• Melbourne 2023

    From geoff@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 2 23:34:53 2023
    Well that was fun !

    All thru the field, all thru the race.

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From D Munz@21:1/5 to geoff on Mon Apr 3 07:33:58 2023
    On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 6:35:09 AM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
    Well that was fun !

    All thru the field, all thru the race.

    Geoff
    Yes, good fun and I quite enjoyed Jenson being in the commentary box. His experience and humor we a refreshing balance to Croft's over the top "enthusiasm."

    FWIW
    DLM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Darryl Johnson@21:1/5 to D Munz on Mon Apr 3 13:08:32 2023
    On 2023-04-03 10:33 AM, D Munz wrote:
    On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 6:35:09 AM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
    Well that was fun !

    All thru the field, all thru the race.

    Geoff
    Yes, good fun and I quite enjoyed Jenson being in the commentary box. His experience and humor we a refreshing balance to Croft's over the top "enthusiasm."

    FWIW
    DLM

    Yes, Jensen was a lovely change from Martin Brundle. Loved the enthusiasm!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to geoff on Mon Apr 3 09:30:31 2023
    On 4/2/23 04:34, geoff wrote:
    Well that was fun !

    All thru the field, all thru the race.

    geoff


    I disagree.
    I thought at the time, and I still think,
    that doing a standing start re-start with only 3
    laps left in the race is dangerous, wasteful of
    materials (cars, drivers, workers) and grossly
    unfair.

    Huge ego Verstappen had built up a 8 to 10
    second lead and was securely holding it.
    Eliminating that advantage and subjecting
    him and all the others to the risk and vagaries
    of a 18 car drag race is not proper.

    Four cars quite damaged for no justifiable reason!

    And if that 're-start' was justified, since no
    progress was made (zero laps), why did they then
    do safety car laps for a rolling 're-start'
    to yellow flag finish at checkered flag?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Darryl Johnson@21:1/5 to XYXPDQ on Mon Apr 3 13:13:20 2023
    On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
    Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way passed the halfway point.

    They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at
    Spa, when the race was called early.

    OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were
    considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the
    theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not
    complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions *might*
    change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line when
    the race would be over.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From XYXPDQ@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 3 09:32:07 2023
    Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way passed the halfway point.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Carmody@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Apr 3 22:49:42 2023
    a425couple <[email protected]> writes:
    On 4/2/23 04:34, geoff wrote:
    Well that was fun !

    All thru the field, all thru the race.

    I disagree.
    I thought at the time, and I still think,
    that doing a standing start re-start with only 3
    laps left in the race is dangerous, wasteful of
    materials (cars, drivers, workers) and grossly
    unfair.

    Well said.

    Huge ego Verstappen had built up a 8 to 10
    second lead and was securely holding it.
    Eliminating that advantage and subjecting
    him and all the others to the risk and vagaries
    of a 18 car drag race is not proper.

    Four cars quite damaged for no justifiable reason!

    And if that 're-start' was justified, since no
    progress was made (zero laps), why did they then
    do safety car laps for a rolling 're-start'
    to yellow flag finish at checkered flag?

    Because someone has to take the chequered flag. Without the mighty
    chequered flag, it's not a race. All hail the chequered flag.

    Phil
    --
    We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
    -- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Phil Carmody on Mon Apr 3 13:12:16 2023
    On 4/3/23 12:49, Phil Carmody wrote:
    a425couple <[email protected]> writes:
    On 4/2/23 04:34, geoff wrote:
    Well that was fun !

    All thru the field, all thru the race.

    I disagree.
    I thought at the time, and I still think,
    that doing a standing start re-start with only 3
    laps left in the race is dangerous, wasteful of
    materials (cars, drivers, workers) and grossly
    unfair.

    Well said.


    Thank you Phil.

    Huge ego Verstappen had built up a 8 to 10
    second lead and was securely holding it.
    Eliminating that advantage and subjecting
    him and all the others to the risk and vagaries
    of a 18 car drag race is not proper.

    Four cars quite damaged for no justifiable reason!

    And if that 're-start' was justified, since no
    progress was made (zero laps), why did they then
    do safety car laps for a rolling 're-start'
    to yellow flag finish at checkered flag?

    Because someone has to take the chequered flag. Without the mighty
    chequered flag, it's not a race. All hail the chequered flag.
    Phil

    Yes, Phil. All hail the checkered flag.
    I am fully in agreement with that finish Phil,
    What I object to is the great risk of a standing
    start / drag race with just 3 laps left.
    Great temptation to take risks to try passes
    that would not be 'real'.
    And that danger was proven by the 'bumper car'
    games and wrecks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mr Gobrien@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 3 13:25:57 2023
    as a425couple says, it is about the checkered flag - the mass circulation of publicity photos of the winning car passing it (that is also why the safety car pulls into the pits - so that it doesn't block any photos of the finish line etc).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From geoff@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 4 10:08:00 2023
    On 4/04/2023 4:30 am, a425couple wrote:
    aged for no justifiable reason!

    Yes, the last 'restart' was totally pointless.

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ~misfit~@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 4 17:53:48 2023
    On 4/04/2023 4:30 am, a425couple wrote:
    On 4/2/23 04:34, geoff wrote:
    Well that was fun !

    All thru the field, all thru the race.

    geoff


    I disagree.
    I thought at the time, and I still think,
    that doing a standing start re-start with only 3
    laps left in the race is dangerous, wasteful of
    materials (cars, drivers, workers) and grossly
    unfair.

    Huge ego Verstappen had built up a 8 to 10
    second lead and was securely holding it.
    Eliminating that advantage and subjecting
    him and all the others to the risk and vagaries
    of a 18 car drag race is not proper.

    Four cars quite damaged for no justifiable reason!

    And if that 're-start' was justified, since no
    progress was made (zero laps), why did they then
    do safety car laps for a rolling 're-start'
    to yellow flag finish at checkered flag?

    Noy defending any decisions made by race control but they couldn't do another standing start
    because Verstappen crossed the control line in the pits after the red flag meaning they were
    already on the last lap as soon as the came out of the pits again.

    A standing start would have required an out lap and that would have been the last lap of the race
    complete. There's no point starting again with must metres to go.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Carmody@21:1/5 to geoff on Tue Apr 4 10:35:43 2023
    geoff <[email protected]> writes:
    On 4/04/2023 4:30 am, a425couple wrote:
    aged for no justifiable reason!

    Yes, the last 'restart' was totally pointless.

    Given that the last restart was completely pointless, and it came about
    because of the entirely predictable consequences of the previous
    restart, it was the previous restart that should be the focus of our
    ire. If they don't make that mistake, the things that happened
    afterwards wouldn't be spirited into existence again. It would have
    been a minor disappointment to just finish under the SC, but it would
    have been fair and not unnecessarily destructive, which I consider to be
    more important attributes for a "race".

    Phil
    --
    We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
    -- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Apr 4 08:25:33 2023
    a425couple <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/2/23 04:34, geoff wrote:
    Well that was fun !

    All thru the field, all thru the race.

    I disagree.
    I thought at the time, and I still think,
    that doing a standing start re-start with only 3
    laps left in the race is dangerous, wasteful of
    materials (cars, drivers, workers) and grossly
    unfair.

    I sympathise with the views of everyone who has come out against the
    restart, but let me play devil's advocate briefly...

    One of the things that has kept the peace (mostly) in F1 is strict
    adherence to the written rules. In fact, whether you look at Abu Dhabi
    2021 or a lot of other flare-ups, at its heart is deviation from the rules/interpretation of the rules in ways that can be interpreted as
    partisan. I think there is a case for introducing a new rule to make
    this a case where a race *will* end early (let's not have ambiguity or discretion for the race director on this, please!), that wouldn't have
    been available on Sunday. As others have pointed out, there wasn't a
    specific rule (on safety, procedure, etc.) that meant you *shouldn't*
    complete race distance, so the general rules (and interpretation of the
    rules) pretty much tie the hands of the race director to complete race distance.

    So, what's the point? Well, I think poor Russell gives one example. At
    any point before race distance, an engine (or any other
    mechanical/control) issue could put someone out of the race and change
    the outcome. Similarly, drivers can bin it (has happened many times on
    cold tyres) or be involved in collisions. Yes, that's simply pointless
    risk and very expensive for limited value in terms of the race, but as
    it is the drivers really should be able to safely traverse a few laps
    behind the safety car without these kinds of incident*.

    What I would particularly dislike is for endless arguments about
    validity of results (including WDC/WCC) because race directors had
    selectively ended races multiple times even more than a few laps ahead
    of the chequered flag simply because the result looks settled or (worse)
    picked and chose the circumstances under which it did and didn't happen.
    That level of discretion would lead to all kinds of claim and
    counter-claim.

    So, it was something of a farce but I think it was unavoidable.

    * Incidentally, I don't agree with those who want to hang Hamilton for
    slowing the pack up at the earlier restart, leading to some very
    dangerous bunching. These drivers shouldn't be roaring around blind
    corners without being ready to slow and stop.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Darryl Johnson on Tue Apr 4 07:49:41 2023
    On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
    Why was that non-lap restart required at the end?  The race was way
    passed the halfway point.

    They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at
    Spa, when the race was called  early.

    OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the
    theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not
    complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions *might* change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line when
    the race would be over.

    I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start with
    only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with
    lots of laps remaining.

    The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red
    with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the situation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Matt Larkin@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Apr 5 00:55:31 2023
    On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
    Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way
    passed the halfway point.

    They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at
    Spa, when the race was called early.

    OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions *might* change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line when
    the race would be over.
    I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start with
    only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with
    lots of laps remaining.

    The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red
    with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the situation.
    The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a motor
    race without some winners and some losers. Opportunistic pitstops,
    pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's imperfect.

    But it does just need some clarity.

    Maybe something like this?
    - Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
    - Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
    - Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Apr 5 05:39:16 2023
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 8:49:44 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

    I think it's pretty obvious

    I think it's pretty obvious that you are a fucking idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Matt Larkin on Wed Apr 5 10:08:42 2023
    On 4/5/23 00:55, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
    Why was that non-lap restart required at the end? The race was way
    passed the halfway point.

    They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at
    Spa, when the race was called early.

    OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were
    considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the
    theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not
    complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions *might*
    change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line when
    the race would be over.
    I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start with
    only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with
    lots of laps remaining.

    The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red
    with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the situation.
    The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a motor race without some winners and some losers. Opportunistic pitstops,
    pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's imperfect.

    But it does just need some clarity.

    Maybe something like this?
    - Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
    - Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
    - Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag

    Matt, the above is reasonable.
    Although, personally, I would never wish the standing restarts.
    Standing starts are dangerous.
    A reasonable and justifiable running order is established by
    racing. In a normal SC rolling restart there would commonly
    be about 1 second gap between cars. Thus, if a driver is really on top
    of his game and willing to take some risks, they might gain
    one spot. In a standing start, a driver is really on top of his game
    and willing to take risks might gain up to 4 or 5 spots. I think that
    is unfair and way too risky.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From News@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 5 13:43:34 2023
    On 4/5/2023 1:08 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 4/5/23 00:55, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
    Why was that non-lap restart required at the end?  The race was way >>>>> passed the halfway point.

    They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at >>>> Spa, when the race was called  early.

    OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were
    considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the
    theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not
    complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions *might* >>>> change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line when >>>> the race would be over.
    I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start with
    only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with
    lots of laps remaining.

    The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red
    with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the
    situation.
    The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a motor
    race without some winners and some losers.  Opportunistic pitstops,
    pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's
    imperfect.

    But it does just need some clarity.

    Maybe something like this?
    - Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
    - Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
    - Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag

    Matt, the above is reasonable.
    Although, personally, I would never wish the standing restarts.
    Standing starts are dangerous.
    A reasonable and justifiable running order is established by
    racing.  In a normal SC rolling restart there would commonly
    be about 1 second gap between cars.  Thus, if a driver is really on top
    of his game and willing to take some risks, they might gain
    one spot.  In a standing start, a driver is really on top of his game
    and willing to take risks might gain up to 4 or 5 spots.  I think that
    is unfair and way too risky.





    A final lap standing restart is an 'all or nothing' proposition -- which
    we saw play out.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From News@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Apr 5 15:03:48 2023
    On 4/5/2023 2:33 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-05 10:43, News wrote:
    On 4/5/2023 1:08 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 4/5/23 00:55, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
    Why was that non-lap restart required at the end?  The race was way >>>>>>> passed the halfway point.

    They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race
    distance at
    Spa, when the race was called  early.

    OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were >>>>>> considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the >>>>>> theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not >>>>>> complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions
    *might*
    change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line >>>>>> when
    the race would be over.
    I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start
    with
    only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with >>>>> lots of laps remaining.

    The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red >>>>> with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the
    situation.
    The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a
    motor
    race without some winners and some losers.  Opportunistic pitstops,
    pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's
    imperfect.

    But it does just need some clarity.

    Maybe something like this?
    - Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
    - Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
    - Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag

    Matt, the above is reasonable.
    Although, personally, I would never wish the standing restarts.
    Standing starts are dangerous.
    A reasonable and justifiable running order is established by
    racing.  In a normal SC rolling restart there would commonly
    be about 1 second gap between cars.  Thus, if a driver is really on
    top of his game and willing to take some risks, they might gain
    one spot.  In a standing start, a driver is really on top of his game
    and willing to take risks might gain up to 4 or 5 spots.  I think
    that is unfair and way too risky.





    A final lap standing restart is an 'all or nothing' proposition --
    which we saw play out.

    No. We did not see a "final lap standing restart".

    The second standing restart was with 3 laps remaining (flagged red on
    lap 55 of a 58 lap race.

    Get your facts right.


    Distinction without much of a difference -- 'all or nothing'

    "It was decided that the race would be restarted with the final lap
    completed behind the Safety Car, but in the order before the final
    standing restart and ensuing mess."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to News on Wed Apr 5 11:33:17 2023
    On 2023-04-05 10:43, News wrote:
    On 4/5/2023 1:08 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 4/5/23 00:55, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
    Why was that non-lap restart required at the end?  The race was way >>>>>> passed the halfway point.

    They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race distance at >>>>> Spa, when the race was called  early.

    OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were >>>>> considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into the >>>>> theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not
    complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions
    *might*
    change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish line
    when
    the race would be over.
    I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start with >>>> only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with
    lots of laps remaining.

    The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a red >>>> with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the
    situation.
    The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a
    motor
    race without some winners and some losers.  Opportunistic pitstops,
    pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's
    imperfect.

    But it does just need some clarity.

    Maybe something like this?
    - Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
    - Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
    - Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag

    Matt, the above is reasonable.
    Although, personally, I would never wish the standing restarts.
    Standing starts are dangerous.
    A reasonable and justifiable running order is established by
    racing.  In a normal SC rolling restart there would commonly
    be about 1 second gap between cars.  Thus, if a driver is really on
    top of his game and willing to take some risks, they might gain
    one spot.  In a standing start, a driver is really on top of his game
    and willing to take risks might gain up to 4 or 5 spots.  I think that
    is unfair and way too risky.





    A final lap standing restart is an 'all or nothing' proposition -- which
    we saw play out.

    No. We did not see a "final lap standing restart".

    The second standing restart was with 3 laps remaining (flagged red on
    lap 55 of a 58 lap race.

    Get your facts right.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to News on Wed Apr 5 12:50:31 2023
    On 2023-04-05 12:03, News wrote:
    On 4/5/2023 2:33 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-05 10:43, News wrote:
    On 4/5/2023 1:08 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 4/5/23 00:55, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 15:49:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 10:13, Darryl Johnson wrote:
    On 2023-04-03 12:32 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
    Why was that non-lap restart required at the end?  The race was way >>>>>>>> passed the halfway point.

    They certainly did not make the cars run for the full race
    distance at
    Spa, when the race was called  early.

    OK, I'll admit that the Spa race was stopped because conditions were >>>>>>> considered too dangerous to continue, but I don't really buy into >>>>>>> the
    theory presented that there was a chance that some car(s) might not >>>>>>> complete the pace car lap and therefore the finishing positions
    *might*
    change despite not being able to pass before the start/finish
    line when
    the race would be over.
    I think it's pretty obvious that the strategy for a standing start >>>>>> with
    only a few laps left is going to be very different than for one with >>>>>> lots of laps remaining.

    The FIA probably needs to have an option to restart a race after a >>>>>> red
    with either a standing start or a rolling start depending on the
    situation.
    The reality is that there is no perfectly sporting way to restart a
    motor
    race without some winners and some losers.  Opportunistic pitstops, >>>>> pitstops taken on the lap before the stop / SC, etc etc all mean it's >>>>> imperfect.

    But it does just need some clarity.

    Maybe something like this?
    - Red flag before 50% race distance; standing restart
    - Red flag before 90% race distance; SC rolling restart
    - Red flag after 90% race distance; chequered flag

    Matt, the above is reasonable.
    Although, personally, I would never wish the standing restarts.
    Standing starts are dangerous.
    A reasonable and justifiable running order is established by
    racing.  In a normal SC rolling restart there would commonly
    be about 1 second gap between cars.  Thus, if a driver is really on
    top of his game and willing to take some risks, they might gain
    one spot.  In a standing start, a driver is really on top of his
    game and willing to take risks might gain up to 4 or 5 spots.  I
    think that is unfair and way too risky.





    A final lap standing restart is an 'all or nothing' proposition --
    which we saw play out.

    No. We did not see a "final lap standing restart".

    The second standing restart was with 3 laps remaining (flagged red on
    lap 55 of a 58 lap race.

    Get your facts right.


    Distinction without much of a difference -- 'all or nothing'

    "It was decided that the race would be restarted with the final lap
    completed behind the Safety Car, but in the order before the final
    standing restart and ensuing mess."

    I agree that a restart with only a few laps remaining is a bad idea.

    But it never helps a discussion to get the facts wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Apr 5 14:57:26 2023
    On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 1:50:34 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

    But it never helps a discussion to get the facts wrong.

    fuck off
    you fucking cunt

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Apr 5 14:58:28 2023
    On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 12:33:20 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

    Get your facts right.

    fuck off
    you fucking cunt

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Apr 5 16:48:45 2023
    On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 12:33:20 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

    Get your facts right.

    you are a fucking idiot
    thats a fact

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)