Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred billion
dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it
in Atlantic.
Lynn
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
��� https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.� Uncle has given several hundred billion
dollars to Ukraine.� Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it
in Atlantic.
Lynn
����Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
����Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
����But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
����Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
����bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes
and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good because the >underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a >satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred billion
dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire and thrown
it in Atlantic.
Lynn
Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes
and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.
Lynn
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire
and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn
Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good
because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do,
Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will
end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn
My you are a fearful pessimist.
bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.
Lynn
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire
and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn
Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good
because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do,
Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will
end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn
My you are a fearful pessimist.
bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.
On 1/10/2025 6:47 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
On 1/9/2025 3:20 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred billion
dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it >>>> in Atlantic.
Lynn
I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.
Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it. Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.
for some time now.
On 1/10/2025 10:39 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 1/10/2025 6:47 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
On 1/9/2025 3:20 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred billion >>>>> dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it >>>>> in Atlantic.
Lynn
I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.
Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it. Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.
for some time now.
I don't want to just see Ukraine get back its territory.
I'd like to see the Russian Empire broken up, and simply
unable to attack the West again.
We're getting close:
The Russian economy is getting mighty shaky, with 18%
interest rates, and about 20% inflation.
Russia is rapidly running out of war machines, and can't
manufacture them at anything like the rate at which they're
being destroyed.
Similarly for manpower - he's having to bring in troops
from North Korea, and Russian meat wave tactics run through
men very, very quickly.
It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.
We need to keep the pressure up.
pt
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a >satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:����Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
��� https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.� Uncle has given several hundred billion >>>>> dollars to Ukraine.� Might as well set the money on fire and thrown >>>>> it in Atlantic.
Lynn
�����Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
�����Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
�����But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
�����Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
�����bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?� The loans are no good
because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it.� We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine
will be a satellite of Russia.� Any difference from that will end in
nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn
����My you are a fearful pessimist.
������� bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:us
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
=A0=A0=A0 https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.=A0 Uncle has given several hundred = >billion=20
dollars to Ukraine.=A0 Might as well set the money on fire and = >thrown=20
it in Atlantic.
Lynn
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to = >understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to >>>>> take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But the money is spent with our allies who buy from =
USA.=A0=A0=A0=A0Europe continues its support at higher levels than the =or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old=20
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?=A0 The loans are no = >good=20
because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it.=A0 We have sent blood and=20 >>>> treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally=20
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do, = >Ukraine=20
will be a satellite of Russia.=A0 Any difference from that will end = >in=20
nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0My you are a fearful pessimist.
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of=20 >>the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under=20 >>the Kremlin for two years now.
Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:billion=20
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
=A0=A0=A0 https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.=A0 Uncle has given several hundred =
thrown=20dollars to Ukraine.=A0 Might as well set the money on fire and =
understandit in Atlantic.
Lynn
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to =
ushow that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite >>>>>> the Russians to come and be killed.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to >>>>>> take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But the money is spent with our allies who buy from =
good=20or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer >>>>>> which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old=20
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?=A0 The loans are no =
Ukraine=20because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it.=A0 We have sent blood and=20 >>>>> treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally=20
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do, =
in=20will be a satellite of Russia.=A0 Any difference from that will end =
USA.nuclear weapon exchanges.=A0=A0=A0=A0Europe continues its support at higher levels than the =
Lynn
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0My you are a fearful pessimist.
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of=20 >>> the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under=20 >>> the Kremlin for two years now.
Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?
Most analysts favor that the belief that Putin is worried about
being assassinated is a prime factor in his seclusion.
(Weren't the original assassins from what is now known as Syria?)
On 1/10/25 10:44, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:billion=20
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
=A0=A0=A0 https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09 >>>>>>>>
Yeah, we knew that already.=A0 Uncle has given several hundred =
thrown=20dollars to Ukraine.=A0 Might as well set the money on fire and =
understandit in Atlantic.
Lynn
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to =
good=20how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the >>>>>>> hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite >>>>>>> the Russians to come and be killed.Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to >>>>>>> take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But the money is spent with our allies who buy from = >>> us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer >>>>>>> which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch >>>>>>
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?=A0 The loans are no =
Ukraine=20because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it.=A0 We have sent blood
and=20
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally=20
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do, =
will be a satellite of Russia.=A0 Any difference from that will end = >>> in=20=A0=A0=A0=A0Europe continues its support at higher levels than the = >>> USA.
nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0My you are a fearful pessimist.
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired
of=20
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter
under=20
the Kremlin for two years now.
Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?
Most analysts favor that the belief that Putin is worried about
being assassinated is a prime factor in his seclusion.
(Weren't the original assassins from what is now known as Syria?)
Definetely nearby at the Fortress of the Old Man of the Mountain
but they may have been copying Chinese Ninja. According to legend the
Old Man showed them Paradise via hashish (not just cannabis) and other
drugs of the time. Then with rigorous training he sent them into the
palaces and castles of those who would suppress his taxation of the
trade routes and when they planned to do the Old Man some harm they
activated to kill the planner.
bliss - hobbiing along
On 1/10/2025 12:02 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of
the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under
the Kremlin for two years now.
Lynn
How do you know that Putin has been living in his
bomb shelter?
He has been trying of course to get the rest of the
world living in bomb shelters since he started his rants
about super weapons such as hypersonic missiles.
bliss - hobbling about
Because that is where Tucker Carlson interviewed him on Feb 6, 2024 last year. I highly recommend the two hour plus interview. It starts off
with a one hour history lesson about Russia by Putin.
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-vladimir-putin-interview
Lynn
On 1/10/2025 10:23 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
...
I don't want to just see Ukraine get back its territory.
I'd like to see the Russian Empire broken up, and simply
unable to attack the West again.
We're getting close:
The Russian economy is getting mighty shaky, with 18%
interest rates, and about 20% inflation.
Russia is rapidly running out of war machines, and can't
manufacture them at anything like the rate at which they're
being destroyed.
Similarly for manpower - he's having to bring in troops
from North Korea, and Russian meat wave tactics run through
men very, very quickly.
It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.
We need to keep the pressure up.
pt
Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.
Lynn
On 1/10/2025 12:32 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum
for some time now.
Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian
Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus >> and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part
of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible
job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were
part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never
should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which
were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually
part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how weak
this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about Ukraine.
And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott
Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland. Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do.
Lynn
On 1/10/2025 5:02 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/10/25 13:46, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/10/2025 12:32 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum >>>>> for some time now.
Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian
Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic
possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon
tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want
Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been
part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible
job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were
part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never
should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states
which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually
part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how
weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is
that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about
Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but
not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott
Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do. >>>
Lynn
` He will only do what we allow him to do.
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
bliss - hobble on, hobble on.
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.
Huh.
I thought of you as a patriotic American.
Not as a fan of Putin.
And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?
I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow? Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?
On 1/10/25 16:14, Lynn McGuire wrote:
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn
On 1/10/2025 6:36 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/10/25 16:14, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/10/2025 5:02 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/10/25 13:46, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/10/2025 12:32 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" >>>>>>> drum
for some time now.
Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian
Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic
possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon >>>>>> tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want >>>>>> Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian >>>>>> Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been
part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a
terrible job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were >>>>>> part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never
should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states
which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not
actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied >>>>>> states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how >>>>>> weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here
is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about
Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but
not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott
Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to >>>>> do.
Lynn
` He will only do what we allow him to do.
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
bliss - hobble on, hobble on.
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn
I hope there are plenty of people who believe
the capacity to mount a strong attackl is the best
defense.
We have investing billion or even trillions
of dollars in war machinery and it had better work
as the contractors who collected the profits stated
or we will be very unhappy.
You seem to be the sort of America First pacifist
who rallied with the German-American Bund in the 1930s
at venues such as Madison Square Garden.
A shopkeeper who will not raise a hand in
the defense of the nation as the NAZIs advised the
Japanese in the 1930s.
Shame on you.
bliss
*PLONK*
On 1/9/2025 8:39 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and destruction of the Russian economy.
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred billion >>>>>> dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it >>>>>> in Atlantic.
Lynn
Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes >>>> and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good because the >>>> underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed. >>>> The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a >>>> satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear weapon >>>> exchanges.
Lynn
My you are a fearful pessimist.
bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of the >> nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under the
Kremlin for two years now.
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.
Huh.
I thought of you as a patriotic American.
Not as a fan of Putin.
And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?
I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow? Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred billion >>>>> dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it >>>>> in Atlantic.
Lynn
Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes
and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good because the
underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear weapon >>> exchanges.
Lynn
My you are a fearful pessimist.
bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under the Kremlin for two years now.
Lynn
On 1/10/25 07:39, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 1/10/2025 6:47 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum for
On 1/9/2025 3:20 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred billion >>>>> dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it >>>>> in Atlantic.
Lynn
I would not have pegged Lynn as one of Putin's Useful Idiots.
Given his book reviews are mostly prepper porn, one
should have expected it. Lynn _wants_ to see the disintegration
of the United States.
some time now.
Actually Russia should be part of the Ukrainian State if you
go back far enough in History. But the Ukrainian nation sparked Russia.
Kiev should be the capital. Most of Russian history started with Kiev.
What Mr.McGuire seems to miss is that Hitler started WW II
with similar moves. Trump echoes Hitler with his demand for nations
to yield national sovereignty as with Panama, Mexico, Canada and
Denmark with Greenland. He unlike Putin who tried to sneak up on
take the Ukraine without formal notice of annexations and who
calls it a "Special Military Operation" instead of a war.
Of course I was a civilian child during WW II and just
knew what was broadcast and when I learned to read it took me
years to get back to paying attention to WW II. It was over by
then and Japan our West Coast bugaboo was recovering thanks to
the Korean War.
bliss - hobbling along.
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:billion=20
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
=A0=A0=A0 https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.=A0 Uncle has given several hundred =
thrown=20dollars to Ukraine.=A0 Might as well set the money on fire and =
understandit in Atlantic.
Lynn
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to =
ushow that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite >>>>>> the Russians to come and be killed.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to >>>>>> take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But the money is spent with our allies who buy from =
good=20or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer >>>>>> which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old=20
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?=A0 The loans are no =
Ukraine=20because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it.=A0 We have sent blood and=20 >>>>> treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally=20
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do, =
in=20will be a satellite of Russia.=A0 Any difference from that will end =
USA.nuclear weapon exchanges.=A0=A0=A0=A0Europe continues its support at higher levels than the =
Lynn
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0My you are a fearful pessimist.
=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of=20 >>> the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under=20 >>> the Kremlin for two years now.
Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?
Most analysts favor that the belief that Putin is worried about
being assassinated is a prime factor in his seclusion.
(Weren't the original assassins from what is now known as Syria?)
On 1/10/2025 5:02 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/10/25 13:46, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/10/2025 12:32 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" drum >>>>> for some time now.
Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian Empire >>>> of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic possibilities >>>> as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon tried. >>>> In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want Belarus >>>> and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian
Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been part of >>>> the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a terrible job >>>> Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were part >>>> of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never should >>>> have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states which >>>> were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not actually part >>>> of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied
states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how weak >>>> this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here is that >>>> the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about Ukraine. And >>>> yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but not as >>>> expensive as the alternative.
--scott
Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to do. >>>
Lynn
` He will only do what we allow him to do.
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
bliss - hobble on, hobble on.
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn
On 1/10/2025 7:53 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
...
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn
I'm not a war monger, but you seem to be Neville Chamberlain.
This isn't something we can negotiate. Putin must be taken down.
pt
Tell you what Pete, lets send your children to war this time. I have already sent my son to war twice. The first time he came back to us severely damaged (double concussion, wouldn't let him come home for a month until his eyes start focusing) but better than four of his buddies who did not come back. One of his buddies died right next to him and the Iraqi turncoat turned the AK on my son but had run out of bullets so my son shot him ten times with his pistol. The second time he came back in fairly good shape even though his platoon were bodyguards to the US Marine Colonel of their battalion and driving him all over western Iraq for a year trying to keep a civil war from starting.
My son is now 41 and a noncommisioned officer (corporal). He spent 8 years in the Corps (4 active, 4 reserve) and is subject to callup until he is 46. He figures that he will be an instructor if he gets called up but we never expected him to get sent to 100 yards away from Syria and constantly fighting gun and mortar battles with them from Iraq. To this day he cannot go to a fireworks display and it has been 18 years.
Lynn
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:39:17 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under=20 >>>the Kremlin for two years now.
Because he is so badly off physically that he cannot leave it?
Most analysts favor that the belief that Putin is worried about
being assassinated is a prime factor in his seclusion.
(Weren't the original assassins from what is now known as Syria?)
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:����Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA.
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
��� https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already.� Uncle has given several hundred billion >>>>>> dollars to Ukraine.� Might as well set the money on fire and thrown it >>>>>> in Atlantic.
Lynn
�����Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand
how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the
hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite
the Russians to come and be killed.
�����Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
�����But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us
or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
�����Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
�����bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old platitudes >>>> and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ?� The loans are no good because the >>>> underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it.� We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed. >>>> The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a >>>> satellite of Russia.� Any difference from that will end in nuclear weapon >>>> exchanges.
Lynn
����My you are a fearful pessimist.
������� bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of the >> nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under the >> Kremlin for two years now.
Lynn
This is incorrect. The moment Putin reaches for the button, his head will
be served up to the Brussels Nobility by his brutuses. They want nothing >more than get their toys back in europe. If putin were to reach for the >button, they see a lifetime of isolation and starvation, so they will kill >him quickly, apologize, and install a new leader.
Putin knows this, which is why his position is getting weaker and wearker >every day.
First it was monetary support that was going to lead to nuclear war, then
it was tanks, then it was planes, now I think it is long range missiles
and troops of the ground.
Putins threats are hollow, and slowly the politicians will realize this,
and then the war will be ended quickly.
On 1/10/2025 9:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed.
The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a
satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.
Huh.
I thought of you as a patriotic American.
Not as a fan of Putin.
And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?
I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow?
Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?
Didn't they already do that last one?
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote:
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
This is an incorrect statement. We are strategic peace mongers. It did not >end well when the world allowed Hitler to grab what he wanted. Likewise, >allowing Putin to get away with it, will not end well.
We finish the fight hard, kick out Putin, restructure russia, and all will >be well.
Doing nothing will end in ww3.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Actually Russia should be part of the Ukrainian State if you
go back far enough in History. But the Ukrainian nation sparked Russia.
Kiev should be the capital. Most of Russian history started with Kiev.
This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe. >Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the >eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is >derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name
for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 18:07:56 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 9:33 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 18:42:55 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snippo prior Putin/Trump Talking Points>
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and
treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally screwed. >>>> The end result will be the same no matter what we do, Ukraine will be a >>>> satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will end in nuclear
weapon exchanges.
Huh.
I thought of you as a patriotic American.
Not as a fan of Putin.
And the nuclear exchange threat is getting a bit ... old, don't you
think?
I mean, Ukraine has actually /invaded/ the Russian Federation
somewhere near Kursk (one of the turning points of WW2, BTW). What
must they do to produce a nuclear exchange? Conquer and occupy Moscow?
Destroy Putin's favorite dacha?
Didn't they already do that last one?
That may be why I thought of it. Then again, maybe it wasn't his
/favorite/ dacha, just one of the others. If there are others.
On 1/10/2025 8:09 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 1/10/2025 1:43 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/10/2025 10:23 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:We have canned sunshine too and ours are much more likely to actually
...
I don't want to just see Ukraine get back its territory.
I'd like to see the Russian Empire broken up, and simply
unable to attack the West again.
We're getting close:
The Russian economy is getting mighty shaky, with 18%
interest rates, and about 20% inflation.
Russia is rapidly running out of war machines, and can't
manufacture them at anything like the rate at which they're
being destroyed.
Similarly for manpower - he's having to bring in troops
from North Korea, and Russian meat wave tactics run through
men very, very quickly.
It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.
We need to keep the pressure up.
pt
Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.
work.
Got proof that our canned sunshine is going to work ? The USA has not tested a nuclear weapon since 1992.
Russia is even worse, they last tested a nuclear weapon in 1990
(actually Soviet Union).
On 1/11/2025 6:43 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/10/2025 5:02 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/10/25 13:46, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/10/2025 12:32 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
He's also been beating "The Ukrainians should be part of Russia" >>>>>>> drum
for some time now.
Putin has for some time been talking about restoring the Russian
Empire of
the 19th century, and he will talk about various strategic
possibilities
as if he is planning for a land invasion of the type that Napoleon >>>>>> tried.
In many ways he seems to work hard to emulate the czars.
So, sure, he wants Ukraine. And when he's got Ukraine he'll want >>>>>> Belarus
and Armenia and then the Baltic states.
Now... the big question is will he want Poland? When the Russian >>>>>> Revolution
happened, the Soviets let go of Poland which had previously been
part of the
Russian Empire. Putin has talked extensively about what a
terrible job Lenin
did in giving away parts of the empire and allowing SSRs that were >>>>>> part of
the Soviet union a degree of autonomy that he believes they never
should have
been granted.
In the Soviet era, Poland was just one of the Warsaw Pact states
which were
allied and somewhat controlled by the Soviet Union but not
actually part of
the Soviet union. (This was because they wanted a barrier of allied >>>>>> states in order to block a land invasion.) Putin talks about how >>>>>> weak this
arrangement was, and wants something stronger. The problem here
is that
the Poles don't like Russia very much.
So.... yeah, this is why the war in Ukraine isn't just about
Ukraine. And
yeah, it's an expensive war for Europe and the US to conduct, but
not as
expensive as the alternative.
--scott
Poland is part of NATO. We will not allow Putin to take Poland.
Nevertheless, Poland is arming itself.
Putin already took Crimea and Georgia. He will do what he wants to >>>>> do.
Lynn
` He will only do what we allow him to do.
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
You seem to have missed the message of WW II
which is that we can take a lot of punishment and still
beat the totaliltarian dictators.
Remember Pearl Harbor and the loss of most of
the Pacific Fleet? The futile attacks on the West Coast.
The incendary ballons sent to the Pacific Northwest?
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
bliss - hobble on, hobble on.
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn
This is an incorrect statement. We are strategic peace mongers. It did
not end well when the world allowed Hitler to grab what he wanted.
Likewise, allowing Putin to get away with it, will not end well.
We finish the fight hard, kick out Putin, restructure russia, and all
will be well.
Doing nothing will end in ww3.
The USA has been in constant war since WWII. Several of my uncles and
my wife's uncles fought in Korea and Vietnam. One of my cousins was in
the Army in Korea, several of my wife's cousins fought in Vietnam. My
son fought in Iraq. I vote that we let Europe fight it out this time on their own. There will be more wars coming after this one.
Lynn
Because that is where Tucker Carlson interviewed him on Feb 6, 2024 last >year. I highly recommend the two hour plus interview. It starts off
with a one hour history lesson about Russia by Putin.
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-vladimir-putin-interview
This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look at
the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion with
the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are stealing
kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow and St
Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry, it is
game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost managed
to take over Moscow without any resistance.
Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ? I have read that the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's orders.
I have never been in Russia or Ukraine. I used to sell my Chemical Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me down. Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines, compressor stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities were designed using my software. My agent, a Russian university professor, has left Russia and taken his family out. They tried to go to Germany but were denied access.
I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while. I still have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and a couple of others. I sell my software all over the world.
Lynn
Lynn
This is an incorrect statement. We are strategic peace mongers. It did not >> end well when the world allowed Hitler to grab what he wanted. Likewise,
allowing Putin to get away with it, will not end well.
We finish the fight hard, kick out Putin, restructure russia, and all will >> be well.
Doing nothing will end in ww3.
The USA has been in constant war since WWII. Several of my uncles and my wife's uncles fought in Korea and Vietnam. One of my cousins was in the Army in Korea, several of my wife's cousins fought in Vietnam. My son fought in Iraq. I vote that we let Europe fight it out this time on their own. There will be more wars coming after this one.
Lynn
This is incorrect. The moment Putin reaches for the button, his head will
be served up to the Brussels Nobility by his brutuses. They want nothing
more than get their toys back in europe. If putin were to reach for the
button, they see a lifetime of isolation and starvation, so they will kill >> him quickly, apologize, and install a new leader.
Putin knows this, which is why his position is getting weaker and wearker
every day.
First it was monetary support that was going to lead to nuclear war, then
it was tanks, then it was planes, now I think it is long range missiles
and troops of the ground.
Putins threats are hollow, and slowly the politicians will realize this,
and then the war will be ended quickly.
Hitler wasn't all that easy to kill, even by the military.
NATO troops on the ground might best be avoided, as might missiles
launched outside of Ukraine.
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
On 1/10/2025 6:15 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Our military is much more competent and not so corrupt that officers
Got proof that our canned sunshine is going to work ? The USA has not
tested a nuclear weapon since 1992.
Russia is even worse, they last tested a nuclear weapon in 1990
(actually Soviet Union).
sell critical parts and components on the black market and our enlisted
are not permanently drunk.
Hitler wasn't all that easy to kill, even by the military.
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.
On 1/11/2025 6:31 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 1/9/2025 8:39 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA. >>>>>
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred
billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire >>>>>>>> and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn
Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand >>>>>>> how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the >>>>>>> hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite >>>>>>> the Russians to come and be killed.
Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to
take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the
USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though
they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us >>>>>>> or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment
make more tools of War and profit immensely.
Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer
which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier,
but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no
good because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and >>>>>> treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally
screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do,
Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that
will end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn
My you are a fearful pessimist.
bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired
of the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter
under the Kremlin for two years now.
destruction of the Russian economy.
This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look
at the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion
with the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are
stealing kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow
and St Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get
angry, it is game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost
managed to take over Moscow without any resistance.
Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ?
On 1/11/2025 6:46 PM, D wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 13:35:28 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
<snippo>
Actually Russia should be part of the Ukrainian State if you >>>>> go back far enough in History. But the Ukrainian nation sparked Russia. >>>>> Kiev should be the capital. Most of Russian history started with Kiev. >>>>This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe. >>>> Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13] >>>> more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around >>>> the
eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is >>>> derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name >>>> for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]
While I was waiting for my Russian Basic class to begin, I did some
reading. I found out a lot about Siberian folk religions but I also
found the Scandanavian connection; indeed, IIRC, what I read suggested
that a fair number of common Russian names for people are derived from
Scandanavia. Among other things.
This is very interesting. Do you have any links or more information? In
terms of siberian folk religions, I have a theory that the religions and
customs of the early vikings at some point crossed with the siberian folk
religions. This is not proven, but I would not be surprised if there's been >> some influence back and forth between the two.
This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.
I will call them white russians until they are a democracy and they have
renamed what ever sweden is called in their language to "sverige". Then we >> can talk. As long as Lukashenko is there, I will not comply.
Another theory is that they are, in fact, Finns.
Finns? Very interesting. How did you get that connection? I thought the
finns and the hungarians, and to a certain extent, the estonians where off >> by themselves in a corner doing their thing.
[1] Also known as "White Russians" -- but not in the political sense,
that is, not as contrasted with the "Red Russians" in the post-WWI
Civil War.
Scandanavian Vikings penetrated far into what is now Russia, sailing
up rivers, and protaging between them. They even got down to the
Black Sea, and Constantinople, as attested by multiple runic
graffiti in the Hagia Sophia.
While the 'Rus' name *may* be cognate with a Norse word for 'red',
they don't seem to have affected Slavic culture much. However,
Wikipedia says:
"According to the Primary Chronicle, the word Rus' is derived from the
Rus' people, who were a Swedish tribe, and where the three original
members of the Rurikid dynasty came from.[34] The Finnish word for
Swedes, ruotsi, has the same origin.[35] Later archeological studies
mostly confirmed this theory.[36]"
pt
On 1/11/2025 5:37 PM, D wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote:
This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look at >>>> the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion with >>>> the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are stealing >>>> kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow and St
Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry, it is >>>> game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost managed >>>> to take over Moscow without any resistance.
Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ? I have read
that the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's
orders.
No, I do not think so. I think there are at least several people between
Putin
and the button.
I have never been in Russia or Ukraine. I used to sell my Chemical
Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me
down. Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines,
compressor stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities were >>> designed using my software. My agent, a Russian university professor, has >>> left Russia and taken his family out. They tried to go to Germany but
were denied access.
Were you able to help him? Where did he end up in the end? A member of a
team i
mgmt was let go after I terminated my consulting gig, due to having a
double
swedish/russian passport. There are many good russians who the current
catastrophy has punished. In his case, I was a reference for him and gave
him
very good references and reviews, so all finished well with a new job after >> 3-4
months (out of 3 where paid vacation) and a salary that was 30% higher than >> in
his previous job. =)
I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while. I
still have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and a
couple of others. I sell my software all over the world.
You are a good businessman! I have 1 small piece of software, and a
systems-creation in the form of lab environments for students, but I only
sell
it in one country to a few schools.
Lynn
No, he had to do this on his own as I do not know anything about the region. He eventually moved himself and his family to Azerbaijan which I was surprised to think that it was better than Russia.
My employees and I write and sell this software. My father started the business in 1968 when he was a chemical engineering prof at the University of Oklahoma.
https://www.winsim.com/
Lynn
On 1/11/2025 8:11 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 1/11/2025 3:03 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/11/2025 6:31 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 1/9/2025 8:39 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:52 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Because his own people are getting upset over the casualties and
On 1/9/25 16:42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/9/2025 5:09 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Europe continues its support at higher levels than the USA. >>>>>>>
On 1/9/25 12:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Uncle Is Not Good With Money
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/01/09 >>>>>>>>>>
Yeah, we knew that already. Uncle has given several hundred >>>>>>>>>> billion dollars to Ukraine. Might as well set the money on fire >>>>>>>>>> and thrown it in Atlantic.
Lynn
Like your brilliant leader, Mr.T, you fail to understand >>>>>>>>> how that works. We put billions in loans and war equipment in the >>>>>>>>> hands of the Ukranians and they kill Russians. They did not invite >>>>>>>>> the Russians to come and be killed.
Vlad Putin the senior Oligarch of Russia sent them to >>>>>>>>> take over the Ukrainian Nation, a nation recognized by the
UN and other organizations. Russia under the Czars, under the >>>>>>>>> USSR especially under Stalin was treated very badly so though >>>>>>>>> they Ukrainians and the Russian are cousins they wanted to
be separate from Russia.
But the money is spent with our allies who buy from us >>>>>>>>> or build their own war equipment. Our makers of war equipment >>>>>>>>> make more tools of War and profit immensely.
Over all the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer >>>>>>>>> which should make your pal of the billionaires much happier, >>>>>>>>> but maybe we can keep the Ukrainians somewhat free.
bliss - the hobbler would use a rifle for a crutch
Got some real numbers proving that instead of a bunch of old
platitudes and pie in the sky wishiwashiness ? The loans are no good >>>>>>>> because the underlying collateral has been destroyed.
Ukraine is a disaster and Europe knows it. We have sent blood and >>>>>>>> treasure to a foreign power once again and are getting totally >>>>>>>> screwed. The end result will be the same no matter what we do, >>>>>>>> Ukraine will be a satellite of Russia. Any difference from that will >>>>>>>> end in nuclear weapon exchanges.
Lynn
My you are a fearful pessimist.
bliss
Yes. That is why Berlin will be nuked first when Putin gets tired of >>>>>> the nonsense.
Why do you think that Putin has been living in his bomb shelter under >>>>>> the Kremlin for two years now.
destruction of the Russian economy.
This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look at >>>> the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion with >>>> the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are stealing >>>> kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow and St
Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry, it is >>>> game over.
Also note that russia has a hollow defense. The wagner guy almost managed >>>> to take over Moscow without any resistance.
Do you think that Putin can launch nukes if he wants to ? I have read
that the Russian general in charge of the nukes will not take Putin's
orders.
I have never been in Russia or Ukraine. I used to sell my Chemical
Engineering process simulation software in both before the war shut me
down. Most, if not all, of the Russian / Ukranian / German pipelines,
compressor stations, and natural gas treating / processing facilities were >>> designed using my software. My agent, a Russian university professor, has >>> left Russia and taken his family out. They tried to go to Germany but
were denied access.
I have been in Europe many times, even lived in London for a while. I
still have customers in Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden, Norway, and a
couple of others. I sell my software all over the world.
Do you have any insights into the 1982 Trans-Siberian gas pipeline
explosion, which was alledgedly caused by CIA-modified Western
software?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss
pt
I can neither confirm nor deny any knowledge of the CIA's involvement in the tragedy.
Lynn
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote:
in Korea, several of my wife's cousins fought in Vietnam. My son fought in >> Iraq. I vote that we let Europe fight it out this time on their own. There >> will be more wars coming after this one.
It might sound strange, but I actually understand this point of view 100%, and >that is why I would not, and cannot criticize the US if it decides to drop >ukraine. I would of course be sad, and I do not think it would make for a safer
world, in fact, I think it will make for a much worse conflict further down the
line that the US will be pulled into, but... I do understand that the US cannot
play world police forever, and I think it is 100% true that the EU should start
to take responsibility itself, instead of riding on the US.
This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look at
the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion with
the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are stealing >kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow and St >Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry, it is
game over.
Do you have any insights into the 1982 Trans-Siberian gas pipeline
explosion, which was alledgedly caused by CIA-modified Western
software?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss
On 1/10/2025 6:15 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/10/2025 8:09 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:Our military is much more competent and not so corrupt that officers
On 1/10/2025 1:43 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/10/2025 10:23 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:We have canned sunshine too and ours are much more likely to actually
...
I don't want to just see Ukraine get back its territory.
I'd like to see the Russian Empire broken up, and simply
unable to attack the West again.
We're getting close:
The Russian economy is getting mighty shaky, with 18%
interest rates, and about 20% inflation.
Russia is rapidly running out of war machines, and can't
manufacture them at anything like the rate at which they're
being destroyed.
Similarly for manpower - he's having to bring in troops
from North Korea, and Russian meat wave tactics run through
men very, very quickly.
It looks like he can keep it up for less than a year before
things collapse.
We need to keep the pressure up.
pt
Yeah, putting pressure on the guy who owns 14,000 canned sunshine
missiles is going to go well. Not.
work.
Got proof that our canned sunshine is going to work ? The USA has not
tested a nuclear weapon since 1992.
Russia is even worse, they last tested a nuclear weapon in 1990
(actually Soviet Union).
sell critical parts and components on the black market and our enlisted
are not permanently drunk.
On 1/10/2025 7:53 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
...
There is a bunch of warmongers on this board.
Lynn
I'm not a war monger, but you seem to be Neville Chamberlain.
This isn't something we can negotiate. Putin must be taken down.
pt
Tell you what Pete, lets send your children to war this time. I have
already sent my son to war twice.
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.
If Putins button would be located on his bedside table I would agree with you. >It is not, and an order needs to go through many levels, by design, before any >rockets fly. It would be a more or less risk free way to finish the war quickly.
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 6:15 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Our military is much more competent and not so corrupt that officers
Got proof that our canned sunshine is going to work ? The USA has not >>> tested a nuclear weapon since 1992.
Russia is even worse, they last tested a nuclear weapon in 1990
(actually Soviet Union).
sell critical parts and components on the black market and our enlisted >>are not permanently drunk.
More interestingly, the US doesn't actually let the military control
nuclear weapons outright. They are mostly maintained by the DOE, a
civilian organization. It's part of that checks and balances thing.
The Russian army has not had a good history of maintenance on the whole.
In the Soviet era the Army had their own special fastener threads to keep >people from stealing nuts and bolts off military gear for personal use.
But then, the Navy also had their own special system, to keep the Army
from stealing nuts and bolts off of Navy equipment... and we thought >interservice rivalry in America was bad.
Thanks to your buddy GWB. It wasn't necessary or required to invade
Iraq over some made up nuclear danger, but you were cheering him on.
And Peter didn't advocate going to war; economic damage in Russia
will likely do the job of taking putin down eventually.
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 00:46:29 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo>
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.
If Putins button would be located on his bedside table I would agree with you.
It is not, and an order needs to go through many levels, by design, before any
rockets fly. It would be a more or less risk free way to finish the war quickly.
Never having been in Putin's current location, I have no idea where
the button is. I can only hope you are correct.
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote:
in Korea, several of my wife's cousins fought in Vietnam. My son fought in >>> Iraq. I vote that we let Europe fight it out this time on their own. There
will be more wars coming after this one.
It might sound strange, but I actually understand this point of view 100%, and
that is why I would not, and cannot criticize the US if it decides to drop >> ukraine. I would of course be sad, and I do not think it would make for a safer
world, in fact, I think it will make for a much worse conflict further down the
line that the US will be pulled into, but... I do understand that the US cannot
play world police forever, and I think it is 100% true that the EU should start
to take responsibility itself, instead of riding on the US.
I completely understand that point of view, and I think a number of the
wars that we have been in, such as Vietnam or the second Gulf War, were
gone into for the wrong reasons and started by America. Even a person
who supports war in general should not be able to support wars like that.
But... I also think this particular war can head off future wars. I don't like it. I don't think it should ever have started but I also think that diplomats on both sides did as much as they possibly could to prevent it.
I also think that the US has done a very good job of walking the line to
help finance the Ukranian defense without sending US troops. But I agree that there have been too many wars amounting in the end to too much nothing.
There are people who say there will be no long-term effect of the Ukranian invasion, that Putin will soon die and Russia will fall apart for a while
and have to be sewn back up by someone new, and that in that process
Ukraine has a better chance of escapsing than it does today. Maybe that is correct, and waiting would have been a better thing to do. But the war
got started and now they're stuck in it, and Putin just becomes more angry and resentful every day, listening less to his generals every day.
--scott
On 1/11/2025 12:45 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 13:35:28 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
<snippo>
Actually Russia should be part of the Ukrainian State if you
go back far enough in History. But the Ukrainian nation sparked Russia. >>>> Kiev should be the capital. Most of Russian history started with Kiev.
This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe. >>> Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the >>> eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is
derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name >>> for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]
While I was waiting for my Russian Basic class to begin, I did some
reading. I found out a lot about Siberian folk religions but I also
found the Scandanavian connection; indeed, IIRC, what I read suggested
that a fair number of common Russian names for people are derived from
Scandanavia. Among other things.
This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.
Another theory is that they are, in fact, Finns.
Don't tell a Finn that, if you value your health.
Besides, genetic and linguistic evidence would suggest otherwise.
On 1/12/2025 8:53 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:53 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.
Assuming the president remembers where he left the biscuit. There have
been a couple cases where it disappeared for a week or two until turning
up in the laundry.
--scott
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 13:35:28 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
<snippo>
Actually Russia should be part of the Ukrainian State if you
go back far enough in History. But the Ukrainian nation sparked Russia. >>>> Kiev should be the capital. Most of Russian history started with Kiev.
This is incorrect. Ukraine and Russia should be part of the Swedish
kingdom!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
According to the chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe. >>> Most historians believe that the Rus' were of Scandinavian origin,[13]
more specifically from what is currently coastal eastern Sweden around the >>> eighth century.[14] According to the prevalent theory, the name Rus' is
derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row", from an older name >>> for the Swedish coastal area of Roslagen.[15][16]
While I was waiting for my Russian Basic class to begin, I did some
reading. I found out a lot about Siberian folk religions but I also
found the Scandanavian connection; indeed, IIRC, what I read suggested
that a fair number of common Russian names for people are derived from
Scandanavia. Among other things.
This is very interesting. Do you have any links or more information? In >terms of siberian folk religions, I have a theory that the religions and >customs of the early vikings at some point crossed with the siberian folk >religions. This is not proven, but I would not be surprised if there's
been some influence back and forth between the two.
This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.
I will call them white russians until they are a democracy and they have >renamed what ever sweden is called in their language to "sverige". Then we >can talk. As long as Lukashenko is there, I will not comply.
Another theory is that they are, in fact, Finns.
Finns? Very interesting. How did you get that connection? I thought the >finns and the hungarians, and to a certain extent, the estonians where off >by themselves in a corner doing their thing.
--[1] Also known as "White Russians" -- but not in the political sense,
that is, not as contrasted with the "Red Russians" in the post-WWI
Civil War.
Scandanavian Vikings penetrated far into what is now Russia, sailing
up rivers, and protaging between them. They even got down to the
Black Sea, and Constantinople, as attested by multiple runic
graffiti in the Hagia Sophia.
D <[email protected]> wrote:
This is the truth! In the 2 big cities, things are ok, but have a look at
the russian country side, and the anger is increasing in proportion with
the bodies that are sent back from Ukraine.
Yes, and this is in a country which is used to being used to support their government rather than the other way around. They've served under crazy dictators for the past seven hundred years.
But... what can the angry people do, that's the question? It took a lot of very angry people combined with a depressed and disenchanted government to take down the Soviet Union. Can people get that angry again and can the upper reaches of the government get that demoralized?
There is a reason why russian soldiers from the country side are stealing
kitchen and bathroom equipment. Russia is bigger than Moscow and St
Petersburg and when the country side farmers and serfs get angry, it is
game over.
Yeah, but they did that in WWI and WWII also.... the farmers have been
angry for a long time. How much more angry do they need to be? I wish
I knew.
--scott
This gives the impressiion that the Great Russians are Swedes, and the
Little Russans (Belarus) [1] are the real Russians.
I will call them white russians until they are a democracy and they have
renamed what ever sweden is called in their language to "sverige". Then we >> can talk. As long as Lukashenko is there, I will not comply.
And yet it appears that Lukashenko is opposed to Belarus becoming part
of Russia. And Bing shows the Russian for "Sweden" transcribed as
"shvetsiya" (and in Belarusian). Which I suggest is as close to
"sverige" as you are likely to get.
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 00:46:29 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo>
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.
If Putins button would be located on his bedside table I would agree with you.
It is not, and an order needs to go through many levels, by design, before any
rockets fly. It would be a more or less risk free way to finish the war quickly.
Never having been in Putin's current location, I have no idea where
the button is. I can only hope you are correct.
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
got started and now they're stuck in it, and Putin just becomes more angry and resentful every day, listening less to his generals every day.
--scott
On 1/12/2025 7:45 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
But... I also think this particular war can head off future wars. I don't >> like it. I don't think it should ever have started but I also think that
diplomats on both sides did as much as they possibly could to prevent it.
I have to disagree with that last line. One side did their best to
prevent it without effectively surrendering their sovereignty. The
other side demanded surrender and invaded without warning.
On 1/12/25 09:04, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:53 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.
Assuming the president remembers where he left the biscuit. There have
been a couple cases where it disappeared for a week or two until turning
up in the laundry.
"Biscuit"??? We used to refer to it as the "Football". Further
minaturization or ?.
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/2025 7:45 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
But... I also think this particular war can head off future wars. I don't >>> like it. I don't think it should ever have started but I also think that >>> diplomats on both sides did as much as they possibly could to prevent it. >>I have to disagree with that last line. One side did their best to
prevent it without effectively surrendering their sovereignty. The
other side demanded surrender and invaded without warning.
Yes. This is what happens in monarchies. The diplomats get overriden
when the king decides differently. It went badly for Charles I.
--scott
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/25 09:04, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:53 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer >>>>> away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.
Assuming the president remembers where he left the biscuit. There have
been a couple cases where it disappeared for a week or two until turning >>> up in the laundry.
"Biscuit"??? We used to refer to it as the "Football". Further
minaturization or ?.
The biscuit is the laminated card that contains the gold codes and it is carried around by the president at all times. The codes are changed on a regular basis but back in the Nixon era it wasn't as often as it is today. It's the size of a business card and fits in the wallet.
The football is the briefcase with the present war plans and the codes for those plans. The football is carried around by a military officer who follows the president around.
Should the president decide to drop the bomb, he needs both the current
gold code from the biscuit AND the code for the specific war plan he wants
to implement. I think the way it's supposed to work is that he calls the national military command center with the gold code, gets back a countersign, then gives the code for the plan.
There are some plans and some codes that are specific ringers so that if the information is compromised that a bad guy won't know which codes are valid.
The key to this system is that the president can only implement specific plans which have been made up by the generals. He can't wake up in the middle of the night with an upset stomach from bad burritos and decide to nuke Mexico. Well, he can decide that, but he won't be able to implement it so easily.
I have no idea what system the Russians have in place. For all I know,
Putin could call up some secret number and order Mexico City to be bombed. --scott
On 1/12/25 11:57, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/2025 7:45 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
But... I also think this particular war can head off future wars. II have to disagree with that last line. One side did their best to
don't
like it. I don't think it should ever have started but I also think that >>>> diplomats on both sides did as much as they possibly could to prevent it. >>>
prevent it without effectively surrendering their sovereignty. The
other side demanded surrender and invaded without warning.
Yes. This is what happens in monarchies. The diplomats get overriden
when the king decides differently. It went badly for Charles I.
--scott
Yes and Ukraine did not believe our intelligence until late in
the day and very quickly went from peace to resisting the Putin invasion.
There was no diplomacy: there was only the invasion of
Crimea which the USA barely noted during the Obama era. Then
with Trump having lost the election, the invasion of mainland
Ukraine. Putin's intelligence had misinformed him as to the
sentiments of the regions inhabitants. And maybe he thought
of the Democrats as a party of peace which would act as the
USA under Obama had with little concern for a distant land.
bliss - just hobbling.
On 1/12/2025 3:10 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/25 09:04, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:53 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer >>>>>> away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.
Assuming the president remembers where he left the biscuit. There have >>>> been a couple cases where it disappeared for a week or two until turning >>>> up in the laundry.
"Biscuit"??? We used to refer to it as the "Football". Further
minaturization or ?.
The biscuit is the laminated card that contains the gold codes and it is
carried around by the president at all times. The codes are changed on a
regular basis but back in the Nixon era it wasn't as often as it is today. >> It's the size of a business card and fits in the wallet.
The football is the briefcase with the present war plans and the codes for >> those plans. The football is carried around by a military officer who
follows the president around.
Should the president decide to drop the bomb, he needs both the current
gold code from the biscuit AND the code for the specific war plan he wants >> to implement. I think the way it's supposed to work is that he calls the
national military command center with the gold code, gets back a
countersign,
then gives the code for the plan.
There are some plans and some codes that are specific ringers so that if
the
information is compromised that a bad guy won't know which codes are valid. >>
The key to this system is that the president can only implement specific
plans which have been made up by the generals. He can't wake up in the
middle of the night with an upset stomach from bad burritos and decide to
nuke Mexico. Well, he can decide that, but he won't be able to implement
it
so easily.
I have no idea what system the Russians have in place. For all I know,
Putin could call up some secret number and order Mexico City to be bombed. >> --scott
Thanks for the better answer than I could provide.
pt
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/25 09:04, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:53 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer >>>>> away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.
Assuming the president remembers where he left the biscuit. There have
been a couple cases where it disappeared for a week or two until turning >>> up in the laundry.
"Biscuit"??? We used to refer to it as the "Football". Further >>minaturization or ?.
The biscuit is the laminated card that contains the gold codes and it is >carried around by the president at all times. The codes are changed on a >regular basis but back in the Nixon era it wasn't as often as it is today. >It's the size of a business card and fits in the wallet.
The football is the briefcase with the present war plans and the codes for >those plans. The football is carried around by a military officer who >follows the president around.
Should the president decide to drop the bomb, he needs both the current
gold code from the biscuit AND the code for the specific war plan he wants
to implement. I think the way it's supposed to work is that he calls the >national military command center with the gold code, gets back a countersign, >then gives the code for the plan.
There are some plans and some codes that are specific ringers so that if the >information is compromised that a bad guy won't know which codes are valid.
The key to this system is that the president can only implement specific >plans which have been made up by the generals. He can't wake up in the >middle of the night with an upset stomach from bad burritos and decide to >nuke Mexico. Well, he can decide that, but he won't be able to implement it >so easily.
I have no idea what system the Russians have in place. For all I know, >Putin could call up some secret number and order Mexico City to be bombed.--
On 1/12/2025 12:10 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:That sounds too complicated for Trump to remember so we may be safe. :P
On 1/12/25 09:04, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:53 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer >>>>>> away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Codes that authorize launches once the military requests it.
Assuming the president remembers where he left the biscuit. There have >>>> been a couple cases where it disappeared for a week or two until turning >>>> up in the laundry.
"Biscuit"??? We used to refer to it as the "Football". Further
minaturization or ?.
The biscuit is the laminated card that contains the gold codes and it is
carried around by the president at all times. The codes are changed on a
regular basis but back in the Nixon era it wasn't as often as it is today. >> It's the size of a business card and fits in the wallet.
The football is the briefcase with the present war plans and the codes for >> those plans. The football is carried around by a military officer who
follows the president around.
Should the president decide to drop the bomb, he needs both the current
gold code from the biscuit AND the code for the specific war plan he wants >> to implement. I think the way it's supposed to work is that he calls the
national military command center with the gold code, gets back a countersign,
then gives the code for the plan.
There are some plans and some codes that are specific ringers so that if the >> information is compromised that a bad guy won't know which codes are valid. >>
The key to this system is that the president can only implement specific
plans which have been made up by the generals. He can't wake up in the
middle of the night with an upset stomach from bad burritos and decide to
nuke Mexico. Well, he can decide that, but he won't be able to implement it >> so easily.
I have no idea what system the Russians have in place. For all I know,
Putin could call up some secret number and order Mexico City to be bombed. >> --scott
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 00:46:29 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo>
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.
If Putins button would be located on his bedside table I would agree with you.
It is not, and an order needs to go through many levels, by design, before any
rockets fly. It would be a more or less risk free way to finish the war quickly.
Never having been in Putin's current location, I have no idea where
the button is. I can only hope you are correct.
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Maybe. I would be surprised however, if the US process, also does not >involve numerous steps and numerous people along the way.
Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks to your buddy GWB. It wasn't necessary or required to invade
Iraq over some made up nuclear danger, but you were cheering him on.
I'd blame Chaney and Rumsfeld much more, even though GWB really was very >enthusiastic about it. It confused the hell out of the generals and the >intelligence community, all of whom thought we were fighting Bin Laden
when they all had to do a complete turnaround and start fighting our ally.
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally
until the bombs actually started dropping.
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 20:05:55 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 00:46:29 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo>
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no
sense.
If Putins button would be located on his bedside table I would agree with you.
It is not, and an order needs to go through many levels, by design, before any
rockets fly. It would be a more or less risk free way to finish the war quickly.
Never having been in Putin's current location, I have no idea where
the button is. I can only hope you are correct.
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Maybe. I would be surprised however, if the US process, also does not
involve numerous steps and numerous people along the way.
It probably does.
Unless, of course, "Wing Attack Plan R" is still a valid plan.
What is Wing Attack Plan R? Sounds sinister!
Or they could adopt the Peachfuzz solution: provide a biscuit with no
valid codes on it at all.
Now all we need is the equivalent russian process! Let's see if we have
any russians lurking around here. =)
I found the interview interesting because Putin appears to believe it
all and justify his actions thereof. Many of the Russian citizens
appear to believe him also and still support him even though they have
lost a million soldiers in the Ukranian war.
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
I found the interview interesting because Putin appears to believe it
all and justify his actions thereof. Many of the Russian citizens
appear to believe him also and still support him even though they have
lost a million soldiers in the Ukranian war.
I think you are right. I am curious if he actually believes it but quite probably he does. And he does have more support than Americans would
have given a war with such casualties. By 1972, Americans had lost
around 55,000 troops in Vietnam and half the country was up in arms against the war. Russia isn't like America.
--scott
On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 20:05:55 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 00:46:29 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo>
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no >>>>>> sense.
If Putins button would be located on his bedside table I would agree with you.
It is not, and an order needs to go through many levels, by design, before any
rockets fly. It would be a more or less risk free way to finish the war quickly.
Never having been in Putin's current location, I have no idea where
the button is. I can only hope you are correct.
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer
away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Maybe. I would be surprised however, if the US process, also does not
involve numerous steps and numerous people along the way.
It probably does.
Unless, of course, "Wing Attack Plan R" is still a valid plan.
What is Wing Attack Plan R? Sounds sinister!
D <[email protected]> wrote:
Now all we need is the equivalent russian process! Let's see if we have >>any russians lurking around here. =)
I bet the Soviet process is documented and available somewhere from the
US government. The Russians changed a lot of things in the military
but they kept a lot of things the same too.
Putin... makes me miss Brezhnev....--
On 1/13/2025 11:17 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On 12 Jan 2025 17:01:34 -0000, [email protected] (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks to your buddy GWB. It wasn't necessary or required to invade
Iraq over some made up nuclear danger, but you were cheering him on.
I'd blame Chaney and Rumsfeld much more, even though GWB really was very >>> enthusiastic about it. It confused the hell out of the generals and the >>> intelligence community, all of whom thought we were fighting Bin Laden
when they all had to do a complete turnaround and start fighting our ally. >>> It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally
until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the
family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the
early 90s.
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
He also claimed that Saddam was behind a failed
assassination attempt on his father ("He tried to
kill my Daddy", iirc), which made it personal for
him.
Iraq War 2 was an unjustified war of aggression, and
a shame on the US.
D <[email protected]> wrote:
Now all we need is the equivalent russian process! Let's see if we have
any russians lurking around here. =)
I bet the Soviet process is documented and available somewhere from the
US government. The Russians changed a lot of things in the military
but they kept a lot of things the same too.
Putin... makes me miss Brezhnev....
--scott
On 1/11/2025 3:43 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
Because that is where Tucker Carlson interviewed him on Feb 6, 2024 last >>> year. I highly recommend the two hour plus interview. It starts off
with a one hour history lesson about Russia by Putin.
https://tuckercarlson.com/the-vladimir-putin-interview
I highly recommend it because it says a whole lot about what Putin thinks
and what his original strategy was. The "history lesson" is especially
interesting.
Some of the history is correct, some of it is total bunkum (like the
assertation that "Ukraine has always been part of Russia.") Some of it
is accurate but distorted by being taken badly out of context (such
as the mention of Ukranian Nazis).
But -all- of it is what Putin wants people to believe the history actually >> was, and it's what is being taught in Russian schools today. (It might
also be what was taught in Soviet schools too and that is something I would >> be really curious about finding out.)
It's interesting to see him lapse into the dielectic too. Some of that
is just characteristically Soviet.
I would love to see a serious historian annotate some of that talk.
--scott
I found the interview interesting because Putin appears to believe it all and justify his actions thereof. Many of the Russian citizens appear to believe him also and still support him even though they have lost a million soldiers in the Ukranian war.
Lynn
Go watch the new Napoleon movie. Towards the end of his career, Napoleon takes 650,000 French and German troops to Russia, intent on taking Moscow. When he gets to Moscow, no one is there and it is torched while they are in it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia
Napoleon decides to walk home to France. Only 35,000 of his troops make it home with him. Horrible. Another 35,000 straggle in later.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13287846/
My point is that the Russians have been willing to go to extreme lengths to fight off invaders. And at this point, they consider Ukraine to be a extended part of Russia.
Lynn
On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 20:37:58 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 20:05:55 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 00:46:29 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025, Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo>
People who are panicked can do things that would otherwise make no >>>>>>> sense.
If Putins button would be located on his bedside table I would agree with you.
It is not, and an order needs to go through many levels, by design, before any
rockets fly. It would be a more or less risk free way to finish the war quickly.
Never having been in Putin's current location, I have no idea where
the button is. I can only hope you are correct.
I'm fairly sure the US President is one door and one military officer >>>>> away from access to the codes that launch the missiles, however.
Maybe. I would be surprised however, if the US process, also does not
involve numerous steps and numerous people along the way.
It probably does.
Unless, of course, "Wing Attack Plan R" is still a valid plan.
What is Wing Attack Plan R? Sounds sinister!
It's the War Plan that allows General Jack D. Ripper to have his
strategic bomber wing attack Russia /without/ any input at all, never
mind permission or orders, from his superiors.
In the film /Dr. Strangelove/, it is said to have been created to
allow retaliation after a very thorough decapitation strike.
You really need to see the classics ...
Moscow sits in the middle of a vast plain, stretching from Germany to
Urals. Its been invaded many, many times. Buffer zones are pretty much
the only defense that they know works.
It's terrifying to Putin that so much of Russia now borders on NATO >countries. He felt far more secure when there was a layer of Warsaw
Pact countries in the way.
Go watch the new Napoleon movie. Towards the end of his career,
Napoleon takes 650,000 French and German troops to Russia, intent on
taking Moscow. When he gets to Moscow, no one is there and it is
torched while they are in it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia
My point is that the Russians have been willing to go to extreme lengths
to fight off invaders. And at this point, they consider Ukraine to be a >extended part of Russia.
On 1/13/2025 11:54 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/13/2025 8:24 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Lynn McGuire� <[email protected]> wrote:
I found the interview interesting because Putin appears to believe it
all and justify his actions thereof.� Many of the Russian citizens
appear to believe him also and still support him even though they have >>>> lost a million soldiers in the Ukranian war.
I think you are right.� I am curious if he actually believes it but quite >>> probably he does.� And he does have more support than Americans would
have given a war with such casualties.� By 1972, Americans had lost
around 55,000 troops in Vietnam and half the country was up in arms
against
the war.� Russia isn't like America.
--scott
Go watch the new Napoleon movie.� Towards the end of his career,
Napoleon takes 650,000 French and German troops to Russia, intent on
taking Moscow.� When he gets to Moscow, no one is there and it is
torched while they are in it.
�� https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia
Napoleon decides to walk home to France.� Only 35,000 of his troops make
it home with him.� Horrible.� Another 35,000 straggle in later.
�� https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13287846/
...as documented in one of the greatest infographics of all time: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Joseph_Minard#The_map_of_Napoleon's_Russian_campaign
My point is that the Russians have been willing to go to extreme lengths
to fight off invaders.� And at this point, they consider Ukraine to be a
extended part of Russia.
Moscow sits in the middle of a vast plain, stretching from Germany to
Urals. Its been invaded many, many times. Buffer zones are pretty much
the only defense that they know works.
It's terrifying to Putin that so much of Russia now borders on NATO >countries. He felt far more secure when there was a layer of Warsaw
Pact countries in the way.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Go watch the new Napoleon movie. Towards the end of his career, Napoleon >> takes 650,000 French and German troops to Russia, intent on taking Moscow. >> When he gets to Moscow, no one is there and it is torched while they are in >> it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia
Napoleon decides to walk home to France. Only 35,000 of his troops make it >> home with him. Horrible. Another 35,000 straggle in later.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13287846/
My point is that the Russians have been willing to go to extreme lengths to >> fight off invaders. And at this point, they consider Ukraine to be a
extended part of Russia.
Extreme lengths? Such as being lucky, setting houses on fire and running away? >Sounds like bad strategy if you ask me.
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 19:13:11 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Go watch the new Napoleon movie. Towards the end of his career, Napoleon >>> takes 650,000 French and German troops to Russia, intent on taking Moscow. >>> When he gets to Moscow, no one is there and it is torched while they are in >>> it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia
Napoleon decides to walk home to France. Only 35,000 of his troops make it >>> home with him. Horrible. Another 35,000 straggle in later.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13287846/
My point is that the Russians have been willing to go to extreme lengths to >>> fight off invaders. And at this point, they consider Ukraine to be a
extended part of Russia.
Extreme lengths? Such as being lucky, setting houses on fire and running away?
Sounds like bad strategy if you ask me.
I should point out that this was covered by Bondarchuk in the fourth
part of /War and Peace/.
Also, the Russian Strategy after Borodino was to withdraw and await developments. In the end, what "developed" is a French withdrawal in
the middle of the Russian Winter. I'm not it is clear who started the
fires.
The "withdraw" part also worked in WW2, at least once Stalin dropped
his "hold them at the border" nonsense. In WW2, of course, they did
have to eventually stop the advance and push the Axis back. All the
way to Berlin.
Russia is a /big/ country. It takes a /lot/ of boots on the ground to
take it and hold it.
a) if your response to being uncomfortable is to invade neighbouring >countries is it suprising that neighbouring countries join a defense
pact?
Mad Hamish <[email protected]> wrote:
a) if your response to being uncomfortable is to invade neighbouring
countries is it suprising that neighbouring countries join a defense
pact?
Well, it worked for Catherine the Great, so maybe it'll work again!
--scott
On Wed, 15 Jan 2025, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mad Hamish <[email protected]> wrote:
a) if your response to being uncomfortable is to invade neighbouring
countries is it suprising that neighbouring countries join a defense
pact?
Well, it worked for Catherine the Great, so maybe it'll work again!
--scott
I found this gem in todays mainstream newspaper. It's a quote from swedish >diplomat to russia, Petrus Petrejus who lived at the beginning of the
17:th century.
Petrus Petrejus, who wrote in the early 17th century: "when the Muscovites >have enmity with their neighbors, they do not do as other Christian >potentates usually do, to declare war and enmity through their heralds and >letters. Instead, before the neighbor knows the word, they attack the >neighboring people with a few thousand men. And just as they begin their >wars, with treachery and cunning, they use the same arts when they are to >broker peace."
Not much has changed in 400 years.
On 1/15/2025 8:42 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
Dealing with monarchies is a weird thing, because it comes down entirely
to figuring out what the monarch is thinking, which isn't always what he
is saying either domestically or to the foreign press. Whatever happened
to Kremlinologists and Sovietologists anyway?
--scott
I enjoyed the new Napoleon movie and relearned a lot of European
history. The battle scenes were amazing.
On 1/15/2025 5:57 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/15/2025 5:16 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> writes:
On 1/15/2025 8:42 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
Dealing with monarchies is a weird thing, because it comes down
entirely
to figuring out what the monarch is thinking, which isn't always
what he
is saying either domestically or to the foreign press. Whatever
happened
to Kremlinologists and Sovietologists anyway?
--scott
I enjoyed the new Napoleon movie and relearned a lot of European
history. The battle scenes were amazing.
An entertainment film should not be confused with history, in
any aspect.
Real history is far more nuanced than can be conveyed in 120 minutes.
I recall someone saying "A picture is worth a thousand words...".
A movie is worth a million lies.
William Hyde
https://time.com/6338563/napoleon-movie-true-story/
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> writes:
On 1/15/2025 5:57 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/15/2025 5:16 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> writes:I recall someone saying "A picture is worth a thousand words...".
On 1/15/2025 8:42 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
Dealing with monarchies is a weird thing, because it comes down >>>>>>> entirely
to figuring out what the monarch is thinking, which isn't always >>>>>>> what he
is saying either domestically or to the foreign press. Whatever >>>>>>> happened
to Kremlinologists and Sovietologists anyway?
--scott
I enjoyed the new Napoleon movie and relearned a lot of European
history. The battle scenes were amazing.
An entertainment film should not be confused with history, in
any aspect.
Real history is far more nuanced than can be conveyed in 120 minutes. >>>>
A movie is worth a million lies.
William Hyde
https://time.com/6338563/napoleon-movie-true-story/
From the TFA
"The movie is a work of historical fiction, but Scott's
team worked to ensure that at least some details are
historically accurate"
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of
his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact as possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they provide
a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that
just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the face of invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to answer.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well
in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of
his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact as
possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they provide
a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that
just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the face of
invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to answer. >>
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well
in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of
his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact as
possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they provide
a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that
just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the face of
invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more that >> he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to
answer.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well
in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well
in history.
I think Chamberlain may be getting a boost from current events.
Republicans in particular should cease using his name and "Munich" as >insults. He acted out of principle, however misguided, they are not
doing so Plus most of them have no idea what happened there.
Also, it's a pity that Daladier remains unmentioned in this. His >responsibility is at least as large as Chamberlain's. Indeed, as France >actually had a defense treaty with Czechoslovakia, which his signature
on the Munich agreement violated.
He was also wiser than Chamberlain. While the former really thought
that the Munich agreement would bring peace, Daladier knew well that it
would not, and thought he'd be condemned for his part in it. He was
very surprised to be welcomed home by cheering crowds.
Chamberlain was brought into national politics by LLoyd George, who
referred to him as "not one of my lucky finds".
Scott Lurndal wrote:
William Hyde <[email protected]> writes:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well >>>> in history.
I think Chamberlain may be getting a boost from current events.
Republicans in particular should cease using his name and "Munich" as
insults. He acted out of principle, however misguided, they are not
doing so Plus most of them have no idea what happened there.
Also, it's a pity that Daladier remains unmentioned in this. His
responsibility is at least as large as Chamberlain's. Indeed, as France >>> actually had a defense treaty with Czechoslovakia, which his signature
on the Munich agreement violated.
He was also wiser than Chamberlain. While the former really thought
that the Munich agreement would bring peace, Daladier knew well that it
would not, and thought he'd be condemned for his part in it. He was
very surprised to be welcomed home by cheering crowds.
Chamberlain was brought into national politics by LLoyd George, who
referred to him as "not one of my lucky finds".
It's also necessary to understand the three decades before WWI
in order to understand the politics of the interbellum.
Indeed. Chamberlain and virtually everyone else believed that WWI was a >result of the great powers not talking to one another and this was a
fault he was determined not to commit.
He was sure in 1938 that the UK, France, and Czechoslovakia would win a
war against Germany. But he feared it would be another WWI, with
millions of dead.
Appeasement had been tried before, with Russia circa 1880 and it had >prevented war. It was not at this time a dirty word.
William Hyde
I really doubt that homosexuals are running NATO but
if they are I believe they are well-educated and doing the
best job they can.
Not his whole life, but I heartily recommend the 1970 "Waterloo"
starting Christopher Plummer, Rod Steiger and Orson Wells.
I've seen analysis by historians to the effect that this is the
most historically accurate version of the battle ever filmed.
The battle was filmed in Ukraine. The Soviet Army lent the
production 17,000 soldiers, who were trained to drill and
'fight' in period style and uniforms. This was before CGI and
Maya, and if you see a soldier, he's real. This led to a
minor degree of randomness that underscores the reality of the
scene, details such random glints of sunlight off the bayonets
of a formation half a mile away.
This was by far the largest number of extras ever used in one
movie, and was said to be the 'seventh largest army in Europe'.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:46:59 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snippo, topic is the recent /Napoleon/ movie and its historicity>
Not his whole life, but I heartily recommend the 1970 "Waterloo"
starting Christopher Plummer, Rod Steiger and Orson Wells.
I've seen analysis by historians to the effect that this is the
most historically accurate version of the battle ever filmed.
Being by Bondarchuck, I would think so.=20
The battle was filmed in Ukraine. The Soviet Army lent the
production 17,000 soldiers, who were trained to drill and
'fight' in period style and uniforms. This was before CGI and
Maya, and if you see a soldier, he's real. This led to a
minor degree of randomness that underscores the reality of the
scene, details such random glints of sunlight off the bayonets
of a formation half a mile away.
This was by far the largest number of extras ever used in one
movie, and was said to be the 'seventh largest army in Europe'.
Actually, <https://movieweb.com/movies-highest-number-extras/> has it
at 9th largest. The largest number is 300,000 for /Gandhi/.
On 1/17/2025 1:56 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:46:59 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snippo, topic is the recent /Napoleon/ movie and its historicity>
Not his whole life, but I heartily recommend the 1970 "Waterloo"
starting Christopher Plummer, Rod Steiger and Orson Wells.
I've seen analysis by historians to the effect that this is the
most historically accurate version of the battle ever filmed.
Being by Bondarchuck, I would think so.=20
The battle was filmed in Ukraine. The Soviet Army lent the
production 17,000 soldiers, who were trained to drill and
'fight' in period style and uniforms. This was before CGI and
Maya, and if you see a soldier, he's real. This led to a
minor degree of randomness that underscores the reality of the
scene, details such random glints of sunlight off the bayonets
of a formation half a mile away.
This was by far the largest number of extras ever used in one
movie, and was said to be the 'seventh largest army in Europe'.
Actually, <https://movieweb.com/movies-highest-number-extras/> has it
at 9th largest. The largest number is 300,000 for /Gandhi/.
_Waterloo_ may well have had the largest number of
extras _at the time it was made_ (1970). Ghandi was a
decade later.
Not according to the article Paul linked. It lists several
movies that both pre-date it, and had more extras.
Regardless, the movie is very good.
On 1/17/2025 12:01 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:46:59 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snippo, topic is the recent /Napoleon/ movie and its historicity>
Not his whole life, but I heartily recommend the 1970 "Waterloo"
starting Christopher Plummer, Rod Steiger and Orson Wells.
I've seen analysis by historians to the effect that this is the
most historically accurate version of the battle ever filmed.
Being by Bondarchuck, I would think so.
The battle was filmed in Ukraine. The Soviet Army lent the
production 17,000 soldiers, who were trained to drill and
'fight' in period style and uniforms. This was before CGI and
Maya, and if you see a soldier, he's real. This led to a
minor degree of randomness that underscores the reality of the
scene, details such random glints of sunlight off the bayonets
of a formation half a mile away.
This was by far the largest number of extras ever used in one
movie, and was said to be the 'seventh largest army in Europe'.
Actually, <https://movieweb.com/movies-highest-number-extras/> has it
at 9th largest. The largest number is 300,000 for /Gandhi/.
OTOH, the notes on Napolean indicate that it has the highest number of
/costumed/ extras. Which is odd, because it looks to me like the
30,000 extras in /Quo Vadis/ were wearing costumes. They were
certainly wearing /something/.
But perhaps by "costume" they mean "military uniforms". This would
only work if most of the 50,000 extras in /Spartacus/, while part of
Spartacus' army, were not wearing military uniforms, as they were
mostly depicting runaway slaves.
I should note that, in Russian, the "suit" in "business suit" is a
"kostyum", so it is possible that the Russian "kostyum" is being used
here for "miltiary uniform". When I was in the Army, the dress uniform
("Greens") was said to be the equivalent of a tuxedo (when worn with a
white shirt and black bow tie) so some flexibility may exist here.
Or perhaps "costumed" is being used in a technical sense specific to
films (and perhaps stage plays). Maybe a simple robe that looks like
the robes warn back in the day worn over street clothes is not a
"costume".
More likely, its the operation of the Hollywood hype machine, and
not subject to any kind fact-checking or post-hoc justification.
Still, it was a heck of a lot of people. They were actually costumed
and drilled in Napoleonic style, not just a crowd.
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally >>until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the
family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the
early 90s.=20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
Real history is far more nuanced than can be conveyed in 120 minutes.
I recall someone saying "A picture is worth a thousand words...".
A movie is worth a million lies.
As you have not read that article, I feel safe in telling you that the >article makes a big deal of the fact that the movie did not portray
Napoleon as a three-armed Martian who conquered Jupiter.
Scott Dorsey wrote:
William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
As you have not read that article, I feel safe in telling you that the
article makes a big deal of the fact that the movie did not portray
Napoleon as a three-armed Martian who conquered Jupiter.
This said, I would like to say that I would be VERY willing to spend my
money to see a movie in which Napoleon was a three-armed martian who
conquered Jupiter. Especially if Nelson is a distributed software-based
virtual intelligence.
With only one arm, just to keep it historically accurate, of course.
William Hyde
Scott Dorsey wrote:
William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
As you have not read that article, I feel safe in telling you that the
article makes a big deal of the fact that the movie did not portray
Napoleon as a three-armed Martian who conquered Jupiter.
This said, I would like to say that I would be VERY willing to spend my money to see a movie in which Napoleon was a three-armed martian who conquered Jupiter. Especially if Nelson is a distributed software-based virtual intelligence.
With only one arm, just to keep it historically accurate, of course.
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally >>>until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the
family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the
early 90s.=20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of the
best presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as
one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally >>>>until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the
family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the
early 90s.=20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of the
best presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as
one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States#Scholar_survey_summary
Purportedly objective criteria:
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally >>>until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the
family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the
early 90s.=20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of the
best presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as
one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 16:07:23 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally >>>>until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the >>>family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the >>>early 90s.=20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of the >>best presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as
one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United
_States#Scholar_survey_summary
Purportedly objective criteria:
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
As I said before, Trump made /every prior President/ look a whole lot
better. Even Tricky Dicky, who was shown to be telling the truth when
he said he was not a crook. Trump showed us what a President who is a
crook looks like. And we'll be getting another dose shortly.
Buckle up! Stormy times ahead!
I don't believe that Trump made James Buchanan look better.
On 1/18/25 4:13 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
William Hyde� <[email protected]> wrote:
As you have not read that article, I feel safe in telling you that the >>>> article makes a big deal of the fact that the movie did not portray
Napoleon as a three-armed Martian who conquered Jupiter.
This said, I would like to say that I would be VERY willing to spend my
money to see a movie in which Napoleon was a three-armed martian who
conquered Jupiter.� Especially if Nelson is a distributed software-based >>> virtual intelligence.
With only one arm, just to keep it historically accurate, of course.
Dang - if there's a Waterloo riff in here, I'm not finding it.
In article <[email protected]>,
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 16:07:23 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United
_States#Scholar_survey_summary
Purportedly objective criteria:
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
As I said before, Trump made /every prior President/ look a whole lot
better. Even Tricky Dicky, who was shown to be telling the truth when
he said he was not a crook. Trump showed us what a President who is a
crook looks like. And we'll be getting another dose shortly.
I don't believe that Trump made James Buchanan look better.
--Buckle up! Stormy times ahead!
William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
As you have not read that article, I feel safe in telling you that the
article makes a big deal of the fact that the movie did not portray
Napoleon as a three-armed Martian who conquered Jupiter.
This said, I would like to say that I would be VERY willing to spend my
money to see a movie in which Napoleon was a three-armed martian who conquered Jupiter. Especially if Nelson is a distributed software-based virtual intelligence.
--scott
William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
As you have not read that article, I feel safe in telling you that the
article makes a big deal of the fact that the movie did not portray
Napoleon as a three-armed Martian who conquered Jupiter.
This said, I would like to say that I would be VERY willing to spend my
money to see a movie in which Napoleon was a three-armed martian who
conquered Jupiter. Especially if Nelson is a distributed software-based
virtual intelligence.
--scott
Nelson has to be the donor of the 3rd arm!
As a soldier, Boney was a Martian.
On 1/16/25 12:02, Anonymous wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of
his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact as >>> possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they provide >>> a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that
just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the face of >>> invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more that >>> he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to answer. >>>
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well
in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Wasn't that when Putin stole Crimea and the USA did not
raise much of a stink at this invasion of a sovereign state.
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/16/25 12:02, Anonymous wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of >>>> his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact as >>>> possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they
provide
a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that >>>> just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the
face of
invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more
that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to
answer.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well >>>> in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Wasn't that when Putin stole Crimea and the USA did not
raise much of a stink at this invasion of a sovereign state.
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a series of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to reject a trade agreement with theEuropean Union in favor of closer ties with Russia, resulting in violent clashes and significant political change in Ukraine.
On 1/19/2025 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally >>>>> until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the
family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the
early 90s.=20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of the
best presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as
one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States#Scholar_survey_summary
Purportedly objective criteria:
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
The TDS is strong with this one.
Lynn
On 1/19/2025 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his ally >>>>> until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the
family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the
early 90s.=20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of the
best presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as
one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States#Scholar_survey_summary
Purportedly objective criteria:
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
The TDS is strong with this one.
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia, resulting in violent clashes and significant political change in Ukraine.That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a series of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to reject a trade agreement with
So people acting within their own nation regarding their own
government is "starting a war"?
We barely heard about the Revolution of Dignity in the USA
and I doubt we had anything to do with it. But in 2027 we may have
a similar result as people find that #47 policies hurt them a lot.
So you see the Ukrainian People know the Russian Government
very well and want nothing to do with it.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 23:01:51 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/19/2025 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:the
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his = >ally
until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the
family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the
early 90s.=3D20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of =
best presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew=20
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as
one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
= >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_Un= >ited_States#Scholar_survey_summary
=20
Purportedly objective criteria:
=20
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
The TDS is strong with this one.
You are, of course, looking in the mirror when you type that.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 15:30:13 -0800, Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
<snippo>
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a
series of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the >> ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to >> reject a trade agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties >> with Russia, resulting in violent clashes and significant political change >> in Ukraine.
We barely heard about the Revolution of Dignity in the USA
and I doubt we had anything to do with it. But in 2027 we may have
a similar result as people find that #47 policies hurt them a lot.
I think you mean 2028. Or maybe 2026.
They've even broken with the Moscow Patriarchate and formed their own.
Which probably matters more there than a similar event would here.
On 1/21/2025 1:42 PM, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 15:30:13 -0800, Bobbie Sellers
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
<snippo>
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a >>>>> series of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the
ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to >>>>> reject a trade agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties >>>>> with Russia, resulting in violent clashes and significant political change
in Ukraine.
<snip>
We barely heard about the Revolution of Dignity in the USA
and I doubt we had anything to do with it. But in 2027 we may have
a similar result as people find that #47 policies hurt them a lot.
I think you mean 2028. Or maybe 2026.
I think 2027 is meant. A crushing mid-term defeat of multiple Republican
members of the House and Senate gives large Democratic majorities in
both the House and Senate. That, plus a number of Republican Senators
who don't want to face defeat in the 2028 election, results in the most
massive use of successful impeachment in US history (Trump, Vance, a
bunch of Cabinet officers, Associate and Assistant Secretaries of
various departments, some Judges, etc.).
We are truly into The Crazy Years.
Constitutional Crisis, here we come.
Only a decade ago, this would have seemed insane.
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 23:01:51 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/19/2025 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:=20
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his = >>ally
until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the
family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the >>>>>> early 90s.=3D20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of = >>the
best presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as >>>>> one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
= >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_Un= >>ited_States#Scholar_survey_summary
=20
Purportedly objective criteria:
=20
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
The TDS is strong with this one.
You are, of course, looking in the mirror when you type that.
Lynn is a typical trumper - instead of evaluating the data and
providing a cogent rebuttal, he responds with namecalling.
He also doesn't realize that the Wikipedia article collects
the analysis of historians who base their rankings on the
evaluation of each term using a set of consistent and concrete
criteria.
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 23:01:51 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/19/2025 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:the
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his = >>> ally
until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the >>>>>>> family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the >>>>>>> early 90s.=3D20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of =
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_Un= >>> ited_States#Scholar_survey_summarybest presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew=20
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as >>>>>> one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
=
=20
Purportedly objective criteria:
=20
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
The TDS is strong with this one.
You are, of course, looking in the mirror when you type that.
Lynn is a typical trumper - instead of evaluating the data and
providing a cogent rebuttal, he responds with namecalling.
He also doesn't realize that the Wikipedia article collects
the analysis of historians who base their rankings on the
evaluation of each term using a set of consistent and concrete
criteria.
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
Please supply your data and cogent rebuttal about namecalling.
In my world, the namecalling and personal attacks in this newsgroup
in recent years has almost exclusively been done by the liberals here,
as witness the past few days.
You also don't realize that current historians are almost all liberals and Democrats (well over 95%). There are very few Republican historians out there. Those opining on the rankings and setting up the criteria and weighting by which to judge are Democrats. Their opinion of Trump is not
a surprise.
Chris
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
Please supply your data and cogent rebuttal about namecalling.
In my world, the namecalling and personal attacks in this newsgroup
in recent years has almost exclusively been done by the liberals here,
as witness the past few days.
You also don't realize that current historians are almost all liberals and
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:
On 1/21/2025 1:42 PM, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 15:30:13 -0800, Bobbie Sellers
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
<snippo>
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a >>>>>> series of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the
ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to
reject a trade agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties >>>>>> with Russia, resulting in violent clashes and significant political change
in Ukraine.
<snip>
We barely heard about the Revolution of Dignity in the USA
and I doubt we had anything to do with it. But in 2027 we may have
a similar result as people find that #47 policies hurt them a lot.
I think you mean 2028. Or maybe 2026.
I think 2027 is meant. A crushing mid-term defeat of multiple Republican >>> members of the House and Senate gives large Democratic majorities in
both the House and Senate. That, plus a number of Republican Senators
who don't want to face defeat in the 2028 election, results in the most
massive use of successful impeachment in US history (Trump, Vance, a
bunch of Cabinet officers, Associate and Assistant Secretaries of
various departments, some Judges, etc.).
We are truly into The Crazy Years.
Constitutional Crisis, here we come.
Only a decade ago, this would have seemed insane.
It still seems insane.
On 1/21/2025 1:42 PM, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 15:30:13 -0800, Bobbie Sellers
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
<snippo>
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a >>>> series of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to >>>> the
ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision >>>> to
reject a trade agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties >>>> with Russia, resulting in violent clashes and significant political
change
in Ukraine.
<snip>
We barely heard about the Revolution of Dignity in the USA
and I doubt we had anything to do with it. But in 2027 we may have
a similar result as people find that #47 policies hurt them a lot.
I think you mean 2028. Or maybe 2026.
I think 2027 is meant. A crushing mid-term defeat of multiple Republican members of the House and Senate gives large Democratic majorities in
both the House and Senate. That, plus a number of Republican Senators
who don't want to face defeat in the 2028 election, results in the most massive use of successful impeachment in US history (Trump, Vance, a
bunch of Cabinet officers, Associate and Assistant Secretaries of
various departments, some Judges, etc.).
We are truly into The Crazy Years.
Constitutional Crisis, here we come.
Only a decade ago, this would have seemed insane.
pt
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 23:01:51 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/19/2025 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:the
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his = >>> ally
until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the >>>>>>> family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the >>>>>>> early 90s.=3D20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of =
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_Un= >>> ited_States#Scholar_survey_summarybest presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew=20
when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as >>>>>> one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
=
=20
Purportedly objective criteria:
=20
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
The TDS is strong with this one.
You are, of course, looking in the mirror when you type that.
Lynn is a typical trumper - instead of evaluating the data and
providing a cogent rebuttal, he responds with namecalling.
He also doesn't realize that the Wikipedia article collects
the analysis of historians who base their rankings on the
evaluation of each term using a set of consistent and concrete
criteria.
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
Please supply your data and cogent rebuttal about namecalling.
In my world, the namecalling and personal attacks in this newsgroup
in recent years has almost exclusively been done by the liberals here,
as witness the past few days.
You also don't realize that current historians are almost all liberals and Democrats (well over 95%). There are very few Republican historians out there. Those opining on the rankings and setting up the criteria and weighting by which to judge are Democrats. Their opinion of Trump is not
a surprise.
Chris
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
You seem to live in a fantasy world.
Please supply your data and cogent rebuttal about namecalling.
Pretty much every sentence out of the mouth of your pathetic
felon hero is calling someone a name.
In my world, the namecalling and personal attacks in this newsgroup
in recent years has almost exclusively been done by the liberals here,
as witness the past few days.
You've just made my point. In your context, 'liberal' is perjorative.
You also don't realize that current historians are almost all liberals and
Oh, nonsense.
On 1/22/25 08:07, Chris Buckley wrote:
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 23:01:51 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/19/2025 10:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_Un= >>>> ited_States#Scholar_survey_summary
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:=20
It confused Saddam Hussein too, who thought the Americans were his = >>>> ally
until the bombs actually started dropping.
But ... but ... but ... the Shrub /had/ to remove the blot on the >>>>>>>> family eschuteon from his father's failure to remove Saddam in the >>>>>>>> early 90s.=3D20
His good buddies, the Republicans, told him so.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
My suspicion is that his father will be known to history as one of = >>>> the
best presidents of the 20th century in great part because he knew >>>>>>> when to get into a war and when to get out. His son will be known as >>>>>>> one of the worse presidents because he didn't.
=
=20
Purportedly objective criteria:
=20
GHWB is around 19th or 20th best.
Obama is 7th.
Carter is 22nd.
Nixon 35th
Trump, 45th. The bottom of the list.
The TDS is strong with this one.
You are, of course, looking in the mirror when you type that.
Lynn is a typical trumper - instead of evaluating the data and
providing a cogent rebuttal, he responds with namecalling.
He also doesn't realize that the Wikipedia article collects
the analysis of historians who base their rankings on the
evaluation of each term using a set of consistent and concrete
criteria.
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
Please supply your data and cogent rebuttal about namecalling.
In my world, the namecalling and personal attacks in this newsgroup
in recent years has almost exclusively been done by the liberals here,
as witness the past few days.
You also don't realize that current historians are almost all liberals and >> Democrats (well over 95%). There are very few Republican historians out
there. Those opining on the rankings and setting up the criteria and
weighting by which to judge are Democrats. Their opinion of Trump is not
a surprise.
Chris
If there are indeed few Republican Historians it may reveal the weakness of the Republican Party in regarrd to adopting #45 with his
fascist ideas as a candidate once more.
He has been busy and one of the things he has done is reverse
the sentence of the man behind the Silk Road site selling drugs and
murder to the best of my recollecion.
He is all for suppression of voting rights and birthright
citizenship. Acting very badly from my Independent POV.
Among other things Presidential Biographies and the
Constitution of the USA have been removed from the official
web site.
It is all Trump's will to remove all possible competition
for public attention.
bliss - hobbling off into the electronic void.
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
You seem to live in a fantasy world.
Please supply your data and cogent rebuttal about namecalling.
Pretty much every sentence out of the mouth of your pathetic
felon hero is calling someone a name.
In my world, the namecalling and personal attacks in this newsgroup
in recent years has almost exclusively been done by the liberals here,
as witness the past few days.
You've just made my point. In your context, 'liberal' is perjorative.
You also don't realize that current historians are almost all liberals and
Oh, nonsense.
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
You seem to live in a fantasy world.
Please supply your facts and cogent arguments for this. I gave my
reason; you did not dispute it at all, providing no evidence.
Please supply your data and cogent rebuttal about namecalling.
Pretty much every sentence out of the mouth of your pathetic
felon hero is calling someone a name.
THIS is what you consider "evaluating the data" and providing a
"cogent rebuttal"??? WOW!
On 1/22/25 07:09, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:
We are truly into The Crazy Years.
Constitutional Crisis, here we come.
Only a decade ago, this would have seemed insane.
It still seems insane.
Many people agree, "totally insane" and un-American behaviors
are the standar of POTUS #47.
On 1/23/2025 11:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 09:27:34 -0800, Bobbie Sellers
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/22/25 07:09, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:
<snippo>
We are truly into The Crazy Years.
Constitutional Crisis, here we come.
Only a decade ago, this would have seemed insane.
It still seems insane.
Many people agree, "totally insane" and un-American behaviors
are the standar of POTUS #47.
That's nothing new, for Trump.
After all, it took three tries for him to realize that he really
/could not/ impose travel bans based on his personal prejudice, but
had to have at least the appearance of a reason to do so.
Some have claimed that his EO on gender makes all of us -- female.
Apparently, the definition is of a very early stage of fetal
development, before those destined to be males start undergoing
changes from the female base form. This would make gender-specific
sports teams/leagues illegal.
Well, making everyone female is one way to handle the alleged "trans
problem", I suppose. I wonder if the Supremes, who have already ruled
that discrimination based on being trans /is/ discrimination because
of gender, will endorse his definition and draw the obvious
conclusion: if everybody is female, you cannot treat them as anything
else. Equality at last!
And his EO on birth citizenship claims that children born to illegal
immigrants are not (will not be, in about a month, and its not
retroactive) because they are not "under the jurisdiction of the USA".
I wonder how long it will take someone to figure out that /only people
under the juridication of the USA can be deported, since the
deportation laws do not apply to them/.
And who can say what other gems exist in his EOs? How long do you
think it will be before those whose sentences were commuted are back
in jail on other charges? Being convicted felons (they weren't
pardoned, just released), they can't own guns, and how long do you
think it will be before they acquire some?
How about ~24 hours?
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2025/01/22/pardoned-Jan-6-defendant-arrested-gun-Ball/1151737576465/
"Jan. 22 (UPI) -- Pardoned Jan. 6 Capitol attack defendant Daniel Ball was arrested again Wednesday on a pending federal gun charge."
Might not count, since it seems to be about an older charge.
But the idiot 'QAnon Shaman' has tweeted his intention to buy guns.
pt
On 1/23/2025 11:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 09:27:34 -0800, Bobbie Sellers
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/22/25 07:09, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:
<snippo>
We are truly into The Crazy Years.
Constitutional Crisis, here we come.
Only a decade ago, this would have seemed insane.
It still seems insane.
Many people agree, "totally insane" and un-American behaviors
are the standar of POTUS #47.
That's nothing new, for Trump.
After all, it took three tries for him to realize that he really
/could not/ impose travel bans based on his personal prejudice, but
had to have at least the appearance of a reason to do so.
Some have claimed that his EO on gender makes all of us -- female.
Apparently, the definition is of a very early stage of fetal
development, before those destined to be males start undergoing
changes from the female base form. This would make gender-specific
sports teams/leagues illegal.
Well, making everyone female is one way to handle the alleged "trans
problem", I suppose. I wonder if the Supremes, who have already ruled
that discrimination based on being trans /is/ discrimination because
of gender, will endorse his definition and draw the obvious
conclusion: if everybody is female, you cannot treat them as anything
else. Equality at last!
And his EO on birth citizenship claims that children born to illegal
immigrants are not (will not be, in about a month, and its not
retroactive) because they are not "under the jurisdiction of the USA".
I wonder how long it will take someone to figure out that /only people
under the juridication of the USA can be deported, since the
deportation laws do not apply to them/.
And who can say what other gems exist in his EOs? How long do you
think it will be before those whose sentences were commuted are back
in jail on other charges? Being convicted felons (they weren't
pardoned, just released), they can't own guns, and how long do you
think it will be before they acquire some?
How about ~24 hours?
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2025/01/22/pardoned-Jan-6-defendant- arrested-gun-Ball/1151737576465/
"Jan. 22 (UPI) -- Pardoned Jan. 6 Capitol attack defendant Daniel Ball
was arrested again Wednesday on a pending federal gun charge."
Might not count, since it seems to be about an older charge.
But the idiot 'QAnon Shaman' has tweeted his intention to buy guns.
pt
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/16/25 12:02, Anonymous wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of >>>>> his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact as >>>>> possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they provide >>>>> a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that >>>>> just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the face of >>>>> invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to answer.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well >>>>> in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Wasn't that when Putin stole Crimea and the USA did not
raise much of a stink at this invasion of a sovereign state.
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a series >> of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the ousting of
President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to reject a trade
agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia,
resulting in violent clashes and significant political change in Ukraine.
So people acting within their own nation regarding their own government is "starting a war"?
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/16/25 12:02, Anonymous wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral
part of
his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and
intact as
possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they
provide
a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do >>>>>> that
just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the
face of
invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the
more that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to >>>>>> answer.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very >>>>>> well
in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Wasn't that when Putin stole Crimea and the USA did not
raise much of a stink at this invasion of a sovereign state.
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a
series of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led
to the ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his
decision to reject a trade agreement with the European Union in favor
of closer ties with Russia, resulting in violent clashes and
significant political change in Ukraine.
So people acting within their own nation regarding their own
government is "starting a war"?
The Maidan coup was instigated by the US government. It was NOT people
acting organically within their own nation. The new regime then set
about trying to exterminate all Russians and Russian speakers within
the Ukraine.
On 1/23/2025 3:38 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...
bliss - surgery tomorrow so maybe the hobble will be less
eventually.
Good luck on your surgery. I will pray for you, your doctors, and your nurses.
Lynn
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
You seem to live in a fantasy world.
Please supply your facts and cogent arguments for this. I gave my
reason; you did not dispute it at all, providing no evidence.
Please supply your data and cogent rebuttal about namecalling.
Pretty much every sentence out of the mouth of your pathetic
felon hero is calling someone a name.
THIS is what you consider "evaluating the data" and providing a
"cogent rebuttal"??? WOW!
I have no desire or interest in attempting to persuade _you_
of anything.
But, if you must, start here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nicknames_used_by_Donald_Trump
Perhaps you can elighten us on how the voting registration of
the handful of historians your survey included affects their
professionalism with respect to history. What evidence do
you have that their political affiliation colors their
work? It is actually ironic that you can support Mr. Trump
with all his myriad faults, blatent lies and poor behavior
and can condemn people you don't know and have never met simply
based on their occupation.
Have you looked at the data underlying the aforementioned
wiki page? Have you any examples from that data that support
your assertion that the historians that registered as
democrats have let their political affiliation affect their
ratings in the Presidential Surveys? For all you know,
all the historians that participated in that poll could have been
registered republicans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States
"The scholarly rankings focus on presidential achievements,
leadership qualities, failures, and faults"
Given those criteria, there seems little chance that Mr. Trump can
rank high on the list, even if only only considers his actions on
January 6, regardless of the political affiliation of those who
provided the rankings.
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
You seem to live in a fantasy world.
Please supply your facts and cogent arguments for this. I gave my
reason; you did not dispute it at all, providing no evidence.
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
You seem to live in a fantasy world.
Please supply your facts and cogent arguments for this. I gave my >>>>reason; you did not dispute it at all, providing no evidence.
Let's reset.
I posted a link to the wikipedia article that shows Mr. Trump
ranked last amongst US presidents.
You didn't address the rankings, you just claimed all historians
are registered democrats so their rankings are not meaningful.
You clearly didn't read the page which describes the methodology
of the surveys (which attempted to balance political ideology of
the respondants).
Why don't you, first, elaborate on exactly why you think that
ranking Mr. Trump last is incorrect -- based on the actual
criteria, not some personal assumptions about ideology of the
respondents?
You clearly don't understand the use of Hyperbole in argument
if you're focused on a throwaway comment related to the frequency
of Mr. Trump's incoherent utterances and namecalling. Which may not
be every other word, but could likely be every other sentence.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 1/23/2025 11:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 09:27:34 -0800, Bobbie Sellers
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/22/25 07:09, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:
<snippo>
We are truly into The Crazy Years.
Constitutional Crisis, here we come.
Only a decade ago, this would have seemed insane.
It still seems insane.
Many people agree, "totally insane" and un-American behaviors
are the standar of POTUS #47.
That's nothing new, for Trump.
After all, it took three tries for him to realize that he really
/could not/ impose travel bans based on his personal prejudice, but
had to have at least the appearance of a reason to do so.
Some have claimed that his EO on gender makes all of us -- female.
Apparently, the definition is of a very early stage of fetal
development, before those destined to be males start undergoing
changes from the female base form. This would make gender-specific
sports teams/leagues illegal.
Well, making everyone female is one way to handle the alleged "trans
problem", I suppose. I wonder if the Supremes, who have already ruled
that discrimination based on being trans /is/ discrimination because
of gender, will endorse his definition and draw the obvious
conclusion: if everybody is female, you cannot treat them as anything
else. Equality at last!
And his EO on birth citizenship claims that children born to illegal
immigrants are not (will not be, in about a month, and its not
retroactive) because they are not "under the jurisdiction of the USA".
I wonder how long it will take someone to figure out that /only people
under the juridication of the USA can be deported, since the
deportation laws do not apply to them/.
And who can say what other gems exist in his EOs? How long do you
think it will be before those whose sentences were commuted are back
in jail on other charges? Being convicted felons (they weren't
pardoned, just released), they can't own guns, and how long do you
think it will be before they acquire some?
How about ~24 hours?
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2025/01/22/pardoned-Jan-6-defendant-arrested-gun-Ball/1151737576465/
"Jan. 22 (UPI) -- Pardoned Jan. 6 Capitol attack defendant Daniel Ball was >> arrested again Wednesday on a pending federal gun charge."
Might not count, since it seems to be about an older charge.
But the idiot 'QAnon Shaman' has tweeted his intention to buy guns.
pt
I for one am very happy that our Jan 6. freedom fighters are free again! >They suffered a lot, but their sacrifice has paid of. We should all pray
for the success of our leader Trump! =)
On 1/23/2025 11:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 09:27:34 -0800, Bobbie Sellers
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/22/25 07:09, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:
<snippo>
We are truly into The Crazy Years.
Constitutional Crisis, here we come.
Only a decade ago, this would have seemed insane.
It still seems insane.
Many people agree, "totally insane" and un-American behaviors
are the standar of POTUS #47.
That's nothing new, for Trump.
After all, it took three tries for him to realize that he really
/could not/ impose travel bans based on his personal prejudice, but
had to have at least the appearance of a reason to do so.
Some have claimed that his EO on gender makes all of us -- female.
Apparently, the definition is of a very early stage of fetal
development, before those destined to be males start undergoing
changes from the female base form. This would make gender-specific
sports teams/leagues illegal.
Well, making everyone female is one way to handle the alleged "trans
problem", I suppose. I wonder if the Supremes, who have already ruled
that discrimination based on being trans /is/ discrimination because
of gender, will endorse his definition and draw the obvious
conclusion: if everybody is female, you cannot treat them as anything
else. Equality at last!
And his EO on birth citizenship claims that children born to illegal
immigrants are not (will not be, in about a month, and its not
retroactive) because they are not "under the jurisdiction of the USA".
I wonder how long it will take someone to figure out that /only people
under the juridication of the USA can be deported, since the
deportation laws do not apply to them/.
And who can say what other gems exist in his EOs? How long do you
think it will be before those whose sentences were commuted are back
in jail on other charges? Being convicted felons (they weren't
pardoned, just released), they can't own guns, and how long do you
think it will be before they acquire some?
How about ~24 hours?
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2025/01/22/pardoned-Jan-6-defendant-arrested-gun-Ball/1151737576465/
"Jan. 22 (UPI) -- Pardoned Jan. 6 Capitol attack defendant Daniel Ball
was arrested again Wednesday on a pending federal gun charge."
Might not count, since it seems to be about an older charge.
But the idiot 'QAnon Shaman' has tweeted his intention to buy guns.
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/16/25 12:02, Anonymous wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers� <[email protected]> wrote:
����First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of >>>>>> his empire and he wants it whole and intact.� Or as whole and intact as >>>>>> possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they provide >>>>>> a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that >>>>>> just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the face of
invariable retaliation?� That's the one I can't answer, and the more that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to answer.
����If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed.� On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well >>>>>> in history.
����Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general.� But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
�����Wasn't that when Putin stole Crimea and the USA did not
raise much of a stink at this invasion of a sovereign state.
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
����Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a series����So people acting within their own nation regarding their own
of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the ousting of
President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to reject a trade
agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia,
resulting in violent clashes and significant political change in Ukraine. >>
government is "starting a war"?
The Maidan coup was instigated by the US government. It was NOT people
acting organically within their own nation. The new regime then set
about trying to exterminate all Russians and Russian speakers within
the Ukraine.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 22:08:55 +0100, D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 1/23/2025 11:19 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 09:27:34 -0800, Bobbie Sellers
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/22/25 07:09, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Cryptoengineer <[email protected]> writes:
<snippo>
We are truly into The Crazy Years.
Constitutional Crisis, here we come.
Only a decade ago, this would have seemed insane.
It still seems insane.
Many people agree, "totally insane" and un-American behaviors
are the standar of POTUS #47.
That's nothing new, for Trump.
After all, it took three tries for him to realize that he really
/could not/ impose travel bans based on his personal prejudice, but
had to have at least the appearance of a reason to do so.
Some have claimed that his EO on gender makes all of us -- female.
Apparently, the definition is of a very early stage of fetal
development, before those destined to be males start undergoing
changes from the female base form. This would make gender-specific
sports teams/leagues illegal.
Well, making everyone female is one way to handle the alleged "trans
problem", I suppose. I wonder if the Supremes, who have already ruled
that discrimination based on being trans /is/ discrimination because
of gender, will endorse his definition and draw the obvious
conclusion: if everybody is female, you cannot treat them as anything
else. Equality at last!
And his EO on birth citizenship claims that children born to illegal
immigrants are not (will not be, in about a month, and its not
retroactive) because they are not "under the jurisdiction of the USA". >>>> I wonder how long it will take someone to figure out that /only people >>>> under the juridication of the USA can be deported, since the
deportation laws do not apply to them/.
And who can say what other gems exist in his EOs? How long do you
think it will be before those whose sentences were commuted are back
in jail on other charges? Being convicted felons (they weren't
pardoned, just released), they can't own guns, and how long do you
think it will be before they acquire some?
How about ~24 hours?
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2025/01/22/pardoned-Jan-6-defendant-arrested-gun-Ball/1151737576465/
"Jan. 22 (UPI) -- Pardoned Jan. 6 Capitol attack defendant Daniel Ball was >>> arrested again Wednesday on a pending federal gun charge."
Might not count, since it seems to be about an older charge.
But the idiot 'QAnon Shaman' has tweeted his intention to buy guns.
pt
I for one am very happy that our Jan 6. freedom fighters are free again!
They suffered a lot, but their sacrifice has paid of. We should all pray
for the success of our leader Trump! =)
I wasn't aware that Trump was leading ... Sweden.
But, hey, you want him, you can have him!
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
You seem to live in a fantasy world.
Please supply your facts and cogent arguments for this. I gave my >>>>reason; you did not dispute it at all, providing no evidence.
Let's reset.
I posted a link to the wikipedia article that shows Mr. Trump
ranked last amongst US presidents.
You didn't address the rankings, you just claimed all historians
are registered democrats so their rankings are not meaningful.
You clearly didn't read the page which describes the methodology
of the surveys (which attempted to balance political ideology of
the respondants).
Why don't you, first, elaborate on exactly why you think that
ranking Mr. Trump last is incorrect -- based on the actual
criteria, not some personal assumptions about ideology of the
respondents?
You clearly don't understand the use of Hyperbole in argument
if you're focused on a throwaway comment related to the frequency
of Mr. Trump's incoherent utterances and namecalling. Which may not
be every other word, but could likely be every other sentence.
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 15:52:18 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-22, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-21, Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
You seem to live in a very different world than I do, Scott.
You seem to live in a fantasy world.
Please supply your facts and cogent arguments for this. I gave my >>>>>reason; you did not dispute it at all, providing no evidence.
Let's reset.
I posted a link to the wikipedia article that shows Mr. Trump
ranked last amongst US presidents.
You didn't address the rankings, you just claimed all historians
are registered democrats so their rankings are not meaningful.
You clearly didn't read the page which describes the methodology
of the surveys (which attempted to balance political ideology of
the respondants).
Why don't you, first, elaborate on exactly why you think that
ranking Mr. Trump last is incorrect -- based on the actual
criteria, not some personal assumptions about ideology of the
respondents?
You clearly don't understand the use of Hyperbole in argument
if you're focused on a throwaway comment related to the frequency
of Mr. Trump's incoherent utterances and namecalling. Which may not
be every other word, but could likely be every other sentence.
Oh, I think he understands hyperbole pretty darn well.
And uses it a lot.
As his "claims" regarding historians show.
On 1/23/2025 3:38 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...
bliss - surgery tomorrow so maybe the hobble will be less eventually.
Good luck on your surgery. I will pray for you, your doctors, and your nurses.
On 1/25/2025 12:25 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <vmuibl$1rpvo$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/23/2025 3:38 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...
bliss - surgery tomorrow so maybe the hobble will be less
eventually.
Good luck on your surgery. I will pray for you, your doctors, and your
nurses.
As do I who had surgery today (and will be hobbling for weeks while I
heal).
Good luck on your healing. I prayed for you too.
I have not been in surgery since 2018 and I hope to keep it that way. That was my second heart surgery and it had a good outcome but was too eventful for the electrocardiologist and me both. I woke up in the middle of the surgery when they accidentally nicked my uvula with a sonogram wand and I lost a couple of pints of blood which started me coughing while intubated.
Lynn
On 1/25/2025 12:25 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <vmuibl$1rpvo$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/23/2025 3:38 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...
����bliss - surgery tomorrow so maybe the hobble will be less
eventually.
Good luck on your surgery. I will pray for you, your doctors, and your
nurses.
As do I who had surgery today (and will be hobbling for weeks while I
heal).
Good luck on your healing. I prayed for you too.
I have not been in surgery since 2018 and I hope to keep it that way.
That was my second heart surgery and it had a good outcome but was too >eventful for the electrocardiologist and me both. I woke up in the
middle of the surgery when they accidentally nicked my uvula with a
sonogram wand and I lost a couple of pints of blood which started me >coughing while intubated.
On 2025-01-24, Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
Paul, exactly how does my claim regarding historians show hyperbole?
I gave a citation and facts. Having 33 registered Democrats for every >registered Republican among historians seems like good evidence to me.
Chris Buckley <[email protected]> writes:
On 2025-01-24, Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
Paul, exactly how does my claim regarding historians show hyperbole?
I gave a citation and facts. Having 33 registered Democrats for every >>registered Republican among historians seems like good evidence to me.
It is completely meaningless. You haven't shown that political
registration has any impact on their output.
How much was the cost of the surgery? I frequently hear horror stories
from democrats saying it costs millions of dollars and that you cannot
live in the US due to the high cost of operations like that.
D <[email protected]> wrote:
How much was the cost of the surgery? I frequently hear horror stories
from democrats saying it costs millions of dollars and that you cannot
live in the US due to the high cost of operations like that.
Nobody really knows what surgery costs in the US. You can ask the
hospital for a list price but what they actually charge is much less
than that because the insurance companies negotiate it down. You can
think of the system as being run by the insurance companies, who decide
what you pay, who help decide what the hospital gets paid, and who decide
if you're eligible for a given procedure.
Two people may have the same procedure at the same hospital and get charged completely differently because they have different insurance, but neither
one is likely to get a real accounting of what things cost.
If you don't have insurance, then yes, things can cost millions of dollars
in part because you don't have anyont to negotiate for you. Go to a for-profit hospital without insurance and you can find yourself with a lifetime of debt. But it can also be completely free to have the same procedure, especially if you are on an insurance program run by the
same company as the hospital (what is called a Health Maintenance Organization plan here). Careful planning pays.
--scott
On 1/25/2025 4:51 AM, D wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 1/25/2025 12:25 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <vmuibl$1rpvo$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/23/2025 3:38 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...
bliss - surgery tomorrow so maybe the hobble will be less >>>>>> eventually.
Good luck on your surgery. I will pray for you, your doctors, and your >>>>> nurses.
As do I who had surgery today (and will be hobbling for weeks while I
heal).
Good luck on your healing. I prayed for you too.
I have not been in surgery since 2018 and I hope to keep it that way. That >>> was my second heart surgery and it had a good outcome but was too eventful >>> for the electrocardiologist and me both. I woke up in the middle of the >>> surgery when they accidentally nicked my uvula with a sonogram wand and I >>> lost a couple of pints of blood which started me coughing while intubated. >>>
Lynn
How much was the cost of the surgery? I frequently hear horror stories from >> democrats saying it costs millions of dollars and that you cannot live in
the US due to the high cost of operations like that.
My out of pocket cost was about $5,000 if I remember correctly. My health insurance paid around $10,000 or so. That covered three days of testing before the surgery and the surgery itself.
If you did not have health insurance then I would guess 10X, $150,000.
Lynn
Thank you very much Scott. Very informative! It does not seem as bleak as >some of the more rabid democrats I've encountered semm to think.
D <[email protected]> wrote:
How much was the cost of the surgery? I frequently hear horror stories >>from democrats saying it costs millions of dollars and that you cannot >>live in the US due to the high cost of operations like that.
Nobody really knows what surgery costs in the US. You can ask the
hospital for a list price but what they actually charge is much less
than that because the insurance companies negotiate it down. You can
think of the system as being run by the insurance companies, who decide
what you pay, who help decide what the hospital gets paid, and who decide
if you're eligible for a given procedure.
Two people may have the same procedure at the same hospital and get charged >completely differently because they have different insurance, but neither
one is likely to get a real accounting of what things cost.
If you don't have insurance, then yes, things can cost millions of dollars
in part because you don't have anyont to negotiate for you. Go to a >for-profit hospital without insurance and you can find yourself with a >lifetime of debt. But it can also be completely free to have the same >procedure, especially if you are on an insurance program run by the
same company as the hospital (what is called a Health Maintenance >Organization plan here). Careful planning pays.
Older folks generally have Medicare. Comes right out of their Social Security.
Retired Federal Employees have (or should have) their FEHBA plan.
Unless something has changed, for anything Social Security covers,
/all/ costs left to the patient are paid by the FEHBA plan. Including
the SSA deductible. And no FEHBA deductible or copay or coinsurance
either. For items not covered by Social Security, however, the usual
health insurance nonsense applies, including a deductible. These plans
also satisfy the Part D requirements, AFAIK.
Pretty much all Federal Employees have one or another of the FEHBA
plans, which means a lot of young, healthy people to help keep the
premiums down.
On 1/29/2025 11:14 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
Older folks generally have Medicare. Comes right out of their Social
Security.
Retired Federal Employees have (or should have) their FEHBA plan.
Unless something has changed, for anything Social Security covers,
/all/ costs left to the patient are paid by the FEHBA plan. Including
the SSA deductible. And no FEHBA deductible or copay or coinsurance
either. For items not covered by Social Security, however, the usual
health insurance nonsense applies, including a deductible. These plans
also satisfy the Part D requirements, AFAIK.
Pretty much all Federal Employees have one or another of the FEHBA
plans, which means a lot of young, healthy people to help keep the
premiums down.
As a retired federal employee...
I think you're saying Social Security where it should be Medicare. If
you retire before you're Medicare eligible you continue FEBH coverage.
Once Medicare kicks in anything not covered or not fully covered is >generally covered by FEHB (Blue Cross Blue Shield in my case) but there
are exceptions. Personally have not had one but I know they are in
there. And as there are at least 10 different plans in my area alone,
YMMV. Yes, they satisfy Part D.
My BCBS does cover any Medicare copay. Perhaps it just works out that
way because BCBS pays whatever Medicare doesn't. I retired before I was >Medicare eligible and had BCBS co-pays at that point.
Medicare (and FEHBA) come out of my Social Security payment. I do get a >yearly partial reimbursement from BCBS for my SS payment. Personally I
think this is to make it more attractive than getting a Medical
advantage plan.
I'm not sure what you mean by one or the other FEHB plans. If you're
talking about the actual insurance plans there are several providers,
each having different plans. Some are regional providers, some national.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 22:49:19 -0500, Anonymous <[email protected]> wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/16/25 12:02, Anonymous wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of >>>>>>> his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact as
possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they provide
a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that >>>>>>> just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the face of
invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to answer.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well >>>>>>> in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Wasn't that when Putin stole Crimea and the USA did not
raise much of a stink at this invasion of a sovereign state.
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a seriesSo people acting within their own nation regarding their own
of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the ousting of
President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to reject a trade
agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia, >>>> resulting in violent clashes and significant political change in Ukraine. >>>
government is "starting a war"?
The Maidan coup was instigated by the US government. It was NOT people
acting organically within their own nation. The new regime then set
about trying to exterminate all Russians and Russian speakers within
the Ukraine.
Yet another PTTP (Putin/Trump Talking Point).
But keep right on living in alt-reality. Sooner or later you will find
that /reality bites/.
On 1/23/2025 10:49 PM, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/16/25 12:02, Anonymous wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of >>>>>>> his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact as
possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they provide
a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that >>>>>>> just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the face of
invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to answer.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well >>>>>>> in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Wasn't that when Putin stole Crimea and the USA did not
raise much of a stink at this invasion of a sovereign state.
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a seriesSo people acting within their own nation regarding their own
of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the ousting
of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to reject a >>>> trade agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia,
resulting in violent clashes and significant political change in Ukraine. >>>
government is "starting a war"?
The Maidan coup was instigated by the US government. It was NOT people
acting organically within their own nation. The new regime then set
about trying to exterminate all Russians and Russian speakers within
the Ukraine.
Another Russian troll.
Moskovia delena est.
pt
On 1/23/25 19:49, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/16/25 12:02, Anonymous wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part of >>>>>>> his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact as
possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they provide
a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do that >>>>>>> just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the face of
invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to answer.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very well >>>>>>> in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Wasn't that when Putin stole Crimea and the USA did not
raise much of a stink at this invasion of a sovereign state.
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a seriesSo people acting within their own nation regarding their own
of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to the ousting
of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his decision to reject a >>>> trade agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia,
resulting in violent clashes and significant political change in Ukraine. >>>
government is "starting a war"?
The Maidan coup was instigated by the US government. It was NOT people
acting organically within their own nation. The new regime then set
about trying to exterminate all Russians and Russian speakers within
the Ukraine.
I doubt your words very much. Until Putin invaded, the USA
offered intelligence about to the Ukrainian goverment which they
doubted. If the Revolution of Dignity had been USA inspired don't
you think that the intelligence would be accepted at face value?
You sound like one who is either in the pay of Moscow
or one severly misinformed or disinformted by the media you
are accessing. You are supported by this article of which I
do not trust the source. <https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/four-years-of-ukraine-and-the-myths-
of-maidan/>
But this article refutes your nonsensical ideas. <https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/08/04/ukraine-maidan-revolution-russia-coup- myth-yanukovych/>
While extreme right wing aka Fascistic element may have
participated in the events they got a new President who had some
guts and who was willing to assert the independence of the
Ukraine from Russia. The USA and NATO nations have supplied
weapons to the Ukrainians.
Putin had been misinformed by his intelligence agents in
the Ukraine as to the mood of the people and the government.
He expected a very short campaign and so far his expectations
have been defeated. May it always be so with tyrants.
bliss - hobbling to surgery tomorrow
Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 1/23/2025 10:49 PM, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/20/25 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 1/16/25 12:02, Anonymous wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
First bomb out of the rack from Russia
or its North Korean pal will result in a lot of
unplanned Russian demolitions and NK would be
be history.
Putin won't nuke the Ukraine because he views it as an integral part >>>>>>>> of
his empire and he wants it whole and intact. Or as whole and intact >>>>>>>> as
possible.
But surrounding areas, he doesn't care about except in that they >>>>>>>> provide
a zone of isolation around Russia... and Poland and Czechia can do >>>>>>>> that
just fine whether or not they are habitable.
Now the question: is he stupid and crazy enough to do that in the >>>>>>>> face of
invariable retaliation? That's the one I can't answer, and the more >>>>>>>> that
he isolates himself from the outside world the harder that gets to >>>>>>>> answer.
If we had stood up to the Third Reich earlier
the Germans might not have advised the Japanese that
we were not fighters. Pacificistic Isolationists and
anti-semites kept Roosevelt from helping Europe until
we were attacked by Germany's Allies, the Axis.
Indeed. On the whole, Chamberlain and Petain didn't go down very >>>>>>>> well
in history.
Pacifistic intentions are fine until the invader
is at your door. Then you better hope that you have
learned from the past.
I am very strongly against war in general. But we have war:
You started it back in 2014.
Wasn't that when Putin stole Crimea and the USA did not
raise much of a stink at this invasion of a sovereign state.
That was the month following the US-backed Maidan coup.
Well I had to look that up and the following is a quote.,
The Maidan Revolution, also known as the Revolution of Dignity, was a >>>>> series of protests in Ukraine from late 2013 to early 2014 that led to >>>>> the ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych. It was sparked by his
decision to reject a trade agreement with the European Union in favor of >>>>> closer ties with Russia, resulting in violent clashes and significant >>>>> political change in Ukraine.
So people acting within their own nation regarding their own >>>> government is "starting a war"?
The Maidan coup was instigated by the US government. It was NOT people
acting organically within their own nation. The new regime then set
about trying to exterminate all Russians and Russian speakers within
the Ukraine.
Another Russian troll.
Moskovia delena est.
pt
You deserve to die of radiation poisoning, faggot.
You also don't realize that current historians are almost all liberals and >Democrats (well over 95%). There are very few Republican historians out >there. Those opining on the rankings and setting up the criteria and >weighting by which to judge are Democrats. Their opinion of Trump is not
a surprise.
Also I will point out that contrary to your assertion a gay
man, Alan Turing, helped decode the Enigma machine with a very
primitive computational engine. He was later driven to suicide by
the authorities in the UK who felt much the same about homosexuals
as you do.
Why would they do that? You haven't heard that it is the
married Bisexual men who can be blackmailed? Most Homosexuals, male
or female, do not spend all their time sodomising each other but
working for a living or living comfortably in retirement. One
of my personal acquaintance voluteers to help older people and
works at the Food Bank as a volunteer.
On 22 Jan 2025 16:07:32 GMT, Chris Buckley <[email protected]> wrote:
You also don't realize that current historians are almost all liberals and >>Democrats (well over 95%). There are very few Republican historians out >>there. Those opining on the rankings and setting up the criteria and >>weighting by which to judge are Democrats. Their opinion of Trump is not
a surprise.
I wouldn't exactly call Niall Ferguson or Stephen Kotkin hardcore
Democrats. (Known for their bios of Kissinger and Stalin respectively)
On 2025-02-07, The Horny Goat <[email protected]> wrote:
On 22 Jan 2025 16:07:32 GMT, Chris Buckley <[email protected]> wrote:
You also don't realize that current historians are almost all liberals and >>> Democrats (well over 95%). There are very few Republican historians out >>> there. Those opining on the rankings and setting up the criteria and
weighting by which to judge are Democrats. Their opinion of Trump is not >>> a surprise.
I wouldn't exactly call Niall Ferguson or Stephen Kotkin hardcore
Democrats. (Known for their bios of Kissinger and Stalin respectively)
I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Yes, I agree there
are Republican historians out there (though I would be surprised if
Ferguson was one.) But there are very few of them out there compared
to Democrats. Are you trying to say that's wrong?
The whole reason I entered into this debate was not Trump, but the
claim that a survey of *historians* would possibly objectively rank
Trump. I know historians. My father was a Republican historian and
for decades I would hear his stories of dwindling Republican presence
among historians. There weren't enough to get together for meals at conferences by the time he retired.
33 Democrats for each Republican historian is an amazing ratio. (Note
that Scott would have been spared his embarrassing thread if he hadn't
first invented the fact that it was a survey of *historians*. It
wasn't.)
Chris
The whole reason I entered into this debate was not Trump, but the
claim that a survey of *historians* would possibly objectively rank
Trump. I know historians. My father was a Republican historian and
for decades I would hear his stories of dwindling Republican presence
among historians. There weren't enough to get together for meals at conferences by the time he retired.
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025, Chris Buckley wrote:
The whole reason I entered into this debate was not Trump, but the
claim that a survey of *historians* would possibly objectively rank
Trump. I know historians. My father was a Republican historian and
for decades I would hear his stories of dwindling Republican presence
among historians. There weren't enough to get together for meals at
conferences by the time he retired.
This is likely true and pretty sad, and it's not a sign that historians
have changed so much that the Republican party has changed in that time.
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025, Chris Buckley wrote:
The whole reason I entered into this debate was not Trump, but the
claim that a survey of *historians* would possibly objectively rank
Trump. I know historians. My father was a Republican historian and
for decades I would hear his stories of dwindling Republican presence
among historians. There weren't enough to get together for meals at
conferences by the time he retired.
This is likely true and pretty sad, and it's not a sign that historians
have changed so much that the Republican party has changed in that time.
The sad part is that his father identified as a "republican historian".
A real historian doesn't color their research with their own political beliefs[*].
I wonder if his father's first name was William, but he identified
as a conservative writer, not an historian.
[*] Anyone who has studied history quickly becomes aware that historians
have unconcious biases, usually related to current culteral mores; some historians writing in 1900 often cheered the concept of Manifest Destiny,
and the positive benefits (for the conquerers, not the conquered) of colonization, for example.
Scott Lurndal wrote:
[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) writes:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025, Chris Buckley wrote:
The whole reason I entered into this debate was not Trump, but the
claim that a survey of *historians* would possibly objectively rank
Trump. I know historians. My father was a Republican historian and
for decades I would hear his stories of dwindling Republican presence
among historians. There weren't enough to get together for meals at
conferences by the time he retired.
This is likely true and pretty sad, and it's not a sign that historians
have changed so much that the Republican party has changed in that time.
The sad part is that his father identified as a "republican historian".
A real historian doesn't color their research with their own political > beliefs[*].
When I was at Texas A&M a senior history professor was facing charges of >plagiarism. He was clearly guilty, but he and his wife were politically
very well connected - the person from whom he had "borrowed" didn't get >tenure. One feature of the article was that pretty much his entire
output was dedicated to "proving" that the civil war had nothing to do
with slavery.
I wonder if his father's first name was William, but he identified
as a conservative writer, not an historian.
I recall one odious program in which he discussed evolution. Fear of >speaking from utter ignorance was not one of his characteristics.
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