• (Translation) Blood of the Old Kings by Sung-Il Kim

    From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 16 12:53:19 2024
    Blood of the Old Kings by Sung-Il Kim (Translated by Anton Hur)

    Three strangers unite against an oppressive empire.

    https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/rage
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 16 09:01:31 2024
    On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 13:50:34 +0000, quadibloc <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the >cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire�s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in
    mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.

    The People's Republic of China, which was a strong supporter of the
    nightmare that is North Korea.

    The United States of America, since it has influenced South Korean
    culture greatly, leading to several Christian denominations being
    active in the country.

    Of course, though, the USA is not an evil empire.

    Not yet, anyway.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to quadibloc on Wed Oct 16 09:50:07 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire’s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in
    mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from
    the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. —-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward [email protected]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Oct 16 17:43:31 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Robert Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the
    cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire’s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in
    mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from
    the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    Is the image directly below "I suppose we will never know what those
    models were." only visible to me?

    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Buckley@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Wed Oct 16 19:26:54 2024
    On 2024-10-16, James Nicoll <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Robert Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the >>> cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire’s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in
    mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from
    the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    Is the image directly below "I suppose we will never know what those
    models were." only visible to me?

    Unfortunately, it actually requires knowledge of Geography to
    interpret, which may be asking a bit much. (Nothing can be read of
    the image's labels and what the coloring shows is very non-conclusive.)

    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@21:1/5 to Robert Woodward on Wed Oct 16 15:49:25 2024
    On 10/16/24 09:50, Robert Woodward wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the
    cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire’s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in
    mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from
    the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    For firmly read "by martial law and humiliation" of the Koreans.
    Korea has a long history of division and rulers who wished to be
    treated like gods and were as remote as possible from the people
    who did the work which was much like Japan before it was really
    opened to the West in 1945. Japan has mounted military expeditions
    to Korea for various reasons from Imperial expansion to simply
    piracy.
    Japanese had traveled to the West around the time of the
    Meji Restoration but they did not bring many democratic ideals
    back with them. They were after western science and technoly in
    order to create a powerful state to contest for control of Asia
    with the West.
    After Meji and after the death of his son. Young Hirohito came
    to power influenced by the State Shinto cult and the militarists
    who wished to expand their power on the Asian continent.
    Shortly they usurped the Civilian Govenment and assassinted leaders opposed to the rush to War in China then with the Pacific
    Powers who finally allied to oppose the Imperial Japanese Army, of
    which the Navy was a subordinate branch, led by the USA after Pearl
    Harbor. Which is when the Allies in the Pacific began to make
    progress.
    Korea and Taiwan were quite happy to throw off the Japanese
    rule. And as in the past the Korean Peninsula split into warring
    states. And the result of the Japanese Colonization is emnity
    by both the North and South Koreas toward their island neighbors.

    I read about this stuff because I developed an interest in manga
    and Japanese anime and wanted to understand the background of the
    images and ideas.

    bliss
    __
    b l i s s dash s f 4 e v e r at d s l e x t r e m e dot c o m

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Oct 16 22:59:11 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 10/16/24 09:50, Robert Woodward wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the >>> cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire’s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in
    mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from
    the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    For firmly read "by martial law and humiliation" of the Koreans.
    Korea has a long history of division and rulers who wished to be
    treated like gods and were as remote as possible from the people
    who did the work which was much like Japan before it was really
    opened to the West in 1945. Japan has mounted military expeditions
    to Korea for various reasons from Imperial expansion to simply
    piracy.
    Japanese had traveled to the West around the time of the
    Meji Restoration but they did not bring many democratic ideals
    back with them. They were after western science and technoly in
    order to create a powerful state to contest for control of Asia
    with the West.
    After Meji and after the death of his son. Young Hirohito came
    to power influenced by the State Shinto cult and the militarists
    who wished to expand their power on the Asian continent.
    Shortly they usurped the Civilian Govenment and assassinted leaders
    opposed to the rush to War in China then with the Pacific
    Powers who finally allied to oppose the Imperial Japanese Army, of
    which the Navy was a subordinate branch, led by the USA after Pearl
    Harbor. Which is when the Allies in the Pacific began to make
    progress.
    Korea and Taiwan were quite happy to throw off the Japanese
    rule. And as in the past the Korean Peninsula split into warring
    states. And the result of the Japanese Colonization is emnity
    by both the North and South Koreas toward their island neighbors.

    I read about this stuff because I developed an interest in manga
    and Japanese anime and wanted to understand the background of the
    images and ideas.

    Back in August, I reviewed Showa: A History of Japan by Shigeru Mizuki,
    which covers Hirohito's reign, as witnessed by Mizuki.

    One interesting aspect is that Mizuki portrays himself as an
    absolute knucklehead, the sort of fellow who would, on finding
    himself stuck with boring band duty during WWII, request a
    transfer because he was unaware this would involve being sent to
    the front.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Wed Oct 16 20:13:38 2024
    On 10/16/24 15:59, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Bobbie Sellers <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 10/16/24 09:50, Robert Woodward wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the >>>> cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire’s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in >>>> mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from
    the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    For firmly read "by martial law and humiliation" of the Koreans.
    Korea has a long history of division and rulers who wished to be
    treated like gods and were as remote as possible from the people
    who did the work which was much like Japan before it was really
    opened to the West in 1945. Japan has mounted military expeditions
    to Korea for various reasons from Imperial expansion to simply
    piracy.
    Japanese had traveled to the West around the time of the
    Meji Restoration but they did not bring many democratic ideals
    back with them. They were after western science and technoly in
    order to create a powerful state to contest for control of Asia
    with the West.
    After Meji and after the death of his son. Young Hirohito came
    to power influenced by the State Shinto cult and the militarists
    who wished to expand their power on the Asian continent.
    Shortly they usurped the Civilian Govenment and assassinted leaders
    opposed to the rush to War in China then with the Pacific
    Powers who finally allied to oppose the Imperial Japanese Army, of
    which the Navy was a subordinate branch, led by the USA after Pearl
    Harbor. Which is when the Allies in the Pacific began to make
    progress.
    Korea and Taiwan were quite happy to throw off the Japanese
    rule. And as in the past the Korean Peninsula split into warring
    states. And the result of the Japanese Colonization is emnity
    by both the North and South Koreas toward their island neighbors.

    I read about this stuff because I developed an interest in manga
    and Japanese anime and wanted to understand the background of the
    images and ideas.

    Back in August, I reviewed Showa: A History of Japan by Shigeru Mizuki,
    which covers Hirohito's reign, as witnessed by Mizuki.

    One interesting aspect is that Mizuki portrays himself as an
    absolute knucklehead, the sort of fellow who would, on finding
    himself stuck with boring band duty during WW II, request a
    transfer because he was unaware this would involve being sent to
    the front.

    Well I have read all of Showa and a lot of other of Mizuki's
    Mizuki's work and one thing is clear that like a lot of artists he
    was not in very good touch with reality while growing up. But he
    had talent and however fitfully he trained it, grew up despite losing
    his arm in the War and became a great artist aka mangaka.

    Have you finished his work either Showa or "Forward to Our Honorable Deaths" where he describes in detail his miliiary experience
    in the Imperial Japanese Army. The knucklehead was a great survivor who
    did not understand the IJA's need to send soldiers to an honorablee
    death. Which I think is a very western way of thinking. Also he
    fraternized with the native people which was not a Japanese way of
    behaving at all.

    Another excellent book by a Japanese artist which is the
    lightly fictionalised life of the artist from post-war on.
    Notes from 2009.
    "A Drifting Life" by Yoshihiro Tatsumi is
    a lightly fictionalized memoir in manga format running
    to 856 pages,8 3/4" x 6 1/2" and 2 inches thick,on good
    paper with paper covers
    "A Drifting Life" starts about 1948 with the
    young protagonist obsessed with creating manga and in
    the midst of his troubled family before chronicling
    the narrators journey into the world of manga meeting along
    the way all the great mangaka of the period, and ending with
    the Seventh Anniversary Memorial of the death of Tezuka Osamu
    and the pseudonymous author's musing over a cup of coffee.
    Despite the length it was easily a one day,
    one setting read. Watch him as a child meet Tezuka as
    a University student and see how he helped support his
    family by "Postcard" manga contests. Read about the
    proto-otaku of the time. His initial success and
    exploitation by the publishers of the time.

    His drive to create a manga beyond manga which
    he call "gekiga" or drama manga to distinguish it from
    the children's manga and the 4 panel manga strips which
    were the main forms.

    Nearly 50 years of manga and mangaka history
    in manga. And if it is not precisely gekiga it will
    do as well.
    This is published by Drawn & Quarterly and I
    found this copy at the local Borders for $29.95 when
    I happened to have a 30% discount coupon and some
    spare change courtesy of a friend.

    On the other hand the Osamu Tezuka bio just
    tells us what we knew that he died from overwork
    despite inventing the modern mangaka assistants shop.

    bliss

    --
    b l i s s dash s f 4 e v e r at d s l e x t r e m e dot c o m

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Buckley@21:1/5 to Tony Nance on Thu Oct 17 11:52:55 2024
    On 2024-10-16, Tony Nance <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 10/16/24 3:26 PM, Chris Buckley wrote:
    On 2024-10-16, James Nicoll <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Robert Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the >>>>> cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire’s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in >>>>> mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from >>>> the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    Is the image directly below "I suppose we will never know what those
    models were." only visible to me?

    Unfortunately, it actually requires knowledge of Geography to
    interpret, which may be asking a bit much. (Nothing can be read of
    the image's labels and what the coloring shows is very non-conclusive.)


    Are you maybe looking at this on your phone? On my 15" laptop screen,
    it's pretty clearly labeled - "Japan and Korea" in the lower left, for example. "Sea of Japan" is larger, just "northeast" of the center, and
    the letters J A P A N are larger yet, along the right/east boundary of
    Japan.

    Hmm... Old equipment on both ends. 27 inch HDMI monitor, but one of the
    first ones with undoubtedly lower resolution. And my eyes on the other end
    are getting poorer; cataract surgery is looming and it's getting difficult
    to read hard copy books. I do most of my reading on this monitor these days.

    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to Chris Buckley on Thu Oct 17 09:10:56 2024
    On 17 Oct 2024 11:52:55 GMT, Chris Buckley <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-10-16, Tony Nance <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 10/16/24 3:26 PM, Chris Buckley wrote:
    On 2024-10-16, James Nicoll <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Robert Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the >>>>>> cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire�s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in >>>>>> mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from >>>>> the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    Is the image directly below "I suppose we will never know what those
    models were." only visible to me?

    Unfortunately, it actually requires knowledge of Geography to
    interpret, which may be asking a bit much. (Nothing can be read of
    the image's labels and what the coloring shows is very non-conclusive.)


    Are you maybe looking at this on your phone? On my 15" laptop screen,
    it's pretty clearly labeled - "Japan and Korea" in the lower left, for
    example. "Sea of Japan" is larger, just "northeast" of the center, and
    the letters J A P A N are larger yet, along the right/east boundary of
    Japan.

    Hmm... Old equipment on both ends. 27 inch HDMI monitor, but one of the >first ones with undoubtedly lower resolution. And my eyes on the other end >are getting poorer; cataract surgery is looming and it's getting difficult
    to read hard copy books. I do most of my reading on this monitor these days.

    May your surgery go well!
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to Chris Buckley on Thu Oct 17 09:13:38 2024
    On 16 Oct 2024 19:26:54 GMT, Chris Buckley <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-10-16, James Nicoll <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Robert Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the >>>> cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire�s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in >>>> mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from >>>the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    Is the image directly below "I suppose we will never know what those
    models were." only visible to me?

    Unfortunately, it actually requires knowledge of Geography to
    interpret, which may be asking a bit much. (Nothing can be read of
    the image's labels and what the coloring shows is very non-conclusive.)

    The left map appears to be showing various political entities in the
    general area of Korea. It might be useful with some Korean historical
    movies set a century or two ago.

    The right map shows Japan and Korea. Close, aren't they?

    But neither really /implicates/ Japan, as far as I can tell.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Thu Oct 17 16:55:22 2024
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
    On 16 Oct 2024 19:26:54 GMT, Chris Buckley <[email protected]> wrote:

    <snip>
    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace <snip>


    Unfortunately, it actually requires knowledge of Geography to
    interpret, which may be asking a bit much. (Nothing can be read of
    the image's labels and what the coloring shows is very non-conclusive.)

    The left map appears to be showing various political entities in the
    general area of Korea. It might be useful with some Korean historical
    movies set a century or two ago.

    The right map shows Japan and Korea. Close, aren't they?

    But neither really /implicates/ Japan, as far as I can tell.

    This, on the other hand..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanshin-ron

    in conjunction with

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokushin-ron

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Thu Oct 17 09:57:04 2024
    In article <veou03$j1s$[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (James Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Robert Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    quadibloc <[email protected]> wrote:

    No doubt the comment in your review,

    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace the >> cultures and religions of neighboring countries with the Empire’s
    hegemonic culture? It seems almost as though Kim has specific models in
    mind. I suppose we will never know what those models were."

    was intended as a joke, and was written with tongue in cheek.

    I can think of two candidates off the top of my head, of course.


    And I thought of ONE direct example off the top of my head. Japan from
    the late 19th century to the end of WWII ruled Korea ... firmly.

    Is the image directly below "I suppose we will never know what those
    models were." only visible to me?

    I didn't really notice the part to the right (and didn't need it anyway).

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. �-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward [email protected]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Oct 18 16:09:35 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 16:55:22 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
    On 16 Oct 2024 19:26:54 GMT, Chris Buckley <[email protected]> wrote:

    <snip>
    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to =
    replace
    <snip>


    Unfortunately, it actually requires knowledge of Geography to >>>>interpret, which may be asking a bit much. (Nothing can be read of
    the image's labels and what the coloring shows is very =
    non-conclusive.)

    The left map appears to be showing various political entities in the >>>general area of Korea. It might be useful with some Korean historical >>>movies set a century or two ago.

    The right map shows Japan and Korea. Close, aren't they?

    But neither really /implicates/ Japan, as far as I can tell.

    This, on the other hand..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanshin-ron

    in conjunction with

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokushin-ron

    Those Korean Historical Movies I mentioned above generally involve
    Japan invading Korea at various times in the past. As, indeed, does >/Uprising/, which I streamed yesterday on Netflix.

    My point wasn't that Japan didn't abuse Korea; my point was that the
    two maps don't implicate Japan. Something else was needed.

    One map depicts the Four Commanderies of Han, established by China
    in Korea. The other depicts Korea as part of the Japanese Empire.

    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 18 08:16:37 2024
    On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 16:55:22 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
    On 16 Oct 2024 19:26:54 GMT, Chris Buckley <[email protected]> wrote:

    <snip>
    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a
    relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to replace ><snip>


    Unfortunately, it actually requires knowledge of Geography to
    interpret, which may be asking a bit much. (Nothing can be read of
    the image's labels and what the coloring shows is very non-conclusive.)

    The left map appears to be showing various political entities in the >>general area of Korea. It might be useful with some Korean historical >>movies set a century or two ago.

    The right map shows Japan and Korea. Close, aren't they?

    But neither really /implicates/ Japan, as far as I can tell.

    This, on the other hand..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanshin-ron

    in conjunction with

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokushin-ron

    Those Korean Historical Movies I mentioned above generally involve
    Japan invading Korea at various times in the past. As, indeed, does
    /Uprising/, which I streamed yesterday on Netflix.

    My point wasn't that Japan didn't abuse Korea; my point was that the
    two maps don't implicate Japan. Something else was needed.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Sat Oct 19 08:45:55 2024
    n 18 Oct 2024 16:09:35 -0000, [email protected] (James Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 16:55:22 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) >>wrote:

    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> writes:
    On 16 Oct 2024 19:26:54 GMT, Chris Buckley <[email protected]> wrote:

    <snip>
    "I wonder where on Earth a Korean author would get the idea of a >>>>>>> relentlessly expansionist, exploitative empire determined to = >>replace
    <snip>


    Unfortunately, it actually requires knowledge of Geography to >>>>>interpret, which may be asking a bit much. (Nothing can be read of >>>>>the image's labels and what the coloring shows is very = >>non-conclusive.)

    The left map appears to be showing various political entities in the >>>>general area of Korea. It might be useful with some Korean historical >>>>movies set a century or two ago.

    The right map shows Japan and Korea. Close, aren't they?

    But neither really /implicates/ Japan, as far as I can tell.

    This, on the other hand..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanshin-ron

    in conjunction with

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokushin-ron

    Those Korean Historical Movies I mentioned above generally involve
    Japan invading Korea at various times in the past. As, indeed, does >>/Uprising/, which I streamed yesterday on Netflix.

    My point wasn't that Japan didn't abuse Korea; my point was that the
    two maps don't implicate Japan. Something else was needed.

    One map depicts the Four Commanderies of Han, established by China
    in Korea. The other depicts Korea as part of the Japanese Empire.

    But it doesn't say so. And it has some very strange numbers on it.
    Suffient enlargement shows that these are the dates covered (BCE -75
    [I would think -75BC would be CE 75, unless the lack of a year 0
    affects this], CE 106). Are we to take it that Jin was not part of
    China, at least at this time? Who can say?

    This would be a lot earlier than the films I was talking about, BTW.
    For one thing, they all have firearms in them, although swords are not
    only present but plentiful.

    And the second is just "Japan and Korea". The unreadable stuff in red
    (by the time I enlarge it so it isn't in 1-pt type any more it is too
    blurred for me, at least, to read) may or may not be relevant, who can
    say?

    If I showed you a map of "The USA and Mexico", would you conclude that
    Mexico was occupied by the USA? Didn't think so.

    They just aren't enough. Even allowing for the fact that the one on
    the left is suggesting China rather than Japan as "the Enemy".
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)