• only slightly OT - Europe needs to get its act together

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 6 10:45:47 2024
    XPost: rec.autos.sport.indycar, rec.autos.sport.nascar

    This is only slightly Off Topic in Formula One.
    A fair number of fans have complained about USA often having
    more than one F1 race a year. A fair number of fans have
    complained about reductions in European F1 circuits being
    used, and increasing ones in the Middle East and Asia.
    F1 must follow world events and trends. Auto making in
    1950 was concentrated in Europe (England, Italy, Germany and
    France) and the USA. That is no longer true.
    Both in population, GDP, and overall power, Europe is
    becoming less important.

    from https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/this-d-day-europe-needs-to-resolve-to-get-its-act-together/

    This D-Day, Europe needs to resolve to get its act together
    June 5, 2024 at 11:14 am
    M. Ryder / Op-Art
    Bret Stephens By Bret Stephens
    Syndicated columnist

    Thursday’s D-Day anniversary — the 80th — is occasioning somber and anxious reflections about the fate of the Atlantic alliance. Somber
    because the last of the Greatest Generation will soon no longer be with
    us. Anxious because former President Donald Trump, and his evident
    disdain for that alliance, may soon be with us again.

    The anxiety is partly misplaced. Trump’s truculent brand of American nationalism is a terrible idea for many reasons, not least in the
    encouragement it gives to Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping to target weaker
    U.S. allies. But Trump is also the messenger of a warning Europeans
    desperately need to heed.

    In a nutshell: Shape up.

    Europe today faces four great challenges that typically determine the
    fate of great powers. Take a brief look:

    Growth and dynamism: In 1960 the EU 28 — the 27 countries currently in
    the European Union, plus Britain — accounted for 36.3% of global gross domestic product. By 2020 it had fallen to 22.4%. By the end of the
    century it is projected to fall to just under 10%. By contrast, the
    United States has maintained a roughly consistent share — around a
    quarter — of global GDP since the Kennedy administration.

    Think of any leading-edge industry — artificial intelligence,
    microchips, software, robotics, genomics — and ask yourself (with a few honorable exceptions), where’s the European Microsoft, Nvidia or OpenAI?

    Military power: When the Cold War ended in 1990, the West German
    military fielded more than 500,000 troops and spent 2.5% of its GDP on
    defense. As of last year, it was down to 181,000 troops and 1.57%.
    Britain’s Royal Navy, the most powerful in the world at the outset of
    World War II, can now deploy just 10 submarines and fewer than two dozen
    major surface warships, some of which are inactive.

    In an all-out war, the British would exhaust their defense capabilities
    in about two months, according to a report to the House of Commons
    defense committee. The same would likely be true — if not much sooner —
    for every EU member-state apart from Poland, which aims to spend as much
    as 5% of its GDP on defense next year.

    Demographics: What do Chancellor Olaf Scholz of Germany, his predecessor
    Angela Merkel, President Emmanuel Macron of France, Prime Minister Mark
    Rutte of the Netherlands and former British Prime Minister Theresa May
    have in common? They are childless. That’s their personal business (and
    far from representative of all EU leaders), but it’s symbolic of a
    Continent where just under 3.9 million Europeans were born in 2022 and
    5.15 million died. A shrinking and aging population typically correlates
    with low economic growth, not least because entrepreneurship is usually
    a young person’s game.

    Europe has an additional challenge: a relatively high Muslim birthrate,
    along with the prospect of long-term Muslim migration. Under a “medium migration” scenario estimated by Pew, by 2050 Britain will be nearly 17% Muslim, France 17.4% and Sweden 20.5%. Those wondering about the
    ascendence of far-right European parties, who are heavily favored to
    sweep this week’s elections in the EU Parliament and who are often sympathetic to Putin, know this is a factor. And they need to be honest
    that the values of depressingly notable segments of these Muslim
    populations are fundamentally at odds with European traditions of moral tolerance and political liberalism.

    Purpose and will: Many of Europe’s current failings are explained (often
    by European leaders themselves) as a problem of political mechanics: insufficient coordination between states; inadequate power in Brussels; failures of transmission between declared goals and real-world results.
    But the problem isn’t just one of process. It’s also one of spirit. A
    few questions:

    ∙ If Russia defeats Ukraine and decides in a few years’ time to attack
    one of the Baltic countries, is there a deep pool of young Germans,
    Belgians or Spaniards willing to die for Tallinn or Vilnius?

    ∙ As Europe’s NATO members struggle to meet the bare minimum goal of spending 2% of their GDP on defense, are they willing to come to grips
    with the fact that they probably need to spend twice as much?

    ∙ How much state protection, in social welfare and economic regulation,
    are Europe’s aging voters willing to forgo for the sake of creating a
    more dynamic economy for a dwindling number of young people?

    ∙ How forceful are European leaders willing to be in insisting that
    their values — including freedom of speech, women’s rights and gay
    rights — must be protected against the illiberal instincts of a growing
    share of their voters?

    Trump’s ideas about NATO, his zero-sum attitudes about winning, his
    fondness for strongmen and his ignorance of and indifference to history
    are all, rightly, causes for European alarm. But people, and nations,
    succeed or fail to the extent that they refuse to hand over
    responsibility for their fates to others.

    “The world is what it is; men who are nothing, who allow themselves to
    become nothing, have no place in it,” V.S. Naipaul once warned. It’s
    good advice for Europe on this solemn anniversary of their previous
    liberation.

    Bret Stephens is a regular columnist for The New York Times.

    Most Read Opinion Stories
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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to A425COUPLE on Thu Jun 6 16:26:00 2024
    The anxiety is partly misplaced. Trump's truculent brand of American nationalism is a terrible idea for many reasons, not least in the encouragement it gives to Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping to target weaker
    U.S. allies. But Trump is also the messenger of a warning Europeans desperately need to heed.

    While I don't disagree with the sentiment here, I do disagree with those examples. Putin and Jinping seemed much more encouraged to start
    (re)targeting allies (Ukraine, Taiwan) after Trump left office.

    Growth and dynamism: In 1960 the EU 28 . the 27 countries currently in
    the European Union, plus Britain . accounted for 36.3% of global gross domestic product. By 2020 it had fallen to 22.4%. By the end of the
    century it is projected to fall to just under 10%. By contrast, the
    United States has maintained a roughly consistent share . around a
    quarter . of global GDP since the Kennedy administration.

    That is interesting, and concerning.

    Military power: When the Cold War ended in 1990, the West German
    military fielded more than 500,000 troops and spent 2.5% of its GDP on defense. As of last year, it was down to 181,000 troops and 1.57%.
    Britain's Royal Navy, the most powerful in the world at the outset of
    World War II, can now deploy just 10 submarines and fewer than two dozen major surface warships, some of which are inactive.

    In an all-out war, the British would exhaust their defense capabilities
    in about two months, according to a report to the House of Commons
    defense committee. The same would likely be true . if not much sooner .
    for every EU member-state apart from Poland, which aims to spend as much
    as 5% of its GDP on defense next year.

    . As Europe's NATO members struggle to meet the bare minimum goal of
    spending 2% of their GDP on defense, are they willing to come to grips
    with the fact that they probably need to spend twice as much?

    These military facts/numbers have provided fodder for the aforementioned Trump nationalists in the US. They use them as proof that other NATO countries are not pulling their weight.

    Trump's ideas about NATO,

    Which come from the facts and numbers stated above, which the US media in
    the past has tried to refute.

    his zero-sum attitudes about winning, his
    fondness for strongmen and his ignorance of and indifference to history
    are all, rightly, causes for European alarm. But people, and nations,
    succeed or fail to the extent that they refuse to hand over
    responsibility for their fates to others.

    Because they don't like these things is not necessarily a reason to act in complete opposite of them. They should do what is necessary in spite of
    what Trump says or thinks...

    "The world is what it is; men who are nothing, who allow themselves to
    become nothing, have no place in it," V.S. Naipaul once warned. It's
    good advice for Europe on this solemn anniversary of their previous liberation.

    ... and they shouldn't be hoping for others to bail them out if the crap
    hits the fan.


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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Dumas Walker on Sat Jun 8 09:23:58 2024
    On 6/5/24 20:26, Dumas Walker wrote:
    The anxiety is partly misplaced. Trump's truculent brand of American
    nationalism is a terrible idea for many reasons, not least in the
    encouragement it gives to Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping to target weaker
    U.S. allies. But Trump is also the messenger of a warning Europeans
    desperately need to heed.

    While I don't disagree with the sentiment here, I do disagree with those examples. Putin and Jinping seemed much more encouraged to start (re)targeting allies (Ukraine, Taiwan) after Trump left office.


    Dumas, you are very correct on that.
    While Democrat Clinton was POTUS, he influenced Ukraine to give
    Russia all the nuclear weapons they possessed in return for just
    a treaty and a promise of independence and peace.
    While Democrat Obama was POTUS Putin's Russia by force took
    Ukraine's Crimea and eastern provinces.
    While Republican Trump was in office as POTUS Ukraine may have
    been 'bad mouthed' but was not attacked.
    After Democrat Biden became POTUS Putin's Russia launched
    the major "Special Operation" to invade and try to conquer.

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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 8 09:28:20 2024
    On 6/7/24 03:35, ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 7/06/2024 5:45 am, a425couple wrote:
    This is only slightly Off Topic in Formula One.
    A fair number of fans have complained about USA often having
    more than one F1 race a year.  A fair number of fans have
    complained about reductions in European F1 circuits being
    used, and increasing ones in the Middle East and Asia.
    F1 must follow world events and trends.  Auto making in
    1950 was concentrated in Europe (England, Italy, Germany and
    France) and the USA.  That is no longer true.
    Both in population, GDP, and overall power, Europe is
    becoming less important.

    <X-posting removed>

    While I understand the whole 'follow the money' thing I think that it's
    also important that F1 races mostly where it's culture is strong and
    where it's drivers come from.

    What would you propose someone do,
    in order to have another German GP ?

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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 10 10:06:40 2024
    On 6/9/24 20:57, ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 9/06/2024 4:28 am, a425couple wrote:
    On 6/7/24 03:35, ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 7/06/2024 5:45 am, a425couple wrote:
    This is only slightly Off Topic in Formula One.
    A fair number of fans have complained about USA often having
    more than one F1 race a year.  A fair number of fans have
    complained about reductions in European F1 circuits being
    used, and increasing ones in the Middle East and Asia.
    F1 must follow world events and trends.  Auto making in
    1950 was concentrated in Europe (England, Italy, Germany and
    France) and the USA.  That is no longer true.
    Both in population, GDP, and overall power, Europe is
    becoming less important.

    <X-posting removed>

    While I understand the whole 'follow the money' thing I think that
    it's also important that F1 races mostly where it's culture is strong
    and where it's drivers come from.

    What would you propose someone do,
    in order to have another German GP ?

    Maybe have a German manufacturer racing at the sharp end?

    Maybe have a German manufacturer racing at the sharp end?

    Yes. Marketing 101 would say that, and also have a German driver
    doing well.
    Well, Mercedes has had an extremely long string of 'sharp end's,
    and only recently dropped to 3rd or so. And Hulkenberg is still
    there, and Mick Schumacher has not been long gone.
    But,,,,, still not enough. Last German GP was 2019,, arguably
    the unusual 2020.

    But, somehow, the marketing and current culture are not easily
    predictable. So, maybe all we can do is continue being
    ourselves as 'remote fans' and enjoy what we can watch
    while that F1 circus does it's thing chasing the money.

    No, I do not like what Bernie and Tilkie have done.
    I also am real unhappy at what "marketing" and the NCAA
    and colleges have done to sports. Or what voters have
    done to politics. Or the fact I'm getting too lazy
    to do much racing myself. So,, maybe I'm just becoming
    a lazy grumpy old man.

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