On 9/11/2024 3:53 PM, D wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

https://scitechdaily.com/astronomers-stunned-by-unexpected-discovery-
of-new-celestial-bodies-in-the-outer-solar-system/

    Astronomers Stunned by Unexpected Discovery of New Celestial
    Bodies in the Outer Solar System

    Using the Subaru Telescope, astronomers have identified
    previously unknown celestial bodies in the outer Solar
    System, suggesting a larger, unexplored expanse that parallels
    other planetary systems.

    These findings, including a possible second ring of Kuiper
    Belt Objects, could reshape our understanding of planetary
    formation and potentially boost the chances of discovering
    extraterrestrial life by revealing a more extensive and
    typical structure of our Solar System compared to others.
    Discovery of New Objects in the Outer Solar System

    Observations of the outer Solar System with the Subaru
    Telescope have discovered new bodies where none were expected.
    The new objects are likely members of a much larger population
    waiting to be discovered. This discovery has profound
    implications for our understanding of the structure and
    history of the Solar System.

Ahh... so Subaru expanded from cars to telescopes! And planet X might
exist after all. ;)

The car company has nothing to do with the telescope.

The telescope is at Mauna Kea, but is owned by the National Observatory
of Japan.

The Japanese word for the Pleiades star cluster is 'Subaru'. Try looking
at a Subaru car badge sometime, and you'll see the star cluster.

Despite being known as the 'seven sisters', the logo has only six stars.
This matches what is actually naked eye visible now. When the cluster acquired that name, seven were visible, but proper motion has since
moved two of them too close to resolve.

pt

In article <vbvo9d$eq8a$[email protected]>,
William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:

Cryptoengineer wrote:

On 9/11/2024 3:53 PM, D wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

https://scitechdaily.com/astronomers-stunned-by-unexpected-discovery- >>>>> of-new-celestial-bodies-in-the-outer-solar-system/

    Astronomers Stunned by Unexpected Discovery of New Celestial >>>>>     Bodies in the Outer Solar System

    Using the Subaru Telescope, astronomers have identified
    previously unknown celestial bodies in the outer Solar
    System, suggesting a larger, unexplored expanse that parallels >>>>>     other planetary systems.

    These findings, including a possible second ring of Kuiper
    Belt Objects, could reshape our understanding of planetary
    formation and potentially boost the chances of discovering
    extraterrestrial life by revealing a more extensive and
    typical structure of our Solar System compared to others.
    Discovery of New Objects in the Outer Solar System

    Observations of the outer Solar System with the Subaru
    Telescope have discovered new bodies where none were expected. >>>>>     The new objects are likely members of a much larger population >>>>>     waiting to be discovered. This discovery has profound
    implications for our understanding of the structure and
    history of the Solar System.

Ahh... so Subaru expanded from cars to telescopes! And planet X might
exist after all. ;)

The car company has nothing to do with the telescope.

The telescope is at Mauna Kea, but is owned by the National Observatory
of Japan.

The Japanese word for the Pleiades star cluster is 'Subaru'. Try looking >>> at a Subaru car badge sometime, and you'll see the star cluster.

Despite being known as the 'seven sisters', the logo has only six stars. >>> This matches what is actually naked eye visible now. When the cluster
acquired that name, seven were visible, but proper motion has since
moved two of them too close to resolve.

When I first read about this cluster sixty years ago my reference said
that people with "exceptionally good eyesight" could still distinguish >>seven stars.

Was this true sixty years ago, or could my source possibly have >>uncritically quoted some older work written when this was true?
Or was it just nonsense?

There was no point in testing it myself - I was pleased that I could see >>six stars.

At the moment, I can't think of much SF that involves this cluster.

In a tremendous coincidence, the item I am revieweing next Wednesday
is set there.

Cryptoengineer wrote:

On 9/11/2024 3:53 PM, D wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

https://scitechdaily.com/astronomers-stunned-by-unexpected-discovery-
of-new-celestial-bodies-in-the-outer-solar-system/

    Astronomers Stunned by Unexpected Discovery of New Celestial
    Bodies in the Outer Solar System

    Using the Subaru Telescope, astronomers have identified
    previously unknown celestial bodies in the outer Solar
    System, suggesting a larger, unexplored expanse that parallels >>>>     other planetary systems.

    These findings, including a possible second ring of Kuiper
    Belt Objects, could reshape our understanding of planetary
    formation and potentially boost the chances of discovering
    extraterrestrial life by revealing a more extensive and
    typical structure of our Solar System compared to others.
    Discovery of New Objects in the Outer Solar System

    Observations of the outer Solar System with the Subaru
    Telescope have discovered new bodies where none were expected. >>>>     The new objects are likely members of a much larger population >>>>     waiting to be discovered. This discovery has profound
    implications for our understanding of the structure and
    history of the Solar System.

Ahh... so Subaru expanded from cars to telescopes! And planet X might
exist after all. ;)

The car company has nothing to do with the telescope.

The telescope is at Mauna Kea, but is owned by the National Observatory
of Japan.

The Japanese word for the Pleiades star cluster is 'Subaru'. Try looking
at a Subaru car badge sometime, and you'll see the star cluster.

Despite being known as the 'seven sisters', the logo has only six stars.
This matches what is actually naked eye visible now. When the cluster
acquired that name, seven were visible, but proper motion has since
moved two of them too close to resolve.

When I first read about this cluster sixty years ago my reference said
that people with "exceptionally good eyesight" could still distinguish
seven stars.

Was this true sixty years ago, or could my source possibly have
uncritically quoted some older work written when this was true?
Or was it just nonsense?

There was no point in testing it myself - I was pleased that I could see
six stars.

At the moment, I can't think of much SF that involves this cluster.

On 9/12/2024 5:59 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Cryptoengineer wrote:

On 9/11/2024 3:53 PM, D wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

https://scitechdaily.com/astronomers-stunned-by-unexpected-
discovery- of-new-celestial-bodies-in-the-outer-solar-system/

����Astronomers Stunned by Unexpected Discovery of New Celestial
����Bodies in the Outer Solar System

����Using the Subaru Telescope, astronomers have identified
����previously unknown celestial bodies in the outer Solar
����System, suggesting a larger, unexplored expanse that parallels
����other planetary systems.

����These findings, including a possible second ring of Kuiper
����Belt Objects, could reshape our understanding of planetary
����formation and potentially boost the chances of discovering
����extraterrestrial life by revealing a more extensive and
����typical structure of our Solar System compared to others.
����Discovery of New Objects in the Outer Solar System

����Observations of the outer Solar System with the Subaru
����Telescope have discovered new bodies where none were expected.
����The new objects are likely members of a much larger population
����waiting to be discovered. This discovery has profound
����implications for our understanding of the structure and
����history of the Solar System.

Ahh... so Subaru expanded from cars to telescopes! And planet X might >>>> exist after all. ;)

The car company has nothing to do with the telescope.

The telescope is at Mauna Kea, but is owned by the National Observatory
of Japan.

The Japanese word for the Pleiades star cluster is 'Subaru'. Try looking >>> at a Subaru car badge sometime, and you'll see the star cluster.

Despite being known as the 'seven sisters', the logo has only six stars. >>> This matches what is actually naked eye visible now. When the cluster
acquired that name, seven were visible, but proper motion has since
moved two of them too close to resolve.

When I first read about this cluster sixty years ago my reference said
that people with "exceptionally good eyesight" could still distinguish
seven stars.

Was this true sixty years ago, or could my source possibly have
uncritically quoted some older work written when this was true?
Or was it just nonsense?

There was no point in testing it myself - I was pleased that I could see
six stars.

At the moment, I can't think of much SF that involves this cluster.

Calling them the 'seven sisters' goes back to classical Greece,
possibly much further.

From Wikipedia:

"As noted by scholar Stith Thompson, the constellation was "nearly
always imagined" as a group of seven sisters, and their myths explain
why there are only six.[47] Some scientists suggest that these may come
from observations back when Pleione was farther from Atlas and more
visible as a separate star as far back as 100,000 BC."

On the Nebra Sky Disk (1600 BC), there are 7 dots thought to be
the Pleiades.

I don't know what your source was quoting, but I imagine that
distinguishing seven got harder and harder over time. Also,
I'm sure many people talk themselves into thinking they see
seven, since that's what they're supposed to be.

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

https://scitechdaily.com/astronomers-stunned-by-unexpected-discovery- of-new-celestial-bodies-in-the-outer-solar-system/

Astronomers Stunned by Unexpected Discovery of New Celestial
Bodies in the Outer Solar System

Using the Subaru Telescope, astronomers have identified
previously unknown celestial bodies in the outer Solar
System, suggesting a larger, unexplored expanse that parallels
other planetary systems.

These findings, including a possible second ring of Kuiper
Belt Objects, could reshape our understanding of planetary
formation and potentially boost the chances of discovering
extraterrestrial life by revealing a more extensive and
typical structure of our Solar System compared to others.
Discovery of New Objects in the Outer Solar System

Observations of the outer Solar System with the Subaru
Telescope have discovered new bodies where none were expected.
The new objects are likely members of a much larger population
waiting to be discovered. This discovery has profound
implications for our understanding of the structure and
history of the Solar System.

Ahh... so Subaru expanded from cars to telescopes! And planet X might
exist after all. ;)

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 19:53:03 +0000, D wrote:

Ahh... so Subaru expanded from cars to telescopes! And planet X might
exist after all. ;)

Of course you're just kidding, but for information, what happened was: >"Subaru" is a
word in Japanese - and what it is, is the Japanese word for the
Pleiades. Since
they're bright and beautiful, it seemed to be a nice thing to use as a
brand name
for an automobile company.

On 9/15/2024 11:57 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 12:03:59 +0000, quadibloc <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 19:53:03 +0000, D wrote:

Ahh... so Subaru expanded from cars to telescopes! And planet X might
exist after all. ;)

Of course you're just kidding, but for information, what happened was:
"Subaru" is a
word in Japanese - and what it is, is the Japanese word for the
Pleiades. Since
they're bright and beautiful, it seemed to be a nice thing to use as a
brand name
for an automobile company.

Research suggests that

'In Japanese, the word �Subaru� (???) translates to �unite� or �gather
together.�' <https://carvibehub.com/what-does-subaru-mean/>

So, it is the Japanese word for "unite" or "gather together", which is
used as the name of what the Greeks (and others) call the Pleiades.

If you think otherwise, what are the Japanese names of the Seven
Sisters making up the Pleiades? And those names had better be very
old, certainly predating any likely contact with the Western
tradition, not just tranlations/transliterations of names derived from
the Greek names or the Greek names themselves.

None of which changes what the word is used for, or what the car logo
has on it, of course.

I'll also add that the association of the Pleiades with a group of
people is very, very old. Its found in cultures all over the world,
from Australian Aborigines, to Native Americans, to Eurasians

Its similar to the way pretty much all Northern hemisphere cultures
share in calling Ursa Major some variant of 'bear'. Its been suggested
that the connection predates the migration across the Bering land
bridge.

On 9/15/2024 11:57 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 12:03:59 +0000, quadibloc <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 19:53:03 +0000, D wrote:

Ahh... so Subaru expanded from cars to telescopes! And planet X might
exist after all. ;)

Of course you're just kidding, but for information, what happened was:
"Subaru" is a
word in Japanese - and what it is, is the Japanese word for the
Pleiades. Since
they're bright and beautiful, it seemed to be a nice thing to use as a
brand name
for an automobile company.

Research suggests that

'In Japanese, the word �Subaru� (???) translates to �unite� or �gather
together.�' <https://carvibehub.com/what-does-subaru-mean/>

So, it is the Japanese word for "unite" or "gather together", which is
used as the name of what the Greeks (and others) call the Pleiades.

If you think otherwise, what are the Japanese names of the Seven
Sisters making up the Pleiades? And those names had better be very
old, certainly predating any likely contact with the Western
tradition, not just tranlations/transliterations of names derived from
the Greek names or the Greek names themselves.

None of which changes what the word is used for, or what the car logo
has on it, of course.

'Subaru' IS the word Japanese use to refer to the Pleiades. I feel
you're saying 'America' isn't the name of a country, since it is
really A. Vespucci's name.

Check:

"Slit belly swamp" >https://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-NX012/nx012374395.pdf

before exploring one unusual Japanese tale of the Pleiades, relates
Japanese legends associated with them. Check pages 313-315.

It includes two tales as far back as the 8th century relating them to
people.

One has them as children, but another has them as maidens.

pt

On 9/15/2024 11:57 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 12:03:59 +0000, quadibloc <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 19:53:03 +0000, D wrote:

Ahh... so Subaru expanded from cars to telescopes! And planet X might
exist after all. ;)

Of course you're just kidding, but for information, what happened was:
"Subaru" is a
word in Japanese - and what it is, is the Japanese word for the
Pleiades. Since
they're bright and beautiful, it seemed to be a nice thing to use as a
brand name
for an automobile company.

Research suggests that

'In Japanese, the word “Subaru” (???) translates to “unite” or “gather
together.”' <https://carvibehub.com/what-does-subaru-mean/>

So, it is the Japanese word for "unite" or "gather together", which is
used as the name of what the Greeks (and others) call the Pleiades.

If you think otherwise, what are the Japanese names of the Seven
Sisters making up the Pleiades? And those names had better be very
old, certainly predating any likely contact with the Western
tradition, not just tranlations/transliterations of names derived from
the Greek names or the Greek names themselves.

None of which changes what the word is used for, or what the car logo
has on it, of course.

I'll also add that the association of the Pleiades with a group of
people is very, very old. Its found in cultures all over the world,
from Australian Aborigines, to Native Americans, to Eurasians

Its similar to the way pretty much all Northern hemisphere cultures
share in calling Ursa Major some variant of 'bear'. Its been suggested
that the connection predates the migration across the Bering land
bridge.

pt