• The ACT1stNat mob are losing . . . for all of us.

    From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 3 23:37:55 2025
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that
    apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing -
    housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking
    vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has
    done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Apr 3 19:22:02 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote: >https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that
    apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing -
    housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking
    vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has
    done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?
    Just lies and political rhetoric. That is all you have got. You are a waste of bandwidth.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 09:22:15 2025
    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that
    apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing -
    housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking
    vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has
    done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the
    Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this
    article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it
    indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 10:11:56 2025
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing -
    housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking
    vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has
    done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the
    Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this
    article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the
    government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for
    electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o
    Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a
    disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more
    serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it
    indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From greybeard@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 11:00:49 2025
    On 4/04/25 10:11, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that
    apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing -
    housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking
    vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has
    done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the
    Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this
    article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o
    Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it
    indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.



    Interesting that if you go down to the comparison of poll issues between
    Aussie and NZ they all almost the same items. Swap healthcare and
    housing around and its nearly a match.
    I can advise you that the NZ government is not running Aussie!
    Please explain why the same issues affect both countries?
    Your rant is exposed!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 13:29:53 2025
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 10:11:56 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing -
    housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking
    vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this
    article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o
    Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it
    indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.

    Your assertion in the subject is no longer true.

    https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/tucur_04_aprpoll2025?utm_campaign=250403_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=taxpayers

    Your rhetoric is therefore without foundation.

    That said, the Government has a lot of work to do. While government
    support teeters, it is starting to move forward now that the Treaty
    Principles Bill issues are now coming to an end. I would expect the
    Maori Party will not be dancing and shouting in Parliament any more
    (assuming they are allowed to remain).


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Apr 4 02:01:34 2025
    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing -
    housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking
    vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this
    article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o
    Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left
    folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many people
    see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear that
    we are all equal under the law.

    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a
    waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort matters
    out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the closing
    of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped





    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it
    indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 14:27:32 2025
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 11:00:49 +1300, greybeard <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 4/04/25 10:11, Rich80105 wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>> apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing -
    housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking
    vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has
    done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the
    Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this
    article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the
    government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for
    electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o
    Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a
    disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more
    serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it
    indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.



    Interesting that if you go down to the comparison of poll issues between >Aussie and NZ they all almost the same items. Swap healthcare and
    housing around and its nearly a match.
    I can advise you that the NZ government is not running Aussie!
    Please explain why the same issues affect both countries?
    Your rant is exposed!

    It is wider than just Australia and New Zealand - essentially the big
    issue is inequality - ownership of land is part of that, and the
    wealthy are in many countries looking to lock in their advantage in a
    variety of ways. The USA and New Zealand both have new governments
    that have embraced (albeit in different ways) the agendas of the Atlas
    Network - there is a passion for all activities of government to be
    reduced where profit can be passed to private organisations. Thus for
    example we have the stupidity of insisting that local authorities
    borrow themselves for capital projects (most recently water), rather
    than have government borrow and on-lend enabling lower interest costs
    - that delivery to the banks can be expected to result in better
    private profit somewhere and slightly higher rates, but that is not a
    problem for central government . . . In the USA some Trump decisions
    appear to be timed to enable judicious sales and purchases by either
    trump personally or others in the ruling elite. Our government wants
    to pass building of social housing to small trusts with no
    construction experience - smaller government with higher profits to
    private companies . . .

    Healthcare is a race to the bottom with private operators and
    insurance companies taking a long view towards a system more like that
    of the USA - a side benefit is that while services to the wealthy will
    improve, those to the poor will decline, which helps relieve
    population pressures.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Gordon on Fri Apr 4 16:05:35 2025
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this
    article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the
    government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for
    electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o
    Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left
    folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many people >see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear that
    we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in
    the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other
    offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty.
    Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is
    recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past
    governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party
    to various determinations of the United Nations that support such
    treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour
    appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights
    of others - that is not treating all people equally.



    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a >waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort matters >out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the closing >of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped
    wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this
    before the country again by referendum. It is good that all
    submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent
    record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is
    necessary is an indication that the government went too far in
    stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not
    submitting on the Bill




    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a
    disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more
    serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 15:34:11 2025
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 13:29:53 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 10:11:56 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New
    Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot
    find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not
    keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and
    whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now
    more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this
    article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of >>course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >>disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >>serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.

    Your assertion in the subject is no longer true.

    https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/tucur_04_aprpoll2025?utm_campaign=250403_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=taxpayers

    Your rhetoric is therefore without foundation.

    That said, the Government has a lot of work to do. While government
    support teeters, it is starting to move forward now that the Treaty >Principles Bill issues are now coming to an end. I would expect the
    Maori Party will not be dancing and shouting in Parliament any more
    (assuming they are allowed to remain).

    Let us hope that the Treaty Principles Bill is coming to an end - that
    will only happen if it is made clear that it will not be proceeding,
    and that there will not be a referendum as threatened by Seymour at
    the time of the next election.

    The 'alternative' survey paid for by the Taxpayers Union is
    interesting in that it appears to be at the extreme limit of
    acceptable margin for two polls taken at the same time - at least for
    the projected seats by party. It is time we insisted on professional
    standards and publication of questions. It is not helpful that Farrar
    resigned from the professional association . . .

    I do not understand the comment "I would expect the Maori Party will
    not be dancing and shouting in Parliament any more (assuming they are
    allowed to remain)."

    Could you explain?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 16:34:50 2025
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 15:34:11 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 13:29:53 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 10:11:56 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>>government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax >>>for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to >>>benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>>electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school >>>children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>>Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and >>>threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of >>>course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston >>>and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and >>>experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >>>disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >>>serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would >>>vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.

    Your assertion in the subject is no longer true.
    https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/tucur_04_aprpoll2025?utm_campaign=250403_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=taxpayers

    Your rhetoric is therefore without foundation.

    That said, the Government has a lot of work to do. While government >>support teeters, it is starting to move forward now that the Treaty >>Principles Bill issues are now coming to an end. I would expect the
    Maori Party will not be dancing and shouting in Parliament any more >>(assuming they are allowed to remain).

    Let us hope that the Treaty Principles Bill is coming to an end - that
    will only happen if it is made clear that it will not be proceeding,
    and that there will not be a referendum as threatened by Seymour at
    the time of the next election.

    The 'alternative' survey paid for by the Taxpayers Union is
    interesting in that it appears to be at the extreme limit of
    acceptable margin for two polls taken at the same time - at least for
    the projected seats by party. It is time we insisted on professional >standards and publication of questions. It is not helpful that Farrar >resigned from the professional association . . .

    I do not understand the comment "I would expect the Maori Party will
    not be dancing and shouting in Parliament any more (assuming they are
    allowed to remain)."

    Could you explain?

    Are you really that thick? Think of the antics the Maori Party got up
    to recently and the consequences of that.

    If you cannot understand what I was referring to then you really do
    need help.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Apr 4 06:09:30 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the
    government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for
    electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o
    Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left
    folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many people >>see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear that >>we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in
    the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other >offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty.
    Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is
    recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past >governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party
    to various determinations of the United Nations that support such
    treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour
    appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights
    of others - that is not treating all people equally.
    No that is a lie, he wants the opposite,he wants the same treatment for all people, which is just the way that the treaty was written.



    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a >>waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort matters >>out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the closing >>of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped
    wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this
    before the country again by referendum. It is good that all
    submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent
    record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is
    necessary is an indication that the government went too far in
    stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.
    A referendum on important matters is never a waste of money, even if you would prefer that such matters not be considered by the people.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not
    submitting on the Bill
    Horseshit.




    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a
    disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more
    serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate
    rationally.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BR@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 20:22:23 2025
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 15:34:11 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    Let us hope that the Treaty Principles Bill is coming to an end - that
    will only happen if it is made clear that it will not be proceeding,
    and that there will not be a referendum as threatened by Seymour at
    the time of the next election.

    Why have you got a problem with a referendum?

    Bill.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 22:47:25 2025
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 16:34:50 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 15:34:11 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 13:29:53 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 10:11:56 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>>>government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax >>>>for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to >>>>benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work. >>>>They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>>>electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school >>>>children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get >>>>into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>>>Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and >>>>threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of >>>>course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of >>>>money.

    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston >>>>and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it >>>>may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major >>>>part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and >>>>experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >>>>disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to >>>>stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now >>>>takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >>>>serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would >>>>vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few >>>>are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>rationally.

    Your assertion in the subject is no longer true.
    https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/tucur_04_aprpoll2025?utm_campaign=250403_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=taxpayers

    Your rhetoric is therefore without foundation.

    That said, the Government has a lot of work to do. While government >>>support teeters, it is starting to move forward now that the Treaty >>>Principles Bill issues are now coming to an end. I would expect the >>>Maori Party will not be dancing and shouting in Parliament any more >>>(assuming they are allowed to remain).

    Let us hope that the Treaty Principles Bill is coming to an end - that
    will only happen if it is made clear that it will not be proceeding,
    and that there will not be a referendum as threatened by Seymour at
    the time of the next election.

    The 'alternative' survey paid for by the Taxpayers Union is
    interesting in that it appears to be at the extreme limit of
    acceptable margin for two polls taken at the same time - at least for
    the projected seats by party. It is time we insisted on professional >>standards and publication of questions. It is not helpful that Farrar >>resigned from the professional association . . .

    I do not understand the comment "I would expect the Maori Party will
    not be dancing and shouting in Parliament any more (assuming they are >>allowed to remain)."

    Could you explain?

    Are you really that thick? Think of the antics the Maori Party got up
    to recently and the consequences of that.
    Yes I was - and there have been comments that the ruling parties may
    be able to exclude them from parliament either temporarily or even
    permanently; by a mock trial without allowing legal representation.
    Now I suspect that may have been a bit over-blown by an eager ACT
    supporter, but even so there has already been a penalty imposed by the
    Speaker, and it hardly held up parliament for any significant length
    of time, and was enjoyed by a large percentage of the population.

    Now it is possible that the comment I queried above is just idle
    speculation, but since you felt it needed not explanation you possibly
    think it a real possibility that they may not be allowed to remain in parliament.


    If you cannot understand what I was referring to then you really do
    need help.

    If you cannot explain your own statement, which appears to presume
    powers of a Committee of Parliament greater than that of the whole
    house, then you are the one that needs help . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Apr 4 22:55:12 2025
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 06:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the
    government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax >>>> for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for
    electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o
    Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left
    folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many people >>>see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear that >>>we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in
    the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other >>offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty.
    Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is
    recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past >>governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party
    to various determinations of the United Nations that support such
    treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour
    appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights
    of others - that is not treating all people equally.
    No that is a lie, he wants the opposite,he wants the same treatment for all >people, which is just the way that the treaty was written.

    Of course it was not written in that way - do you have any credible documentation of anyone ever making that strange assertion?



    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a >>>waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort matters >>>out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the closing >>>of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped
    wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this
    before the country again by referendum. It is good that all
    submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent
    record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is
    necessary is an indication that the government went too far in
    stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.
    A referendum on important matters is never a waste of money, even if you would >prefer that such matters not be considered by the people.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not >>submitting on the Bill
    Horseshit.

    I agree - neither National nor NZ First had the guts to be honest - no
    wonder Seymour is so well regarded by the far-right supporters - he
    has Luxon and Peters (presumably the horseshit you are referring to)
    refusing to criticise him . . .



    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston >>>> and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a
    disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more
    serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>rationally.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Apr 4 19:00:30 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 06:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords? >>>>>>
    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>>>> government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax >>>>> for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to
    benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work.
    They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for
    electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get >>>>> into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o
    Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of >>>>> course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left
    folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many people >>>>see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear that >>>>we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in
    the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other >>>offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty. >>>Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is >>>recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past >>>governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party
    to various determinations of the United Nations that support such >>>treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour
    appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights
    of others - that is not treating all people equally.
    No that is a lie, he wants the opposite,he wants the same treatment for all >>people, which is just the way that the treaty was written.

    Of course it was not written in that way - do you have any credible >documentation of anyone ever making that strange assertion?
    Yes it was - see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxm1Lgf94K4
    Watch it and debate the content and do try to not to attack the speaker.



    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a >>>>waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort matters >>>>out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the closing >>>>of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped
    wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this
    before the country again by referendum. It is good that all
    submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent
    record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is >>>necessary is an indication that the government went too far in
    stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.
    A referendum on important matters is never a waste of money, even if you >>would
    prefer that such matters not be considered by the people.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not >>>submitting on the Bill
    Horseshit.

    Sarcasm removed.


    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston >>>>> and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it >>>>> may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major
    part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >>>>> disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to >>>>> stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now
    takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >>>>> serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would >>>>> vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few >>>>> are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>>rationally.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Apr 4 18:56:40 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 16:34:50 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 15:34:11 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 13:29:53 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 10:11:56 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>>wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords? >>>>>>
    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>>>>government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax >>>>>for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to >>>>>benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased >>>>>rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work. >>>>>They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>>>>electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc >>>>>changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school >>>>>children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get >>>>>into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>>>>Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and >>>>>threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of >>>>>course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of >>>>>money.

    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston >>>>>and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it >>>>>may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major >>>>>part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and >>>>>experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >>>>>disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to >>>>>stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now >>>>>takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >>>>>serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would >>>>>vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few >>>>>are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>>rationally.

    Your assertion in the subject is no longer true.
    https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/tucur_04_aprpoll2025?utm_campaign=250403_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=taxpayers

    Your rhetoric is therefore without foundation.

    That said, the Government has a lot of work to do. While government >>>>support teeters, it is starting to move forward now that the Treaty >>>>Principles Bill issues are now coming to an end. I would expect the >>>>Maori Party will not be dancing and shouting in Parliament any more >>>>(assuming they are allowed to remain).

    Let us hope that the Treaty Principles Bill is coming to an end - that >>>will only happen if it is made clear that it will not be proceeding,
    and that there will not be a referendum as threatened by Seymour at
    the time of the next election.

    The 'alternative' survey paid for by the Taxpayers Union is
    interesting in that it appears to be at the extreme limit of
    acceptable margin for two polls taken at the same time - at least for
    the projected seats by party. It is time we insisted on professional >>>standards and publication of questions. It is not helpful that Farrar >>>resigned from the professional association . . .

    I do not understand the comment "I would expect the Maori Party will
    not be dancing and shouting in Parliament any more (assuming they are >>>allowed to remain)."

    Could you explain?

    Are you really that thick? Think of the antics the Maori Party got up
    to recently and the consequences of that.
    Yes I was - and there have been comments that the ruling parties may
    be able to exclude them from parliament either temporarily or even >permanently; by a mock trial without allowing legal representation.
    Now I suspect that may have been a bit over-blown by an eager ACT
    supporter, but even so there has already been a penalty imposed by the >Speaker, and it hardly held up parliament for any significant length
    of time, and was enjoyed by a large percentage of the population.
    All of which completely ignores the real issue, which is the appalling way those idiots treated everyone in this country by disrespecting parliament.
    I don't know what penalty if any is appropriate but for you to treat it like a misdemeanour is disgraceful.

    Now it is possible that the comment I queried above is just idle
    speculation, but since you felt it needed not explanation you possibly
    think it a real possibility that they may not be allowed to remain in >parliament.


    If you cannot understand what I was referring to then you really do
    need help.

    If you cannot explain your own statement, which appears to presume
    powers of a Committee of Parliament greater than that of the whole
    house, then you are the one that needs help . . .
    There he is, the real abusive Rich. It can't hide for very long eh?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Apr 5 11:13:47 2025
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 19:00:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 06:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>>>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>>>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>>>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords? >>>>>>>
    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>>>>> government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax >>>>>> for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to >>>>>> benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased
    rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work. >>>>>> They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>>>>> electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school
    children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get >>>>>> into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>>>>> Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of >>>>>> course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of
    money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left
    folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many people >>>>>see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear that >>>>>we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in >>>>the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other >>>>offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty. >>>>Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is >>>>recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past >>>>governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party >>>>to various determinations of the United Nations that support such >>>>treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour
    appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights
    of others - that is not treating all people equally.
    No that is a lie, he wants the opposite,he wants the same treatment for all >>>people, which is just the way that the treaty was written.

    Of course it was not written in that way - do you have any credible >>documentation of anyone ever making that strange assertion?
    Yes it was - see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxm1Lgf94K4
    Watch it and debate the content and do try to not to attack the speaker.

    The speaker is unfortunately wrong - he has been misled. There are
    about 7 different drafts in English of the Treaty, the drafts sent to
    England and to Sydney differ from each other, and from others that
    were produced in the English language either before or after the
    Treaty was signed. The most accurate English translation is said to
    have been produced overnight at Waitangi as a translation of the Maori
    version after it had been signed by the Maori Chiefs present that day
    - it was translated from the Maori by a man who spoke both Maori and
    English, and given to the Consul for the United States of America to
    send to his government; I understand that it is stored in the National
    Library in Washington DC.

    The reality of different versions has been known for some time, and
    was studied extensively by academics - Julian Batchelor appears to be
    ignorant of that work, or of the determination by our highest court
    that it is the version in the Maori language signed by the chiefs at
    Waitangi and subsequently by others that is the true agreement between
    the Crown and Maori; and that judgement has been the basis for all
    subsequent treaty settlements by governments for many years now.

    We should be very sorry that Julian Batchelor has been so misled
    either by the material he has read himself or been told of by others.
    Sadly such mischief is not unique - many will recall the scurrilous distribution of a paper written by Apirana Ngata that was based on the understanding of the Treaty by many pakeha that in some cases was
    based on whatever interpretation best served the pakeha settlers of
    the day, and where land confiscated or wrongly taken in those times
    became the subject of more recent settlements following the correction
    of understanding of the words of the Treaty and the establishment of
    the Waitangi Tribunal to assist in settling long standing issues
    arising from previous mis-interpretations of the Treaty.

    I suspect that the reason for the appointment of Richard Prebble to
    the Waitangi Tribunal was so that he could push ACT party ideas, but
    that he quickly became aware that ACT was getting the basis of the
    Treaty and the reason for the Tribunal wrong, and had to quickly leave
    as he could not support that part of ACTs misconceptions. Others have speculated that the reason why ACT is taking such a strange attitude
    towards racism and the Treaty is that they want to foster a breakdown
    in community trust, albeit in a different way than Trump, so that they
    can establish a far-right virtual dictatorship that best benefits the
    wealthy.








    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a >>>>>waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort matters >>>>>out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the closing
    of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped >>>>wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this
    before the country again by referendum. It is good that all
    submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent >>>>record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is >>>>necessary is an indication that the government went too far in >>>>stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.
    A referendum on important matters is never a waste of money, even if you >>>would
    prefer that such matters not be considered by the people.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not >>>>submitting on the Bill
    Horseshit.

    Sarcasm removed.


    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston >>>>>> and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it >>>>>> may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major >>>>>> part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >>>>>> disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to >>>>>> stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now >>>>>> takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >>>>>> serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would >>>>>> vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few >>>>>> are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>>>rationally.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Apr 4 22:33:54 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 19:00:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 06:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that >>>>>>>>>apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>>>>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>>>>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords? >>>>>>>>
    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>>>>>> government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax >>>>>>> for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to >>>>>>> benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased >>>>>>> rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work. >>>>>>> They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>>>>>> electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc
    changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school >>>>>>> children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get >>>>>>> into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>>>>>> Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and
    threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of >>>>>>> course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of >>>>>>> money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left
    folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many people
    see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear that
    we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in >>>>>the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other >>>>>offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty. >>>>>Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is >>>>>recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past >>>>>governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party >>>>>to various determinations of the United Nations that support such >>>>>treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour >>>>>appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights >>>>>of others - that is not treating all people equally.
    No that is a lie, he wants the opposite,he wants the same treatment for all >>>>people, which is just the way that the treaty was written.

    Of course it was not written in that way - do you have any credible >>>documentation of anyone ever making that strange assertion?
    Yes it was - see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxm1Lgf94K4
    Watch it and debate the content and do try to not to attack the speaker.

    The speaker is unfortunately wrong
    So you say without any proof.
    That means your opinion is simply that, an opinion.
    - he has been misled. There are
    about 7 different drafts in English of the Treaty, the drafts sent to
    England and to Sydney differ from each other, and from others that
    were produced in the English language either before or after the
    Treaty was signed. The most accurate English translation is said to
    have been produced overnight at Waitangi as a translation of the Maori >version after it had been signed by the Maori Chiefs present that day
    - it was translated from the Maori by a man who spoke both Maori and
    English, and given to the Consul for the United States of America to
    send to his government; I understand that it is stored in the National >Library in Washington DC.
    What you understand is opinion at best, not proof.

    The reality of different versions has been known for some time, and
    was studied extensively by academics - Julian Batchelor appears to be >ignorant of that work, or of the determination by our highest court
    that it is the version in the Maori language signed by the chiefs at
    Waitangi and subsequently by others that is the true agreement between
    the Crown and Maori; and that judgement has been the basis for all
    subsequent treaty settlements by governments for many years now.
    Again, no proof.

    We should be very sorry that Julian Batchelor has been so misled
    either by the material he has read himself or been told of by others.
    Sadly such mischief is not unique - many will recall the scurrilous >distribution of a paper written by Apirana Ngata that was based on the >understanding of the Treaty by many pakeha that in some cases was
    based on whatever interpretation best served the pakeha settlers of
    the day, and where land confiscated or wrongly taken in those times
    became the subject of more recent settlements following the correction
    of understanding of the words of the Treaty and the establishment of
    the Waitangi Tribunal to assist in settling long standing issues
    arising from previous mis-interpretations of the Treaty.
    Nonsense. No evidence for that has been provided. And you kept to your awful standards by being nasty about the presenter. No surprise.

    Off topic.







    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a >>>>>>waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort matters >>>>>>out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the >>>>>>closing
    of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped >>>>>wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this >>>>>before the country again by referendum. It is good that all >>>>>submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent >>>>>record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is >>>>>necessary is an indication that the government went too far in >>>>>stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.
    A referendum on important matters is never a waste of money, even if you >>>>would
    prefer that such matters not be considered by the people.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not >>>>>submitting on the Bill
    Horseshit.

    Sarcasm removed.


    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston >>>>>>> and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it >>>>>>> may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major >>>>>>> part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and
    experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >>>>>>> disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to >>>>>>> stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now >>>>>>> takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >>>>>>> serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would >>>>>>> vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few >>>>>>> are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>>>>rationally.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Apr 5 03:03:24 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 22:33:54 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 19:00:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 06:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise >>>>>>>>>>>that
    apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>>>>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>>>>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has
    done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords? >>>>>>>>>>
    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>>>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>>>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>>>>>>>> government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to >>>>>>>>> benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased >>>>>>>>> rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work. >>>>>>>>> They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>>>>>>>> electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc >>>>>>>>> changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school >>>>>>>>> children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get >>>>>>>>> into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>>>>>>>> Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and >>>>>>>>> threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of >>>>>>>>> course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of >>>>>>>>> money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left >>>>>>>>folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many >>>>>>>>people
    see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear >>>>>>>>that
    we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in >>>>>>>the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other >>>>>>>offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty. >>>>>>>Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is >>>>>>>recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past >>>>>>>governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party >>>>>>>to various determinations of the United Nations that support such >>>>>>>treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour >>>>>>>appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights >>>>>>>of others - that is not treating all people equally.
    No that is a lie, he wants the opposite,he wants the same treatment for >>>>>>all
    people, which is just the way that the treaty was written.

    Of course it was not written in that way - do you have any credible >>>>>documentation of anyone ever making that strange assertion?
    Yes it was - see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxm1Lgf94K4
    Watch it and debate the content and do try to not to attack the speaker. >>>
    The speaker is unfortunately wrong
    So you say without any proof.
    That means your opinion is simply that, an opinion.
    - he has been misled. There are
    about 7 different drafts in English of the Treaty, the drafts sent to >>>England and to Sydney differ from each other, and from others that
    were produced in the English language either before or after the
    Treaty was signed. The most accurate English translation is said to
    have been produced overnight at Waitangi as a translation of the Maori >>>version after it had been signed by the Maori Chiefs present that day
    - it was translated from the Maori by a man who spoke both Maori and >>>English, and given to the Consul for the United States of America to
    send to his government; I understand that it is stored in the National >>>Library in Washington DC.
    What you understand is opinion at best, not proof.

    The reality of different versions has been known for some time, and
    was studied extensively by academics - Julian Batchelor appears to be >>>ignorant of that work, or of the determination by our highest court
    that it is the version in the Maori language signed by the chiefs at >>>Waitangi and subsequently by others that is the true agreement between >>>the Crown and Maori; and that judgement has been the basis for all >>>subsequent treaty settlements by governments for many years now.
    Again, no proof.

    We should be very sorry that Julian Batchelor has been so misled
    either by the material he has read himself or been told of by others. >>>Sadly such mischief is not unique - many will recall the scurrilous >>>distribution of a paper written by Apirana Ngata that was based on the >>>understanding of the Treaty by many pakeha that in some cases was
    based on whatever interpretation best served the pakeha settlers of
    the day, and where land confiscated or wrongly taken in those times >>>became the subject of more recent settlements following the correction
    of understanding of the words of the Treaty and the establishment of
    the Waitangi Tribunal to assist in settling long standing issues
    arising from previous mis-interpretations of the Treaty.
    Nonsense. No evidence for that has been provided. And you kept to your awful >>standards by being nasty about the presenter. No surprise.

    Off topic.







    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a
    waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort >>>>>>>>matters
    out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the >>>>>>>>closing
    of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped >>>>>>>wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this >>>>>>>before the country again by referendum. It is good that all >>>>>>>submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent >>>>>>>record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is >>>>>>>necessary is an indication that the government went too far in >>>>>>>stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.
    A referendum on important matters is never a waste of money, even if you >>>>>>would
    prefer that such matters not be considered by the people.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not >>>>>>>submitting on the Bill
    Horseshit.

    Sarcasm removed.


    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it >>>>>>>>> may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major >>>>>>>>> part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and >>>>>>>>> experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >>>>>>>>> disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to >>>>>>>>> stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients. >>>>>>>>>
    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now >>>>>>>>> takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >>>>>>>>> serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would >>>>>>>>> vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few >>>>>>>>> are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>>>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>>>>>>rationally.

    Meantime, some good is still happening through the Waitangi Tribunal -
    this is the sort of settlement that Seymour and Tony want to stop . .
    .
    Drunk already?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Apr 5 15:48:27 2025
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 22:33:54 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 19:00:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 06:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise that
    apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia >>>>>>>>>>has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>>>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food >>>>>>>>>>and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has >>>>>>>>>>done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords? >>>>>>>>>
    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>>>>>>> government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax >>>>>>>> for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to >>>>>>>> benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased >>>>>>>> rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work. >>>>>>>> They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>>>>>>> electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc >>>>>>>> changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school >>>>>>>> children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get >>>>>>>> into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>>>>>>> Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and >>>>>>>> threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of >>>>>>>> course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of >>>>>>>> money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left >>>>>>>folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many people
    see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear that
    we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in >>>>>>the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other >>>>>>offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty. >>>>>>Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is >>>>>>recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past >>>>>>governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party >>>>>>to various determinations of the United Nations that support such >>>>>>treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour >>>>>>appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights >>>>>>of others - that is not treating all people equally.
    No that is a lie, he wants the opposite,he wants the same treatment for all
    people, which is just the way that the treaty was written.

    Of course it was not written in that way - do you have any credible >>>>documentation of anyone ever making that strange assertion?
    Yes it was - see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxm1Lgf94K4
    Watch it and debate the content and do try to not to attack the speaker.

    The speaker is unfortunately wrong
    So you say without any proof.
    That means your opinion is simply that, an opinion.
    - he has been misled. There are
    about 7 different drafts in English of the Treaty, the drafts sent to >>England and to Sydney differ from each other, and from others that
    were produced in the English language either before or after the
    Treaty was signed. The most accurate English translation is said to
    have been produced overnight at Waitangi as a translation of the Maori >>version after it had been signed by the Maori Chiefs present that day
    - it was translated from the Maori by a man who spoke both Maori and >>English, and given to the Consul for the United States of America to
    send to his government; I understand that it is stored in the National >>Library in Washington DC.
    What you understand is opinion at best, not proof.

    The reality of different versions has been known for some time, and
    was studied extensively by academics - Julian Batchelor appears to be >>ignorant of that work, or of the determination by our highest court
    that it is the version in the Maori language signed by the chiefs at >>Waitangi and subsequently by others that is the true agreement between
    the Crown and Maori; and that judgement has been the basis for all >>subsequent treaty settlements by governments for many years now.
    Again, no proof.

    We should be very sorry that Julian Batchelor has been so misled
    either by the material he has read himself or been told of by others.
    Sadly such mischief is not unique - many will recall the scurrilous >>distribution of a paper written by Apirana Ngata that was based on the >>understanding of the Treaty by many pakeha that in some cases was
    based on whatever interpretation best served the pakeha settlers of
    the day, and where land confiscated or wrongly taken in those times
    became the subject of more recent settlements following the correction
    of understanding of the words of the Treaty and the establishment of
    the Waitangi Tribunal to assist in settling long standing issues
    arising from previous mis-interpretations of the Treaty.
    Nonsense. No evidence for that has been provided. And you kept to your awful >standards by being nasty about the presenter. No surprise.

    Off topic.







    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a >>>>>>>waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort matters
    out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the >>>>>>>closing
    of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped >>>>>>wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this >>>>>>before the country again by referendum. It is good that all >>>>>>submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent >>>>>>record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is >>>>>>necessary is an indication that the government went too far in >>>>>>stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.
    A referendum on important matters is never a waste of money, even if you >>>>>would
    prefer that such matters not be considered by the people.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not >>>>>>submitting on the Bill
    Horseshit.

    Sarcasm removed.


    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston >>>>>>>> and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it >>>>>>>> may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major >>>>>>>> part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and >>>>>>>> experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a >>>>>>>> disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to >>>>>>>> stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients.

    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now >>>>>>>> takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more >>>>>>>> serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems.

    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would >>>>>>>> vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few >>>>>>>> are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>>>>>rationally.

    Meantime, some good is still happening through the Waitangi Tribunal -
    this is the sort of settlement that Seymour and Tony want to stop . .
    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Apr 5 16:23:59 2025
    On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 03:03:24 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 22:33:54 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 19:00:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 06:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise >>>>>>>>>>>>that
    apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>>>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>>>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>>>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>>>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking >>>>>>>>>>>>vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>>>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government has
    done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords? >>>>>>>>>>>
    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>>>>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>>>>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the >>>>>>>>>> government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to >>>>>>>>>> benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased >>>>>>>>>> rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work. >>>>>>>>>> They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>>>>>>>>> electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc >>>>>>>>>> changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school >>>>>>>>>> children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get >>>>>>>>>> into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>>>>>>>>> Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and >>>>>>>>>> threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of >>>>>>>>>> money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left >>>>>>>>>folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many >>>>>>>>>people
    see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear >>>>>>>>>that
    we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in >>>>>>>>the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other >>>>>>>>offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty. >>>>>>>>Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is >>>>>>>>recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past >>>>>>>>governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party >>>>>>>>to various determinations of the United Nations that support such >>>>>>>>treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour >>>>>>>>appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights >>>>>>>>of others - that is not treating all people equally.
    No that is a lie, he wants the opposite,he wants the same treatment for >>>>>>>all
    people, which is just the way that the treaty was written.

    Of course it was not written in that way - do you have any credible >>>>>>documentation of anyone ever making that strange assertion?
    Yes it was - see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxm1Lgf94K4 >>>>>Watch it and debate the content and do try to not to attack the speaker. >>>>
    The speaker is unfortunately wrong
    So you say without any proof.
    That means your opinion is simply that, an opinion.
    - he has been misled. There are
    about 7 different drafts in English of the Treaty, the drafts sent to >>>>England and to Sydney differ from each other, and from others that
    were produced in the English language either before or after the
    Treaty was signed. The most accurate English translation is said to >>>>have been produced overnight at Waitangi as a translation of the Maori >>>>version after it had been signed by the Maori Chiefs present that day
    - it was translated from the Maori by a man who spoke both Maori and >>>>English, and given to the Consul for the United States of America to >>>>send to his government; I understand that it is stored in the National >>>>Library in Washington DC.
    What you understand is opinion at best, not proof.

    The reality of different versions has been known for some time, and
    was studied extensively by academics - Julian Batchelor appears to be >>>>ignorant of that work, or of the determination by our highest court >>>>that it is the version in the Maori language signed by the chiefs at >>>>Waitangi and subsequently by others that is the true agreement between >>>>the Crown and Maori; and that judgement has been the basis for all >>>>subsequent treaty settlements by governments for many years now.
    Again, no proof.

    We should be very sorry that Julian Batchelor has been so misled
    either by the material he has read himself or been told of by others. >>>>Sadly such mischief is not unique - many will recall the scurrilous >>>>distribution of a paper written by Apirana Ngata that was based on the >>>>understanding of the Treaty by many pakeha that in some cases was
    based on whatever interpretation best served the pakeha settlers of
    the day, and where land confiscated or wrongly taken in those times >>>>became the subject of more recent settlements following the correction >>>>of understanding of the words of the Treaty and the establishment of >>>>the Waitangi Tribunal to assist in settling long standing issues >>>>arising from previous mis-interpretations of the Treaty.
    Nonsense. No evidence for that has been provided. And you kept to your awful >>>standards by being nasty about the presenter. No surprise.

    Off topic.







    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum is a
    waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort >>>>>>>>>matters
    out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the >>>>>>>>>closing
    of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process.

    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped >>>>>>>>wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this >>>>>>>>before the country again by referendum. It is good that all >>>>>>>>submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent >>>>>>>>record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is >>>>>>>>necessary is an indication that the government went too far in >>>>>>>>stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.
    A referendum on important matters is never a waste of money, even if you >>>>>>>would
    prefer that such matters not be considered by the people.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not >>>>>>>>submitting on the Bill
    Horseshit.

    Sarcasm removed.


    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major >>>>>>>>>> part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and >>>>>>>>>> experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was a
    disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to >>>>>>>>>> stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients. >>>>>>>>>>
    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now >>>>>>>>>> takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and more
    serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems. >>>>>>>>>>
    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>>>>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>>>>>>>rationally.

    Meantime, some good is still happening through the Waitangi Tribunal -
    this is the sort of settlement that Seymour and Tony want to stop . .
    .
    Drunk already?

    Your posts do indicate that you may well be Tony, but good on you for recognising that you may well have a problem. Your tendency to delete
    parts of posts you do not understand may be exacerbated by alcohol - I
    do recommend giving up alcohol entirely if indeed you are having those
    problems - it is getting more fashionable, and under the current
    government you may well be worse off than even only a few years ago -
    the money you save may help you further.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Apr 5 06:52:12 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 03:03:24 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 22:33:54 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 19:00:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 06:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 02:01:34 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
    On 2025-04-03, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:22:15 +1300, Crash >>>>>>>>>>><[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 23:37:55 +1300, Rich80105 >>>>>>>>>>>><[email protected]>
    wrote:
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/03/21/ratings-of-government-performance-hit-new-low-ipsos-survey/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJbQ4JleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbIxZStqlP_hGnoMFt3NCwW8fVrHu-jm96vz011Kk1kxplnyGMlzMB-IzA_aem_RMca-MEVncUjYnMVB9CAaw

    Government hits new low - as more and more New Zealanders realise >>>>>>>>>>>>>that
    apart from lining their own pockets they have achieved nothing - >>>>>>>>>>>>>housing, schools, hospitals are all worse off, many more New >>>>>>>>>>>>>Zealanders are struggling to pay for housing (and many more cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>find any place to live), , employment has tanked, wages are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>keeping up with costs, rents are rising faster than inflation and >>>>>>>>>>>>>whole industries are significantly smaller then previously. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Australia
    has yet another influx of New Zealanders, more children are smoking
    vapes and getting groomed for drugs or tobacco, and poverty is now >>>>>>>>>>>>>more widespread and visible - many are having to choose between >>>>>>>>>>>>>food
    and heating . . . Is there any single item that this government >>>>>>>>>>>>>has
    done to improve the lives of New Zealanders that are not landlords?

    Rich the article you cited is purely on how respondents rated the >>>>>>>>>>>>Government. There is nothing in that article about why, so this >>>>>>>>>>>>article is unrelated to your political rhetoric.

    The point of the article was that New Zealanders are seeing that the
    government appears to have only achieved one major goal - reducing >>>>>>>>>>>tax
    for landlords, and ensuring that, as far as possible, increases to >>>>>>>>>>> benefits and wages fall below inflation; that they have increased >>>>>>>>>>> rates hugely as they force local authorities to fund all that work. >>>>>>>>>>> They have done nothing about NZ having among the highest prices for >>>>>>>>>>> electricity in the world; schools are being disrupted by ad hoc >>>>>>>>>>> changes to curriculums; and deteriorating buildings, while school >>>>>>>>>>> children are being encouraged by an increased number of shops to get
    into vaping and drugs.

    They are ignoring democracy with Seymour's re-write of te Titiri o >>>>>>>>>>> Waitangi, by not even counting submissi0ns for and against, and >>>>>>>>>>> threatening a costly referendum to keep their race-baiting alive - >>>>>>>>>>>of
    course the NZ Taxpayers Union has no criticism of such a waste of >>>>>>>>>>> money.

    First off, you have this all in backwards mode, you the left >>>>>>>>>>folks think that Seymour is trying to rewrite the Treaty, when many >>>>>>>>>>people
    see it as you, the left are trying to race bait.

    The Tereaty Bill is trying to de-racist New Zealand. To make it clear >>>>>>>>>>that
    we are all equal under the law.

    The law will never stop some New Zealanders from being racist, and in >>>>>>>>>the past the law was abused to allow the taking of property, and other >>>>>>>>>offences against Maori that resulted in breach of the Treaty. >>>>>>>>>Compensation for past wrongs is rightly part of our law, as is >>>>>>>>>recognition of the sanctity of contracts and Treaties to which past >>>>>>>>>governments have committed our Country. New Zealand has been a party >>>>>>>>>to various determinations of the United Nations that support such >>>>>>>>>treaties with indigenous peoples being respected. Sadly Seymour >>>>>>>>>appears to want to ignore the rights of some in favour of the rights >>>>>>>>>of others - that is not treating all people equally.
    No that is a lie, he wants the opposite,he wants the same treatment for >>>>>>>>all
    people, which is just the way that the treaty was written.

    Of course it was not written in that way - do you have any credible >>>>>>>documentation of anyone ever making that strange assertion?
    Yes it was - see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxm1Lgf94K4 >>>>>>Watch it and debate the content and do try to not to attack the speaker. >>>>>
    The speaker is unfortunately wrong
    So you say without any proof.
    That means your opinion is simply that, an opinion.
    - he has been misled. There are
    about 7 different drafts in English of the Treaty, the drafts sent to >>>>>England and to Sydney differ from each other, and from others that >>>>>were produced in the English language either before or after the >>>>>Treaty was signed. The most accurate English translation is said to >>>>>have been produced overnight at Waitangi as a translation of the Maori >>>>>version after it had been signed by the Maori Chiefs present that day >>>>>- it was translated from the Maori by a man who spoke both Maori and >>>>>English, and given to the Consul for the United States of America to >>>>>send to his government; I understand that it is stored in the National >>>>>Library in Washington DC.
    What you understand is opinion at best, not proof.

    The reality of different versions has been known for some time, and >>>>>was studied extensively by academics - Julian Batchelor appears to be >>>>>ignorant of that work, or of the determination by our highest court >>>>>that it is the version in the Maori language signed by the chiefs at >>>>>Waitangi and subsequently by others that is the true agreement between >>>>>the Crown and Maori; and that judgement has been the basis for all >>>>>subsequent treaty settlements by governments for many years now. >>>>Again, no proof.

    We should be very sorry that Julian Batchelor has been so misled >>>>>either by the material he has read himself or been told of by others. >>>>>Sadly such mischief is not unique - many will recall the scurrilous >>>>>distribution of a paper written by Apirana Ngata that was based on the >>>>>understanding of the Treaty by many pakeha that in some cases was >>>>>based on whatever interpretation best served the pakeha settlers of >>>>>the day, and where land confiscated or wrongly taken in those times >>>>>became the subject of more recent settlements following the correction >>>>>of understanding of the words of the Treaty and the establishment of >>>>>the Waitangi Tribunal to assist in settling long standing issues >>>>>arising from previous mis-interpretations of the Treaty.
    Nonsense. No evidence for that has been provided. And you kept to your >>>>awful
    standards by being nasty about the presenter. No surprise.

    Off topic.







    Secondly, I for one would never think that the cost of a referendum >>>>>>>>>>is a
    waste of money in a democracy. Some times it is essential to sort >>>>>>>>>>matters
    out.

    What the Government is being assused of is riding ruff sod over the >>>>>>>>>>closing
    of the submisions to the Treaty Bill, not doing due process. >>>>>>>>>>
    Seems that the fat lady is yet to sing.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557166/justice-select-committee-calls-for-treaty-principles-bill-to-be-scrapped

    Yes, it unfortunately does not indicate that Seymour has stopped >>>>>>>>>wanting to waste time and a huge amount of money by putting this >>>>>>>>>before the country again by referendum. It is good that all >>>>>>>>>submissions will eventually be included in the official, permanent >>>>>>>>>record of the committee's proceedings on the bill - that this is >>>>>>>>>necessary is an indication that the government went too far in >>>>>>>>>stripping the public sector of adequate staffing.
    A referendum on important matters is never a waste of money, even if >>>>>>>>you
    would
    prefer that such matters not be considered by the people.

    Also interesting was the cowardice of National and NZ First in not >>>>>>>>>submitting on the Bill
    Horseshit.

    Sarcasm removed.


    Luxon is seen as near useless in attempting to be Trump-lite - >>>>>>>>>>>Winston
    and Shane Jones do what they like and spray money where they think >>>>>>>>>>>it
    may give them votes, but overall the government has stopped a major >>>>>>>>>>> part of the construction industry - firms are still closing and >>>>>>>>>>> experienced workers going overseas. The Commissioner for Health was >>>>>>>>>>>a
    disaster, and we now have hospitals and GPs struggling to be able to
    stay open. let alone meet time standards for seeing patients. >>>>>>>>>>>
    The sackings of public servants has just meant that everything now >>>>>>>>>>> takes longer - and police are under pressure from a renewed (and >>>>>>>>>>>more
    serious) spate of ram raids and murders and drug problems. >>>>>>>>>>>
    How respondents rate the government is an indicator of how they >>>>>>>>>>>would
    vote if given a chance - so far I would only say to you that very >>>>>>>>>>>few
    are impressed.

    Together with your inability to recognise who starts threads, it >>>>>>>>>>>>indicates that you are not over detail or ability to debate >>>>>>>>>>>>rationally.

    Meantime, some good is still happening through the Waitangi Tribunal - >>>this is the sort of settlement that Seymour and Tony want to stop . .
    .
    Drunk already?

    Your posts do indicate that you may well be Tony, but good on you for >recognising that you may well have a problem. Your tendency to delete
    parts of posts you do not understand may be exacerbated by alcohol - I
    do recommend giving up alcohol entirely if indeed you are having those >problems - it is getting more fashionable, and under the current
    government you may well be worse off than even only a few years ago -
    the money you save may help you further.
    The question mark indicates that my post was interrogative.
    Since you missed that and turned to abuse I may presume that you are indeed drunk.
    How about you actually repeat your previous post using meaningful language and actually addresses something, of did you vomit over your keyboard again?

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