• Is Luxon lying, incompetent, or hiding agreements with ACT?

    From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 19 18:24:02 2024
    From Stuff:

    'No risk of civil war in NZ,' Luxon says

    Labour leader Chris Hipkins has challenged Prime Minister Christopher
    Luxon in the House on his support for the Treaty Principles Bill to
    first reading, asking if he agreed with former prime minister Dame
    Jenny Shipley's warning that politicizing the Treaty could "invite
    civil war".

    Luxon firmly rejected the claim, responding, "No, we are not at risk
    of civil war in New Zealand. That is inflammatory language."

    Hipkins pressed further, questioning why the Government had directed a
    select committee to spend the next six months on the issue, to which
    Luxon responded, "Because it is part of our coalition agreement."

    Hipkins then accused the Government of putting political interests
    ahead of the country, reiterating Shipley's warning: "This sort of
    malicious, politically-motivated, fundraising-motivated attempt to
    politicize the Treaty in a new way should raise people�s voices,
    because it is not in New Zealand�s immediate interest."

    Luxon rejected the accusation, stating, "I don't believe it's linked
    to fundraising."

    Now the coalition agreement is able to be seen on the3. National Party
    website, and it does not say that the select committee must get six
    months on the issue - so the question is whether Luxon is lying,
    incompetent, or hiding details of his cave-in to ACT.

    Tough call, but I think he should get the benefit of the doubt and
    that the likely answer is incompetence . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Nov 19 06:21:47 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    From Stuff:

    'No risk of civil war in NZ,' Luxon says

    Labour leader Chris Hipkins has challenged Prime Minister Christopher
    Luxon in the House on his support for the Treaty Principles Bill to
    first reading, asking if he agreed with former prime minister Dame
    Jenny Shipley's warning that politicizing the Treaty could "invite
    civil war".

    Luxon firmly rejected the claim, responding, "No, we are not at risk
    of civil war in New Zealand. That is inflammatory language."

    Hipkins pressed further, questioning why the Government had directed a
    select committee to spend the next six months on the issue, to which
    Luxon responded, "Because it is part of our coalition agreement."

    Hipkins then accused the Government of putting political interests
    ahead of the country, reiterating Shipley's warning: "This sort of
    malicious, politically-motivated, fundraising-motivated attempt to
    politicize the Treaty in a new way should raise people�s voices,
    because it is not in New Zealand�s immediate interest."

    Luxon rejected the accusation, stating, "I don't believe it's linked
    to fundraising."

    Now the coalition agreement is able to be seen on the3. National Party >website, and it does not say that the select committee must get six
    months on the issue - so the question is whether Luxon is lying,
    incompetent, or hiding details of his cave-in to ACT.

    Tough call, but I think he should get the benefit of the doubt and
    that the likely answer is incompetence . . .
    The answer is neither, you are just desperate.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 19 19:59:07 2024
    On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 18:24:02 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    From Stuff:

    'No risk of civil war in NZ,' Luxon says

    Labour leader Chris Hipkins has challenged Prime Minister Christopher
    Luxon in the House on his support for the Treaty Principles Bill to
    first reading, asking if he agreed with former prime minister Dame
    Jenny Shipley's warning that politicizing the Treaty could "invite
    civil war".

    Luxon firmly rejected the claim, responding, "No, we are not at risk
    of civil war in New Zealand. That is inflammatory language."

    Hipkins pressed further, questioning why the Government had directed a
    select committee to spend the next six months on the issue, to which
    Luxon responded, "Because it is part of our coalition agreement."

    Hipkins then accused the Government of putting political interests
    ahead of the country, reiterating Shipley's warning: "This sort of
    malicious, politically-motivated, fundraising-motivated attempt to
    politicize the Treaty in a new way should raise people�s voices,
    because it is not in New Zealand�s immediate interest."

    Luxon rejected the accusation, stating, "I don't believe it's linked
    to fundraising."

    Now the coalition agreement is able to be seen on the3. National Party >website, and it does not say that the select committee must get six
    months on the issue - so the question is whether Luxon is lying,
    incompetent, or hiding details of his cave-in to ACT.

    Tough call, but I think he should get the benefit of the doubt and
    that the likely answer is incompetence . . .

    Rich - you are posting nonsense. Your predecessor was one-eyed and
    stooped low on occasion but never this low. Your whole post is pure
    conjecture that has no skerrick of logic or fact.

    Luxon is a political novice - that much is true - but he is making a
    better fist of it with the coalition partners he had thrust on him by
    the electorate. Hipkins on the other hand was in a hopeless position
    when he was appointed PM by Labour - his 'policy bonfire' could not
    include the political poison his predecessor had legislated before he
    took over.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Nov 19 21:10:54 2024
    On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 06:21:47 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    From Stuff:

    'No risk of civil war in NZ,' Luxon says

    Labour leader Chris Hipkins has challenged Prime Minister Christopher
    Luxon in the House on his support for the Treaty Principles Bill to
    first reading, asking if he agreed with former prime minister Dame
    Jenny Shipley's warning that politicizing the Treaty could "invite
    civil war".

    Luxon firmly rejected the claim, responding, "No, we are not at risk
    of civil war in New Zealand. That is inflammatory language."

    Hipkins pressed further, questioning why the Government had directed a >>select committee to spend the next six months on the issue, to which
    Luxon responded, "Because it is part of our coalition agreement."

    Hipkins then accused the Government of putting political interests
    ahead of the country, reiterating Shipley's warning: "This sort of >>malicious, politically-motivated, fundraising-motivated attempt to >>politicize the Treaty in a new way should raise people�s voices,
    because it is not in New Zealand�s immediate interest."

    Luxon rejected the accusation, stating, "I don't believe it's linked
    to fundraising."

    Now the coalition agreement is able to be seen on the3. National Party >>website, and it does not say that the select committee must get six
    months on the issue - so the question is whether Luxon is lying, >>incompetent, or hiding details of his cave-in to ACT.

    Tough call, but I think he should get the benefit of the doubt and
    that the likely answer is incompetence . . .
    The answer is neither, you are just desperate.
    There are three options - which one did you leave in play, tony?

    Certainly many (probably including David Seymour) appear to believe
    that all three are true . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Nov 19 08:15:14 2024
    On 2024-11-19, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    From Stuff:

    'No risk of civil war in NZ,' Luxon says

    Labour leader Chris Hipkins has challenged Prime Minister Christopher
    Luxon in the House on his support for the Treaty Principles Bill to
    first reading, asking if he agreed with former prime minister Dame
    Jenny Shipley's warning that politicizing the Treaty could "invite
    civil war".

    Luxon firmly rejected the claim, responding, "No, we are not at risk
    of civil war in New Zealand. That is inflammatory language."

    Hipkins pressed further, questioning why the Government had directed a
    select committee to spend the next six months on the issue, to which
    Luxon responded, "Because it is part of our coalition agreement."

    It is also part of democracy. ACT had this in its menafesto, it got into the coalition. Not it has/is being done.

    The procedures are being followed, tossing them aside is starting on the slippery slope.

    This grievance is not going to go away, it needs to be addressed now.







    Hipkins then accused the Government of putting political interests
    ahead of the country, reiterating Shipley's warning: "This sort of
    malicious, politically-motivated, fundraising-motivated attempt to
    politicize the Treaty in a new way should raise people’s voices,
    because it is not in New Zealand’s immediate interest."

    Luxon rejected the accusation, stating, "I don't believe it's linked
    to fundraising."

    Now the coalition agreement is able to be seen on the3. National Party website, and it does not say that the select committee must get six
    months on the issue - so the question is whether Luxon is lying,
    incompetent, or hiding details of his cave-in to ACT.

    Tough call, but I think he should get the benefit of the doubt and
    that the likely answer is incompetence . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Gordon on Tue Nov 19 21:36:03 2024
    On 19 Nov 2024 08:15:14 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-11-19, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    From Stuff:

    'No risk of civil war in NZ,' Luxon says

    Labour leader Chris Hipkins has challenged Prime Minister Christopher
    Luxon in the House on his support for the Treaty Principles Bill to
    first reading, asking if he agreed with former prime minister Dame
    Jenny Shipley's warning that politicizing the Treaty could "invite
    civil war".

    Luxon firmly rejected the claim, responding, "No, we are not at risk
    of civil war in New Zealand. That is inflammatory language."

    Hipkins pressed further, questioning why the Government had directed a
    select committee to spend the next six months on the issue, to which
    Luxon responded, "Because it is part of our coalition agreement."

    It is also part of democracy. ACT had this in its menafesto, it got into the >coalition. Not it has/is being done.

    The procedures are being followed, tossing them aside is starting on the >slippery slope.

    The six month sitting of the select committee may be in an ACT
    manifesto, but it was not in the coalition agreement published by the
    National Party, despite Luxon claiming that he has agreed to it
    because it was. Very few bills need six months before they are either
    passed or abandoned - this is merely a way in which Seymour can ignore
    the wishes of a large majority of parliamentarians and of the public
    to foment dissent in the hope that by following that part of Trumps
    policies he may get a boost in votes for the next election. Why Luxon
    is damaging the reputation of the National Party is not at all clear.


    This grievance is not going to go away, it needs to be addressed now.

    Grievances for actions contrary to the treaty have taken many many
    years, and not all are yet resolved. Somebody claimed that the total
    redress under those claims where wrings have been acknowledged is less
    than the current government gifted to landlords in a tax change.







    Hipkins then accused the Government of putting political interests
    ahead of the country, reiterating Shipley's warning: "This sort of
    malicious, politically-motivated, fundraising-motivated attempt to
    politicize the Treaty in a new way should raise people?s voices,
    because it is not in New Zealand?s immediate interest."

    Luxon rejected the accusation, stating, "I don't believe it's linked
    to fundraising."

    Now the coalition agreement is able to be seen on the3. National Party
    website, and it does not say that the select committee must get six
    months on the issue - so the question is whether Luxon is lying,
    incompetent, or hiding details of his cave-in to ACT.

    Tough call, but I think he should get the benefit of the doubt and
    that the likely answer is incompetence . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 20 08:01:23 2024
    On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 21:36:03 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 19 Nov 2024 08:15:14 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-11-19, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    From Stuff:

    'No risk of civil war in NZ,' Luxon says

    Labour leader Chris Hipkins has challenged Prime Minister Christopher
    Luxon in the House on his support for the Treaty Principles Bill to
    first reading, asking if he agreed with former prime minister Dame
    Jenny Shipley's warning that politicizing the Treaty could "invite
    civil war".

    Luxon firmly rejected the claim, responding, "No, we are not at risk
    of civil war in New Zealand. That is inflammatory language."

    Hipkins pressed further, questioning why the Government had directed a
    select committee to spend the next six months on the issue, to which
    Luxon responded, "Because it is part of our coalition agreement."

    It is also part of democracy. ACT had this in its menafesto, it got into the >>coalition. Not it has/is being done.

    The procedures are being followed, tossing them aside is starting on the >>slippery slope.

    The six month sitting of the select committee may be in an ACT
    manifesto, but it was not in the coalition agreement published by the >National Party, despite Luxon claiming that he has agreed to it
    because it was. Very few bills need six months before they are either
    passed or abandoned - this is merely a way in which Seymour can ignore
    the wishes of a large majority of parliamentarians and of the public
    to foment dissent in the hope that by following that part of Trumps
    policies he may get a boost in votes for the next election. Why Luxon
    is damaging the reputation of the National Party is not at all clear.

    Submissions close January 7th 2025. To all intents and purposes what
    happens after that is irrelevant as the Bill will be voted down at 2nd
    reading no matter what the Select Committee comes up with. There may
    be some useful material that comes to light if any political party
    wants to revisit this issue in the future. National certainly will
    not - they don't have the courage to do this.


    This grievance is not going to go away, it needs to be addressed now.

    Grievances for actions contrary to the treaty have taken many many
    years, and not all are yet resolved. Somebody claimed that the total
    redress under those claims where wrings have been acknowledged is less
    than the current government gifted to landlords in a tax change.

    Who was that somebody? Returning to the status quo of before the last
    Labour government imposed a targeted tax surcharge on landlords is not
    a gift but putting right an injustice.








    Hipkins then accused the Government of putting political interests
    ahead of the country, reiterating Shipley's warning: "This sort of
    malicious, politically-motivated, fundraising-motivated attempt to
    politicize the Treaty in a new way should raise people?s voices,
    because it is not in New Zealand?s immediate interest."

    Luxon rejected the accusation, stating, "I don't believe it's linked
    to fundraising."

    Now the coalition agreement is able to be seen on the3. National Party
    website, and it does not say that the select committee must get six
    months on the issue - so the question is whether Luxon is lying,
    incompetent, or hiding details of his cave-in to ACT.

    Tough call, but I think he should get the benefit of the doubt and
    that the likely answer is incompetence . . .


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Nov 19 19:56:56 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 19 Nov 2024 08:15:14 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-11-19, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    From Stuff:

    'No risk of civil war in NZ,' Luxon says

    Labour leader Chris Hipkins has challenged Prime Minister Christopher
    Luxon in the House on his support for the Treaty Principles Bill to
    first reading, asking if he agreed with former prime minister Dame
    Jenny Shipley's warning that politicizing the Treaty could "invite
    civil war".

    Luxon firmly rejected the claim, responding, "No, we are not at risk
    of civil war in New Zealand. That is inflammatory language."

    Hipkins pressed further, questioning why the Government had directed a
    select committee to spend the next six months on the issue, to which
    Luxon responded, "Because it is part of our coalition agreement."

    It is also part of democracy. ACT had this in its menafesto, it got into the >>coalition. Not it has/is being done.

    The procedures are being followed, tossing them aside is starting on the >>slippery slope.

    The six month sitting of the select committee may be in an ACT
    manifesto, but it was not in the coalition agreement published by the >National Party, despite Luxon claiming that he has agreed to it
    because it was. Very few bills need six months before they are either
    passed or abandoned - this is merely a way in which Seymour can ignore
    the wishes of a large majority of parliamentarians and of the public
    to foment dissent in the hope that by following that part of Trumps
    policies he may get a boost in votes for the next election. Why Luxon
    is damaging the reputation of the National Party is not at all clear.
    That is not what he is doing, he is honouring an agreement. Simple really.


    This grievance is not going to go away, it needs to be addressed now.

    Grievances for actions contrary to the treaty have taken many many
    years, and not all are yet resolved. Somebody claimed that the total
    redress under those claims where wrings have been acknowledged is less
    than the current government gifted to landlords in a tax change.
    Somebody is an idiot then.







    Hipkins then accused the Government of putting political interests
    ahead of the country, reiterating Shipley's warning: "This sort of
    malicious, politically-motivated, fundraising-motivated attempt to
    politicize the Treaty in a new way should raise people?s voices,
    because it is not in New Zealand?s immediate interest."

    Luxon rejected the accusation, stating, "I don't believe it's linked
    to fundraising."

    Now the coalition agreement is able to be seen on the3. National Party
    website, and it does not say that the select committee must get six
    months on the issue - so the question is whether Luxon is lying,
    incompetent, or hiding details of his cave-in to ACT.

    Tough call, but I think he should get the benefit of the doubt and
    that the likely answer is incompetence . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Nov 19 19:54:44 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 06:21:47 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    From Stuff:

    'No risk of civil war in NZ,' Luxon says

    Labour leader Chris Hipkins has challenged Prime Minister Christopher >>>Luxon in the House on his support for the Treaty Principles Bill to
    first reading, asking if he agreed with former prime minister Dame
    Jenny Shipley's warning that politicizing the Treaty could "invite
    civil war".

    Luxon firmly rejected the claim, responding, "No, we are not at risk
    of civil war in New Zealand. That is inflammatory language."

    Hipkins pressed further, questioning why the Government had directed a >>>select committee to spend the next six months on the issue, to which >>>Luxon responded, "Because it is part of our coalition agreement."

    Hipkins then accused the Government of putting political interests
    ahead of the country, reiterating Shipley's warning: "This sort of >>>malicious, politically-motivated, fundraising-motivated attempt to >>>politicize the Treaty in a new way should raise people�s voices,
    because it is not in New Zealand�s immediate interest."

    Luxon rejected the accusation, stating, "I don't believe it's linked
    to fundraising."

    Now the coalition agreement is able to be seen on the3. National Party >>>website, and it does not say that the select committee must get six >>>months on the issue - so the question is whether Luxon is lying, >>>incompetent, or hiding details of his cave-in to ACT.

    Tough call, but I think he should get the benefit of the doubt and
    that the likely answer is incompetence . . .
    The answer is neither, you are just desperate.
    There are three options - which one did you leave in play, tony?
    Neither.

    Certainly many (probably including David Seymour) appear to believe
    that all three are true . . .
    No he doesn't. that is a lie.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)