• Dutch GP - Another lottery

    From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 4 20:48:49 2022
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver
    error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last
    drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".

    Well done George on the call for softs, why didn't HAM/his team do the
    same when it seemed so appropriate.

    Alternativatly have a chance pack of cards and after qualifying the
    cards are turned over one by one, eg car 4 hits car 5, or car 8 spins.

    Oh and Ferrari. How many mistakes can you make in one race (after a
    series of errors every race for the past few seasons) and still keep
    your job. Knackers yard for the crippled horse.

    I might look in again next season to see if anything has improved.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Sun Sep 4 14:58:04 2022
    On 09/04/2022 01:48 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver
    error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last
    drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".


    How many F1 races have you actually attended?

    Many fans would not be pleased when you had reduced the
    field down to only 9 cars.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 4 15:57:36 2022
    On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 3:58:10 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:

    How many F1 races have you actually attended?

    Hey creepy.
    Are you creepy alan baker?

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  • From 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Mon Sep 5 08:41:04 2022
    [email protected]d (AnthonyL) writes:

    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    Still seething? :^)

    <snip>

    I might look in again next season to see if anything has improved.

    OK. See you next season.

    --
    Pointless meanderings in a bleak and lonely world.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 4 20:24:53 2022
    On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 8:38:13 PM UTC-6, 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD wrote:

    Still seething? :^)

    fuck you
    you fucking cunt

    OK. See you next season.

    fuck you
    you fucking cunt

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 4 21:01:52 2022
    On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 8:38:13 PM UTC-6, 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD wrote:

    OK. See you next season.

    while you see monkey pox this season
    you queer ass cock sucker

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  • From Matt Larkin@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Mon Sep 5 00:54:29 2022
    On Sunday, 4 September 2022 at 21:48:49 UTC+1, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver
    error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last
    drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".

    Well done George on the call for softs, why didn't HAM/his team do the
    same when it seemed so appropriate.

    Alternativatly have a chance pack of cards and after qualifying the
    cards are turned over one by one, eg car 4 hits car 5, or car 8 spins.

    Oh and Ferrari. How many mistakes can you make in one race (after a
    series of errors every race for the past few seasons) and still keep
    your job. Knackers yard for the crippled horse.

    I might look in again next season to see if anything has improved.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    I don't entirely disagree that I don't like the "lottery" element of race outcomes; when a team has done everything right and then something
    utterly unconnected to their race causes them to lose out.

    But on the flip side, it is a rare event where the outcome wouldn't otherwise be entirely predictable without something random happening.

    Zaandvoort would have been one of those rare races where the pre-race expectations could have been misplaced as Ferrari underperformed,
    Merc over-performed and had a great alternative strategy etc.

    Had Ham taken the softs at the SC period he'd probably have banked second place, that's true. But the team gambled that he'd want a win or nothing, so left him with the only option that would see him starting the re-start with track position. Russell was lucky that he could free-stop without losing a top three place and made the right call.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 5 11:52:47 2022
    On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 14:58:04 -0700, a425couple <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 09/04/2022 01:48 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver
    error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last
    drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".


    How many F1 races have you actually attended?


    I haven't. Telly makes more sense.

    Many fans would not be pleased when you had reduced the
    field down to only 9 cars.


    I think many fans would be pleased to see a better standard of racing,
    else may as well go to stock car races. Oh, don't tell me that F1
    fans go for the thrills and spills and walk away disappointed if
    no-one has flipped over.

    Arrange it so that there should be 10 finishes. Give tenths of a
    point so that 11th gets 0.9 etc. Cut down on poor cars/poor
    drivers/poor teams have a misproportionate say in the outcome of the
    top ten.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ~misfit~@21:1/5 to Matt Larkin on Mon Sep 5 23:22:31 2022
    On 5/09/2022 7:54 pm, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Sunday, 4 September 2022 at 21:48:49 UTC+1, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver
    error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last
    drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".

    Well done George on the call for softs, why didn't HAM/his team do the
    same when it seemed so appropriate.

    Alternativatly have a chance pack of cards and after qualifying the
    cards are turned over one by one, eg car 4 hits car 5, or car 8 spins.

    Oh and Ferrari. How many mistakes can you make in one race (after a
    series of errors every race for the past few seasons) and still keep
    your job. Knackers yard for the crippled horse.

    I might look in again next season to see if anything has improved.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    I don't entirely disagree that I don't like the "lottery" element of race outcomes; when a team has done everything right and then something
    utterly unconnected to their race causes them to lose out.

    But on the flip side, it is a rare event where the outcome wouldn't otherwise be entirely predictable without something random happening.

    Zaandvoort would have been one of those rare races where the pre-race expectations could have been misplaced as Ferrari underperformed,
    Merc over-performed and had a great alternative strategy etc.

    Hardly unpredictable though, this was my race pick:

    Pole position: VER
    P1: VER
    P2: HAM
    P3: RUS

    I expected Ferrari to mess it up and I expected Mercedes to do well at this track (with Hamilton
    doing better than Russell, all things being equal). If it hadn't been for Mercedes letting a driver
    call his own strategy in the last safety car period then I wouldn't have been far off.

    (I think Hamilton has been bitten by calling his own strategy and having it turn out badly in the
    past so now lets the team do their jobs. Not saying he doesn't bitch about some of their decisions
    though...)

    Had Ham taken the softs at the SC period he'd probably have banked second place, that's true. But the team gambled that he'd want a win or nothing, so left him with the only option that would see him starting the re-start with track position. Russell was lucky that he could free-stop without losing a top
    three place and made the right call.

    <grumble grumble>
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 11 15:00:56 2022
    On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:52:47 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:

    On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 14:58:04 -0700, a425couple <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 09/04/2022 01:48 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver
    error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last
    drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".


    How many F1 races have you actually attended?


    I haven't. Telly makes more sense.

    Many fans would not be pleased when you had reduced the
    field down to only 9 cars.


    I think many fans would be pleased to see a better standard of racing,
    else may as well go to stock car races. Oh, don't tell me that F1
    fans go for the thrills and spills and walk away disappointed if
    no-one has flipped over.

    Arrange it so that there should be 10 finishes. Give tenths of a
    point so that 11th gets 0.9 etc. Cut down on poor cars/poor
    drivers/poor teams have a misproportionate say in the outcome of the
    top ten.


    Well fortunately I wasn't around to try and waste any time with the
    Monza Grand Prix so where was Riccardo when he ruined the race?


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sir Tim@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Sun Sep 11 17:07:27 2022
    AnthonyL <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:52:47 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:

    On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 14:58:04 -0700, a425couple <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 09/04/2022 01:48 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver >>>> error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last >>>> drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".


    How many F1 races have you actually attended?


    I haven't. Telly makes more sense.

    Many fans would not be pleased when you had reduced the
    field down to only 9 cars.


    I think many fans would be pleased to see a better standard of racing,
    else may as well go to stock car races. Oh, don't tell me that F1
    fans go for the thrills and spills and walk away disappointed if
    no-one has flipped over.

    Arrange it so that there should be 10 finishes. Give tenths of a
    point so that 11th gets 0.9 etc. Cut down on poor cars/poor
    drivers/poor teams have a misproportionate say in the outcome of the
    top ten.


    Well fortunately I wasn't around to try and waste any time with the
    Monza Grand Prix so where was Riccardo when he ruined the race?

    Acting as a cork in the bottle.

    --
    Sir Tim

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Sir Tim on Sun Sep 11 17:45:29 2022
    Sir Tim wrote:

    AnthonyL <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:52:47 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:

    On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 14:58:04 -0700, a425couple
    <[email protected]> >> wrote:

    On 09/04/2022 01:48 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the
    highlights >>>> of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or
    driver >>>> error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull
    on >>>> that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where
    the last >>>> drops out. Start at half way through the race and
    elimate the last >>>> car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".


    How many F1 races have you actually attended?


    I haven't. Telly makes more sense.

    Many fans would not be pleased when you had reduced the
    field down to only 9 cars.


    I think many fans would be pleased to see a better standard of
    racing, >> else may as well go to stock car races. Oh, don't tell me
    that F1 >> fans go for the thrills and spills and walk away
    disappointed if >> no-one has flipped over.

    Arrange it so that there should be 10 finishes. Give tenths of a
    point so that 11th gets 0.9 etc. Cut down on poor cars/poor
    drivers/poor teams have a misproportionate say in the outcome of
    the >> top ten.


    Well fortunately I wasn't around to try and waste any time with the
    Monza Grand Prix so where was Riccardo when he ruined the race?

    Acting as a cork in the bottle.

    Did he have a "misproportionate[sic] say in the outcome of the
    top ten." ;-)

    --
    Bozo Bin
    Alan Baker
    Texasgate

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  • From XYXPDQ@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 11 11:43:03 2022
    Can't believe how long it took to decide on a Safety Car.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Mon Sep 12 10:16:43 2022
    On 12/09/2022 3:00 am, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:52:47 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:

    On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 14:58:04 -0700, a425couple <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 09/04/2022 01:48 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver >>>> error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last >>>> drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".


    How many F1 races have you actually attended?


    I haven't. Telly makes more sense.

    Many fans would not be pleased when you had reduced the
    field down to only 9 cars.


    I think many fans would be pleased to see a better standard of racing,
    else may as well go to stock car races. Oh, don't tell me that F1
    fans go for the thrills and spills and walk away disappointed if
    no-one has flipped over.

    Arrange it so that there should be 10 finishes. Give tenths of a
    point so that 11th gets 0.9 etc. Cut down on poor cars/poor
    drivers/poor teams have a misproportionate say in the outcome of the
    top ten.


    Well fortunately I wasn't around to try and waste any time with the
    Monza Grand Prix so where was Riccardo when he ruined the race?



    On the side of the track.

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Matt Larkin@21:1/5 to geoff on Mon Sep 12 04:50:50 2022
    On Sunday, 11 September 2022 at 23:16:51 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
    On 12/09/2022 3:00 am, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:52:47 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:

    On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 14:58:04 -0700, a425couple <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 09/04/2022 01:48 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights >>>> of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver >>>> error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last >>>> drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".


    How many F1 races have you actually attended?


    I haven't. Telly makes more sense.

    Many fans would not be pleased when you had reduced the
    field down to only 9 cars.


    I think many fans would be pleased to see a better standard of racing,
    else may as well go to stock car races. Oh, don't tell me that F1
    fans go for the thrills and spills and walk away disappointed if
    no-one has flipped over.

    Arrange it so that there should be 10 finishes. Give tenths of a
    point so that 11th gets 0.9 etc. Cut down on poor cars/poor
    drivers/poor teams have a misproportionate say in the outcome of the
    top ten.


    Well fortunately I wasn't around to try and waste any time with the
    Monza Grand Prix so where was Riccardo when he ruined the race?


    On the side of the track.

    geoff
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track, under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little beyond me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sir Tim@21:1/5 to Matt Larkin on Mon Sep 12 17:15:25 2022
    Matt Larkin <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sunday, 11 September 2022 at 23:16:51 UTC+1, geoff wrote:
    On 12/09/2022 3:00 am, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:52:47 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:

    On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 14:58:04 -0700, a425couple <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 09/04/2022 01:48 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights >>>>>> of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver >>>>>> error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on >>>>>> that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last >>>>>> drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last >>>>>> car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".


    How many F1 races have you actually attended?


    I haven't. Telly makes more sense.

    Many fans would not be pleased when you had reduced the
    field down to only 9 cars.


    I think many fans would be pleased to see a better standard of racing, >>>> else may as well go to stock car races. Oh, don't tell me that F1
    fans go for the thrills and spills and walk away disappointed if
    no-one has flipped over.

    Arrange it so that there should be 10 finishes. Give tenths of a
    point so that 11th gets 0.9 etc. Cut down on poor cars/poor
    drivers/poor teams have a misproportionate say in the outcome of the
    top ten.


    Well fortunately I wasn't around to try and waste any time with the
    Monza Grand Prix so where was Riccardo when he ruined the race?


    On the side of the track.

    geoff
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track, under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little beyond me.


    Agree entirely - the danger car is grossly overused.

    --
    Sir Tim

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan LeHun@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 12 22:27:51 2022
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]d
    says...
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track, under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little beyond me.


    Agree entirely - the danger car is grossly overused.


    I think the death of Jules Bianchi has a lot to do with it.

    One death in F1 since 1994 and it involved an off track car crashing
    earlier. Yes, big differences in circumstances (recovery truck present,
    weather conditions etc), but you have to be seen to be doing something.

    VSC came as a result of that accident too.


    --
    Alan LeHun

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Matt Larkin@21:1/5 to Alan LeHun on Tue Sep 13 01:09:52 2022
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 22:27:54 UTC+1, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]d
    says...
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track, under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little beyond me.


    Agree entirely - the danger car is grossly overused.

    I think the death of Jules Bianchi has a lot to do with it.

    One death in F1 since 1994 and it involved an off track car crashing
    earlier. Yes, big differences in circumstances (recovery truck present, weather conditions etc), but you have to be seen to be doing something.

    VSC came as a result of that accident too.


    --
    Alan LeHun
    Yes, agreed and the lessons from Bianchi's death were significant and
    shouldn't be overlooked.

    But on a dry track, on a zone that isn't in a run off area, in great visibility,
    supported by appropriately marshalled flags etc?

    The Bianchi incident was about a car hitting a recovery vehicle in soaking
    wet conditions with poor visbility in a run off area. Still a freak accident, but definitely factors there which could be foreseeable.

    Has anyone ever crashed into the barriers between lesmo 1 and 2 without
    being part of an active overtake?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Matt Larkin@21:1/5 to Matt Larkin on Tue Sep 13 01:16:55 2022
    On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 09:09:54 UTC+1, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 22:27:54 UTC+1, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]d
    says...
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track, under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little beyond me.


    Agree entirely - the danger car is grossly overused.

    I think the death of Jules Bianchi has a lot to do with it.

    One death in F1 since 1994 and it involved an off track car crashing earlier. Yes, big differences in circumstances (recovery truck present, weather conditions etc), but you have to be seen to be doing something.

    VSC came as a result of that accident too.


    --
    Alan LeHun
    Yes, agreed and the lessons from Bianchi's death were significant and shouldn't be overlooked.

    But on a dry track, on a zone that isn't in a run off area, in great visibility,
    supported by appropriately marshalled flags etc?

    The Bianchi incident was about a car hitting a recovery vehicle in soaking wet conditions with poor visbility in a run off area. Still a freak accident, but definitely factors there which could be foreseeable.

    Has anyone ever crashed into the barriers between lesmo 1 and 2 without
    being part of an active overtake?
    I know this is a sim model, but I suppose this is the sort of crash they are mitigating

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxrMWVtjNUA&ab_channel=MarcusRacing

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  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Matt Larkin on Tue Sep 13 01:25:23 2022
    On 2022-09-13 01:16, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 09:09:54 UTC+1, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 22:27:54 UTC+1, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]d
    says...
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track, under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little beyond me. >>>>>

    Agree entirely - the danger car is grossly overused.

    I think the death of Jules Bianchi has a lot to do with it.

    One death in F1 since 1994 and it involved an off track car crashing
    earlier. Yes, big differences in circumstances (recovery truck present,
    weather conditions etc), but you have to be seen to be doing something.

    VSC came as a result of that accident too.


    --
    Alan LeHun
    Yes, agreed and the lessons from Bianchi's death were significant and
    shouldn't be overlooked.

    But on a dry track, on a zone that isn't in a run off area, in great visibility,
    supported by appropriately marshalled flags etc?

    The Bianchi incident was about a car hitting a recovery vehicle in soaking >> wet conditions with poor visbility in a run off area. Still a freak accident,
    but definitely factors there which could be foreseeable.

    Has anyone ever crashed into the barriers between lesmo 1 and 2 without
    being part of an active overtake?
    I know this is a sim model, but I suppose this is the sort of crash they are mitigating

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxrMWVtjNUA&ab_channel=MarcusRacing

    That's a pretty classic sort of crash, yeah.

    Drop one or two wheels off onto a lower traction surface...

    ...the car oversteers and slows (a little)...

    ...and when the car hooks up again, it launches to the INSIDE of the corner.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to Matt Larkin on Tue Sep 13 21:05:16 2022
    On 13/09/2022 8:09 pm, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 22:27:54 UTC+1, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]d
    says...
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track, under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little beyond me. >>>>

    Agree entirely - the danger car is grossly overused.

    I think the death of Jules Bianchi has a lot to do with it.

    One death in F1 since 1994 and it involved an off track car crashing
    earlier. Yes, big differences in circumstances (recovery truck present,
    weather conditions etc), but you have to be seen to be doing something.

    VSC came as a result of that accident too.


    --
    Alan LeHun
    Yes, agreed and the lessons from Bianchi's death were significant and shouldn't be overlooked.

    But on a dry track, on a zone that isn't in a run off area, in great visibility,
    supported by appropriately marshalled flags etc?

    On a straight where cars wanting to attempt overtakes ...

    The Bianchi incident was about a car hitting a recovery vehicle in soaking wet conditions with poor visbility in a run off area. Still a freak accident,
    but definitely factors there which could be foreseeable.

    Has anyone ever crashed into the barriers between lesmo 1 and 2 without
    being part of an active overtake?

    Like I said.

    Should have been immediate Red Flag, then finish the race properly.

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to geoff on Wed Sep 14 10:08:52 2022
    On 2022-09-13 02:05, geoff wrote:
    On 13/09/2022 8:09 pm, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 22:27:54 UTC+1, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]d
    says...
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track,
    under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little
    beyond me.


    Agree entirely - the danger car is grossly overused.

    I think the death of Jules Bianchi has a lot to do with it.

    One death in F1 since 1994 and it involved an off track car crashing
    earlier. Yes, big differences in circumstances (recovery truck present,
    weather conditions etc), but you have to be seen to be doing something.

    VSC came as a result of that accident too.


    --
    Alan LeHun
    Yes, agreed and the lessons from Bianchi's death were significant and
    shouldn't be overlooked.

    But on a dry track, on a zone that isn't in a run off area, in great
    visibility,
    supported by appropriately marshalled flags etc?

    On a straight where cars wanting to attempt overtakes ...

    The Bianchi incident was about a car hitting a recovery vehicle in
    soaking
    wet conditions with poor visbility in a run off area.  Still a freak
    accident,
    but definitely factors there which could be foreseeable.

    Has anyone ever crashed into the barriers between lesmo 1 and 2 without
    being part of an active overtake?

    Like I said.

    Should have been immediate Red Flag, then finish the race properly.

    geoff



    If you have to deploy a safety car...

    ...which is going to bunch the field and negate any advantage gained by
    the leaders...

    ...then it seems more and more tenable to just use a red flag instead...

    ...as it does the exact same thing.

    Red flag it, everyone gets to put on new tires...

    ...then restart when the track is clear.

    In a lot of situations, it would actually result in less actual time
    spent before racing resumes, as the safety crew can begin working
    without having to wait for the field to bunch up behind the safety car.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Sep 14 18:02:37 2022
    On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:25:27 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

    That's a pretty classic sort of crash, yeah.

    you are a classic fucking moron, yeah

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Matt Larkin@21:1/5 to Alan on Fri Sep 16 01:33:14 2022
    On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 09:25:27 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-09-13 01:16, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 09:09:54 UTC+1, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 22:27:54 UTC+1, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]d
    says...
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track, under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little beyond me.


    Agree entirely - the danger car is grossly overused.

    I think the death of Jules Bianchi has a lot to do with it.

    One death in F1 since 1994 and it involved an off track car crashing
    earlier. Yes, big differences in circumstances (recovery truck present, >>> weather conditions etc), but you have to be seen to be doing something. >>>
    VSC came as a result of that accident too.


    --
    Alan LeHun
    Yes, agreed and the lessons from Bianchi's death were significant and
    shouldn't be overlooked.

    But on a dry track, on a zone that isn't in a run off area, in great visibility,
    supported by appropriately marshalled flags etc?

    The Bianchi incident was about a car hitting a recovery vehicle in soaking >> wet conditions with poor visbility in a run off area. Still a freak accident,
    but definitely factors there which could be foreseeable.

    Has anyone ever crashed into the barriers between lesmo 1 and 2 without
    being part of an active overtake?
    I know this is a sim model, but I suppose this is the sort of crash they are
    mitigating

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxrMWVtjNUA&ab_channel=MarcusRacing
    That's a pretty classic sort of crash, yeah.

    Drop one or two wheels off onto a lower traction surface...

    ...the car oversteers and slows (a little)...

    ...and when the car hooks up again, it launches to the INSIDE of the corner.
    At racing speed, yes. But if there were waved yellows before the
    corner, only the most idiotic F1 pilot should be having that sort of crash surely?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Sep 16 02:16:53 2022
    On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 2:33:16 AM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:

    At racing speed, yes. But if there were waved yellows before the
    corner, only the most idiotic F1 pilot should be having that sort of crash surely?

    you are trolling the biggest anti racer on the planet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Matt Larkin on Fri Sep 16 16:44:12 2022
    On 2022-09-16 01:33, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 09:25:27 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-09-13 01:16, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 09:09:54 UTC+1, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 12 September 2022 at 22:27:54 UTC+1, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]d
    says...
    Why we can't trust the best drivers in the world, on a dry track, under (say) waved yellows
    to pass a stationary car by the side of the track is a little beyond me.


    Agree entirely - the danger car is grossly overused.

    I think the death of Jules Bianchi has a lot to do with it.

    One death in F1 since 1994 and it involved an off track car crashing >>>>> earlier. Yes, big differences in circumstances (recovery truck present, >>>>> weather conditions etc), but you have to be seen to be doing something. >>>>>
    VSC came as a result of that accident too.


    --
    Alan LeHun
    Yes, agreed and the lessons from Bianchi's death were significant and
    shouldn't be overlooked.

    But on a dry track, on a zone that isn't in a run off area, in great visibility,
    supported by appropriately marshalled flags etc?

    The Bianchi incident was about a car hitting a recovery vehicle in soaking >>>> wet conditions with poor visbility in a run off area. Still a freak accident,
    but definitely factors there which could be foreseeable.

    Has anyone ever crashed into the barriers between lesmo 1 and 2 without >>>> being part of an active overtake?
    I know this is a sim model, but I suppose this is the sort of crash they are
    mitigating

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxrMWVtjNUA&ab_channel=MarcusRacing
    That's a pretty classic sort of crash, yeah.

    Drop one or two wheels off onto a lower traction surface...

    ...the car oversteers and slows (a little)...

    ...and when the car hooks up again, it launches to the INSIDE of the corner.
    At racing speed, yes. But if there were waved yellows before the
    corner, only the most idiotic F1 pilot should be having that sort of crash surely?

    Is it unlikely? Sure.

    But:

    1. They don't slow all that much for waved yellows. So the car still
    COULD snap.

    2. Moments when you let off are also moments when drivers sometimes lose
    focus. Witness the famous Senna crash when leading easily at the Monaco
    GP. His team told him to take it easy and he almost immediately screwed
    it up into a wall

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Fri Sep 16 17:33:41 2022
    On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 5:44:15 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

    Is it unlikely? Sure.

    But:

    fuck you
    you fucking cunt
    FOAD

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Fri Sep 16 17:36:05 2022
    On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 5:44:15 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

    Is it unlikely? Sure.

    But:

    what about the cookies?
    you useless fucking cock sucker

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Sat Sep 17 21:09:40 2022
    On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 5:44:15 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-09-16 01:33, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Tuesday, 13 September 2022 at 09:25:27 UTC+1, Alan wrote:

    almost immediately

    so its partial immediately?
    you dim cunt

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Sat Sep 17 20:55:20 2022
    On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 5:44:15 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

    almost immediately

    lol

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 9 10:13:52 2022
    On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 10:10:54 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:



    Singapore - and so the soap opera drama continues:

    <quote bbc>

    Even Verstappen asked: "Are you sure?" when he was told he was
    champion, reflecting the historical precedent that reduced points are
    awarded in such circumstances.

    But it seems that this protocol was inadvertently left out of the
    rules when they were rewritten over last winter following the
    controversial Belgian Grand Prix, when a result was declared despite
    no racing taking place.

    </quote>

    Can't the FIA afford professionals?



    Oh, and the tractor:

    <quote>
    Alex Wurz, the chairman of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association, said:
    "We need to discuss a tractor on track... We can keep it short: this
    must not happen, guys."
    </quote>


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 9 10:10:54 2022
    On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 20:48:49 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:

    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the highlights
    of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or driver
    error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the last
    drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the last
    car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".

    Well done George on the call for softs, why didn't HAM/his team do the
    same when it seemed so appropriate.

    Alternativatly have a chance pack of cards and after qualifying the
    cards are turned over one by one, eg car 4 hits car 5, or car 8 spins.

    Oh and Ferrari. How many mistakes can you make in one race (after a
    series of errors every race for the past few seasons) and still keep
    your job. Knackers yard for the crippled horse.

    I might look in again next season to see if anything has improved.




    Singapore - and so the soap opera drama continues:

    <quote bbc>

    Even Verstappen asked: "Are you sure?" when he was told he was
    champion, reflecting the historical precedent that reduced points are
    awarded in such circumstances.

    But it seems that this protocol was inadvertently left out of the
    rules when they were rewritten over last winter following the
    controversial Belgian Grand Prix, when a result was declared despite
    no racing taking place.

    </quote>

    Can't the FIA afford professionals?

    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Sun Oct 9 15:25:31 2022
    AnthonyL wrote:

    On Sun, 09 Oct 2022 10:10:54 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:



    Singapore - and so the soap opera drama continues:

    <quote bbc>

    Even Verstappen asked: "Are you sure?" when he was told he was
    champion, reflecting the historical precedent that reduced points
    are awarded in such circumstances.

    But it seems that this protocol was inadvertently left out of the
    rules when they were rewritten over last winter following the
    controversial Belgian Grand Prix, when a result was declared despite
    no racing taking place.

    </quote>

    Can't the FIA afford professionals?



    Oh, and the tractor:

    <quote>
    Alex Wurz, the chairman of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association, said:
    "We need to discuss a tractor on track... We can keep it short: this
    must not happen, guys."
    </quote>

    Gasly demonstrated that drivers have not learnt the lessons; the FIA
    need to demonstrate that they have.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Sun Oct 9 15:22:55 2022
    AnthonyL wrote:

    On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 20:48:49 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:

    After the farce of last season I had given up on watch the
    highlights of F1.

    I made the mistake of settling down to watch today's, having
    studiously avoided getting to know the result.

    How many races a season are determined by mechanical failure or
    driver error of the lower teams?

    Alpha Tauri should be ashamed of themselves (well done Red Bull on
    that play).

    Perhaps take a leaf out of the Elimination Bicycle race where the
    last drops out. Start at half way through the race and elimate the
    last car every 4 laps getting rid of the "rubbish".

    Well done George on the call for softs, why didn't HAM/his team do
    the same when it seemed so appropriate.

    Alternativatly have a chance pack of cards and after qualifying the
    cards are turned over one by one, eg car 4 hits car 5, or car 8
    spins.

    Oh and Ferrari. How many mistakes can you make in one race (after a
    series of errors every race for the past few seasons) and still keep
    your job. Knackers yard for the crippled horse.

    I might look in again next season to see if anything has improved.




    Singapore - and so the soap opera drama continues:

    <quote bbc>

    Even Verstappen asked: "Are you sure?" when he was told he was
    champion, reflecting the historical precedent that reduced points are
    awarded in such circumstances.

    But it seems that this protocol was inadvertently left out of the
    rules when they were rewritten over last winter following the
    controversial Belgian Grand Prix, when a result was declared despite
    no racing taking place.

    </quote>

    Can't the FIA afford professionals?

    Professionals yes; experts? it's not that kind of club.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sir Tim@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Sun Oct 9 15:26:14 2022
    AnthonyL <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 20:48:49 GMT, [email protected]d (AnthonyL)
    wrote:

    Can't the FIA afford professionals?

    Obviously not. There have been far too many dubious rulings over the last couple of years.



    --
    Sir Tim

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)