• Things presented in-story as Good Ideas that seem like really Bad Ideas

    From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 9 03:49:05 2024
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's
    "Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    (How about we exempt Super-Powered Vigilantes)
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Charles Packer@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 9 08:01:52 2024
    On 9 Sep 2024 03:49:05 GMT, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's
    "Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    (How about we exempt Super-Powered Vigilantes)

    For "Prime Directive," did you have in mind "With Folded Hands"
    by Jack Williamson?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Sep 9 13:57:08 2024
    In article <pan$52436$3d388213$3fe8568a$[email protected]>,
    Charles Packer <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 9 Sep 2024 03:49:05 GMT, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's
    "Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    (How about we exempt Super-Powered Vigilantes)

    For "Prime Directive," did you have in mind "With Folded Hands"
    by Jack Williamson?


    Hmm, I had thought "Federation's Prime Directive" would be a clear
    Star Trek reference. As for "With Folded Hands", I don't recall the story presenting the Humanoids' bubble-wrapping as a good idea. (I suppose *they* presented it as a good idea, but the story is not on their side).
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 9 14:42:10 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's
    "Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    (How about we exempt Super-Powered Vigilantes)

    The protagonists of Ben Bova's The Return solves women's insatiable
    desire to have infinite children by secretly using alien super-
    science to install fertility limiters on all women. Each woman can
    have two kids and then they are sterile.

    Some issues:

    It's an egregious violation of personal autonomy.

    Women do not in fact want infinite babies.

    Some women won't have babies at all and some children will die
    before reproducing. Therefore, the population will decline until
    humans go extinct.

    The last will be a real issue for the interstellar colonies that
    head out at the end of the book, none of whom know their population
    can only decline.

    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 9 18:30:45 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's
    "Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    When I watched SF as a kid, everybody had some sort of pocket communicating device. Kirk had a communicator, Napoleon Solo had a fountain pen, and
    even Maxwell Smart had a shoephone.

    But not ONCE did any of them ever get a call about their car warranty.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Garrett Wollman@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Mon Sep 9 19:44:33 2024
    In article <vbnj00$895$[email protected]>,
    James Nicoll <[email protected]> wrote:

    I read a review of NBC's Search (1972 to 1973) in which the reviewer
    was greatly distracted by the agents' scanners. These were communication
    and information gathering devices compact enough to fit into a tie-
    clip or a ring jewel. They seemed to have infinite range and nothing
    appeared to block the signal. The reviewer speculated that perhaps
    they used phased neutrinos.

    Huh. Only 23 episodes. It felt like it ran longer than a year.

    Had it been British, that would be four years' worth.

    -GAWollman

    --
    Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can, [email protected]| act to remove constraint from the future. This is Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
    my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Mon Sep 9 19:40:49 2024
    In article <vbnesl$r81$[email protected]>,
    Scott Dorsey <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's
    "Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    When I watched SF as a kid, everybody had some sort of pocket communicating >device. Kirk had a communicator, Napoleon Solo had a fountain pen, and
    even Maxwell Smart had a shoephone.

    But not ONCE did any of them ever get a call about their car warranty.

    I read a review of NBC's Search (1972 to 1973) in which the reviewer
    was greatly distracted by the agents' scanners. These were communication
    and information gathering devices compact enough to fit into a tie-
    clip or a ring jewel. They seemed to have infinite range and nothing
    appeared to block the signal. The reviewer speculated that perhaps
    they used phased neutrinos.

    Huh. Only 23 episodes. It felt like it ran longer than a year.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Van Pelt@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 10 02:32:56 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <pan$52436$3d388213$3fe8568a$[email protected]>,
    Charles Packer <[email protected]> wrote:
    For "Prime Directive," did you have in mind "With Folded Hands"
    by Jack Williamson?

    As for "With Folded Hands", I don't recall the story
    presenting the Humanoids' bubble-wrapping as a good idea.

    It always seemed to me it was a commentary on the first of
    Asimov's Three Laws. "... or through inaction allow a human
    to come to harm", taken to a horrifying extreme.

    The Humanoids were ... very pro-active about that.

    --
    Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
    mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
    KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mad Hamish@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 10 13:42:56 2024
    On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 19:51:55 +0000, quadibloc <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    I remember a novel titled L5. I thought the author was Mack Reynolds,
    but apparently not; the author may have had a somewhat similar sounding
    name.
    The L5 colonies had a rule; no one could go there whose IQ was below a >certain limit, set at an above-average level. *And anyone born there who
    was below that level would be sent to Earth.*
    The central plot development was that another group was planning to
    start up their own L5 colonies; it was a group of black people, with the >intent of providing L5 space for blacks. The question was: should the >existing L5 colonies co-operate with this project or not. It was
    resolved in favor of cooperating when it was found the other group would
    also follow the same high-IQ policy.
    Why is it a bad idea?
    Well, we know that when geniuses marry, their children experience what
    is known as "regression o the mean". Essentially, there are numerous >different alleles which can cause genius-level intelligence, and so if
    the members of a couple are geniuses from different genetic causes,
    their higher intelligence won't breed true.
    And it costs an awful lot of money to launch people into space.
    So this space colony would basically have to import all its people from >Earth, having almost no ability to maintain its own population by
    natural increase.
    Not a great plan from a bunch of geniuses.

    a) that's your objection to the policy?
    b) IQ is significantly affected by environment

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mad Hamish@21:1/5 to Nicoll on Tue Sep 10 13:52:22 2024
    On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 14:42:10 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's
    "Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    (How about we exempt Super-Powered Vigilantes)

    The protagonists of Ben Bova's The Return solves women's insatiable
    desire to have infinite children by secretly using alien super-
    science to install fertility limiters on all women. Each woman can
    have two kids and then they are sterile.

    Some issues:

    It's an egregious violation of personal autonomy.

    Women do not in fact want infinite babies.

    Some women won't have babies at all and some children will die
    before reproducing. Therefore, the population will decline until
    humans go extinct.

    The last will be a real issue for the interstellar colonies that
    head out at the end of the book, none of whom know their population
    can only decline.

    I think you reviewed something where each couple was limited to 1 kid
    and the population seemed stable?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Sep 10 04:02:13 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Mad Hamish <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 14:42:10 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's >>>"Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    (How about we exempt Super-Powered Vigilantes)

    The protagonists of Ben Bova's The Return solves women's insatiable
    desire to have infinite children by secretly using alien super-
    science to install fertility limiters on all women. Each woman can
    have two kids and then they are sterile.

    Some issues:

    It's an egregious violation of personal autonomy.

    Women do not in fact want infinite babies.

    Some women won't have babies at all and some children will die
    before reproducing. Therefore, the population will decline until
    humans go extinct.

    The last will be a real issue for the interstellar colonies that
    head out at the end of the book, none of whom know their population
    can only decline.

    I think you reviewed something where each couple was limited to 1 kid
    and the population seemed stable?

    If that's addressed to me, yes:

    Eye of the Colossus: A Steampunk Space Opera Adventure
    (A Holly Drake Job Book 1)
    by Nicole Grotepas
    https://amzn.to/2HP8TLo

    Hands of the Colossus: A Steampunk Space Opera Adventure
    (A Holly Drake Job Book 2)
    by Nicole Grotepas
    https://amzn.to/2WzseDk

    Heart of the Colossus: A Steampunk Space Opera Adventure
    (A Holly Drake Job Book 3)
    by Nicole Grotepas
    https://amzn.to/2FLBuPq

    When we meet Holly Drake, she is in women's prison after having
    killed her abusive husband in self defense. It was a clear cut
    case, but due to her husband having been a cop, and corruption in
    the police department, Holly went to jail.

    ...
    ...
    ...

    I did get a bit of a chuckle out of Grotepas's innumeracy at one point:

    "I thought it was for Odeon." Holly glanced at her Druiviin
    friend. He seemed to be talking about the club still. From
    what Holly understood, Druiviin couples only had one child
    -- instilling into their single offspring all of the things
    their line cared for. It was said that their race on Yaso
    had reached a balanced ecological state: resources weren't
    over-consumed and by only having one child, they prevented
    a disastrous imbalance. But when a portion of their population
    left for the 6-moon region, the ones left behind began to
    have two children, to replace those who'd left. The immigrants
    to the 6-moons only had one child, typically.

    I'm not sure what she was thinking there!
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to Nicoll on Tue Sep 10 09:08:34 2024
    On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 19:40:49 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <vbnesl$r81$[email protected]>,
    Scott Dorsey <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's >>>"Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    When I watched SF as a kid, everybody had some sort of pocket communicating >>device. Kirk had a communicator, Napoleon Solo had a fountain pen, and >>even Maxwell Smart had a shoephone.

    But not ONCE did any of them ever get a call about their car warranty.

    I read a review of NBC's Search (1972 to 1973) in which the reviewer
    was greatly distracted by the agents' scanners. These were communication
    and information gathering devices compact enough to fit into a tie-
    clip or a ring jewel. They seemed to have infinite range and nothing
    appeared to block the signal. The reviewer speculated that perhaps
    they used phased neutrinos.

    Huh. Only 23 episodes. It felt like it ran longer than a year.

    That's not, generally, a good sign.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Sep 10 17:34:14 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 19:40:49 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <vbnesl$r81$[email protected]>,
    Scott Dorsey <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's >>>>"Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    When I watched SF as a kid, everybody had some sort of pocket communicating >>>device. Kirk had a communicator, Napoleon Solo had a fountain pen, and >>>even Maxwell Smart had a shoephone.

    But not ONCE did any of them ever get a call about their car warranty.

    I read a review of NBC's Search (1972 to 1973) in which the reviewer
    was greatly distracted by the agents' scanners. These were communication >>and information gathering devices compact enough to fit into a tie-
    clip or a ring jewel. They seemed to have infinite range and nothing >>appeared to block the signal. The reviewer speculated that perhaps
    they used phased neutrinos.

    Huh. Only 23 episodes. It felt like it ran longer than a year.

    That's not, generally, a good sign.

    I have fond memories that I am sure would not be bitterly betrayed if
    I found an episode or two to watch. After all, Columbo is standing
    up. OK, there is the issue I've able to spot the killer in every
    episode so far.


    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Tue Sep 10 18:40:11 2024
    [email protected] (James Nicoll) writes:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 19:40:49 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    I read a review of NBC's Search (1972 to 1973) in which the reviewer
    was greatly distracted by the agents' scanners. These were communication >>>and information gathering devices compact enough to fit into a tie-
    clip or a ring jewel. They seemed to have infinite range and nothing >>>appeared to block the signal. The reviewer speculated that perhaps
    they used phased neutrinos.

    Huh. Only 23 episodes. It felt like it ran longer than a year.

    That's not, generally, a good sign.

    I have fond memories that I am sure would not be bitterly betrayed if
    I found an episode or two to watch. After all, Columbo is standing
    up. OK, there is the issue I've able to spot the killer in every
    episode so far.

    The credits for all eps are up on youtube.

    Box sets are available on Amazon.

    The music sure sounded familier, but I don't remember the show.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to Nicoll on Wed Sep 11 08:23:17 2024
    On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:34:14 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 19:40:49 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <vbnesl$r81$[email protected]>,
    Scott Dorsey <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's >>>>>"Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    When I watched SF as a kid, everybody had some sort of pocket communicating
    device. Kirk had a communicator, Napoleon Solo had a fountain pen, and >>>>even Maxwell Smart had a shoephone.

    But not ONCE did any of them ever get a call about their car warranty.

    I read a review of NBC's Search (1972 to 1973) in which the reviewer
    was greatly distracted by the agents' scanners. These were communication >>>and information gathering devices compact enough to fit into a tie-
    clip or a ring jewel. They seemed to have infinite range and nothing >>>appeared to block the signal. The reviewer speculated that perhaps
    they used phased neutrinos.

    Huh. Only 23 episodes. It felt like it ran longer than a year.

    That's not, generally, a good sign.

    I have fond memories that I am sure would not be bitterly betrayed if
    I found an episode or two to watch. After all, Columbo is standing
    up. OK, there is the issue I've able to spot the killer in every
    episode so far.

    It's been a long time, but my memory suggests that some/most/all
    episodes were more about how Columbo figured it out.

    IOW, the idea was that we would watch Columbo solve a problem that we
    already knew the solution to (ie, whodunit). This is not the same as a
    classic mystery, where the audience is given the same clues as the
    investigator and so may be able to solve the case on its own.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Sep 11 15:34:14 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:34:14 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 19:40:49 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James >>>Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <vbnesl$r81$[email protected]>,
    Scott Dorsey <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's >>>>>>"Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    When I watched SF as a kid, everybody had some sort of pocket communicating
    device. Kirk had a communicator, Napoleon Solo had a fountain pen, and >>>>>even Maxwell Smart had a shoephone.

    But not ONCE did any of them ever get a call about their car warranty. >>>>
    I read a review of NBC's Search (1972 to 1973) in which the reviewer >>>>was greatly distracted by the agents' scanners. These were communication >>>>and information gathering devices compact enough to fit into a tie- >>>>clip or a ring jewel. They seemed to have infinite range and nothing >>>>appeared to block the signal. The reviewer speculated that perhaps
    they used phased neutrinos.

    Huh. Only 23 episodes. It felt like it ran longer than a year.

    That's not, generally, a good sign.

    I have fond memories that I am sure would not be bitterly betrayed if
    I found an episode or two to watch. After all, Columbo is standing
    up. OK, there is the issue I've able to spot the killer in every
    episode so far.

    It's been a long time, but my memory suggests that some/most/all
    episodes were more about how Columbo figured it out.

    IOW, the idea was that we would watch Columbo solve a problem that we
    already knew the solution to (ie, whodunit). This is not the same as a >classic mystery, where the audience is given the same clues as the >investigator and so may be able to solve the case on its own.

    Whoosh!

    Seems like about time for a Columbo reboot -- Falk has been gone long
    enough to make it a respectful interval...
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to tednolan on Thu Sep 12 08:39:03 2024
    On 11 Sep 2024 15:34:14 GMT, [email protected] (Ted Nolan
    <tednolan>) wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:34:14 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 19:40:49 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James >>>>Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <vbnesl$r81$[email protected]>,
    Scott Dorsey <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's >>>>>>>"Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    When I watched SF as a kid, everybody had some sort of pocket communicating
    device. Kirk had a communicator, Napoleon Solo had a fountain pen, and >>>>>>even Maxwell Smart had a shoephone.

    But not ONCE did any of them ever get a call about their car warranty. >>>>>
    I read a review of NBC's Search (1972 to 1973) in which the reviewer >>>>>was greatly distracted by the agents' scanners. These were communication >>>>>and information gathering devices compact enough to fit into a tie- >>>>>clip or a ring jewel. They seemed to have infinite range and nothing >>>>>appeared to block the signal. The reviewer speculated that perhaps >>>>>they used phased neutrinos.

    Huh. Only 23 episodes. It felt like it ran longer than a year.

    That's not, generally, a good sign.

    I have fond memories that I am sure would not be bitterly betrayed if
    I found an episode or two to watch. After all, Columbo is standing
    up. OK, there is the issue I've able to spot the killer in every
    episode so far.

    It's been a long time, but my memory suggests that some/most/all
    episodes were more about how Columbo figured it out.

    IOW, the idea was that we would watch Columbo solve a problem that we >>already knew the solution to (ie, whodunit). This is not the same as a >>classic mystery, where the audience is given the same clues as the >>investigator and so may be able to solve the case on its own.

    Whoosh!

    Seems like about time for a Columbo reboot -- Falk has been gone long
    enough to make it a respectful interval...

    IIRC, there were at least two others, one of them based on /Coogan's
    Bluff/. They rotated as "Movie of the Week" or "Monday Movie" or
    something like that. This justified the expense of three production
    companies and gave each one 3 weeks in which to film (or
    finalize/advertise if already in the can from off-season) the next
    episode.

    I may be confusing two different sets of three, BTW. It has been a
    long long time.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 12 08:42:42 2024
    On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 20:17:34 -0400, Tony Nance <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 9/8/24 11:49 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    Lucky Starr's "Council Of Science", the Venus Belt, the Federation's
    "Prime Directive". Things like that.

    Examples?

    (How about we exempt Super-Powered Vigilantes)

    This reminds me of an example I have mentioned here before, 1-2 years
    ago, but it's a rather large spoiler for the work in question (The Stars >Asunder by Doyle & MacDonald).


    Spoiler for The Stars Asunder below,
    Tony


    Spoiler for the stupidest first-contact strategy I�ve ever seen,
    courtesy of Doyle & MacDonald in The Stars Asunder�


    here there be spoilers...



    last spoiler space for 50 miles...



    A ship belonging to Civilization �A�, which I charitably won�t refer
    to as The Civilization Of Tunnel-Visioned Militaristic Idiots, has
    occasion to make first contact with a ship from Civilization �B�.

    They sincerely believe � as in, it is played straight in the book that
    these people think this will be a successful way to establish relations
    to the mutual benefit of both civilizations � it will go best if they >grapple/tether the other ship, make a hole in their hull, and send an
    armed boarding party through.

    So they're imperialists/colonialists.

    Not uncommon at all.

    So, what else is new?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Sep 18 09:21:41 2024
    On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 20:16:08 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I think you're misunderstanding 'regression to the mean'.

    Yes, if two 150 IQ people have kids, its more likely that they're >intelligence will be below 150 than above.

    But its still likely to be above 100, which is the whole population
    mean. The term should really be 'regression *toward* the mean'.

    Fair enough (and I've seen IQ test scores for my father in high school
    vs myself) but I'm personally convinced that intelligence test scores
    hinge at least as much on how one was raised as anything inherited
    from your parents.

    My father grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere whereas my mother
    (who was the daughter of a commercial fisherman - not known as a
    source of brilliance as opposed to "canniness") regularly took my
    brother and I to the library, parks, other interesting places in our
    city. I was a "life-long reader" from a very early age and when tested
    had the scores to prove it.

    In other words I got a lot of intellectual stimulation growing up that
    my father didn't. In addition I met a LOT of people when my maternal grandfather ran (unsuccessfully) twice for the Canadian Parliament in
    my pre-teen years. Built the (Revell?) plastic models and taught to
    play chess by my grandfather. Plus lots of 'field trips' in school and
    in Scouts.

    Which isn't a guarantee of anything but certainly a more
    intellectually stimulating experience than growing up on an isolated
    farm.

    After all, if good traits can't accumulate, natural selection
    couldn't produce more intelligent creatures (like us) from less
    intelligent ones (homo habilis, for example).

    Sending the dumber kids back to Earth is simply a replacement for
    natural selection culling the stupid before they breed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Sep 20 00:20:00 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:50:18 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Intellectual development any given person is absolutely a combination
    of Nature and Nurture - and the differences we see around us are, I
    suspect, due more the latter than the former.

    However, intelligence absolutely has a genetic factor, else it could
    not have evolved. You don't have twice the brain matter of Lucy because
    of how you were brought up.

    I completely agree with you.

    My mother's paternal grandfather commanded a ship in the Royal Navy in
    WW1 (In peace time he had first been a yacht captain then became a
    commercial fishing captain before WW1 and afterwards)

    His son, my maternal grandfather was first a commercial fisherman who
    later became a cannery owner and after that ran twice (unsuccessfully)
    for the Canadian parliament. My brother and I have teased each other
    for years as to which of us he taught more to - he learned the
    saxophone and soccer, I was taught chess. (I'm no master but have been
    on the national executive of the Chess Federation of Canada and won an international award)
    Mom was a high school teacher while raising the two of us.
    My 3 children were all tested as 'gifted' - my eldest did combined
    honors history and Russian, my second became a commercial artist, my
    youngest is an electrical engineer - you would be correct in thinking
    their talents lie is very different directions. His daughter is only
    two but is well ahead of herself in her vocabulary so we're hopeful :)

    I've read 2 or 3 books a week (some reasonably thick) including a lot
    of science fiction pretty much since my early teens (not counting
    during business school) and have been with computers of some sort or
    another for 40+ years - my kids were very early internet adopters...

    Doesn't make me better than anybody else but the above speaks to a pro-education home background. I would suspect that to be the norm for
    anyone who is enough of an SF fan to hang around somewhere like here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)