• Re: `red-lining

    From Paul in Houston TX@21:1/5 to micky on Thu Mar 3 12:47:28 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 3 20:39:32 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Mar 3 22:03:12 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod >destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.

    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?

    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!

    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Bob F on Fri Mar 4 07:59:48 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly >>>> to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes overheat
    and you can't stop.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob F@21:1/5 to micky on Thu Mar 3 12:49:46 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.

    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?

    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!

    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rod Speed@21:1/5 to micky on Fri Mar 4 08:01:52 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    micky <[email protected]> wrote

    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    Undesirable in both scenarios.

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    The trick is to downshift before the speed is high enough to get it to redline.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Pawlowski@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Thu Mar 3 16:43:18 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 3:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly >>>>> to 5500, the apparent red line.   For several seconds was at 5000 and >>>>> even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod
    destroying the engine.  I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
     So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
     Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think you >>> came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
     This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3.  A rental with only 9000 miles on >>> it, so it must be new.   I think I bought the insurance, but regardless, >>> I don't want to hurt the car.    mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd gear >>> and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    Smart drivers know when engine braking is needed and when not. Depends
    on conditions but it is not good practice to do all the time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob F@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Thu Mar 3 14:37:46 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly >>>>> to 5500, the apparent red line.   For several seconds was at 5000 and >>>>> even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod
    destroying the engine.  I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
     So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
     Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think you >>> came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
     This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3.  A rental with only 9000 miles on >>> it, so it must be new.   I think I bought the insurance, but regardless, >>> I don't want to hurt the car.    mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd gear >>> and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right. Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine. That should not be general practice if you care about your
    vehicle. If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather
    than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is
    just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better
    than over-reving.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Real Bev@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Thu Mar 3 14:38:21 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly >>>>> to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and >>>>> even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who installed >>>> a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think you >>> came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but regardless, >>> I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd gear >>> and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    "A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person
    or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even
    possibly incurring losses." -- C.M.Cipolla

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Real Bev@21:1/5 to Bob F on Thu Mar 3 14:36:14 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 03/03/2022 12:49 PM, Bob F wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Exactly.

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    "A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person
    or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even
    possibly incurring losses." -- C.M.Cipolla

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Fri Mar 4 09:44:50 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 08:43:18 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 3:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston >>>> TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving >>>>>> the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went
    briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000
    and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod >>>>> destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think
    you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on >>>> it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.
    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    Smart drivers know when engine braking is needed and when not. Depends
    on conditions but it is not good practice to do all the time.

    Micky isn't doing it all the time and it does no hard to
    do it all the time and does see less wear on the brakes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Bob F on Fri Mar 4 09:51:00 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston >>>> TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving >>>>>> the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went
    briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000
    and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod >>>>> destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think
    you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on >>>> it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.
    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.

    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.

    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your vehicle.

    That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather than
    keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is just
    stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better than over-reving.

    But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 4 09:53:35 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston >>>> TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving >>>>>> the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went
    briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000
    and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod >>>>> destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think
    you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on >>>> it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down. All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Mar 4 01:13:36 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev <[email protected]> >wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston >>>>> TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving >>>>>>> the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went
    briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 >>>>>>> and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod >>>>>> destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think >>>>> you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on >>>>> it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his >>>> lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace >>>> than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this Citroen has 4-wheel disks.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much
    less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of the
    car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
    overheating even drum brakes.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.

    That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly
    and unexpectedly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Bob F on Thu Mar 3 17:17:40 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 2:49 PM, Bob F wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600,
    Paul in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine
    is driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and
    today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then
    engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds
    was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a
    piston rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person
    who installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.

    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?

    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I
    would think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!

    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only
    9000 miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance,
    but regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower
    than 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached his lot, and immediately told me that breaks were
    a lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.

    +1
    My engine builder says that too.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    <www.yellowjersey.org/>
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Pawlowski@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Thu Mar 3 18:36:46 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
    his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to
    replace than engine and clutch.
     Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.

    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.

    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    More rpm = more wear. Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your  vehicle.

    That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    But at the cost of engine wear. I don't know the $$ figure but there is
    one. Brakes are pretty cheap though.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob F@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Thu Mar 3 15:49:49 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 3:36 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
    his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to
    replace than engine and clutch.
     Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.

    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.

    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    More rpm = more wear.  Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your  vehicle.

    That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    But at the cost of engine wear.  I don't know the $$ figure but there is one. Brakes are pretty cheap though.

    And tranny clutches are not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to micky on Fri Mar 4 10:52:25 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:13:36 +1100, micky <[email protected]> wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in
    Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is
    driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 >>>>>>>> and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston >>>>>>> rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think >>>>>> you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles >>>>>> on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd >>>>>> gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
    his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to
    replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat,

    Thats wrong.

    and I think this Citroen has 4-wheel disks.

    Yes it does.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much
    less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of the
    car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    That's what I meant. And with a car you are not familiar with
    it makes sense to play safe.

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
    overheating even drum brakes.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.

    That would have been next to impossible.

    No it isn't.

    Thhe hills show up quickly and unexpectedly.

    You ALWAYS come over the crest and can see what is in front of you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Snag@21:1/5 to micky on Thu Mar 3 19:29:40 2022
    On 3/3/2022 12:39 PM, micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.


    Downshift as you brake to so engine RPM matches your speed . I never
    engine brake over 2/3 of redline .
    --
    Snag
    My rights don't end
    where your fear begins .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Fri Mar 4 12:41:51 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:36:46 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
    his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to
    replace than engine and clutch.
    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.

    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.
    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    More rpm = more wear.

    Mindlessly simplistic. In the real world, engines last longer
    doing lots of long trips rather than short ones around town.

    And the reality is that modern car engines hardly
    ever need replacing due to wear anymore.

    Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

    Or those like you not understanding how engines work.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your vehicle.
    That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    But at the cost of engine wear. I don't know the $$ figure but there is
    one. Brakes are pretty cheap though.

    The reality is that hardly anyone needs a new engine
    due to wear and almost everyone needs new brake
    pads and sometimes discs too due to wear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Fri Mar 4 02:28:16 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In article <[email protected]>, Jacob Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

    You ALWAYS come over the crest and can see what is in front of you.

    Unfortunately sometimes it is a giant truck passing another vehicle and
    headed straight for you in your lane.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob F@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Thu Mar 3 19:47:30 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 6:28 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, Jacob Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

    You ALWAYS come over the crest and can see what is in front of you.

    Unfortunately sometimes it is a giant truck passing another vehicle and headed straight for you in your lane.
    --scott

    Nothing like those giant trucks racing at high speed up long steep hills.

    LOL!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Pawlowski@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Thu Mar 3 23:44:00 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 8:41 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:36:46 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached >>>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to >>>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
     Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.

     No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.
     But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    More rpm = more wear.

    Mindlessly simplistic. In the real world, engines last longer
    doing lots of long trips rather than short ones around town.

    And the reality is that modern car engines hardly
    ever need replacing due to wear anymore.

    Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

    Or those like you not understanding how engines work.

    The one likely to downshift and cause high rpms are more likely to wear
    an engine faster. There are still rebuilders out there as there is a
    need. Certainly not like years ago, but I bet more than you think.

    Having done a couple of complete rebuilds, I have a pretty good idea how
    they work. My brother had 26 cars so we did a lot of work on them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Joyce@21:1/5 to Bob F on Thu Mar 3 22:54:28 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:49:46 -0800, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    The first vehicles I learned to drive in the early 1960's were all stick
    shift, and I was taught the rule listed above. I've never forgotten it.
    It was true then and it's true now.

    I still remember one summer when my friend and I (I was 12, he was 13)
    got hired to drive trucks and other implements on a neighboring farm,
    and my friend used to slip the clutch on a regular basis, prompting the
    farmer to yell, "The clutch has two positions! In or out! Stop slipping
    the damned clutch!" He never had to tell me that. :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Fri Mar 4 00:48:00 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 23:44, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 8:41 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:36:46 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a
    lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.
    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.

    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red
    lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.
    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    More rpm = more wear.

    Mindlessly simplistic. In the real world, engines last longer
    doing lots of long trips rather than short ones around town.

    And the reality is that modern car engines hardly
    ever need replacing due to wear anymore.

    Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

    Or those like you not understanding how engines work.

    The one likely to downshift and cause high rpms are more likely to wear
    an engine faster. There are still rebuilders out there as there is a
    need. Certainly not like years ago, but I bet more than you think.

    Having done a couple of complete rebuilds, I have a pretty good idea how
    they work. My brother had 26 cars so we did a lot of work on them.

    Plenty of rebuild shops; many folks, especially near me, drive older
    cars. It's still common to see 90's cars driving around in my town.
    About all of my cars are older than me. Of course, some of those
    rebuild shops also do custom work, racing, and work for restoring
    classic cars.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Fri Mar 4 00:51:08 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston >>>> TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving >>>>>> the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went
    briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and >>>>>> even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod >>>>> destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who installed >>>>> a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think you >>>> came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but regardless, >>>> I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars
    now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
    with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
    (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills.

    When you overheat those old drum brakes, which isn't hard to do, you
    might not be able to stop... especially if they get hot enough to
    vapor-lock the brake fluid near the wheels. When I drive that 60's car
    now, on a steep couple mile hill near my house, I put the 3 speed auto
    into second gear, rev-matching a bit before it downshifts. Fortunately,
    it holds a steady 40 MPH in 2nd gear, and I don't have to tap the brakes
    once on that hill.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to Paul in Houston TX on Fri Mar 4 00:45:37 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/3/2022 13:47, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    It doesn't matter; it still involves too high of an RPM, which can cause
    engine damage.

    I try not to habitually downshift for engine braking, but that depends
    on the car. If a car has a weak or failing braking system, I'm more
    likely to downshift, but not anywhere near where the red line would be.
    Weak clutch, and you'd better be more generous with the brakes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Xeno@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Fri Mar 4 17:19:58 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston >>>>> TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is
    driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went
    briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line.   For several seconds was at 5000 >>>>>>> and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod >>>>>> destroying the engine.  I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
     So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
     Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would
    think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
     This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3.  A rental with only 9000 miles on >>>>> it, so it must be new.   I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car.    mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd >>>>> gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
    his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to
    replace than engine and clutch.
     Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.

    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.

    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your  vehicle.

    That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch. If a
    driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to re-learn
    how to drive.

    If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather than
    keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is just
    stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better
    than over-reving.

    But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.


    --
    Xeno


    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Xeno@21:1/5 to micky on Fri Mar 4 17:26:57 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 4/3/2022 10:13 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston >>>>>> TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving >>>>>>>> the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 >>>>>>>> and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod >>>>>>> destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think >>>>>> you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on >>>>>> it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd >>>>>> gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his >>>>> lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace >>>>> than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this Citroen has 4-wheel disks.

    *All* brakes are energy converters hence all brakes can potentially
    overheat. Brakes, of any type, can only shed heat at a set rate. Exceed
    the rate of heat input that the brakes can accommodate and you will
    overheat any kind of brake system.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much
    less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of the
    car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    Change your driving habits!

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
    overheating even drum brakes.

    I repeat, change your driving habits.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.

    That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly
    and unexpectedly.

    Once again, change your driving habits. Better still, go take a
    defensive driving course. Not for your benefit but the benefit of others
    around you.

    --
    Xeno


    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Real Bev@21:1/5 to Michael Trew on Thu Mar 3 22:57:17 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars
    now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
    with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
    (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills.

    1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have
    known better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.

    Later on I drove a car with brake problems. I still pulse the brakes,
    mainly to make sure they still work before I NEED to use them. Some
    habits just don't die.

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    "A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person
    or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even
    possibly incurring losses." -- C.M.Cipolla

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Fri Mar 4 19:39:02 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 15:44:00 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 8:41 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:36:46 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached >>>>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to >>>>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.

    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red
    lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.
    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    More rpm = more wear.
    Mindlessly simplistic. In the real world, engines last longer
    doing lots of long trips rather than short ones around town.
    And the reality is that modern car engines hardly
    ever need replacing due to wear anymore.

    Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

    Or those like you not understanding how engines work.

    The one likely to downshift and cause highrpms are more likely to wear
    an engine faster.

    Nice theory. Pity about how few get their engine rebuilt anymore,

    There are still rebuilders out there as there is a need.

    Pity that you don't know that it is those who downshift.

    Certainly not like years ago, but I bet more than you think.

    I know that it isn't.

    Having done a couple of complete rebuilds, I have a pretty good idea how
    they work. My brother had 26 cars so we did a lot of work on them.

    But clearly do not have a clue about whether those who downshift
    get their engines rebuilt more than those who do not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Jim Joyce on Fri Mar 4 19:43:02 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 15:54:28 +1100, Jim Joyce <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:49:46 -0800, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
    than engine and clutch.

    The first vehicles I learned to drive in the early 1960's were all stick shift, and I was taught the rule listed above.

    Just because some fool claims something...

    I've never forgotten it.

    Do you still wear button up boots ?

    It was true then and it's true now.

    Bullshit it is. Hardly anyone needs to bet their engine rebuilt anymore.

    I still remember one summer when my friend and I (I was 12, he was 13)
    got hired to drive trucks and other implements on a neighboring farm,
    and my friend used to slip the clutch on a regular basis, prompting the farmer to yell, "The clutch has two positions! In or out! Stop slipping
    the damned clutch!" He never had to tell me that. :-)

    Irrelevant to what is being discussed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Xeno on Fri Mar 4 19:48:19 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in
    Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is
    driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 >>>>>>>> and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston >>>>>>> rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would
    think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles >>>>>> on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd >>>>>> gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
    his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to
    replace than engine and clutch.
    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.
    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.
    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your vehicle.
    That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch. If a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to re-learn
    how to drive.

    We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to descend steep hills.

    If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather than
    keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is just
    stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better
    than over-reving.
    But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Fri Mar 4 16:03:44 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> writes:
    On 3/3/2022 8:41 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:36:46 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached >>>>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to >>>>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
     Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes >>>>>> overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.

     No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining. >>
    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.
     But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    More rpm = more wear.

    Mindlessly simplistic. In the real world, engines last longer
    doing lots of long trips rather than short ones around town.

    And the reality is that modern car engines hardly
    ever need replacing due to wear anymore.

    Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

    Or those like you not understanding how engines work.

    The one likely to downshift and cause high rpms are more likely to wear
    an engine faster. There are still rebuilders out there as there is a
    need. Certainly not like years ago, but I bet more than you think.

    I used engine braking far more than the brakes on my 2000 Ford Ranger.
    150,000 miles on the clutch, two sets of tires and the only engine
    related problem was a failed alternator at about 67k miles. Best
    truck I ever had (transfered to brother-in-law and crushed by a
    tree during a derecho a couple years later, sadly).

    Used properly, and with a sane gear ratio, it works fine. My
    2016 Colorado (the only manual still being sold at the time) gear ratios
    aren't as good, and downshifting into second will rev higher
    than I like, but there are ways to ameliorate that as well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pierre Ghazarian@21:1/5 to micky on Fri Mar 4 19:26:18 2022
    Hi

    On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 19:39:32 +0100,
    micky wrote:

    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I�d say it�s the same or worse.

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    Engine braking is useful, however over-reving by abusing it, as noted
    by others, is dangerous for your engine and transmission. It�s called money-shifting for a reason.

    Regards,
    --
    P

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Mar 4 21:01:22 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:26:57 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 10:13 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston >>>>>>> TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving >>>>>>>>> the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 >>>>>>>>> and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod >>>>>>>> destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think >>>>>>> you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on >>>>>>> it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd >>>>>>> gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his >>>>>> lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace >>>>>> than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my >>>> brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this Citroen has
    4-wheel disks.

    *All* brakes are energy converters hence all brakes can potentially
    overheat. Brakes, of any type, can only shed heat at a set rate. Exceed
    the rate of heat input that the brakes can accommodate and you will
    overheat any kind of brake system.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much
    less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of the
    car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    Change your driving habits!

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
    overheating even drum brakes.

    I repeat, change your driving habits.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.

    That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly
    and unexpectedly.

    Once again, change your driving habits. Better still, go take a
    defensive driving course. Not for your benefit but the benefit of others >around you.

    You and Jacob can come with me the next time I make this trip, maybe in
    a few days, and then you'll have enough facts to maybe be in a position
    to tell me stuff like this.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Mar 4 21:06:50 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 00:45:37 -0500, Michael Trew <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 13:47, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    It doesn't matter; it still involves too high of an RPM, which can cause >engine damage.

    I try not to habitually downshift for engine braking, but that depends
    on the car. If a car has a weak or failing braking system, I'm more
    likely to downshift, but not anywhere near where the red line would be.
    Weak clutch, and you'd better be more generous with the brakes.

    The rentacar companies ought to give include a little primer on driving
    when they give you the car. It wouldn't only have to be 5 or 10
    sentence. The roads and the laws are a little different from the US.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to micky on Sat Mar 5 08:25:06 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 06:01:22 +1100, micky <[email protected]> wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:26:57 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 10:13 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in >>>>>>>> Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>> driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, >>>>>>>>>> for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>>> 5000
    and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston >>>>>>>>> rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>> installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would >>>>>>>> think
    you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than >>>>>>>> 3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached >>>>>>> his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to
    replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did >>>>> my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this Citroen
    has
    4-wheel disks.

    *All* brakes are energy converters hence all brakes can potentially
    overheat. Brakes, of any type, can only shed heat at a set rate. Exceed
    the rate of heat input that the brakes can accommodate and you will
    overheat any kind of brake system.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much
    less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of the
    car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    Change your driving habits!

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
    overheating even drum brakes.

    I repeat, change your driving habits.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.

    That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly
    and unexpectedly.

    Once again, change your driving habits. Better still, go take a
    defensive driving course. Not for your benefit but the benefit of others
    around you.

    You and Jacob can come with me the next time I make this trip, maybe in
    a few days, and then you'll have enough facts to maybe be in a position
    to tell me stuff like this.

    We don't need to. There are no steep descents that don't have
    a warning sign so you can change down before descending.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to micky on Fri Mar 4 19:10:33 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/4/2022 14:06, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 00:45:37 -0500, Michael Trew <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 13:47, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the >>>> wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly >>>> to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    It doesn't matter; it still involves too high of an RPM, which can cause
    engine damage.

    I try not to habitually downshift for engine braking, but that depends
    on the car. If a car has a weak or failing braking system, I'm more
    likely to downshift, but not anywhere near where the red line would be.
    Weak clutch, and you'd better be more generous with the brakes.

    The rentacar companies ought to give include a little primer on driving
    when they give you the car. It wouldn't only have to be 5 or 10
    sentence. The roads and the laws are a little different from the US.

    From which country? I live in the US, but all of my cars are old beaters.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Fri Mar 4 19:08:56 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/4/2022 1:57, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars
    now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
    with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
    (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills.

    1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have known better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.

    I don't think disc brakes were even an option until the late 60's, but
    perhaps someone else could be more certain.

    Out of curiosity, did your Olds have power or manual brakes? I owned a
    '56 Olds 88 with power brakes, but I never drove it (except onto/off of
    a trailer); the booster was gone, as well as other parts. Hopefully the
    next guy restored it as the car deserved. It had manual steering.

    Most of my older cars still have manual brakes. I currently have a '65
    Ford Galaxie with manual drum brakes around. I also have a '75 Dodge
    Dart with manual brakes, but it has manual discs in the front. The
    Galaxie has manual steering, and it's a bear to parallel park.

    Later on I drove a car with brake problems. I still pulse the brakes,
    mainly to make sure they still work before I NEED to use them. Some
    habits just don't die.

    I do the same thing, even in newer cars. That's a good habit to have,
    either way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Mar 6 00:12:09 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 05 Mar 2022 08:25:06 +1100, "Jacob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 06:01:22 +1100, micky <[email protected]> wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:26:57 +1100, Xeno
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 10:13 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in >>>>>>>>> Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>>> driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, >>>>>>>>>>> for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>>>> 5000
    and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston >>>>>>>>>> rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>>> installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would >>>>>>>>> think
    you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but >>>>>>>>> regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than >>>>>>>>> 3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached >>>>>>>> his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to >>>>>>>> replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes >>>>>>> overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did >>>>>> my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this Citroen
    has
    4-wheel disks.

    *All* brakes are energy converters hence all brakes can potentially
    overheat. Brakes, of any type, can only shed heat at a set rate. Exceed
    the rate of heat input that the brakes can accommodate and you will
    overheat any kind of brake system.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much
    less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of the >>>> car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    Change your driving habits!

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
    overheating even drum brakes.

    I repeat, change your driving habits.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line. >>>>
    That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly
    and unexpectedly.

    Once again, change your driving habits. Better still, go take a
    defensive driving course. Not for your benefit but the benefit of others >>> around you.

    You and Jacob can come with me the next time I make this trip, maybe in
    a few days, and then you'll have enough facts to maybe be in a position
    to tell me stuff like this.

    We don't need to. There are no steep descents that don't have
    a warning sign so you can change down before descending.

    Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

    Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Mar 6 00:20:24 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:08:56 -0500, Michael Trew <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/4/2022 1:57, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my >>>> brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars
    now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
    with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
    (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills.

    1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have known
    better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.

    I don't think disc brakes were even an option until the late 60's, but >perhaps someone else could be more certain.

    Out of curiosity, did your Olds have power or manual brakes? I owned a

    I had a '50 Olds also. I don't think they came with power brakes. But
    it did stop okay. They did have the possibility of Back-up lights. I
    found some at a junk yard and installed them. And they did have the possibility of an automatic headlight dimmer, based on the lights from
    the on-coming car. I only read about that.

    The new or nearly new features of the '50 were a high-compression (8.5
    to 1, iirc) production v-8 engine, and an automatic transmission.

    '56 Olds 88 with power brakes, but I never drove it (except onto/off of
    a trailer); the booster was gone, as well as other parts. Hopefully the
    next guy restored it as the car deserved. It had manual steering.

    Most of my older cars still have manual brakes. I currently have a '65

    This new Citroen has brakes so good, I've knocked the phone once and
    the laptop twic off the front seat. I'm glad I put a solid state drive
    in. Even when stopped, I can imagine one could damage a mechanical
    drive. I think I've gotten used to the brakes and don't do that sort
    of thing anymore.

    Ford Galaxie with manual drum brakes around. I also have a '75 Dodge
    Dart with manual brakes, but it has manual discs in the front. The
    Galaxie has manual steering, and it's a bear to parallel park.

    Later on I drove a car with brake problems. I still pulse the brakes,
    mainly to make sure they still work before I NEED to use them. Some
    habits just don't die.

    I do the same thing, even in newer cars. That's a good habit to have,
    either way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Mar 6 10:21:19 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 09:12:09 +1100, micky <[email protected]> wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 05 Mar 2022 08:25:06 +1100, "Jacob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 06:01:22 +1100, micky <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:26:57 +1100, Xeno
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 10:13 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones" >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in >>>>>>>>>> Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>>>> driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, >>>>>>>>>>>> for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>>>>> 5000
    and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a >>>>>>>>>>> piston
    rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>>>> installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would >>>>>>>>>> think
    you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but >>>>>>>>>> regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than >>>>>>>>>> 3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached
    his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to >>>>>>>>> replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes >>>>>>>> overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- >>>>>>> did
    my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned. >>>>>
    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this Citroen >>>>> has
    4-wheel disks.

    *All* brakes are energy converters hence all brakes can potentially
    overheat. Brakes, of any type, can only shed heat at a set rate.
    Exceed
    the rate of heat input that the brakes can accommodate and you will
    overheat any kind of brake system.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much >>>>> less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of
    the
    car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    Change your driving habits!

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
    overheating even drum brakes.

    I repeat, change your driving habits.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red
    line.

    That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly >>>>> and unexpectedly.

    Once again, change your driving habits. Better still, go take a
    defensive driving course. Not for your benefit but the benefit of
    others
    around you.

    You and Jacob can come with me the next time I make this trip, maybe in
    a few days, and then you'll have enough facts to maybe be in a position
    to tell me stuff like this.

    We don't need to. There are no steep descents that don't have
    a warning sign so you can change down before descending.

    Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

    In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
    so many languages.

    Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

    Easy to google steep descent signs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Sun Mar 6 11:52:03 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 11:32:44 +1100, Scott Dorsey <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, Jacob Jones <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

    In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
    so many languages.

    Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

    Easy to google steep descent signs.

    In the US you can tell from the red fluid all over the road and the
    pieces
    of bell housings and torque converters scattered along the shoulder.

    But he is currently in europe.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Sun Mar 6 00:57:32 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In article <[email protected]>, Jacob Jones <[email protected]> wrote: >On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 11:32:44 +1100, Scott Dorsey <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, Jacob Jones <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

    In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
    so many languages.

    Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

    Easy to google steep descent signs.

    In the US you can tell from the red fluid all over the road and the
    pieces
    of bell housings and torque converters scattered along the shoulder.

    But he is currently in europe.

    He went all the way to Europe just so he could destroy a Citroen? Sheesh. --scott


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Sun Mar 6 12:08:30 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 11:57:32 +1100, Scott Dorsey <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, Jacob Jones <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 11:32:44 +1100, Scott Dorsey <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, Jacob Jones <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

    In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
    so many languages.

    Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

    Easy to google steep descent signs.

    In the US you can tell from the red fluid all over the road and the
    pieces
    of bell housings and torque converters scattered along the shoulder.

    But he is currently in europe.

    He went all the way to Europe just so he could destroy a Citroen?

    No, he went there for other reasons and hasn't yet managed to destroy it,

    Sheesh.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Sun Mar 6 00:32:44 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In article <[email protected]>, Jacob Jones <[email protected]> wrote: >> Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

    In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
    so many languages.

    Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

    Easy to google steep descent signs.

    In the US you can tell from the red fluid all over the road and the pieces
    of bell housings and torque converters scattered along the shoulder.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Real Bev@21:1/5 to micky on Sat Mar 5 21:51:10 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 03/05/2022 02:20 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:08:56 -0500, Michael Trew <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 3/4/2022 1:57, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my >>>>> brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars >>>> now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
    with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
    (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills. >>>
    1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have known
    better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.

    I don't think disc brakes were even an option until the late 60's, but >>perhaps someone else could be more certain.

    Out of curiosity, did your Olds have power or manual brakes? I owned a

    I had a '50 Olds also. I don't think they came with power brakes. But
    it did stop okay. They did have the possibility of Back-up lights. I
    found some at a junk yard and installed them. And they did have the possibility of an automatic headlight dimmer, based on the lights from
    the on-coming car. I only read about that.

    Mine certainly had no power brakes. Drums all the way around. No power steering either. 8-cylinder engine which I once got up to 100 mph on
    the long easy downhill pointing at Huntington (I think) Beach. It felt squirrelly, as I recall, and I backed off immediately. (100 mph in a
    Corolla is perfectly fine.) The car ultimately developed a lot of
    problems which I had workarounds for, but I ultimately sold it to a
    "fine Cherman VW mechanic" who was sure he could fix it. A friend saw
    it at the local wrecking yard a few weeks later.

    My grandma never learned to drive, but she scrubbed the whitewalls until
    they looked brand new. She also cleaned the chrome with steel wool.
    You guys remember chrome, right? Back when bumpers didn't need to have
    their broken plastic covers replaced at $hundreds/each.

    The new or nearly new features of the '50 were a high-compression (8.5
    to 1, iirc) production v-8 engine, and an automatic transmission.

    I learned to drive stick on a friend's 1938 (maybe) Ford. Looked like a
    Brit taxicab. Later on I had my own 50 Chevy with an add-on floor stick
    shift, apparently installed and driven by a chimp. That's the one whose
    freeze plugs I replaced. Sold that one to a sailor on leave for the $50
    I paid for it.

    Later on I drove a car with brake problems. I still pulse the brakes,
    mainly to make sure they still work before I NEED to use them. Some
    habits just don't die.

    I do the same thing, even in newer cars. That's a good habit to have, >>either way.

    At the very least it's a warning in advance of need to the guy behind you.


    --
    Cheers, Bev
    "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your
    informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
    - Harlan Ellison

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Mar 6 20:00:08 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 06 Mar 2022 10:21:19 +1100, "Jacob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 09:12:09 +1100, micky <[email protected]> wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 05 Mar 2022 08:25:06 +1100, "Jacob Jones"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 06:01:22 +1100, micky <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:26:57 +1100, Xeno
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 10:13 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones" >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in >>>>>>>>>>> Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>>>>> driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, >>>>>>>>>>>>> for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>>>>>> 5000
    and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a >>>>>>>>>>>> piston
    rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>>>>> installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would >>>>>>>>>>> think
    you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but >>>>>>>>>>> regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than >>>>>>>>>>> 3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached
    his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to >>>>>>>>>> replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes >>>>>>>>> overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- >>>>>>>> did
    my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned. >>>>>>
    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this Citroen >>>>>> has
    4-wheel disks.

    *All* brakes are energy converters hence all brakes can potentially
    overheat. Brakes, of any type, can only shed heat at a set rate.
    Exceed
    the rate of heat input that the brakes can accommodate and you will
    overheat any kind of brake system.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much >>>>>> less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of >>>>>> the
    car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    Change your driving habits!

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
    overheating even drum brakes.

    I repeat, change your driving habits.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red
    line.

    That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly >>>>>> and unexpectedly.

    Once again, change your driving habits. Better still, go take a
    defensive driving course. Not for your benefit but the benefit of
    others
    around you.

    You and Jacob can come with me the next time I make this trip, maybe in >>>> a few days, and then you'll have enough facts to maybe be in a position >>>> to tell me stuff like this.

    We don't need to. There are no steep descents that don't have
    a warning sign so you can change down before descending.

    Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

    In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
    so many languages.

    Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

    Easy to google steep descent signs.

    There were no signs. We don't need no stinkin' signs, or maybe we do
    but we don't have them where I go.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob F@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Mar 6 10:36:14 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/6/2022 10:00 AM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 06 Mar 2022 10:21:19 +1100, "Jacob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 09:12:09 +1100, micky <[email protected]> wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 05 Mar 2022 08:25:06 +1100, "Jacob Jones"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 06:01:22 +1100, micky <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:26:57 +1100, Xeno
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 10:13 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones" >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in >>>>>>>>>>>> Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5000
    and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a >>>>>>>>>>>>> piston
    rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>>>>>> installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would >>>>>>>>>>>> think
    you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!! >>>>>>>>>>>> This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but >>>>>>>>>>>> regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than >>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached
    his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to >>>>>>>>>>> replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes >>>>>>>>>> overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- >>>>>>>>> did
    my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned. >>>>>>>
    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this Citroen >>>>>>> has
    4-wheel disks.

    *All* brakes are energy converters hence all brakes can potentially >>>>>> overheat. Brakes, of any type, can only shed heat at a set rate.
    Exceed
    the rate of heat input that the brakes can accommodate and you will >>>>>> overheat any kind of brake system.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much >>>>>>> less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of >>>>>>> the
    car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    Change your driving habits!

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of >>>>>>> overheating even drum brakes.

    I repeat, change your driving habits.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red >>>>>>>> line.

    That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly >>>>>>> and unexpectedly.

    Once again, change your driving habits. Better still, go take a
    defensive driving course. Not for your benefit but the benefit of
    others
    around you.

    You and Jacob can come with me the next time I make this trip, maybe in >>>>> a few days, and then you'll have enough facts to maybe be in a position >>>>> to tell me stuff like this.

    We don't need to. There are no steep descents that don't have
    a warning sign so you can change down before descending.

    Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

    In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
    so many languages.

    Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

    Easy to google steep descent signs.

    There were no signs. We don't need no stinkin' signs, or maybe we do
    but we don't have them where I go.

    And you are apparently incapable of looking at the hill as you crest
    down it and determining at that moment that you need to downshift then
    to avoid going down the hill too fast, or that you need to slow down a
    bit to get to an even lower gear to maintain speed safely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to micky on Mon Mar 7 05:43:09 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 05:00:08 +1100, micky <[email protected]> wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 06 Mar 2022 10:21:19 +1100, "Jacob Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 09:12:09 +1100, micky <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 05 Mar 2022 08:25:06 +1100, "Jacob Jones"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 06:01:22 +1100, micky <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:26:57 +1100, Xeno
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 10:13 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob
    Jones"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev
    <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 03/03/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in >>>>>>>>>>>> Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> driving
    the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> today,
    for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine >>>>>>>>>>>>>> went
    briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5000
    and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a >>>>>>>>>>>>> piston
    rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>>>>>> installed
    a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I >>>>>>>>>>>> would
    think
    you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!! >>>>>>>>>>>> This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but >>>>>>>>>>>> regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower >>>>>>>>>>>> than
    3rd
    gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached
    his
    lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to >>>>>>>>>>> replace
    than engine and clutch.

    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes >>>>>>>>>> overheat
    and you can't stop.

    If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- >>>>>>>>> did
    my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson
    learned.

    I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this
    Citroen
    has
    4-wheel disks.

    *All* brakes are energy converters hence all brakes can potentially >>>>>> overheat. Brakes, of any type, can only shed heat at a set rate.
    Exceed
    the rate of heat input that the brakes can accommodate and you will >>>>>> overheat any kind of brake system.

    Which is presumably why micky changed down.

    No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes
    much
    less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of >>>>>>> the
    car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

    Change your driving habits!

    I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of >>>>>>> overheating even drum brakes.

    I repeat, change your driving habits.

    All he needs to do
    is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red >>>>>>>> line.

    That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up
    quickly
    and unexpectedly.

    Once again, change your driving habits. Better still, go take a
    defensive driving course. Not for your benefit but the benefit of
    others
    around you.

    You and Jacob can come with me the next time I make this trip, maybe >>>>> in
    a few days, and then you'll have enough facts to maybe be in a
    position
    to tell me stuff like this.

    We don't need to. There are no steep descents that don't have
    a warning sign so you can change down before descending.

    Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

    In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
    so many languages.

    Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

    Easy to google steep descent signs.

    There were no signs.

    So you didn't need to change down. The brakes would have been fine.

    But no harm in changing down at the crest if you want to, particularly
    with a car you aren't familiar with and don't know how likely it is for
    the brakes to overheat.

    We don't need no stinkin' signs, or maybe we do
    but we don't have them where I go.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Mar 6 22:50:05 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:51:10 -0800, The Real Bev <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 03/05/2022 02:20 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:08:56 -0500, Michael Trew
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 3/4/2022 1:57, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my >>>>>> brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars >>>>> now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
    with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
    (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills. >>>>
    1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have known >>>> better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.

    I don't think disc brakes were even an option until the late 60's, but >>>perhaps someone else could be more certain.

    Out of curiosity, did your Olds have power or manual brakes? I owned a

    I had a '50 Olds also. I don't think they came with power brakes. But
    it did stop okay. They did have the possibility of Back-up lights. I
    found some at a junk yard and installed them. And they did have the
    possibility of an automatic headlight dimmer, based on the lights from
    the on-coming car. I only read about that.

    Mine certainly had no power brakes. Drums all the way around. No power >steering either. 8-cylinder engine which I once got up to 100 mph on
    the long easy downhill pointing at Huntington (I think) Beach. It felt

    I'm pretty sure I've told this before, but what the heck. I got mine
    up to 110 one time, and it was flat. No help from downhill. It was
    half-way across Michigan between Detroit and Gary Indiana.

    squirrelly, as I recall, and I backed off immediately. (100 mph in a

    It felt fine but I figure the speedometer went up to 110 so that's all I
    could do. When I got back to Chicago, my friend Rich Loft, who died of leukemia a few years later when he was in his 20's, said "Did you hide
    it?" I didn't know about that, but I guess I should have gone beyond
    the numbers and the needle might have gone behind the faceplate, or if
    it couldn't do that, I still could have gone higher than the higest
    number.

    I had two r iders, it was just after dawn, no other traffic to hit, but
    I could have had a blowout and I had no business driving so fast with
    riders, esppecially when hey were sleeping and couldn't consent.

    When I got back to Chicaog, the first thing I did was open my hood to
    admire the engine, and.... there were bubbles coming out from under one cylinder head. Darn, I thouught, and I quickly shut the hood and didn't
    open it again for a couple weeks. By then the bubbling had stopped.

    Later I got a compression tester and like they say, two adjacent
    cylinders had low compression. But the car ran fine. And I think it
    leaked at cranking speed, but when running at 20 to 85 mph, it also
    leaked but not fast enough to make a difference in how it ran.

    I remember now, that even after the bubbles, I drove from Chicago to
    Allentown Pa. and back at 85mph much of the way.

    The car was like a tank, Undeneath the frame was a rectangle with an
    X inside of it.

    One time at work at a construction site, when it was time for lunch, I
    thought I'd drive over a hill of loose dirt somone had made. I gave it
    a running start but I didn't get over the hill. The car stopped and
    when I got out, all 4 wheels were off the gound. so... it wouldn't
    move. I had to get the guy with the cherry picker to take the car off
    the hill and put it bak on the ground. But because of that great
    frame, there was no damage. 1

    Corolla is perfectly fine.) The car ultimately developed a lot of
    problems which I had workarounds for, but I ultimately sold it to a
    "fine Cherman VW mechanic" who was sure he could fix it. A friend saw
    it at the local wrecking yard a few weeks later.

    Mine still worked fine, but my brother had gone to Viet Nam and lent,
    then gave me his '65 Catalina convertiable. And as much as I like the
    Olds, I like the Pontiac better. So I gave or sold it for $50 to a guy
    I'd met because he had a car like mine. He had two, and after he had
    mine, he had 3. I hated to promote his nerdish hobby (details on
    request), but it needed a home.

    **He bought a Ford LTD? convertibld when he got back from Nam (in one
    piece).

    My grandma never learned to drive, but she scrubbed the whitewalls until
    they looked brand new. She also cleaned the chrome with steel wool.
    You guys remember chrome, right? Back when bumpers didn't need to have
    their broken plastic covers replaced at $hundreds/each.

    I wish I had a gramma like that. I remember chrome bumpers. You could
    sit on them.

    The new or nearly new features of the '50 were a high-compression (8.5
    to 1, iirc) production v-8 engine, and an automatic transmission.

    I learned to drive stick on a friend's 1938 (maybe) Ford. Looked like a
    Brit taxicab. Later on I had my own 50 Chevy with an add-on floor stick >shift, apparently installed and driven by a chimp. That's the one whose >freeze plugs I replaced. Sold that one to a sailor on leave for the $50
    I paid for it.

    I had read how to drive a stick and that was most of what I needed t o
    know. Then 4 of us were going on a trip and the owner of the 60n?
    Corvair wanted to leave earlier than 3 of us so he took two of u s out
    for an hour and taught us to drive a stick. From Chicago to Pittsburgh
    you only have to shift 4 or 5 cycles up and down, and I did the driving.

    We went to Pittsburgh, NYC (where we watchd the '68 Deocratic Convention
    on TV, then Boston to see Doug's girlfriend, then some small city in NYS
    where my cousin was being married, the Rochestor and Niagara Falls, back
    to Pittsburgh and Chicago. There had been a bus and taxi strike in
    Chicago and I'd volunteered to use my car to drive delegates from the
    hotels to the Stockyardss and back, and I'm sorry I didn't get to do
    that, but the trip seemed more important. (The Republicans had the
    loan of new cars, but the dems were depending on volunteers like me, but
    more reliable than me.

    Later on I drove a car with brake problems. I still pulse the brakes,
    mainly to make sure they still work before I NEED to use them. Some
    habits just don't die.

    I do the same thing, even in newer cars. That's a good habit to have, >>>either way.

    At the very least it's a warning in advance of need to the guy behind you.

    True.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Xeno@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Mon Mar 7 13:43:49 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in
    Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is
    driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for >>>>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line.   For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>> 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston >>>>>>>> rod
    destroying the engine.  I gave it away to a needy person who
    installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
     So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
     Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would
    think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
     This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3.  A rental with only 9000
    miles on
    it, so it must be new.   I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car.    mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than >>>>>>> 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached >>>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to >>>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
     Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.
     No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining. >>>
    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.
     But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your  vehicle.
     That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch. If
    a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to
    re-learn how to drive.

    We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to descend
    steep hills.

    No, *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
    service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
    hill, that's what the service brakes are for. What you can, and should,
    do is use engine braking to maintain a steady speed down a steep hill.
    That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat and
    that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided. If
    needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional application of
    the service brakes is advised but no more than is required to maintain a
    steady speed. That way you neither damage your engine or needlessly
    overheat the service brakes.

    If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather than
    keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is just
    stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better
    than over-reving.
     But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.



    --
    Xeno


    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Sun Mar 6 22:58:33 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/6/2022 0:51, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 03/05/2022 02:20 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:08:56 -0500, Michael Trew
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 3/4/2022 1:57, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road --
    did my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

    That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars >>>>> now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
    with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
    (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep
    hills.

    1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have known >>>> better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.

    I don't think disc brakes were even an option until the late 60's, but
    perhaps someone else could be more certain.

    Out of curiosity, did your Olds have power or manual brakes? I owned a

    I had a '50 Olds also. I don't think they came with power brakes. But
    it did stop okay. They did have the possibility of Back-up lights. I
    found some at a junk yard and installed them. And they did have the
    possibility of an automatic headlight dimmer, based on the lights from
    the on-coming car. I only read about that.

    Mine certainly had no power brakes. Drums all the way around. No power steering either. 8-cylinder engine which I once got up to 100 mph on the
    long easy downhill pointing at Huntington (I think) Beach. It felt squirrelly, as I recall, and I backed off immediately. (100 mph in a
    Corolla is perfectly fine.) The car ultimately developed a lot of
    problems which I had workarounds for, but I ultimately sold it to a
    "fine Cherman VW mechanic" who was sure he could fix it. A friend saw it
    at the local wrecking yard a few weeks later.

    My grandma never learned to drive, but she scrubbed the whitewalls until
    they looked brand new. She also cleaned the chrome with steel wool. You
    guys remember chrome, right? Back when bumpers didn't need to have their broken plastic covers replaced at $hundreds/each.

    The vehicles that I have with chrome bumpers have rust scattered on
    parts of the chrome. I'll have to see if steel wool cleans that up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Xeno on Mon Mar 7 14:58:11 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:43:49 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in >>>>>>>> Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>> driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, >>>>>>>>>> for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went >>>>>>>>>> briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>>> 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston >>>>>>>>> rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>> installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would >>>>>>>> think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000
    miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
    regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than >>>>>>>> 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached >>>>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to >>>>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
    overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.
    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red
    lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.
    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your vehicle.
    That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch. If
    a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to
    re-learn how to drive.

    We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to descend
    steep hills.

    No,

    Fraid so.

    *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
    service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
    hill, that's what the service brakes are for.

    Wrong with a long steep descent.

    What you can, and should, do is use engine brakingto maintain a steady speed down a steep hill.

    Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.

    That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat

    What I said long ago.

    and that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.

    Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent goes for.

    If needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional application
    of the service brakes is advised but no more than is required to
    maintain a steady speed.

    No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

    That way you neither damage your engine

    You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
    just don't exceed the redline.

    or needlessly overheat the service brakes.

    What I said long ago.

    If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather than
    keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is just >>>>> stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better
    than over-reving.

    But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Mar 6 23:02:27 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/6/2022 15:50, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:51:10 -0800, The Real Bev <[email protected]> wrote:

    The car ultimately developed a lot of
    problems which I had workarounds for, but I ultimately sold it to a
    "fine Cherman VW mechanic" who was sure he could fix it. A friend saw
    it at the local wrecking yard a few weeks later.

    Mine still worked fine, but my brother had gone to Viet Nam and lent,
    then gave me his '65 Catalina convertiable. And as much as I like the
    Olds, I like the Pontiac better. So I gave or sold it for $50 to a guy
    I'd met because he had a car like mine. He had two, and after he had
    mine, he had 3. I hated to promote his nerdish hobby (details on
    request), but it needed a home.

    OK, I'm curious about the "nerdish hobby" now.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Xeno on Mon Mar 7 16:07:20 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:56:35 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 7/3/2022 2:58 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:43:49 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in >>>>>>>>>> Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>>>> driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and >>>>>>>>>>>> today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine >>>>>>>>>>>> went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>>>>> 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a >>>>>>>>>>> piston rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>>>> installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would >>>>>>>>>> think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
    This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but >>>>>>>>>> regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than >>>>>>>>>> 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a >>>>>>>>> lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.
    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes >>>>>>>> overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.
    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red
    lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine. >>>>>> But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your
    vehicle.
    That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch.
    If a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to >>>>> re-learn how to drive.

    We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to descend
    steep hills.

    No,
    Fraid so.

    *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
    service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
    hill, that's what the service brakes are for.

    Wrong with a long steep descent.

    You slow down *before* you begin your descent.

    What I said long ago.

    Once into the descent at an *appropriate speed*, you only use the
    service brakes to maintain the rate of descent, the engine braking
    taking care of the rest.

    You have that backwards.

    It's obvious you have never driven trucks.

    There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.

    And we aren't discussing trucks, we are discussing a medium sized SUV.

    What you can, and should, do is use engine brakingto maintain a
    steady speed down a steep hill.

    Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.

    Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.

    Or change down initially and don't need the brakes if it is a long steep descent.

    That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat
    What I said long ago.

    and that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.

    Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent
    goes for.

    Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the descent;how
    you manage your speed, both when entering and during the descent.

    But you don't get brake fade with a modern car like that unless it is a
    long steep descent.

    If needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
    application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
    required to maintain a steady speed.

    No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

    Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or,for that matter, any
    heavy vehicle.

    Then you need new glasses bad and that is irrelevant to
    your silly line about a constant speed. Only a fool like you
    would maintain a constant speed in a truck or heavy vehicle,
    at the speed it has to do the worst hairpin bend at and there
    is no way to know what speed that will be in advance anyway.

    That way you neither damage your engine

    You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
    just don't exceed the redline.

    or needlessly overheat the service brakes.

    What I said long ago.

    If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather
    than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills >>>>>>> is just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway,
    definitely better than over-reving.

    But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Xeno@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Mon Mar 7 15:56:35 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 7/3/2022 2:58 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:43:49 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>
    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in >>>>>>>>> Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>>> driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and
    today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine >>>>>>>>>>> went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line.   For several seconds was at >>>>>>>>>>> 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a
    piston rod
    destroying the engine.  I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>>> installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
     So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
     Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would >>>>>>>>> think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
     This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3.  A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new.   I think I bought the insurance, but >>>>>>>>> regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car.    mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than >>>>>>>>> 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a >>>>>>>> lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.
     Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes >>>>>>> overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.
     No he was not when you change down before there will be any red
    lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine. >>>>>  But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your  vehicle. >>>>>  That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

    So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch.
    If a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to
    re-learn how to drive.

     We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to descend
    steep hills.

    No,

    Fraid so.

    *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
    service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
    hill, that's what the service brakes are for.

    Wrong with a long steep descent.

    You slow down *before* you begin your descent. Once into the descent at
    an *appropriate speed*, you only use the service brakes to maintain the
    rate of descent, the engine braking taking care of the rest. It's
    obvious you have never driven trucks.

    What you can, and should,  do is use engine  brakingto maintain a
    steady speed down a steep hill.

    Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.

    Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.

    That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat

    What I said long ago.

    and  that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.

    Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent goes for.

    Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the descent; how
    you manage your speed, both when entering and during the descent.

    If  needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
    application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
    required to maintain a steady speed.

    No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

    Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or, for that matter, any
    heavy vehicle.

    That way you neither damage your engine

    You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
    just don't exceed the redline.

    or needlessly  overheat the service brakes.

    What I said long ago.

    If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather
    than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills
    is just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway,
    definitely better than over-reving.

     But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.


    --
    Xeno


    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Xeno@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Mon Mar 7 18:59:30 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 7/3/2022 4:07 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:56:35 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 7/3/2022 2:58 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:43:49 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul >>>>>>>>>>> in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>>>>> driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine >>>>>>>>>>>>> went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line.   For several seconds was >>>>>>>>>>>>> at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a >>>>>>>>>>>> piston rod
    destroying the engine.  I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>>>>> installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
     So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
     Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I >>>>>>>>>>> would think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
     This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3.  A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new.   I think I bought the insurance, but >>>>>>>>>>> regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car.    mAYBE I shouldnt go lower >>>>>>>>>>> than 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a >>>>>>>>>> lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.
     Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the
    brakes overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.
     No he was not when you change down before there will be any red >>>>>>> lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine. >>>>>>>  But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your
    vehicle.
     That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear. >>>>>>
    So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and
    clutch. If a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe
    it's time to re-learn how to drive.

     We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to
    descend steep hills.

    No,
     Fraid so.

    *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
    service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
    hill, that's what the service brakes are for.

     Wrong with a long steep descent.

    You slow down *before* you begin your descent.

    What I said long ago.

    Once into the descent at an *appropriate speed*, you only use the
    service brakes to maintain the rate of descent, the engine braking
    taking care of the rest.

    You have that backwards.

    You don't appear to have it at all.

    It's  obvious you have never driven trucks.

    There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.

    And we aren't discussing trucks, we are discussing a medium sized SUV.

    Techniques are the same, just way more critical with a fully loaded truck.

    What you can, and should,  do is use engine  brakingto maintain a
    steady speed down a steep hill.

     Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.

    Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.

    Or change down initially and don't need the brakes if it is a long steep descent.

    You appear to be somewhat clueless.

    That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat
     What I said long ago.

    and  that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.

     Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent
    goes  for.

    Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the
    descent;how  you manage your speed, both when entering and during the
    descent.

    But you don't get brake fade with a modern car like that unless it is a
    long steep descent.

    Only one thing I can say in response to that - BULLSHIT!

    If  needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
    application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
    required to maintain a steady speed.

     No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

    Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or,for that matter, any
    heavy vehicle.

    Then you need new glasses bad and that is irrelevant to
    your silly line about a constant speed. Only a fool like you
    would maintain a constant speed in a truck or heavy vehicle,
    at the speed it has to do the worst hairpin bend at and there
    is no way to know what speed that will be in advance anyway.

    You are just trying to confuse the situation.

    That way you neither damage your engine

     You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
    just don't exceed the redline.

    or needlessly  overheat the service brakes.

     What I said long ago.

    If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather >>>>>>>> than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down
    hills is just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, >>>>>>>> definitely better than over-reving.

     But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.


    --
    Xeno


    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jacob Jones@21:1/5 to Xeno on Mon Mar 7 19:59:05 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 18:59:30 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 7/3/2022 4:07 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:56:35 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 7/3/2022 2:58 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:43:49 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul >>>>>>>>>>>> in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine >>>>>>>>>>>>>> went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a >>>>>>>>>>>>> piston rod
    destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who >>>>>>>>>>>>> installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
    So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
    Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I >>>>>>>>>>>> would think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!! >>>>>>>>>>>> This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 >>>>>>>>>>>> miles on
    it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but >>>>>>>>>>>> regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower >>>>>>>>>>>> than 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
    approached his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a >>>>>>>>>>> lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.
    Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the >>>>>>>>>> brakes overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.
    No he was not when you change down before there will be any red >>>>>>>> lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your
    engine.
    But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your
    vehicle.
    That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear. >>>>>>>
    So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and
    clutch. If a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe
    it's time to re-learn how to drive.

    We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to
    descend steep hills.

    No,
    Fraid so.

    *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
    service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
    hill, that's what the service brakes are for.

    Wrong with a long steep descent.

    You slow down *before* you begin your descent.
    What I said long ago.

    Once into the descent at an *appropriate speed*, you only use the
    service brakes to maintain the rate of descent, the engine braking
    taking care of the rest.

    You have that backwards.

    You don't appear to have it at all.

    You are pathetic.

    It's obvious you have never driven trucks.

    There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.

    And we aren't discussing trucks, we are discussing a medium sized SUV.

    Techniques are the same,

    Nope.

    just way more critical with a fully loaded truck.

    They aren't critical on a descent which isn't signed
    as a steep descent with a modern medium SUV.

    What you can, and should, do is use engine brakingto maintain a
    steady speed down a steep hill.

    Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.

    Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.

    Or change down initially and don't need the brakes if it is a long
    steep descent.

    You appear to be somewhat clueless.

    You don't have a fucking clue.

    That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat

    What I said long ago.

    and that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be
    avoided.

    Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent
    goes for.

    Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the
    descent;how you manage your speed, both when entering and during the
    descent.

    But you don't get brake fade with a modern car like that unless it is
    a long steep descent.

    Only one thing I can say in response to that - BULLSHIT!

    You are pathetic.

    If needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
    application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
    required to maintain a steady speed.

    No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

    Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or,for that matter, any
    heavy vehicle.

    Then you need new glasses bad and that is irrelevant to
    your silly line about a constant speed. Only a fool like you
    would maintain a constant speed in a truck or heavy vehicle,
    at the speed it has to do the worst hairpin bend at and there
    is no way to know what speed that will be in advance anyway.

    You are just trying to confuse the situation.

    You have never had a fucking clue.

    That way you neither damage your engine

    You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
    just don't exceed the redline.

    or needlessly overheat the service brakes.

    What I said long ago.

    If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather >>>>>>>>> than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down
    hills is just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, >>>>>>>>> definitely better than over-reving.

    But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Michael Trew on Mon Mar 7 08:07:18 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/6/2022 9:58 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/6/2022 0:51, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 03/05/2022 02:20 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:08:56 -0500,
    Michael Trew
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 3/4/2022 1:57, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:

    Only once -- the very first time I drove down a
    mountain road --
    did my
    brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted.
    Lesson learned.

    That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc
    brakes; many cars
    now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a
    car (recently)
    with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why
    people
    (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the
    brakes on steep
    hills.

    1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really
    should have known
    better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I
    was lucky.

    I don't think disc brakes were even an option until the
    late 60's, but
    perhaps someone else could be more certain.

    Out of curiosity, did your Olds have power or manual
    brakes? I owned a

    I had a '50 Olds also. I don't think they came with power
    brakes. But
    it did stop okay. They did have the possibility of
    Back-up lights. I
    found some at a junk yard and installed them. And they
    did have the
    possibility of an automatic headlight dimmer, based on
    the lights from
    the on-coming car. I only read about that.

    Mine certainly had no power brakes. Drums all the way
    around. No power
    steering either. 8-cylinder engine which I once got up to
    100 mph on the
    long easy downhill pointing at Huntington (I think) Beach.
    It felt
    squirrelly, as I recall, and I backed off immediately.
    (100 mph in a
    Corolla is perfectly fine.) The car ultimately developed a
    lot of
    problems which I had workarounds for, but I ultimately
    sold it to a
    "fine Cherman VW mechanic" who was sure he could fix it. A
    friend saw it
    at the local wrecking yard a few weeks later.

    My grandma never learned to drive, but she scrubbed the
    whitewalls until
    they looked brand new. She also cleaned the chrome with
    steel wool. You
    guys remember chrome, right? Back when bumpers didn't need
    to have their
    broken plastic covers replaced at $hundreds/each.

    The vehicles that I have with chrome bumpers have rust
    scattered on parts of the chrome. I'll have to see if steel
    wool cleans that up.

    For surface discoloration use a chrome polish. Steel wool
    will leave micro scratches and hence rust faster.

    Where the chrome is broken or blistered, sand back to clean
    metal, acid wash, primer and chrome spray paint (I assume
    you don't want to have them stripped polished and re plated)

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    <www.yellowjersey.org/>
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Tue Mar 8 01:44:46 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/7/2022 9:07, AMuzi wrote:
    On 3/6/2022 9:58 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/6/2022 0:51, The Real Bev wrote:

    My grandma never learned to drive, but she scrubbed the
    whitewalls until
    they looked brand new. She also cleaned the chrome with
    steel wool. You
    guys remember chrome, right? Back when bumpers didn't need
    to have their
    broken plastic covers replaced at $hundreds/each.

    The vehicles that I have with chrome bumpers have rust
    scattered on parts of the chrome. I'll have to see if steel
    wool cleans that up.

    For surface discoloration use a chrome polish. Steel wool will leave
    micro scratches and hence rust faster.

    Where the chrome is broken or blistered, sand back to clean metal, acid
    wash, primer and chrome spray paint (I assume you don't want to have
    them stripped polished and re plated)

    Nah, not re-plated on an old beater. Both are common 4 door sedans from
    the 60's/70's or beat up pick up trucks, original and worn, shot
    suspension, etc. Could be restored, but an unlikely candidate, and I
    don't have the money. It's just fun to drive around town. People
    always honk and wave now when you roll down the road in a 60's car.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rod Speed@21:1/5 to Michael Trew on Tue Mar 8 19:10:54 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    Michael Trew <[email protected]> wrote
    AMuzi wrote
    Michael Trew wrote
    The Real Bev wrote

    My grandma never learned to drive, but she scrubbed the
    whitewalls until
    they looked brand new. She also cleaned the chrome with
    steel wool. You
    guys remember chrome, right? Back when bumpers didn't need
    to have their
    broken plastic covers replaced at $hundreds/each.

    The vehicles that I have with chrome bumpers have rust
    scattered on parts of the chrome. I'll have to see if steel
    wool cleans that up.

    For surface discoloration use a chrome polish. Steel wool will leave
    micro scratches and hence rust faster.

    Where the chrome is broken or blistered, sand back to clean metal, acid
    wash, primer and chrome spray paint (I assume you don't want to have
    them stripped polished and re plated)

    Nah, not re-plated on an old beater. Both are common 4 door sedans from
    the 60's/70's or beat up pick up trucks, original and worn, shot
    suspension, etc. Could be restored, but an unlikely candidate, and I
    don't have the money. It's just fun to drive around town.

    People always honk and wave now when you roll down the road in a 60's
    car.

    Doesn't happen here, but we aren't honkys.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Michael Trew on Tue Mar 8 11:31:23 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 3/8/2022 12:44 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/7/2022 9:07, AMuzi wrote:
    On 3/6/2022 9:58 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
    On 3/6/2022 0:51, The Real Bev wrote:

    My grandma never learned to drive, but she scrubbed the
    whitewalls until
    they looked brand new. She also cleaned the chrome with
    steel wool. You
    guys remember chrome, right? Back when bumpers didn't need
    to have their
    broken plastic covers replaced at $hundreds/each.

    The vehicles that I have with chrome bumpers have rust
    scattered on parts of the chrome. I'll have to see if steel
    wool cleans that up.

    For surface discoloration use a chrome polish. Steel wool
    will leave
    micro scratches and hence rust faster.

    Where the chrome is broken or blistered, sand back to
    clean metal, acid
    wash, primer and chrome spray paint (I assume you don't
    want to have
    them stripped polished and re plated)

    Nah, not re-plated on an old beater. Both are common 4 door
    sedans from the 60's/70's or beat up pick up trucks,
    original and worn, shot suspension, etc. Could be restored,
    but an unlikely candidate, and I don't have the money. It's
    just fun to drive around town. People always honk and wave
    now when you roll down the road in a 60's car.

    You've got that right! and girls ♥ classic convertibles

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    <www.yellowjersey.org/>
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Mar 18 12:34:57 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In rec.autos.tech, on Sun, 06 Mar 2022 23:02:27 -0500, Michael Trew <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/6/2022 15:50, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:51:10 -0800, The Real Bev
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The car ultimately developed a lot of
    problems which I had workarounds for, but I ultimately sold it to a
    "fine Cherman VW mechanic" who was sure he could fix it. A friend saw
    it at the local wrecking yard a few weeks later.

    Mine still worked fine, but my brother had gone to Viet Nam and lent,
    then gave me his '65 Catalina convertiable. And as much as I like the
    Olds, I like the Pontiac better. So I gave or sold it for $50 to a guy
    I'd met because he had a car like mine. He had two, and after he had
    mine, he had 3. I hated to promote his nerdish hobby (details on
    request), but it needed a home.

    OK, I'm curious about the "nerdish hobby" now.

    Sorry t his took so long, expecially since I offered detail. P&M

    It was just having a two '50 Olds. He was 35 or almost 40 iirc and he
    said he would drive around the U. of Chicago campus and impress the
    girls, or he hoped he did. Sure, some were interested in an old car but
    I don't think they were attracted to him because of his car.

    I don't know where he actually lived but he owned a townhouse on the
    west side of Chicago which I visited once. The first floor had a big
    room, maybe living and dinning rooms with the wall removed, and it was
    full of boxes of electronics parts and probably other stuff that he
    bought at auctions, I think, There was little furniture, only these
    boxes of stuff and he was so happy to give me some of it, anything I
    could remotely use. He might have lived upstairs come to think of it
    but he implied he didnt'.

    He kept his extra car there, in the back, and now he had 3 '50 or '51
    Olds, one of them a fastback.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Xeno@21:1/5 to Jacob Jones on Sat Mar 19 13:36:06 2022
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 7/3/2022 7:59 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 18:59:30 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 7/3/2022 4:07 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:56:35 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 7/3/2022 2:58 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:43:49 +1100, Xeno <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>> in Houston
    TX <[email protected]> wrote:

    micky wrote:
    Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is driving the
    wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, for
    example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went briefly
    to 5500, the apparent red line.   For several seconds was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at 5000 and
    even longer at 4500.

    I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
    It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> piston rod
    destroying the engine.  I gave it away to a needy person >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who installed a
    used engine and ended up with a nice car.
     So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
     Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> would think you
    came close to the redline even less time than I have!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>  This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3.  A rental with only >>>>>>>>>>>>> 9000 miles on
    it, so it must be new.   I think I bought the insurance, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but regardless,
    I don't want to hurt the car.    mAYBE I shouldnt go lower >>>>>>>>>>>>> than 3rd gear
    and rely on the brakes for anything more.

    A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I >>>>>>>>>>>> approached his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were >>>>>>>>>>>> a lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.
     Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the >>>>>>>>>>> brakes overheat and you can't stop.

    He was right.
     No he was not when you change down before there will be any >>>>>>>>> red lining.

    Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your >>>>>>>>>> engine.
     But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

    That should not be general practice if you care about your >>>>>>>>>> vehicle.
     That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear. >>>>>>>>
    So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and
    clutch. If a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe >>>>>>>> it's time to re-learn how to drive.

     We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to
    descend steep hills.

    No,
     Fraid so.

    *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using
    the service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down >>>>>> on a hill, that's what the service brakes are for.

     Wrong with a long steep descent.

    You slow down *before* you begin your descent.
     What I said long ago.

    Once into the descent at an *appropriate speed*, you only use the
    service brakes to maintain the rate of descent, the engine braking
    taking care of the rest.

     You have that backwards.

    You don't appear to have it at all.

    You are pathetic.

    It's  obvious you have never driven trucks.

     There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.

     And we aren't discussing trucks, we are discussing a medium sized SUV.

    Techniques are the same,

    Nope.

    just way more critical with a fully loaded  truck.

    They aren't critical on a descent which isn't signed
    as a steep descent with a modern medium SUV.

    What you can, and should,  do is use engine  brakingto maintain a >>>>>> steady speed down a steep hill.

     Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.

    Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.

     Or change down initially and don't need the brakes if it is a long
    steep descent.

    You appear to be somewhat clueless.

    You don't have a fucking clue.

    That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat

     What I said long ago.

    and  that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be
    avoided.

     Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent
    goes  for.

    Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the
    descent;how  you manage your speed, both when entering and during
    the descent.

     But you don't get brake fade with a modern car like that unless it
    is a long steep descent.

    Only one thing I can say in response to that - BULLSHIT!

    You are pathetic.

    If  needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
    application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
    required to maintain a steady speed.

     No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

    Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or,for that matter,
    any  heavy vehicle.

     Then you need new glasses bad and that is irrelevant to
    your silly line about a constant speed. Only a fool like you
    would maintain a constant speed in a truck or heavy vehicle,
    at the speed it has to do the worst hairpin bend at and there
    is no way to know what speed that will be in advance anyway.

    You are just trying to confuse the situation.

    You have never had a fucking clue.


    You are sounding remarkably like a recreation of Rod Speed

    --
    Xeno


    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

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