• One more submission

    From Tony@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 10 20:38:29 2025
    XPost: nz.politics

    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/
    A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the lies that TPM are using.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jan 11 10:09:22 2025
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/
    A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the lies >that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jan 10 22:08:36 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/
    A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the lies >>that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?
    He got it spot on. Who he is only matters to people like you and other idiots, I care about the content, did you understand that? I guess not then.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jan 10 22:20:30 2025
    On 2025-01-10, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/
    A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the lies >>that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?

    Personally I do not care, for he has written a good sumission of the history
    of the Treaty's creation. I care not if Graeme Spenser is part of the Altas Group or any other far right group.

    Also found at

    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/01/graeme-spencer-treaty-principles.html

    "Graeme Spencer is a staunch New Zealander who believes in racial equality and one law for
    all."

    The comments are interesting. I seems as if there is an expectation that
    that this bill does not have the support of National and thus is a dead
    horse.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Gordon on Sat Jan 11 00:28:23 2025
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025-01-10, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/
    A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the >>>lies
    that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?

    Personally I do not care, for he has written a good sumission of the history >of the Treaty's creation. I care not if Graeme Spencer is part of the Altas >Group or any other far right group.
    Exactly, all of that is irrelevant.
    Only the facts matter and Spencer has provided those.
    Interesting that Dickbot simply says Spencer is wrong, not a skerrick of evidence provided by him or her.
    I suspect Rich is actually not a New Zealander. Even if he has paper that says he is, he really is not one in his dark mind and soul.

    Also found at

    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/01/graeme-spencer-treaty-principles.html

    "Graeme Spencer is a staunch New Zealander who believes in racial equality and >one law for
    all."

    The comments are interesting. I seems as if there is an expectation that
    that this bill does not have the support of National and thus is a dead >horse.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Tony on Sat Jan 11 03:00:17 2025
    On 2025-01-11, Tony <[email protected]> wrote:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025-01-10, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/ >>>>A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the >>>>lies
    that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?

    Personally I do not care, for he has written a good sumission of the history >>of the Treaty's creation. I care not if Graeme Spencer is part of the Altas >>Group or any other far right group.
    Exactly, all of that is irrelevant.
    Only the facts matter and Spencer has provided those.
    Interesting that Dickbot simply says Spencer is wrong, not a skerrick of evidence provided by him or her.
    I suspect Rich is actually not a New Zealander. Even if he has paper that says
    he is, he really is not one in his dark mind and soul.

    Also found at
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/01/graeme-spencer-treaty-principles.html

    "Graeme Spencer is a staunch New Zealander who believes in racial equality and
    one law for
    all."

    The comments are interesting. I seems as if there is an expectation that >>that this bill does not have the support of National and thus is a dead >>horse.

    Correction: It seems as if there is an expectation that the Bill will get
    its 2nd reading, not fail to progress owing to lack of support by National.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Gordon on Sat Jan 11 17:51:45 2025
    On 10 Jan 2025 22:20:30 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-01-10, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/
    A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the lies
    that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?

    Personally I do not care, for he has written a good sumission of the history >of the Treaty's creation. I care not if Graeme Spenser is part of the Altas >Group or any other far right group.

    Also found at

    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/01/graeme-spencer-treaty-principles.html

    Thanks for that. The NZCPR generally follows the same ideas that the
    Atlas Network pushes, but I am not aware of them being part of that organisation yet. They are perhaps best known for circulating a
    document written by Sir Apirana Ngata and pretended that they did not
    know that later scholarship had shown that the understanding of
    lawyers and judges at that time has proved to be wrong, being based on
    an English version of the Treaty that differed from the version signed
    by most of the Maori Chiefs.

    "Graeme Spencer is a staunch New Zealander who believes in racial equality and one law for
    all."
    One law for all is an attractive concept, but it must be seen
    separately from honouring contracts between different people, or
    between the Crown and particular groups - Te Tiriti o Waitangi was
    signed before there were any New Zealand laws, and abrogating a Treaty
    is not the same thing as providing one law for all.


    The comments are interesting. I seems as if there is an expectation that
    that this bill does not have the support of National and thus is a dead >horse.

    National are being a bit cute on this one - not in the coalition
    agreement were making the time for submissions so short, and ending
    during a holiday period, or having a very long select Committee
    process giving the ACT party centre stage to foment disunity for a
    very long time. Poor Christopher Luxon is clearly out of his depth.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jan 11 06:00:28 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 10 Jan 2025 22:20:30 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-01-10, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/ >>>>A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the >>>>lies
    that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?

    Personally I do not care, for he has written a good sumission of the history >>of the Treaty's creation. I care not if Graeme Spenser is part of the Altas >>Group or any other far right group.

    Also found at
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/01/graeme-spencer-treaty-principles.html

    Thanks for that. The NZCPR generally follows the same ideas that the
    Atlas Network pushes, but I am not aware of them being part of that >organisation yet. They are perhaps best known for circulating a
    document written by Sir Apirana Ngata and pretended that they did not
    know that later scholarship had shown that the understanding of
    lawyers and judges at that time has proved to be wrong, being based on
    an English version of the Treaty that differed from the version signed
    by most of the Maori Chiefs.
    That is a lie and we all know it.

    "Graeme Spencer is a staunch New Zealander who believes in racial equality >>and one law for
    all."
    One law for all is an attractive concept, but it must be seen
    separately from honouring contracts between different people, or
    between the Crown and particular groups - Te Tiriti o Waitangi was
    signed before there were any New Zealand laws, and abrogating a Treaty
    is not the same thing as providing one law for all.
    Another lie.


    The comments are interesting. I seems as if there is an expectation that >>that this bill does not have the support of National and thus is a dead >>horse.

    National are being a bit cute on this one - not in the coalition
    agreement were making the time for submissions so short, and ending
    during a holiday period, or having a very long select Committee
    process giving the ACT party centre stage to foment disunity for a
    very long time. Poor Christopher Luxon is clearly out of his depth.
    He is not, but you are.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jan 11 05:59:17 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 00:28:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025-01-10, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><[email protected]> wrote:
    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/ >>>>>A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the >>>>>lies
    that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?

    Personally I do not care, for he has written a good sumission of the history >>>of the Treaty's creation. I care not if Graeme Spencer is part of the Altas >>>Group or any other far right group.
    Exactly, all of that is irrelevant.
    Only the facts matter and Spencer has provided those.

    Abuse removed.
    Rich totally ignored what I wrote which was to remind him to read the link, something he had obviously failed to do (or failed to comprehend), so then he became abusive.
    Sod off Rich, you are an imbecile. Your abuse will not work.

    Interesting that Dickbot simply says Spencer is wrong, not a skerrick of >>evidence provided by him or her.
    I suspect Rich is actually not a New Zealander. Even if he has paper that >>says
    he is, he really is not one in his dark mind and soul.

    Also found at
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/01/graeme-spencer-treaty-principles.html

    "Graeme Spencer is a staunch New Zealander who believes in racial equality >>>and
    one law for
    all."

    The comments are interesting. I seems as if there is an expectation that >>>that this bill does not have the support of National and thus is a dead >>>horse.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jan 11 18:16:40 2025
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 00:28:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025-01-10, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/ >>>>A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the >>>>lies
    that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?

    Personally I do not care, for he has written a good sumission of the history >>of the Treaty's creation. I care not if Graeme Spencer is part of the Altas >>Group or any other far right group.
    Exactly, all of that is irrelevant.
    Only the facts matter and Spencer has provided those.

    Here are some more for you, Tony. And it is also a fact that you have
    opinions - they are not facts however . . . I note that you never
    provide any proof of your "reckons" - is its good enough for Mike
    Hoskins or David Seymour its good enough for you - "RIGHT!" Tony?

    Interesting that Dickbot simply says Spencer is wrong, not a skerrick of >evidence provided by him or her.
    I suspect Rich is actually not a New Zealander. Even if he has paper that says >he is, he really is not one in his dark mind and soul.

    Also found at
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/01/graeme-spencer-treaty-principles.html

    "Graeme Spencer is a staunch New Zealander who believes in racial equality and
    one law for
    all."

    The comments are interesting. I seems as if there is an expectation that >>that this bill does not have the support of National and thus is a dead >>horse.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jan 11 20:04:54 2025
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 06:00:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 10 Jan 2025 22:20:30 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-01-10, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><[email protected]> wrote:
    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/ >>>>>A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the >>>>>lies
    that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do
    you know, Tony?

    Personally I do not care, for he has written a good sumission of the history >>>of the Treaty's creation. I care not if Graeme Spenser is part of the Altas >>>Group or any other far right group.

    Also found at
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/01/graeme-spencer-treaty-principles.html

    Thanks for that. The NZCPR generally follows the same ideas that the
    Atlas Network pushes, but I am not aware of them being part of that >>organisation yet. They are perhaps best known for circulating a
    document written by Sir Apirana Ngata and pretended that they did not
    know that later scholarship had shown that the understanding of
    lawyers and judges at that time has proved to be wrong, being based on
    an English version of the Treaty that differed from the version signed
    by most of the Maori Chiefs.
    That is a lie and we all know it.
    You cannot however provide any evidence in support of your wild
    assertion - or can you, Tony?



    "Graeme Spencer is a staunch New Zealander who believes in racial equality >>>and one law for
    all."
    One law for all is an attractive concept, but it must be seen
    separately from honouring contracts between different people, or
    between the Crown and particular groups - Te Tiriti o Waitangi was
    signed before there were any New Zealand laws, and abrogating a Treaty
    is not the same thing as providing one law for all.
    Another lie.


    The comments are interesting. I seems as if there is an expectation that >>>that this bill does not have the support of National and thus is a dead >>>horse.

    National are being a bit cute on this one - not in the coalition
    agreement were making the time for submissions so short, and ending
    during a holiday period, or having a very long select Committee
    process giving the ACT party centre stage to foment disunity for a
    very long time. Poor Christopher Luxon is clearly out of his depth.
    He is not, but you are.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jan 11 07:43:20 2025
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 06:00:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 10 Jan 2025 22:20:30 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025-01-10, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
    https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/11/treaty-principles-bill-submission/ >>>>>>A very thoughtful and logical one. Using historical facts instead of the >>>>>>lies
    that TPM are using.

    Sad that he got it wrong then. I do wonder who Graeme Spencer is - do >>>>> you know, Tony?

    Personally I do not care, for he has written a good sumission of the history
    of the Treaty's creation. I care not if Graeme Spenser is part of the Altas >>>>Group or any other far right group.

    Also found at
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/01/graeme-spencer-treaty-principles.html

    Thanks for that. The NZCPR generally follows the same ideas that the >>>Atlas Network pushes, but I am not aware of them being part of that >>>organisation yet. They are perhaps best known for circulating a
    document written by Sir Apirana Ngata and pretended that they did not >>>know that later scholarship had shown that the understanding of
    lawyers and judges at that time has proved to be wrong, being based on
    an English version of the Treaty that differed from the version signed
    by most of the Maori Chiefs.
    That is a lie and we all know it.
    You cannot however provide any evidence in support of your wild
    assertion - or can you, Tony?
    No assertion, just the truth.
    You, on the other hand, have not shown your garbage about the Atlas Network or Sir Apirana to be correct, you have not provided any evidence. Just "wild assertions". Using Sir Apirana's name for political lies is abominable and a disgrace, but you do that sort of thing all the time.
    So as i said. You lied. Simple really, just like you.



    "Graeme Spencer is a staunch New Zealander who believes in racial equality >>>>and one law for
    all."
    One law for all is an attractive concept, but it must be seen
    separately from honouring contracts between different people, or
    between the Crown and particular groups - Te Tiriti o Waitangi was
    signed before there were any New Zealand laws, and abrogating a Treaty
    is not the same thing as providing one law for all.
    Another lie.


    The comments are interesting. I seems as if there is an expectation that >>>>that this bill does not have the support of National and thus is a dead >>>>horse.

    National are being a bit cute on this one - not in the coalition >>>agreement were making the time for submissions so short, and ending >>>during a holiday period, or having a very long select Committee
    process giving the ACT party centre stage to foment disunity for a
    very long time. Poor Christopher Luxon is clearly out of his depth.
    He is not, but you are.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)