• (tor dot com) Incompetence Is Inevitable

    From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 17 17:11:12 2024
    Incompetence Is Inevitable: Five Books That Illustrate the Peter Principle

    Five stories in which competence is tested by going beyond its limits.

    https://www.tor.com/2024/01/17/incompetence-is-inevitable-five-books-that-illustrate-the-peter-principle/

    This is among the last of my tor dot com posts. Next week, that tag
    becomes Reactor.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 18 00:32:51 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 4:14:41 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 1/17/2024 11:11 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Incompetence Is Inevitable: Five Books That Illustrate the Peter Principle >> >
    Five stories in which competence is tested by going beyond its limits.

    https://www.tor.com/2024/01/17/incompetence-is-inevitable-five-books-that-illustrate-the-peter-principle/

    This is among the last of my tor dot com posts. Next week, that tag
    becomes Reactor.
    Zero for five here.

    The Powers is his breakthrough novel. I must have read it five times.

    It may still be my favourite Powers.

    The Sheckley is great if you like Sheckley. I do, many do not.

    Somehow I missed everything by Chandler except a couple of decent short >stories.

    Plus side: lots of new to you material to read.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 18 00:57:09 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 4:14:41 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 1/17/2024 11:11 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Incompetence Is Inevitable: Five Books That Illustrate the Peter Principle >> >
    Five stories in which competence is tested by going beyond its limits.

    https://www.tor.com/2024/01/17/incompetence-is-inevitable-five-books-that-illustrate-the-peter-principle/

    This is among the last of my tor dot com posts. Next week, that tag
    becomes Reactor.
    Zero for five here.

    The Powers is his breakthrough novel. I must have read it five times.

    The Sheckley is great if you like Sheckley. I do, many do not.

    Somehow I missed everything by Chandler except a couple of decent short >stories.

    One could also mention the Reteif novels, in which everyone except Reteif has >been promoted beyond his or her level of competence. Often far beyond.

    William Hyde


    It depends on what they are being tested for. I recently ran across, the
    new to me, excellent phrase:

    "The purpose of a system is what it does" (POSIWID)

    Magnan et al are what the system does.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 18 18:53:55 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 7:57:14 PM UTC-5, Ted Nolan
    <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 4:14:41 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote: >> >> On 1/17/2024 11:11 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Incompetence Is Inevitable: Five Books That Illustrate the Peter >Principle

    Five stories in which competence is tested by going beyond its limits. >> >> >

    https://www.tor.com/2024/01/17/incompetence-is-inevitable-five-books-that-illustrate-the-peter-principle/

    This is among the last of my tor dot com posts. Next week, that tag
    becomes Reactor.
    Zero for five here.

    The Powers is his breakthrough novel. I must have read it five times.

    The Sheckley is great if you like Sheckley. I do, many do not.

    Somehow I missed everything by Chandler except a couple of decent short
    stories.

    One could also mention the Reteif novels, in which everyone except
    Reteif has
    been promoted beyond his or her level of competence. Often far beyond.

    William Hyde

    It depends on what they are being tested for. I recently ran across, the
    new to me, excellent phrase:

    "The purpose of a system is what it does" (POSIWID)

    Magnan et al are what the system does.

    Even at the start, though, Magnan seems to have a slightly better grasp
    on reality than the others. By the late books, he's well ahead of the >average diplomat in this area, doubtless from long exposure to Retief.
    Once in a while he even makes a decision without Reteif that does not
    turn out to be disastrous.

    Yes, Laumer seemed to be taking Magnan is a more interesting direction
    in the last books, but unfortunately they were so unreadable I
    couldn't really follow it.

    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to Nicoll on Mon Jan 22 22:22:41 2024
    On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 17:11:12 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    https://www.tor.com/2024/01/17/incompetence-is-inevitable-five-books-that-illustrate-the-peter-principle/

    From the comments:

    �Those who can, do. Those who can�t do, teach. Those who can�t teach
    go into administration.�


    In practice, those who are very good at doing make terrible teachers.
    They can't tell you how to do because they don't know.

    "How do I add two numbers?"
    "Look at them and write down the sum."


    --
    Joy Beeson
    joy beeson at centurylink dot net
    http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

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  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to Joy Beeson on Mon Jan 22 21:58:46 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Joy Beeson <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 17:11:12 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    https://www.tor.com/2024/01/17/incompetence-is-inevitable-five-books-that-il
    lustrate-the-peter-principle/

    From the comments:

    �Those who can, do. Those who can�t do, teach. Those who can�t teach
    go into administration.�


    In practice, those who are very good at doing make terrible teachers.
    They can't tell you how to do because they don't know.

    "How do I add two numbers?"
    "Look at them and write down the sum."

    You teach them the addition tables. I can't remember which elementary
    school grade introduced them,

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. �-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward [email protected]

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  • From Michael Ikeda@21:1/5 to Joy Beeson on Tue Jan 23 13:04:56 2024
    Joy Beeson <[email protected]d> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 17:11:12 -0000 (UTC), [email protected]
    (James Nicoll) wrote:

    https://www.tor.com/2024/01/17/incompetence-is-inevitable-five-b
    ooks-that-illustrate-the-peter-principle/

    From the comments:

    �Those who can, do. Those who can�t do, teach. Those who can�t
    teach go into administration.�


    In practice, those who are very good at doing make terrible
    teachers. They can't tell you how to do because they don't know.


    I'd say instead that teaching is a skill in itself and may not be
    strongly related to skill in what you're trying to teach.

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  • From D@21:1/5 to Michael Ikeda on Tue Jan 23 14:19:48 2024
    On Tue, 23 Jan 2024, Michael Ikeda wrote:

    Joy Beeson <[email protected]d> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 17:11:12 -0000 (UTC), [email protected]
    (James Nicoll) wrote:

    https://www.tor.com/2024/01/17/incompetence-is-inevitable-five-b
    ooks-that-illustrate-the-peter-principle/

    From the comments:

    ?Those who can, do. Those who can?t do, teach. Those who can?t
    teach go into administration.?


    In practice, those who are very good at doing make terrible
    teachers. They can't tell you how to do because they don't know.


    I'd say instead that teaching is a skill in itself and may not be
    strongly related to skill in what you're trying to teach.

    This is the way!

    Adding to that a pinch of temperament, empathy and patience, but those
    things can be improved with training.

    Best regards,
    Daniel

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  • From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 27 21:36:15 2024
    On Tue, 23 Jan 2024 13:04:56 GMT, Michael Ikeda <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    I'd say instead that teaching is a skill in itself and may not be
    strongly related to skill in what you're trying to teach.

    I'm currently teaching knitting. My answer to nearly every question
    is "Hang on while I watch myself doing it."

    I tried to learn library science once. My teacher was a world-famous librarian. His idea of teaching me to do research was to say "go out
    and do research."

    If he had been teaching swimming, he would have thrown me in at the
    deep end and then ridiculed me for drowning.


    --
    Joy Beeson
    joy beeson at centurylink dot net

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  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Feb 2 08:27:24 2024
    On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 13:46:17 +0000, Robert Carnegie
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 18/01/2024 00:57, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 4:14:41?PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote: >>>> On 1/17/2024 11:11 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Incompetence Is Inevitable: Five Books That Illustrate the Peter Principle

    Five stories in which competence is tested by going beyond its limits. >>>>>

    https://www.tor.com/2024/01/17/incompetence-is-inevitable-five-books-that-illustrate-the-peter-principle/

    This is among the last of my tor dot com posts. Next week, that tag
    becomes Reactor.
    Zero for five here.

    The Powers is his breakthrough novel. I must have read it five times.

    The Sheckley is great if you like Sheckley. I do, many do not.

    Somehow I missed everything by Chandler except a couple of decent short
    stories.

    One could also mention the Reteif novels, in which everyone except Reteif has
    been promoted beyond his or her level of competence. Often far beyond.

    William Hyde


    It depends on what they are being tested for. I recently ran across, the
    new to me, excellent phrase:

    "The purpose of a system is what it does" (POSIWID)

    Magnan et al are what the system does.

    Apparently, POSIWID arises from what's
    called "cybernetics", which apparently
    isn't about the threat of cyborgs but
    is a study of "circular causal systems".
    And if POSIWID is all there is to
    cybernetics, then the Wikipedia page
    is slightly too long.

    Apparently, referring to what the handbook
    says the thing is /supposed/ to do is
    forbidden to cyberneticists. So does
    POSIEID replace RTFM?

    Perhaps POSIEID is more a counsel of dispair concerning the gap
    between what the manual /says/ and what the system /does/.

    This discrepancy, of course, the same as that pointed to by
    The Map is not the Terrain
    which is something that tends to be overlooked.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 9 19:18:45 2024
    On Tue, 23 Jan 2024 13:04:56 GMT, Michael Ikeda <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    I'd say instead that teaching is a skill in itself and may not be
    strongly related to skill in what you're trying to teach.

    That was certainly my experience - after university I did the
    teacher's ed program and got my certificate but I simply wasn't
    organized enough to be a good teacher. The paperwork REALLY ground me
    down and by the end of my one and only year of teaching I had already
    done my GMAT and was planning for business school where I narrowly
    missed the Dean's list and met my future wife.

    (The joke was I got both my MBA and an MRS)

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