• Re: My Father's House / George J. Dance

    From George J. Dance@21:1/5 to Zod on Sat Nov 26 18:48:39 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    On 2022-11-26 4:02 p.m., Zod wrote:
    On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!

    Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
    but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

    The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
    one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the
    speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
    is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
    over a decade makes that much clearer.

    As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
    plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the
    house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
    It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
    was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
    but I wanted to keep that hidden.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W-Dockery@21:1/5 to George J. Dance on Sun Nov 27 01:58:10 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    George J. Dance wrote:

    On 2022-11-26 4:02 p.m., Zod wrote:
    On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!

    Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
    but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

    The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
    one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
    is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
    over a decade makes that much clearer.

    As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
    plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
    It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
    was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
    but I wanted to keep that hidden.


    I remember what must have been early versions of this poem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W-Dockery@21:1/5 to George J. Dance on Mon Nov 28 01:28:57 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    George J. Dance wrote:

    On 2022-11-26 4:02 p.m., Zod wrote:
    On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!

    Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
    but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

    The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
    one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
    is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
    over a decade makes that much clearer.

    As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
    plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
    It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
    was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
    but I wanted to keep that hidden.



    It reminds me of a scene from Boardwalk Empire:

    https://youtu.be/m_VG3je3U-M

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W.Dockery@21:1/5 to George J. Dance on Sat Dec 3 12:02:24 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    George J. Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Again, excellent poetry, as all apparently agree.

    🙂

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From General-Zod@21:1/5 to Will Dockery on Sat Dec 3 20:16:07 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:

    Robert Burrows wrote:

    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:48:08 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
    George J. Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Again, excellent poetry, as all apparently agree.


    It's pathological, not poetic.

    In your opinion, you mean.


    Exactly, opinions, that's all any of us have, as poetry, like art, is subjective....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W-Dockery@21:1/5 to Dennis Rowan on Sat Dec 3 20:43:44 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Dennis Rowan wrote:

    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 3:26:52 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:41:33 PM UTC-5, Dennis Rowan wrote:
    George J. Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    I like George's poem.
    It's a sad poem but bold and unaffected.
    I read it again.
    Keep it up, George.
    Agre

    Sounds like

    Not at all, Zod was just extending a friendly welcome.

    :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W.Dockery@21:1/5 to Robert Burrows on Sat Dec 3 19:30:21 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Robert Burrows wrote:

    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:48:08 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
    George J. Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Again, excellent poetry, as all apparently agree.


    It's pathological, not poetic.

    In your opinion, you mean.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From General-Zod@21:1/5 to George J. Dance on Sat Dec 3 22:33:57 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    George J. Dance wrote:

    On 2022-12-03 2:41 p.m., Dennis Rowan wrote:
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:15:49 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote: >>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:48:08 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
    George J. Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Again, excellent poetry, as all apparently agree.

    It's pathological, not poetic.

    I like George's poem.
    It's a sad poem but bold and unaffected.
    I read it again.
    Keep it up, George.

    Thank you for reading and for commenting, Dennis; and let me welcome you
    to appc, too.

    I don't like a lot of confessional poetry, but there are some that are
    done well (many of Plath's, eg) that I've enjoyed; and this poem is to
    some degree confessional, as the speaker's roughly based on me in my
    much younger days. But it's not really confessional, but a dramatic monologue; the speaker's not me, and I've modified facts (leaving out
    some, exaggerating others) for the sake of the goal, to give the reader
    a look into the mind of the speaker.

    I am really glad that you liked it, and even more so that you liked it
    that much, enough to write and tell me.


    Well put, G.D....!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From General-Zod@21:1/5 to Spam-I-Am on Sat Dec 3 21:19:38 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Spam-I-Am wrote:

    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 4:08:04 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 4:06:03 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
    On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:41:33 PM UTC-5, Dennis Rowan wrote: >> > > > > > > George J. Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    I like George's poem.
    It's a sad poem but bold and unaffected.
    I read it again.
    Keep it up, George.
    Wtf is “sad but bold and unaffected” supposed to mean? Sounds like bullshit to me.
    Sounds like a good review to me....
    Okay. Good for you.
    Hi there Corey....!!

    Go team.

    Buffalo Bills....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVNULUu4xrs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From General-Zod@21:1/5 to Will Dockery on Wed Dec 7 22:53:04 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:

    On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 4:00:14 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
    Michael Pendragon wrote:
    George J. Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx trolling snipped xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Where I grew up, a 13-14-year old who was regularly drinking, getting high, and banging other children would have been thought of as trash

    Yet you seem to have no problem with grown men such as Edgar Allan Poe and Jerry Lee Lewis having sex, and marrying, 13-year-old girls....

    http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/05/26-year-old-edgar-allan-poe-married-13-year-old-cousin/

    ********* As if his stories weren’t occasionally disturbing enough, it turns out Edgar Allan Poe’s love life was more than a little creepy as well. *****************

    ********** Poe met his bride-to-be, Virginia Clemm, when she was 7 years old, and he was 20 *******

    “Poe secretly married Virginia . . . on September 22, 1835. He was 26 and she was 13, though she is listed on the marriage certificate as being 21.”

    Jerry Lee Lewis, a very similar tale....

    Yet Pendragon appears to accept and condone this, while hypocritically attacking young Doc, himself just a boy at the time, not a grown man of 26 like Poe was....

    Pendragon is a hypocritical troll, what else would you expect?

    That is one thing that never seems to change here....!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W-Dockery@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 9 19:32:59 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    I'm sure George Dance hasn't run away, Pendragon, but, again, I'll let George speak for himself.

    As for Edgar Allan Poe, it seems to be a historical fact that he was an alcoholic, was suspected of being a drug addict who married his thirteen year old cousin.

    Are you trying to deny these historical facts about Edgar Allan Poe, Pendragon?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W-Dockery@21:1/5 to George J. Dance on Wed Dec 14 11:27:16 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    George J. Dance wrote:

    Zod wrote:
    George Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!

    Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
    but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

    The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
    one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
    is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
    over a decade makes that much clearer.

    As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
    plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
    It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
    was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
    but I wanted to keep that hidden.

    Well put, and getting this thread back on topic.

    🙂

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From General-Zod@21:1/5 to Will Dockery on Wed Dec 14 15:41:14 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:

    George J. Dance wrote:

    Zod wrote:
    George Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!

    Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
    but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

    The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
    one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her
    complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the
    speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
    is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
    over a decade makes that much clearer.

    As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
    plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the
    house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
    It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
    was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
    but I wanted to keep that hidden.

    Well put, and getting this thread back on topic.

    🙂


    Agreed and seconded....!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W.Dockery@21:1/5 to George Dance on Fri Dec 30 13:43:43 2022
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    On Friday, December 30, 2022 at 6:00:13 AM UTC-5, George Dance wrote:

    I see I left out the most important point.


    <snip>
    -- Michael Pendragon, "Hicksville," from A Year of Sundays, July 2020.
    If you'd like to compare your poem to one of Eliot's, then doing so

    **by opening a new thread**.

    would probably get you more attention. Even if not: Do not hijack other people's poetry threads to promote your own. That's the kind of shit I'd expect from a relative newbie like the Ashtroll, but I'd hoped that you'd know better.

    Yes, Pendragon was spamming that every time I mentioned what a delusional fuckwit he appears when he posts that he's a better poet than T.S. Eliot.

    As his comparison shows, even a lesser T.S. Eliot poem is still 1,000 better than a Michael Pendragon poem.

    🙂

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From George J. Dance@21:1/5 to General-Zod on Wed Feb 15 06:45:58 2023
    On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:45:14 AM UTC-5, General-Zod wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    George J. Dance wrote:

    Zod wrote:
    George Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!

    Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly, >> but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

    The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion, >> one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her >> complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the >> speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht >> is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for >> over a decade makes that much clearer.

    As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
    plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the >> house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
    It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
    was under psychiatric care, and "they" were the ones looking after him, >> but I wanted to keep that hidden.

    Well put, and getting this thread back on topic.

    🙂
    Agreed and seconded....!

    I didn't even realize this thread was here. I think it's from the "Mt Father's House" thread that I don't want to revive. But I have been thinking, and probably will end up posting, more about it as a result of the multiple threads on aapc; and it occurs
    to me this would be a better place to put those posts than any on that group. So I'll bump this, just to keep the thread alive.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From General-Zod@21:1/5 to George J. Dance on Wed Mar 8 20:56:08 2023
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    George J. Dance wrote:

    On 2023-2-26 4:02 p.m., Zod wrote:
    [email protected] wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!

    Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
    but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

    The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
    one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
    is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
    over a decade makes that much clearer.

    As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
    plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
    It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
    was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
    but I wanted to keep that hidden.


    You should be proud, the poem is a stone cold classic...!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W-Dockery@21:1/5 to George J. Dance on Sat Mar 11 20:57:42 2023
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    George J. Dance wrote:

    On 2022-11-26 4:02 p.m., Zod wrote:
    On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 3:49:07 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!

    Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
    but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

    The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
    one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
    is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
    over a decade makes that much clearer.

    As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
    plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
    It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
    was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
    but I wanted to keep that hidden.



    Well put, George.

    :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From General-Zod@21:1/5 to George J. Dance on Tue Mar 14 21:23:12 2023
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    George J. Dance wrote:

    On 2022-11-26 4:02 p.m., Zod wrote:
    [email protected] wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Read twice, outstanding work of poetry....!

    Thanks, Zod. It's a poem I'm proud of. I wrote the first draft quickly,
    but I spent several years tweaking it before it went into a book.

    The big revision here is the rewrite to L2. In the original discussion,
    one of the people trying to cut it to shreds was a poet, and amongst her complaints she had a criticism I thought valid: it's not clear that the speaker is the child of the poem now grown up. And I think realizing tht
    is essential to appreciating the thing. Having the father been dead for
    over a decade makes that much clearer.

    As well, it makes certain things more ambiguous, and I think that's a
    plus as well. By taking out the old L2, it's no longer clear whether the house this guy is walking around in is abandoned, or still lived in.
    It's also unclear who "they" are; my hidden idea was that the speaker
    was under psychiatric care, ant "they" were the ones looking after him,
    but I wanted to keep that hidden.


    Hello again G.D....!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From George J. Dance@21:1/5 to W.Dockery on Fri Feb 7 15:07:10 2025
    XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    On Tue, 4 Feb 2025 11:29:25 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:

    George J. Dance wrote:

    My Father's House

    This is my father's house, although
    The man died thirteen years ago.
    They said it would be quite all right
    To take a drive to see it now.

    Dad laid those grey foundation blocks
    And built the whole thing (from a box),
    Toiling after each full day's work.
    I helped, though I was only six.

    Look, here's the back door I would use
    And here's where I'd remove my shoes
    To enter; there I'd leave my things
    And, when allowed, climb up these stairs.

    In this room I'd wash many a dish,
    Gaze out this window, and I'd wish
    To be so many other places.
    (Wishy-washy? Oh, I guess!)

    Outside, the garden that he grew
    Where I would work the summers through,
    While watching my friends run and play
    Mysterious games I never knew.

    That room's all changed; oh, where is it,
    The one chair I was let to sit?
    (For boys can be such filthy things.)
    Which, the corner where boys were put?

    Oh ... down that hall there is a room
    Where I'd be shut (as in a tomb)
    After the meal, to make no noise,
    To read or play alone, and then

    Lights out: in bed by nine each night,
    Some nights wanting to pee with fright,
    Face and pyjama bottoms down
    As for my father's belt I'd wait.

    Oh, if I were a millionaire
    I'd buy my father's house, and there
    I'd build a bonfire, oh so high
    Its flames would light up all the air.

    ~~
    George J. Dance
    from Logos and other logoi, 2021

    Here it is, MFH.

    Thank you for reposting this poem of mine, Will. While it's true that it
    has been discussed a lot over the years, it also true that at least one
    person wants to discuss it now; and this would be the appropriate place
    to move those comments, rather than leaving them scattered all over the
    group. So let's start with this one:

    On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 16:15:27 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain (MPP) aka "HarryLime" wrote:
    On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 13:06:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
    Why do you lie so much, George?
    (That's a rhetorical question, as you've already intimated that your
    pathological lying stems from you having been abused as a child.)

    No, Lying Michael: I have never said, or even "intimated" (!) that I was
    pathological, lying, or
    "abused as a child".

    You wrote a "mostly autobiographical" poem detailing the abuses you
    suffered as a child, George. And you're demonstrating your pathological obsession with lying in your trio of denials, listed above.
    https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article.php?id=15801&group=rec.arts.poems

    HarryLiar has manufactured yet another fake quote; I have never called
    this poem "mostly autobiographical" or autobiographical in many ways. I
    have distinctly told him in the past that, while some of the speaker's
    memories were based on my own childhood experiences, not all of them
    were; I was using them in a work of creative fiction, not an
    autobiography of any kind. So he lied and made up a fake quote to
    support his lie.

    The poem is meant to be a dramatic monolgue, in the style of Browning
    (His "My Last Duchess" is a good example), meant to get inside the
    psychology of a speaker or persona. The speaker may have experienced
    his childhood as "abuse" - HarryLiar calls it that but the speaker
    doesn't. The memories of it, though, have stayed on his mind, and he
    wants to get rid of those memories (symbolized by burning down the house
    at the end).

    It's deliberately left to the reader to decide if the speaker actually
    had been abused by his father or not. I did structure it, for effect,
    from the least to the most abusive-seeming experiences; from having to
    use a back door and remove his shoes to enter the house, to doing
    household chores, to doing garden work in the summertime, to not being
    allowed to use some of the furniture, to having to stay inside alone at
    night and be in bed early, to being subjected to corporal punishment.
    Adding them together like that, it's easy enough to conclude that the
    father had been abusive; but I'll point out that all of those events
    were things children commonly experienced 50-60 years ago, and that none
    of them were commonly considered abusive.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)