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  • And the truth be told

    From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 8 19:17:44 2023
    “So, check this out. First and foremost, I did not apologize for having an opinion on this matter,” he continued. “Now, if my opinion offended somebody, yeah, sure. I apologize for you being offended because that wasn’t my intention. My intention
    is never to offend anybody. However, I’m entitled to feel how I feel. I’m absolutely entitled to feel how I feel the same way you are entitled to feel how you feel.”

    “I ain’t asked nobody to follow me; I ain’t asked nobody to agree with me,” he continued. “I was asked a question and I answered the damn question, okay? I have no beef with the LBGTQIA+ community whatsoever. I got no beef with y’all; do
    whatever the hell it is you want to do. Do what you want to do with your kids. However, somebody asked my opinion on this matter, and this is how I feel. I will never be okay with allowing a child to make a decision that detrimental to their life. I will
    never be okay with that.”

    Ne-Yo insists that he is not worried about getting canceled for his beliefs. “And I ain’t got no problem with that,” he said. “I’m a hustler, all right, and I’ll figure it out. I got kids to raise, and I’m gonna do that regardless.”

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Aug 9 09:43:14 2023
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 9 10:00:19 2023
    On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?

    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere Smith
    would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 9 09:42:37 2023
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:00:23 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?
    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere Smith would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera

    What is so frikkin 'open-minded' about destroying children? about rendering them infertile? About not letting them grow up into adults
    before making adult decisions greatly affecting the remainder of their lives?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Wed Aug 9 10:09:08 2023
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 9:42:39 AM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:00:23 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?
    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere Smith would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera
    What is so frikkin 'open-minded'

    That's what pedophiles argue too.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Wed Aug 9 12:41:41 2023
    On 8/9/23 11:42 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:00:23 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?
    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere
    Smith would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera

    What is so frikkin 'open-minded' about destroying children? about
    rendering them infertile? About not letting them grow up into adults
    before making adult decisions greatly affecting the remainder of
    their lives?

    No one's "destroying children." Treatment is age-appropriate and aims to
    get them to adulthood when they can make bigger decisions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 9 10:55:12 2023
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 10:41:44 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 11:42 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:00:23 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?
    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere
    Smith would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera

    What is so frikkin 'open-minded' about destroying children? about rendering them infertile? About not letting them grow up into adults before making adult decisions greatly affecting the remainder of
    their lives?
    No one's "destroying children." Treatment is age-appropriate and aims to
    get them to adulthood when they can make bigger decisions.

    Adulthood hasn't helped you in decision making.

    Puberty blockers aren't without lifelong consequences.

    ScottW




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 11 13:40:37 2023
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 1:41:44 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 11:42 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:00:23 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?
    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere
    Smith would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera

    What is so frikkin 'open-minded' about destroying children? about rendering them infertile? About not letting them grow up into adults before making adult decisions greatly affecting the remainder of
    their lives?
    No one's "destroying children." Treatment is age-appropriate and aims to
    get them to adulthood when they can make bigger decisions.

    That is a BIG lie
    Surgeries are done on children
    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fascist Flea@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 11 13:55:24 2023
    Sackdork drifts in and out of consciousness.

    No one's "destroying children." Treatment is age-appropriate and aims to get them to adulthood when they can make bigger decisions.
    That is a BIG lie
    Surgeries are done on children

    Your fantasies don't count.

    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens.

    Yes, Doctor. You and "God" are the ultimate authority.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Fri Aug 11 18:40:59 2023
    On 8/11/23 3:40 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 1:41:44 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 11:42 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:00:23 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?
    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere
    Smith would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera

    What is so frikkin 'open-minded' about destroying children? about
    rendering them infertile? About not letting them grow up into adults
    before making adult decisions greatly affecting the remainder of
    their lives?
    No one's "destroying children." Treatment is age-appropriate and aims to
    get them to adulthood when they can make bigger decisions.

    That is a BIG lie
    Surgeries are done on children

    Very rarely and mostly on infants to correct intersex conditions. This
    last is increasingly controversial because it's nonconsensual.

    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens.

    Nah, they're fine under medical supervision. Logically, forcing a
    trangender child to undergo puberty is an unwanted sex change.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fascist Flea@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 11 16:55:28 2023
    mINE109 wrote:

    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens.
    Nah, they're fine under medical supervision. Logically, forcing a
    trangender child to undergo puberty is an unwanted sex change.

    Except that it interferes with the will of "god". Are you looking to get
    turned into a pillar of salt?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Fascist Flea on Fri Aug 11 19:17:12 2023
    On 8/11/23 6:55 PM, Fascist Flea wrote:
    mINE109 wrote:

    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens.
    Nah, they're fine under medical supervision. Logically, forcing a
    trangender child to undergo puberty is an unwanted sex change.

    Except that it interferes with the will of "god". Are you looking to get turned into a pillar of salt?

    Cue Art posting a "Margaritaville" video.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Fri Aug 11 19:58:28 2023
    On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:40:39 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 1:41:44 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 11:42 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:00:23 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?
    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere
    Smith would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera

    What is so frikkin 'open-minded' about destroying children? about rendering them infertile? About not letting them grow up into adults before making adult decisions greatly affecting the remainder of
    their lives?
    No one's "destroying children." Treatment is age-appropriate and aims to get them to adulthood when they can make bigger decisions.
    That is a BIG lie
    Surgeries are done on children
    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens.

    Between 13 and 17, Cole began taking puberty-blocking drugs, received off-label sex hormone treatments, and received a double mastectomy, in which both of her breasts were completely removed.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/transgender-child-suing-doctors-mutilated-malpractice

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 12 12:27:18 2023
    On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:41:02 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/11/23 3:40 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 1:41:44 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 11:42 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:00:23 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?
    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere
    Smith would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera

    What is so frikkin 'open-minded' about destroying children? about
    rendering them infertile? About not letting them grow up into adults
    before making adult decisions greatly affecting the remainder of
    their lives?
    No one's "destroying children." Treatment is age-appropriate and aims to >> get them to adulthood when they can make bigger decisions.

    That is a BIG lie
    Surgeries are done on children
    Very rarely and mostly on infants to correct intersex conditions. This
    last is increasingly controversial because it's nonconsensual.
    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens.
    Nah, they're fine under medical supervision. Logically, forcing a
    trangender child to undergo puberty is an unwanted sex change.

    You fucking moron!!!!!
    Its not a "sex change".
    Its the sex they are born as and the sex
    that is determined by their DNA.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Sat Aug 12 16:24:37 2023
    On 8/12/23 2:27 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:41:02 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/11/23 3:40 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 1:41:44 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/9/23 11:42 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 11:00:23 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote: >>>>>> On 8/9/23 9:43 AM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/8/23 9:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    Ne-Yo
    Who's that?
    Found him. You'd think someone whose real name is Shaffer Chimere
    Smith would be more open-minded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera

    What is so frikkin 'open-minded' about destroying children? about
    rendering them infertile? About not letting them grow up into adults >>>>> before making adult decisions greatly affecting the remainder of
    their lives?
    No one's "destroying children." Treatment is age-appropriate and aims to >>>> get them to adulthood when they can make bigger decisions.

    That is a BIG lie
    Surgeries are done on children
    Very rarely and mostly on infants to correct intersex conditions. This
    last is increasingly controversial because it's nonconsensual.
    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens.
    Nah, they're fine under medical supervision. Logically, forcing a
    trangender child to undergo puberty is an unwanted sex change.

    You fucking moron!!!!!
    Its not a "sex change".
    Its the sex they are born as and the sex
    that is determined by their DNA.

    If you're forced to become the "wrong" gender, that's a sex change.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/

    A 2020 study of 300 gender-incongruent young people found that mental distress—including self-harm, suicidal thoughts and depression—increased
    as the children were made to proceed with puberty according to their
    assigned sex. By the time 184 older teens (with a median age of 16)
    reached the stage in which transgender boys began their periods and grew breasts and transgender girls’ voice dropped and facial hair began to
    appear, 46 percent had been diagnosed with depression, 40 percent had self-harmed, 52 percent had considered suicide, and 17 percent had
    attempted it—rates significantly higher than those of gender-incongruent children who were a median of 13.9 years old or of cisgender kids their
    own age.

    Conversely, access to gender-affirming hormones in adolescence appears
    to have a protective effect. In one study, researchers followed 104
    teens and young adults for a year and asked them about their depression, anxiety and suicidality at the time they started receiving hormones or
    puberty blockers and again at the three-month, six-month and one-year mark

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 12 16:51:28 2023
    On 8/12/23 4:24 PM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/12/23 2:27 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens.
    Nah, they're fine under medical supervision. Logically, forcing a
    trangender child to undergo puberty is an unwanted sex change.

    Its not a "sex change".
    Its the sex they are born as and the sex
    that is determined by their DNA.

    If you're forced to become the "wrong" gender, that's a sex change.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/

    A 2020 study of 300 gender-incongruent young people found that mental distress—including self-harm, suicidal thoughts and depression—increased as the children were made to proceed with puberty according to their
    assigned sex...

    Conversely, access to gender-affirming hormones in adolescence appears
    to have a protective effect. In one study, researchers followed 104
    teens and young adults for a year and asked them about their depression, anxiety and suicidality at the time they started receiving hormones or puberty blockers and again at the three-month, six-month and one-year mark

    And that study:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423

    Findings In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20
    years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of
    moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a
    12-month follow-up.

    Meaning This study found that access to gender-affirming care was
    associated with mitigation of mental health disparities among TNB youths
    over 1 year; given this population's high rates of adverse mental health outcomes, these data suggest that access to pharmacological
    interventions may be associated with improved mental health among TNB
    youths over a short period.

    End quote.

    Gonna go with the science, especially when it's kinder.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 12 16:27:52 2023
    On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 2:51:32 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/12/23 4:24 PM, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/12/23 2:27 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    and hormone blockers are NOT age appropriate for children and teens. >>> Nah, they're fine under medical supervision. Logically, forcing a
    trangender child to undergo puberty is an unwanted sex change.
    Its not a "sex change".
    Its the sex they are born as and the sex
    that is determined by their DNA.

    If you're forced to become the "wrong" gender, that's a sex change.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/

    A 2020 study of 300 gender-incongruent young people found that mental distress—including self-harm, suicidal thoughts and depression—increased
    as the children were made to proceed with puberty according to their assigned sex...
    Conversely, access to gender-affirming hormones in adolescence appears
    to have a protective effect. In one study, researchers followed 104
    teens and young adults for a year and asked them about their depression, anxiety and suicidality at the time they started receiving hormones or puberty blockers and again at the three-month, six-month and one-year mark
    And that study:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423

    Findings In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20
    years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of
    moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a 12-month follow-up.

    Meaning This study found that access to gender-affirming care was
    associated with mitigation of mental health disparities among TNB youths over 1 year; given this population's high rates of adverse mental health outcomes, these data suggest that access to pharmacological
    interventions may be associated with improved mental health among TNB
    youths over a short period.

    End quote.

    Gonna go with the science, especially when it's kinder.

    No long term outcomes.
    Ask them after they reach adulthood if they're happy being unable to
    ever conceive a child or even experience a natural orgasm.
    You'll have to wait to till their about 40 years of age as they wake up, look around
    and realize their social media status was always a mirage and the only thing that really matters and lasts is family. Family they can never really have. That's when the real depression hits home....and hits hard.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Sat Aug 12 18:47:58 2023
    On 8/12/23 6:27 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 2:51:32 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423

    Findings In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20
    years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and
    gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of
    moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a
    12-month follow-up.

    Meaning This study found that access to gender-affirming care was
    associated with mitigation of mental health disparities among TNB youths
    over 1 year; given this population's high rates of adverse mental health
    outcomes, these data suggest that access to pharmacological
    interventions may be associated with improved mental health among TNB
    youths over a short period.

    End quote.

    Gonna go with the science, especially when it's kinder.

    No long term outcomes.

    Try this one:

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039

    Ask them after they reach adulthood if they're happy being unable to
    ever conceive a child or even experience a natural orgasm.

    That word "natural" means you can reject any reply and some trans choose
    to conceive children "naturally."

    You'll have to wait to till their about 40 years of age as they wake up, look around
    and realize their social media status was always a mirage and the only thing that really matters and lasts is family. Family they can never really have. That's when the real depression hits home....and hits hard.

    From the cite:

    Objective

    To examine associations between recalled access to gender-affirming
    hormones (GAH) during adolescence and mental health outcomes among
    transgender adults in the U.S.

    Results

    21,598 participants (77.9%) reported ever desiring GAH. Of these, 8,860
    (41.0%) never accessed GAH, 119 (0.6%) accessed GAH in early
    adolescence, 362 (1.7%) accessed GAH in late adolescence, and 12,257
    (56.8%) accessed GAH in adulthood. After adjusting for potential
    confounders, accessing GAH during early adolescence (aOR = 0.4, 95% CI = 0.2–0.6, p < .0001), late adolescence (aOR = 0.5, 95% CI = 0.4–0.7, p < .0001), or adulthood (aOR = 0.8, 95% CI = 0.7–0.8, p < .0001) was
    associated with lower odds of past-year suicidal ideation when compared
    to desiring but never accessing GAH. In post hoc analyses, access to GAH
    during adolescence (ages 14–17) was associated with lower odds of
    past-year suicidal ideation (aOR = 0.7, 95% CI = 0.6–0.9, p = .0007)
    when compared to accessing GAH during adulthood.

    Conclusion

    Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with
    favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

    End quote.

    I'll take the science over your fantasy.

    Also (same study, easier read):

    https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/01/mental-health-hormone-treatment-transgender-people.html

    Different study:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35452119/

    Discussion: Our results suggest that >70% of TGD individuals who start gender-affirming hormones will continue use beyond 4 years, with higher continuation rates in transfeminine individuals. Patients who start
    hormones, with their parents' assistance, before age 18 years have
    higher continuation rates than adults.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 12 17:32:39 2023
    On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 4:48:03 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/12/23 6:27 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 2:51:32 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423

    Findings In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20
    years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and >> gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of
    moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a
    12-month follow-up.

    Meaning This study found that access to gender-affirming care was
    associated with mitigation of mental health disparities among TNB youths >> over 1 year; given this population's high rates of adverse mental health >> outcomes, these data suggest that access to pharmacological
    interventions may be associated with improved mental health among TNB
    youths over a short period.

    End quote.

    Gonna go with the science, especially when it's kinder.

    No long term outcomes.
    Try this one:

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039

    One unexpected finding was that participants who initiated GAH during adulthood, compared to those who desired but never accessed GAH, had greater odds of past-month binge drinking and lifetime illicit substance use.

    and here's the kicker.

    Limitations include its non-probability cross-sectional design, which reduces generalizability and limits determination of causality. It is possible that people with better mental health status at baseline are more likely to be able to access GAH, thus
    confounding associations between GAH access and adult mental health outcomes measured: we therefore examined lifetime but no past-year suicidal ideation as an outcome, with results suggesting a lack of reverse causation due to such confounding.
    Nonetheless, this method is imperfect for investigating mental health changes following GAH, and future longitudinal studies are needed.

    So people who had access to GAH also likely had access to other mental health therapy which may or may not have contributed to their improved outcomes.

    And then you have confirmation bias....ie people who had GAH need to believe it was worth it....and respond accordingly.
    Not hard to know the right answer is "No I don't want to kill myself".....yet

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)