• (Nebula) Nebula Finalists 1975

    From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 18 13:45:07 2024
    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

    The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
    Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick
    334 by Thomas M. Disch
    The Godwhale by T. J. Bass

    I've read the Le Guin and the Bass, although I was aware of the other two.


    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novellas Have You Read?

    Born with the Dead by Robert Silverberg
    A Song for Lya by George R. R. Martin
    On the Street of the Serpents or, The Assassination of Chairman Mao, As Effected by the Author in Seville, Spain, in the Spring of 1992, a Year of No Certain Historicity by Michael Bishop

    All of them.


    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novelettes Have You Read?

    If the Stars Are Gods by Gregory Benford and Gordon Eklund
    The Rest Is Silence by Charles L. Grant
    Twilla by Tom Reamy

    The first and the last. I am not well read in Grant's work.


    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Short Stories Have You Read?

    The Day Before the Revolution by Ursula K. Le Guin
    The Engine at Heartspring's Center by Roger Zelazny
    After King Kong Fell by Philip Jose Farmer

    The Le Guin and the Zelazny.


    Which 1975 Nebula Dramatic Presentation Have You Seen?

    Sleeper by Woody Allen
    Frankenstein: The True Story by Don Bachardy and Christopher Isherwood
    The Fantastic Planet by Steve Hayes and Rene Laloux and Roland Topor
    and Stefan Wul

    Only the Woody Allen. All I remember is the scene with the VW Beetle.
    I've never heard of the other two film. I don't know why this
    category existed at this time.
    --
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  • From Don@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Mon Mar 18 17:04:53 2024
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

    The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
    Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick

    _Flow_ was read by me. As you can personally attest, PKD isn't for
    everyone. Yet he seems to mostly work for me. Presumably PKD's
    partially New Wave, given the appearance of "Faith of Our Fathers"
    in _Dangerous Visions_?
    Speaking of ambiguous utopia, yesterday a different New Wave
    novel was jettisoned by me half way through for failure to follow a
    plot, or plotlessness. A leading Lafferty scholar (how many authors
    can claim their own personal scholar?) warns as much in his Intro to
    Lafferty [1]:

    If the [short] stories break many of the "rules" of writing-
    and they do, departing sharply at times from conventions of
    characterization, pacing, and plot-then they do so at a
    manageable length. The novels tend to sprawl, binding
    together episodes less through elegant plot mechanics than
    via other logics that are not always immediately evident.

    Lafferty's toilet humor was the sprawl's last straw. It served to stop
    the stool show:

    "Fox-firk, I cast better lumps in the stool than the pack of
    you can say in a night's talk," Thomas said angrily, "and I'm
    called to do it now. Begging your pardons but I must go to
    the henry. Or is it called the charles in this realm,
    Emperor?"

    "Call it what you wish, Thomas," the young Emperor said. And
    then he winked at Evita a wink that was like lightning between
    them, and Thomas caught it.

    "What is the levity here?" he demanded still more angrily.
    "Cannot an honest man go to the henry without being mocked?"

    "It is only that there is a citizen of Goslar with an unusual
    means of livelihood," the Emperor said. "It is a trade that
    has been passed down from father to son. We will be listening
    for the lilt of your voice, good Thomas." ...

    And then came the high angry lilt of the voice of Thomas from
    the little henry out back of the royal shack. All the
    frustration of the ages was in that furious denunciation that
    Thomas was loosening on someone.

    Evita and the Emperor Charles and the green-robe and the man
    who had lost his wife except her bones all went into spasms
    of laughter.

    Anyhow, PKD seems like a good alternative for my mp3 player.

    Note.

    [1] <https://www.loa.org/news-and-views/1571-reintroducing-r-a-lafferty-a-8220master8221-for-the-past-present-and-future/>

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

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  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Mar 18 17:51:09 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, Don <[email protected]> wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

    The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
    Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick

    _Flow_ was read by me. As you can personally attest, PKD isn't for
    everyone. Yet he seems to mostly work for me. Presumably PKD's
    partially New Wave, given the appearance of "Faith of Our Fathers"
    in _Dangerous Visions_?
    Speaking of ambiguous utopia, yesterday a different New Wave
    novel was jettisoned by me half way through for failure to follow a
    plot, or plotlessness. A leading Lafferty scholar (how many authors
    can claim their own personal scholar?) warns as much in his Intro to
    Lafferty [1]:

    [big snip]

    I do not get the attraction of Lafferty at all.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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  • From Chris Buckley@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Mon Mar 18 17:47:30 2024
    On 2024-03-18, James Nicoll <[email protected]> wrote:
    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

    The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
    Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick
    334 by Thomas M. Disch
    The Godwhale by T. J. Bass

    I've read the Le Guin and the Bass, although I was aware of the other two.

    Read all. _The Dispossessed_ is the only Favorite; the others
    aren't close (I'm surprised the Bass is a Nebula nominee).


    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novellas Have You Read?

    Born with the Dead by Robert Silverberg
    A Song for Lya by George R. R. Martin
    On the Street of the Serpents or, The Assassination of Chairman Mao, As Effected by the Author in Seville, Spain, in the Spring of 1992, a Year of No Certain Historicity by Michael Bishop

    All of them.

    Not the Bishop - the other two are quite good.

    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novelettes Have You Read?

    If the Stars Are Gods by Gregory Benford and Gordon Eklund
    The Rest Is Silence by Charles L. Grant
    Twilla by Tom Reamy

    The first and the last. I am not well read in Grant's work.

    Likewise, though I'm not positive I read "If the Stars Are Gods" in novelette form - I remember the novel.


    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Short Stories Have You Read?

    The Day Before the Revolution by Ursula K. Le Guin
    The Engine at Heartspring's Center by Roger Zelazny
    After King Kong Fell by Philip Jose Farmer

    The Le Guin and the Zelazny.

    Just the Le Guin. I like Zelazny short stories but don't have the
    collection this one was in.


    Which 1975 Nebula Dramatic Presentation Have You Seen?

    Sleeper by Woody Allen
    Frankenstein: The True Story by Don Bachardy and Christopher Isherwood
    The Fantastic Planet by Steve Hayes and Rene Laloux and Roland Topor
    and Stefan Wul

    Only the Woody Allen. All I remember is the scene with the VW Beetle.
    I've never heard of the other two film. I don't know why this
    category existed at this time.

    Only the Allen

    Chris

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  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Mar 18 23:13:16 2024
    In article <utacp2$d4af$[email protected]>,
    William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

    The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
    334 by Thomas M. Disch

    Only these, and it took me thirty five years to finish the LeGuin. I
    kicked myself when I realized how good it is.

    And twenty years to get the reference in the title of Dick's novel.

    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novellas Have You Read?

    Born with the Dead by Robert Silverberg
    A Song for Lya by George R. R. Martin


    Just these.



    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novelettes Have You Read?

    If the Stars Are Gods by Gregory Benford and Gordon Eklund

    Only this.


    The Day Before the Revolution by Ursula K. Le Guin
    The Engine at Heartspring's Center by Roger Zelazny
    After King Kong Fell by Philip Jose Farmer

    I recall none of them. I missed a Zelazny?

    You missed The Last Defender of Camelot collection?
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to William Hyde on Mon Mar 18 17:18:21 2024
    On 3/18/2024 2:49 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, Don  <[email protected]> wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

    The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
    Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick

    _Flow_ was read by me. As you can personally attest, PKD isn't for
    everyone. Yet he seems to mostly work for me. Presumably PKD's
    partially New Wave, given the appearance of "Faith of Our Fathers"
    in _Dangerous Visions_?
        Speaking of ambiguous utopia, yesterday a different New Wave
    novel was jettisoned by me half way through for failure to follow a
    plot, or plotlessness. A leading Lafferty scholar (how many authors
    can claim their own personal scholar?) warns as much in his Intro to
    Lafferty [1]:

    [big snip]

    I do not get the attraction of Lafferty at all.

    I can understand that, in general.

    But not even "900 Grandmothers"?

    Sounds like someone is going to get loved to death.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

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  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to William Hyde on Tue Mar 19 15:50:18 2024
    On 19/03/24 10:49, William Hyde wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, Don  <[email protected]> wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

    The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
    Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick

    _Flow_ was read by me. As you can personally attest, PKD isn't for
    everyone. Yet he seems to mostly work for me. Presumably PKD's
    partially New Wave, given the appearance of "Faith of Our Fathers"
    in _Dangerous Visions_?
        Speaking of ambiguous utopia, yesterday a different New Wave
    novel was jettisoned by me half way through for failure to follow a
    plot, or plotlessness. A leading Lafferty scholar (how many authors
    can claim their own personal scholar?) warns as much in his Intro to
    Lafferty [1]:

    [big snip]

    I do not get the attraction of Lafferty at all.

    I can understand that, in general.

    But not even "900 Grandmothers"?


    I haven't finished a Lafferty novel and although I do not read many
    short stories, many of Lafferty's short stories are brilliantly clever.
    I don't like ghost stories, my favourites of his being con men tales
    where the con man can be anything from a woman to a supernatural being.
    If I read three in a row, the first is forgotten before the third is
    finished!

    I enjoy PK Dick and Flow My Tears which was a little confusing. In your
    other post were you referring to the 'song"?

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  • From Don@21:1/5 to Titus G on Tue Mar 19 19:26:36 2024
    Titus G wrote:
    William Hyde wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Don wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

    The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
    Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick

    _Flow_ was read by me. As you can personally attest, PKD isn't for
    everyone. Yet he seems to mostly work for me. Presumably PKD's
    partially New Wave, given the appearance of "Faith of Our Fathers"
    in _Dangerous Visions_?
        Speaking of ambiguous utopia, yesterday a different New Wave
    novel was jettisoned by me half way through for failure to follow a
    plot, or plotlessness. A leading Lafferty scholar (how many authors
    can claim their own personal scholar?) warns as much in his Intro to
    Lafferty [1]:

    [big snip]

    I do not get the attraction of Lafferty at all.

    I can understand that, in general.

    But not even "900 Grandmothers"?


    I haven't finished a Lafferty novel and although I do not read many
    short stories, many of Lafferty's short stories are brilliantly clever.
    I don't like ghost stories, my favourites of his being con men tales
    where the con man can be anything from a woman to a supernatural being.
    If I read three in a row, the first is forgotten before the third is finished!

    I enjoy PK Dick and Flow My Tears which was a little confusing. In your
    other post were you referring to the 'song"?

    Lafferty's short stories work for me. Perhaps readers need to fragmen-
    tize his longer novels to take thought timeouts between situations.
    The idea density in his novels may be unsuitable for long audiobooks.
    _Past Master_ may very well need to be read to appreciate it.
    Lafferty's Hopp-Equation Space piques my interest. In the words of
    leading Lafferty scholar Ferguson:

    Thus [Lafferty] maps the navigation of Hopp-Equation Space
    onto the navigation of Laffertian space; the journey becomes
    a metaphor for reading, well, any of his novels really, but
    for Past Master in particular.

    And in Lafferty's own words:

    The Law of Conservation of Psychic Totality will not be
    abridged. There were four and a half years of psychic
    awareness to be compressed into one month, and it forced
    its compression into these intense and rapid dreams.

    There is a great lot of psychic space debris, and when
    one enters its area on Hopp-Equation flight one experiences
    it. Every poignant thing that ever happened, every comic
    or horrifying or exalting episode that ever took place,
    is still drifting somewhere in space. One runs into
    fragments (and concentrations) of billions of minds
    there; it is never lost, it is only spread out thin.

    My mind sees parallels between Hopp-Equation Space and the supra-
    cosmos, orthogonal multi-verse exposition found in Perry Rhodan's
    Die Meister der Insel Zyklus.

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Mar 19 20:15:16 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, Don <[email protected]> wrote:
    Titus G wrote:
    William Hyde wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Don wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Which 1975 Nebula Finalist Novels Have You Read?

    The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
    Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick

    _Flow_ was read by me. As you can personally attest, PKD isn't for
    everyone. Yet he seems to mostly work for me. Presumably PKD's
    partially New Wave, given the appearance of "Faith of Our Fathers"
    in _Dangerous Visions_?
        Speaking of ambiguous utopia, yesterday a different New Wave
    novel was jettisoned by me half way through for failure to follow a
    plot, or plotlessness. A leading Lafferty scholar (how many authors
    can claim their own personal scholar?) warns as much in his Intro to >>>>> Lafferty [1]:

    [big snip]

    I do not get the attraction of Lafferty at all.

    I can understand that, in general.

    But not even "900 Grandmothers"?


    I haven't finished a Lafferty novel and although I do not read many
    short stories, many of Lafferty's short stories are brilliantly clever.
    I don't like ghost stories, my favourites of his being con men tales
    where the con man can be anything from a woman to a supernatural being.
    If I read three in a row, the first is forgotten before the third is
    finished!

    I enjoy PK Dick and Flow My Tears which was a little confusing. In your
    other post were you referring to the 'song"?

    Lafferty's short stories work for me. Perhaps readers need to fragmen-
    tize his longer novels to take thought timeouts between situations.
    The idea density in his novels may be unsuitable for long audiobooks.
    _Past Master_ may very well need to be read to appreciate it.
    Lafferty's Hopp-Equation Space piques my interest. In the words of
    leading Lafferty scholar Ferguson:

    Thus [Lafferty] maps the navigation of Hopp-Equation Space
    onto the navigation of Laffertian space; the journey becomes
    a metaphor for reading, well, any of his novels really, but
    for Past Master in particular.

    And in Lafferty's own words:

    The Law of Conservation of Psychic Totality will not be
    abridged. There were four and a half years of psychic
    awareness to be compressed into one month, and it forced
    its compression into these intense and rapid dreams.

    There is a great lot of psychic space debris, and when
    one enters its area on Hopp-Equation flight one experiences
    it. Every poignant thing that ever happened, every comic
    or horrifying or exalting episode that ever took place,
    is still drifting somewhere in space. One runs into
    fragments (and concentrations) of billions of minds
    there; it is never lost, it is only spread out thin.

    My mind sees parallels between Hopp-Equation Space and the supra-
    cosmos, orthogonal multi-verse exposition found in Perry Rhodan's
    Die Meister der Insel Zyklus.

    Danke,


    As I recall, if you like the Lafferty shorts and not the novels,
    _Space Chantey_ may be sort of an in-between point, having been
    half of an Ace-Double.

    "It was a damned dumb kid we had meddling with our equipment,"
    Bramble complained. "But so far we've figured out a purpose
    for everything he did, except the equivalent-day recorder
    now, and the Dong button."

    The Dong button was just that, a big green button with the
    word Dong engraved on it. You pushed it, and it went dong.
    Well, that was almost too simple. Shouldn't here not be a
    deeper reason for it? And the small instruction plate over
    it didn't add much. It read: "Wrong prong, bong gong."

    "There's no more to the button than is apparent?" Roadstrum
    asked Crewman Bramble.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 20 16:56:44 2024
    Snip
    On 20/03/24 09:15, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    As I recall, if you like the Lafferty shorts and not the novels,
    _Space Chantey_ may be sort of an in-between point, having been
    half of an Ace-Double.

    That is the novel I began, but didn't get very far through, after it was suggested here a long time ago, perhaps by you?
    I have "Archipelago" to read and the opening chapters were as
    entertaining to begin as his short stories are.
    Many of his Kindle novels are only NZ$2 at Amazon Australia but I
    noticed this hard back for NZ$560.96c; just to the right of the Kindle
    price of NZ$10.74c, https://www.amazon.com.au/Lafferty-Orbit-R-ebook/dp/B01DT74Q2I/
    Surely a misprint?

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  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to Titus G on Wed Mar 20 08:51:09 2024
    On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 16:56:44 +1300, Titus G <[email protected]> wrote:

    Snip
    On 20/03/24 09:15, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    As I recall, if you like the Lafferty shorts and not the novels,
    _Space Chantey_ may be sort of an in-between point, having been
    half of an Ace-Double.

    That is the novel I began, but didn't get very far through, after it was >suggested here a long time ago, perhaps by you?
    I have "Archipelago" to read and the opening chapters were as
    entertaining to begin as his short stories are.
    Many of his Kindle novels are only NZ$2 at Amazon Australia but I
    noticed this hard back for NZ$560.96c; just to the right of the Kindle
    price of NZ$10.74c, >https://www.amazon.com.au/Lafferty-Orbit-R-ebook/dp/B01DT74Q2I/
    Surely a misprint?

    [https://www.amazon.com/Lafferty-Orbit-R/dp/0962382485/ref=sr_1_1?crid=17NXFD7GG456L&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.tC5kXouiVgK-Nbx8Zjr4eRqw1KoWscOYSWoHYf5xpz7GjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.yqs5pdd8S_OWyf4tVaHjJ4pmq2Lildo04x2PWqntxuw&dib_tag=se&keywords=Lafferty+in+Orbit&qid=
    1710949594&s=digital-text&sprefix=lafferty+in+orbit%2Cdigital-text%2C120&sr=1-1-catcorr]
    has it for $1,045.53 in hardcover. Kindle or PB not available.

    Apparently, it is something of a collector's item.

    I saw slightly lower prices on Amazon Australia, but that could be
    because they are in (presumably) Australian dollars.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Mar 21 08:42:23 2024
    On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 16:24:24 -0400, William Hyde
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Titus G wrote:
    Snip
    On 20/03/24 09:15, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    As I recall, if you like the Lafferty shorts and not the novels,
    _Space Chantey_ may be sort of an in-between point, having been
    half of an Ace-Double.

    That is the novel I began, but didn't get very far through, after it was
    suggested here a long time ago, perhaps by you?
    I have "Archipelago" to read and the opening chapters were as
    entertaining to begin as his short stories are.
    Many of his Kindle novels are only NZ$2 at Amazon Australia but I
    noticed this hard back for NZ$560.96c; just to the right of the Kindle
    price of NZ$10.74c,
    https://www.amazon.com.au/Lafferty-Orbit-R-ebook/dp/B01DT74Q2I/
    Surely a misprint?

    This sort of thing does happen. For years, David Wishart's "The Lydian >Baker" was only available as a (cheaply produced) paperback for $360. My >second year statistical mechanics book, a $7 hardback, was on sale for
    $510, while Nathan Divinsky's "Rings and Radicals" (a mathematics book, >despite its title) was on sale for about a hundred times my purchase
    price - and someone on this group offered to buy it from me even so.

    After replacing my falling-to-pieces /Arabic Grammar/ (ISBN
    0-486-44129-6) (W. Wright) in 2004, I tried replacing the
    similarly-delapidated /An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek/ (CDF
    Moule), but the price was simply outrageous.

    And both were paperbacks, BTW.

    Even in the latter half of the 60s, the recommended pattern was: buy
    the book used from the book store before the course and sell it back
    afterwards -- in effect renting it for the course.

    The pursuit of scholarship is very expensive.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ahasuerus@21:1/5 to William Hyde on Fri Mar 22 13:54:35 2024
    On 3/21/2024 3:11 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Michael F. Stemper wrote:
    On 20/03/2024 15.24, William Hyde wrote:

      while Nathan Divinsky's "Rings and Radicals" (a mathematics book,
    despite its title)

    What else would it be? Chemistry?

     Clearly, a history of subversive political organizations!
    [snip]

    To quote _Never Say Never Again_ (1983):

    [Sean Connery:] I am to eliminate all free radicals

    [Pamela Salem, who died a month ago:] Oh... Do be careful.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Mar 24 01:06:28 2024
    On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 13:25:40 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 20/03/2024 15.24, William Hyde wrote:

    while Nathan Divinsky's "Rings and Radicals" (a mathematics book, despite its title)

    What else would it be? Chemistry?

    Having sat in Divinsky's second year calculus class (1974) that would
    surprise me...

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