Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
On 3/19/2025 6:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
Would you want to raise babies next door to North Korea?
On 3/19/2025 9:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
If one agrees that demographic collapse is a real problem, then
eventually we're going to see governments addressing it.
On the dystopian side, one could see a ban on contraception, or
even worse, compelled childbearing.
On 3/19/2025 9:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
If one agrees that demographic collapse is a real problem, then
eventually we're going to see governments addressing it.
On the dystopian side, one could see a ban on contraception, or
even worse, compelled childbearing.
More acceptable would be making bearing and raising children
highly subsidized and promoted. Turn it into a viable and secure
career choice. This would be expensive, and perhaps funded by a tax
on the childless-by-choice.
There's a zillion ways this could go, but I expect we'll see
something in the coming decades.
pt
On 3/19/2025 9:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
If one agrees that demographic collapse is a real problem, then
eventually we're going to see governments addressing it.
On the dystopian side, one could see a ban on contraception, or
even worse, compelled childbearing.
More acceptable would be making bearing and raising children
highly subsidized and promoted. Turn it into a viable and secure
career choice. This would be expensive, and perhaps funded by a tax
on the childless-by-choice.
There's a zillion ways this could go, but I expect we'll see
something in the coming decades.
Would you want to raise babies next door to North Korea?
In article <vreqff$155k7$[email protected]>,
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/19/2025 9:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
If one agrees that demographic collapse is a real problem, then
eventually we're going to see governments addressing it.
On the dystopian side, one could see a ban on contraception, or
even worse, compelled childbearing.
Also, Quadi's Vat Girls (and some Vat Boys too). I have some doubts on
how well they could be socialized.
On 3/19/2025 9:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
If one agrees that demographic collapse is a real problem, then
eventually we're going to see governments addressing it.
On the dystopian side, one could see a ban on contraception, or
even worse, compelled childbearing.
More acceptable would be making bearing and raising children
highly subsidized and promoted. Turn it into a viable and secure
career choice. This would be expensive, and perhaps funded by a tax
on the childless-by-choice.
There's a zillion ways this could go, but I expect we'll see
something in the coming decades.
If the world survives the orange clown.
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,
Robert Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
In article <vreqff$155k7$[email protected]>,
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/19/2025 9:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
If one agrees that demographic collapse is a real problem, then
eventually we're going to see governments addressing it.
On the dystopian side, one could see a ban on contraception, or
even worse, compelled childbearing.
Also, Quadi's Vat Girls (and some Vat Boys too). I have some doubts on
how well they could be socialized.
While childbirth is not exactly trivial, one requires far more resources
to turn the resulting infant into a functional adult. That's a detail
many pro-natalists prefer to ignore.
ObSF: Ethan of Athos.
Absolutely agree - subsidizing just pregnancy and birth isn't
going to be very effective.
Throwing out numbers to give an idea of the magnitudes I think would
be effective: something like a $60k payment for a birth (that's the low
end for surrogate mothers), and say, $30,000/year payment for each
child in the house. (approx the cost/year to raise a child in MA). So
a family with 3 kids would be getting $90k, around the US median
household income, plus employment income, if any.
pt
In article <vremii$13ocd$[email protected]>,
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/19/2025 6:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
Would you want to raise babies next door to North Korea?
A question lamentably relevant to Canadians, provided one replaces
North Korea with the United States of America. One cannot easily
choose whose ones neighbours are.
On 3/19/2025 9:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
If one agrees that demographic collapse is a real problem, then
eventually we're going to see governments addressing it.
On the dystopian side, one could see a ban on contraception, or
even worse, compelled childbearing.
More acceptable would be making bearing and raising children
highly subsidized and promoted. Turn it into a viable and secure
career choice. This would be expensive, and perhaps funded by a tax
on the childless-by-choice.
There's a zillion ways this could go, but I expect we'll see
something in the coming decades.
On 20/03/25 10:31, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,
Robert Woodward� <[email protected]> wrote:
In article <vreqff$155k7$[email protected]>,
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/19/2025 9:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
If one agrees that demographic collapse is a real problem, then
eventually we're going to see governments addressing it.
On the dystopian side, one could see a ban on contraception, or
even worse, compelled childbearing.
Also, Quadi's Vat Girls (and some Vat Boys too). I have some doubts on >>>> how well they could be socialized.
While childbirth is not exactly trivial, one requires far more resources >>> to turn the resulting infant into a functional adult. That's a detail
many pro-natalists prefer to ignore.
ObSF: Ethan of Athos.
Absolutely agree - subsidizing just pregnancy and birth isn't
going to be very effective.
Throwing out numbers to give an idea of the magnitudes I think would
be effective: something like a $60k payment for a birth (that's the low
end for surrogate mothers), and say, $30,000/year payment for each
child in the house. (approx the cost/year to raise a child in MA). So
a family with 3 kids would be getting $90k, around the US median
household income, plus employment income, if any.
pt
In the good old days you could apprentice them to chimney sweeps or >pickpocketers to get an early return on the investment or decrease costs
at home but nowadays closer to twenty years for leaving the nest and
there is no guarantee they will look after you in your dotage even if
you subsidise the mokopuna.
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
While childbirth is not exactly trivial, one requires far more resources
to turn the resulting infant into a functional adult. That's a detail
many pro-natalists prefer to ignore.
Absolutely agree - subsidizing just pregnancy and birth isn't
going to be very effective.
Throwing out numbers to give an idea of the magnitudes I think would
be effective: something like a $60k payment for a birth (that's the low
end for surrogate mothers), and say, $30,000/year payment for each
child in the house. (approx the cost/year to raise a child in MA). So
a family with 3 kids would be getting $90k, around the US median
household income, plus employment income, if any.
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 17:31:58 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
<snippo -- more kids needed!>
While childbirth is not exactly trivial, one requires far more resources >>> to turn the resulting infant into a functional adult. That's a detail
many pro-natalists prefer to ignore.
Absolutely agree - subsidizing just pregnancy and birth isn't
going to be very effective.
Throwing out numbers to give an idea of the magnitudes I think would
be effective: something like a $60k payment for a birth (that's the low
end for surrogate mothers), and say, $30,000/year payment for each
child in the house. (approx the cost/year to raise a child in MA). So
a family with 3 kids would be getting $90k, around the US median
household income, plus employment income, if any.
Well, that's one way to get to a Guaranteed Basic Income.
/JoJo Rabbit/ includes a female Nazi who, at a summer camp for kids,
tells the girls that she will teach them how to make beautiful Aryan
boys for the Reich. She has done it, she says, an <incredible number>
of times.
I forget the number. But I recall thinking at the time that it was
large enough that, if she had started when Hitler came to power, she
would have been producing more than one per year.
My understanding, however, is that such programs did exist in Hitler's Germany.
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
<snippo -- more kids needed!>
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
<snippo -- more kids needed!>
Today I read that "The US has the highest maternal mortality rate in the >developed world. Shockingly, it's on the rise." I have not checked this.
P 239. Careless People. Sarah Wynn Williams. 2025.
In article <vril6j$i5kg$[email protected]>, Titus G <[email protected]> wrote: >>SNIP
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
<snippo -- more kids needed!>
Today I read that "The US has the highest maternal mortality rate in the >>developed world. Shockingly, it's on the rise." I have not checked this.
P 239. Careless People. Sarah Wynn Williams. 2025.
This is sadly true, and it's more than doubled in the past twenty years.
My friend who is a doula says that some of this is because Americans are >choosing to have babies much later in life now, but most of it is due to
the lack of available medical care and Americans' reluctance to use what
care is available.
In article <vril6j$i5kg$[email protected]>, Titus G <[email protected]> wrote:
SNIP
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
<snippo -- more kids needed!>
Today I read that "The US has the highest maternal mortality rate in the
developed world. Shockingly, it's on the rise." I have not checked this.
P 239. Careless People. Sarah Wynn Williams. 2025.
This is sadly true, and it's more than doubled in the past twenty years.
My friend who is a doula says that some of this is because Americans are choosing to have babies much later in life now, but most of it is due to
the lack of available medical care and Americans' reluctance to use what
care is available.
Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:18:05 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
Nicoll) wrote:
In article <vremii$13ocd$[email protected]>,
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/19/2025 6:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia-
adjacent to be of interest.
Would you want to raise babies next door to North Korea?
A question lamentably relevant to Canadians, provided one replaces
North Korea with the United States of America. One cannot easily
choose whose ones neighbours are.
I suppose Canada will eventually use its Secret Weapon -- and outlaw
shipments of Maple Syrup to the USA.
You could, at least until recently, find American "Maple Syrup" on
the shelves here.
It's garbage, but it's sweet and cheap. Won't be so cheap, now.
And Trump thinks the MAGA outrage about egg prices are disturbing [1].
Egg smuggling from Canada and Mexico into the US has begun. Soon, eggs
with added fentanyl!
On 3/20/2025 9:18 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 3/20/2025 8:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 17:31:58 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
<snippo -- more kids needed!>
While childbirth is not exactly trivial, one requires far more
resources
to turn the resulting infant into a functional adult. That's a detail >>>>> many pro-natalists prefer to ignore.
Absolutely agree - subsidizing just pregnancy and birth isn't
going to be very effective.
Throwing out numbers to give an idea of the magnitudes I think would
be effective: something like a $60k payment for a birth (that's the low >>>> end for surrogate mothers), and say, $30,000/year payment for each
child in the house. (approx the cost/year to raise a child in MA). So
a family with 3 kids would be getting $90k, around the US median
household income, plus employment income, if any.
Well, that's one way to get to a Guaranteed Basic Income.
/JoJo Rabbit/ includes a female Nazi who, at a summer camp for kids,
tells the girls that she will teach them how to make beautiful Aryan
boys for the Reich. She has done it, she says, an <incredible number>
of times.
I forget the number. But I recall thinking at the time that it was
large enough that, if she had started when Hitler came to power, she
would have been producing more than one per year.
My understanding, however, is that such programs did exist in Hitler's
Germany.
There were what were basically brothels for the SS where they were
encouraged to impregnate as many of the pure Aryan women there as they
could.� And in some parts of Nazi society such women were well thought of. >>
This is a bit of an exaggeration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn
SNIP
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
<snippo -- more kids needed!>
Today I read that "The US has the highest maternal mortality rate in the >developed world. Shockingly, it's on the rise." I have not checked this.
P 239. Careless People. Sarah Wynn Williams. 2025.
On 3/21/2025 6:52 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article <vril6j$i5kg$[email protected]>, Titus G <[email protected]> wrote:
SNIP
On 3/19/2025 1:17 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
<snippo -- more kids needed!>
Today I read that "The US has the highest maternal mortality rate in the >>> developed world. Shockingly, it's on the rise." I have not checked this. >>> P 239. Careless People. Sarah Wynn Williams. 2025.
This is sadly true, and it's more than doubled in the past twenty years.
My friend who is a doula says that some of this is because Americans are
choosing to have babies much later in life now, but most of it is due to
the lack of available medical care and Americans' reluctance to use what
care is available.
And the fact that one of our two political parties does everything it
can to stamp out affordable medical care, government assistance and
birth control.
Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 18:23:24 -0400, William Hyde
<[email protected]> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:18:05 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
Nicoll) wrote:
In article <vremii$13ocd$[email protected]>,
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 3/19/2025 6:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
Apartment Women by Gu Byeong-Mo
The Dream Future Pilot Communal Apartments is a bold attempt to
address South Korea's negligible birthrate. In exchange for new
homes in an invigorating rural setting, certain conditions need
to be met.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/babies-forever
Technically, not SF or even futuristic but sufficienty dystopia- >>>>>>> adjacent to be of interest.
Would you want to raise babies next door to North Korea?
A question lamentably relevant to Canadians, provided one replaces
North Korea with the United States of America. One cannot easily
choose whose ones neighbours are.
I suppose Canada will eventually use its Secret Weapon -- and outlaw
shipments of Maple Syrup to the USA.
You could, at least until recently, find American "Maple Syrup" on
the shelves here.
It's garbage, but it's sweet and cheap. Won't be so cheap, now.
Doesn't matter to me. I only get Maple as a flavor in snacks/junk
food. And only occasionally. When those disappear due to a cut-off,
I'll get by just fine without them. Might even lose a few ounces, who
can say?
And Trump thinks the MAGA outrage about egg prices are disturbing [1].
Egg smuggling from Canada and Mexico into the US has begun. Soon, eggs
with added fentanyl!
Only in the minds of TDS sufferers -- the /real/ TDS, not the TDS
being projected on sane people by Republicans.
Oh, wait, was that humor? If so, never mind.
The egg part was serious, the fentanyl not.
Fentanyl pills can be bought for as little as $1 in Spokane, but the
minimum price in Vancouver is $10. Little as I respect drug pushers, I
am certain they can distinguish between one and ten.
Or they could google to see if ten is really bigger than one. Might
get the wrong answer, though.
And Trump thinks the MAGA outrage about egg prices are disturbing [1].
Of course, as new chickens hatch and mature, the egg supply will
recover and prices will, if not drop, at least not increase any more
than any others.
On 2025-03-20, Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
And Trump thinks the MAGA outrage about egg prices are disturbing [1].
Of course, as new chickens hatch and mature, the egg supply will
recover and prices will, if not drop, at least not increase any more
than any others.
I don't understand. If they don't have chicken eggs, why don't
they eat quail eggs?
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