On 4/1/2025 2:27 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
On 3/27/25 9:39 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
The Flowers of Vashnoi by Lois McMaster Bujold
Efforts to decontaminate a radioactive zone on Barrayar produce
an entirely unexpected discovery.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/yonder-stands-your-orphan
I spend enough of my work time reading a screen that I don't enjoy
reading for pleasure on one. But works like this one -- not available on
paper to this point -- make me sorely tempted to put up with it anyway.
Tony
Ebooks are slowly killing all of the deadtree reprints. I hate ebooks.
Lynn
In article <vshkjo$1pkr$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 4/1/2025 2:27 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
On 3/27/25 9:39 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
The Flowers of Vashnoi by Lois McMaster Bujold
Efforts to decontaminate a radioactive zone on Barrayar produce
an entirely unexpected discovery.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/yonder-stands-your-orphan
I spend enough of my work time reading a screen that I don't enjoy
reading for pleasure on one. But works like this one -- not available on >>> paper to this point -- make me sorely tempted to put up with it anyway.
Tony
Ebooks are slowly killing all of the deadtree reprints. I hate ebooks.
Lynn
Well, you could always print it out yourself. Of course then it
wouldn't be "well bound" :-)
On 4/1/2025 2:27 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
On 3/27/25 9:39 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
The Flowers of Vashnoi by Lois McMaster Bujold
Efforts to decontaminate a radioactive zone on Barrayar produce
an entirely unexpected discovery.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/yonder-stands-your-orphan
I spend enough of my work time reading a screen that I don't enjoy
reading for pleasure on one. But works like this one -- not available on paper to this point -- make me sorely tempted to put up with it anyway.
Tony
Ebooks are slowly killing all of the deadtree reprints. I hate ebooks.
Lynn
On 2/04/25 10:13, Ted Nolan<tednolan> wrote:
In article<vshkjo$1pkr$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 4/1/2025 2:27 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
On 3/27/25 9:39 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
The Flowers of Vashnoi by Lois McMaster Bujold
Efforts to decontaminate a radioactive zone on Barrayar produce
an entirely unexpected discovery.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/yonder-stands-your-orphan
I spend enough of my work time reading a screen that I don't enjoy reading for pleasure on one. But works like this one -- not available on
paper to this point -- make me sorely tempted to put up with it anyway.
Tony
Ebooks are slowly killing all of the deadtree reprints. I hate ebooks.
Lynn
Well, you could always print it out yourself. Of course then it
wouldn't be "well bound" :-)
Today I bought my seventh new Kindle, (three were for gifts), and the
only possible superior benefit of a dead tree book compared to an ebook
that I can think of is the cover staring back at you from the bookcase.
This 7 inch 300ppi power off screen shows the book cover but not in colour. With regard to Tony's original point, I occasionally read short stories
on the PC screen which I find tiring but the Paperwhite Kindles screen
is clearer than real paper for me and not tiring. But I usually read
first and read the screen later in the day.
I have stopped buying dead tree books except where I have no choice, and the >number of books I want which are not available as ebooks is dwindling. >Further, because a lot of my library is �out of print� I have been
scanning, OCRing, and ripping to EPUB a lot of my existing dead tree books. I >have also been deDRMing as many ebooks as possible. Note that some ebooks are >of very low quality; Amazon in particular screws up many history and >technical books, messing with illustrations, maps, diagrams and more. On >several occasions I have had to buy a dead tree edition specifically to get >the correct layout and then to scan and OCR it, with illustrations etc. in >the correct places, because Amazon was too damn lazy to do it right. For >example the Kindle version of James McPherson�s excellent The Battle Cry of >Freedom messes up the illustrations, despite being very not cheap. The >cheaper Kindle editions of several books are repleat with OCR errors. One of >the things I do when deDRMing a book is to run through it and correct the OCR >errors. There are several reasons why I don�t buy many Amazon books any >more.
On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 16:15:12 -0400, WolfFan <[email protected]>
wrote:
<snippo hater-of-ebooks>
I have stopped buying dead tree books except where I have no choice, and the >>number of books I want which are not available as ebooks is dwindling. >>Further, because a lot of my library is �out of print� I have been >>scanning, OCRing, and ripping to EPUB a lot of my existing dead tree books. I >>have also been deDRMing as many ebooks as possible. Note that some ebooks are >>of very low quality; Amazon in particular screws up many history and >>technical books, messing with illustrations, maps, diagrams and more. On >>several occasions I have had to buy a dead tree edition specifically to get >>the correct layout and then to scan and OCR it, with illustrations etc. in >>the correct places, because Amazon was too damn lazy to do it right. For >>example the Kindle version of James McPherson�s excellent The Battle Cry of >>Freedom messes up the illustrations, despite being very not cheap. The >>cheaper Kindle editions of several books are repleat with OCR errors. One of >>the things I do when deDRMing a book is to run through it and correct the OCR >>errors. There are several reasons why I don�t buy many Amazon books any >>more.
I haven't but nonfiction for a long time, although I am still working
through the ones I have. So I really can't comment on nonfiction
eBooks.
The graphic novel /From Hell/, even had I liked it, was enough to
convince me that Kindle, at least, is hopelessly incapable of handling
such items -- manga, graphic novels, comics collections, art books,
other categories may exist. I don't think this is a Kindle problem as
such but rather an inherent limitation.
Kindle illustrations tend to be a pain. Ignoring the OCR mishaps
("unknown object found" or something similar) for a moment, most can
be expanded to full-screen (or at least could on the older Kindles
with mechanical interfaces). Unfortunately, this produces a much
vaguer image.
I have, in the past, tried reading a PDF version of a newsletter on
Kindle. This does not work if the original has more than one column.
And, anyway, I prefer print magazines.
I suspect modern books, those that were put into final form on a
computer and printed from the file, are simply converted to (in
effect, printed to) Kindle. This generally produces higher prices and
fewer glitches. The glitches, of course, reflect a lack of
proofreading.
Older books are mostly scanned and not proofread. This is why they
don't cost a lot. I have seen books (possibly part of an omnibus, I
don't recall) where, at the bottom of a page, the Chapter Title was
badly butchered -- yet it was identical to the first line of the
chapter, which appeared immediately below the title, and that line
itself had no OCR problems. Some books are so regular in their OCR
errors that a diligent reader can eventually figure them out and just
read the book. Although I do sometimes wonder if, 3000 years from now,
faced with only the Kindle Dickens omnibus I bought, scholars will
debate endlessly if "k" was /really/ written "l:" in the age of
Dickens.
In article <[email protected]>,<snippo most of my Kindle stuff>
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 16:15:12 -0400, WolfFan <[email protected]>
wrote:
<snippo hater-of-ebooks>
I haven't but nonfiction for a long time, although I am still working >>through the ones I have. So I really can't comment on nonfiction
eBooks.
Older books are mostly scanned and not proofread. This is why they
don't cost a lot. I have seen books (possibly part of an omnibus, I
don't recall) where, at the bottom of a page, the Chapter Title was
badly butchered -- yet it was identical to the first line of the
chapter, which appeared immediately below the title, and that line
itself had no OCR problems. Some books are so regular in their OCR
errors that a diligent reader can eventually figure them out and just
read the book. Although I do sometimes wonder if, 3000 years from now, >>faced with only the Kindle Dickens omnibus I bought, scholars will
debate endlessly if "k" was /really/ written "l:" in the age of
Dickens.
As I mentioned at one time or another I read a really bad scan of
Fredric Brown's _The Screaming Mimi_ wherein every reference to "gun"
(and it's a detective story...) was replaced with "bun".
The folks at Project Gutenberg actually seem to do proof-reading and
peer review. Their version of Charteris's _Meet The Tiger_ was pristine >while the Amazon one was a head-scratcher.
On 5 Apr 2025 17:15:20 GMT, [email protected] (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,<snippo most of my Kindle stuff>
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 16:15:12 -0400, WolfFan <[email protected]>
wrote:
<snippo hater-of-ebooks>
I haven't but nonfiction for a long time, although I am still working >>>through the ones I have. So I really can't comment on nonfiction
eBooks.
That should have been "bought".
This has been happening regularly lately. Looks like /I/ need to start >proofreading myself more consistently.
Older books are mostly scanned and not proofread. This is why they
don't cost a lot. I have seen books (possibly part of an omnibus, I
don't recall) where, at the bottom of a page, the Chapter Title was
badly butchered -- yet it was identical to the first line of the
chapter, which appeared immediately below the title, and that line
itself had no OCR problems. Some books are so regular in their OCR
errors that a diligent reader can eventually figure them out and just >>>read the book. Although I do sometimes wonder if, 3000 years from now, >>>faced with only the Kindle Dickens omnibus I bought, scholars will
debate endlessly if "k" was /really/ written "l:" in the age of
Dickens.
As I mentioned at one time or another I read a really bad scan of
Fredric Brown's _The Screaming Mimi_ wherein every reference to "gun"
(and it's a detective story...) was replaced with "bun".
That's one of the easier ones -- once you figure it out you just have
to read the correct word for the mis-OCR one. A similar one in a Dumas
novel was replacing "Rue" (as in a street name) with -- well, I don't >remember what, exactly, but it was pretty clear what was going on.
Some of the harder ones are unintelligible, because they are not
repeated and have minimal context to suggest possible meanings.
The folks at Project Gutenberg actually seem to do proof-reading and
peer review. Their version of Charteris's _Meet The Tiger_ was pristine >>while the Amazon one was a head-scratcher.
I am wondering whether, if it is still in copyright, buying the Amazon
would allow one to legally download the Project Gutenberg version.
After all, a license /was/ purchased ...
I spend enough of my work time reading a screen that I don't enjoy
reading for pleasure on one. But works like this one -- not available
on paper to this point -- make me sorely tempted to put up with it
anyway.
I read ebooks on my iPad. The Kindle app is annoying but usable.
Apple’s own Books is better that the Kindle app, not a high bar to
pass. Other ebook readers are available. My favorite, Marvin, is now
dead.
Tony Nance wrote:
I spend enough of my work time reading a screen that I don't enjoy
reading for pleasure on one. But works like this one -- not available
on paper to this point -- make me sorely tempted to put up with it
anyway.
For me, there's a big difference between the desktop monitor and my
e-reader on the iPad. Although no longer a productive member of
society, I still spend a good bit of the day using the desktop for
various things.
I wasn't sure how I'd feel about e-books when I first tried, but I was >quickly won over any that's pretty much my only reading method. I never
had big stacks of unread books, and now I never run into the problem of >running out. As long as I have internet, the library and book sellers
are always open.
I have the e-reader set to dark mode, which I find very soothing, and I
can adjust the font size to the point where I don't need to bother with >reading glasses.
WolfFan wrote:
I read ebooks on my iPad. The Kindle app is annoying but usable.
Apple�s own Books is better that the Kindle app, not a high bar to
pass. Other ebook readers are available. My favorite, Marvin, is now
dead.
I also use Books (formerly iBooks) on an iPad mini, I got that as an >anniversary gift from Megacorp in like 2017. The Kindle app I don't
care for. Actually, Overdrive browser app isn't bad at all. I use that >sometimes when I have checked out a book from the library but haven't >downloaded it and transferred to Books.
One advantage to e-books is the ability to look up words or phrases.
That's especially useful with some UK books that have vernacular I
don't fully understand.
In article <vt4v2a$3u9r0$[email protected]>,
Default User <[email protected]> wrote:
Tony Nance wrote:
I spend enough of my work time reading a screen that I don't enjoy
reading for pleasure on one. But works like this one -- not available
on paper to this point -- make me sorely tempted to put up with it
anyway.
For me, there's a big difference between the desktop monitor and my >>e-reader on the iPad. Although no longer a productive member of
society, I still spend a good bit of the day using the desktop for
various things.
I wasn't sure how I'd feel about e-books when I first tried, but I was >>quickly won over any that's pretty much my only reading method. I never
had big stacks of unread books, and now I never run into the problem of >>running out. As long as I have internet, the library and book sellers
are always open.
I have the e-reader set to dark mode, which I find very soothing, and I
can adjust the font size to the point where I don't need to bother with >>reading glasses.
I have a vast ebook library and I do most of my reading using my
e-reader (or tablet, for pdfs) but the sensation of reading words
on screen is for reasons I don't understand less pleasing than
words on paper.
Default User wrote:
Tony Nance wrote:
I spend enough of my work time reading a screen that I don't enjoy
reading for pleasure on one. But works like this one -- not available
on paper to this point -- make me sorely tempted to put up with it
anyway.
For me, there's a big difference between the desktop monitor and my >>e-reader on the iPad. Although no longer a productive member of
society, I still spend a good bit of the day using the desktop for
various things.
I wasn't sure how I'd feel about e-books when I first tried, but I was >>quickly won over any that's pretty much my only reading method. I never
had big stacks of unread books, and now I never run into the problem of >>running out. As long as I have internet, the library and book sellers
are always open.
I have the e-reader set to dark mode, which I find very soothing, and I
can adjust the font size to the point where I don't need to bother with >>reading glasses.
I have a vast ebook library and I do most of my reading using my
e-reader (or tablet, for pdfs) but the sensation of reading words
on screen is for reasons I don't understand less pleasing than
words on paper.
On Wed, 9 Apr 2025 13:26:04 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
Nicoll) wrote:
In article <vt4v2a$3u9r0$[email protected]>,
Default User <[email protected]> wrote:
Tony Nance wrote:
I spend enough of my work time reading a screen that I don't enjoy
reading for pleasure on one. But works like this one -- not available
on paper to this point -- make me sorely tempted to put up with it
anyway.
For me, there's a big difference between the desktop monitor and my >>>e-reader on the iPad. Although no longer a productive member of
society, I still spend a good bit of the day using the desktop for >>>various things.
I wasn't sure how I'd feel about e-books when I first tried, but I was >>>quickly won over any that's pretty much my only reading method. I never >>>had big stacks of unread books, and now I never run into the problem of >>>running out. As long as I have internet, the library and book sellers
are always open.
I have the e-reader set to dark mode, which I find very soothing, and I >>>can adjust the font size to the point where I don't need to bother with >>>reading glasses.
I have a vast ebook library and I do most of my reading using my
e-reader (or tablet, for pdfs) but the sensation of reading words
on screen is for reasons I don't understand less pleasing than
words on paper.
Holding a reader (or not holding anything) does not have the same
tactile feel that holding a book has. Or, for that matter, the same
smell.
Dude, we agree on something !
Except when the book smells of mildew. That is just nasty. I threw out
a couple of thousand books after the Great Flood Of 1989 because they
were immersed and then mildewed.
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