miss the opportunity to poke the MG owners a bit, some of them have very thin skin and go ballistic at the remarks, while the good guys just laugh and throw a few curveballs back. Now about having a beer with JJ, that would be a great event,
    next time I am in AZ or you in Fl, we must make that happen. OBTP
    Hey Bob, the NOT so purist, when you use a fucking engine it doesn't matter WHERE the engine is! Now, try getting your ASW24 airborne WITHOUT an engine - that would truly be a sight to behold.

    Tom

    ... airborne WITHOUT an engine - that would truly be a sight to behold. << Couldn't agree more! This is a sight to behold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbRAqPxd49E
    Rare - but not impossible.

    Uli
    'AS'

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank Whiteley@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 21 07:48:24 2022
    On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:49:26 AM UTC-6, AS wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 10:27:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:14:07 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 6:57:46 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:01:49 PM UTC-4, John Johnson wrote:
    JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn
    I can't take that the wrong way - its damn funny and kinda fits :-) I think I'd enjoy having a beer or 3 with you, Bob.

    I'll never argue against a rigorous purist vs MG debate. I see both sides and, frankly learned a lot from the sometimes heated arguments I've read here. I guess that makes me an independent (which is a tough path for a conservative in AZ these
    days).

    JJ
    A purist would have hiked up that mountain, and not taken the ride in the bed of the pickup. In buying the MG you were simply coming out of the closet.
    We must jive JJ a break on hitching a ride to the top of the mountain, with that in mind it gave him much more flying time. I do have respect for the hang glider guy and gals, when they come on over to the pure glider they seem to do very well,
    they do know something about thermaling and finding lift. Unfortunately we don't have mountains in south Florida and they do use a ultralight tug for towing. They have some type of camp or commune up near Seminole Lake, I have spotted them on a couple of
    flights pretty far down south from there.
    I never miss the opportunity to poke the MG owners a bit, some of them have very thin skin and go ballistic at the remarks, while the good guys just laugh and throw a few curveballs back. Now about having a beer with JJ, that would be a great event,
    next time I am in AZ or you in Fl, we must make that happen. OBTP
    Hey Bob, the NOT so purist, when you use a fucking engine it doesn't matter WHERE the engine is! Now, try getting your ASW24 airborne WITHOUT an engine - that would truly be a sight to behold.

    Tom
    ... airborne WITHOUT an engine - that would truly be a sight to behold. <<
    Couldn't agree more! This is a sight to behold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbRAqPxd49E
    Rare - but not impossible.

    Uli
    'AS'
    Not possible for Florida, though I recall a crazy discussion about building a soaring ridge across part of the UK. Maybe it was while they were looking for places to put the diggings from the chunnel.

    Several years ago, Mark Z. almost had Six Flags Houston set to offer winch launches with a Duo Discus (?) as a ride concession. That's what Marc R. and Bob K. had plans to do along I-80 in California. Both might have attracted attention to soaring.

    The previews of MI4 (July 2023) have glider scenes.

    It would be nice to get some media coverage (beyond social media) for the WGC2024 in Uvalde.

    Frank Whiteley

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AS@21:1/5 to Frank Whiteley on Thu Jul 21 08:55:15 2022
    On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 10:48:26 AM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:
    On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:49:26 AM UTC-6, AS wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 10:27:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:14:07 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 6:57:46 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:01:49 PM UTC-4, John Johnson wrote:
    JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn
    I can't take that the wrong way - its damn funny and kinda fits :-) I think I'd enjoy having a beer or 3 with you, Bob.

    I'll never argue against a rigorous purist vs MG debate. I see both sides and, frankly learned a lot from the sometimes heated arguments I've read here. I guess that makes me an independent (which is a tough path for a conservative in AZ
    these days).

    JJ
    A purist would have hiked up that mountain, and not taken the ride in the bed of the pickup. In buying the MG you were simply coming out of the closet.
    We must jive JJ a break on hitching a ride to the top of the mountain, with that in mind it gave him much more flying time. I do have respect for the hang glider guy and gals, when they come on over to the pure glider they seem to do very well,
    they do know something about thermaling and finding lift. Unfortunately we don't have mountains in south Florida and they do use a ultralight tug for towing. They have some type of camp or commune up near Seminole Lake, I have spotted them on a couple of
    flights pretty far down south from there.
    I never miss the opportunity to poke the MG owners a bit, some of them have very thin skin and go ballistic at the remarks, while the good guys just laugh and throw a few curveballs back. Now about having a beer with JJ, that would be a great
    event, next time I am in AZ or you in Fl, we must make that happen. OBTP
    Hey Bob, the NOT so purist, when you use a fucking engine it doesn't matter WHERE the engine is! Now, try getting your ASW24 airborne WITHOUT an engine - that would truly be a sight to behold.

    Tom
    ... airborne WITHOUT an engine - that would truly be a sight to behold. <<
    Couldn't agree more! This is a sight to behold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbRAqPxd49E
    Rare - but not impossible.

    Uli
    'AS'
    Not possible for Florida, though I recall a crazy discussion about building a soaring ridge across part of the UK. Maybe it was while they were looking for places to put the diggings from the chunnel.

    Several years ago, Mark Z. almost had Six Flags Houston set to offer winch launches with a Duo Discus (?) as a ride concession. That's what Marc R. and Bob K. had plans to do along I-80 in California. Both might have attracted attention to soaring.

    The previews of MI4 (July 2023) have glider scenes.

    It would be nice to get some media coverage (beyond social media) for the WGC2024 in Uvalde.

    Frank Whiteley

    Ahh - yes, FL, where the highest elevation can be measured with a roll-up tape. Can't have it all, I guess ;-)
    ... though I recall a crazy discussion about building a soaring ridge across part of the UK. <<
    There was an 'April-fools Day' article in a German aviation magazine decades ago about a proposed XC-soaring park in Saudi-Arabia. An aviation enthusiastic Sheik was said to plan a gas pipeline with remote controlled burners to create lift when needed
    while flying along that 300k or 500k triangular course.

    Uli
    'AS'

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jfitch@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jul 21 22:05:41 2022
    Well, Bob, you got your wish! I happen to be anchored this evening within range of a WiFi spot run by the NPS here in Glacier Bay.

    JJ - don't pay any attention to Old Bob. He has admitted to no cross country experience in motorgliders, so his opinion is as well informed as asking a 12 year old virgin for advice in bed with Marilyn Monroe. Doesn't stop him from loudly and repeatedly
    offering such advice though. There is a big difference between hang gliders and ultralights (and yes, I flew hang gliders for many years in the early days of them) - it is not at all comparable to Pawnee launched gliders vs self launched. The hang
    gliders I flew might more correctly be described as "pure", in that we ran off of a mountain with them. The "pure" gliders that Bob keeps banging on about require a Pawnee to launch them, and a Suburban to retrieve them from a field somewhere. With that
    kind of support infrastructure required to operate them, "pure" doesn't fit.

    After flying a couple of seasons with your 31, you will have to come back here and tell us how your flying has changed. I'll wager it will be in none of the "conclusions" that Bob is writing in his new book.

    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:35:34 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:30:06 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
    I use rubber gloves when fueling my Stemme and my gyro. No gas smell on
    my hands, just from my shirt and pants from all the spillage...

    Dan
    5J
    On 7/19/22 15:59, 2G wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:04:24 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    The greatest hypocrisy of all comes from someone who calls himself a "purist" as he cranks up his 230hp Pawnee. At sea level it only takes about a half gallon of gas per launch in my 31Mi - how much do you burn in that Pawnee? And, while you're at
    it, how is the search for a new airstrip going? I can take my 31Mi to ANY public use airport and fly (within reason - Seatac would not want me there, and I wouldn't want to be there).
    ,
    John, you made an excellent choice in buying the 31Mi, and will enjoy the hell out of it. My only complaint is that I can't seem to help but to get some oil on my hands when refilling the oil reservoir. But that is a tiny price to pay for
    independence. Refueling is a dream if you got the automatic refueling pump option.

    If you haven't purchased your ground support equipment yet contact me privately for some advice.

    Tom
    I really like to get things rolling here again, it has been so boring with the sailplanes on Mars post. What we need is Fitch back, I will forgive him on the 60 day go straight to jail sentence, kind of like a directed verdict from the bench! Come on
    guys, "Let's Get Ready To Rumble"! Old Bob, THE PURIST!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to jfitch on Fri Jul 22 04:48:31 2022
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 1:05:43 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    Well, Bob, you got your wish! I happen to be anchored this evening within range of a WiFi spot run by the NPS here in Glacier Bay.

    JJ - don't pay any attention to Old Bob. He has admitted to no cross country experience in motorgliders, so his opinion is as well informed as asking a 12 year old virgin for advice in bed with Marilyn Monroe. Doesn't stop him from loudly and
    repeatedly offering such advice though. There is a big difference between hang gliders and ultralights (and yes, I flew hang gliders for many years in the early days of them) - it is not at all comparable to Pawnee launched gliders vs self launched. The
    hang gliders I flew might more correctly be described as "pure", in that we ran off of a mountain with them. The "pure" gliders that Bob keeps banging on about require a Pawnee to launch them, and a Suburban to retrieve them from a field somewhere. With
    that kind of support infrastructure required to operate them, "pure" doesn't fit.

    After flying a couple of seasons with your 31, you will have to come back here and tell us how your flying has changed. I'll wager it will be in none of the "conclusions" that Bob is writing in his new book.
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:35:34 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:30:06 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
    I use rubber gloves when fueling my Stemme and my gyro. No gas smell on my hands, just from my shirt and pants from all the spillage...

    Dan
    5J
    On 7/19/22 15:59, 2G wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:04:24 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    The greatest hypocrisy of all comes from someone who calls himself a "purist" as he cranks up his 230hp Pawnee. At sea level it only takes about a half gallon of gas per launch in my 31Mi - how much do you burn in that Pawnee? And, while you're
    at it, how is the search for a new airstrip going? I can take my 31Mi to ANY public use airport and fly (within reason - Seatac would not want me there, and I wouldn't want to be there).
    ,
    John, you made an excellent choice in buying the 31Mi, and will enjoy the hell out of it. My only complaint is that I can't seem to help but to get some oil on my hands when refilling the oil reservoir. But that is a tiny price to pay for
    independence. Refueling is a dream if you got the automatic refueling pump option.

    If you haven't purchased your ground support equipment yet contact me privately for some advice.

    Tom
    I really like to get things rolling here again, it has been so boring with the sailplanes on Mars post. What we need is Fitch back, I will forgive him on the 60 day go straight to jail sentence, kind of like a directed verdict from the bench! Come on
    guys, "Let's Get Ready To Rumble"! Old Bob, THE PURIST!
    Fitch, I was beginning to get worried about you, your absence, had me on pins and needles! Please refrain from dumping your black water into the bay, I certainly know how nasty you motorglider guys are and please don't kill the whales. Now there you go
    trying to poison JJ about us dedicated PURIST, he seems to have a better understanding of the purist aspect than most.
    Anyway, it is good to see you making a post and I am relieved that you are safe and sound. I guess you will be heading back to that liberal infested area of Washington soon, safe travels and try not to trick your logger on the way home. Your favorite
    adversary, Old Bob, The Purist.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jul 22 08:08:10 2022
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 4:48:33 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 1:05:43 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    Well, Bob, you got your wish! I happen to be anchored this evening within range of a WiFi spot run by the NPS here in Glacier Bay.

    JJ - don't pay any attention to Old Bob. He has admitted to no cross country experience in motorgliders, so his opinion is as well informed as asking a 12 year old virgin for advice in bed with Marilyn Monroe. Doesn't stop him from loudly and
    repeatedly offering such advice though. There is a big difference between hang gliders and ultralights (and yes, I flew hang gliders for many years in the early days of them) - it is not at all comparable to Pawnee launched gliders vs self launched. The
    hang gliders I flew might more correctly be described as "pure", in that we ran off of a mountain with them. The "pure" gliders that Bob keeps banging on about require a Pawnee to launch them, and a Suburban to retrieve them from a field somewhere. With
    that kind of support infrastructure required to operate them, "pure" doesn't fit.

    After flying a couple of seasons with your 31, you will have to come back here and tell us how your flying has changed. I'll wager it will be in none of the "conclusions" that Bob is writing in his new book.
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:35:34 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 6:30:06 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
    I use rubber gloves when fueling my Stemme and my gyro. No gas smell on
    my hands, just from my shirt and pants from all the spillage...

    Dan
    5J
    On 7/19/22 15:59, 2G wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 2:04:24 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.
    Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
    planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
    cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
    comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    The greatest hypocrisy of all comes from someone who calls himself a "purist" as he cranks up his 230hp Pawnee. At sea level it only takes about a half gallon of gas per launch in my 31Mi - how much do you burn in that Pawnee? And, while you're
    at it, how is the search for a new airstrip going? I can take my 31Mi to ANY public use airport and fly (within reason - Seatac would not want me there, and I wouldn't want to be there).
    ,
    John, you made an excellent choice in buying the 31Mi, and will enjoy the hell out of it. My only complaint is that I can't seem to help but to get some oil on my hands when refilling the oil reservoir. But that is a tiny price to pay for
    independence. Refueling is a dream if you got the automatic refueling pump option.

    If you haven't purchased your ground support equipment yet contact me privately for some advice.

    Tom
    I really like to get things rolling here again, it has been so boring with the sailplanes on Mars post. What we need is Fitch back, I will forgive him on the 60 day go straight to jail sentence, kind of like a directed verdict from the bench! Come
    on guys, "Let's Get Ready To Rumble"! Old Bob, THE PURIST!
    Fitch, I was beginning to get worried about you, your absence, had me on pins and needles! Please refrain from dumping your black water into the bay, I certainly know how nasty you motorglider guys are and please don't kill the whales. Now there you go
    trying to poison JJ about us dedicated PURIST, he seems to have a better understanding of the purist aspect than most.
    Anyway, it is good to see you making a post and I am relieved that you are safe and sound. I guess you will be heading back to that liberal infested area of Washington soon, safe travels and try not to trick your logger on the way home. Your favorite
    adversary, Old Bob, The Purist.

    LOL! Notice that Old Bob The Hypocrite doesn't refute a single one of Jon's points; he either nitpicks (his Pawnee is 235hp instead 230) or just resorts to personal attacks. Hey Bobby, have you EVER landed your 24 out? If so, how FAR from the airport was
    it? I don't expect that you will answer these questions, however.

    Tom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 22 10:46:21 2022
    On 7/22/2022 8:08 AM, 2G wrote:

    Anyway, it is good to see you making a post and I am relieved that you are safe and sound. I guess you will be heading back to that liberal infested area of Washington soon, safe travels and try not to trick your logger on the way home. Your favorite
    adversary, Old Bob, The Purist.
    LOL! Notice that Old Bob The Hypocrite doesn't refute a single one of Jon's points; he either nitpicks (his Pawnee is 235hp instead 230) or just resorts to personal attacks. Hey Bobby, have you EVER landed your 24 out? If so, how FAR from the airport
    was it? I don't expect that you will answer these questions, however.

    Bob is a puzzle, for sure. He owns a very capable towplane, he knows several towpilots
    that can fly it, so he could be reliably retrieved from any airport in the state. And yet,
    he chooses to fly so cautiously, he always lands back at the departure airport. Usually,
    pilots with a good retrieve system will "stretch their wings" ocasionally: flying farther
    or longer, heading into an area where the soaring may not as reliable, or staying with the
    good soaring even as the path home begins to stablize. But that's not Bob. Surely, even a
    purist remains pure if they land somewhere beside the start?

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Fri Jul 22 12:06:14 2022
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 1:46:28 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 8:08 AM, 2G wrote:

    Anyway, it is good to see you making a post and I am relieved that you are safe and sound. I guess you will be heading back to that liberal infested area of Washington soon, safe travels and try not to trick your logger on the way home. Your
    favorite adversary, Old Bob, The Purist.
    LOL! Notice that Old Bob The Hypocrite doesn't refute a single one of Jon's points; he either nitpicks (his Pawnee is 235hp instead 230) or just resorts to personal attacks. Hey Bobby, have you EVER landed your 24 out? If so, how FAR from the airport
    was it? I don't expect that you will answer these questions, however.
    Bob is a puzzle, for sure. He owns a very capable towplane, he knows several towpilots
    that can fly it, so he could be reliably retrieved from any airport in the state. And yet,
    he chooses to fly so cautiously, he always lands back at the departure airport. Usually,
    pilots with a good retrieve system will "stretch their wings" ocasionally: flying farther
    or longer, heading into an area where the soaring may not as reliable, or staying with the
    good soaring even as the path home begins to stablize. But that's not Bob. Surely, even a
    purist remains pure if they land somewhere beside the start?
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, I wish that I knew more tow pilots that could get me in the air, this old buzzard does way too much towing and at my age I would rather be flying my glider, but I end up towing Eileen most of the time. contrary to your beliefs I have landed out
    many times, once in a prison baseball yard, many more times with the greatest landout pilot of all time, E9, we both landed out in places within the Everglades that would really amaze you. Cautiously is not in my vocabulary, I do pretty dang good in this
    swamp laden alligator and snake infested peninsular. Once I landed on a road to a place called Shark River Valley, even Alfonso gave me a A+ on that one.
    Now I had my purist investigator at Ely and upon his return I asked him if he had met you and he told me that you unlike Richard Noggin was a very nice gentleman but you only flew once and spent the rest of the event working on your motorglider, what say
    you? I don't have that problem, I do not have that gasoline smelling problem with my glider and hopefully my new one will not have that either. Eric, please send me another tow pilot, Eileen can fly the King Air350, but not the Pawnee.
    I will extend the invitation to you that I have extended to many others, come on down to Vero Beach, you can even stay at the ranch, FD25, enjoy our hospitality, learn something about flying gliders and I will even have you watch Fox News with me at 9pm
    so that you can become Fair, Balance and Unafraid! Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jul 22 13:13:14 2022
    On 7/22/2022 12:06 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 1:46:28 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 8:08 AM, 2G wrote:

    Eric, I wish that I knew more tow pilots that could get me in the air, this old buzzard does way too much towing and at my age I would rather be flying my glider, but I end up towing Eileen most of the time. contrary to your beliefs I have landed out
    many times, once in a prison baseball yard, many more times with the greatest landout pilot of all time, E9, we both landed out in places within the Everglades that would really amaze you. Cautiously is not in my vocabulary, I do pretty dang good in this
    swamp laden alligator and snake infested peninsular. Once I landed on a road to a place called Shark River Valley, even Alfonso gave me a A+ on that one.
    Now I had my purist investigator at Ely and upon his return I asked him if he had met you and he told me that you unlike Richard Noggin was a very nice gentleman but you only flew once and spent the rest of the event working on your motorglider, what
    say you? I don't have that problem, I do not have that gasoline smelling problem with my glider and hopefully my new one will not have that either. Eric, please send me another tow pilot, Eileen can fly the King Air350, but not the Pawnee.
    I will extend the invitation to you that I have extended to many others, come on down to Vero Beach, you can even stay at the ranch, FD25, enjoy our hospitality, learn something about flying gliders and I will even have you watch Fox News with me at
    9pm so that you can become Fair, Balance and Unafraid! Old Bob, The Purist

    All those landouts are many years in the past, and that's part of the puzzle, because you
    used have "purist" adventures. For years now (at least 5), though, you've always landed
    back at Hibiscus, which seems contrary to your claim to be a "purist". You tell us how the
    purist must accept the uncertainty of soaring flight, and that's what sets him apart from
    the motorglider pilots, and makes him a better pilot and a better person. And yet, it's
    obvious there is no uncertainty in the outcome of your "pure" flying, as you get home
    every time (74+ flights in the last 5 years), just like a motorglider pilot.

    I flew two flights at Ely, but had to stop flying when my wheel brake became too weak to
    be safe. I first noticed a minor reduction in braking power during a test flight before
    going to Parowan. It slowly worsened at Parowan and Ely, despite bleeding it at both
    places, so I took it to Schaefer Aviation at Williams. Danny found fine grit in the
    caliper and the master cylinder, plus a damaged O-ring in each unit. A rebuild and new
    fluid restored it. If it had been a motor problem, I could've taken tows, but there is no
    substitute for a wheel brake.

    I'd love to fly with you in Florida, but it's a daunting 3700 miles from Richland to you,
    and at $5/gallon for the motorhome, about $2100 just for gas - one way. We have done it
    before, so maybe next year...

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Fri Jul 22 13:49:14 2022
    On 7/22/2022 1:13 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:

    I'd love to fly with you in Florida, but it's a daunting 3700 miles from Richland to you,
    and at $5/gallon for the motorhome, about $2100 just for gas - one way. We have done it
    before, so maybe next year...

    Miscalculated: it's 3000 miles/$1670, one way.

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Fri Jul 22 14:39:21 2022
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 4:13:24 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 12:06 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 1:46:28 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 8:08 AM, 2G wrote:

    Eric, I wish that I knew more tow pilots that could get me in the air, this old buzzard does way too much towing and at my age I would rather be flying my glider, but I end up towing Eileen most of the time. contrary to your beliefs I have landed out
    many times, once in a prison baseball yard, many more times with the greatest landout pilot of all time, E9, we both landed out in places within the Everglades that would really amaze you. Cautiously is not in my vocabulary, I do pretty dang good in this
    swamp laden alligator and snake infested peninsular. Once I landed on a road to a place called Shark River Valley, even Alfonso gave me a A+ on that one.
    Now I had my purist investigator at Ely and upon his return I asked him if he had met you and he told me that you unlike Richard Noggin was a very nice gentleman but you only flew once and spent the rest of the event working on your motorglider, what
    say you? I don't have that problem, I do not have that gasoline smelling problem with my glider and hopefully my new one will not have that either. Eric, please send me another tow pilot, Eileen can fly the King Air350, but not the Pawnee.
    I will extend the invitation to you that I have extended to many others, come on down to Vero Beach, you can even stay at the ranch, FD25, enjoy our hospitality, learn something about flying gliders and I will even have you watch Fox News with me at
    9pm so that you can become Fair, Balance and Unafraid! Old Bob, The Purist
    All those landouts are many years in the past, and that's part of the puzzle, because you
    used have "purist" adventures. For years now (at least 5), though, you've always landed
    back at Hibiscus, which seems contrary to your claim to be a "purist". You tell us how the
    purist must accept the uncertainty of soaring flight, and that's what sets him apart from
    the motorglider pilots, and makes him a better pilot and a better person. And yet, it's
    obvious there is no uncertainty in the outcome of your "pure" flying, as you get home
    every time (74+ flights in the last 5 years), just like a motorglider pilot.

    I flew two flights at Ely, but had to stop flying when my wheel brake became too weak to
    be safe. I first noticed a minor reduction in braking power during a test flight before
    going to Parowan. It slowly worsened at Parowan and Ely, despite bleeding it at both
    places, so I took it to Schaefer Aviation at Williams. Danny found fine grit in the
    caliper and the master cylinder, plus a damaged O-ring in each unit. A rebuild and new
    fluid restored it. If it had been a motor problem, I could've taken tows, but there is no
    substitute for a wheel brake.

    I'd love to fly with you in Florida, but it's a daunting 3700 miles from Richland to you,
    and at $5/gallon for the motorhome, about $2100 just for gas - one way. We have done it
    before, so maybe next year...
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why worry about
    the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
    Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old Bob, The
    Purist

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jul 22 16:54:39 2022
    On 7/22/2022 2:39 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why worry
    about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
    Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old Bob, The
    Purist

    I looked at all 74 flights you've posted on the OLC since 2018. All started and ended at
    Hibiscus. If I made an error, please, tell us which flights did not end at Hibiscus.

    Would you fly your towplane without wheel brakes? I also taxi, so I need the brake for
    that, just as you do. I also use it to ensure I turn off the runway at the correct
    taxiway; often, there are other gliders on that taxiway that have just come off the
    runway, and haven't had time to move their glider (almost always a "purist"; motorgliders
    just fire up and taxi to their tiedown), so I need the brake to avoid hitting them. I
    could, of course, do like a purist, and stop on the runway, blocking it for several
    minutes until it's finally pushed off the runway :^) I hope I'm not telling you anything
    you don't know!

    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Fri Jul 22 17:55:17 2022
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 2:39 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why worry
    about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
    Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old Bob, The
    Purist
    I looked at all 74 flights you've posted on the OLC since 2018. All started and ended at
    Hibiscus. If I made an error, please, tell us which flights did not end at Hibiscus.

    Would you fly your towplane without wheel brakes? I also taxi, so I need the brake for
    that, just as you do. I also use it to ensure I turn off the runway at the correct
    taxiway; often, there are other gliders on that taxiway that have just come off the
    runway, and haven't had time to move their glider (almost always a "purist"; motorgliders
    just fire up and taxi to their tiedown), so I need the brake to avoid hitting them. I
    could, of course, do like a purist, and stop on the runway, blocking it for several
    minutes until it's finally pushed off the runway :^) I hope I'm not telling you anything
    you don't know!

    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not returning to
    the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us purist,
    but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist

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  • From Dan Marotta@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Sat Jul 23 08:12:02 2022
    I've done that three times: Twice with 1,000' rope ground launches and
    once with a self-launcher. Each involved boxing up the glider at the
    end of the day and all were great fun (except when my partner crashed
    following one ground launch).

    I thermaled over the meteor crater in Arizona and landed at Winslow,
    though I did not "stand on the corner". I did that on a different
    adventure with Tom Bjork (RIP). That was not a soaring story but still
    great fun...

    Dan
    5J

    On 7/22/22 17:54, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at
    one airport, and landing at a different one.

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  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jul 23 11:15:45 2022
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 5:55:19 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 2:39 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why worry
    about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
    Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old Bob,
    The Purist
    I looked at all 74 flights you've posted on the OLC since 2018. All started and ended at
    Hibiscus. If I made an error, please, tell us which flights did not end at Hibiscus.

    Would you fly your towplane without wheel brakes? I also taxi, so I need the brake for
    that, just as you do. I also use it to ensure I turn off the runway at the correct
    taxiway; often, there are other gliders on that taxiway that have just come off the
    runway, and haven't had time to move their glider (almost always a "purist"; motorgliders
    just fire up and taxi to their tiedown), so I need the brake to avoid hitting them. I
    could, of course, do like a purist, and stop on the runway, blocking it for several
    minutes until it's finally pushed off the runway :^) I hope I'm not telling you anything
    you don't know!

    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not returning to
    the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us
    purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist

    No, Bobby, it is you that has altered the meaning:

    History and Etymology for safari
    Swahili, journey, from Arabic safarī of a journey

    Hard to have a journey when you don't move. And your complaints about not being able to find a tow pilot was the number one reason for most of us in getting a motorglider. We had the towplane, but finding reliable tow pilots was a challenge.

    Tom

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to Dan Marotta on Sat Jul 23 20:41:06 2022
    On 7/23/2022 7:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
    I've done that three times:  Twice with 1,000' rope ground launches and once with a
    self-launcher.  Each involved boxing up the glider at the end of the day and all were
    great fun (except when my partner crashed following one ground launch).

    I thermaled over the meteor crater in Arizona and landed at Winslow, though I did not
    "stand on the corner".  I did that on a different adventure with Tom Bjork (RIP).  That
    was not a soaring story but still great fun...

    Dan
    5J

    Now, that's what a soaring safari really is! Going to soaring operation, staying there for
    while, then leaving; well, that's not even a soaring camp! Can be a lot of fun, especially
    with some beer and barbecue, but it's no more a safari than going to the zoo to see the
    lions is a "safari".

    I offer these guidelines for "soaring safaris": The key points are traveling from place to
    place, bringing your "launch system" with you, and using takeoff and landing places that
    aren't soaring operation.

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jul 23 21:13:12 2022
    On 7/22/2022 5:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:


    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not returning to
    the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us
    purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist

    It seems like every time you pontificate on motorgliders, you demonstrate your unfamiliarity with them. My ASH26E keeps moving, even at idle, so a brake is required to
    taxi, and to hold it during the ignition check. If there is wind, there is always the
    chance the wing will flip in the other direction while taxiing, requiring rapid and firm
    braking to keep the newly "down" wing from hitting something (soft dirt, a taxiway sign),
    damaging the wing or turning the glider off the taxiway.

    Burgers on the grill is fine for a weekend, but that would become really tiresome for a 12
    day camp like the ASA Parowan motorglider event. After a few days, people would be leaving
    the airport to go to restaurants for a change, or cook dinner in their motorhome, and the
    camaraderie would suffer. Having one of the local restaurants bring food to a hangar at
    the airport (with chairs and tables left set up for the duration), at the same time every
    evening does wonders for keeping people around. And the wives love it - some one else is
    doing the cooking! A few cases of two buck Chuck don't hurt, either.

    I seem to have your tacit agreement that all your OLC postings (74 over 5 years) have the
    landing at the departure airport, with the exception of two flights where you forgot to
    turn the Nano on before takeoff. You used to have adventures like a purist, and land out
    sometimes (or at least "land away"), and you can do it again. Surely, there are club
    members that would be pleased to retrieve you if a tow pilot isn't available. Leave the
    trailer hooked to the car and keys under the seat, and go for it the next time you fly!

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Sun Jul 24 04:06:37 2022
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:13:17 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 5:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:


    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not returning
    to the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us
    purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist
    It seems like every time you pontificate on motorgliders, you demonstrate your
    unfamiliarity with them. My ASH26E keeps moving, even at idle, so a brake is required to
    taxi, and to hold it during the ignition check. If there is wind, there is always the
    chance the wing will flip in the other direction while taxiing, requiring rapid and firm
    braking to keep the newly "down" wing from hitting something (soft dirt, a taxiway sign),
    damaging the wing or turning the glider off the taxiway.

    Burgers on the grill is fine for a weekend, but that would become really tiresome for a 12
    day camp like the ASA Parowan motorglider event. After a few days, people would be leaving
    the airport to go to restaurants for a change, or cook dinner in their motorhome, and the
    camaraderie would suffer. Having one of the local restaurants bring food to a hangar at
    the airport (with chairs and tables left set up for the duration), at the same time every
    evening does wonders for keeping people around. And the wives love it - some one else is
    doing the cooking! A few cases of two buck Chuck don't hurt, either.

    I seem to have your tacit agreement that all your OLC postings (74 over 5 years) have the
    landing at the departure airport, with the exception of two flights where you forgot to
    turn the Nano on before takeoff. You used to have adventures like a purist, and land out
    sometimes (or at least "land away"), and you can do it again. Surely, there are club
    members that would be pleased to retrieve you if a tow pilot isn't available. Leave the
    trailer hooked to the car and keys under the seat, and go for it the next time you fly!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    Eric, being a Purist I never worry about the brakes, I learned long ago to never really depend on them, you should also take that approach. Now about your investigative skills, they are lacking, keep trying you might find the elusive landing that you are
    looking for.
    Now about the PURIST dinners at TCSC, we have one almost every weekend and every day during our wonderful Safari. We do the cooking ourselves and that even makes the camaraderie even more interesting among all of us PURIST and even a few motorglider
    guest. We usually make sure that the motorglider folks do all the cleanup, you must watch those folks closely as they seem to be a bit on the lazy side. Even today we are having a cookout I am sure there will be a surprise on the grill other than burgers
    and hot dogs, some fine southern purist is sure to have some fresh gator tail or wild pig pork chops, yes, they are tough but a bit tasty.
    I am sure that someday my skills and luck will catch up with me and I once again will call for Eileen to grab the trailer and rescue me from some alligator and python infested hell hole.
    Next year before you go to Ely make sure that your motorglider is not broken, all that way for one day of flying is not worth it, plan for a good week of activities.
    Well the sun is up here on the East Coast and I must get a few minutes of Fox News in before I depart for the glider club and tow all of those wonderful purist. We must have several young boys and girls to get in the air today, future purist! Old Bob,
    The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jul 24 06:24:43 2022
    On 7/24/2022 4:06 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:13:17 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 5:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:


    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not returning
    to the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us
    purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist
    It seems like every time you pontificate on motorgliders, you demonstrate your
    unfamiliarity with them. My ASH26E keeps moving, even at idle, so a brake is required to
    taxi, and to hold it during the ignition check. If there is wind, there is always the
    chance the wing will flip in the other direction while taxiing, requiring rapid and firm
    braking to keep the newly "down" wing from hitting something (soft dirt, a taxiway sign),
    damaging the wing or turning the glider off the taxiway.

    Burgers on the grill is fine for a weekend, but that would become really tiresome for a 12
    day camp like the ASA Parowan motorglider event. After a few days, people would be leaving
    the airport to go to restaurants for a change, or cook dinner in their motorhome, and the
    camaraderie would suffer. Having one of the local restaurants bring food to a hangar at
    the airport (with chairs and tables left set up for the duration), at the same time every
    evening does wonders for keeping people around. And the wives love it - some one else is
    doing the cooking! A few cases of two buck Chuck don't hurt, either.

    I seem to have your tacit agreement that all your OLC postings (74 over 5 years) have the
    landing at the departure airport, with the exception of two flights where you forgot to
    turn the Nano on before takeoff. You used to have adventures like a purist, and land out
    sometimes (or at least "land away"), and you can do it again. Surely, there are club
    members that would be pleased to retrieve you if a tow pilot isn't available. Leave the
    trailer hooked to the car and keys under the seat, and go for it the next time you fly!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    Eric, being a Purist I never worry about the brakes, I learned long ago to never really depend on them, you should also take that approach. Now about your investigative skills, they are lacking,
    Now about the PURIST dinners at TCSC, we have one almost every weekend and every day during our wonderful Safari. We do the cooking ourselves and that even makes the camaraderie even more interesting among all of us PURIST and even a few motorglider
    guest. We usually make sure that the motorglider folks do all the cleanup, you must watch those folks closely as they seem to be a bit on the lazy side. Even today we are having a cookout I am sure there will be a surprise on the grill other than burgers
    and hot dogs, some fine southern purist is sure to have some fresh gator tail or wild pig pork chops, yes, they are tough but a bit tasty.
    I am sure that someday my skills and luck will catch up with me and I once again will call for Eileen to grab the trailer and rescue me from some alligator and python infested hell hole.
    Next year before you go to Ely make sure that your motorglider is not broken, all that way for one day of flying is not worth it, plan for a good week of activities.
    Well the sun is up here on the East Coast and I must get a few minutes of Fox News in before I depart for the glider club and tow all of those wonderful purist. We must have several young boys and girls to get in the air today, future purist! Old Bob,
    The Purist

    "keep trying you might find the elusive landing that you are looking for." And there it
    is: the tacit agreement there is no posting showing a landing elsewhere than Hibiscus :^)

    Just sayin'...my crew is much more likely to suggest we go soaring for a couple weeks at a
    place where dinner is brought to us. The barbecue method can work at a place with a club
    house that has good kitchen facilities, but even those can be strained when you have 40+
    people show up for an event. Parowan has no facilities, Ely has some, Ephrata is great.

    The ASH26E has been a tremendously reliable glider for me. During the 27 years (4200
    hours) I've owned it, I've only missed flying about 10-15 days because of mechanical
    problems. Most of those days lost were due to glider problems (like the brake), not motor
    problems. By comparison, I lost many more flying days when I was flying towed gliders due
    to towplane or towpilot problems.

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Marotta@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Sun Jul 24 09:45:15 2022
    My partner in the Cessna 180, a tow pilot and glider pilot, asked if we
    could install a release and go on safari. The plan was to switch off
    each day and cover the Rockies. The insurance company squashed that
    idea with a resounding "NO!"

    Pretty chintzy of them, if you ask me...

    Dan
    5J

    On 7/23/22 21:41, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/23/2022 7:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
    I've done that three times:  Twice with 1,000' rope ground launches
    and once with a self-launcher.  Each involved boxing up the glider at
    the end of the day and all were great fun (except when my partner
    crashed following one ground launch).

    I thermaled over the meteor crater in Arizona and landed at Winslow,
    though I did not "stand on the corner".  I did that on a different
    adventure with Tom Bjork (RIP).  That was not a soaring story but
    still great fun...

    Dan
    5J

    Now, that's what a soaring safari really is! Going to soaring operation, staying there for while, then leaving; well, that's not even a soaring
    camp! Can be a lot of fun, especially with some beer and barbecue, but
    it's no more a safari than going to the zoo to see the lions is a "safari".

    I offer these guidelines for "soaring safaris": The key points are
    traveling from place to place, bringing your "launch system" with you,
    and using takeoff and landing places that aren't soaring operation.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Sun Jul 24 15:26:10 2022
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 9:24:51 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 4:06 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:13:17 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 5:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:


    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not
    returning to the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us
    purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist
    It seems like every time you pontificate on motorgliders, you demonstrate your
    unfamiliarity with them. My ASH26E keeps moving, even at idle, so a brake is required to
    taxi, and to hold it during the ignition check. If there is wind, there is always the
    chance the wing will flip in the other direction while taxiing, requiring rapid and firm
    braking to keep the newly "down" wing from hitting something (soft dirt, a taxiway sign),
    damaging the wing or turning the glider off the taxiway.

    Burgers on the grill is fine for a weekend, but that would become really tiresome for a 12
    day camp like the ASA Parowan motorglider event. After a few days, people would be leaving
    the airport to go to restaurants for a change, or cook dinner in their motorhome, and the
    camaraderie would suffer. Having one of the local restaurants bring food to a hangar at
    the airport (with chairs and tables left set up for the duration), at the same time every
    evening does wonders for keeping people around. And the wives love it - some one else is
    doing the cooking! A few cases of two buck Chuck don't hurt, either.

    I seem to have your tacit agreement that all your OLC postings (74 over 5 years) have the
    landing at the departure airport, with the exception of two flights where you forgot to
    turn the Nano on before takeoff. You used to have adventures like a purist, and land out
    sometimes (or at least "land away"), and you can do it again. Surely, there are club
    members that would be pleased to retrieve you if a tow pilot isn't available. Leave the
    trailer hooked to the car and keys under the seat, and go for it the next time you fly!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    Eric, being a Purist I never worry about the brakes, I learned long ago to never really depend on them, you should also take that approach. Now about your investigative skills, they are lacking,
    Now about the PURIST dinners at TCSC, we have one almost every weekend and every day during our wonderful Safari. We do the cooking ourselves and that even makes the camaraderie even more interesting among all of us PURIST and even a few motorglider
    guest. We usually make sure that the motorglider folks do all the cleanup, you must watch those folks closely as they seem to be a bit on the lazy side. Even today we are having a cookout I am sure there will be a surprise on the grill other than burgers
    and hot dogs, some fine southern purist is sure to have some fresh gator tail or wild pig pork chops, yes, they are tough but a bit tasty.
    I am sure that someday my skills and luck will catch up with me and I once again will call for Eileen to grab the trailer and rescue me from some alligator and python infested hell hole.
    Next year before you go to Ely make sure that your motorglider is not broken, all that way for one day of flying is not worth it, plan for a good week of activities.
    Well the sun is up here on the East Coast and I must get a few minutes of Fox News in before I depart for the glider club and tow all of those wonderful purist. We must have several young boys and girls to get in the air today, future purist! Old Bob,
    The Purist

    "keep trying you might find the elusive landing that you are looking for." And there it
    is: the tacit agreement there is no posting showing a landing elsewhere than Hibiscus :^)

    Just sayin'...my crew is much more likely to suggest we go soaring for a couple weeks at a
    place where dinner is brought to us. The barbecue method can work at a place with a club
    house that has good kitchen facilities, but even those can be strained when you have 40+
    people show up for an event. Parowan has no facilities, Ely has some, Ephrata is great.

    The ASH26E has been a tremendously reliable glider for me. During the 27 years (4200
    hours) I've owned it, I've only missed flying about 10-15 days because of mechanical
    problems. Most of those days lost were due to glider problems (like the brake), not motor
    problems. By comparison, I lost many more flying days when I was flying towed gliders due
    to towplane or towpilot problems.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you investigative skills are lacking, what do I have to do take you to the promise land? Keep looking and you will find it, even a blind man should see that one. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jfitch@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jul 24 17:03:12 2022
    Old Bob, don't worry too much about me. Back on the internet, this time due to some temporary cell coverage in Haines, AK. Not too much soaring here - it has rained for 2 weeks straight, and in any case ice fields are poor producers of thermals. I haven'
    t killed any whales yet, they are hard to chase down in this 7 knot boat.

    A primary component of any definition of "safari" is that it is an expedition, meaning going somewhere, not a cookout in the back yard. To do a soaring safari with Pawnee launched gliders requires that a Pawnee tag along the whole distance. Has been done
    many times of course, but is expensive and the guy driving the Pawnee has no fun. In contrast you can do a solo safari in a motorglider, we met such a person in Ely one year, had landed his trailer in New Orleans from Germany, assembled it there, and was
    flying his DG-800 all around the western states, about 2 months in.

    Eric - I don't blame Old Bob for trying to get back to the airport in that swamp of a state. But the idea of land outs as a badge of manliness needs to be discouraged as it costs me money. Something like 40% of the sailplane landing accident claims are
    from off-field landings. Since these comprise only perhaps <1% of the total landings, that makes an insurance claim (paid for by premiums from you and me) 40x more likely in an off-field landing than an on-field.

    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 4:55:19 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 2:39 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why worry
    about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
    Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old Bob,
    The Purist
    I looked at all 74 flights you've posted on the OLC since 2018. All started and ended at
    Hibiscus. If I made an error, please, tell us which flights did not end at Hibiscus.

    Would you fly your towplane without wheel brakes? I also taxi, so I need the brake for
    that, just as you do. I also use it to ensure I turn off the runway at the correct
    taxiway; often, there are other gliders on that taxiway that have just come off the
    runway, and haven't had time to move their glider (almost always a "purist"; motorgliders
    just fire up and taxi to their tiedown), so I need the brake to avoid hitting them. I
    could, of course, do like a purist, and stop on the runway, blocking it for several
    minutes until it's finally pushed off the runway :^) I hope I'm not telling you anything
    you don't know!

    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not returning to
    the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us
    purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to jfitch on Sun Jul 24 17:24:18 2022
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    Old Bob, don't worry too much about me. Back on the internet, this time due to some temporary cell coverage in Haines, AK. Not too much soaring here - it has rained for 2 weeks straight, and in any case ice fields are poor producers of thermals. I
    haven't killed any whales yet, they are hard to chase down in this 7 knot boat.

    A primary component of any definition of "safari" is that it is an expedition, meaning going somewhere, not a cookout in the back yard. To do a soaring safari with Pawnee launched gliders requires that a Pawnee tag along the whole distance. Has been
    done many times of course, but is expensive and the guy driving the Pawnee has no fun. In contrast you can do a solo safari in a motorglider, we met such a person in Ely one year, had landed his trailer in New Orleans from Germany, assembled it there,
    and was flying his DG-800 all around the western states, about 2 months in.

    Eric - I don't blame Old Bob for trying to get back to the airport in that swamp of a state. But the idea of land outs as a badge of manliness needs to be discouraged as it costs me money. Something like 40% of the sailplane landing accident claims are
    from off-field landings. Since these comprise only perhaps <1% of the total landings, that makes an insurance claim (paid for by premiums from you and me) 40x more likely in an off-field landing than an on-field.
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 4:55:19 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 2:39 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why
    worry about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
    Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old Bob,
    The Purist
    I looked at all 74 flights you've posted on the OLC since 2018. All started and ended at
    Hibiscus. If I made an error, please, tell us which flights did not end at Hibiscus.

    Would you fly your towplane without wheel brakes? I also taxi, so I need the brake for
    that, just as you do. I also use it to ensure I turn off the runway at the correct
    taxiway; often, there are other gliders on that taxiway that have just come off the
    runway, and haven't had time to move their glider (almost always a "purist"; motorgliders
    just fire up and taxi to their tiedown), so I need the brake to avoid hitting them. I
    could, of course, do like a purist, and stop on the runway, blocking it for several
    minutes until it's finally pushed off the runway :^) I hope I'm not telling you anything
    you don't know!

    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not returning
    to the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us
    purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist

    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Yes, landing back at the start point is not a bad idea, isn't that what you big dogs are supposed to do! Anyway I did do my share of developing young Purist today and then took a hop in my neighbors BT13, now that baby sucks some fuel, 17 tows and then a
    hop in history was not a bad day.
    Sorry about the ice up there in AK, it was certainly hot here on the Florida coast today, we are setting heat records almost everyday with very little rain for this time of the year. Eric is all consumed with this landout ordeal, he may just figure it
    out soon. Take care of yourself, don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jul 24 18:39:34 2022
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 5:24:19 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    Old Bob, don't worry too much about me. Back on the internet, this time due to some temporary cell coverage in Haines, AK. Not too much soaring here - it has rained for 2 weeks straight, and in any case ice fields are poor producers of thermals. I
    haven't killed any whales yet, they are hard to chase down in this 7 knot boat.

    A primary component of any definition of "safari" is that it is an expedition, meaning going somewhere, not a cookout in the back yard. To do a soaring safari with Pawnee launched gliders requires that a Pawnee tag along the whole distance. Has been
    done many times of course, but is expensive and the guy driving the Pawnee has no fun. In contrast you can do a solo safari in a motorglider, we met such a person in Ely one year, had landed his trailer in New Orleans from Germany, assembled it there,
    and was flying his DG-800 all around the western states, about 2 months in.

    Eric - I don't blame Old Bob for trying to get back to the airport in that swamp of a state. But the idea of land outs as a badge of manliness needs to be discouraged as it costs me money. Something like 40% of the sailplane landing accident claims
    are from off-field landings. Since these comprise only perhaps <1% of the total landings, that makes an insurance claim (paid for by premiums from you and me) 40x more likely in an off-field landing than an on-field.
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 4:55:19 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 2:39 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why
    worry about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
    Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old Bob,
    The Purist
    I looked at all 74 flights you've posted on the OLC since 2018. All started and ended at
    Hibiscus. If I made an error, please, tell us which flights did not end at Hibiscus.

    Would you fly your towplane without wheel brakes? I also taxi, so I need the brake for
    that, just as you do. I also use it to ensure I turn off the runway at the correct
    taxiway; often, there are other gliders on that taxiway that have just come off the
    runway, and haven't had time to move their glider (almost always a "purist"; motorgliders
    just fire up and taxi to their tiedown), so I need the brake to avoid hitting them. I
    could, of course, do like a purist, and stop on the runway, blocking it for several
    minutes until it's finally pushed off the runway :^) I hope I'm not telling you anything
    you don't know!

    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not
    returning to the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us
    purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Yes, landing back at the start point is not a bad idea, isn't that what you big dogs are supposed to do! Anyway I did do my share of developing young Purist today and then took a hop in my neighbors BT13, now that baby sucks some fuel, 17 tows and then
    a hop in history was not a bad day.
    Sorry about the ice up there in AK, it was certainly hot here on the Florida coast today, we are setting heat records almost everyday with very little rain for this time of the year. Eric is all consumed with this landout ordeal, he may just figure it
    out soon. Take care of yourself, don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste. Old Bob, The Purister

    Hey Bobby The Hypocrite,

    You can't even admit that you were DEAD WRONG on the definition of "safari", so you continue your bloviating about being a "purist." The truth is you rarely creep out of gliding range of New Hibriscus. I have examined ALL of your OLC posted and have
    concluded this: your purported experience as a cross country glider pilot is a FRAUD! Your average flight distance is just 168 km - that hardly gets you out of glide distance of your home airport. The MAXIMUM flight distance you have had in 5 years is
    barely over 400km - that would be considered a DISASTER here at Ely. Add to that that your average speed is a paltry 36kt! This is LESS THAN stall speed!!

    Bobby, you are a JOKE masquerading as a glider pilot. To be criticizing those of us that make REAL cross country glider flights is a DISGRACE! Keith Essex recently did a 1,535km flight on THERMALS ALONE, a REMARKABLE feat that you met with SILENCE. Yet,
    you would DISMISS that flight because he flew a MOTORGLIDER!

    Bobby, I recommend that you GET A LIFE and smell the roses. You are a pathetic glider pilot who only wants to denigrate others of superior airmanship skills.

    Tom

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 24 23:21:55 2022
    Le vendredi 22 juillet 2022 à 22:13:24 UTC+2, Eric Greenwell a écrit :
    On 7/22/2022 12:06 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    Hello my friends,
    In order to have a more complete view of what can be a real safari with and without tow and other service planes, I suggest you read the 1986 Soaring Magazine article about the Andean Safari, i.e. crossing Atacama desert in Chile, in which they did not
    succeed to overfly the volcanoes even though making a stop in Calama. https://topfly-aero.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/ANDEAN-ODYSSEY-Wally-Scott-1986.pdf
    And then, read the article on the same website for a much successful safari in 2019 using a 25-year old self-launching motorglider also based in Calama, who could fly almost every day above the volcanoes (stones up to 20000 ft), without any help from
    outside, NEVER using the engine for coming back home, discovering new meteorological phenomena.
    BTW, I am also a sailor, and you may remember that the use of engine for entering or leaving a port is mandatory, at least here.
    All the best to all,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 25 04:28:15 2022
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 5:24:19 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    Old Bob, don't worry too much about me. Back on the internet, this time due to some temporary cell coverage in Haines, AK. Not too much soaring here - it has rained for 2 weeks straight, and in any case ice fields are poor producers of thermals. I
    haven't killed any whales yet, they are hard to chase down in this 7 knot boat.

    A primary component of any definition of "safari" is that it is an expedition, meaning going somewhere, not a cookout in the back yard. To do a soaring safari with Pawnee launched gliders requires that a Pawnee tag along the whole distance. Has
    been done many times of course, but is expensive and the guy driving the Pawnee has no fun. In contrast you can do a solo safari in a motorglider, we met such a person in Ely one year, had landed his trailer in New Orleans from Germany, assembled it
    there, and was flying his DG-800 all around the western states, about 2 months in.

    Eric - I don't blame Old Bob for trying to get back to the airport in that swamp of a state. But the idea of land outs as a badge of manliness needs to be discouraged as it costs me money. Something like 40% of the sailplane landing accident claims
    are from off-field landings. Since these comprise only perhaps <1% of the total landings, that makes an insurance claim (paid for by premiums from you and me) 40x more likely in an off-field landing than an on-field.
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 4:55:19 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 2:39 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why
    worry about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
    Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old
    Bob, The Purist
    I looked at all 74 flights you've posted on the OLC since 2018. All started and ended at
    Hibiscus. If I made an error, please, tell us which flights did not end at Hibiscus.

    Would you fly your towplane without wheel brakes? I also taxi, so I need the brake for
    that, just as you do. I also use it to ensure I turn off the runway at the correct
    taxiway; often, there are other gliders on that taxiway that have just come off the
    runway, and haven't had time to move their glider (almost always a "purist"; motorgliders
    just fire up and taxi to their tiedown), so I need the brake to avoid hitting them. I
    could, of course, do like a purist, and stop on the runway, blocking it for several
    minutes until it's finally pushed off the runway :^) I hope I'm not telling you anything
    you don't know!

    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not
    returning to the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than
    us purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Yes, landing back at the start point is not a bad idea, isn't that what you big dogs are supposed to do! Anyway I did do my share of developing young Purist today and then took a hop in my neighbors BT13, now that baby sucks some fuel, 17 tows and
    then a hop in history was not a bad day.
    Sorry about the ice up there in AK, it was certainly hot here on the Florida coast today, we are setting heat records almost everyday with very little rain for this time of the year. Eric is all consumed with this landout ordeal, he may just figure
    it out soon. Take care of yourself, don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste. Old Bob, The Purister

    Hey Bobby The Hypocrite,

    You can't even admit that you were DEAD WRONG on the definition of "safari", so you continue your bloviating about being a "purist." The truth is you rarely creep out of gliding range of New Hibriscus. I have examined ALL of your OLC posted and have
    concluded this: your purported experience as a cross country glider pilot is a FRAUD! Your average flight distance is just 168 km - that hardly gets you out of glide distance of your home airport. The MAXIMUM flight distance you have had in 5 years is
    barely over 400km - that would be considered a DISASTER here at Ely. Add to that that your average speed is a paltry 36kt! This is LESS THAN stall speed!!

    Bobby, you are a JOKE masquerading as a glider pilot. To be criticizing those of us that make REAL cross country glider flights is a DISGRACE! Keith Essex recently did a 1,535km flight on THERMALS ALONE, a REMARKABLE feat that you met with SILENCE. Yet,
    you would DISMISS that flight because he flew a MOTORGLIDER!

    Bobby, I recommend that you GET A LIFE and smell the roses. You are a pathetic glider pilot who only wants to denigrate others of superior airmanship skills.

    Tom
    Hey Richard Noggin, or DH, you are certainly worthy of either title. Sorry that the truth about the dark side of soaring gets you so irritated, you should get a better grip on yourself, calm down and maybe take a few valium.
    You are trying to bring Motorglider Wokeness, to the great activity and honestly it is not working. All of us true purist understand the motorglider gig for what it is and accept the fact that your diminished skills are obvious. Bring that old
    Motorglider down to Florida and we will go for a flight, you can be part of the 2023 Soaring Safari. Your best friend, Old Bob, The Purist

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 25 15:13:32 2022
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."

    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/

    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.

    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Mon Jul 25 15:32:37 2022
    On 7/25/2022 3:13 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."

    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

        https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/

    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler
    at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with
    that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.

    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.

    I didn't read far enough into the blog the first time, and just assumed they were in their
    sailboat; apparently they are traveling in their tugboat this trip.

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Mon Jul 25 16:08:11 2022
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow. Wish I
    would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist

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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jul 25 17:01:11 2022
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow. Wish
    I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist

    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From jfitch@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Mon Jul 25 18:26:39 2022
    I'm not sure why, but not all flights show up on FlightAware or other such websites. Seems to miss many of them, even though ADSB out is on for all.

    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 4:01:23 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow.
    Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From jfitch@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jul 25 18:23:38 2022
    While I do own a sailboat, I have sailed it home to SF Bay where the wind blows, and bought this little trawler for the PNW where there is rarely wind, and it rains a lot. It is the first motorboat I've ever owned. A sailboat is the wrong tool for
    cruising up here, sailboats are commonly called "trawlers with masts" because they spend about 99% of the time motoring. I had the sailboat here for 4 seasons before giving up and sailing it down the coast.

    I rarely post on OLC, the only time I have done so was when it was the required way to submit results in a competition. I have no interest in posting to OLC. This year the only flying I've done was at the Region 11 FAI (in fact flew home interrupting the
    cruise to do it). Have spent the rest of the time on the boat. The trawler is not as efficient as the motorglider: I can burn <2 liters of 100LL in the ASH26Mi for launch (it is almost always the same 8 minutes tach time from start to shutoff in the
    first thermal) and then fly 500 miles in 6 hours. If you had a contest where the amount of fuel used for launches was limited, the motorgliders would win over the Pawnee towed gliders hands down every time.

    The trawler gets about 3.7 mpg burning diesel if I keep the speed at 7 knots. It will do about 15 max, with the mpg degraded to well <1 mpg. So we go 7 knots. Last bought fuel in Ketchikan, $1200 was the bill for 1/2 tank. It isn't a cheap (or
    environmentally sensitive) way to travel. The sailboat is a little better on fuel, around 6 mpg if motoring (and it's 50% longer too). Of course sailing, no diesel is burnt, but it isn't free either - I just ordered a new mainsail (the last one has about
    16,000 miles on it) and the price is just short of $20K. So motoring might actually be cheaper on the sailboat than sailing.
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 3:08:12 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow. Wish
    I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to jfitch on Mon Jul 25 20:17:57 2022
    Odd, and suggests there is something amiss with your ADSB. All my Phoenix flights show up
    on FlightAware. Do other ADSB gliders flying from Truckee have the same problem?

    On 7/25/2022 6:26 PM, jfitch wrote:
    I'm not sure why, but not all flights show up on FlightAware or other such websites. Seems to miss many of them, even though ADSB out is on for all.

    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 4:01:23 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow.
    Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications


    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jul 25 22:46:53 2022
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 4:28:17 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 9:39:36 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 5:24:19 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    Old Bob, don't worry too much about me. Back on the internet, this time due to some temporary cell coverage in Haines, AK. Not too much soaring here - it has rained for 2 weeks straight, and in any case ice fields are poor producers of thermals.
    I haven't killed any whales yet, they are hard to chase down in this 7 knot boat.

    A primary component of any definition of "safari" is that it is an expedition, meaning going somewhere, not a cookout in the back yard. To do a soaring safari with Pawnee launched gliders requires that a Pawnee tag along the whole distance. Has
    been done many times of course, but is expensive and the guy driving the Pawnee has no fun. In contrast you can do a solo safari in a motorglider, we met such a person in Ely one year, had landed his trailer in New Orleans from Germany, assembled it
    there, and was flying his DG-800 all around the western states, about 2 months in.

    Eric - I don't blame Old Bob for trying to get back to the airport in that swamp of a state. But the idea of land outs as a badge of manliness needs to be discouraged as it costs me money. Something like 40% of the sailplane landing accident
    claims are from off-field landings. Since these comprise only perhaps <1% of the total landings, that makes an insurance claim (paid for by premiums from you and me) 40x more likely in an off-field landing than an on-field.
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 4:55:19 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/22/2022 2:39 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me!
    Why worry about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
    Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old
    Bob, The Purist
    I looked at all 74 flights you've posted on the OLC since 2018. All started and ended at
    Hibiscus. If I made an error, please, tell us which flights did not end at Hibiscus.

    Would you fly your towplane without wheel brakes? I also taxi, so I need the brake for
    that, just as you do. I also use it to ensure I turn off the runway at the correct
    taxiway; often, there are other gliders on that taxiway that have just come off the
    runway, and haven't had time to move their glider (almost always a "purist"; motorgliders
    just fire up and taxi to their tiedown), so I need the brake to avoid hitting them. I
    could, of course, do like a purist, and stop on the runway, blocking it for several
    minutes until it's finally pushed off the runway :^) I hope I'm not telling you anything
    you don't know!

    Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
    landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
    final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
    more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
    have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
    Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
    than others.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not
    returning to the same point.
    Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
    The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than
    us purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
    I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
    Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
    It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Yes, landing back at the start point is not a bad idea, isn't that what you big dogs are supposed to do! Anyway I did do my share of developing young Purist today and then took a hop in my neighbors BT13, now that baby sucks some fuel, 17 tows and
    then a hop in history was not a bad day.
    Sorry about the ice up there in AK, it was certainly hot here on the Florida coast today, we are setting heat records almost everyday with very little rain for this time of the year. Eric is all consumed with this landout ordeal, he may just figure
    it out soon. Take care of yourself, don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste. Old Bob, The Purister

    Hey Bobby The Hypocrite,

    You can't even admit that you were DEAD WRONG on the definition of "safari", so you continue your bloviating about being a "purist." The truth is you rarely creep out of gliding range of New Hibriscus. I have examined ALL of your OLC posted and have
    concluded this: your purported experience as a cross country glider pilot is a FRAUD! Your average flight distance is just 168 km - that hardly gets you out of glide distance of your home airport. The MAXIMUM flight distance you have had in 5 years is
    barely over 400km - that would be considered a DISASTER here at Ely. Add to that that your average speed is a paltry 36kt! This is LESS THAN stall speed!!

    Bobby, you are a JOKE masquerading as a glider pilot. To be criticizing those of us that make REAL cross country glider flights is a DISGRACE! Keith Essex recently did a 1,535km flight on THERMALS ALONE, a REMARKABLE feat that you met with SILENCE.
    Yet, you would DISMISS that flight because he flew a MOTORGLIDER!

    Bobby, I recommend that you GET A LIFE and smell the roses. You are a pathetic glider pilot who only wants to denigrate others of superior airmanship skills.

    Tom
    Hey Richard Noggin, or DH, you are certainly worthy of either title. Sorry that the truth about the dark side of soaring gets you so irritated, you should get a better grip on yourself, calm down and maybe take a few valium.
    You are trying to bring Motorglider Wokeness, to the great activity and honestly it is not working. All of us true purist understand the motorglider gig for what it is and accept the fact that your diminished skills are obvious. Bring that old
    Motorglider down to Florida and we will go for a flight, you can be part of the 2023 Soaring Safari. Your best friend, Old Bob, The Purist

    Spoken like a true FRAUD - deflect and hope that nobody notices. Sorry, I noticed, and you didn't refute a SINGLE point I made. Hence, you AGREE!

    Tom

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Tue Jul 26 08:21:50 2022
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 8:01:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow.
    Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen".
    Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet still do
    a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jul 26 10:46:33 2022
    On 7/26/2022 8:21 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 8:01:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow.
    Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen".
    Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet still
    do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist

    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Tue Jul 26 13:22:31 2022
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/26/2022 8:21 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 8:01:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow.
    Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not
    Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet still
    do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    FAI probably will not accept ADSB, let me know if it does! You motorglider guys have a history of tricking recorders. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Tue Jul 26 15:28:41 2022
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/26/2022 8:21 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 8:01:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow.
    Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not
    Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet still
    do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, I know the answer, Ole Fitch did not want anyone to know that he started his motor to get home, so he never posted the flights. Old Bob, The Purist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jul 26 15:29:44 2022
    On 7/26/2022 1:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not
    Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet still
    do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    FAI probably will not accept ADSB, let me know if it does! You motorglider guys have a history of tricking recorders. Old Bob, The Purist

    The "If it's not on OLC..." doesn't have anything to do with the FAI, which doesn't accept
    OLC for validating flights. What's your point?

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jul 26 15:21:47 2022
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:22:33 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/26/2022 8:21 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 8:01:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote: >>>> On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow.
    Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not
    Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet
    still do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    FAI probably will not accept ADSB, let me know if it does! You motorglider guys have a history of tricking recorders. Old Bob, The Purist

    I notice that you did not cite even a single case of that happening - not surprising coming from a fraudster.

    Tom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Tue Jul 26 18:18:52 2022
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 3:29:49 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/26/2022 1:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not
    Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet
    still do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    FAI probably will not accept ADSB, let me know if it does! You motorglider guys have a history of tricking recorders. Old Bob, The Purist
    The "If it's not on OLC..." doesn't have anything to do with the FAI, which doesn't accept
    OLC for validating flights. What's your point?
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    Bobby the Hypocrite's point is libel and obfuscation. He is NOT a real X-country glider pilot and only wants to demean those that are. He can't even cite a SINGLE case of an MG pilot "tricking" the flight recorder.

    Tom

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  • From jfitch@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jul 26 21:58:05 2022
    Old Bob, you know very little about what I do and don't do. Fortunately I don't care what you (or others) might think about my flying, which is why I don't bother posting on OLC. People who know me, and fly with me, know what I do. But if you are
    obsessed with my flying, you can find some of these recorded in the SSA competition archives and yes, it is more than 3 flights in the last few years, and no, the motor was not used for retrieves.

    You need to come out to Truckee and fly where getting home can be a challenge, then you can boast about it. Or do some cross country in a motorglider, then you could at least talk about it intelligently.
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:28:43 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/26/2022 8:21 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 8:01:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote: >>>> On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow.
    Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not
    Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet
    still do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, I know the answer, Ole Fitch did not want anyone to know that he started his motor to get home, so he never posted the flights. Old Bob, The Purist

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  • From jfitch@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Tue Jul 26 22:01:22 2022
    Some missing flights from Truckee, and I think one at least from Williams. I can't explain why. Most flights from Truckee I am talking to Norcal Approach and they clearly see me. We are also (at Truckee) a tower controlled airport now and the tower can
    see me. My ADSB is a TABS install, perhaps some of the FlightAware receiving network is discounting those?

    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 7:18:04 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    Odd, and suggests there is something amiss with your ADSB. All my Phoenix flights show up
    on FlightAware. Do other ADSB gliders flying from Truckee have the same problem?
    On 7/25/2022 6:26 PM, jfitch wrote:
    I'm not sure why, but not all flights show up on FlightAware or other such websites. Seems to miss many of them, even though ADSB out is on for all.

    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 4:01:23 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow.
    Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications


    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to jfitch on Wed Jul 27 04:36:20 2022
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:58:07 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    Old Bob, you know very little about what I do and don't do. Fortunately I don't care what you (or others) might think about my flying, which is why I don't bother posting on OLC. People who know me, and fly with me, know what I do. But if you are
    obsessed with my flying, you can find some of these recorded in the SSA competition archives and yes, it is more than 3 flights in the last few years, and no, the motor was not used for retrieves.

    You need to come out to Truckee and fly where getting home can be a challenge, then you can boast about it. Or do some cross country in a motorglider, then you could at least talk about it intelligently.
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:28:43 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/26/2022 8:21 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 8:01:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote: >>>> On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a
    tow. Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not
    Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet
    still do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, I know the answer, Ole Fitch did not want anyone to know that he started his motor to get home, so he never posted the flights. Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, I really don't care about your flights, it was Eric that told me to take a look at your flights and I would be impressed, that turned out not to be the case. Eric, was probably not aware that you were a three flight man, had he known that he would
    probably not used you as an example.
    Some individuals do not post their flights when they land out or violate airspace, I certainly hope that was not the issue. You know back in the day, around the mid 70's to late 80's we flew most every day and never recorded a flight unless we were going
    for some type of flight achievement. Back around the early 80's Alfonso and I took off out of Thermal Research and crossed he everglades and flew to about where Seminole Lake is today and returned to Thermal Research after crossing the everglades again
    for the return home, To this day it is probably the best out and return ever for Florida, yet we had no way of proving it, so I accept the consequences of no record, no flight. Old Bob, The Purist

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Glenn Betzoldt@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jul 27 06:09:12 2022
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 7:36:22 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:58:07 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    Old Bob, you know very little about what I do and don't do. Fortunately I don't care what you (or others) might think about my flying, which is why I don't bother posting on OLC. People who know me, and fly with me, know what I do. But if you are
    obsessed with my flying, you can find some of these recorded in the SSA competition archives and yes, it is more than 3 flights in the last few years, and no, the motor was not used for retrieves.

    You need to come out to Truckee and fly where getting home can be a challenge, then you can boast about it. Or do some cross country in a motorglider, then you could at least talk about it intelligently.
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:28:43 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/26/2022 8:21 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 8:01:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed. >>>> --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a
    tow. Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not
    Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet
    still do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, I know the answer, Ole Fitch did not want anyone to know that he started his motor to get home, so he never posted the flights. Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, I really don't care about your flights, it was Eric that told me to take a look at your flights and I would be impressed, that turned out not to be the case. Eric, was probably not aware that you were a three flight man, had he known that he
    would probably not used you as an example.
    Some individuals do not post their flights when they land out or violate airspace, I certainly hope that was not the issue. You know back in the day, around the mid 70's to late 80's we flew most every day and never recorded a flight unless we were
    going for some type of flight achievement. Back around the early 80's Alfonso and I took off out of Thermal Research and crossed he everglades and flew to about where Seminole Lake is today and returned to Thermal Research after crossing the everglades
    again for the return home, To this day it is probably the best out and return ever for Florida, yet we had no way of proving it, so I accept the consequences of no record, no flight. Old Bob, The Purist


    Sorry Old Bob but Andy McQuigg has the longest Out & Return in the state of Florida 418 miles in 1984 and he could prove it if he was still with us..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jul 27 06:27:58 2022
    On 7/27/2022 4:36 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    Fitch, I really don't care about your flights, it was Eric that told me to take a look at your flights and I would be impressed, that turned out not to be the case. Eric, was probably not aware that you were a three flight man, had he known that he
    would probably not used you as an example.

    Short-term memory lapse? I already gave you a FlightAware link showing four of Jon's
    flights for 2022!

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Glenn Betzoldt on Wed Jul 27 08:56:47 2022
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 9:09:14 AM UTC-4, Glenn Betzoldt wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 7:36:22 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:58:07 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
    Old Bob, you know very little about what I do and don't do. Fortunately I don't care what you (or others) might think about my flying, which is why I don't bother posting on OLC. People who know me, and fly with me, know what I do. But if you are
    obsessed with my flying, you can find some of these recorded in the SSA competition archives and yes, it is more than 3 flights in the last few years, and no, the motor was not used for retrieves.

    You need to come out to Truckee and fly where getting home can be a challenge, then you can boast about it. Or do some cross country in a motorglider, then you could at least talk about it intelligently.
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:28:43 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:46:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/26/2022 8:21 AM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 8:01:23 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/25/2022 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 6:13:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

    "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
    "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

    https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
    Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
    Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
    excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
    poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
    used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed. >>>> --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him
    a tow. Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist
    I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
    Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

    You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!
    --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
    https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did
    Not Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
    I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore,
    yet still do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
    Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

    I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
    amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
    records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on. --
    Eric Greenwell - USA
    - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
    Eric, I know the answer, Ole Fitch did not want anyone to know that he started his motor to get home, so he never posted the flights. Old Bob, The Purist
    Fitch, I really don't care about your flights, it was Eric that told me to take a look at your flights and I would be impressed, that turned out not to be the case. Eric, was probably not aware that you were a three flight man, had he known that he
    would probably not used you as an example.
    Some individuals do not post their flights when they land out or violate airspace, I certainly hope that was not the issue. You know back in the day, around the mid 70's to late 80's we flew most every day and never recorded a flight unless we were
    going for some type of flight achievement. Back around the early 80's Alfonso and I took off out of Thermal Research and crossed he everglades and flew to about where Seminole Lake is today and returned to Thermal Research after crossing the everglades
    again for the return home, To this day it is probably the best out and return ever for Florida, yet we had no way of proving it, so I accept the consequences of no record, no flight. Old Bob, The Purist
    Sorry Old Bob but Andy McQuigg has the longest Out & Return in the state of Florida 418 miles in 1984 and he could prove it if he was still with us..
    Thanks for the correction Glenn, E9 and we did our flight in about 1981-82, I had a new 20 and Alfonso was flying Checho's 20 at the time. Ours was about 180 plus nautical miles one way, I do not recall which track Andy took.
    Andy would fly with us often , seems like he had a new glider most every year. Next time you see Billy Kearns ask him how Andy got along with 41, you may get a few laughs!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Herbert Kilian@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 28 15:21:40 2022
    Folks, don't listen to the Pompous Purist, he has no clue. John Good wrote this today in his daily report from Szeged, Hungary, the location of the current Worlds for 18m, 20m two seat and Open Class.

    "I checked with the contest Scoring Office today and learned that of the 82 gliders in WGC2022, just five are unmotorized (all in 18-Meter class). I understand the reasons for this: modern gliders carry weight well; modern pilots like the assurance of
    getting home, and have the money to pay for it. But I can’t help feeling that this seems a bit “off”. I imagine a future World Championships at which an interested but naïve spectator is a visitor. Friendly competitors are proudly showing him
    their aircraft, explaining that this is the world championship of motorless flight, and how in the right weather they race around 500 km tasks at 130 kph using just the sun’s energy. He’s suitably impressed, and examines one glider carefully. He’
    s curious about a sort of hatch on top of the fuselage, and it's opened for him.
    “So, what’s this thing inside, that looks like it has a propeller attached to it?”
    “That’s the engine – all the gliders here have engines.”
    “But I thought you said it was a competition of motorless flight.”
    “It is – but you must have an engine to be competitive.”
    “You need a motor to do motorless flight?”
    “Well, we hope we don’t have to use it – but you can’t realistically expect to win without one.”"

    Herb (not Herbie), J7

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