• BBC sends cops to arrest nonviewer for refusing to pay the licensing fe

    From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 31 21:02:53 2025
    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given
    to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have
    it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC
    receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A
    man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC
    program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license
    enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look
    for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let
    in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    You cannot stand up for your rights in the UK, what few remain.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XowfxO_-eYA

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Sat May 31 19:52:31 2025
    On 2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given
    to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have
    it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to
    thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election
    campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A
    man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not
    the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but
    apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc.
    you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know
    that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC
    program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have
    trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are
    receiving a TV signal. Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license
    enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look
    for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let
    in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    You cannot stand up for your rights in the UK, what few remain.
    Sure you can. You just have to cough up staggering sums of money to take
    them to court via a lawsuit.

    That's what really ought to be done. There should be a class action
    against the licensing authority launched by all those who don't watch
    live TV or use services based on live TV who are being hassled by the
    police on behalf of the licensing body. The intent should be to get some compensation for the harassment but also to establish a clear and fair
    way so that you can opt out of the license fee and they have some fair
    and preferably non-intrusive way to spot check occasionally to ensure
    you aren't cheating (or, ideally, just prevent you from getting a live
    signal at all so they KNOW you aren't cheating.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XowfxO_-eYA


    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 1 02:01:31 2025
    On May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, "Rhino" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given
    to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have
    it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC
    receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to
    thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election
    campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A
    man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not
    the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc.
    you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know
    that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC
    program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have
    trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular data or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?

    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license
    enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look
    for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let
    in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to this property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" would do
    the trick.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jun 1 02:35:29 2025
    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>: >>2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given
    to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have
    it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic >>>spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC >>>receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to >>thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election >>campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A >>>man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not
    the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but >>apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc.
    you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know >>that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC >>>program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have >>trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are >>receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular data >or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?

    If it's live streaming, then the license fee applies. Recorded videos, I wouldn't think so.

    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was >>presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license >>>enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look >>>for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let >>>in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to this >property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" would do >the trick.

    If they have a suspicion -- whether reasonable or not -- that a receiver subject to licensing is on the premisis, then implied consent cannot be revoked. That's why the guy wrote the letter. They continued to harass
    him. They desperately need an equivalent of the Bill of Rights in a
    written constitution.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Sun Jun 1 03:18:01 2025
    On May 31, 2025 at 7:35:29 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <[email protected]> wrote:

    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>:
    2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given >>>> to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have >>>> it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC >>>> receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to
    thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election
    campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A >>>> man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not
    the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but
    apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc.
    you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know
    that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC
    program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have
    trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are
    receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular
    data
    or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?

    If it's live streaming, then the license fee applies. Recorded videos, I wouldn't think so.

    So if you're watching Mizzy break into people's homes and terrorize them live, you need a license, but if you wait ten minutes until the stream ends and
    watch it back, you don't?

    What a fucked up way to run a country.


    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was
    presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license
    enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look >>>> for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let >>>> in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to this
    property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" would do >> the trick.

    If they have a suspicion -- whether reasonable or not -- that a receiver subject to licensing is on the premisis, then implied consent cannot be revoked.

    Then it's not consent at all. If it can't be revoked, then by definition, it's not consent, implied or otherwise.

    That's why the guy wrote the letter. They continued to harass
    him. They desperately need an equivalent of the Bill of Rights in a
    written constitution.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jun 1 04:58:15 2025
    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 7:35:29 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <[email protected]> wrote: >>BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>: >>>>2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given >>>>>to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have >>>>>it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee >>>>>for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic >>>>>spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC >>>>>receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a >>>>year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to >>>>thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election >>>>campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A >>>>>man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to >>>>>the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not >>>>the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but >>>>apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as >>>>well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you >>>>don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc. >>>>you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know >>>>that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be >>>>exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC >>>>>program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't >>>>>prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being >>>>>broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have >>>>trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are >>>>receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular >>>data or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?

    If it's live streaming, then the license fee applies. Recorded videos, I >>wouldn't think so.

    So if you're watching Mizzy break into people's homes and terrorize them live, >you need a license, but if you wait ten minutes until the stream ends and >watch it back, you don't?

    What a fucked up way to run a country.

    How about you can't buy or build your own receiver to receive a natural phenomenon without owing the fee, which costs about a month's worth of
    wages?

    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was >>>>presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license >>>>>enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look >>>>>for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let >>>>>in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to >>>this property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" >>>would do the trick.

    If they have a suspicion -- whether reasonable or not -- that a receiver >>subject to licensing is on the premisis, then implied consent cannot be >>revoked.

    Then it's not consent at all. If it can't be revoked, then by definition, it's >not consent, implied or otherwise.

    It's moviePig law.

    That's why the guy wrote the letter. They continued to harass
    him. They desperately need an equivalent of the Bill of Rights in a
    written constitution.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Sun Jun 1 09:44:28 2025
    On 2025-05-31 10:35 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>:
    2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given >>>> to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have >>>> it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC >>>> receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to
    thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election
    campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A >>>> man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not
    the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but
    apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc.
    you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know
    that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC
    program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have
    trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are
    receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular data
    or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?

    If it's live streaming, then the license fee applies. Recorded videos, I wouldn't think so.

    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was
    presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license
    enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look >>>> for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let >>>> in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to this
    property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" would do >> the trick.

    If they have a suspicion -- whether reasonable or not -- that a receiver subject to licensing is on the premisis, then implied consent cannot be revoked. That's why the guy wrote the letter. They continued to harass
    him. They desperately need an equivalent of the Bill of Rights in a
    written constitution.

    I'm not clear to me how the TV signal is delivered in the UK. Is it over
    the air, via cable, via satellite, via cell towers or some other method?

    In any case, it seems to me that they need to take the same approach
    they take to other utilities: if you fail to pay for what you use, they
    cut off the supply of the service. If you don't pay your water bill,
    they can turn off the water. Therefore, if you don't pay your license
    fee, cut off the supply of TV to your house or apartment.

    By analogy with water, you can still use your sink or bathtub if your
    water is cut off, you just have to come up with your own water, via
    jugs, a backyard well or whatever. By the same token, you're not getting
    live TV in the house any more if you've had your TV feed shut off but
    you can still watch DVDs or other pre-recorded media.

    That approach should solve the problem nicely WITHOUT the police needing
    to be involved at all unless perhaps you somehow interfere with the guy
    turning off the TV feed to your house or you pirate the feed somehow by
    tapping into the neighbour's feed.


    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to Rhino on Sun Jun 1 13:59:57 2025
    Rhino <[email protected]> wrote:

    . . .

    I'm not clear to me how the TV signal is delivered in the UK. Is it over
    the air, via cable, via satellite, via cell towers or some other method?

    It's broadcast over the air. There are also apps for streaming a live
    signal. I assume there's also a satellite uplink/downlink to big dish,
    then cable distribution too, but I don't know how many subscribe. They've
    got some small-dish satellite too.

    Receive a signal via any method that is live, then the license fee is
    owed.

    In any case, it seems to me that they need to take the same approach
    they take to other utilities: if you fail to pay for what you use, they
    cut off the supply of the service. If you don't pay your water bill,
    they can turn off the water. Therefore, if you don't pay your license
    fee, cut off the supply of TV to your house or apartment.

    This isn't comparable to a public utility. If you receive any live tv,
    like the broadcast of a commercial station, never watching a BBC
    channel, you owe the license fee. It is not related to watching BBC
    channels.

    By analogy with water, you can still use your sink or bathtub if your
    water is cut off, you just have to come up with your own water, via
    jugs, a backyard well or whatever. By the same token, you're not getting
    live TV in the house any more if you've had your TV feed shut off but
    you can still watch DVDs or other pre-recorded media.

    That approach should solve the problem nicely WITHOUT the police needing
    to be involved at all unless perhaps you somehow interfere with the guy >turning off the TV feed to your house or you pirate the feed somehow by >tapping into the neighbour's feed.

    How do you cut off broadcast signal?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 1 18:47:38 2025
    On Jun 1, 2025 at 6:44:28 AM PDT, "Rhino" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-05-31 10:35 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>: >>>> 2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given >>>>> to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have >>>>> it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee >>>>> for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC >>>>> receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to >>>> thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election
    campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A >>>>> man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to >>>>> the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not >>>> the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but
    apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as >>>> well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you >>>> don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc. >>>> you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know >>>> that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior. >>
    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC >>>>> program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't >>>>> prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have >>>> trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are >>>> receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular >>> data
    or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?

    If it's live streaming, then the license fee applies. Recorded videos, I
    wouldn't think so.

    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was >>>> presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license
    enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look >>>>> for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let >>>>> in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access. >>
    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to >>> this
    property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" would do
    the trick.

    If they have a suspicion -- whether reasonable or not -- that a receiver
    subject to licensing is on the premisis, then implied consent cannot be
    revoked. That's why the guy wrote the letter. They continued to harass
    him. They desperately need an equivalent of the Bill of Rights in a
    written constitution.

    I'm not clear to me how the TV signal is delivered in the UK. Is it over
    the air, via cable, via satellite, via cell towers or some other method?

    In any case, it seems to me that they need to take the same approach
    they take to other utilities: if you fail to pay for what you use, they
    cut off the supply of the service. If you don't pay your water bill,
    they can turn off the water. Therefore, if you don't pay your license
    fee, cut off the supply of TV to your house or apartment.

    Again, if you're using cellular data to watch TV, how can they do that? They can't sit outside your house with a detector and determine which of the data packets your iPad is receiving are video signals versus which are texts and which are emails and which are websites loading. Same with wifi. And even if they could, many (if not most) of those data packets are encrypted until they reach your device and are unencrypted by it.

    By analogy with water, you can still use your sink or bathtub if your
    water is cut off, you just have to come up with your own water, via
    jugs, a backyard well or whatever. By the same token, you're not getting
    live TV in the house any more if you've had your TV feed shut off but
    you can still watch DVDs or other pre-recorded media.

    That approach should solve the problem nicely WITHOUT the police needing
    to be involved at all unless perhaps you somehow interfere with the guy turning off the TV feed to your house or you pirate the feed somehow by tapping into the neighbour's feed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From anim8rfsk@21:1/5 to Rhino on Sun Jun 1 20:49:12 2025
    Rhino <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given
    to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have
    it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC
    receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to
    thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election
    campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A
    man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not
    the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc.
    you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know
    that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC
    program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have
    trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are receiving a TV signal.

    They do, but the antennas are bogus. They don’t do anything. They’re like phony security cameras that aren’t hooked up to anything.


    --
    The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jul 11 04:02:28 2025
    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>: >>2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given
    to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have
    it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic >>>spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC >>>receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to >>thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election >>campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A >>>man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not
    the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but >>apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc.
    you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know >>that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC >>>program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have >>trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are >>receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular data >or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?

    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was >>presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license >>>enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look >>>for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let >>>in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to this >property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" would do >the trick.

    Hey! Someone took your advice!

    They set a trap for tv licensing!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o46BHr19Dw

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Fri Jul 11 09:44:51 2025
    On 2025-07-11 12:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>:
    2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given >>>> to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have >>>> it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC >>>> receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to
    thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election
    campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A >>>> man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not
    the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but
    apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc.
    you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know
    that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC
    program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have
    trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are
    receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular data
    or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?

    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was
    presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license
    enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look >>>> for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let >>>> in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to this
    property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" would do >> the trick.

    Hey! Someone took your advice!

    They set a trap for tv licensing!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o46BHr19Dw

    Unfortunately, the lawyer doesn't mention any reaction from the
    licensing people to the trap that was sprung on them by the homeowner.
    It would be very interesting to see how the authorities responded if,
    say, the homeowner sued the licensing body for trespass or interference
    with the mail. Ultimately, this might force the entire license fee to be revisited and some other way devised to fund TV production.

    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Fri Jul 11 11:57:52 2025
    On 2025-07-11 12:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>:
    2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given >>>> to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have >>>> it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee
    for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC >>>> receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to
    thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election
    campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A >>>> man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to
    the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not
    the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but
    apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc.
    you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know
    that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior.

    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC
    program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have
    trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are
    receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular data
    or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?
    ft
    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was
    presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license
    enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look >>>> for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let >>>> in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access.

    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to this
    property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" would do >> the trick.

    Hey! Someone took your advice!

    They set a trap for tv licensing!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o46BHr19Dw

    After I sent my first reply to this, I noticed that another video on
    this topic was visible in my YouTube recommendations so I just watched
    it. I think you'll find this interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C58OR8XBAPs [11 minutes]

    The presenter argues that revoking permission for the licensing people
    to come to your door is NOT effective and can even be
    counter-productive. He also points to a case of someone who won a case
    around his refusal to pay the licence fee. He gives rather different
    advice than the Black Belt Barrister and swears by it; however this guy
    is apparently NOT a lawyer so the reliability of his advice is open to question.

    [Not that lawyers' advice is always reliable as I know from indirect experience. Back in my university days, I lived in a student housing
    co-op and we had ongoing legal issues with regards to hosting pubs where alcohol was served. At one point, the General Manager consulted a lawyer
    to see if there was any way we could legally hold a pub without risking anyone's arrest. The lawyer thought about it and advised the GM how to
    go about it. As an afterthought, the GM asked if he could have this
    advice in writing so that he could show it to the Board of Directors.
    Much to his surprise, the lawyer's written advice completely
    contradicted his verbal advice: his letter said there was no way we
    could host a pub legally and we shouldn't even try!]

    In any case, I was surprised to hear this presenter's allegations that
    the people who are working for the licencing body get a commission which actually incentivizes them financially to go after people who don't pay
    the licence fee and even lie through their teeth about what happened
    when they were let into people's homes.


    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From anim8rfsk@21:1/5 to Rhino on Fri Jul 11 10:15:32 2025
    Rhino <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025-07-11 12:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>: >>>> 2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Americans who complain about the inconsequentially small subsidy given >>>>> to public television and radio licensees have no idea how good we have >>>>> it in this country. In the UK, there's been a mandatory licensing fee >>>>> for receiving radio and television via the natural electromagnetic
    spectrum and expanded to receiving a signal via other methods. The BBC >>>>> receives a phenomenal public subsidy of close to lb 4 billion.

    And I thought our CBC got an obscene amount of money ($1.5 billion a
    year under Trudeau, increased by $150 million under Carney, probably to >>>> thank them for their enthusiastic coverage of his recent election
    campaign.)

    It's very difficult to avoid being not subject to the licensing fee. A >>>>> man chose not to watch tv and informed BBC that he was not subject to >>>>> the licensing fee.

    The video was educational for me. I knew about the license fee but not >>>> the precise terms. I always thought it was only for BBC channels but
    apparently it's for the commercial channels like ITV and Channel 4 as
    well. BUT you don't have to pay it if you don't watch live TV and you
    don't use any services like iPlayer to view programming on a delay.

    That means if you use your TV simply to watch DVDs, BluRays, VHS, etc. >>>> you don't need to pay the license fee. But it's not clear how they know >>>> that you're not watching live TV or if you have to notify them to be
    exempt from the fee.

    BBC sent the police to arrest him. Not watching tv is criminal behavior. >>
    They had videod him looking at a video with a still taken from a BBC >>>>> program that the man found on the Internet. They obviously couldn't
    prove this was live tv (in fact they knew that it wasn't being
    broadcast) and the judge threw the criminal case out.

    But that meant they had to peep through his windows, trespassing.

    I'm not so sure about that. I was under the impression that they have
    trucks with direction finders or something similar to tell if you are
    receiving a TV signal.

    That wouldn't work for people with smart phones or tablets using cellular data
    or wifi to watch Netflix or the Prime.

    And is YouTube considered something you need a license for?

    Something along the lines of the vans they used
    during WWII to see if someone was operating a radio transmitter and was >>>> presumably a foreign spy.

    I've seen videos in which UK barristers explain that BBC license
    enforcement has an implied right of access to enter the premisis to look >>>>> for contraband unlicensed radio and tv receivers.

    The man was sick of the nasty letters and pounding on the door to be let >>>>> in, so he wrote to BBC in order to withdraw the implied right of access. >>
    Seems like simply posting a sign saying "All implied rights of access to this
    property are expressly revoked and trespassers will be prosecuted" would do >>> the trick.

    Hey! Someone took your advice!

    They set a trap for tv licensing!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o46BHr19Dw

    Unfortunately, the lawyer doesn't mention any reaction from the
    licensing people to the trap that was sprung on them by the homeowner.
    It would be very interesting to see how the authorities responded if,
    say, the homeowner sued the licensing body for trespass or interference
    with the mail. Ultimately, this might force the entire license fee to be revisited and some other way devised to fund TV production.


    Maybe the BBC is who was stealing my ballots back when I was still allowed
    to vote.

    --
    The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to Rhino on Fri Jul 11 21:05:39 2025
    Rhino <[email protected]> wrote:
    2025-07-11 12:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:
    May 31, 2025 at 4:52:31 PM PDT, Rhino <[email protected]>: >>>>2025-05-31 5:02 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    . . .

    After I sent my first reply to this, I noticed that another video on
    this topic was visible in my YouTube recommendations so I just watched
    it. I think you'll find this interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C58OR8XBAPs [11 minutes]

    The presenter argues that revoking permission for the licensing people
    to come to your door is NOT effective and can even be
    counter-productive.

    You misunderstood. He's talking about sending the form to tv licensing
    stating "no license required" merely confirms the name of the resident
    at that residence. He made no comment about revoking the common law
    implied right of access.

    He also points to a case of someone who won a case
    around his refusal to pay the licence fee.

    Those single justice procedures are simply kangaroo court, that the
    accused is actively discouraged from defending himself because he's
    subject to a higher fine if he seeks a hearing, plus attorney's fees. In
    the United States, paying the other side's attorney's fees in a civil
    procedure is rare and I've never heard of it for an administrative
    hearing.

    But the problem was that the inspector filed a false statement to drag
    the resident into court. There were no penalties for the false
    statement.

    . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Fri Jul 11 21:39:10 2025
    Adam H. Kerman <[email protected]> wrote:
    Rhino <[email protected]> wrote:

    . . .

    After I sent my first reply to this, I noticed that another video on
    this topic was visible in my YouTube recommendations so I just watched
    it. I think you'll find this interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C58OR8XBAPs [11 minutes]

    The presenter argues that revoking permission for the licensing people
    to come to your door is NOT effective and can even be
    counter-productive.

    You misunderstood. He's talking about sending the form to tv licensing >stating "no license required" merely confirms the name of the resident
    at that residence. He made no comment about revoking the common law
    implied right of access.

    He also points to a case of someone who won a case
    around his refusal to pay the licence fee.

    Those single justice procedures are simply kangaroo court, that the
    accused is actively discouraged from defending himself because he's
    subject to a higher fine if he seeks a hearing, plus attorney's fees. In
    the United States, paying the other side's attorney's fees in a civil >procedure is rare and I've never heard of it for an administrative
    hearing.

    But the problem was that the inspector filed a false statement to drag
    the resident into court. There were no penalties for the false
    statement.

    . . .

    TV licensing response to removal of implied right of access is likely
    illegal fron Black Belt Barrister.

    Is this letter UNLAWFUL?!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXTz6_rhVIQ

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)