• An Electricity Innovation

    From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 9 16:25:23 2024
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767

    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching . .
    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Dec 9 03:46:30 2024
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767

    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching . .
    .

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mutley@21:1/5 to Gordon on Tue Dec 10 08:06:26 2024
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767

    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching . .
    .

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good >maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
    Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Mutley on Tue Dec 10 10:52:28 2024
    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
    Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
    simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
    best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
    home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
    power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
    solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
    amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
    (12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
    contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
    course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
    Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
    the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
    "scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
    usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 10 13:46:18 2024
    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good >>> maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
    Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be >hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
    simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
    best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
    home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
    power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
    solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive >amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
    (12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
    course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
    Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
    the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
    "scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
    usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
    the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
    necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
    Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
    the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the possibility of initiating generation other than through those
    companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
    appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
    enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
    to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
    owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
    there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
    particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 10 15:24:01 2024
    On 2024-12-10 00:46:18 +0000, Rich80105 said:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767



    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ... >>>>
    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good >>>> maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
    Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
    hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
    simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
    best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
    home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
    power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
    solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
    amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
    (12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
    contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
    course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
    Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
    the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
    "scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
    usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
    replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
    the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
    necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
    Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
    the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the possibility of initiating generation other than through those
    companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
    appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
    enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
    to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
    owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    Electricity is electricity. The fact that the companies charge more at
    "peak times" is nothing other than pure greediness, like all the
    idiotic "supply and demand" nonsense.

    Electricity (and water, and waste removeal) should be government /
    council run at minimal profit for infrastructure, not run by private
    companies simply out to fill management and shareholder pockets.



    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
    there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    Solar power isn't efficient. It is also nowhere near as good for the environment as the blinkered Greenies like to believe - the making and
    disposal of the solar panels is highly polluting, let alone the
    batteries to store that energy for when it needed at night.

    Similarly with all the other ill-thought-out Greenie ideas such as
    silly wind turbines, wave turbines, etc. which are a huge visual
    pollution issue as well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Your Name on Tue Dec 10 02:50:37 2024
    Your Name <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-10 00:46:18 +0000, Rich80105 said:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767



    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ... >>>>>
    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the >>>>> existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good >>>>> maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
    Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into >>>> the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
    hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
    simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
    best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
    home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
    power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
    solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
    amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
    (12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
    contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
    course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
    Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
    the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
    "scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
    usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
    replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
    the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
    necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
    Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
    the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
    possibility of initiating generation other than through those
    companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
    appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
    enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
    to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
    owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    Electricity is electricity. The fact that the companies charge more at
    "peak times" is nothing other than pure greediness, like all the
    idiotic "supply and demand" nonsense.

    Electricity (and water, and waste removeal) should be government /
    council run at minimal profit for infrastructure, not run by private >companies simply out to fill management and shareholder pockets.



    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
    there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
    highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
    particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    Solar power isn't efficient. It is also nowhere near as good for the >environment as the blinkered Greenies like to believe - the making and >disposal of the solar panels is highly polluting, let alone the
    batteries to store that energy for when it needed at night.

    Similarly with all the other ill-thought-out Greenie ideas such as
    silly wind turbines, wave turbines, etc. which are a huge visual
    pollution issue as well.
    Well said. All thinking people would agree I believe. Wind turbine blades have a limited life also and are currntly hard to repurpose.
    So-called green electricity is a myth until there are some major scientuific developments.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mutley@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Dec 11 13:45:16 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ... >>>>
    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good >>>> maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
    Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be >>hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
    best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
    home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the >>power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
    solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive >>amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
    (12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
    the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
    "scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
    usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
    the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
    necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
    Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
    the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >possibility of initiating generation other than through those
    companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
    appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
    enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
    to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
    owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
    there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
    Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
    leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
    there.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 11 16:06:48 2024
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ... >>>>>
    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the >>>>> existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good >>>>> maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
    Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into >>>> the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be >>>hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at >>>best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the >>>home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the >>>power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
    solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive >>>amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
    the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
    the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
    necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
    the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>possibility of initiating generation other than through those
    companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
    appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
    enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
    to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
    owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
    there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
    Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
    there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
    governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
    huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 11 19:42:22 2024
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ... >>>>>>
    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the >>>>>> existing installed places. The details from an independent person. >>>>>>
    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good >>>>>> maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
    Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into >>>>> the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be >>>>hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>>>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at >>>>best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the >>>>home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the >>>>power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they >>>>> are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell >>>>> back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive >>>>amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>>>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
    the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
    necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
    the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those
    companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
    enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
    to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
    owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
    there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
    there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
    huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
    reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
    priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
    out Rich.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 11 22:49:25 2024
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ... >>>>>>>
    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the >>>>>>> existing installed places. The details from an independent person. >>>>>>>
    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with >>>>>> enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into >>>>>> the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at >>>>>> least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be >>>>>hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>>>>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at >>>>>best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the >>>>>home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the >>>>>power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they >>>>>> are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell >>>>>> back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive >>>>>amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>>>>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
    enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely >>>>to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
    owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>>>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
    there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
    huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
    reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
    priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
    out Rich.

    Yes they were, and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
    itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
    normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
    the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
    sanctity of contract, the current government could just pass a law to
    purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
    you agree with such an action, Crash?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Dec 11 18:36:46 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]> >>>wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the >>>>>>>> existing installed places. The details from an independent person. >>>>>>>>
    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all >>>>>>>>good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with >>>>>>> enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into >>>>>>> the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at >>>>>>> least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be >>>>>>hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>>>>>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at >>>>>>best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the >>>>>>home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the >>>>>>power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they >>>>>>> are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell >>>>>>> back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive >>>>>>amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>>>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>>>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>>>>>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that >>>>>enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely >>>>>to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle >>>>>owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>>>>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
    there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a >>>huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
    reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
    priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
    out Rich.

    Yes they were,
    No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
    and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
    itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
    normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
    the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of >sanctity of contract
    That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of evidence. You are desparate.
    , the current government could just pass a law to
    purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
    you agree with such an action, Crash?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Dec 12 08:09:52 2024
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the >>>>>>>>> existing installed places. The details from an independent person. >>>>>>>>>
    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all >>>>>>>>>good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a >>>>>>>> partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with >>>>>>>> enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into >>>>>>>> the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at >>>>>>>> least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be >>>>>>>hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>>>>>>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at >>>>>>>best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the >>>>>>>home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the >>>>>>>power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they >>>>>>>> are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell >>>>>>>> back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive >>>>>>>amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>>>>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>>>>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>>>>>>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that >>>>>>enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely >>>>>>to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle >>>>>>owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>>>>>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being >>>>>there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>>>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a >>>>huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not >>>reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
    priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
    out Rich.

    Yes they were,
    No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
    and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
    itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
    normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
    the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of >>sanctity of contract
    That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of >evidence. You are desparate.

    Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting
    politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
    in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more
    rational to say.

    , the current government could just pass a law to
    purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
    you agree with such an action, Crash?


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 08:05:53 2024
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 22:49:25 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]> >>>wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the >>>>>>>> existing installed places. The details from an independent person. >>>>>>>>
    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
    partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with >>>>>>> enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into >>>>>>> the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at >>>>>>> least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be >>>>>>hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>>>>>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at >>>>>>best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the >>>>>>home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the >>>>>>power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they >>>>>>> are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell >>>>>>> back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive >>>>>>amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>>>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>>>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>>>>>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that >>>>>enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely >>>>>to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle >>>>>owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>>>>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
    there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a >>>huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
    reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
    priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
    out Rich.

    Yes they were, and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.

    My point is that Labour had the opportunity to modify or repeal the
    reforms made by National. Your response is weak to the point of not
    addressing what actually I posted.

    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
    itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
    normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
    the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of >sanctity of contract, the current government could just pass a law to >purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
    you agree with such an action, Crash?

    Yet again you resort to political tirade masquerading as a question.

    Labour has not, and does not have any policy to reform how mains
    electricity is supplied in NZ. That is because they do not see it as
    an issue as you do. Have you tried to get remits through the Labour
    Party structure on this Rich? If you or someone else has done so and
    failed, perhaps there is a message there.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Dec 12 02:49:51 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:09:52 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching >>>>>>>>>>>>...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person. >>>>>>>>>>>
    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all >>>>>>>>>>>good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a >>>>>>>>>> partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with >>>>>>>>>> enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back >>>>>>>>>>into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at >>>>>>>>>> least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to >>>>>>>>>be
    hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>>>>>>>>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at >>>>>>>>>best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the >>>>>>>>>home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, >>>>>>>>>the
    power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they >>>>>>>>>> are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell >>>>>>>>>> back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out >>>>>>>>>massive
    amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>>>>>>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>>>>>>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>>>>>>>>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>>>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>>>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>>>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>>>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>>>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>>>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>>>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that >>>>>>>>enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely >>>>>>>>to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle >>>>>>>>owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge. >>>>>>>>
    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>>>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>>>>>>>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>>>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>>>>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>>>>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being >>>>>>>there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>>>>>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a >>>>>>huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not >>>>>reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing, >>>>>priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make >>>>>out Rich.

    Yes they were,
    No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
    and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends >>>>itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than >>>>normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government, >>>>the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of >>>>sanctity of contract
    That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of >>>evidence. You are desparate.

    Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting >>politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
    in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more >>rational to say.

    So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
    Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were
    protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
    them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
    contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
    this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
    bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
    extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
    periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
    picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
    bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
    Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
    the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to
    directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
    to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.
    You have posted political rhetoric. Nothing of substance.



    , the current government could just pass a law to
    purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would >>>>you agree with such an action, Crash?

    While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
    breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
    do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
    their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting
    contractual obligations . . .
    Can you even spell the word logic? You certainly don't understand what it means. That paragraph is bereft of logic, common snse and even the English is poor.
    Apsrt from that it is just wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 15:37:08 2024
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:09:52 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the >>>>>>>>>> existing installed places. The details from an independent person. >>>>>>>>>>
    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all >>>>>>>>>>good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a >>>>>>>>> partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with >>>>>>>>> enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at >>>>>>>>> least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be >>>>>>>>hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>>>>>>>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at >>>>>>>>best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the >>>>>>>>home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the >>>>>>>>power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they >>>>>>>>> are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell >>>>>>>>> back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive >>>>>>>>amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>>>>>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>>>>>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>>>>>>>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that >>>>>>>enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely >>>>>>>to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle >>>>>>>owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>>>>>>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>>>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>>>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being >>>>>>there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>>>>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a >>>>>huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not >>>>reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing, >>>>priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make >>>>out Rich.

    Yes they were,
    No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
    and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
    itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than >>>normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
    the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of >>>sanctity of contract
    That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of >>evidence. You are desparate.

    Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting
    politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
    in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more >rational to say.

    So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
    Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were
    protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
    them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
    contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
    this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
    bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
    extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
    periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
    picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
    bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
    Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
    the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to
    directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
    to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.



    , the current government could just pass a law to
    purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
    you agree with such an action, Crash?

    While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
    breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
    do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
    their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting
    contractual obligations . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 20:44:24 2024
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:37:08 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:09:52 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person. >>>>>>>>>>>
    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all >>>>>>>>>>>good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a >>>>>>>>>> partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with >>>>>>>>>> enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at >>>>>>>>>> least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
    hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies >>>>>>>>>simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at >>>>>>>>>best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the >>>>>>>>>home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
    power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they >>>>>>>>>> are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell >>>>>>>>>> back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
    amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>>>>>>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>>>>>>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up. >>>>>>>>>Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>>>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>>>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>>>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>>>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>>>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>>>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>>>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that >>>>>>>>enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely >>>>>>>>to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle >>>>>>>>owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge. >>>>>>>>
    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>>>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>>>>>>>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>>>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>>>>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>>>>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being >>>>>>>there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>>>>>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a >>>>>>huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not >>>>>reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing, >>>>>priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make >>>>>out Rich.

    Yes they were,
    No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
    and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends >>>>itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than >>>>normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government, >>>>the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of >>>>sanctity of contract
    That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of >>>evidence. You are desparate.

    Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting >>politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
    in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more >>rational to say.

    So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
    Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were
    protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
    them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
    contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
    this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
    bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
    extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
    periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
    picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
    bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
    Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
    the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to
    directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
    to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.

    Nonsense repeated is still nonsense. Yes the Hikoi was an impressive gathering, but a drop in the bucket when compared to how many voters
    we have. The rest of your tirade is aimed at party policies enshrined
    in coalition agreements.

    While you quibble about National agreeing to the Treaty Principles
    bill, your predictions that the Select Committee process will cause
    further dissent is politically-motivated rhetoric. Most bills go
    through a 6-month Select Committee process which goes largely
    unreported by media organisations. Submissions close January. Some
    submitters will garner some media coverage after that but so what.

    The Treaty was signed 184 years ago. The Maori Health Authority was
    formed by the last Labour Government so any assertion it was to do
    with the ToW is irrational.



    , the current government could just pass a law to
    purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would >>>>you agree with such an action, Crash?

    While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
    breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
    do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
    their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting
    contractual obligations . . .

    Why respond to yourself Rich? I made no comment about share
    repurchases.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Dec 12 20:45:13 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 20:44:24 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:37:08 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:09:52 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in >>>>>>>>>>>>>the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>>all
    good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>>>>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a >>>>>>>>>>>> partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back >>>>>>>>>>>>into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to >>>>>>>>>>>be
    hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power >>>>>>>>>>>companies
    simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and >>>>>>>>>>>at
    best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth >>>>>>>>>>>the
    home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, >>>>>>>>>>>the
    power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>>>>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume >>>>>>>>>>>>they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they >>>>>>>>>>>>sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out >>>>>>>>>>>massive
    amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>>>>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a >>>>>>>>>>>new
    contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. >>>>>>>>>>>Of
    course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone >>>>>>>>>>>up.
    Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>>>>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>>>>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>>>>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>>>>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>>>>>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>>>>>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>>>>>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>>>>>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>>>>>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>>>>>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>>>>>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that >>>>>>>>>>enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
    to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle >>>>>>>>>>owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge. >>>>>>>>>>
    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>>>>>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
    highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>>>>>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>>>>>>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>>>>>>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being >>>>>>>>>there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>>>>>>>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a >>>>>>>>huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not >>>>>>>reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing, >>>>>>>priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make >>>>>>>out Rich.

    Yes they were,
    No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
    and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends >>>>>>itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than >>>>>>normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government, >>>>>>the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of >>>>>>sanctity of contract
    That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred >>>>>of
    evidence. You are desparate.

    Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting >>>>politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
    in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more >>>>rational to say.

    So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
    Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were >>>protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
    them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important >>>contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that >>>this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the >>>bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
    extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to >>>periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be >>>picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and >>>bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
    Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under >>>the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to >>>directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
    to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.

    Nonsense repeated is still nonsense. Yes the Hikoi was an impressive >>gathering, but a drop in the bucket when compared to how many voters
    we have. The rest of your tirade is aimed at party policies enshrined
    in coalition agreements.
    The Hikoi was not just the gathering in Wellington - in each town or
    city it passed, from North and South of Wellington, many others joined
    for that day - and of course many that would have liked to participate
    were working or unable to get there. It certainly dwarfed the NZ
    Taxpayer Union protests like Groundswell, and any other right wing
    protest of the past.
    The TPU is not right wing and they did not organise Groundswell - geez you are desparate.

    So where in the coalition agreement is enshrined getting rid of the
    Maori Health organisation? Where in the coalition agreement is a long
    period before report back from the select Committee to enable Seymour
    to peddle ACT's racist and divisive views? And what does it tell you
    about Luxon that National is seen to be supporting the racist tactics
    of ACT?
    ACT is not divisive (exactyly the opposite), you are divisive (racist) and so is TPM and so was the Hikoi.


    While you quibble about National agreeing to the Treaty Principles
    bill, your predictions that the Select Committee process will cause
    further dissent is politically-motivated rhetoric. Most bills go
    through a 6-month Select Committee process which goes largely
    unreported by media organisations. Submissions close January. Some >>submitters will garner some media coverage after that but so what.

    The Treaty was signed 184 years ago. The Maori Health Authority was
    formed by the last Labour Government so any assertion it was to do
    with the ToW is irrational.



    , the current government could just pass a law to
    purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would >>>>>>you agree with such an action, Crash?

    While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
    breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
    do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
    their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting >>>contractual obligations . . .

    Why respond to yourself Rich? I made no comment about share
    repurchases.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 13 09:30:25 2024
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 20:44:24 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:37:08 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:09:52 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]> >>>>>>>wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all
    good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>>>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a >>>>>>>>>>> partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with >>>>>>>>>>> enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn�t have to pay a power bill for at >>>>>>>>>>> least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
    hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
    simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
    best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
    home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
    power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>>>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
    amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>>>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new >>>>>>>>>>contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of >>>>>>>>>>course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
    Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>>>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>>>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>>>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>>>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>>>>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>>>>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>>>>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>>>>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>>>>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>>>>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>>>>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that >>>>>>>>>enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely >>>>>>>>>to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle >>>>>>>>>owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge. >>>>>>>>>
    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>>>>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it >>>>>>>>>highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>>>>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>>>>>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>>>>>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being >>>>>>>>there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>>>>>>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a >>>>>>>huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not >>>>>>reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing, >>>>>>priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make >>>>>>out Rich.

    Yes they were,
    No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
    and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends >>>>>itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than >>>>>normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government, >>>>>the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of >>>>>sanctity of contract
    That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of >>>>evidence. You are desparate.

    Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting >>>politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
    in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more >>>rational to say.

    So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
    Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were >>protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
    them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
    contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
    this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
    bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
    extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
    periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
    picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
    bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
    Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
    the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to >>directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
    to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.

    Nonsense repeated is still nonsense. Yes the Hikoi was an impressive >gathering, but a drop in the bucket when compared to how many voters
    we have. The rest of your tirade is aimed at party policies enshrined
    in coalition agreements.
    The Hikoi was not just the gathering in Wellington - in each town or
    city it passed, from North and South of Wellington, many others joined
    for that day - and of course many that would have liked to participate
    were working or unable to get there. It certainly dwarfed the NZ
    Taxpayer Union protests like Groundswell, and any other right wing
    protest of the past.

    So where in the coalition agreement is enshrined getting rid of the
    Maori Health organisation? Where in the coalition agreement is a long
    period before report back from the select Committee to enable Seymour
    to peddle ACT's racist and divisive views? And what does it tell you
    about Luxon that National is seen to be supporting the racist tactics
    of ACT?


    While you quibble about National agreeing to the Treaty Principles
    bill, your predictions that the Select Committee process will cause
    further dissent is politically-motivated rhetoric. Most bills go
    through a 6-month Select Committee process which goes largely
    unreported by media organisations. Submissions close January. Some >submitters will garner some media coverage after that but so what.

    The Treaty was signed 184 years ago. The Maori Health Authority was
    formed by the last Labour Government so any assertion it was to do
    with the ToW is irrational.



    , the current government could just pass a law to
    purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would >>>>>you agree with such an action, Crash?

    While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
    breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
    do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
    their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting >>contractual obligations . . .

    Why respond to yourself Rich? I made no comment about share
    repurchases.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Dec 13 07:46:37 2024
    On 2024-12-12, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 20:44:24 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:37:08 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:09:52 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:42:22 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:06:48 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 13:45:16 +1300, Mutley <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:52:28 +1300, Your Name <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:

    On 2024-12-09 19:06:26 +0000, Mutley said:
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-12-09, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767


    This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...

    This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
    existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

    Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all
    good
    maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.

    ",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel >>>>>>>>>>>> Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a >>>>>>>>>>>> partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
    enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
    the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
    least five years."

    Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
    hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
    simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
    best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
    home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
    power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical >>>>>>>>>>>solar system pays for itself "within seven years".



    That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
    are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
    back.
    Yes what happens after 5 years??

    After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
    amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter >>>>>>>>>>>(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
    contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
    course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
    Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see >>>>>>>>>>>the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their >>>>>>>>>>>"scheme" didn't work!

    Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners >>>>>>>>>>>usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance / >>>>>>>>>>>replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.


    You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by >>>>>>>>>>the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than >>>>>>>>>>necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National >>>>>>>>>>Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to >>>>>>>>>>the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the >>>>>>>>>>possibility of initiating generation other than through those >>>>>>>>>>companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link >>>>>>>>>>appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that >>>>>>>>>>enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
    to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle >>>>>>>>>>owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge. >>>>>>>>>>
    The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system >>>>>>>>>>there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
    highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for >>>>>>>>>>particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.

    And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these >>>>>>>>>Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise >>>>>>>>>leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being >>>>>>>>>there.

    You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite >>>>>>>>governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a >>>>>>>>huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?

    I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not >>>>>>>reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing, >>>>>>>priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make >>>>>>>out Rich.

    Yes they were,
    No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
    and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
    The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends >>>>>>itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than >>>>>>normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government, >>>>>>the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

    Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of >>>>>>sanctity of contract
    That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of
    evidence. You are desparate.

    Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting >>>>politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
    in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more >>>>rational to say.

    So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
    Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were >>>protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
    them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important >>>contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that >>>this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the >>>bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
    extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to >>>periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be >>>picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and >>>bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
    Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under >>>the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to >>>directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
    to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.

    Nonsense repeated is still nonsense. Yes the Hikoi was an impressive >>gathering, but a drop in the bucket when compared to how many voters
    we have. The rest of your tirade is aimed at party policies enshrined
    in coalition agreements.
    The Hikoi was not just the gathering in Wellington - in each town or
    city it passed, from North and South of Wellington, many others joined
    for that day - and of course many that would have liked to participate
    were working or unable to get there. It certainly dwarfed the NZ
    Taxpayer Union protests like Groundswell, and any other right wing
    protest of the past.

    So where in the coalition agreement is enshrined getting rid of the
    Maori Health organisation?

    It does not metion this as it would be racist fuel. The National Coalition considers that all sections of NZ are equal. Now there might well be some adjustments within the one size fits all, but the Labour side wants the woke vision for New Zealand which the majority of the people do not want.

    Where in the coalition agreement is a long
    period before report back from the select Committee to enable Seymour
    to peddle ACT's racist and divisive views?

    In the left's misunderstanting of the situation.


    And what does it tell you
    about Luxon that National is seen to be supporting the racist tactics
    of ACT?

    Not by the majority of the country.




    While you quibble about National agreeing to the Treaty Principles
    bill, your predictions that the Select Committee process will cause
    further dissent is politically-motivated rhetoric. Most bills go
    through a 6-month Select Committee process which goes largely
    unreported by media organisations. Submissions close January. Some >>submitters will garner some media coverage after that but so what.

    The Treaty was signed 184 years ago. The Maori Health Authority was
    formed by the last Labour Government so any assertion it was to do
    with the ToW is irrational.



    , the current government could just pass a law to
    purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would >>>>>>you agree with such an action, Crash?

    While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
    breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
    do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
    their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting >>>contractual obligations . . .

    Why respond to yourself Rich? I made no comment about share
    repurchases.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)