On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 10:00:04 -0800, Robert Woodward
<[email protected]> wrote:

In article <[email protected]>,
Paul S Person <[email protected]d> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:46:55 -0800, The Horny Goat <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 21:48:05 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

The state wedged in between California and Oregon must be Jefferson!=20 >> >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

Those fools should actually read history. Jefferson wasn't
in favor expanding to the west coast for one simple reason,
communications. It would take too long for a round trip
by horse or ship to make governing it effective on a national basis.
(almost exactly in his own words).

He didn't anticipate the telegraph, railroad, or modern
communications and transportation.

Ironically the last Russian governor of Alaska took up his posting
after a trip across the US - he went west across Europe, took a boat
from the Netherlands to Britain and another one to the US east coast,
train to San Francisco and steamer to where he landed (can't remember
whether it was Juneau or not)

The Trans-Siberian Railway hadn't been built yet, if I have the
relevant dates correct.

Trans-Siberian Railway wasn't even started until 1891. The US >Transcontinental railroad was formally completed on May 10, 1869. Alaska
was transferred to the USA on October 18, 1867. There is something wrong >with the above story about the last Russian governor of Alaska.

Judging from
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Petrovich_Maksutov>, it may be
completely bogus, since he "took up his post" when the former Governor
resigned and was already in Russian America.

At the very least, some clarification of exactly /when/ he made the
alleged Atlantic-to-Pacific trip is needed.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

[email protected] (Ted Nolan wrote:

In article <[email protected]>,
Robert Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:

Trans-Siberian Railway wasn't even started until 1891. The US

And the Trans-Siberian Orchestra took more than a hundred years more!

I was going to ask about that.


Brian

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 08:37:34 -0800, Paul S Person
<[email protected]d> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:46:55 -0800, The Horny Goat <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 21:48:05 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) >>wrote:

The state wedged in between California and Oregon must be Jefferson!=20 >>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

Those fools should actually read history. Jefferson wasn't
in favor expanding to the west coast for one simple reason, >>>communications. It would take too long for a round trip
by horse or ship to make governing it effective on a national basis. >>>(almost exactly in his own words).

He didn't anticipate the telegraph, railroad, or modern
communications and transportation.

Ironically the last Russian governor of Alaska took up his posting
after a trip across the US - he went west across Europe, took a boat
from the Netherlands to Britain and another one to the US east coast,
train to San Francisco and steamer to where he landed (can't remember >>whether it was Juneau or not)

The Trans-Siberian Railway hadn't been built yet, if I have the
relevant dates correct.

At least he didn't have to traverse Siberia by troika!

Or sail from St Petersburg around Cape Horn!

Naturally he was in Alaska all of two years before the Tsar sold it to
the US.....

Google says "It was built concurrently in three stretches. The first
stretch was the West Siberian Railroad from Chelyabinsk to the Ob
River, completed in 1896. The second stretch, the Central Siberian
Railroad, was from the Ob River to Irkutsk on the western shore of
Lake Baikal; it was completed in 1899."

Now it's over 2000 km from Lake Baikal (not sure if this is from the
west shore or the east shore) to Vladivostok so it would take awhile
to complete the third and last stage of the Trans-Siberian so I think
you can take it for granted that the Trans-Siberian wasn't built
before Alaska was sold.

Now Canadians would tend to argue that the US purchase of Alaska was
the THIRD most important world event in 1867 behind the creation of
Canada as an independent country and the foundation of Austria-Hungary
but as they say "your mileage might vary"!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 20:13:10 -0800, The Horny Goat <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 08:37:34 -0800, Paul S Person ><[email protected]d> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:46:55 -0800, The Horny Goat <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 21:48:05 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) >>>wrote:

The state wedged in between California and Oregon must be Jefferson!=20 >>>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

Those fools should actually read history. Jefferson wasn't
in favor expanding to the west coast for one simple reason, >>>>communications. It would take too long for a round trip
by horse or ship to make governing it effective on a national basis. >>>>(almost exactly in his own words).

He didn't anticipate the telegraph, railroad, or modern
communications and transportation.

Ironically the last Russian governor of Alaska took up his posting
after a trip across the US - he went west across Europe, took a boat
from the Netherlands to Britain and another one to the US east coast, >>>train to San Francisco and steamer to where he landed (can't remember >>>whether it was Juneau or not)

The Trans-Siberian Railway hadn't been built yet, if I have the
relevant dates correct.

At least he didn't have to traverse Siberia by troika!

Or sail from St Petersburg around Cape Horn!

Naturally he was in Alaska all of two years before the Tsar sold it to >>>the US.....

Google says "It was built concurrently in three stretches. The first
stretch was the West Siberian Railroad from Chelyabinsk to the Ob
River, completed in 1896. The second stretch, the Central Siberian
Railroad, was from the Ob River to Irkutsk on the western shore of
Lake Baikal; it was completed in 1899."

Now it's over 2000 km from Lake Baikal (not sure if this is from the
west shore or the east shore) to Vladivostok so it would take awhile
to complete the third and last stage of the Trans-Siberian so I think
you can take it for granted that the Trans-Siberian wasn't built
before Alaska was sold.

IIRC, for a while at least, you had to cross Lake Baikal either by
boat (if not frozen) or by sledge (if frozen) to get from one terminus
to the other. What the situation is now I have no idea.

Now Canadians would tend to argue that the US purchase of Alaska was
the THIRD most important world event in 1867 behind the creation of
Canada as an independent country and the foundation of Austria-Hungary
but as they say "your mileage might vary"!

--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 08:46:40 -0800, Paul S Person
<[email protected]d> wrote:

IIRC, for a while at least, you had to cross Lake Baikal either by
boat (if not frozen) or by sledge (if frozen) to get from one terminus
to the other. What the situation is now I have no idea.

A quick Google search says
"The construction of these sections was carried out chiefly by the
inmates and hard labourers of the Aleksandrovsky prison. Workers began construction on the most complex section, from Slyudyanka to the
Baikal station, only in the spring of 1902, with the aim of finishing
it by 1905." (the station was at the southern tip of the lake)

which would be no surprise to me since Japan was starting to flex
their muscles near Siberia around that time. Obviously in 1902 they
didn't expect to be at war with Japan in 1905 but clearly saw it as an
eventual possibility.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)