Robert Carnegie <[email protected]> wrote:

Is the crisis because the OAS fund cannot
pay elderly SS subscribers due to the government
pilfering it, or is it because the government
pilfering has to stop when the money is all gone?

The government pilfering is a problem, and it's been happening since
Reagan.

The aging population is also a problem, with fewer younger people paying
into the system as more aging people are paid by it. (And yes, higher immigration rates can fix this one.)

Some people have made the argument that mathematically, if the cap on
income was removed from the social security witholdings, so that
billionaires were paying at the same percentage rate as millionaires
instead of the same amount, that it would solve the current OAS deficit problem. This is true, and it's certainly a good plan from any viewpoint except that of the very rich, but it's also kicking the can down the road
a bit since eventually the very rich are likely to get paid back a good
portion of that a generation later.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:

Higher immigration will not fix this problem as most of the immigrants
are uneducated and cannot speak the majority language, English.

What does that have to do with being able to pay into the social security system?

My grandparents were uneducated and my grandmother never did learn English
even after seventy years in the country. But she ran a cheese factory and became a successful businessperson.

It used to be that we allowed immigration to the USA for college
graduates and English competency only. We still allow about 1.3 million >people per year to immigrant legally to the USA, mostly family of
existing citizens.

When was this? It certainly wasn't when my grandparents came here.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:

Higher immigration will not fix this problem as most of the immigrants
are uneducated and cannot speak the majority language, English.

What does that have to do with being able to pay into the social security >system?

My grandparents were uneducated and my grandmother never did learn English >even after seventy years in the country. But she ran a cheese factory and >became a successful businessperson.

Indeed. The vast majority (even omitting H1B holders) of immigrants
contribute to social security, medicare and pay taxes[*] just like
everyone else. The H1B holders generally have post secondary
educations and contribute at a higher rate.

[*] Particularly the regressive taxes such as sales taxes, tolls and fees.

Lynn seems to have some basic prejudices against Muslims and foreigners generally. Probably been reading too much krapman. Or maybe there is something in the water in Texas.

It used to be that we allowed immigration to the USA for college
graduates and English competency only. We still allow about 1.3 million >>people per year to immigrant legally to the USA, mostly family of
existing citizens.

When was this? It certainly wasn't when my grandparents came here.

Or my great-great grandparents, none of whom had college
educations. At least two of them fought for the Union
in the civil war.

Heck, with McGuire as a surname, his family must surely have
heard the phrase "Irish need not apply" when they immigrated.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> writes:

On 6/21/2025 9:03 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:

On 19/06/2025 18:59, Lynn McGuire wrote:

“The US Likely Has 8 Years—At Most—Before Crisis”
     https://www.schiffsovereign.com/trends/153000-153000/

“Yesterday afternoon the US government published its annual report
stating plainly that America has eight years left before a major
financial crisis.”

“This is not hyperbole. This is not conjecture. This is not some wild
conspiracy theory.”

“In fact, eight years until a crisis is probably the BEST CASE
SCENARIO unless Congress takes serious action soon.”

“That’s because the most critical trust fund in the Social Security
system (called OAS, or “Old Age Survivors) will be fully depleted.”

“That’s precisely what it says in the 2025 Annual Report of the Board >>> of Trustees of Social Security, signed by the US Secretary of Treasury
just yesterday.”

“But on top of that— by 2033, the total US national debt will be $52 >>> TRILLION according to Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates. And
the CBO notoriously underestimates deficits… so in all likelihood the
national debt will be event greater.”

This is well documented in the future documentary “The Mandibles: A
Family, 2029-2047” by Lionel Shriver.  In fact, the financial
apocalypse will probably happen around 2029.

https://www.amazon.com/Mandibles-Family-2029-2047-Lionel-Shriver/
dp/006232828X

Is the crisis because the OAS fund cannot
pay elderly SS subscribers due to the government
pilfering it, or is it because the government
pilfering has to stop when the money is all gone?

Just about every other country on the planet now means tests their
version of Social Security.

Surely you can back this up with a real citation? Your history
with facts is pretty poor. (too much dumshitpundit and liarwars).

I suspect that the USA will do the same. I
will be unhappy but not very damaged as I have saved. My wife is on
Social Security but I am delaying it for the increased payout.

Means testing Medicare will throw a bunch of people like me, middle
income, into the valley of no health insurance. Throwing us onto
Obamacare is just another cost to the feddies.

Perhaps you might consider eliminating the vast overhead of
the insurance companies, physician holding companies and
pharmacy benefits managers that consume better than 50%
of every healthcare dollar spent. Pure overhead with
absolutely no benifit.

Setup a single payer (perhaps like the post office) and
simplify the billing infrastructure. Save tons of money.

And Medicaid is not funded by any dedicated taxes whatsoever. It just
steals from the General Fund.

Like all government spending. It's hardly stealing, since the medicare
laws were all passed by the appropriate senate and house votes.

You really are despicable.

Obamacare funds itself by interest on school loans and taxes on employer >health insurance.

Sure, pull the other one. BTW, it's called the "affordable care act"
and is universally popular and saves a bunch of dollars that would
otherwise have been wasted on unnecessary emergency room visits
for simple colds.

"The Affordable Care Act (ACA), often called Obamacare,
is funded through a combination of spending cuts, new
taxes, and fees, as well as savings from the Medicare program."
- Google AI

In fact, I had employer health insurance two years
ago, I could not afford the $8,500/month anymore and had to drop it for
me and my employees.

And how is anything other than the greed of the insurance
companies ensuring they get their 30+% cut of the premium?

These four programs cost the USA federal government around $4 trillion
per year and their costs are rising rapidly. By 2030, these four
programs are expected to cost $6 trillion per year.

This year, 14% of the budget went to Medicare and
another 13% to "health". That's 27% of 6.4 T$, which works
out to 1.73 T$. A far cry from 4 trillion - you really need
to work on your research skills and find more reliable sources
for your information.

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 12:15:01 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

Robert Carnegie <[email protected]> wrote:

Is the crisis because the OAS fund cannot
pay elderly SS subscribers due to the government
pilfering it, or is it because the government
pilfering has to stop when the money is all gone?

The government pilfering is a problem, and it's been happening since
Reagan.

The aging population is also a problem, with fewer younger people paying
into the system as more aging people are paid by it. (And yes, higher >immigration rates can fix this one.)

Some people have made the argument that mathematically, if the cap on
income was removed from the social security witholdings, so that >billionaires were paying at the same percentage rate as millionaires
instead of the same amount, that it would solve the current OAS deficit >problem. This is true, and it's certainly a good plan from any viewpoint >except that of the very rich, but it's also kicking the can down the road
a bit since eventually the very rich are likely to get paid back a good >portion of that a generation later.

<https://ssa.tools/guides/earnings-cap>

Note that, although the /table/ starts in 1956, the text after the
table traces it back to 1937.

And it was $106,200 in 2023. So, that year, billionaires paid the same
as people making $106,200 (as, indeed, did millionaires).

Which means that raising the cap would affect a lot more people than
just millionaires and billionaires.

Having been reminded of this, your comment on getting it back are
quite correct. What would be needed is a separate payment to support
SSA (and Medicare, if needed) which does not increase the maximum
benefit amount. This might be a harder sell.

The /honest/ way (if I may use the term "honest" in this context) is
to raise the income tax rate on the highest bracket(s) and treat
/that/ as the additional SSA support payment.

But the Republicans won't do this -- they are fixated on lowering
those rates every chance they can get.

The Democrates might do this -- but they would find sexier things to
do with the money than to prop up dull old Social Security.

This is why we need /new/ political parties. Two of them, both
centrist, one slightly right (fiscally conservative) and one slightly
left (safety-net oriented, say) who will talk to each other and reach
a compromise.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 15:12:25 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 2:17 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:

Higher immigration will not fix this problem as most of the immigrants
are uneducated and cannot speak the majority language, English.

What does that have to do with being able to pay into the social security
system?

My grandparents were uneducated and my grandmother never did learn English >> even after seventy years in the country. But she ran a cheese factory and >> became a successful businessperson.

It used to be that we allowed immigration to the USA for college
graduates and English competency only. We still allow about 1.3 million >>> people per year to immigrant legally to the USA, mostly family of
existing citizens.

When was this? It certainly wasn't when my grandparents came here.
--scott

The USA immigration laws were put in place in 1925 ? and highly modified
in 1965 by Ted Kennedy, etc. I do not know about the immigration laws
prior to 1925 which were undoubtedly different.

This page <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965>
also discusses the differences from the 1925 Act. And earlier acts.
And traces the 1965 Act to a government study President Truman
directed be done in 1952.

However, as Teddy was in the Senate in 1965, I am sure he had some
part to play. Such as voting for it.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 18:21:29 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 11:57 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

It used to be that we allowed immigration to the USA for college
graduates and English competency only.

ROFLMAO

We still allow about 1.3 million
people per year to immigrant legally to the USA, mostly family of
existing citizens.

Uh, no, ICE is currently arresting and deporting non-American born
spouses of US citizens. Along with naturalized non-American born
citizens. And Hispanics or those who just look like they might be
Hispanic regardless of citizenship.

Not to mention a US Marshall now and then.

And tackling a Senator.

And the Orange Taco managed to chicken out twice in one day -- once to
his farming buddies, and once to a man intent on giving Goebbels a run
for his money -- on the exact same issue.

But, hey, anything to get his name in the headlines!

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:57:20 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> writes:

Means testing Medicare will throw a bunch of people like me, middle
income, into the valley of no health insurance. Throwing us onto
Obamacare is just another cost to the feddies.

Perhaps you might consider eliminating the vast overhead of
the insurance companies, physician holding companies and
pharmacy benefits managers that consume better than 50%
of every healthcare dollar spent. Pure overhead with
absolutely no benifit.

Setup a single payer (perhaps like the post office) and
simplify the billing infrastructure. Save tons of money.

What is the biggest Single Payer system on the planet ? Canada with 40 >million people ?

Will that work for 350 million people ?

BTW, Single Payer is the same as Medicare for all. Given that 67
million people are on Medicare in the USA at the moment, expanding that
to 100% of the citizens may or may not work. Will all doctors accept it
or will they quit / retire ? This would be a heck of an experiment.

It is strange to see you channeling Bernie and Hillary.

Medicare for All would still have the various supplemental plans
available. The Bernie/Hillary solution would not -- you are correct
about their solution being a single-payer system in Medicare for All
clothing. But calling it "Medicare for All" does not make it Medicare
for All.

This confusion of terms is one reason why I think we need two /new/
political parties, as both the major parties are simply not working.
This is more obviously true of the Republicans, dominated by MAGA, but
the Democrats are failing as well.

77 million people in the USA are on Medicaid. Given that 3 million
people word for the feddies with an average of two dependents (SWAG) and
1 million work for DOD with an average of two dependents (SWAG). So the
USA government is already covering 67 + 77 + 3 * 3 + 1 * 3 = 156 million >people for healthcare. That is a large portion of the USA population.

You do realize that State monies are used with Medicaid as well as
Federal, right?

When I was a kid growing up in Oklahoma in the 1960s, we had free
clinics all over the place. My mother used those extensively for
vaccines and sniffles. Those free clinics seem to have gone away.

Maybe you should investigate who funded them -- governments or
non-profit organizations.

BTW, two of the underlying problems are:

1) The USA does not have a "medical system". It has a "medical
industry" with a gazillion independent business organizations, each
trying to maximize profits.

2) In the USA, "medical insurance" does not exist. The whole /point/
of insurance is that most of those who pay in never see any payout
because they never have a covered loss. Even life insurance is based
on many people paying this year who will not die this year. Yet the
only success the Republicans had with the ACA has been to reduce the
penalty for not joining it when young to 0, thus causing it to cease
to be insurance.

There may, of course, be others. The heavy reliance on drugs, for
example.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:04:00 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/22/2025 9:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 18:21:29 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 11:57 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

It used to be that we allowed immigration to the USA for college
graduates and English competency only.

ROFLMAO

We still allow about 1.3 million
people per year to immigrant legally to the USA, mostly family of
existing citizens.

Uh, no, ICE is currently arresting and deporting non-American born
spouses of US citizens. Along with naturalized non-American born
citizens. And Hispanics or those who just look like they might be
Hispanic regardless of citizenship.

Not to mention a US Marshall now and then.

And tackling a Senator.

And the Orange Taco managed to chicken out twice in one day -- once to
his farming buddies, and once to a man intent on giving Goebbels a run
for his money -- on the exact same issue.

But, hey, anything to get his name in the headlines!

I knew about the Senator being tackled but I hadn't heard of US
Marshalls being deported.

One was detained. I don't think he got deported.

But if they detain every US Marshall who "looks like a Mexican",
sooner or later they /will/ deport one, since they are so ... sloppy.

Their superiors ordering them to wear masks isn't doing them any
favors, BTW. It makes them look like they know they are doing wrong,
as there is no pandemic and, except for such events as pandemics, only
people who know they are doing wrong wear masks.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 08:53:16 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/25 11:57, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 6/21/2025 11:15 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Robert Carnegie� <[email protected]> wrote:

Is the crisis because the OAS fund cannot
pay elderly SS subscribers due to the government
pilfering it, or is it because the government
pilfering has to stop when the money is all gone?

The government pilfering is a problem, and it's been happening since
Reagan.

The aging population is also a problem, with fewer younger people paying >>> into the system as more aging people are paid by it.� (And yes, higher
immigration rates can fix this one.)

Some people have made the argument that mathematically, if the cap on
income was removed from the social security witholdings, so that
billionaires were paying at the same percentage rate as millionaires
instead of the same amount, that it would solve the current OAS deficit
problem.� This is true, and it's certainly a good plan from any viewpoint >>> except that of the very rich, but it's also kicking the can down the road >>> a bit since eventually the very rich are likely to get paid back a good
portion of that a generation later.
--scott

Higher immigration will not fix this problem as most of the immigrants
are uneducated and cannot speak the majority language, English.

It used to be that we allowed immigration to the USA for college
graduates and English competency only.� We still allow about 1.3 million
people per year to immigrant legally to the USA, mostly family of
existing citizens.

Lynn

Lynn you are buying the right wing lies again. Immigrants are pursuing more
education than ever before...
Most of the undocumented would not take those jobs that Americans would
not take if they were totally able to deal with people in English.
Yesterday the
Father of several Marine sons who is pursuing the immunity due to parents
of Military was arrested by ICE as he was doing the landscaping at a chain >restaurant and they accused him of attacking them with a weed wacker when
he was trying to run away. As usual with ICE they presented no warrant and >were masked. He just had darker skin.

Huh.

I thought Trump ordered all people wearing masks to be arrested.

So why haven't the alleged ICE Agents wearing masks been -- arrested?

The excessive focus on "people who look like Mexicans" ("racism") has
been apparent for quite some time.

As has their sloppiness and inefficiency.

The effects of their efforts should be apparent next year at the food
store and on the kitchen table.

Well, unless the Orange Taco backs down again.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:37:48 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/25/2025 8:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 08:53:16 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 6/21/25 11:57, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 6/21/2025 11:15 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Robert Carnegie� <[email protected]> wrote:

Is the crisis because the OAS fund cannot
pay elderly SS subscribers due to the government
pilfering it, or is it because the government
pilfering has to stop when the money is all gone?

The government pilfering is a problem, and it's been happening since >>>>> Reagan.

The aging population is also a problem, with fewer younger people paying >>>>> into the system as more aging people are paid by it.� (And yes, higher >>>>> immigration rates can fix this one.)

Some people have made the argument that mathematically, if the cap on >>>>> income was removed from the social security witholdings, so that
billionaires were paying at the same percentage rate as millionaires >>>>> instead of the same amount, that it would solve the current OAS deficit >>>>> problem.� This is true, and it's certainly a good plan from any viewpoint >>>>> except that of the very rich, but it's also kicking the can down the road >>>>> a bit since eventually the very rich are likely to get paid back a good >>>>> portion of that a generation later.
--scott

Higher immigration will not fix this problem as most of the immigrants >>>> are uneducated and cannot speak the majority language, English.

It used to be that we allowed immigration to the USA for college
graduates and English competency only.� We still allow about 1.3 million >>>> people per year to immigrant legally to the USA, mostly family of
existing citizens.

Lynn

Lynn you are buying the right wing lies again. Immigrants are pursuing more
education than ever before...
Most of the undocumented would not take those jobs that Americans would >>> not take if they were totally able to deal with people in English.
Yesterday the
Father of several Marine sons who is pursuing the immunity due to parents >>> of Military was arrested by ICE as he was doing the landscaping at a chain >>> restaurant and they accused him of attacking them with a weed wacker when >>> he was trying to run away. As usual with ICE they presented no warrant and >>> were masked. He just had darker skin.

Huh.

I thought Trump ordered all people wearing masks to be arrested.

So why haven't the alleged ICE Agents wearing masks been -- arrested?

The excessive focus on "people who look like Mexicans" ("racism") has
been apparent for quite some time.

As has their sloppiness and inefficiency.

The effects of their efforts should be apparent next year at the food
store and on the kitchen table.

Or, its already being felt. I've seen a couple of articles about the >disappearance of the lunch trucks (aka Taco Trucks) doing curbside business.

Fair enough.

I'm afraid I am so self-centered that I mainly mean "felt by me". As
in a lack of canned fruit or frozen veggies. So far, so good. Some
higher prices, but those may have been coming for years given how long
they were stable.

But of course others are experiencing negative effects already.
Businesses that have no employees, farmers that have no field hands,
small communities whose major employer was a US gummint operation that
got DOGEd and now has no major employer, soon to be followed by
economic devastation (on a small town scale) -- I do read about this
stuff.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)