LeagleEagle's Devin Stone's video starts with a trigger warning for
practicing attorney, that this is a nightmare scenario in which an
attorney made a massive fuck up. He filed an internal document, a work
product protected by attorney-client privilege, which was a memo
analyzing that the government doesn't have much of a case arguing
against the implimentation of congestion pricing in New York city.

The rest of us can simply be amused but thinking in the back of our
minds, Gosh, if I ever need to hire an attorney, I hope he doesn't inadvertently commit malpractice against me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsnr9yNEh7c

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Apr 25, 2025 at 1:28:44 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <[email protected]> wrote:

LeagleEagle's Devin Stone's video starts with a trigger warning for practicing attorney, that this is a nightmare scenario in which an
attorney made a massive fuck up. He filed an internal document, a work product protected by attorney-client privilege, which was a memo
analyzing that the government doesn't have much of a case arguing
against the implimentation of congestion pricing in New York city.

Which government? If it's the federal government, the only way I can see them having any jurisdiction is via the Commerce Clause because NYC's congestion pricing directly affects commerce with New Jersey.

(Now I'll wait while you pick yourself off the floor and wave the vapors away as you recover from the shock of me actually arguing in *favor* of the use of federal power via the Commerce Clause.)

If it's the state or local governments, I don't see why they wouldn't have a case, since regulating traffic and vehicles is directly a matter of state and local jurisdiction.

One question I can never seem to find the answer to regarding NYC's congestion tolls is how they deal with out-of-state drivers. They must have some way of tolling the New Jersey drivers since that's about 50% of the cars entering Manhattan every day and any tolling scheme that doesn't account for them would be a failure from its inception. But does the system have the ability to
access *every* state's DMV and toll their drivers? If I'm on a driving
vacation and end up in NYC, can the system access the California DMV and hit
me up, too? Not all of these tolling systems can do that, so the answer isn't as clear as you might think. For example, I drive to Texas every Christmas to spend the holidays with my family and I drive on the toll roads around Austin, which allow you to pay by mail if you don't have a transponder. Five years and counting and I have yet to get anything in the mail back in California from
the Texas Toll Roads asking me to pay a toll. So I'm very curious the extent and reach of NYC's toll system.

Here in CA, they announced they're moving forward with the next phase of the road tax scheme, which will charge you for every mile you drive. They're still billing it as a replacement for the gas tax but you can slap my ass and call
me Shirley the day the state of California gives up a tax. I'm 100% certain it will be in *addition* to the gas tax, not in place of it.

Anyway, much like NYC's system, none of the media reports or research I've
done indicate how this system plans to treat miles driven outside of California. As it stands with the gas tax, you only pay it when you fill up your tank in California. Obviously, when you drive outside the state you pay the tax on gas for whatever state you're in (which is in every case several dollars cheaper per gallon than California's tax). Since the state isn't entitled to tax miles driven in other states, I'm very curious how they plan
to address it, because for people like me, that above-mentioned yearly drive
to Texas and back can easily form the bulk of the miles I drive in a given
year and there's no way I'm letting Gavin Newsom reach into my pocket and tax me on miles I'm driving in New Mexico or Texas or Florida.

So I called up that wretched hive of scum and villainy in Sacramento and was bounced from one office to another until I got to the enabling bill's sponsor, and then to the legislative aide who was authoring the damn thing and asked
him how this would all work and he said that right now, it's set up so drivers have a choice. You can either pay the tax based on a simple reading of your odometer (this year's reading minus last year's reading = taxable miles
driven) which would tax all your miles equally or you can choose to have a GPS monitor installed on your vehicle which will note the location of every mile and exempt those driven outside the state. So basically, if you rarely or
never drive outside of the state, you can just have them read your odometer when you get your smog certification and report it to the state or you can do the GPS thing if you're someone who maybe lives near the border or takes long out-of-state trips on a regular basis.

The rest of us can simply be amused but thinking in the back of our
minds, Gosh, if I ever need to hire an attorney, I hope he doesn't inadvertently commit malpractice against me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsnr9yNEh7c

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

BTR1701 <[email protected]> wrote:

Apr 25, 2025 at 1:28:44 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <[email protected]>:

LeagleEagle's Devin Stone's video starts with a trigger warning for >>practicing attorney, that this is a nightmare scenario in which an
attorney made a massive fuck up. He filed an internal document, a work >>product protected by attorney-client privilege, which was a memo
analyzing that the government doesn't have much of a case arguing
against the implimentation of congestion pricing in New York city.

Which government? If it's the federal government, the only way I can see
them having any jurisdiction is via the Commerce Clause because NYC's >congestion pricing directly affects commerce with New Jersey.

To be specific, the lawyer for the Trump administration included the confidential memo that said their case was very weak with the court.

(Now I'll wait while you pick yourself off the floor and wave the vapors away >as you recover from the shock of me actually arguing in *favor* of the use of >federal power via the Commerce Clause.)

You needed to give me a trigger warning here!

If it's the state or local governments, I don't see why they wouldn't have a >case, since regulating traffic and vehicles is directly a matter of state and >local jurisdiction.

One question I can never seem to find the answer to regarding NYC's congestion >tolls is how they deal with out-of-state drivers. They must have some way of >tolling the New Jersey drivers since that's about 50% of the cars entering >Manhattan every day and any tolling scheme that doesn't account for them would >be a failure from its inception. But does the system have the ability to >access *every* state's DMV and toll their drivers?

There are lower tolls for those using EZ-Pass (and I guess tolling
systems they have an agreement with like my state), so that includes New
Jersey and other states. Otherwise you are billed by mail at a higher
toll. It's problematic.

The city Department of Transportation logs the numbers of
unreadable plates, and data expert Jehiah Czebotar visualizes
them every quarter on his website. The takeaway? Two out of
every nine recorded speed violations in New York City were
rejected in September 2024 (the most-recent month for which
there is data) because the vehicle had a temporary license
plate, a marred or otherwise unreadable license plate, or no
detected license plate at all.

The city data show that the biggest offenders are motorcyclists
or moped riders who do not have the required plates. Those
motorists are subject to a small congestion fee.

. . .

The MTA, because it has a police force, has access to state DMV
data for legitimate temporary tags, and says it is only 1.5
percent of its toll transactions are unbillable. But a spokesman
confirmed late on Saturday that "there are some states we do not
receive temp plate information from." (The agency said it would
provide the list on Monday.)

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2025/01/05/congestion-pricing-has-begun-here-is-the-only-explainer-you-need

No they cannot obtain registration information from every state.

If I'm on a driving vacation and end up in NYC, can the system access the >California DMV and hit me up, too? Not all of these tolling systems can
do that, so the answer isn't as clear as you might think. For example,
I drive to Texas every Christmas to spend the holidays with my family
and I drive on the toll roads around Austin, which allow you to pay by
mail if you don't have a transponder. Five years and counting and I have
yet to get anything in the mail back in California from the Texas Toll
Roads asking me to pay a toll. So I'm very curious the extent and reach
of NYC's toll system.

You're probably right that they won't be able to bill you. But if your
state's toll system is compatible with EZ-Pass, remove it.

. . .

So I called up that wretched hive of scum and villainy in Sacramento and was >bounced from one office to another until I got to the enabling bill's sponsor, >and then to the legislative aide who was authoring the damn thing and asked >him how this would all work and he said that right now, it's set up so drivers >have a choice. You can either pay the tax based on a simple reading of your >odometer (this year's reading minus last year's reading = taxable miles >driven) which would tax all your miles equally or you can choose to have a GPS >monitor installed on your vehicle which will note the location of every mile >and exempt those driven outside the state.

That's not creepy or anything. I take it the brain implant isn't quite
ready for prime time?

So basically, if you rarely or
never drive outside of the state, you can just have them read your odometer >when you get your smog certification and report it to the state or you can do >the GPS thing if you're someone who maybe lives near the border or takes long >out-of-state trips on a regular basis.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)