Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

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On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC-4, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

Ken, most states will get notification from the FAA that a sale has been completed in that state, so look for California to send you a tax bill notification. If California is anything like Florida, which I am glad that there are many differences, the
local tax office will have no idea as to how to handle the tax on the sale. Tax in Florida is not due until the craft enters the state, so the best thing for you to do to avoid a problem is to contact the state revenue department and ask what their
procedure is in reference to sales tax this might just save you a headache later on. Old Bob, The Purist

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On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 7:14:58 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC-4, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

Ken, most states will get notification from the FAA that a sale has been completed in that state, so look for California to send you a tax bill notification. If California is anything like Florida, which I am glad that there are many differences, the

local tax office will have no idea as to how to handle the tax on the sale. Tax in Florida is not due until the craft enters the state, so the best thing for you to do to avoid a problem is to contact the state revenue department and ask what their
procedure is in reference to sales tax this might just save you a headache later on. Old Bob, The Purist

CA may have changed the rules. 20+ Yrs ago many CA residents would get around the CA sales tax issue by keeping the glider out of state a set number of months after purchase before taking the glider into CA. They would park the glider at our NV club, pay
for tows from the club, guest membership fees, etc. with proper dated invoices to have proof the glider was not in CA and was actually used out of state.

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On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 11:30:13 PM UTC-7, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

I believe it is just like a boat. You will get assessed property tax by the county where you keep the glider, due to Prop 13 this is limited to 1% of the value/year, though many counties have figured out a way to inflate that a little.

Sales and Use tax is the big one. You must take delivery outside of the state, then keep and use the glider for 180 of the first 365 days of ownership. If you do so it is presumed that you did not buy it for use primarily in California, and can apply for
an exemption. You will probably receive a tax bill (this may happen even 1 or 2 years after purchase) for use tax, and must apply to the tax board for an exemption with documentation of delivery outside of the state, and use outside of the state for 180
days in in the first year. They should grant the exemption, once granted the exemption is permanent, i.e., you can then store and use the glider wherever you like.

I've done this twice with boats and once with a glider. They will check your claims, I had them call several of the referenced businesses to verify the receipts and written documents I submitted.

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On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 6:39:25 AM UTC-6, Bill Tisdale wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 7:14:58 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC-4, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

Ken, most states will get notification from the FAA that a sale has been completed in that state, so look for California to send you a tax bill notification. If California is anything like Florida, which I am glad that there are many differences, the

local tax office will have no idea as to how to handle the tax on the sale. Tax in Florida is not due until the craft enters the state, so the best thing for you to do to avoid a problem is to contact the state revenue department and ask what their
procedure is in reference to sales tax this might just save you a headache later on. Old Bob, The Purist

CA may have changed the rules. 20+ Yrs ago many CA residents would get around the CA sales tax issue by keeping the glider out of state a set number of months after purchase before taking the glider into CA. They would park the glider at our NV club,

pay for tows from the club, guest membership fees, etc. with proper dated invoices to have proof the glider was not in CA and was actually used out of state.

You do not pay sales tax on a used glider in CA unless tax rules have recently changed. It doesn't apply to motorgliders but the FTB is not sophisticated enough to know the difference. You will get a sales tax bill. Reply saying it's a glider and
exempt from CA sales tax. You will not be required to pay. I lived in CA for over 20 years and bought (and sold) many sailplanes at that time. I never paid sales tax.

You are required to pay 1% annual property tax. Your county will send an assessment questionnaire asking about your glider's details. However, if you base your glider at an airport that is not in the same county you reply saying that it's not in your
county. They will send another letter asking which county it's located in so they can notify that county tax assessor. You reply "It's not in your jurisdiction". They will send another letter demanding to know the exact location. You then reply, "I'm
not required to disclose property I own outside of your jurisdiction". Of course, you are no doubt obligated to notify the appropriate tax assessor on your own...

Another tactic the county tax assessor uses is sending a person to the local airport. They look for gliders tied out and trailers. If your glider is tied out, they get your n-number and send a tax bill. On trailers, they take note of your license plate,
look it up, and then send a tax bill. There is nothing to look up if your license plate isn't on the trailer while at the airport ;)

Sean

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On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 5:39:25 AM UTC-7, Bill Tisdale wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 7:14:58 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC-4, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

Ken, most states will get notification from the FAA that a sale has been completed in that state, so look for California to send you a tax bill notification. If California is anything like Florida, which I am glad that there are many differences, the

local tax office will have no idea as to how to handle the tax on the sale. Tax in Florida is not due until the craft enters the state, so the best thing for you to do to avoid a problem is to contact the state revenue department and ask what their
procedure is in reference to sales tax this might just save you a headache later on. Old Bob, The Purist

CA may have changed the rules. 20+ Yrs ago many CA residents would get around the CA sales tax issue by keeping the glider out of state a set number of months after purchase before taking the glider into CA. They would park the glider at our NV club,

pay for tows from the club, guest membership fees, etc. with proper dated invoices to have proof the glider was not in CA and was actually used out of state.



The county tax man will find your the owner of an aircraft in his county and send you a questionnaire. They deal mostly with power aircraft and seldom know anything about gliders. The next tax cycle you will get a personal property tax from your county
assessor. You owe tax on the glider only. The trailer will be taxed by DMV and they seldom know much, if anything about glider trailers. Register the trailer with DMV and they will probably want use tax and registration fee.
JJ

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On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 9:48:07 AM UTC-6, John Sinclair wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 5:39:25 AM UTC-7, Bill Tisdale wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 7:14:58 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC-4, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

Ken, most states will get notification from the FAA that a sale has been completed in that state, so look for California to send you a tax bill notification. If California is anything like Florida, which I am glad that there are many differences,

the local tax office will have no idea as to how to handle the tax on the sale. Tax in Florida is not due until the craft enters the state, so the best thing for you to do to avoid a problem is to contact the state revenue department and ask what their
procedure is in reference to sales tax this might just save you a headache later on. Old Bob, The Purist

CA may have changed the rules. 20+ Yrs ago many CA residents would get around the CA sales tax issue by keeping the glider out of state a set number of months after purchase before taking the glider into CA. They would park the glider at our NV club,

pay for tows from the club, guest membership fees, etc. with proper dated invoices to have proof the glider was not in CA and was actually used out of state.

The county tax man will find your the owner of an aircraft in his county and send you a questionnaire. They deal mostly with power aircraft and seldom know anything about gliders. The next tax cycle you will get a personal property tax from your county

assessor. You owe tax on the glider only. The trailer will be taxed by DMV and they seldom know much, if anything about glider trailers. Register the trailer with DMV and they will probably want use tax and registration fee.

JJ

@jfitch, the 180 day CA tax mitigation strategy applies for airplanes, not necessary for gliders. AIRCRAFT are subject to sales tax in CA. A (pure) glider is not considered an AIRCRAFT under CA Board of Equalization Sales Tax Regulations. Regulation
1593. AIRCRAFT AND AIRCRAFT PARTS. (a)(1) “AIRCRAFT.” As used herein, the term “aircraft” means any contrivance designed for powered navigation in the air except a rocket or missile.

Sean

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I'm scratching my head trying to come up with why the CA Board of Equalization saw fit to exclude missiles from sales tax.

Andy

@jfitch, the 180 day CA tax mitigation strategy applies for airplanes, not necessary for gliders. AIRCRAFT are subject to sales tax in CA. A (pure) glider is not considered an AIRCRAFT under CA Board of Equalization Sales Tax Regulations. Regulation

1593. AIRCRAFT AND AIRCRAFT PARTS. (a)(1) “AIRCRAFT.” As used herein, the term “aircraft” means any contrivance designed for powered navigation in the air except a rocket or missile.

Sean

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On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 3:46:20 PM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:

I'm scratching my head trying to come up with why the CA Board of Equalization saw fit to exclude missiles from sales tax.

Andy

@jfitch, the 180 day CA tax mitigation strategy applies for airplanes, not necessary for gliders. AIRCRAFT are subject to sales tax in CA. A (pure) glider is not considered an AIRCRAFT under CA Board of Equalization Sales Tax Regulations. Regulation

1593. AIRCRAFT AND AIRCRAFT PARTS. (a)(1) “AIRCRAFT.” As used herein, the term “aircraft” means any contrivance designed for powered navigation in the air except a rocket or missile.

Sean

Musk tax loop hole Andy

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I have to pay $0.01 per pound gross weight in tax for each of my aircraft.

Dan
5J

On 10/21/23 09:42, jfitch wrote:

On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 11:30:13 PM UTC-7, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

I believe it is just like a boat. You will get assessed property tax by the county where you keep the glider, due to Prop 13 this is limited to 1% of the value/year, though many counties have figured out a way to inflate that a little.

Sales and Use tax is the big one. You must take delivery outside of the state, then keep and use the glider for 180 of the first 365 days of ownership. If you do so it is presumed that you did not buy it for use primarily in California, and can apply

for an exemption. You will probably receive a tax bill (this may happen even 1 or 2 years after purchase) for use tax, and must apply to the tax board for an exemption with documentation of delivery outside of the state, and use outside of the state for
180 days in in the first year. They should grant the exemption, once granted the exemption is permanent, i.e., you can then store and use the glider wherever you like.

I've done this twice with boats and once with a glider. They will check your claims, I had them call several of the referenced businesses to verify the receipts and written documents I submitted.

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As long as they're neither black in color nor considered "assault"
missiles, why would they want to restrict them?

Dan
5J

On 10/21/23 16:46, Andy Blackburn wrote:

I'm scratching my head trying to come up with why the CA Board of Equalization saw fit to exclude missiles from sales tax.

Andy

@jfitch, the 180 day CA tax mitigation strategy applies for airplanes, not necessary for gliders. AIRCRAFT are subject to sales tax in CA. A (pure) glider is not considered an AIRCRAFT under CA Board of Equalization Sales Tax Regulations. Regulation

1593. AIRCRAFT AND AIRCRAFT PARTS. (a)(1) “AIRCRAFT.” As used herein, the term “aircraft” means any contrivance designed for powered navigation in the air except a rocket or missile.

Sean

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Oh, I get the rocket exemption, but who's buying missiles in California who also needs a tax break?

Also, aren't we talking about sales of used items? How do you buy a used missile?

A.

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 4:29:04 PM UTC-7, Ron Gleason wrote:

Musk tax loop hole Andy

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On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 7:01:19 PM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:

Oh, I get the rocket exemption, but who's buying missiles in California who also needs a tax break?

Also, aren't we talking about sales of used items? How do you buy a used missile?

A.
On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 4:29:04 PM UTC-7, Ron Gleason wrote:

Musk tax loop hole Andy

Ebay.

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On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 2:28:24 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 8:39:25 AM UTC-4, Bill Tisdale wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 7:14:58 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC-4, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

Ken, most states will get notification from the FAA that a sale has been completed in that state, so look for California to send you a tax bill notification. If California is anything like Florida, which I am glad that there are many differences,

the local tax office will have no idea as to how to handle the tax on the sale. Tax in Florida is not due until the craft enters the state, so the best thing for you to do to avoid a problem is to contact the state revenue department and ask what their
procedure is in reference to sales tax this might just save you a headache later on. Old Bob, The Purist

CA may have changed the rules. 20+ Yrs ago many CA residents would get around the CA sales tax issue by keeping the glider out of state a set number of months after purchase before taking the glider into CA. They would park the glider at our NV club,

pay for tows from the club, guest membership fees, etc. with proper dated invoices to have proof the glider was not in CA and was actually used out of state.

Bill, you mean that those California Democrats would evade taxes, what is this world coming to? OBTP

It's called "tax avoidance" when you are a California Democrat; it's called "sticking it to the Man" when you are a California Republican; it's called "tax evasion" when you register it in Oregon (no sales tax), but keep and use it in California,
regardless of your political flavor.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 8:39:25 AM UTC-4, Bill Tisdale wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 7:14:58 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC-4, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available
on the internet.
Thanks Ken

Ken, most states will get notification from the FAA that a sale has been completed in that state, so look for California to send you a tax bill notification. If California is anything like Florida, which I am glad that there are many differences, the

local tax office will have no idea as to how to handle the tax on the sale. Tax in Florida is not due until the craft enters the state, so the best thing for you to do to avoid a problem is to contact the state revenue department and ask what their
procedure is in reference to sales tax this might just save you a headache later on. Old Bob, The Purist

CA may have changed the rules. 20+ Yrs ago many CA residents would get around the CA sales tax issue by keeping the glider out of state a set number of months after purchase before taking the glider into CA. They would park the glider at our NV club,

pay for tows from the club, guest membership fees, etc. with proper dated invoices to have proof the glider was not in CA and was actually used out of state.
Bill, you mean that those California Democrats would evade taxes, what is this world coming to? OBTP

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 2:50:34 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:

On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 2:28:24 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 8:39:25 AM UTC-4, Bill Tisdale wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 7:14:58 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 2:30:13 AM UTC-4, ken smith wrote:

Hi,
I will be a buyer of a used glider, and live in CA.
I am trying to find out the following:
- will I need to pay Sales or Use tax on the purchase?
- will I be assessed an annual property tax while I own it in CA?
- are there any other unforeseen cost state costs?
Any info will be appreciated as this info is not readily available on the internet.
Thanks Ken

Ken, most states will get notification from the FAA that a sale has been completed in that state, so look for California to send you a tax bill notification. If California is anything like Florida, which I am glad that there are many differences,

the local tax office will have no idea as to how to handle the tax on the sale. Tax in Florida is not due until the craft enters the state, so the best thing for you to do to avoid a problem is to contact the state revenue department and ask what their
procedure is in reference to sales tax this might just save you a headache later on. Old Bob, The Purist

CA may have changed the rules. 20+ Yrs ago many CA residents would get around the CA sales tax issue by keeping the glider out of state a set number of months after purchase before taking the glider into CA. They would park the glider at our NV

club, pay for tows from the club, guest membership fees, etc. with proper dated invoices to have proof the glider was not in CA and was actually used out of state.

Bill, you mean that those California Democrats would evade taxes, what is this world coming to? OBTP

It's called "tax avoidance" when you are a California Democrat; it's called "sticking it to the Man" when you are a California Republican; it's called "tax evasion" when you register it in Oregon (no sales tax), but keep and use it in California,

regardless of your political flavor.








I usually had an ace in the hole when dealing with California Personal Property Tax. Most of the ships I acquired were broken and they couldn’t dispute it. Take my LS-6 for example, the fuselage was broken in 3 places and I got the high salvage bid of $
6000.00 , so that’s what I told the tax man. They called Truckee and asked what the value of a LS- 6 and they said probably $15K……………….the tax guy hit my with that and I answered that my ship was damaged………..end of discussion!

So, how can you use this tactic? Claim your ship is in poor condition and needs a refinish………….which costs 30K
So, your recent purchase of $60K, minus 10K for trailer (taxed by DMV) minus 30K because it needs a refinish, = $20K times 1% tax rate = $200.00/ year!

I advise you to pay the $200 bucks a year! You can’t just ignore them because they will assign a value to your ship and send you that bill. If you don’t pay it, they’ll place a tax lien on your ship which must be paid upon sale.

You can’t beat the taxman, but you can soften the blow,
JJ

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You can’t beat the taxman, but you can soften the blow,
JJ

It's easy to beat the California tax man.

Don't live there.

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