Well that was fun !Yes, good fun and I quite enjoyed Jenson being in the commentary box. His experience and humor we a refreshing balance to Croft's over the top "enthusiasm."
All thru the field, all thru the race.
Geoff
On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 6:35:09 AM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
Well that was fun !Yes, good fun and I quite enjoyed Jenson being in the commentary box. His experience and humor we a refreshing balance to Croft's over the top "enthusiasm."
All thru the field, all thru the race.
Geoff
FWIW
DLM
Well that was fun !
All thru the field, all thru the race.
geoff
Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way passed the halfway point.
On 4/2/23 04:34, geoff wrote:
Well that was fun !
All thru the field, all thru the race.
I disagree.
I thought at the time, and I still think,
that doing a standing start re-start with only 3
laps left in the race is dangerous, wasteful of
materials (cars, drivers, workers) and grossly
unfair.
Huge ego Verstappen had built up a 8 to 10
second lead and was securely holding it.
Eliminating that advantage and subjecting
him and all the others to the risk and vagaries
of a 18 car drag race is not proper.
Four cars quite damaged for no justifiable reason!
And if that 're-start' was justified, since no
progress was made (zero laps), why did they then
do safety car laps for a rolling 're-start'
to yellow flag finish at checkered flag?
a425couple <[email protected]> writes:
On 4/2/23 04:34, geoff wrote:
Well that was fun !
All thru the field, all thru the race.
I disagree.
I thought at the time, and I still think,
that doing a standing start re-start with only 3
laps left in the race is dangerous, wasteful of
materials (cars, drivers, workers) and grossly
unfair.
Well said.
Huge ego Verstappen had built up a 8 to 10
second lead and was securely holding it.
Eliminating that advantage and subjecting
him and all the others to the risk and vagaries
of a 18 car drag race is not proper.
Four cars quite damaged for no justifiable reason!
And if that 're-start' was justified, since no
progress was made (zero laps), why did they then
do safety car laps for a rolling 're-start'
to yellow flag finish at checkered flag?
Because someone has to take the chequered flag. Without the mighty
chequered flag, it's not a race. All hail the chequered flag.
Phil
aged for no justifiable reason!
On 4/2/23 04:34, geoff wrote:
Well that was fun !
All thru the field, all thru the race.
geoff
I disagree.
I thought at the time, and I still think,
that doing a standing start re-start with only 3
laps left in the race is dangerous, wasteful of
materials (cars, drivers, workers) and grossly
unfair.
Huge ego Verstappen had built up a 8 to 10
second lead and was securely holding it.
Eliminating that advantage and subjecting
him and all the others to the risk and vagaries
of a 18 car drag race is not proper.
Four cars quite damaged for no justifiable reason!
And if that 're-start' was justified, since no
progress was made (zero laps), why did they then
do safety car laps for a rolling 're-start'
to yellow flag finish at checkered flag?
On 4/04/2023 4:30 am, a425couple wrote:
aged for no justifiable reason!
Yes, the last 'restart' was totally pointless.
On 4/2/23 04:34, geoff wrote:
Well that was fun !
All thru the field, all thru the race.
I disagree.
I thought at the time, and I still think,
that doing a standing start re-start with only 3
laps left in the race is dangerous, wasteful of
materials (cars, drivers, workers) and grossly
unfair.
On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way
passed the halfway point.
They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at
Spa, when the race was called early.
OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the
theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not
complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions *might* change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line when
the race would be over.
On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a motor
On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way
passed the halfway point.
They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at
Spa, when the race was called early.
OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions *might* change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line whenI think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start with
the race would be over.
only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with
lots of laps remaining.
The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red
with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the situation.
I think it's pretty obvious
On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a motor race without some winners and some losers. Opportunistic pitstops,
On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start with
Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way
passed the halfway point.
They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at
Spa, when the race was called early.
OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were
considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the
theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not
complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions *might*
change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line when
the race would be over.
only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with
lots of laps remaining.
The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red
with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the situation.
pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's imperfect.
But it does just need some clarity.
Maybe something like this?
- Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
- Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
- Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag
On 4/5/23 00:55, Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a motor
On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start with
Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way >>>>> passed the halfway point.
They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at >>>> Spa, when the race was called early.
OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were
considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the
theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not
complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions *might* >>>> change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line when >>>> the race would be over.
only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with
lots of laps remaining.
The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red
with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the
situation.
race without some winners and some losers. Opportunistic pitstops,
pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's
imperfect.
But it does just need some clarity.
Maybe something like this?
- Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
- Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
- Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag
Matt, the above is reasonable.
Although, personally, I would never wish the standing restarts.
Standing starts are dangerous.
A reasonable and justifiable running order is established by
racing. In a normal SC rolling restart there would commonly
be about 1 second gap between cars. Thus, if a driver is really on top
of his game and willing to take some risks, they might gain
one spot. In a standing start, a driver is really on top of his game
and willing to take risks might gain up to 4 or 5 spots. I think that
is unfair and way too risky.
On 2023-04-05 10:43, News wrote:
On 4/5/2023 1:08 PM, a425couple wrote:
On 4/5/23 00:55, Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a
On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start
Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way >>>>>>> passed the halfway point.
They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race
distance at
Spa, when the race was called early.
OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were >>>>>> considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the >>>>>> theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not >>>>>> complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions
*might*
change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line >>>>>> when
the race would be over.
with
only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with >>>>> lots of laps remaining.
The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red >>>>> with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the
situation.
motor
race without some winners and some losers. Opportunistic pitstops,
pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's
imperfect.
But it does just need some clarity.
Maybe something like this?
- Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
- Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
- Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag
Matt, the above is reasonable.
Although, personally, I would never wish the standing restarts.
Standing starts are dangerous.
A reasonable and justifiable running order is established by
racing. In a normal SC rolling restart there would commonly
be about 1 second gap between cars. Thus, if a driver is really on
top of his game and willing to take some risks, they might gain
one spot. In a standing start, a driver is really on top of his game
and willing to take risks might gain up to 4 or 5 spots. I think
that is unfair and way too risky.
A final lap standing restart is an 'all or nothing' proposition --
which we saw play out.
No. We did not see a "final lap standing restart".
The second standing restart was with 3 laps remaining (flagged red on
lap 55 of a 58 lap race.
Get your facts right.
On 4/5/2023 1:08 PM, a425couple wrote:
On 4/5/23 00:55, Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a
On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start with >>>> only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with
Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way >>>>>> passed the halfway point.
They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at >>>>> Spa, when the race was called early.
OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were >>>>> considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the >>>>> theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not
complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions
*might*
change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line
when
the race would be over.
lots of laps remaining.
The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red >>>> with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the
situation.
motor
race without some winners and some losers. Opportunistic pitstops,
pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's
imperfect.
But it does just need some clarity.
Maybe something like this?
- Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
- Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
- Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag
Matt, the above is reasonable.
Although, personally, I would never wish the standing restarts.
Standing starts are dangerous.
A reasonable and justifiable running order is established by
racing. In a normal SC rolling restart there would commonly
be about 1 second gap between cars. Thus, if a driver is really on
top of his game and willing to take some risks, they might gain
one spot. In a standing start, a driver is really on top of his game
and willing to take risks might gain up to 4 or 5 spots. I think that
is unfair and way too risky.
A final lap standing restart is an 'all or nothing' proposition -- which
we saw play out.
On 4/5/2023 2:33 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-04-05 10:43, News wrote:
On 4/5/2023 1:08 PM, a425couple wrote:
On 4/5/23 00:55, Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a
On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start >>>>>> with
Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way >>>>>>>> passed the halfway point.
They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race
distance at
Spa, when the race was called early.
OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were >>>>>>> considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into >>>>>>> the
theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not >>>>>>> complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions
*might*
change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish
line when
the race would be over.
only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with >>>>>> lots of laps remaining.
The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a >>>>>> red
with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the
situation.
motor
race without some winners and some losers. Opportunistic pitstops, >>>>> pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's >>>>> imperfect.
But it does just need some clarity.
Maybe something like this?
- Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
- Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
- Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag
Matt, the above is reasonable.
Although, personally, I would never wish the standing restarts.
Standing starts are dangerous.
A reasonable and justifiable running order is established by
racing. In a normal SC rolling restart there would commonly
be about 1 second gap between cars. Thus, if a driver is really on
top of his game and willing to take some risks, they might gain
one spot. In a standing start, a driver is really on top of his
game and willing to take risks might gain up to 4 or 5 spots. I
think that is unfair and way too risky.
A final lap standing restart is an 'all or nothing' proposition --
which we saw play out.
No. We did not see a "final lap standing restart".
The second standing restart was with 3 laps remaining (flagged red on
lap 55 of a 58 lap race.
Get your facts right.
Distinction without much of a difference -- 'all or nothing'
"It was decided that the race would be restarted with the final lap
completed behind the Safety Car, but in the order before the final
standing restart and ensuing mess."
But it never helps a discussion to get the facts wrong.
Get your facts right.
Get your facts right.
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