XPost: nz.politics

A report to the US congress https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/2024.12.04-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT-ANS.pdf
It is very long but here are some extracts pertinent to NZ.
"SOCIAL DISTANCING: The �6 feet apart� social distancing recommendation � which shut down schools and small business across the country � was arbitrary and not based on science. During closed door testimony, Dr. Fauci testified that the guidance, �sort of just appeared.�

MASK MANDATES: There was no conclusive evidence that masks effectively protected Americans from COVID-19. Public health officials flipped-flopped on the efficacy of masks without providing Americans scientific data � causing a massive uptick in public distrust.

LOCKDOWNS: Prolonged lockdowns caused immeasurable harm to not only the American economy, but also to the mental and physical health of Americans, with a particularly negative effect on younger citizens. Rather than prioritizing the protection of the most vulnerable populations, federal and state government policies forced millions of Americans to forgo crucial elements of a healthy and financially sound life."

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 19:25:07 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

A report to the US congress >https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/2024.12.04-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT-ANS.pdf
It is very long but here are some extracts pertinent to NZ.
"SOCIAL DISTANCING: The �6 feet apart� social distancing recommendation � which
shut down schools and small business across the country � was arbitrary and not
based on science. During closed door testimony, Dr. Fauci testified that the >guidance, �sort of just appeared.�

Staying out of breath range to avoid infection from infectious
diseases has been well known for over a century (eg the influenza
epidemic over 100 years ago) - but the distance apart that is
desirable varies considerably for a number of reasons. I cannot
remember what distance was recommended in New Zealand - can you Tony?,
but the precise measurement is not really important. I think some
supermarkets at one point put markings every 1.5 metres for queuing
when they decided to limit the number of people in stores at any one
time - and that may have been determined on maximising the number of
people that could do their shopping while allaying fears from those
that would not wait if they felt the distance was too small. So
arbitrary is probably fairly accurate, but Dr Fauci may well have been acknowledging that there was not forma agreement on what a minimum
distance apart should be.

MASK MANDATES: There was no conclusive evidence that masks effectively >protected Americans from COVID-19. Public health officials flipped-flopped on >the efficacy of masks without providing Americans scientific data � causing a >massive uptick in public distrust.

Of course there was no evidence that masks effectively protected
Americans from COVID-19 - and that would apply in every country. The
balance was, in every country, encouraging people to wear masks but
not to the point of making them compulsory. Many are aware that
medical workers do often wear masks as they are effective in reducing infection, and indeed many doctors still routinely ask patients to
wear masks in a waiting room. There is no conclusive scientific date
because there are so many other variables. Why do you think this
comment is of any importance, Tony?

LOCKDOWNS: Prolonged lockdowns caused immeasurable harm to not only the >American economy, but also to the mental and physical health of Americans, with
a particularly negative effect on younger citizens. Rather than prioritizing >the protection of the most vulnerable populations, federal and state government
policies forced millions of Americans to forgo crucial elements of a healthy >and financially sound life."

I guess that depends on what you think "immeasurable" means - in
reality the comment does not define either Prolonged or Immeasurable.
It is fair to say that deaths possibly caused higher levels of harm to
the mental and physical health of Americans - compared with New
Zealand the USA experienced considerably more of such harm per head of population - for example had we experienced their level of deaths we
would have had about 22,000 more covid deaths than we actually had -
that would have been a lot of harm to the mental and physical health
of New Zealanders - would you have rather we adopted their policies
and had that many more deaths, Tony?

As to whether there was a pandemic, that is what virtually every
country acknowledged it to be - and I understand that in the USA they
are still experiencing around half to two-thirds of the percentage
level of Covid illness and deaths that they were getting when it was
widely acknowledged to be a world-wide pandemic.

Was there a point to your post, Tony?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 19:25:07 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

A report to the US congress >>https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/2024.12.04-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT-ANS.pdf
It is very long but here are some extracts pertinent to NZ.
"SOCIAL DISTANCING: The �6 feet apart� social distancing recommendation � >>which
shut down schools and small business across the country � was arbitrary and >>not
based on science. During closed door testimony, Dr. Fauci testified that the >>guidance, �sort of just appeared.�

Staying out of breath range to avoid infection from infectious
diseases has been well known for over a century (eg the influenza
epidemic over 100 years ago) - but the distance apart that is
desirable varies considerably for a number of reasons. I cannot
remember what distance was recommended in New Zealand - can you Tony?,
but the precise measurement is not really important. I think some >supermarkets at one point put markings every 1.5 metres for queuing
when they decided to limit the number of people in stores at any one
time - and that may have been determined on maximising the number of
people that could do their shopping while allaying fears from those
that would not wait if they felt the distance was too small. So
arbitrary is probably fairly accurate, but Dr Fauci may well have been >acknowledging that there was not forma agreement on what a minimum
distance apart should be.

So you know better than the authors - yeah right!
You are still parroting the lies you have been taught.

MASK MANDATES: There was no conclusive evidence that masks effectively >>protected Americans from COVID-19. Public health officials flipped-flopped on >>the efficacy of masks without providing Americans scientific data � causing a >>massive uptick in public distrust.

Of course there was no evidence that masks effectively protected
Americans from COVID-19 - and that would apply in every country. The
balance was, in every country, encouraging people to wear masks but
not to the point of making them compulsory. Many are aware that
medical workers do often wear masks as they are effective in reducing >infection, and indeed many doctors still routinely ask patients to
wear masks in a waiting room. There is no conclusive scientific date
because there are so many other variables. Why do you think this
comment is of any importance, Tony?

Any English speaker understands why - do help yourself to some education in your second language.

LOCKDOWNS: Prolonged lockdowns caused immeasurable harm to not only the >>American economy, but also to the mental and physical health of Americans, >>with
a particularly negative effect on younger citizens. Rather than prioritizing >>the protection of the most vulnerable populations, federal and state >>government
policies forced millions of Americans to forgo crucial elements of a healthy >>and financially sound life."

I guess that depends on what you think "immeasurable" means - in
reality the comment does not define either Prolonged or Immeasurable.
It is fair to say that deaths possibly caused higher levels of harm to
the mental and physical health of Americans - compared with New
Zealand the USA experienced considerably more of such harm per head of >population - for example had we experienced their level of deaths we
would have had about 22,000 more covid deaths than we actually had -
that would have been a lot of harm to the mental and physical health
of New Zealanders - would you have rather we adopted their policies
and had that many more deaths, Tony?

As to whether there was a pandemic, that is what virtually every
country acknowledged it to be - and I understand that in the USA they
are still experiencing around half to two-thirds of the percentage
level of Covid illness and deaths that they were getting when it was
widely acknowledged to be a world-wide pandemic.

Was there a point to your post, Tony?

You have made the point.
Read, learn and....... time you tried it.
You really are drunk early tonight.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-01-08, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 19:25:07 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

A report to the US congress >>https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/2024.12.04-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT-ANS.pdf
It is very long but here are some extracts pertinent to NZ.
"SOCIAL DISTANCING: The “6 feet apart” social distancing recommendation — which
shut down schools and small business across the country — was arbitrary and not
based on science. During closed door testimony, Dr. Fauci testified that the >>guidance, “sort of just appeared.”

Staying out of breath range to avoid infection from infectious
diseases has been well known for over a century (eg the influenza
epidemic over 100 years ago) - but the distance apart that is
desirable varies considerably for a number of reasons.

One of them is the droplet size. Covid sized aerosols was across the room as the particles were so small. The floated on the air. This was a reason why
the masks were not effective.

I cannot
remember what distance was recommended in New Zealand

Same as every other country, 6 feet in the USA and 2m elesewhere.

- can you Tony?,
but the precise measurement is not really important. I think some supermarkets at one point put markings every 1.5 metres for queuing
when they decided to limit the number of people in stores at any one
time - and that may have been determined on maximising the number of
people that could do their shopping while allaying fears from those
that would not wait if they felt the distance was too small. So
arbitrary is probably fairly accurate,

No, the world took Fauci's distance as gospel.

but Dr Fauci may well have been
acknowledging that there was not forma agreement on what a minimum
distance apart should be.

Yeah right.

MASK MANDATES: There was no conclusive evidence that masks effectively >>protected Americans from COVID-19. Public health officials flipped-flopped on >>the efficacy of masks without providing Americans scientific data — causing a
massive uptick in public distrust.

Of course there was no evidence that masks effectively protected
Americans from COVID-19 - and that would apply in every country. The
balance was, in every country, encouraging people to wear masks but
not to the point of making them compulsory. Many are aware that
medical workers do often wear masks as they are effective in reducing infection, and indeed many doctors still routinely ask patients to
wear masks in a waiting room. There is no conclusive scientific date
because there are so many other variables. Why do you think this
comment is of any importance, Tony?

Rich, you are on a side track. The orginal comment came from a Senate Investgation on the Covid response. Not on how, or who gave/suggested the
2m/6 feet rule.

LOCKDOWNS: Prolonged lockdowns caused immeasurable harm to not only the >>American economy, but also to the mental and physical health of Americans, with
a particularly negative effect on younger citizens. Rather than prioritizing >>the protection of the most vulnerable populations, federal and state government
policies forced millions of Americans to forgo crucial elements of a healthy >>and financially sound life."

I guess that depends on what you think "immeasurable" means - in
reality the comment does not define either Prolonged or Immeasurable.
It is fair to say that deaths possibly caused higher levels of harm to
the mental and physical health of Americans - compared with New
Zealand the USA experienced considerably more of such harm per head of population - for example had we experienced their level of deaths we
would have had about 22,000 more covid deaths than we actually had -
that would have been a lot of harm to the mental and physical health
of New Zealanders - would you have rather we adopted their policies
and had that many more deaths, Tony?

As to whether there was a pandemic, that is what virtually every
country acknowledged it to be - and I understand that in the USA they
are still experiencing around half to two-thirds of the percentage
level of Covid illness and deaths that they were getting when it was
widely acknowledged to be a world-wide pandemic.

Was there a point to your post, Tony?

I would suggest that his point was to draw the readers attention to the USA report and how that it concludes that as in other countries Lockdowns were harmful overall.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 08:33:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 19:25:07 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

A report to the US congress >>>https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/2024.12.04-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT-ANS.pdf
It is very long but here are some extracts pertinent to NZ.
"SOCIAL DISTANCING: The �6 feet apart� social distancing recommendation � >>>which
shut down schools and small business across the country � was arbitrary and >>>not
based on science. During closed door testimony, Dr. Fauci testified that the >>>guidance, �sort of just appeared.�

Staying out of breath range to avoid infection from infectious
diseases has been well known for over a century (eg the influenza
epidemic over 100 years ago) - but the distance apart that is
desirable varies considerably for a number of reasons. I cannot
remember what distance was recommended in New Zealand - can you Tony?,
but the precise measurement is not really important. I think some >>supermarkets at one point put markings every 1.5 metres for queuing
when they decided to limit the number of people in stores at any one
time - and that may have been determined on maximising the number of
people that could do their shopping while allaying fears from those
that would not wait if they felt the distance was too small. So
arbitrary is probably fairly accurate, but Dr Fauci may well have been >>acknowledging that there was not forma agreement on what a minimum
distance apart should be.

So you know better than the authors - yeah right!
You are still parroting the lies you have been taught.

You really are an ignorant and unthinking twit - I was agreeing with
the statement - when Dr Fauci said that the guidance �sort of just
appeared,� I am saying he was correct - there was no meeting to decide
the distance; it probably came through an interpretation from media -
are you arguing it should be some other distance than 6 feet? Would
the world have stopped if it was 4 feet, or 8 feet, or two metres? The distancing suggestion did not shut down schools and small business
across the country here in New Zealand - perhaps that is why we had
far fewer problems than the USA - what do you think, Tony? Or do you
ever think at all?

MASK MANDATES: There was no conclusive evidence that masks effectively >>>protected Americans from COVID-19. Public health officials flipped-flopped on
the efficacy of masks without providing Americans scientific data � causing a
massive uptick in public distrust.

Of course there was no evidence that masks effectively protected
Americans from COVID-19 - and that would apply in every country. The >>balance was, in every country, encouraging people to wear masks but
not to the point of making them compulsory. Many are aware that
medical workers do often wear masks as they are effective in reducing >>infection, and indeed many doctors still routinely ask patients to
wear masks in a waiting room. There is no conclusive scientific date >>because there are so many other variables. Why do you think this
comment is of any importance, Tony?

Any English speaker understands why - do help yourself to some education in >your second language.

It was not a big issue in New Zealand - most people saw that self
interest was enough to take a simple precaution; some wore them more
than others, but it was never really much of a problem. Wearing masks
if of course an established medical practice still - if you were a
dentist I suspect you would wear them out of self-interest. Again, no
problem here Tony, except from nutters that find walking across the
road too hard for them . . .

LOCKDOWNS: Prolonged lockdowns caused immeasurable harm to not only the >>>American economy, but also to the mental and physical health of Americans, >>>with
a particularly negative effect on younger citizens. Rather than prioritizing >>>the protection of the most vulnerable populations, federal and state >>>government
policies forced millions of Americans to forgo crucial elements of a healthy >>>and financially sound life."

I guess that depends on what you think "immeasurable" means - in
reality the comment does not define either Prolonged or Immeasurable.
It is fair to say that deaths possibly caused higher levels of harm to
the mental and physical health of Americans - compared with New
Zealand the USA experienced considerably more of such harm per head of >>population - for example had we experienced their level of deaths we
would have had about 22,000 more covid deaths than we actually had -
that would have been a lot of harm to the mental and physical health
of New Zealanders - would you have rather we adopted their policies
and had that many more deaths, Tony?

As to whether there was a pandemic, that is what virtually every
country acknowledged it to be - and I understand that in the USA they
are still experiencing around half to two-thirds of the percentage
level of Covid illness and deaths that they were getting when it was
widely acknowledged to be a world-wide pandemic.

Was there a point to your post, Tony?

You have made the point.
Read, learn and....... time you tried it.
You really are drunk early tonight.

By now you will have seen another post that gives you facts on how
much better New Zealand did in avoiding deaths - it seems Covid took
you more than half-way there, Tony; I am sorry that you appear unable
to think clearly - was that just Covid or do you not really know?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 08:33:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 19:25:07 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

A report to the US congress >>>>https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/2024.12.04-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT-ANS.pdf
It is very long but here are some extracts pertinent to NZ.
"SOCIAL DISTANCING: The �6 feet apart� social distancing recommendation � >>>>which
shut down schools and small business across the country � was arbitrary and >>>>not
based on science. During closed door testimony, Dr. Fauci testified that >>>>the
guidance, �sort of just appeared.�

Staying out of breath range to avoid infection from infectious
diseases has been well known for over a century (eg the influenza >>>epidemic over 100 years ago) - but the distance apart that is
desirable varies considerably for a number of reasons. I cannot
remember what distance was recommended in New Zealand - can you Tony?, >>>but the precise measurement is not really important. I think some >>>supermarkets at one point put markings every 1.5 metres for queuing
when they decided to limit the number of people in stores at any one
time - and that may have been determined on maximising the number of >>>people that could do their shopping while allaying fears from those
that would not wait if they felt the distance was too small. So
arbitrary is probably fairly accurate, but Dr Fauci may well have been >>>acknowledging that there was not forma agreement on what a minimum >>>distance apart should be.

So you know better than the authors - yeah right!
You are still parroting the lies you have been taught.

You really are an ignorant and unthinking twit - I was agreeing with
the statement - when Dr Fauci said that the guidance �sort of just
appeared,� I am saying he was correct - there was no meeting to decide
the distance; it probably came through an interpretation from media -
are you arguing it should be some other distance than 6 feet? Would
the world have stopped if it was 4 feet, or 8 feet, or two metres? The >distancing suggestion did not shut down schools and small business
across the country here in New Zealand - perhaps that is why we had
far fewer problems than the USA - what do you think, Tony? Or do you
ever think at all?

It is you that got it wrong, not me. Grow up.

MASK MANDATES: There was no conclusive evidence that masks effectively >>>>protected Americans from COVID-19. Public health officials flipped-flopped >>>>on
the efficacy of masks without providing Americans scientific data � causing >>>>a
massive uptick in public distrust.

Of course there was no evidence that masks effectively protected >>>Americans from COVID-19 - and that would apply in every country. The >>>balance was, in every country, encouraging people to wear masks but
not to the point of making them compulsory. Many are aware that
medical workers do often wear masks as they are effective in reducing >>>infection, and indeed many doctors still routinely ask patients to
wear masks in a waiting room. There is no conclusive scientific date >>>because there are so many other variables. Why do you think this
comment is of any importance, Tony?

Any English speaker understands why - do help yourself to some education in >>your second language.

It was not a big issue in New Zealand - most people saw that self
interest was enough to take a simple precaution; some wore them more
than others, but it was never really much of a problem. Wearing masks
if of course an established medical practice still - if you were a
dentist I suspect you would wear them out of self-interest.

You don't understand how masks work, do some research.

Again, no
problem here Tony, except from nutters that find walking across the
road too hard for them . . .

I don't know why you hate people who have poor mobility but it does not suyrprise me, at all!!

LOCKDOWNS: Prolonged lockdowns caused immeasurable harm to not only the >>>>American economy, but also to the mental and physical health of Americans, >>>>with
a particularly negative effect on younger citizens. Rather than >>>>prioritizing
the protection of the most vulnerable populations, federal and state >>>>government
policies forced millions of Americans to forgo crucial elements of a >>>>healthy
and financially sound life."

I guess that depends on what you think "immeasurable" means - in
reality the comment does not define either Prolonged or Immeasurable.
It is fair to say that deaths possibly caused higher levels of harm to >>>the mental and physical health of Americans - compared with New
Zealand the USA experienced considerably more of such harm per head of >>>population - for example had we experienced their level of deaths we >>>would have had about 22,000 more covid deaths than we actually had -
that would have been a lot of harm to the mental and physical health
of New Zealanders - would you have rather we adopted their policies
and had that many more deaths, Tony?

As to whether there was a pandemic, that is what virtually every
country acknowledged it to be - and I understand that in the USA they
are still experiencing around half to two-thirds of the percentage
level of Covid illness and deaths that they were getting when it was >>>widely acknowledged to be a world-wide pandemic.

Was there a point to your post, Tony?

You have made the point.
Read, learn and....... time you tried it.
You really are drunk early tonight.

By now you will have seen another post that gives you facts on how
much better New Zealand did in avoiding deaths

Abuse gone.
Rich cannot debate, cannot think and cannot tell the truth.
Proof positive in this thread.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)