• Air Force command pauses M18 pistol use after airman's death at Wyoming

    From Leroy N. Soetoro@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 27 03:20:28 2025
    XPost: wyo.general, alt.politics.republicans, talk.politics.misc
    XPost: talk.politics.guns, sac.politics

    https://apnews.com/article/airman-death-sig-sauer-m18-pause- 39660361f6bdff4482020293acb79805

    The U.S. Air Force Global Strike Command has paused the use of a handgun following the death of a Security Forces airman at a base in Wyoming.

    The use of the M18 pistol, a variant of another gun that has been the
    target of lawsuits over unintentional discharge allegations, was paused
    Monday �until further notice� following the �tragic incident� Sunday at
    F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, the command said in a statement. Security Forces airmen at all command bases �will conduct 100% inspections
    of the M18 handguns to identify any immediate safety concerns,� it said.

    The airman killed was Brayden Lovan, 21, of the 90th Security Forces
    Squadron, 90th Missile Wing at the base, where he began his first active-
    duty assignment in November 2023, base officials said Thursday.

    Details of what happened are not being released pending an investigation,
    said Lt. Raegan Lockhart, public affairs officer for the 90th Missile
    Wing. How long the investigation might take isn�t known, Lockhart added.

    �We mourn the loss of a valued defender, teammate and friend. Our focus
    remains on supporting the family and team during this incredibly difficult time,� Col. Jeremy Sheppard, 90th Security Forces Group commander, said in
    a statement.

    The gun is made by New Hampshire-based manufacturer Sig Sauer, which is defending itself against multiple lawsuits alleging that its popular
    related gun, the P320 pistol, can go off without the trigger being pulled.
    Sig Sauer denies the claims, saying the P320 is safe and the problem is
    user error. It has prevailed in some cases.


    �Our hearts are with the service members and families impacted by the
    recent reported event at the F.E. Warren Air Force Base,� Sig Sauer said Wednesday in a statement posted on Facebook.

    The P320 was adopted by the U.S. military as M17 and M18 pistols, and the
    M18 is now the official sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, Sig
    Sauer says on its website. In 2019, Sig Sauer announced it had delivered
    its 100,000th M17 and M18s to the U.S. military.

    The pause is so far limited to the Global Strike Command, which includes
    more than 33,700 airmen and civilians. The rest of the Air Force and the
    other armed services have not announced any orders to avoid using the
    pistols.

    The Army values its forces� safety and would continue to �monitor the situation,� it said in a statement that did not mention any plan to halt
    using the firearm.

    The Marine Corps also uses the firearm, and said it was �rigorously
    tested� to Defense Department standards before being chosen for use by the Marines.

    �We have not seen any evidence that indicates design or manufacturing
    issues are present,� the Marine Corps said in an emailed statement.

    The Air Force Office of Special Investigations is leading an effort, in collaboration with the Air Force Security Forces Center and Headquarters
    Air Force Security Forces, �to conduct a thorough review of the M18 and
    develop appropriate corrective measures.� Sig Sauer said it has offered to assist.

    The P320 was introduced in 2014. Sig Sauer offered a �voluntary upgrade�
    in 2017 to reduce the weight of the trigger, among other features. Lawyers
    for people who have sued the gunmaker, many of them law enforcement
    officers, say the upgrade did not stop unintentional discharges.

    Earlier this year, Sig Sauer appealed a ban of the P320, M17 and M18
    pistols by the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission,
    arguing that it appears to be based on inaccurate and incomplete
    information. The commission banned the weapons after a recruit said his
    P320 discharged while he was drawing it, even though his finger was not on
    the trigger.

    And just this month, Sig Sauer announced that the Michigan State Police is adopting the M18 as its primary sidearm.

    Several large multi-plaintiff cases have been filed since 2022 in New Hampshire�s federal court, representing nearly 80 people who accuse Sig
    Sauer of negligence and defective product design and marketing. That�s in addition to lawsuits filed in other states, including one in Pennsylvania
    last year alleging a wrongful death.

    They say the P320 design requires an external mechanical safety, a feature
    that is optional. The most recent New Hampshire case, representing 22 plaintiffs in 16 states, was filed in March. A judge heard arguments
    Monday on Sig Sauer�s motions to dismiss the lawsuit or break it up and transfer it to districts where the plaintiffs live.

    There also was discussion of a 2-month-old law in New Hampshire, created
    in response to the lawsuits, that prohibits product liability claims
    against Sig Sauer and other gun makers based on the �absence or presence�
    of the external safety and several other optional features. Claims can
    still be filed over manufacturing defects. The law hasn�t yet been
    incorporated into the case.


    --
    November 5, 2024 - Congratulations President Donald Trump. We look
    forward to America being great again.

    We live in a time where intelligent people are being silenced so that
    stupid people won't be offended.

    Every day is an IQ test. Some pass, some, not so much.

    Thank you for cleaning up the disasters of the 2008-2017, 2020-2024 Obama
    / Biden / Harris fiascos, President Trump.

    Under Barack Obama's leadership, the United States of America became the
    The World According To Garp. Obama sold out heterosexuals for Hollywood
    queer liberal democrat donors.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Leroy N. Soetoro on Sun Jul 27 00:33:00 2025
    XPost: alt.politics.republicans, talk.politics.misc, talk.politics.guns
    XPost: sac.politics

    On 7/26/25 11:20 PM, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    https://apnews.com/article/airman-death-sig-sauer-m18-pause- 39660361f6bdff4482020293acb79805

    The U.S. Air Force Global Strike Command has paused the use of a handgun following the death of a Security Forces airman at a base in Wyoming.

    The use of the M18 pistol, a variant of another gun that has been the
    target of lawsuits over unintentional discharge allegations, was paused Monday “until further notice” following the “tragic incident” Sunday at
    F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, the command said in a statement. Security Forces airmen at all command bases “will conduct 100% inspections of the M18 handguns to identify any immediate safety concerns,” it said.


    Hey, they're mechanical devices. Designs can
    have unexpected flaws.

    The grooves for the trigger sear might be too shallow,
    or mis-matched hardness might make one or the other
    part wear down too soon.

    One fired a revolver the owner had "improved". He'd
    filed back the parts to the point where it'd fire
    if you basically breathed on it. NOT safe ! Better
    to have a little more trigger pull than a trigger
    that can pull itself. UN-improved the best I could
    with the tools at hand ... still was like a 2.5 oz
    pull alas ...

    Guns should fire when YOU need them to, and never
    otherwise.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pappy@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 27 21:12:34 2025
    XPost: wyo.general, talk.politics.guns, alt.law-enforcement
    XPost: seattle.politics, or.politics

    On 7/27/2025 8:21 PM, a425couple wrote:
    Very strange.  During my career in law enforcement, around 1990, it was
    time for our department to change firearms.  We went to the Sig Sauer
    model P226, 9mm.  It was fine.
    I am always perplexed by these reports of accidental discharge when
    they claim it was a mechanical problem.  OK, I'm skeptical.
    But, somehow there seem to have been an unusual number where no
    finger was near the trigger and nothing else got near the trigger.

    I have never been a fan of striker-fired weapons. If I'm not mistaken,
    the P226 is not striker-fired; A different animal than a P320.


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Leroy N. Soetoro on Sun Jul 27 20:21:32 2025
    XPost: wyo.general, talk.politics.guns, alt.law-enforcement
    XPost: seattle.politics, or.politics

    On 7/26/25 20:20, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    https://apnews.com/article/airman-death-sig-sauer-m18-pause- 39660361f6bdff4482020293acb79805

    The U.S. Air Force Global Strike Command has paused the use of a handgun following the death of a Security Forces airman at a base in Wyoming.

    The use of the M18 pistol, a variant of another gun that has been the
    target of lawsuits over unintentional discharge allegations, was paused Monday “until further notice” following the “tragic incident” Sunday at
    F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, the command said in a statement. Security Forces airmen at all command bases “will conduct 100% inspections of the M18 handguns to identify any immediate safety concerns,” it said.

    The airman killed was Brayden Lovan, 21, of the 90th Security Forces Squadron, 90th Missile Wing at the base, where he began his first active- duty assignment in November 2023, base officials said Thursday.

    Details of what happened are not being released pending an investigation, said Lt. Raegan Lockhart, public affairs officer for the 90th Missile
    Wing. How long the investigation might take isn’t known, Lockhart added.

    “We mourn the loss of a valued defender, teammate and friend. Our focus remains on supporting the family and team during this incredibly difficult time,” Col. Jeremy Sheppard, 90th Security Forces Group commander, said in a statement.

    The gun is made by New Hampshire-based manufacturer Sig Sauer, which is defending itself against multiple lawsuits alleging that its popular
    related gun, the P320 pistol, can go off without the trigger being pulled. Sig Sauer denies the claims, saying the P320 is safe and the problem is
    user error. It has prevailed in some cases.

    Very strange. During my career in law enforcement, around 1990, it was
    time for our department to change firearms. We went to the Sig Sauer
    model P226, 9mm. It was fine.
    I am always perplexed by these reports of accidental discharge when
    they claim it was a mechanical problem. OK, I'm skeptical.
    But, somehow there seem to have been an unusual number where no
    finger was near the trigger and nothing else got near the trigger.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Pappy on Tue Jul 29 09:41:44 2025
    XPost: wyo.general, talk.politics.guns, alt.law-enforcement
    XPost: seattle.politics, or.politics

    On 7/27/25 21:12, Pappy wrote:
    On 7/27/2025 8:21 PM, a425couple wrote:
    Very strange.  During my career in law enforcement, around 1990, it was
    time for our department to change firearms.  We went to the Sig Sauer
    model P226, 9mm.  It was fine.
    I am always perplexed by these reports of accidental discharge when
    they claim it was a mechanical problem.  OK, I'm skeptical.
    But, somehow there seem to have been an unusual number where no
    finger was near the trigger and nothing else got near the trigger.

    I have never been a fan of striker-fired weapons. If I'm not mistaken,
    the P226 is not striker-fired; A different animal than a P320.

    Thanks Pappy, exactly correct.

    Is a Sig Sauer P320 a stricker fired weapon?
    AI Overview
    Yes, the Sig Sauer P320 is a striker-fired pistol. In striker-fired
    systems, the firing pin (or striker) is held back by spring tension and released to fire the gun, unlike hammer-fired systems where a hammer
    strikes the firing pin. The P320 uses this striker-fired mechanism and
    is known for its modularity and ability to be reconfigured with
    different frames and slides.

    Is a Sig Sauer P226 a stricker fired weapon?
    AI Overview
    No, the Sig Sauer P228 is not a striker-fired weapon

    Also, the Colt 1911 .45 is not a striker-fired weapon

    To clarify:
    AI Overview
    A "striker fired" gun is a type of semi-automatic pistol that uses a spring-loaded firing pin (the striker) to ignite the cartridge, rather
    than a hammer. When the trigger is pulled, the striker is released and propelled forward to strike the primer of the cartridge, firing the gun.
    These pistols are known for their simple design, reliability, and lack
    of an external hammer.
    Here's a more detailed explanation:
    Striker Fired vs. Hammer Fired:
    Striker Fired:
    .
    In a striker-fired pistol, the firing pin (striker) is held under spring tension until the trigger is pulled, releasing the striker to fire the gun. Hammer Fired:
    .
    In a hammer-fired pistol, a hammer is manually or automatically cocked
    (usually by the slide cycling) and then released by the trigger,
    striking the firing pin.
    Key Features of Striker-Fired Pistols:
    Simple Design:
    They have fewer parts compared to hammer-fired pistols, leading to
    potentially fewer malfunctions and easier maintenance.
    Consistency:
    The trigger pull on most striker-fired guns is generally consistent,
    which can be beneficial for developing muscle memory and consistent shot placement.
    Concealability:
    Striker-fired pistols often have a smooth profile without an external
    hammer, which can make them easier to conceal and less prone to snagging. Internal Safeties:
    While they may not have an external safety, striker-fired pistols often
    have internal safeties to prevent accidental discharge if dropped.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)