• Re: EVs damage roads twice as fast

    From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to ScottW on Tue Jun 27 21:57:26 2023
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW

    With the additional weight of EV's, do they require a special class of tires?

    If EV's use standard passenger car tires, wouldn't the tires wear out at a much faster rate?

    And what would that difference be?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 27 21:43:32 2023
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Wed Jun 28 10:03:34 2023
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw


    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    A claim not made in your cite.

    With the additional weight of EV's, do they require a special class
    of tires?

    If EV's use standard passenger car tires, wouldn't the tires wear out
    at a much faster rate?

    And what would that difference be?

    That's "tyres" as the piece is from the widely-respected (NOT!)
    Telegraph UK.

    The complaint is cars weighing more than "two tonnes," or 4,400 lbs. The average for cars in the US is just over 4,000 lbs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Jun 28 09:56:21 2023
    On 6/27/23 11:43 PM, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    Where was this concern when ICE pickup trucks and SUVs became sales leaders?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Wed Jun 28 08:33:20 2023
    On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 9:57:27 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    With the additional weight of EV's, do they require a special class of tires?

    If EV's use standard passenger car tires, wouldn't the tires wear out at a much faster rate?

    Yes they do.


    And what would that difference be?

    Remains to be seen. Eventually I suspect it will shake out as needing more tire to get the same life.
    So the tire life is the same....but you've got a bigger tire with a lot more rubber.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 28 08:35:30 2023
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 8:03:37 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw


    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.

    Ever looked at the carbon footprint of asphalt and concrete?
    And that recent news on low carbon concrete is for bricks....not poured concrete.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 28 08:59:09 2023
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:03:37 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw


    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.

    You are suffering a Biden moment.
    I didn't make that cite, Scott did.


    With the additional weight of EV's, do they require a special class
    of tires?

    If EV's use standard passenger car tires, wouldn't the tires wear out
    at a much faster rate?

    And what would that difference be?
    That's "tyres" as the piece is from the widely-respected (NOT!)
    Telegraph UK.


    answer the question, stop your incessant semantic quibblings

    The complaint is cars weighing more than "two tonnes," or 4,400 lbs. The average for cars in the US is just over 4,000 lbs.

    A Camry, pretty average, is 3200 to 3.750 pounds, depending on options

    The weight of a Toyota Camry can vary depending on the model. The Camry LE, for example, weighs in at 3,240 pounds, while the Camry SE and XLE weigh in at 3,380 pounds.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Jun 28 09:02:15 2023
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:33:21 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 9:57:27 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    With the additional weight of EV's, do they require a special class of tires?

    If EV's use standard passenger car tires, wouldn't the tires wear out at a much faster rate?
    Yes they do.

    And what would that difference be?
    Remains to be seen. Eventually I suspect it will shake out as needing more tire to get the same life.
    So the tire life is the same....but you've got a bigger tire with a lot more rubber.

    ScottW

    a good answer that gets to the point, you have shown us "where
    the rubber meets the road", so to speak.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Wed Jun 28 11:14:01 2023
    On 6/28/23 10:59 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:03:37 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw



    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....
    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.

    You are suffering a Biden moment. I didn't make that cite, Scott
    did.

    Count the check marks and you'll see to whom I replied.

    With the additional weight of EV's, do they require a special
    class of tires?

    If EV's use standard passenger car tires, wouldn't the tires wear
    out at a much faster rate?

    And what would that difference be?
    That's "tyres" as the piece is from the widely-respected (NOT!)
    Telegraph UK.

    answer the question, stop your incessant semantic quibblings

    That's a question for Scott but this mentions potholes, but not car weight:

    https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/maintenance/how-long-a-tire-lasts/

    The complaint is cars weighing more than "two tonnes," or 4,400
    lbs. The average for cars in the US is just over 4,000 lbs.

    A Camry, pretty average, is 3200 to 3.750 pounds, depending on
    options

    That would be nine to four hundred pounds below average.

    The weight of a Toyota Camry can vary depending on the model. The
    Camry LE, for example, weighs in at 3,240 pounds, while the Camry SE
    and XLE weigh in at 3,380 pounds.

    An "average car" is not the same thing as "the average car." As gotchas,
    go, exceptionally weak.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Jun 28 11:32:20 2023
    On 6/28/23 10:35 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 8:03:37 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw


    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.

    Ever looked at the carbon footprint of asphalt and concrete?

    Where in your cite is that information?

    And that recent news on low carbon concrete is for bricks....not poured concrete.


    That may be true for whatever recent news you may have seen, but not for
    all lower carbon concrete.

    https://www.carboncure.com/concrete-corner/a-complete-guide-to-low-carbon-concrete/

    I guess the photo shows them pouring a different low carbon concrete.

    https://go.carboncure.com/rs/328-NGP-286/images/CC_CaseStudy-Lauren-3pg.pdf

    Once CarbonCure was installed at Lauren’s pilot plant, the team tested
    its standard 3000, 4000, and 5000 psi mixes for various use cases. Approximately half of Lauren’s concrete volume is poured on residential projects, with 30-35% going to heavy commercial projects.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chuck@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jun 28 13:58:33 2023
    On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 08:59:09 -0700 (PDT), Art Sackman <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:03:37?AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34?AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw


    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.

    You are suffering a Biden moment.
    I didn't make that cite, Scott did.


    With the additional weight of EV's, do they require a special class
    of tires?

    If EV's use standard passenger car tires, wouldn't the tires wear out
    at a much faster rate?

    And what would that difference be?
    That's "tyres" as the piece is from the widely-respected (NOT!)
    Telegraph UK.


    answer the question, stop your incessant semantic quibblings

    The complaint is cars weighing more than "two tonnes," or 4,400 lbs. The
    average for cars in the US is just over 4,000 lbs.

    A Camry, pretty average, is 3200 to 3.750 pounds, depending on options

    The weight of a Toyota Camry can vary depending on the model. The Camry LE, for example, weighs in at 3,240 pounds, while the Camry SE and XLE weigh in at 3,380 pounds.

    My Chevy Bolt weighs 3563 lbs so pretty much the same as an ICE Camry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Trevor Wilson@21:1/5 to ScottW on Thu Jun 29 06:49:17 2023
    On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW

    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 28 13:53:26 2023
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:14:04 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/28/23 10:59 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:03:37 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw



    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....
    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.

    You are suffering a Biden moment. I didn't make that cite, Scott
    did.
    Count the check marks and you'll see to whom I replied.
    With the additional weight of EV's, do they require a special
    class of tires?

    If EV's use standard passenger car tires, wouldn't the tires wear
    out at a much faster rate?

    And what would that difference be?
    That's "tyres" as the piece is from the widely-respected (NOT!)
    Telegraph UK.

    answer the question, stop your incessant semantic quibblings
    That's a question for Scott but this mentions potholes, but not car weight:

    https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/maintenance/how-long-a-tire-lasts/
    The complaint is cars weighing more than "two tonnes," or 4,400
    lbs. The average for cars in the US is just over 4,000 lbs.

    A Camry, pretty average, is 3200 to 3.750 pounds, depending on
    options
    That would be nine to four hundred pounds below average.




    The weight of a Toyota Camry can vary depending on the model. The
    Camry LE, for example, weighs in at 3,240 pounds, while the Camry SE
    and XLE weigh in at 3,380 pounds.
    An "average car" is not the same thing as "the average car." As gotchas,
    go, exceptionally weak.

    you are so FULL OF SHIT

    you still claim 4000 lbs is average car.
    What cars are 4000 lbs or greater?
    give me a list. You might find a few, but they would not be big sellers,

    Here are the big sellers

    https://www.edmunds.com/most-popular-cars/

    The car I mentioned, the Camry happens to be the second biggest seller.
    You will note that many on that list are TRUCKS. They don't count as cars, because what we are comparing are ICE cars vs EV cars.
    Five of the ten nest sellers are trucks, one is an EV car.
    Four are ICE cars.

    The average wight of a RAV4, an SUV (I will count that as a car) is 3700 lbs. The average weight of a Corolla is 2,800 lbs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to Trevor Wilson on Wed Jun 28 13:54:50 2023
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-4, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.


    EV cars emit CO2, remotely, of course, when charging.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Wed Jun 28 16:38:22 2023
    On 6/28/23 3:53 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:14:04 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/28/23 10:59 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:03:37 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....
    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.

    answer the question, stop your incessant semantic quibblings
    That's a question for Scott but this mentions potholes, but not car weight: >>
    https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/maintenance/how-long-a-tire-lasts/ >>>> The complaint is cars weighing more than "two tonnes," or 4,400
    lbs. The average for cars in the US is just over 4,000 lbs.

    A Camry, pretty average, is 3200 to 3.750 pounds, depending on
    options
    That would be nine to four hundred pounds below average.

    The weight of a Toyota Camry can vary depending on the model. The
    Camry LE, for example, weighs in at 3,240 pounds, while the Camry SE
    and XLE weigh in at 3,380 pounds.
    An "average car" is not the same thing as "the average car." As gotchas,
    go, exceptionally weak.

    you are so FULL OF SHIT

    And you've jumped to conclusions. You don't think I looked it up?

    https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/average-car-weight/

    you still claim 4000 lbs is average car.

    4,156.

    What cars are 4000 lbs or greater?

    It's "vehicle" which is reasonable considering Scott is talking about
    road wear but I'll grant I did say "car" above. However, the original
    cite, my source, and the term "EV" all have vehicle in them, which makes
    sense considering how trucks and SUVs are high-selling vehicles. Ford
    doesn't even sell "cars" that aren't Mustangs.

    give me a list. You might find a few, but they would not be big sellers,

    Sedans: Mazda 3, Mazda 5, VW Jetta, Subaru Impreza, Hyundai Sonata, BMW
    3 Series, Nissan Maxima

    Others: Ford Explorer, Chevy Blazer, Dodge Durango, Kia Telluride, Honda
    Pilot, Toyota Highlander, Mazda CX-5, Honda CR-V.

    Some trucks that are big sellers: Chevy Silverado, Ford F150.

    Here's a source for 85 vehicles but no trucks between 4,000-5,000:

    https://readysetrev.com/what-vehicles-weigh-over-4000-pounds

    Here are the big sellers

    https://www.edmunds.com/most-popular-cars/

    The car I mentioned, the Camry happens to be the second biggest seller.
    You will note that many on that list are TRUCKS. They don't count as cars, because what we are comparing are ICE cars vs EV cars.
    Five of the ten nest sellers are trucks, one is an EV car.
    Four are ICE cars.

    Since they are all road-going, they all count.

    The average wight of a RAV4, an SUV (I will count that as a car) is 3700 lbs. The average weight of a Corolla is 2,800 lbs.

    The figures I cite was the average weight of all vehicles, not the
    weight of an individual car. Still, all over 6.000:

    https://amanandhisgear.com/vehicles-that-weigh-over-6000-pounds

    2023 Buick Enclave
    2023 Cadillac Escalade
    2023 Chevrolet Blazer
    2023 Chevrolet Suburban
    2023 Chevrolet Tahoe
    2023 Ford Explorer
    2023 GMC Yukon & Yukon XL
    2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee
    Toyota 4Runner

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Trevor Wilson@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Thu Jun 29 09:50:33 2023
    On 29/06/2023 6:54 am, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-4, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.


    EV cars emit CO2, remotely, of course, when charging.

    **Not so. EVs need not emit any CO2. In my own case, I plan on fitting
    my garage roof with Solar PV panels, which will enable me to recharge my
    EV with zero emissions. I am far from the only person who can accomplish
    this. Then, of course, there are many places where EVs can be charged,
    where electricity is sourced from renewable sources. Like all my present electricity needs.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to Trevor Wilson on Wed Jun 28 19:24:46 2023
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/06/2023 6:54 am, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-4, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.


    EV cars emit CO2, remotely, of course, when charging.
    **Not so. EVs need not emit any CO2. In my own case, I plan on fitting
    my garage roof with Solar PV panels, which will enable me to recharge my
    EV with zero emissions. I am far from the only person who can accomplish this.

    I expect you'll be the first to try and fail.


    Then, of course, there are many places where EVs can be charged,
    where electricity is sourced from renewable sources. Like all my present electricity needs.

    So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days. Explains your very long naps.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 28 19:21:00 2023
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 9:32:22 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/28/23 10:35 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 8:03:37 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw


    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.

    Ever looked at the carbon footprint of asphalt and concrete?
    Where in your cite is that information?

    I am going to accept your ignorance on the topic.

    And that recent news on low carbon concrete is for bricks....not poured concrete.
    That may be true for whatever recent news you may have seen, but not for
    all lower carbon concrete.

    https://www.carboncure.com/concrete-corner/a-complete-guide-to-low-carbon-concrete/

    I'm going to advertise a way to have lower carbon farts.
    You'll be my first customer.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 28 20:52:48 2023
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/28/23 3:53 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:14:04 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/28/23 10:59 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:03:37 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote: >>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....
    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.
    answer the question, stop your incessant semantic quibblings
    That's a question for Scott but this mentions potholes, but not car weight:

    https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/maintenance/how-long-a-tire-lasts/ >>>> The complaint is cars weighing more than "two tonnes," or 4,400
    lbs. The average for cars in the US is just over 4,000 lbs.

    A Camry, pretty average, is 3200 to 3.750 pounds, depending on
    options
    That would be nine to four hundred pounds below average.

    The weight of a Toyota Camry can vary depending on the model. The
    Camry LE, for example, weighs in at 3,240 pounds, while the Camry SE
    and XLE weigh in at 3,380 pounds.
    An "average car" is not the same thing as "the average car." As gotchas, >> go, exceptionally weak.

    you are so FULL OF SHIT
    And you've jumped to conclusions. You don't think I looked it up?


    Congrats! You looked up some wrong information, you PUTZ
    That is vehicle weight not car weight


    https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/average-car-weight/
    you still claim 4000 lbs is average car.
    4,156.
    What cars are 4000 lbs or greater?

    It's "vehicle" which is reasonable considering Scott is talking about
    road wear but I'll grant I did say "car" above. However, the original
    cite, my source, and the term "EV" all have vehicle in them, which makes sense considering how trucks and SUVs are high-selling vehicles. Ford doesn't even sell "cars" that aren't Mustangs.

    Listen Scmucko, when you compare weights of ICE to EV, you have to compare comparable
    vehicles.

    give me a list. You might find a few, but they would not be big sellers,

    Sedans: Mazda 3, Mazda 5, VW Jetta, Subaru Impreza, Hyundai Sonata, BMW
    3 Series, Nissan Maxima

    You shot yourself in the foot again. They are NOT over 4,000 lbs.


    Others: Ford Explorer, Chevy Blazer, Dodge Durango, Kia Telluride, Honda Pilot, Toyota Highlander, Mazda CX-5, Honda CR-V.

    Most of those are trucks



    Some trucks that are big sellers: Chevy Silverado, Ford F150.

    Trucks


    Here's a source for 85 vehicles but no trucks between 4,000-5,000:

    WRONG WRONG WRONG.
    THAT LIST INCLUDES EV'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    We are comparing ICE weights vs EV weights, and you give me a list
    of some trucks and EV cars.

    For exampel, the ICE versions of Toyota RAV4 s
    and Hyundai Tucsons are well under 4,000 lbs,
    Those 4500 lb wights you cited are for the EV versions.

    You are a complete fucking idiot.





    https://readysetrev.com/what-vehicles-weigh-over-4000-pounds
    Here are the big sellers

    https://www.edmunds.com/most-popular-cars/

    The car I mentioned, the Camry happens to be the second biggest seller. You will note that many on that list are TRUCKS. They don't count as cars, because what we are comparing are ICE cars vs EV cars.
    Five of the ten nest sellers are trucks, one is an EV car.
    Four are ICE cars.
    Since they are all road-going, they all count.

    NO THEY DON''T ALL COUNT
    we are coparing weights of ICe cars with EV cats.


    The average wight of a RAV4, an SUV (I will count that as a car) is 3700 lbs.
    The average weight of a Corolla is 2,800 lbs.
    The figures I cite was the average weight of all vehicles, not the
    weight of an individual car. Still, all over 6.000:

    https://amanandhisgear.com/vehicles-that-weigh-over-6000-pounds

    2023 Buick Enclave
    2023 Cadillac Escalade
    2023 Chevrolet Blazer
    2023 Chevrolet Suburban
    2023 Chevrolet Tahoe
    2023 Ford Explorer
    2023 GMC Yukon & Yukon XL
    2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee
    Toyota 4Runner

    Absolutely no differentiation between whether those weights refer to ICE or EV. Some are outside the classification of 'car'

    I did find two high weight ICE SUV's, The Lincoln Navigator and the Cadillac Escalade.
    But those are luxury vehicles and are not big sellers.


    Here are some weight differences between COMPARABLE EV and ICE models:

    Toyota RAV4 ICE 3,500 lb avg.
    Comparable Toyota BZ4X EV 4,350lb avg

    Mustang ICE 3,750lb Avg
    Mustang EV 4,650lb avg

    Hyundai Santa FE 3,850 lb avg (and a slightly larger SUV)
    Hyundai Ionic5 EV 4,450 lb avg

    The average difference between a comparable ICE and EV car is about 800 lbs.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=weight+hyundai+santa+fe&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
    https://www.google.com/search?q=weight+ionic5&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

    https://www.google.com/search?q=weight+mustang+mach+e&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
    https://www.google.com/search?q=weight+muustang&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

    https://www.google.com/search?q=weight+bz4x&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
    https://www.google.com/search?q=weight+toyota+rav4&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

    The bottom line is these facts:
    An EV car weighs about 800 lbs more and is about 35% heavier than a comparable OCE car.

    No amount of your usual lies, obfuscations and misinformation can hide the truth.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Thu Jun 29 09:20:16 2023
    On 6/28/23 9:21 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 9:32:22 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/28/23 10:35 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 8:03:37 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw


    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.

    Ever looked at the carbon footprint of asphalt and concrete?
    Where in your cite is that information?

    I am going to accept your ignorance on the topic.

    I'm aware of concrete's contribution to global warming. However, if you
    cite something, that something should say what you say it does.

    In this case, your cite isn't a scientific study or even a journalistic investigation but rather a "think piece" or "thumbsucker."

    I see why you were attracted to it, he's a "git er done yesterday"
    contrarian.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Thu Jun 29 10:03:59 2023
    On 6/28/23 10:52 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/28/23 3:53 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:14:04 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/28/23 10:59 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 11:03:37 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/27/23 11:57 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 12:43:34 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote: >>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents.... >>>>>>>> Poof goes that carbon neutrality.
    A claim not made in your cite.
    answer the question, stop your incessant semantic quibblings
    That's a question for Scott but this mentions potholes, but not car weight:

    https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/maintenance/how-long-a-tire-lasts/ >>>>>> The complaint is cars weighing more than "two tonnes," or 4,400
    lbs. The average for cars in the US is just over 4,000 lbs.

    A Camry, pretty average, is 3200 to 3.750 pounds, depending on
    options
    That would be nine to four hundred pounds below average.

    The weight of a Toyota Camry can vary depending on the model. The
    Camry LE, for example, weighs in at 3,240 pounds, while the Camry SE >>>>> and XLE weigh in at 3,380 pounds.
    An "average car" is not the same thing as "the average car." As gotchas, >>>> go, exceptionally weak.

    you are so FULL OF SHIT
    And you've jumped to conclusions. You don't think I looked it up?


    Congrats! You looked up some wrong information, you PUTZ
    That is vehicle weight not car weight

    Duh.

    https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/average-car-weight/
    you still claim 4000 lbs is average car.
    4,156.
    What cars are 4000 lbs or greater?

    It's "vehicle" which is reasonable considering Scott is talking about
    road wear but I'll grant I did say "car" above. However, the original
    cite, my source, and the term "EV" all have vehicle in them, which makes
    sense considering how trucks and SUVs are high-selling vehicles. Ford
    doesn't even sell "cars" that aren't Mustangs.

    Listen Scmucko, when you compare weights of ICE to EV, you have to compare comparable
    vehicles.

    I didn't do that. The figure is for vehicles sold.

    give me a list. You might find a few, but they would not be big sellers,

    Sedans: Mazda 3, Mazda 5, VW Jetta, Subaru Impreza, Hyundai Sonata, BMW
    3 Series, Nissan Maxima

    You shot yourself in the foot again. They are NOT over 4,000 lbs.

    My source: https://readysetrev.com/what-vehicles-weigh-over-4000-pounds

    It's "gross vehicle weight" so maybe that includes the box the vehicle
    comes in. Mazda 3:

    https://www.mazdausa.com/static/manuals/2020/mazda3_v2/contents/10020100.html

    GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)

    Manual transmission 1,804 kg (3,977 lbs)
    Automatic transmission 1,825 kg (4,023 lbs)

    Mazda 6:

    https://www.mazdausa.com/static/manuals/2020/mazda6/contents/10020100.html

    GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) SKYACTIV-G

    2,065 kg (4,552 lbs)

    Etc. I'm open to better information if you have it.

    Others: Ford Explorer, Chevy Blazer, Dodge Durango, Kia Telluride, Honda
    Pilot, Toyota Highlander, Mazda CX-5, Honda CR-V.

    Most of those are trucks

    All of those are SUVs.

    Some trucks that are big sellers: Chevy Silverado, Ford F150.

    Trucks

    Trucks are vehicles.

    Here's a source for 85 vehicles but no trucks between 4,000-5,000:

    WRONG WRONG WRONG.
    THAT LIST INCLUDES EV'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    EV are vehicles.

    We are comparing ICE weights vs EV weights, and you give me a list
    of some trucks and EV cars.

    I'm not comparing those.

    For exampel, the ICE versions of Toyota RAV4 s
    and Hyundai Tucsons are well under 4,000 lbs,
    Those 4500 lb wights you cited are for the EV versions.

    You are a complete fucking idiot.

    No, a complete idiot would claim I was comparing ICE to EV when I cited
    an average of all vehicles.

    https://readysetrev.com/what-vehicles-weigh-over-4000-pounds
    Here are the big sellers

    https://www.edmunds.com/most-popular-cars/

    The car I mentioned, the Camry happens to be the second biggest seller.
    You will note that many on that list are TRUCKS. They don't count as cars, >>> because what we are comparing are ICE cars vs EV cars.
    Five of the ten nest sellers are trucks, one is an EV car.
    Four are ICE cars.
    Since they are all road-going, they all count.

    NO THEY DON''T ALL COUNT
    we are coparing weights of ICe cars with EV cats.

    That's a conclusion to which you jumped.

    The average wight of a RAV4, an SUV (I will count that as a car) is 3700 lbs.
    The average weight of a Corolla is 2,800 lbs.
    The figures I cite was the average weight of all vehicles, not the
    weight of an individual car. Still, all over 6.000:

    https://amanandhisgear.com/vehicles-that-weigh-over-6000-pounds

    2023 Buick Enclave
    2023 Cadillac Escalade
    2023 Chevrolet Blazer
    2023 Chevrolet Suburban
    2023 Chevrolet Tahoe
    2023 Ford Explorer
    2023 GMC Yukon & Yukon XL
    2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee
    Toyota 4Runner

    Absolutely no differentiation between whether those weights refer to ICE or EV.
    Some are outside the classification of 'car'

    All are vehicles.

    I did find two high weight ICE SUV's, The Lincoln Navigator and the Cadillac Escalade.
    But those are luxury vehicles and are not big sellers.

    Big sellers in my neighborhood going back fifteen years or so, and they
    were on the list, but I omitted them in favor of the more common models.

    Autoblog says the Jeep Grand Cherokee gross weight is 6,500 lbs.

    Here are some weight differences between COMPARABLE EV and ICE models:

    Toyota RAV4 ICE 3,500 lb avg.
    Comparable Toyota BZ4X EV 4,350lb avg

    Mustang ICE 3,750lb Avg
    Mustang EV 4,650lb avg

    Hyundai Santa FE 3,850 lb avg (and a slightly larger SUV)
    Hyundai Ionic5 EV 4,450 lb avg

    The average difference between a comparable ICE and EV car is about 800 lbs.

    That's interesting.

    Thank you for the cites.

    <snip>

    The bottom line is these facts:
    An EV car weighs about 800 lbs more and is about 35% heavier than a comparable OCE car.

    No amount of your usual lies, obfuscations and misinformation can hide the truth.

    I'm not trying to hide the truth. Speaking of truth, where in Scott's
    piece does it say that difference causes twice the damage? Or damages
    "twice as fast" whatever that means?

    What's your opinion about US CAFE standards that encourage the sales of
    heavier vehicles, causing similar excess road damage?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 29 13:43:57 2023
    O
    I'm not trying to hide the truth. Speaking of truth, where in Scott's
    piece does it say that difference causes twice the damage? Or damages
    "twice as fast" whatever that means?

    Ask Scott. I didn't originate that

    What's your opinion about US CAFE standards that encourage the sales of heavier vehicles, causing similar excess road damage?

    I like French cafes that have real French bread.
    US cafes suck.
    The French like to bicycle to their cafes.
    I drink my coffee at home, saving emissions, road wear, and traffic deaths.
    I am a good citizen, other than eating beef and grilling on my charcoal grill.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Fri Jun 30 08:36:11 2023
    On 6/29/23 3:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    O
    I'm not trying to hide the truth. Speaking of truth, where in Scott's
    piece does it say that difference causes twice the damage? Or damages
    "twice as fast" whatever that means?

    Ask Scott. I didn't originate that

    He hasn't responded to a different question about the source.

    What's your opinion about US CAFE standards that encourage the sales of
    heavier vehicles, causing similar excess road damage?

    I like French cafes that have real French bread.
    US cafes suck.
    The French like to bicycle to their cafes.
    I drink my coffee at home, saving emissions, road wear, and traffic deaths.
    I am a good citizen, other than eating beef and grilling on my charcoal grill.
    While you're crying in your latte (check out the new Sparks release),
    give this a read:

    https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame

    "If you pay attention to the auto industry for any length of time—or
    even spend some time simply car-spotting as you sit in traffic—you'll
    have noticed an obvious truth about modern cars: They're big, and they
    keep getting bigger.

    However, there is one counterintuitive explanation for ever-larger cars
    with every passing model year: Fuel economy regulations.
    Our regulatory environment, as you'll soon see, is intended to encourage manufacturers to build small, fuel-efficient vehicles. But despite the governmental push for more efficient, eco-friendly cars, the actual data
    does not lie: Modern cars are growing at a rate that seems untenable."

    Read on for how a vehicle over 6,000 lbs gross vehicle weight can be a
    light truck with a lower fuel mileage requirement. Thrill to the
    description of how a Subaru Crosstrek, an ordinary unibody hatchback,
    qualifies due to all-wheel drive, weight, axle clearance, "breakover
    angle" and "departure angle."

    "With that light truck classification comes the benefit of less-strict
    mileage standards. Whether consumers adore the vehicles or not, there's
    a clear incentive here for manufacturers to build and sell more light
    trucks; they can game Section 523.5 to build cars that are judged less
    harshly by CAFE standards. So while the Crosstrek is my example, it's
    far from the only one out there. There's a reason why light trucks
    accounted for nearly 80 percent of new vehicles sold last month: Almost
    every crossover or SUV with AWD for sale today is a light truck."

    If you say 80% of vehicles sold don't count for your comparison, your comparison might not be as useful as one that counts all vehicles sold.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Trevor Wilson@21:1/5 to ScottW on Sat Jul 1 08:34:12 2023
    On 29/06/2023 12:24 pm, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/06/2023 6:54 am, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-4, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.


    EV cars emit CO2, remotely, of course, when charging.
    **Not so. EVs need not emit any CO2. In my own case, I plan on fitting
    my garage roof with Solar PV panels, which will enable me to recharge my
    EV with zero emissions. I am far from the only person who can accomplish
    this.

    I expect you'll be the first to try and fail.


    Then, of course, there are many places where EVs can be charged,
    where electricity is sourced from renewable sources. Like all my present
    electricity needs.

    So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days.
    Explains your very long naps.

    ScottW

    **You are truly a blithering idiot. Allow me to explain with pictures
    and links. Pay close attention, idiot:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Australia

    And:

    https://www.energy-storage.news/australia-had-over-2gwh-of-large-scale-battery-storage-under-construction-at-end-of-2022/

    And:

    https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/

    Which has been storing energy for almost 70 years.

    Moron.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 30 18:43:06 2023
    On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 9:36:16 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/29/23 3:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    O
    I'm not trying to hide the truth. Speaking of truth, where in Scott's
    piece does it say that difference causes twice the damage? Or damages
    "twice as fast" whatever that means?

    Ask Scott. I didn't originate that
    He hasn't responded to a different question about the source.


    That's not my problem.

    What's your opinion about US CAFE standards that encourage the sales of >> heavier vehicles, causing similar excess road damage?

    I like French cafes that have real French bread.
    US cafes suck.
    The French like to bicycle to their cafes.
    I drink my coffee at home, saving emissions, road wear, and traffic deaths.
    I am a good citizen, other than eating beef and grilling on my charcoal grill.
    While you're crying in your latte (check out the new Sparks release),
    give this a read:

    I drink espresso. I don't like lattes.

    https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame

    "If you pay attention to the auto industry for any length of time—or
    even spend some time simply car-spotting as you sit in traffic—you'll
    have noticed an obvious truth about modern cars: They're big, and they
    keep getting bigger.

    However, there is one counterintuitive explanation for ever-larger cars
    with every passing model year: Fuel economy regulations.
    Our regulatory environment, as you'll soon see, is intended to encourage manufacturers to build small, fuel-efficient vehicles. But despite the governmental push for more efficient, eco-friendly cars, the actual data does not lie: Modern cars are growing at a rate that seems untenable."

    Read on for how a vehicle over 6,000 lbs gross vehicle weight can be a
    light truck with a lower fuel mileage requirement. Thrill to the
    description of how a Subaru Crosstrek, an ordinary unibody hatchback, qualifies due to all-wheel drive, weight, axle clearance, "breakover
    angle" and "departure angle."

    "With that light truck classification comes the benefit of less-strict mileage standards. Whether consumers adore the vehicles or not, there's
    a clear incentive here for manufacturers to build and sell more light trucks; they can game Section 523.5 to build cars that are judged less harshly by CAFE standards. So while the Crosstrek is my example, it's
    far from the only one out there. There's a reason why light trucks
    accounted for nearly 80 percent of new vehicles sold last month: Almost every crossover or SUV with AWD for sale today is a light truck."

    If you say 80% of vehicles sold don't count for your comparison, your comparison might not be as useful as one that counts all vehicles sold.

    we were talking about the comparative weight of ICE cars vs EV cars.
    and how that might effect road maintenance
    All of your above babbling is very nice, but completely off point,
    Light trucks have nothing to do with this discussion.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Sat Jul 1 07:29:53 2023
    On 6/30/23 8:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 9:36:16 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/29/23 3:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    O
    I'm not trying to hide the truth. Speaking of truth, where in Scott's
    piece does it say that difference causes twice the damage? Or damages
    "twice as fast" whatever that means?

    Ask Scott. I didn't originate that
    He hasn't responded to a different question about the source.

    That's not my problem.

    No one thinks that's your problem.

    https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame

    "If you pay attention to the auto industry for any length of time—or
    even spend some time simply car-spotting as you sit in traffic—you'll
    have noticed an obvious truth about modern cars: They're big, and they
    keep getting bigger."

    If you say 80% of vehicles sold don't count for your comparison, your
    comparison might not be as useful as one that counts all vehicles sold.

    we were talking about the comparative weight of ICE cars vs EV cars.

    But we weren't.

    and how that might effect road maintenance

    Scott cited some dude in the UK who was afraid cars considered average
    weight in the US would make their bad roads even worse, thereby erasing
    the environmental advantages of EVs according to Scott.

    All of your above babbling is very nice, but completely off point,
    Light trucks have nothing to do with this discussion.

    Except you challenged my cite for the weight of vehicles in the US and
    tried to exclude most vehicles on the road from consideration.

    If 4,000 lb vehicles are bad for the UK, they're bad here. BTW, the EPA
    average I cited was for "gross vehicle weight," not the curb weight you
    cited. GVR is preferred because roads don't get used by empty
    driver-less unfueled cars which is what curb weight measures.

    https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/gvwr-vs-gcwr/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 1 08:14:37 2023
    On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 5:29:58 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/30/23 8:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 9:36:16 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/29/23 3:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    O
    I'm not trying to hide the truth. Speaking of truth, where in Scott's >>>> piece does it say that difference causes twice the damage? Or damages >>>> "twice as fast" whatever that means?

    Ask Scott. I didn't originate that
    He hasn't responded to a different question about the source.

    That's not my problem.
    No one thinks that's your problem.
    https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame

    "If you pay attention to the auto industry for any length of time—or
    even spend some time simply car-spotting as you sit in traffic—you'll >> have noticed an obvious truth about modern cars: They're big, and they
    keep getting bigger."
    If you say 80% of vehicles sold don't count for your comparison, your
    comparison might not be as useful as one that counts all vehicles sold.

    we were talking about the comparative weight of ICE cars vs EV cars.
    But we weren't.

    Yes we were. Cars vs cars. Trucks vs Trucks.

    In every category of vehicle the EV version weighs a whole lot more.

    This negatively affects vehicle safety and road life. That is indisputable.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Sat Jul 1 11:09:36 2023
    On 7/1/23 10:14 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 5:29:58 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/30/23 8:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 9:36:16 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/29/23 3:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    O
    I'm not trying to hide the truth. Speaking of truth, where in Scott's >>>>>> piece does it say that difference causes twice the damage? Or damages >>>>>> "twice as fast" whatever that means?

    Ask Scott. I didn't originate that
    He hasn't responded to a different question about the source.

    That's not my problem.
    No one thinks that's your problem.
    https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame

    "If you pay attention to the auto industry for any length of time—or >>>> even spend some time simply car-spotting as you sit in traffic—you'll >>>> have noticed an obvious truth about modern cars: They're big, and they >>>> keep getting bigger."
    If you say 80% of vehicles sold don't count for your comparison, your
    comparison might not be as useful as one that counts all vehicles sold. >>>
    we were talking about the comparative weight of ICE cars vs EV cars.
    But we weren't.

    Yes we were. Cars vs cars. Trucks vs Trucks.

    Your cite: "EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol
    equivalents." I'll grant you that but with the provision that in the not-too-distant future envisioned by the author, there won't be any
    equivalents as they won't be on sale.

    My point is any 2 tonne vehicle will cause the same damage as any other
    2 tonne vehicle.

    Sadly, the Telegraph story source is paywalled but the headline doesn't
    inspire confidence. "Pothole damage... is double"? Who knows the dodgy
    metrics at play there.

    Is the alternative of imposing weight limits mentioned?

    In every category of vehicle the EV version weighs a whole lot more.

    800 pounds is 20% of the average vehicle. However, the "secret sauce" of innovation will lower that excess weight.

    This negatively affects vehicle safety and road life. That is indisputable.

    Yes, hence my invoking the way the US subsidizes heavier vehicles thru
    CAFE standards.

    If EVs are bad because they're heavy, let's see your protests against
    light truck SUVs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 1 16:59:01 2023
    On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 12:09:41 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/1/23 10:14 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 5:29:58 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/30/23 8:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 9:36:16 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/29/23 3:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    O
    I'm not trying to hide the truth. Speaking of truth, where in Scott's >>>>>> piece does it say that difference causes twice the damage? Or damages >>>>>> "twice as fast" whatever that means?

    Ask Scott. I didn't originate that
    He hasn't responded to a different question about the source.

    That's not my problem.
    No one thinks that's your problem.
    https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame

    "If you pay attention to the auto industry for any length of time—or >>>> even spend some time simply car-spotting as you sit in traffic—you'll >>>> have noticed an obvious truth about modern cars: They're big, and they >>>> keep getting bigger."
    If you say 80% of vehicles sold don't count for your comparison, your >>>> comparison might not be as useful as one that counts all vehicles sold. >>>
    we were talking about the comparative weight of ICE cars vs EV cars.
    But we weren't.

    Yes we were. Cars vs cars. Trucks vs Trucks.
    Your cite: "EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol
    equivalents." I'll grant you that but with the provision that in the not-too-distant future envisioned by the author, there won't be any equivalents as they won't be on sale.

    My point is any 2 tonne vehicle will cause the same damage as any other
    2 tonne vehicle.

    Sadly, the Telegraph story source is paywalled but the headline doesn't inspire confidence. "Pothole damage... is double"? Who knows the dodgy metrics at play there.

    Is the alternative of imposing weight limits mentioned?
    In every category of vehicle the EV version weighs a whole lot more.
    800 pounds is 20% of the average vehicle. However, the "secret sauce" of innovation will lower that excess weight.
    This negatively affects vehicle safety and road life. That is indisputable.
    Yes, hence my invoking the way the US subsidizes heavier vehicles thru
    CAFE standards.

    If EVs are bad because they're heavy, let's see your protests against
    light truck SUVs.

    Pointless
    EV cars, yes, cars, are bad because they are heavier than ICE cars, yes cars.

    Light truck SUVS that are ICE would be lighter than same such vehicles that are EV 9if any such exist)

    By YOUR standards, I should be appalled by semi tractor trailers, and evne dump trucks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Sun Jul 2 13:30:37 2023
    On 7/1/23 6:59 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 12:09:41 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    If EVs are bad because they're heavy, let's see your protests
    against light truck SUVs.

    Pointless EV cars, yes, cars, are bad because they are heavier than
    ICE cars, yes cars.

    Should new car models be allowed to weigh more than the ones they replace?

    Light truck SUVS that are ICE would be lighter than same such
    vehicles that are EV 9if any such exist)

    Light trucks will be >6,000 lbs no matter the engine in order to qualify
    for easier mileage standards.

    By YOUR standards, I should be appalled by semi tractor trailers, and
    evne dump trucks.

    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.

    Here are some useful links:

    https://www.insidescience.org/news/how-much-damage-do-heavy-trucks-do-our-roads

    https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/highway-legend-how-false-stat-about-trucks-road-damage-based-60-years-distortion

    https://theconversation.com/trucks-are-destroying-our-roads-and-not-picking-up-the-repair-cost-79670

    Dump trucks are a menace even without considering road damage.

    https://www.myplainview.com/news/article/British-fashion-model-Kim-McLagan-dies-in-traffic-8486090.php

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 2 15:57:13 2023
    On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 9:09:41 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/1/23 10:14 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 5:29:58 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/30/23 8:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 9:36:16 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 6/29/23 3:43 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    O
    I'm not trying to hide the truth. Speaking of truth, where in Scott's >>>>>> piece does it say that difference causes twice the damage? Or damages >>>>>> "twice as fast" whatever that means?

    Ask Scott. I didn't originate that
    He hasn't responded to a different question about the source.

    That's not my problem.
    No one thinks that's your problem.
    https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame

    "If you pay attention to the auto industry for any length of time—or >>>> even spend some time simply car-spotting as you sit in traffic—you'll >>>> have noticed an obvious truth about modern cars: They're big, and they >>>> keep getting bigger."
    If you say 80% of vehicles sold don't count for your comparison, your >>>> comparison might not be as useful as one that counts all vehicles sold. >>>
    we were talking about the comparative weight of ICE cars vs EV cars.
    But we weren't.

    Yes we were. Cars vs cars. Trucks vs Trucks.
    Your cite: "EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol
    equivalents." I'll grant you that but with the provision that in the not-too-distant future envisioned by the author, there won't be any equivalents as they won't be on sale.

    and you'll be paying the hefty price for little or no benefit.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 2 17:27:35 2023
    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.



    Your childhood toy caused you a lifetime of trauma.

    https://www.greentoys.com/products/dump-truck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 2 17:29:16 2023
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:30:40 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.



    Dump trucks are a menace even without considering road damage.

    You can't build a road without dump trucks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Sun Jul 2 20:49:56 2023
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:30:40 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.



    Dump trucks are a menace even without considering road damage.
    You can't build a road without dump trucks.

    Concrete trucks are probably among the worst for roads in dump truck domain. Whack the concrete trucks and it's like aborting all road and a whole lotta building construction.
    Stephen longs for cave dwelling but in Texas I think he'll end up in a sod hut or an adobe shanti if he's lucky.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to ScottW on Sun Jul 2 21:29:00 2023
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 11:49:58 PM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:30:40 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.



    Dump trucks are a menace even without considering road damage.
    You can't build a road without dump trucks.
    Concrete trucks are probably among the worst for roads in dump truck domain. Whack the concrete trucks and it's like aborting all road and a whole lotta building construction.
    Stephen longs for cave dwelling but in Texas I think he'll end up in a sod hut or an adobe shanti if he's lucky.

    ScottW

    Or just a tent in a homeless camp. With a job handing out free needles and crack pipes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Mon Jul 3 06:45:23 2023
    On 7/2/23 7:29 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:30:40 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.



    Dump trucks are a menace even without considering road damage.

    You can't build a road without dump trucks.

    https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2023-137/default.html

    "Injuries from dump trucks led to the deaths of 809 construction and
    extraction workers from 2011 to 2020. Those operating dump trucks or
    working nearby are at risk of multiple hazards including struck-by,
    tip-over from loss of vehicle control, crushing, electrical, and falls."

    The following is just an anecdote, but a URL with "Sheboygan" "Fredonia"
    and "dump truck" is somewhat remarkable, especially when the driver is
    from the "town of Belgium."

    https://www.sheboyganpress.comdump-truck-runs-red-light-on-state-57-in-fredonia-crashes-into-suv


    Paywalled and the URL is probably not valid as I've trimmed the
    extraneous code. This more prosaic URL works:

    https://www.fox6now.com/news/fredonia-dump-truck-crash-injuries

    The stories don't agree on the age of the "Belgium man."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Mon Jul 3 06:31:55 2023
    On 7/2/23 5:57 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 9:09:41 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

    Your cite: "EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol
    equivalents." I'll grant you that but with the provision that in the
    not-too-distant future envisioned by the author, there won't be any
    equivalents as they won't be on sale.

    and you'll be paying the hefty price for little or no benefit.

    I'm not moving to the UK, especially if the roads are so bad that a
    vehicle of average-weight in the US is a problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Mon Jul 3 06:55:42 2023
    On 7/2/23 10:49 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:30:40 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.



    Dump trucks are a menace even without considering road damage.
    You can't build a road without dump trucks.

    Concrete trucks are probably among the worst for roads in dump truck
    domain. Whack the concrete trucks and it's like aborting all road and
    a whole lotta building construction. Stephen longs for cave dwelling
    but in Texas I think he'll end up in a sod hut or an adobe shanti if
    he's lucky.

    Dump trucks and concrete trucks are useful despite their inherent
    dangers and road destroying weight.

    If EVs should be banned because they're too heavy, will you propose
    banning ICE vehicles of the same weight?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 3 09:16:43 2023
    On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 7:55:45 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/2/23 10:49 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:30:40 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.



    Dump trucks are a menace even without considering road damage.
    You can't build a road without dump trucks.

    Concrete trucks are probably among the worst for roads in dump truck domain. Whack the concrete trucks and it's like aborting all road and
    a whole lotta building construction. Stephen longs for cave dwelling
    but in Texas I think he'll end up in a sod hut or an adobe shanti if
    he's lucky.
    Dump trucks and concrete trucks are useful despite their inherent
    dangers and road destroying weight.

    If EVs should be banned because they're too heavy, will you propose
    banning ICE vehicles of the same weight?

    First if all, where did I say EV's should be banned?
    Second, the same result should be had ONLY IF the two vehicles were of
    the same class. and size. Don't compare pickup trucks to SUV's
    Nor compact SUV's with full size.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 3 09:28:27 2023
    On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 4:55:45 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/2/23 10:49 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:30:40 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.



    Dump trucks are a menace even without considering road damage.
    You can't build a road without dump trucks.

    Concrete trucks are probably among the worst for roads in dump truck domain. Whack the concrete trucks and it's like aborting all road and
    a whole lotta building construction. Stephen longs for cave dwelling
    but in Texas I think he'll end up in a sod hut or an adobe shanti if
    he's lucky.
    Dump trucks and concrete trucks are useful despite their inherent
    dangers and road destroying weight.

    If EVs should be banned because they're too heavy, will you propose
    banning ICE vehicles of the same weight?

    No...they are necessary. EVs are not necessary.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Mon Jul 3 11:35:03 2023
    On 7/3/23 11:16 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 7:55:45 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/2/23 10:49 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:30:40 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    I am appalled by dump trucks and you left out buses.



    Dump trucks are a menace even without considering road damage.
    You can't build a road without dump trucks.

    Concrete trucks are probably among the worst for roads in dump truck
    domain. Whack the concrete trucks and it's like aborting all road and
    a whole lotta building construction. Stephen longs for cave dwelling
    but in Texas I think he'll end up in a sod hut or an adobe shanti if
    he's lucky.
    Dump trucks and concrete trucks are useful despite their inherent
    dangers and road destroying weight.

    If EVs should be banned because they're too heavy, will you propose
    banning ICE vehicles of the same weight?

    First if all, where did I say EV's should be banned?

    That's a Scott thing that follows from his claim that EVs will be useless.

    Second, the same result should be had ONLY IF the two vehicles were of
    the same class. and size. Don't compare pickup trucks to SUV's
    Nor compact SUV's with full size.

    Weight is weight as far as roads go and truck and SUV models can change
    size.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 3 17:11:28 2023
    Second, the same result should be had ONLY IF the two vehicles were of
    the same class. and size. Don't compare pickup trucks to SUV's
    Nor compact SUV's with full size.
    Weight is weight as far as roads go and truck and SUV models can change
    size.

    Then just compare similar sized in similar class.
    Eeezie peezie
    Apples to Apples
    Oranges to Oranges

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Tue Jul 4 07:55:23 2023
    On 7/3/23 7:11 PM, Art Sackman wrote:

    Second, the same result should be had ONLY IF the two vehicles were of
    the same class. and size. Don't compare pickup trucks to SUV's
    Nor compact SUV's with full size.
    Weight is weight as far as roads go and truck and SUV models can change
    size.

    Then just compare similar sized in similar class.
    Eeezie peezie
    Apples to Apples
    Oranges to Oranges

    Pounds to pounds.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 4 12:12:47 2023
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 8:55:26 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/3/23 7:11 PM, Art Sackman wrote:

    Second, the same result should be had ONLY IF the two vehicles were of >>> the same class. and size. Don't compare pickup trucks to SUV's
    Nor compact SUV's with full size.
    Weight is weight as far as roads go and truck and SUV models can change >> size.

    Then just compare similar sized in similar class.
    Eeezie peezie
    Apples to Apples
    Oranges to Oranges


    Pounds to pounds.

    Try carrying a load of hot asphalt in your Tesla.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Trevor Wilson@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Jul 5 08:20:12 2023
    On 29/06/2023 12:24 pm, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/06/2023 6:54 am, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-4, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.


    EV cars emit CO2, remotely, of course, when charging.
    **Not so. EVs need not emit any CO2. In my own case, I plan on fitting
    my garage roof with Solar PV panels, which will enable me to recharge my
    EV with zero emissions. I am far from the only person who can accomplish
    this.

    I expect you'll be the first to try and fail.


    Then, of course, there are many places where EVs can be charged,
    where electricity is sourced from renewable sources. Like all my present
    electricity needs.

    So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days.
    Explains your very long naps.

    ScottW

    **You are truly a blithering idiot. Allow me to explain with pictures
    and links. Pay close attention, idiot:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Australia

    And:

    https://www.energy-storage.news/australia-had-over-2gwh-of-large-scale-battery-storage-under-construction-at-end-of-2022/

    And:

    https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/

    Which has been storing energy for almost 70 years.

    Moron.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to Trevor Wilson on Tue Jul 4 15:32:01 2023
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 3:20:14 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/06/2023 12:24 pm, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/06/2023 6:54 am, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-4, Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>> On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.


    EV cars emit CO2, remotely, of course, when charging.
    **Not so. EVs need not emit any CO2. In my own case, I plan on fitting
    my garage roof with Solar PV panels, which will enable me to recharge my >> EV with zero emissions. I am far from the only person who can accomplish >> this.

    I expect you'll be the first to try and fail.


    Then, of course, there are many places where EVs can be charged,
    where electricity is sourced from renewable sources. Like all my present >> electricity needs.

    So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days.
    Explains your very long naps.

    ScottW

    **You are truly a blithering idiot. Allow me to explain with pictures
    and links. Pay close attention, idiot:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Australia

    And:

    https://www.energy-storage.news/australia-had-over-2gwh-of-large-scale-battery-storage-under-construction-at-end-of-2022/

    Peanuts....but enjoy the utility rate spike. My total rate with all the fees surcharges and other BS has hit 50c/Kwh.
    Their rates are BS.
    BTW.....try charging your car between 4 and 10 PM. 80c/KwH.

    And:

    https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/

    Which has been storing energy for almost 70 years.

    LoL....you've got growing glaciers on demand or just killing fish with dams?

    None of this traces your electrons to renewable sources. They're just sucking money from you so you can virtue signal
    you dumb fuck.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Trevor Wilson@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Jul 5 09:17:21 2023
    On 5/07/2023 8:32 am, ScottW wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 3:20:14 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/06/2023 12:24 pm, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>> On 29/06/2023 6:54 am, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-4, Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>>>> On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents....


    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.


    EV cars emit CO2, remotely, of course, when charging.
    **Not so. EVs need not emit any CO2. In my own case, I plan on fitting >>>> my garage roof with Solar PV panels, which will enable me to recharge my >>>> EV with zero emissions. I am far from the only person who can accomplish >>>> this.

    I expect you'll be the first to try and fail.


    Then, of course, there are many places where EVs can be charged,
    where electricity is sourced from renewable sources. Like all my present >>>> electricity needs.

    So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days.
    Explains your very long naps.

    ScottW

    **You are truly a blithering idiot. Allow me to explain with pictures
    and links. Pay close attention, idiot:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Australia

    And:

    https://www.energy-storage.news/australia-had-over-2gwh-of-large-scale-battery-storage-under-construction-at-end-of-2022/

    Peanuts....but enjoy the utility rate spike. My total rate with all the fees surcharges and other BS has hit 50c/Kwh.
    Their rates are BS.
    BTW.....try charging your car between 4 and 10 PM. 80c/KwH.

    And:

    https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/

    Which has been storing energy for almost 70 years.

    LoL....you've got growing glaciers on demand or just killing fish with dams?

    None of this traces your electrons to renewable sources. They're just sucking money from you so you can virtue signal
    you dumb fuck.

    ScottW


    **Here is your claim moron:

    "So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days."

    I proved you wrong. As usual.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to Trevor Wilson on Tue Jul 4 20:53:45 2023
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 4:17:25 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 5/07/2023 8:32 am, ScottW wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 3:20:14 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/06/2023 12:24 pm, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>> On 29/06/2023 6:54 am, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-4, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents.... >>>>>>>

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.


    EV cars emit CO2, remotely, of course, when charging.
    **Not so. EVs need not emit any CO2. In my own case, I plan on fitting >>>> my garage roof with Solar PV panels, which will enable me to recharge my
    EV with zero emissions. I am far from the only person who can accomplish
    this.

    I expect you'll be the first to try and fail.


    Then, of course, there are many places where EVs can be charged,
    where electricity is sourced from renewable sources. Like all my present
    electricity needs.

    So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days.
    Explains your very long naps.

    ScottW

    **You are truly a blithering idiot. Allow me to explain with pictures
    and links. Pay close attention, idiot:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Australia

    And:

    https://www.energy-storage.news/australia-had-over-2gwh-of-large-scale-battery-storage-under-construction-at-end-of-2022/

    Peanuts....but enjoy the utility rate spike. My total rate with all the fees surcharges and other BS has hit 50c/Kwh.
    Their rates are BS.
    BTW.....try charging your car between 4 and 10 PM. 80c/KwH.

    And:

    https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/

    Which has been storing energy for almost 70 years.

    LoL....you've got growing glaciers on demand or just killing fish with dams?

    None of this traces your electrons to renewable sources. They're just sucking money from you so you can virtue signal
    you dumb fuck.

    ScottW

    **Here is your claim moron:
    "So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days."

    Nobody is calling hydro renewable....it's limited.
    As you point out...it had to be stored up for almost 70 years to provide enough
    to be worth mentioning.

    I proved you wrong. As usual.

    If you're lights are on at night you're drawing from carbon fuel sources. Period.

    But pay your dumbass premium like the virtue signaling dupe you are.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Trevor Wilson@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Jul 5 14:43:31 2023
    On 5/07/2023 1:53 pm, ScottW wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 4:17:25 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 5/07/2023 8:32 am, ScottW wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 3:20:14 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/06/2023 12:24 pm, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>>>> On 29/06/2023 6:54 am, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 28, 2023 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-4, Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>>>>>> On 28/06/2023 2:43 pm, ScottW wrote:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/time-to-slam-the-brakes-on-the-electric-vehicle-calamity/ar-AA1d6nvw

    EVs damage roads twice as much as their petrol equivalents.... >>>>>>>>>

    Poof goes that carbon neutrality.

    ScottW
    **This:

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500.html

    does WAY more damage to roads than this:

    https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html

    PLUS, the ID4 emits zero CO2 when operating.


    EV cars emit CO2, remotely, of course, when charging.
    **Not so. EVs need not emit any CO2. In my own case, I plan on fitting >>>>>> my garage roof with Solar PV panels, which will enable me to recharge my >>>>>> EV with zero emissions. I am far from the only person who can accomplish >>>>>> this.

    I expect you'll be the first to try and fail.


    Then, of course, there are many places where EVs can be charged,
    where electricity is sourced from renewable sources. Like all my present >>>>>> electricity needs.

    So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days.
    Explains your very long naps.

    ScottW

    **You are truly a blithering idiot. Allow me to explain with pictures
    and links. Pay close attention, idiot:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Australia

    And:

    https://www.energy-storage.news/australia-had-over-2gwh-of-large-scale-battery-storage-under-construction-at-end-of-2022/

    Peanuts....but enjoy the utility rate spike. My total rate with all the fees surcharges and other BS has hit 50c/Kwh.
    Their rates are BS.
    BTW.....try charging your car between 4 and 10 PM. 80c/KwH.

    And:

    https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/

    Which has been storing energy for almost 70 years.

    LoL....you've got growing glaciers on demand or just killing fish with dams?

    None of this traces your electrons to renewable sources. They're just sucking money from you so you can virtue signal
    you dumb fuck.

    ScottW

    **Here is your claim moron:
    "So you get zero electricity service at night and cloudy days."

    Nobody is calling hydro renewable....it's limited.

    **Depends, but that is not the prime reason for the Snowy Hydro Scheme.
    Which, had you bothered to read my cites, you'd understand. Or, more
    probably, not.

    As you point out...it had to be stored up for almost 70 years to provide enough
    to be worth mentioning.

    **I'm not sure if you are a complete idiot, or you are just plain
    stupid. Read the cites.


    I proved you wrong. As usual.

    If you're lights are on at night you're drawing from carbon fuel sources. Period.

    **Wrong, moron. Read about the Snowy Hydro Scheme. It works like a
    fucking big battery.


    But pay your dumbass premium like the virtue signaling dupe you are.


    **Read the fucking cites moron. Maybe you'll understand, but I doubt it.


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Wed Jul 5 09:55:41 2023
    On 7/4/23 2:12 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 8:55:26 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/3/23 7:11 PM, Art Sackman wrote:

    Second, the same result should be had ONLY IF the two vehicles were of >>>>> the same class. and size. Don't compare pickup trucks to SUV's
    Nor compact SUV's with full size.
    Weight is weight as far as roads go and truck and SUV models can change >>>> size.

    Then just compare similar sized in similar class.
    Eeezie peezie
    Apples to Apples
    Oranges to Oranges


    Pounds to pounds.

    Try carrying a load of hot asphalt in your Tesla.

    It would have the same effect on the road as the same load in another
    vehicle of the same weight. Well, assuming the same number of axles.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Jul 5 10:26:48 2023
    On 7/4/23 10:53 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 4:17:25 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:

    **Here is your claim moron: "So you get zero electricity service at
    night and cloudy days."

    Nobody is calling hydro renewable....it's limited.

    Why do you do this? Solar power is limited, too, as the sun will
    eventually deplete itself in some billion years.

    https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/hydropower-basics

    "Hydropower, or hydroelectric power, is one of the oldest and largest
    sources of renewable energy, which uses the natural flow of moving water
    to generate electricity. Hydropower currently accounts for 28.7% of
    total U.S. renewable electricity generation and about 6.2% of total U.S. electricity generation."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 5 08:43:15 2023
    On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 8:26:51 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/4/23 10:53 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 4:17:25 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:

    **Here is your claim moron: "So you get zero electricity service at
    night and cloudy days."

    Nobody is calling hydro renewable....it's limited.
    Why do you do this? Solar power is limited, too, as the sun will
    eventually deplete itself in some billion years.

    https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/hydropower-basics

    "Hydropower, or hydroelectric power, is one of the oldest and largest sources of renewable energy, which uses the natural flow of moving water
    to generate electricity. Hydropower currently accounts for 28.7% of
    total U.S. renewable electricity generation and about 6.2% of total U.S. electricity generation."

    I've no problem with hydro.....but in Ca. the dumbass environmentalists
    can't get past the delta smelt.

    In any case....hydro isn't a growing source and your climate change scare mongerers are
    telling us it's in decline as snow will be no more.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 5 08:47:41 2023
    On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:55:44 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/4/23 2:12 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 8:55:26 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/3/23 7:11 PM, Art Sackman wrote:

    Second, the same result should be had ONLY IF the two vehicles were of >>>>> the same class. and size. Don't compare pickup trucks to SUV's
    Nor compact SUV's with full size.
    Weight is weight as far as roads go and truck and SUV models can change >>>> size.

    Then just compare similar sized in similar class.
    Eeezie peezie
    Apples to Apples
    Oranges to Oranges


    Pounds to pounds.

    Try carrying a load of hot asphalt in your Tesla.
    It would have the same effect on the road as the same load in another vehicle of the same weight. Well, assuming the same number of axles.\

    Yes, but if you are looking for a particular class and size of vehicle,
    the ICE one will be 700lb to 800lb lighter than the EV one.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Wed Jul 5 11:39:25 2023
    On 7/5/23 10:47 AM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:55:44 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/4/23 2:12 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 8:55:26 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/3/23 7:11 PM, Art Sackman wrote:

    Second, the same result should be had ONLY IF the two vehicles were of >>>>>>> the same class. and size. Don't compare pickup trucks to SUV's
    Nor compact SUV's with full size.
    Weight is weight as far as roads go and truck and SUV models can change >>>>>> size.

    Then just compare similar sized in similar class.
    Eeezie peezie
    Apples to Apples
    Oranges to Oranges


    Pounds to pounds.

    Try carrying a load of hot asphalt in your Tesla.
    It would have the same effect on the road as the same load in another
    vehicle of the same weight. Well, assuming the same number of axles.\

    Yes, but if you are looking for a particular class and size of vehicle,
    the ICE one will be 700lb to 800lb lighter than the EV one.

    I'm not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Jul 5 11:38:03 2023
    On 7/5/23 10:43 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 8:26:51 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/4/23 10:53 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 4:17:25 PM UTC-7, Trevor Wilson wrote:

    **Here is your claim moron: "So you get zero electricity service at
    night and cloudy days."

    Nobody is calling hydro renewable....it's limited.
    Why do you do this? Solar power is limited, too, as the sun will
    eventually deplete itself in some billion years.

    https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/hydropower-basics

    "Hydropower, or hydroelectric power, is one of the oldest and largest
    sources of renewable energy, which uses the natural flow of moving water
    to generate electricity. Hydropower currently accounts for 28.7% of
    total U.S. renewable electricity generation and about 6.2% of total U.S.
    electricity generation."

    I've no problem with hydro.....but in Ca. the dumbass environmentalists
    can't get past the delta smelt.

    It's way more complicated than that: salinity, flood control,
    agricultural interests, etc all play parts. And you're changing the
    subject from power generation as the project you refer to will takes
    lots of power to run.

    https://calmatters.org/environment/2022/06/california-water-delta-tunnel/

    "The tunnel would be no quick fix: It would have to clear a gauntlet of permits, hearings and environmental review, including from federal
    agencies."

    I would've said "run a gantlet," but I didn't write it.

    In any case....hydro isn't a growing source and your climate change scare mongerers are
    telling us it's in decline as snow will be no more.

    But it is renewable and even if there's no snow, the coming ARkStorm
    should be planned for.

    https://water.ca.gov/News/Blog/2022/July-22/Delta-Conveyance-A-Fresh-Look-Yields-a-New-Project#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 5 11:45:34 2023
    On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 8:55:26 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 7/3/23 7:11 PM, Art Sackman wrote:

    Second, the same result should be had ONLY IF the two vehicles were of >>> the same class. and size. Don't compare pickup trucks to SUV's
    Nor compact SUV's with full size.
    Weight is weight as far as roads go and truck and SUV models can change >> size.

    Then just compare similar sized in similar class.
    Eeezie peezie
    Apples to Apples
    Oranges to Oranges
    Pounds to pounds.

    Pounds of similar ICE vehicles to similat EV's

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)