On 6/23/2024 12:37 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
Boeing would really, really like to figure out what went wrong with
the thrusters. Unfortunately, they options for checking them in orbit
are very limited, and they're on the service module, which will be
discard before entry, and burn up.
Hopefully, a door won't pop out of this Boeing craft before they
land.
An interesting sidenote: This will be the first time the US has
tried to land a manned capsule on *land*, as opposed to an ocean
splashdown.
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
For those who do not know, this is a play on "The Cold Equations"
awesome incredibly sad short story:
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cold-equations/
In article <v5c7ij$113u3$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
For those who do not know, this is a play on "The Cold Equations"
awesome incredibly sad short story:
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cold-equations/
Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
shitty pre-flight safety procedures. >https://reactormag.com/on-needless-cruelty-in-sf-tom-godwins-the-cold-equations/
I can remember when riding a vehicle built by Boeing was a sensible
thing to do. Now it looks more like an act of desperation.
The _equations_ are cold as ice, and will ever be. But _humans_ can be
warm, and design adequate safety margins into their systems; which
they usually do, when it is at all possible for them to afford doing
so.
John Savard
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
In article <v5c7ij$113u3$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run: >>>
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
For those who do not know, this is a play on "The Cold Equations"
awesome incredibly sad short story:
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cold-equations/
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
https://reactormag.com/on-needless-cruelty-in-sf-tom-godwins-the-cold-equations/
The operative word above is "usually". Sometimes, there are those who
decide that the margin for safety is just too high and too expensive and
the margin is reduced. Sometimes reduced to zero. And it is rarely the >engineers who do this.
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
And it is rarely the
engineers who do this.
On 6/24/2024 6:41 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
On 6/24/24 7:09 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article <v5cjig$13iac$[email protected]>, BCFD 36
<[email protected]> wrote:
The operative word above is "usually". Sometimes, there are those who
decide that the margin for safety is just too high and too expensive and >>>> the margin is reduced. Sometimes reduced to zero. And it is rarely the >>>> engineers who do this.
The optimist sees the glass half-full.
The pessimist sees it half-empty.
The engineer sees a 50% margin against overflow.
The physicist sees the glass is full, 50% water and 50% air.
The chemist also sees the glass is full.
Lynn
In article <v5c7ij$113u3$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run: >>
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
For those who do not know, this is a play on "The Cold Equations"
awesome incredibly sad short story:
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cold-equations/
Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
https://reactormag.com/on-needless-cruelty-in-sf-tom-godwins-the-cold-equation
s/
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 13:05:36 -0700, BCFD 36 <[email protected]> wrote:
And it is rarely the engineers who do this.
Although sometimes they're pressured to put a different hat on in order
to sign on when others do it.
Yes, Morton Thiokol, I'm looking at you and remembering the Challenger disaster.
John Savard
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
I can remember when riding a vehicle built by Boeing was a sensible
thing to do. Now it looks more like an act of desperation.
It's not just Boeing. There was a day when most of the people heading >aerospace companies were engineers.
The last Boeing CEO who was an actual engineer was Phil Condit, who left
in 2003 after engineering the McDonnell-Douglas merger (which was great for >the company but terrible for th industry). And he didn't even have a pilot's >license.
On 24 Jun 2024 18:28:08 -0000, [email protected] (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
I can remember when riding a vehicle built by Boeing was a sensible
thing to do. Now it looks more like an act of desperation.
It's not just Boeing. There was a day when most of the people heading >>aerospace companies were engineers.
The last Boeing CEO who was an actual engineer was Phil Condit, who left
in 2003 after engineering the McDonnell-Douglas merger (which was great for >>the company but terrible for th industry). And he didn't even have a pilot's >>license.
Looks like "managing the design/testing/construction of air/space
craft" will need to be added to "managing nuclear reactors" as things
that people with MBAs should avoid.
As opposed to, say, managing a fast food joint or perhaps even a
ball-bearing plant [1]. Things where they aren't likely to actually
kill people by using their education.
[1] This may presuppose that the customers test sample the product to
ensure that it is acceptable. Then again, fast food joints may be
subject to health inspections that keep the quality up.
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
Did you notice that the two astronauts that they sent up in the Boeing >Starliner are in their late 50s ? In other words, two old people.
Luckily, the SpaceX Dragon can hold up to six people.
In article <v5c8pc$n12$[email protected]>,
[email protected] (James Nicoll) wrote:
In article <v5c7ij$113u3$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run: >> >>
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
For those who do not know, this is a play on "The Cold Equations"
awesome incredibly sad short story:
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cold-equations/
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
https://reactormag.com/on-needless-cruelty-in-sf-tom-godwins-the-cold-equation
s/
Complacency can subvert excellently designed pre-flight safety
procedures. BTW, I came up with an interplanetary space drive
(non-Newtonian of course) that would be very mass sensitive (inspired by
the stutterwarp in GDW's roleplaying game _Traveller: 2300AD_, later
renamed _2300AD) and recalculations would be beyond the capability of
the shuttle's computer and sensor installation.
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 22:03:27 -0700, Robert Woodward
<[email protected]> wrote:
In article <v5c8pc$n12$[email protected]>,
[email protected] (James Nicoll) wrote:
In article <v5c7ij$113u3$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run: >>>>>
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
For those who do not know, this is a play on "The Cold Equations"
awesome incredibly sad short story:
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cold-equations/
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
https://reactormag.com/on-needless-cruelty-in-sf-tom-godwins-the-cold-equation
s/
Complacency can subvert excellently designed pre-flight safety
procedures. BTW, I came up with an interplanetary space drive
(non-Newtonian of course) that would be very mass sensitive (inspired by
the stutterwarp in GDW's roleplaying game _Traveller: 2300AD_, later
renamed _2300AD) and recalculations would be beyond the capability of
the shuttle's computer and sensor installation.
Yes, but having a door that locks so that passengers can't just walk
into your shuttle seems like a fairly simple precaution without much
risk of problems from it
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 11:43:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
Did you notice that the two astronauts that they sent up in the Boeing >>Starliner are in their late 50s ? In other words, two old people.
I object to calling people in their 50s old.
Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 17:01:33 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
Nicoll) wrote:
Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
"Poverty" and "shitty" are, of course, exact synonyms.
On 6/25/2024 8:24 PM, Mad Hamish wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 22:03:27 -0700, Robert Woodward
<[email protected]> wrote:
Yes, but having a door that locks so that passengers can't just walk
into your shuttle seems like a fairly simple precaution without much
risk of problems from it
My immediate thought was "But it was written in the Golden Age when it
was just assumed that only those with an IQ higher than a potato's would
be allowed into space!"
Then reality drops a ton of potatoes on me.
On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:37:23 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/25/2024 8:24 PM, Mad Hamish wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 22:03:27 -0700, Robert Woodward
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
Yes, but having a door that locks so that passengers can't just walk
into your shuttle seems like a fairly simple precaution without much
risk of problems from it
My immediate thought was "But it was written in the Golden Age when it
was just assumed that only those with an IQ higher than a potato's would
be allowed into space!"
Then reality drops a ton of potatoes on me.
I recall one of Jack Williams' CT novels referring to the captain of a
ship handing over its keys (not sure if hatch, ignition or both).
In article <[email protected]>,
Joy Beeson <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 17:01:33 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
Nicoll) wrote:
Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
"Poverty" and "shitty" are, of course, exact synonyms.
I have no idea what prompted that sentence. Does poverty precude
looking in the only closet of a small vessel to check for a stow
away whose mass will surely doom the mission? Are people in possession
of starships generally unable to afford locks?
James wrote:
Joy wrote:
James wrote:
Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
"Poverty" and "shitty" are, of course, exact synonyms.
I have no idea what prompted that sentence.
I was afraid that it was just me.
Apparently, US military vehicles such as tanks and jet aircraft don't
have keys - they are normally stored in secure areas, and lost
per-vehicle keys would provide an failure path in an emergency.
On 6/27/2024 4:19 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
Apparently, US military vehicles such as tanks and jet aircraft don't
have keys - they are normally stored in secure areas, and lost
per-vehicle keys would provide an failure path in an emergency.
Can't speak for jets but armored vehicle hatches are padlocked closed.
Non armored (at least in my day) used a padlock and chain between the >steering wheel and another point. If the key is lost it just requires >cutting the padlock, not replacing the ignition lock. But if someone
wants to drive the tank off and run it into the MP station (Ft. Knox,
70s) they just need to bring the bolt cutters.
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
The real question is, there are 7 or 8 people in those tin cans. Is
there enough food, water, air, and diapers for all of them for another
month ? Or is SpaceX going to have to send an emergency supply ship ?
Can the Boeing Starliner drop without a crew ? I suspect so.
On 6/27/2024 7:08 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:That's kind of a dumb question. OF COURSE the Starliner can be dropped.
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run: >>>
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
The real question is, there are 7 or 8 people in those tin cans.� Is
there enough food, water, air, and diapers for all of them for another
month ?� Or is SpaceX going to have to send an emergency supply ship ?
Can the Boeing Starliner drop without a crew ?� I suspect so.
Undock it, do an EVA to push it a bit and it will eventually "land"
somewhere on the planet.
Now, a controlled drop to a specific area.....
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 19:22:49 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/27/2024 7:08 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:That's kind of a dumb question. OF COURSE the Starliner can be dropped.
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run: >>>>
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
The real question is, there are 7 or 8 people in those tin cans. Is
there enough food, water, air, and diapers for all of them for another
month ? Or is SpaceX going to have to send an emergency supply ship ?
Can the Boeing Starliner drop without a crew ? I suspect so.
Undock it, do an EVA to push it a bit and it will eventually "land"
somewhere on the planet.
Now, a controlled drop to a specific area.....
Perhaps a small explosive charge with a timer would be advisable, to
keep it from coming down in one piece. Ideally, it would come down in
zero pieces, providing a nice show as each teeny-tiny splinter burns
up on re-entry.
At last! A Boeing crash that doesn't kill anybody or do any collateral damage!
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 19:22:49 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/27/2024 7:08 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:That's kind of a dumb question. OF COURSE the Starliner can be dropped.
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run: >>>>
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
The real question is, there are 7 or 8 people in those tin cans. Is
there enough food, water, air, and diapers for all of them for another
month ? Or is SpaceX going to have to send an emergency supply ship ?
Can the Boeing Starliner drop without a crew ? I suspect so.
Undock it, do an EVA to push it a bit and it will eventually "land"
somewhere on the planet.
Now, a controlled drop to a specific area.....
Perhaps a small explosive charge with a timer would be advisable, to
keep it from coming down in one piece. Ideally, it would come down in
zero pieces, providing a nice show as each teeny-tiny splinter burns
up on re-entry.
On 6/28/2024 9:35 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 6/28/2024 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 19:22:49 -0700, Dimensional TravelerIt would take more than a small explosive charge to do that.
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/27/2024 7:08 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:That's kind of a dumb question.� OF COURSE the Starliner can be dropped. >>>> � Undock it, do an EVA to push it a bit and it will eventually "land"
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture
are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
The real question is, there are 7 or 8 people in those tin cans.� Is >>>>> there enough food, water, air, and diapers for all of them for another >>>>> month ?� Or is SpaceX going to have to send an emergency supply ship ? >>>>>
Can the Boeing Starliner drop without a crew ?� I suspect so.
somewhere on the planet.
Now, a controlled drop to a specific area.....
Perhaps a small explosive charge with a timer would be advisable, to
keep it from coming down in one piece. Ideally, it would come down in
zero pieces, providing a nice show as each teeny-tiny splinter burns
up on re-entry.
Starliner has already made one (sort of) successful unmanned trip
to the ISS, and returned safely. It is completely capable of returning >unmanned, no explosives needed.
But yes, on that trip they also had thruster problems.
On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 22:02:41 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/28/2024 9:35 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 6/28/2024 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 19:22:49 -0700, Dimensional TravelerIt would take more than a small explosive charge to do that.
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/27/2024 7:08 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:That's kind of a dumb question. OF COURSE the Starliner can be dropped. >>>>> Undock it, do an EVA to push it a bit and it will eventually "land" >>>>> somewhere on the planet.
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture >>>>>>> are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks, >>>>>>> so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis, >>>>>>> and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
The real question is, there are 7 or 8 people in those tin cans. Is >>>>>> there enough food, water, air, and diapers for all of them for another >>>>>> month ? Or is SpaceX going to have to send an emergency supply ship ? >>>>>>
Can the Boeing Starliner drop without a crew ? I suspect so.
Now, a controlled drop to a specific area.....
Perhaps a small explosive charge with a timer would be advisable, to
keep it from coming down in one piece. Ideally, it would come down in
zero pieces, providing a nice show as each teeny-tiny splinter burns
up on re-entry.
Starliner has already made one (sort of) successful unmanned trip
to the ISS, and returned safely. It is completely capable of returning
unmanned, no explosives needed.
But yes, on that trip they also had thruster problems.
The Boeing Solution to problems:
-- capture the regulators
-- full speed ahead!
There was a time when, around here, Boeing was the plane to fly.
But then they moved to corporate offices to Chicago.
On 26/06/2024 14.42, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/24/2024 12:01 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <v5c7ij$113u3$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture
are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
For those who do not know, this is a play on "The Cold Equations"
awesome incredibly sad short story:
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cold-equations/
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
https://reactormag.com/on-needless-cruelty-in-sf-tom-godwins-the-cold-equations/
There are so many stories about people sneaking on a ship that we have
created a word in the English language for them: Stowaways.
Did that term arise from *stories* about the concept? I was under the impression that
it came from real, physical people sneaking on board real, physical ships.
On 6/30/2024 9:25 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
On 26/06/2024 14.42, Lynn McGuire wrote:I sense a *whoosh*....
On 6/24/2024 12:01 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <v5c7ij$113u3$[email protected]>,
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:Alternatively, it's a terrible story about people with extremely
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture
are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
For those who do not know, this is a play on "The Cold Equations"
awesome incredibly sad short story:
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cold-equations/ >>>>>
shitty pre-flight safety procedures.
https://reactormag.com/on-needless-cruelty-in-sf-tom-godwins-the-cold-equations/
There are so many stories about people sneaking on a ship that we have
created a word in the English language for them: Stowaways.
Did that term arise from *stories* about the concept? I was under the
impression that
it came from real, physical people sneaking on board real, physical ships. >>
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 19:22:49 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/27/2024 7:08 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:That's kind of a dumb question. OF COURSE the Starliner can be dropped.
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run: >>>>
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
The real question is, there are 7 or 8 people in those tin cans. Is
there enough food, water, air, and diapers for all of them for another
month ? Or is SpaceX going to have to send an emergency supply ship ?
Can the Boeing Starliner drop without a crew ? I suspect so.
Undock it, do an EVA to push it a bit and it will eventually "land"
somewhere on the planet.
Now, a controlled drop to a specific area.....
Perhaps a small explosive charge with a timer would be advisable, to
keep it from coming down in one piece. Ideally, it would come down in
zero pieces, providing a nice show as each teeny-tiny splinter burns
up on re-entry.
At last! A Boeing crash that doesn't kill anybody or do any collateral damage!
On 6/28/2024 10:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 19:22:49 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/27/2024 7:08 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/23/2024 11:37 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:That's kind of a dumb question. OF COURSE the Starliner can be dropped. >>> Undock it, do an EVA to push it a bit and it will eventually "land"
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture
are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
The real question is, there are 7 or 8 people in those tin cans. Is
there enough food, water, air, and diapers for all of them for another >>>> month ? Or is SpaceX going to have to send an emergency supply ship ? >>>>
Can the Boeing Starliner drop without a crew ? I suspect so.
somewhere on the planet.
Now, a controlled drop to a specific area.....
Perhaps a small explosive charge with a timer would be advisable, to
keep it from coming down in one piece. Ideally, it would come down in
zero pieces, providing a nice show as each teeny-tiny splinter burns
up on re-entry.
At last! A Boeing crash that doesn't kill anybody or do any collateral
damage!
The problem is with the thrusters on the service module which was never
meant to survive re-entry[1]. The mission plan included a possibility
that the astronauts could remain up to 45 days, and that has been
extended to 90. As there is nothing wrong with the crew module they
could leave now but the capsule is being used as a test bed. On the
ground fixes are being worked, then tested by the astronauts.
They have fixed four out of the five thrusters that failed.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/science/nasa-boeing-starliner-mission-90-days-scn/index.html
Boeing would really, really like to figure out what went wrong with
the thrusters. Unfortunately, they options for checking them in orbit
are very limited, and they're on the service module, which will be
discard before entry, and burn up.
Hopefully, a door won't pop out of this Boeing craft before they
land.
An interesting sidenote: This will be the first time the US has
tried to land a manned capsule on *land*, as opposed to an ocean
splashdown.
I object to calling people in their 50s old.
Luckily, the SpaceX Dragon can hold up to six people.
I am 63 for a couple of more days, I am OLD.
On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 08:37:52 -0700, Paul S Person ><[email protected]d> wrote:
The Boeing Solution to problems:
-- capture the regulators
-- full speed ahead!
There was a time when, around here, Boeing was the plane to fly.
But then they moved to corporate offices to Chicago.
In terms of corporate liveability (particularly for people accustomed
to the sort of perks the corporate offices normally offer) Seattle is
much nicer than Chicago.
The Boeing Solution to problems:
-- capture the regulators
-- full speed ahead!
There was a time when, around here, Boeing was the plane to fly.
But then they moved to corporate offices to Chicago.
On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 08:37:52 -0700, Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Boeing Solution to problems:
-- capture the regulators
-- full speed ahead!
There was a time when, around here, Boeing was the plane to fly.
But then they moved to corporate offices to Chicago.
In terms of corporate liveability (particularly for people accustomed
to the sort of perks the corporate offices normally offer) Seattle is
much nicer than Chicago.
Of course Boeing Field is about 25-30 min by I-5 north of downtown
Seattle...
The Horny Goat wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 14:13:33 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
I object to calling people in their 50s old.
Luckily, the SpaceX Dragon can hold up to six people.
I am 63 for a couple of more days, I am OLD.
I must be positively decrepit being 5 years older than you...
Kids these days!
The Horny Goat <[email protected]> writes:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 08:37:52 -0700, Paul S Person >><[email protected]d> wrote:
The Boeing Solution to problems:
-- capture the regulators
-- full speed ahead!
There was a time when, around here, Boeing was the plane to fly.
But then they moved to corporate offices to Chicago.
In terms of corporate liveability (particularly for people accustomed
to the sort of perks the corporate offices normally offer) Seattle is
much nicer than Chicago.
They didn't stay long in Chicago, they wasted another billion dollars
moving to northern virginia/DC area.
Pointless b-school bullshit has destroyed a formerly excellent
engineering company.
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
In article <[email protected]>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
Interesting to note the way margins of a real-life space venture are run:
Two astronauts have been stuck at the ISS for an extra two weeks,
so far, because their ride has flat tires, and it's not a crisis,
and nobody has had to volunteer to step out the airlock.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Things are looking worse:
https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-likely-to-significantly-delay-the-launch-of-crew-9-due-to-starliner-issues/
Software struggles
NASA has quietly been studying the possibility of crew
returning in a Dragon for more than a month. As NASA and
Boeing engineers have yet to identify a root cause of the
thruster failure, the possibility of Wilmore and Williams
returning on a Dragon spacecraft has increased in the last
10 days. NASA has consistently said that 'crew safety' will
be its No. 1 priority in deciding how to proceed.
The Crew 9 delay is relevant to the Starliner dilemma for
a couple of reasons. One, it gives NASA more time to determine
the flight-worthiness of Starliner. However, there is also
another surprising reason for the delay--the need to update
Starliner's flight software. Three separate, well-placed
sources have confirmed to Ars that the current flight
software on board Starliner cannot perform an automated
undocking from the space station and entry into Earth's
atmosphere.
At first blush, this seems absurd. After all, Boeing's
Orbital Flight Test 2 mission in May 2022 was a fully
automated test of the Starliner vehicle. During this mission,
the spacecraft flew up to the space station without crew
on board and then returned to Earth six days later. Although
the 2022 flight test was completed by a different Starliner
vehicle, it clearly demonstrated the ability of the program's
flight software to autonomously dock and return to Earth.
Boeing did not respond to a media query about why this
capability was removed for the crew flight test.
"At first blush, this seems absurd."
Well, yes. Second blush as well.
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 14:13:33 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<[email protected]> wrote:
I object to calling people in their 50s old.
Luckily, the SpaceX Dragon can hold up to six people.
I am 63 for a couple of more days, I am OLD.
I must be positively decrepit being 5 years older than you...
Anytime any engineering business names an accountant as the CEO, write
it off. Boeing did so several years ago. The accountants will drive
the costs to zero no matter what happens to the employees.
Anytime any engineering business names an accountant as the CEO, write
it off. Boeing did so several years ago. The accountants will drive
the costs to zero no matter what happens to the employees.
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
Anytime any engineering business names an accountant as the CEO, write
it off. Boeing did so several years ago. The accountants will drive
the costs to zero no matter what happens to the employees.
When I was a kid, Boeing, Lockheed, and Douglas all had presidents who
were certified to fly their company's products and sometimes did.
This is no longer the case; it is as if General Motors was run by someone
who couldn't drive.
Note that Air Tractor's president can fly his company's products. Not
sure about Cessna or Piper anymore.
--scott
On 8/9/2024 11:57 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Lynn McGuire <[email protected]> wrote:
Anytime any engineering business names an accountant as the CEO, write
it off. Boeing did so several years ago. The accountants will drive
the costs to zero no matter what happens to the employees.
When I was a kid, Boeing, Lockheed, and Douglas all had presidents who
were certified to fly their company's products and sometimes did.
This is no longer the case; it is as if General Motors was run by someone
who couldn't drive.
Note that Air Tractor's president can fly his company's products. Not
sure about Cessna or Piper anymore.
--scott
Hughes Aircraft too.
Lynn
On 8/9/2024 12:29 AM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
On 09/08/2024 10:35, Lynn McGuire wrote:
[SNIP]>
Anytime any engineering business names an accountant as the CEO, write it >>> off. Boeing did so several years ago. The accountants will drive the >>> costs to zero no matter what happens to the employees.
Or to the product.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
True dat. Each is equally damaged.
Lynn
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