Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:40:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:

On 4/3/2025 9:00 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:

On 4/2/2025 6:10 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:

On 4/2/2025 11:42 AM, James Nicoll wrote:

In article <[email protected]>, Don <[email protected]> wrote:

THE DAY THE DOLLAR DIED by Galt (ensemble road trips) [1]

Surely, if and when the US dollar collapses, it will simply be
replaced with a new reserve currency such as the Euro. Or the US >>>>>>> could recapitulate what nations like Brazil have done and =

introduce

new currency.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA =

HA HA

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !

It's happened plenty of time in other countries over the years, and =

it

seldom hurts rich people at all.
--scott

"BRICS Nations Pushing Forward With Alternative Global Payment =

System"

=20
= >https://headlineusa.com/brics-nations-pushing-forward-with-alternative-gl= >obal-payment-system/

If the BRICS system takes off, trillions of US Dollars will flood =

back

into the USA causing immense inflation. It will finish off the =

middle

class in the USA. Who knows what happens after that ?

=20
We have a president who believes the middle class begins at $400k/yr =

and

goes up. I don't think he much cares about people who make less than = >that
and are stuck with savings in dollars.
=20
Remember the man's goal is to create inflation.... he has stated in = >public
that he wants the dollar to be worth much less so that American =

products

are more competitive on the world market.
--scott

Apple just announced that they are going to move all of their computer=20 >>plants to the USA and spend $500 billion here over the next four years.=20 >>I call that a win. There are many more companies moving their=20 >>manufacturing back to the USA. I call that a win. Those will be lots=20 >>of high paying jobs.

And higher-priced products.

Assuming that unlike Foxconn in Wisconsin, Apple actually follows
through.

Even then, as other commentators have noted, in the unlikely
event that Trump's attempts at global destabilization will result
in any new factory builds in the US, those factories will
be highly automated and employ relatively few
full-time permanent employees. They will not be
the factory assembly lines from a half century ago.

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Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 17:29:31 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

So... I am glad to see Apple bringing their plants back to the US, and I=

am

sure they will hire some people who will make good money, but I am under=

no

illusion that the kind of manufacturing jobs that we had in the = >seventies=20
will ever come back because they don't exist any longer in any country.

If they build the plants from stock, then they will also be pumping
money into the local economy's construction segment. Which should help
a lot, at least for a few years.

A significant fraction of that money is profit which benefits
a few shareholders for the construction conglomerate,
not the construction workers, electricians, et alia.

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On 4/4/2025 8:31 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 17:29:31 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:

Apple just announced that they are going to move all of their computer
plants to the USA and spend $500 billion here over the next four years.
I call that a win. There are many more companies moving their
manufacturing back to the USA. I call that a win. Those will be lots
of high paying jobs.

<snippo notes on how the robots have /already/ taken over>

So... I am glad to see Apple bringing their plants back to the US, and I am >> sure they will hire some people who will make good money, but I am under no >> illusion that the kind of manufacturing jobs that we had in the seventies
will ever come back because they don't exist any longer in any country.

If they build the plants from stock, then they will also be pumping
money into the local economy's construction segment. Which should help
a lot, at least for a few years.

One of the reasons the US is having an affordable housing shortage is a shortage of construction workers to build the housing. I suspect there
isn't a complete overlap in the workforce building factories vs. housing
but I'm pretty sure there is at least some.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

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Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> writes:

On 4/4/2025 8:31 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 17:29:31 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:

Apple just announced that they are going to move all of their computer >>>> plants to the USA and spend $500 billion here over the next four years. >>>> I call that a win. There are many more companies moving their
manufacturing back to the USA. I call that a win. Those will be lots >>>> of high paying jobs.

<snippo notes on how the robots have /already/ taken over>

So... I am glad to see Apple bringing their plants back to the US, and I am >>> sure they will hire some people who will make good money, but I am under no >>> illusion that the kind of manufacturing jobs that we had in the seventies >>> will ever come back because they don't exist any longer in any country.

If they build the plants from stock, then they will also be pumping
money into the local economy's construction segment. Which should help
a lot, at least for a few years.

One of the reasons the US is having an affordable housing shortage is a >shortage of construction workers to build the housing. I suspect there
isn't a complete overlap in the workforce building factories vs. housing
but I'm pretty sure there is at least some.

The other (and likely more impactful) reason is that it is far more
profitable for the home builders and contractors to build high-end
housing than affordable housing.

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On 4/5/2025 11:33 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> writes:

On 4/4/2025 8:31 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 17:29:31 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:

Apple just announced that they are going to move all of their computer >>>>> plants to the USA and spend $500 billion here over the next four years. >>>>> I call that a win. There are many more companies moving their
manufacturing back to the USA. I call that a win. Those will be lots >>>>> of high paying jobs.

<snippo notes on how the robots have /already/ taken over>

So... I am glad to see Apple bringing their plants back to the US, and I am
sure they will hire some people who will make good money, but I am under no
illusion that the kind of manufacturing jobs that we had in the seventies >>>> will ever come back because they don't exist any longer in any country. >>>

If they build the plants from stock, then they will also be pumping
money into the local economy's construction segment. Which should help
a lot, at least for a few years.

One of the reasons the US is having an affordable housing shortage is a
shortage of construction workers to build the housing. I suspect there
isn't a complete overlap in the workforce building factories vs. housing
but I'm pretty sure there is at least some.

The other (and likely more impactful) reason is that it is far more profitable for the home builders and contractors to build high-end
housing than affordable housing.

Given the way some large investment companies are gaming the housing
market to drive up the prices of ALL housing any "affordable" housing
quickly ceases being affordable.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:

Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> writes:

One of the reasons the US is having an affordable housing shortage is a >>shortage of construction workers to build the housing. I suspect there >>isn't a complete overlap in the workforce building factories vs. housing >>but I'm pretty sure there is at least some.

This is true, and since so many of the construction workere are Hispanic immigrants, it's not going to be getting better any time soon. Back in
the fifties in Pittsburgh they were all Italian immigrants. Now the folks
who did my roof were all Salvadorians.

The other (and likely more impactful) reason is that it is far more >profitable for the home builders and contractors to build high-end
housing than affordable housing.

THIS is the real problem at least around here. Why should I build
affordable housing when for not much more I can build a huge mansion
out of cardboard and staples and sell it for considerably more profit?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 10:19:07 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:

<snippo>

One of the reasons the US is having an affordable housing shortage is a >shortage of construction workers to build the housing. I suspect there >isn't a complete overlap in the workforce building factories vs. housing
but I'm pretty sure there is at least some.

When the pandemic came far enough under control to allow construction
to resume, there was a massive shortage of the skilled trades
(plumbers, electricians, etc). This affected not only commercial
construction projects but also home-related work by pumping up the
cost and introducing delays.

But only for a while, of course.

At least, that was my experience in Seattle.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 18:17:23 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:

Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> writes:

One of the reasons the US is having an affordable housing shortage is a >>>shortage of construction workers to build the housing. I suspect there >>>isn't a complete overlap in the workforce building factories vs. housing >>>but I'm pretty sure there is at least some.

This is true, and since so many of the construction workere are Hispanic >immigrants, it's not going to be getting better any time soon. Back in
the fifties in Pittsburgh they were all Italian immigrants. Now the folks >who did my roof were all Salvadorians.

The other (and likely more impactful) reason is that it is far more >>profitable for the home builders and contractors to build high-end
housing than affordable housing.

THIS is the real problem at least around here. Why should I build >affordable housing when for not much more I can build a huge mansion
out of cardboard and staples and sell it for considerably more profit?

Particularly in cities where the people who approve the permits are
amenable to cutting down the number of affordable units required as
the planning process goes on. Without requiring them to provide the
very off-street parking that the affordable units were a trade-off
for.

There is a /lot/ of discussion on NextDoor on this. Of course, much of
it is NIBMYism due to the historical nature of housing in NE Seattle
(lots of single-family homes in neighborhoods which have become
traditional -- my house is nearly 100 years old, and it was part of a development). But the obvious failure to get affordable housing built
(the current excuse is that, by building housing for people makeing
$100K/year or more, less expensive housing will be opened up for those
flipping burgers) is undeniable.

To some it extent it is the old old story: they don't mind "them"
cooking their food, waiting on their table, checking their groceries
out, and so on, but they don't want "them" actually living in their neighborhoods.

And when someone actually /does/ build truly affordable housing -- it
is attacked as being "too small". As if affodable housing is ever
going to produce Bill Gate's house in Medina. Or anything much beyond
a starter home, and often not even that.

Still, there is hope: so many non-affordable units are being produced
that a glut may happen, and prices drop. Real estate is a matter of
supply and demand, after all, and the builders may find that they have collectively behaved very stupidly, who can say?.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 08:31:30 -0700, Paul S Person
<[email protected]d> wrote:

So... I am glad to see Apple bringing their plants back to the US, and I am >>sure they will hire some people who will make good money, but I am under no >>illusion that the kind of manufacturing jobs that we had in the seventies >>will ever come back because they don't exist any longer in any country.

If they build the plants from stock, then they will also be pumping
money into the local economy's construction segment. Which should help
a lot, at least for a few years.

I've always found that kind of odd given that I spent most of my
"toddlerdom" very close to Cupertino...

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On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 17:34:13 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<[email protected]> wrote:

"Dark Factory" has been a term of art for several years already,
especially in China.

Humans are only there to deal with problems. Most of the time,
the line runs in darkness, unmanned.

Is THAT the kind of warehouse my electrical engineer son is building
for Amazon?!?

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On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 18:33:45 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

The other (and likely more impactful) reason is that it is far more >profitable for the home builders and contractors to build high-end
housing than affordable housing.

That is certainly what Canadian municipal politicians are saying right
about now.

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On Sun, 06 Apr 2025 08:48:36 -0700, Paul S Person
<[email protected]d> wrote:

And when someone actually /does/ build truly affordable housing -- it
is attacked as being "too small". As if affodable housing is ever
going to produce Bill Gate's house in Medina. Or anything much beyond
a starter home, and often not even that.

My daughter lives in the UK and owns a 2 storey 1700 sq ft walkup unit
which was built in 1860 and has been very well maintained and updated
through the years. I've never been there but have seen pictures and it certainly looks nice enough and not the least "Dickens-ish"

(She formerly lived in London in a neighborhood directly south of
Westminster and S of the Thames - her building was built in the 1930s
and some claimed the reason it was not bombed by the Germans is that
the design was unusual enough - basically 5 wings meeting in the
center - that they didn't bomb it to give themselves a landmark on
their way to Parliament, Westminster Abbey etc etc.)

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On 5/18/2025 9:05 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:

On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 17:34:13 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<[email protected]> wrote:

"Dark Factory" has been a term of art for several years already,
especially in China.

Humans are only there to deal with problems. Most of the time,
the line runs in darkness, unmanned.

Is THAT the kind of warehouse my electrical engineer son is building
for Amazon?!?

Most likely.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 4/04/25 10:29, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:

Apple just announced that they are going to move all of their computer
plants to the USA and spend $500 billion here over the next four years.
I call that a win. There are many more companies moving their
manufacturing back to the USA. I call that a win. Those will be lots
of high paying jobs.

No, that's the thing about manufacturing. In 2018, Trump was talking about "bringing back manufacturing to the US" but that year there was more manufacturing being done in the US (by dollars of product) than ever before. And yet, all of my relatives in Pennsylvania are lamenting that "we don't make anything in America any longer."

There is plenty of manufacturing here, it's just that there aren't a lot of manufacturing jobs. When I was a kid, I toured a TV plant which had lines and lines of young women smoking cigarettes and soldering one part in at
a time, then passing the chassis to the right. Hundreds and hundreds of employees, without very high skill levels, making good money.

I doubt "good money" as I am reminded of "Sixteen Tons". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7vDk-SSjbs

But today, I go to a similar plant and there are machines picking up boards and dropping parts on boards and running them through a wave tank and putting them in boxes and stamping shipping labels on. There are a couple of human beings on the production line making sure all the machines are doing well, and they are extremely well-paid experts. But those lines of hundreds of woman are gone.

My wife for a while was working at a fuel injector plant where they would turn the lights out on the production line most of the day, because it saved electricity when nobody was there.

So... I am glad to see Apple bringing their plants back to the US, and I am sure they will hire some people who will make good money, but I am under no illusion that the kind of manufacturing jobs that we had in the seventies will ever come back because they don't exist any longer in any country. --scott

Agreed.
In my youth on a working holiday, I worked as a spot welder in a
Brisbane oven and fridge factory repeating the same action many times
per minute. I am so pleased that less people have to do this in most places.

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On 5/18/2025 10:05 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:

On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 17:34:13 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<[email protected]> wrote:

"Dark Factory" has been a term of art for several years already,
especially in China.

Humans are only there to deal with problems. Most of the time,
the line runs in darkness, unmanned.

Is THAT the kind of warehouse my electrical engineer son is building
for Amazon?!?

A friend was working in one for a while. While highly automated it's not
lights out. You can take a tour of a warehouse..err..fulfillment center
in person if there's one local or sign up for a virtual tour.

https://www.aboutamazon.com/workplace/tours

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