• Follow the Money

    From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 27 19:48:21 2024
    One of the major influences on our last election was money - with the
    right receiving far more (and in larger payments) than the left; the
    shift for some of that money to go to overtly political "lobby groups"
    - the biggest here being the NZ Taxpayer Union, which had more
    spending power that the least endowed two or three political parties
    together; and the increase in the number of large donations which are
    now being linked to government policy decisions.

    The article below goes through some of these issues for the USA, where
    Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are using their wealth to buy the government
    they believe will best reward them . . .

    So read the article below but think about whether we have similar
    issues here - and whether Peter Thiel "helped' his friend John Key and
    now our new Government, and what changes to our election funding laws
    may be needed to ensure that we do not allow our government to be
    'purchased' by high bidders from overseas as well as internal wealthy individuals.



    Mary L Trump from The Good in Us <[email protected]>


    The Lights Are Dimming
    Evening dispatch
    Mary L. Trump
    Oct 26

    Why would anyone put our future in their hands?

    I�m still thinking about Jeff Bezos� egregious decision to force his
    paper, The Washington Post, to abdicate it�s journalistic
    responsibility by not endorsing a candidate for the presidency�only
    eleven days before the election in which the choice is between a
    fairly centrist Democrat and a full-blown fascist.

    The fallout is greater than anyone�especially Bezos�expected. Bezos� cluelessness is likely the result of his arrogance because, like many
    other wealthy men, arrogance made him overstep. Or maybe it�s just
    that a lot of wealthy men are members of the Dunning-Kruger club for
    oligarchs.

    As I pointed out yesterday, I wasn�t debating the importance of
    endorsements (in the grand scheme of things, I don�t think they count
    for much). I wanted, instead, to look at the potential impact this
    glaring omission had specifically in the wake of the Post�s
    endorsements in the last two elections.

    On October 13, 2016, the editorial board wrote:

    Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is dreadful, that is
    true � uniquely unqualified as a presidential candidate. If we
    believed that Ms. Clinton were the lesser of two evils, we might well
    urge you to vote for her anyway � that is how strongly we feel about
    Mr. Trump,� the editorial board wrote in endorsing Hillary Clinton.
    Trump, it � we because I was a member of the board then � said, �has
    shown himself to be bigoted, ignorant, deceitful, narcissistic,
    vengeful, petty, misogynistic, fiscally reckless, intellectually lazy, contemptuous of democracy and enamored of America�s enemies. As
    president, he would pose a grave danger to the nation and the world.

    On September 28, 2020, the Post�s board called Donald �the worst
    president of modern times,� claiming that �Democracy is at risk, at
    home and around the world. The nation desperately needs a president
    who will respect its public servants; stand up for the rule of law;
    acknowledge Congress�s constitutional role; and work for the public
    good, not his private benefit.�

    All of that remains operative. In the very long four years since those
    words were written, Donald Trump and the agenda he espouses have
    gotten much, much worse�more violent, more bigoted, more openly
    fascist. Choosing not to allow the editorial board to endorse Harris
    was obscene and the failure, or inability, of the board to do so
    leaves a gaping void into which the most awful conclusions can be
    drawn.

    On the same day the Post announced its decision, Donald met with
    executives, including CEO David Limp, of Blue Origin�the space
    technologies company owned by Bezos that has a $3.4 billion contract
    with NASA. I�m sure Bezos� decision and Donald�s meeting have nothing
    to do with the fact that in 2019, when Amazon was the frontrunner to
    receive a $10 billion cloud computing defense contract, the Trump administration awarded it to Microsoft instead, which was generally
    seen as a retaliatory move because, in Donald�s view, the Post�s
    coverage of him was too negative.

    Share

    And then there�s Elon Musk, the man whose obscene fortune is valued at approximately $270 billion. In an attempt to help buy the election for
    Donald, Musk has already put $120 million into his America PAC to
    which he seems to be the only donor.

    It makes sense that Musk would be backing Donald�they�re both deeply
    damaged men with serious mommy issues who care about money more than
    anything else. But there�s another reason�Musk has several very
    valuable government contracts that may be at risk (or under least
    under scrutiny) if Kamala Harris is in the White House.

    As Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo wrote:

    As one of the country�s biggest defense contractors, Musk holds
    high-level security clearances. The idea that he still holds those
    clearances and has direct operational control over critical national
    security technologies is simply absurd. But that confluence of power
    in the communications and political realms, as I said, appears to make
    him beyond reach. He�s now flagrantly violating federal laws against
    vote buying, even after a direct Department of Justice warning.

    The violation Marshall refers to has to do with Musk�s potential
    attempt at election interference, which is likely illegal. He set up a
    �1st and 2nd amendment rights survey� for voters in Pennsylvania, and
    anybody who is misguided enough to hand their data over to Musk is
    entered into a $1 million raffle. Almost daily, Musk has been handing
    out these million dollar checks despite that DoJ warning.

    Aspiring oligarchs like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, and Musk�s fellow
    apartheid-era South African cohorts, David Sacks and Peter Thiel (who
    bought JD Vance�s Ohio senate seat and made sure he was Donald�s VP
    pick) should not have such an outsize role in our election. And they
    certainly shouldn�t be allowed to have positions of power in our
    government. But that could well be where we�re headed.

    We�re faced with a very stark choice�another Trump administration in
    which billionaires like Bezos and Musk help rig the system to our
    detriment and even more in their favor (with Donald�s permission), or
    a Harris administration in which the billionaires will finally have to
    pay their fair share of taxes and in which their extraordinarily
    lucrative government contracts are pulled or at least re-evaluated.

    That seems like a pretty obvious choice, doesn�t it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Oct 27 07:47:58 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    One of the major influences on our last election was money - with the
    right receiving far more (and in larger payments) than the left; the
    shift for some of that money to go to overtly political "lobby groups"
    - the biggest here being the NZ Taxpayer Union, which had more
    spending power that the least endowed two or three political parties >together; and the increase in the number of large donations which are
    now being linked to government policy decisions.

    The article below goes through some of these issues for the USA, where
    Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are using their wealth to buy the government
    they believe will best reward them . . .

    So read the article below but think about whether we have similar
    issues here - and whether Peter Thiel "helped' his friend John Key and
    now our new Government, and what changes to our election funding laws
    may be needed to ensure that we do not allow our government to be
    'purchased' by high bidders from overseas as well as internal wealthy >individuals.



    Mary L Trump from The Good in Us <[email protected]>


    The Lights Are Dimming
    Evening dispatch
    Mary L. Trump
    Oct 26

    Why would anyone put our future in their hands?

    I�m still thinking about Jeff Bezos� egregious decision to force his
    paper, The Washington Post, to abdicate it�s journalistic
    responsibility by not endorsing a candidate for the presidency�only
    eleven days before the election in which the choice is between a
    fairly centrist Democrat and a full-blown fascist.

    The fallout is greater than anyone�especially Bezos�expected. Bezos� >cluelessness is likely the result of his arrogance because, like many
    other wealthy men, arrogance made him overstep. Or maybe it�s just
    that a lot of wealthy men are members of the Dunning-Kruger club for >oligarchs.

    As I pointed out yesterday, I wasn�t debating the importance of
    endorsements (in the grand scheme of things, I don�t think they count
    for much). I wanted, instead, to look at the potential impact this
    glaring omission had specifically in the wake of the Post�s
    endorsements in the last two elections.

    On October 13, 2016, the editorial board wrote:

    Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is dreadful, that is
    true � uniquely unqualified as a presidential candidate. If we
    believed that Ms. Clinton were the lesser of two evils, we might well
    urge you to vote for her anyway � that is how strongly we feel about
    Mr. Trump,� the editorial board wrote in endorsing Hillary Clinton.
    Trump, it � we because I was a member of the board then � said, �has
    shown himself to be bigoted, ignorant, deceitful, narcissistic,
    vengeful, petty, misogynistic, fiscally reckless, intellectually lazy, >contemptuous of democracy and enamored of America�s enemies. As
    president, he would pose a grave danger to the nation and the world.

    On September 28, 2020, the Post�s board called Donald �the worst
    president of modern times,� claiming that �Democracy is at risk, at
    home and around the world. The nation desperately needs a president
    who will respect its public servants; stand up for the rule of law; >acknowledge Congress�s constitutional role; and work for the public
    good, not his private benefit.�

    All of that remains operative. In the very long four years since those
    words were written, Donald Trump and the agenda he espouses have
    gotten much, much worse�more violent, more bigoted, more openly
    fascist. Choosing not to allow the editorial board to endorse Harris
    was obscene and the failure, or inability, of the board to do so
    leaves a gaping void into which the most awful conclusions can be
    drawn.

    On the same day the Post announced its decision, Donald met with
    executives, including CEO David Limp, of Blue Origin�the space
    technologies company owned by Bezos that has a $3.4 billion contract
    with NASA. I�m sure Bezos� decision and Donald�s meeting have nothing
    to do with the fact that in 2019, when Amazon was the frontrunner to
    receive a $10 billion cloud computing defense contract, the Trump >administration awarded it to Microsoft instead, which was generally
    seen as a retaliatory move because, in Donald�s view, the Post�s
    coverage of him was too negative.

    Share

    And then there�s Elon Musk, the man whose obscene fortune is valued at >approximately $270 billion. In an attempt to help buy the election for >Donald, Musk has already put $120 million into his America PAC to
    which he seems to be the only donor.

    It makes sense that Musk would be backing Donald�they�re both deeply
    damaged men with serious mommy issues who care about money more than
    anything else. But there�s another reason�Musk has several very
    valuable government contracts that may be at risk (or under least
    under scrutiny) if Kamala Harris is in the White House.

    As Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo wrote:

    As one of the country�s biggest defense contractors, Musk holds
    high-level security clearances. The idea that he still holds those
    clearances and has direct operational control over critical national
    security technologies is simply absurd. But that confluence of power
    in the communications and political realms, as I said, appears to make
    him beyond reach. He�s now flagrantly violating federal laws against
    vote buying, even after a direct Department of Justice warning.

    The violation Marshall refers to has to do with Musk�s potential
    attempt at election interference, which is likely illegal. He set up a
    �1st and 2nd amendment rights survey� for voters in Pennsylvania, and
    anybody who is misguided enough to hand their data over to Musk is
    entered into a $1 million raffle. Almost daily, Musk has been handing
    out these million dollar checks despite that DoJ warning.

    Aspiring oligarchs like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, and Musk�s fellow >apartheid-era South African cohorts, David Sacks and Peter Thiel (who
    bought JD Vance�s Ohio senate seat and made sure he was Donald�s VP
    pick) should not have such an outsize role in our election. And they >certainly shouldn�t be allowed to have positions of power in our
    government. But that could well be where we�re headed.

    We�re faced with a very stark choice�another Trump administration in
    which billionaires like Bezos and Musk help rig the system to our
    detriment and even more in their favor (with Donald�s permission), or
    a Harris administration in which the billionaires will finally have to
    pay their fair share of taxes and in which their extraordinarily
    lucrative government contracts are pulled or at least re-evaluated.

    That seems like a pretty obvious choice, doesn�t it?
    This entire post is nonsense and the first sentence is all that is necessary to show that.
    There was no right wing involved in the last election, even the ACT party are not right wing. They are centre right with National and NZ first a little to ACT's left.
    That lie is one you have told here for ever, and now you will double down with mention of the political compass, a left wing construct itself that has been shown to be so many times.
    You are pathetic. Try harder.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to funds from alternative sources then on Mon Oct 28 08:38:25 2024
    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 19:48:21 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    One of the major influences on our last election was money - with the
    right receiving far more (and in larger payments) than the left;

    Where have you been Rich? This is not a recent development. I well
    recall the TV advertising used prior to the 1975 election. Political
    parties raising funds for election campaigns go back at least the 60
    years of my political awareness.

    the
    shift for some of that money to go to overtly political "lobby groups"
    - the biggest here being the NZ Taxpayer Union, which had more
    spending power that the least endowed two or three political parties >together; and the increase in the number of large donations which are
    now being linked to government policy decisions.

    With our economy now being freed from the shackles of compulsory
    unionism there is no longer a source of funds for the Labour party
    through union membership fees. If Labour is no longer able to raise
    funds from alternative sources then that says something about Labour.

    The article below goes through some of these issues for the USA, where
    Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are using their wealth to buy the government
    they believe will best reward them . . .

    The USA electoral system is one where individuals get elected with a
    party affiliation. Trump and Harris raise their own funds, the
    Republican and Democratic parties are just political labels.

    So read the article below but think about whether we have similar
    issues here - and whether Peter Thiel "helped' his friend John Key and
    now our new Government, and what changes to our election funding laws
    may be needed to ensure that we do not allow our government to be
    'purchased' by high bidders from overseas as well as internal wealthy >individuals.

    Mary Trumps observations are completely irrelevant - because we re the
    opposite of what happens in political fundraising. In NZ it is the
    political parties that raise funds.

    With individuals being the fund raisers in the USA the potential for
    direct corruption is far more serious. If Trump is elected, will Musk
    come calling for some favours? If Harris is elected - will her major
    funders come calling in the same way?

    It is the USA that could learn from us - but they are far too arrogant
    to consider they can learn from any other country.

    Mary L Trump from The Good in Us <[email protected]>


    The Lights Are Dimming
    Evening dispatch
    Mary L. Trump
    Oct 26

    Why would anyone put our future in their hands?

    I�m still thinking about Jeff Bezos� egregious decision to force his
    paper, The Washington Post, to abdicate it�s journalistic
    responsibility by not endorsing a candidate for the presidency�only
    eleven days before the election in which the choice is between a
    fairly centrist Democrat and a full-blown fascist.

    The fallout is greater than anyone�especially Bezos�expected. Bezos� >cluelessness is likely the result of his arrogance because, like many
    other wealthy men, arrogance made him overstep. Or maybe it�s just
    that a lot of wealthy men are members of the Dunning-Kruger club for >oligarchs.

    As I pointed out yesterday, I wasn�t debating the importance of
    endorsements (in the grand scheme of things, I don�t think they count
    for much). I wanted, instead, to look at the potential impact this
    glaring omission had specifically in the wake of the Post�s
    endorsements in the last two elections.

    On October 13, 2016, the editorial board wrote:

    Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is dreadful, that is
    true � uniquely unqualified as a presidential candidate. If we
    believed that Ms. Clinton were the lesser of two evils, we might well
    urge you to vote for her anyway � that is how strongly we feel about
    Mr. Trump,� the editorial board wrote in endorsing Hillary Clinton.
    Trump, it � we because I was a member of the board then � said, �has
    shown himself to be bigoted, ignorant, deceitful, narcissistic,
    vengeful, petty, misogynistic, fiscally reckless, intellectually lazy, >contemptuous of democracy and enamored of America�s enemies. As
    president, he would pose a grave danger to the nation and the world.

    On September 28, 2020, the Post�s board called Donald �the worst
    president of modern times,� claiming that �Democracy is at risk, at
    home and around the world. The nation desperately needs a president
    who will respect its public servants; stand up for the rule of law; >acknowledge Congress�s constitutional role; and work for the public
    good, not his private benefit.�

    All of that remains operative. In the very long four years since those
    words were written, Donald Trump and the agenda he espouses have
    gotten much, much worse�more violent, more bigoted, more openly
    fascist. Choosing not to allow the editorial board to endorse Harris
    was obscene and the failure, or inability, of the board to do so
    leaves a gaping void into which the most awful conclusions can be
    drawn.

    On the same day the Post announced its decision, Donald met with
    executives, including CEO David Limp, of Blue Origin�the space
    technologies company owned by Bezos that has a $3.4 billion contract
    with NASA. I�m sure Bezos� decision and Donald�s meeting have nothing
    to do with the fact that in 2019, when Amazon was the frontrunner to
    receive a $10 billion cloud computing defense contract, the Trump >administration awarded it to Microsoft instead, which was generally
    seen as a retaliatory move because, in Donald�s view, the Post�s
    coverage of him was too negative.

    Share

    And then there�s Elon Musk, the man whose obscene fortune is valued at >approximately $270 billion. In an attempt to help buy the election for >Donald, Musk has already put $120 million into his America PAC to
    which he seems to be the only donor.

    It makes sense that Musk would be backing Donald�they�re both deeply
    damaged men with serious mommy issues who care about money more than
    anything else. But there�s another reason�Musk has several very
    valuable government contracts that may be at risk (or under least
    under scrutiny) if Kamala Harris is in the White House.

    As Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo wrote:

    As one of the country�s biggest defense contractors, Musk holds
    high-level security clearances. The idea that he still holds those
    clearances and has direct operational control over critical national
    security technologies is simply absurd. But that confluence of power
    in the communications and political realms, as I said, appears to make
    him beyond reach. He�s now flagrantly violating federal laws against
    vote buying, even after a direct Department of Justice warning.

    The violation Marshall refers to has to do with Musk�s potential
    attempt at election interference, which is likely illegal. He set up a
    �1st and 2nd amendment rights survey� for voters in Pennsylvania, and
    anybody who is misguided enough to hand their data over to Musk is
    entered into a $1 million raffle. Almost daily, Musk has been handing
    out these million dollar checks despite that DoJ warning.

    Aspiring oligarchs like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, and Musk�s fellow >apartheid-era South African cohorts, David Sacks and Peter Thiel (who
    bought JD Vance�s Ohio senate seat and made sure he was Donald�s VP
    pick) should not have such an outsize role in our election. And they >certainly shouldn�t be allowed to have positions of power in our
    government. But that could well be where we�re headed.

    We�re faced with a very stark choice�another Trump administration in
    which billionaires like Bezos and Musk help rig the system to our
    detriment and even more in their favor (with Donald�s permission), or
    a Harris administration in which the billionaires will finally have to
    pay their fair share of taxes and in which their extraordinarily
    lucrative government contracts are pulled or at least re-evaluated.

    That seems like a pretty obvious choice, doesn�t it?


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 28 14:59:27 2024
    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:38:25 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 19:48:21 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    One of the major influences on our last election was money - with the
    right receiving far more (and in larger payments) than the left;

    Where have you been Rich? This is not a recent development. I well
    recall the TV advertising used prior to the 1975 election. Political
    parties raising funds for election campaigns go back at least the 60
    years of my political awareness.

    the
    shift for some of that money to go to overtly political "lobby groups"
    - the biggest here being the NZ Taxpayer Union, which had more
    spending power that the least endowed two or three political parties >>together; and the increase in the number of large donations which are
    now being linked to government policy decisions.

    With our economy now being freed from the shackles of compulsory
    unionism there is no longer a source of funds for the Labour party
    through union membership fees. If Labour is no longer able to raise
    funds from alternative sources then that says something about Labour.

    The article below goes through some of these issues for the USA, where
    Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are using their wealth to buy the government
    they believe will best reward them . . .

    The USA electoral system is one where individuals get elected with a
    party affiliation. Trump and Harris raise their own funds, the
    Republican and Democratic parties are just political labels.

    So read the article below but think about whether we have similar
    issues here - and whether Peter Thiel "helped' his friend John Key and
    now our new Government, and what changes to our election funding laws
    may be needed to ensure that we do not allow our government to be >>'purchased' by high bidders from overseas as well as internal wealthy >>individuals.

    Mary Trumps observations are completely irrelevant - because we re the >opposite of what happens in political fundraising. In NZ it is the
    political parties that raise funds.
    Together with some others - the NZ Taxpayer Union is right up there -
    did they raise more money than the National Party?

    With individuals being the fund raisers in the USA the potential for
    direct corruption is far more serious. If Trump is elected, will Musk
    come calling for some favours? If Harris is elected - will her major
    funders come calling in the same way?
    Yet we see individual fundraisers - in New Zealand as well - there is
    a remarkable correlation between political donations and companies
    involved in projects that just happened to get on the fast track list
    . . .

    It is the USA that could learn from us - but they are far too arrogant
    to consider they can learn from any other country.

    I suspect the NZ Taxpayers union has been, relatively speaking, as
    effective as many political action committees in the USA . . .


    Mary L Trump from The Good in Us <[email protected]>


    The Lights Are Dimming
    Evening dispatch
    Mary L. Trump
    Oct 26

    Why would anyone put our future in their hands?

    I�m still thinking about Jeff Bezos� egregious decision to force his
    paper, The Washington Post, to abdicate it�s journalistic
    responsibility by not endorsing a candidate for the presidency�only
    eleven days before the election in which the choice is between a
    fairly centrist Democrat and a full-blown fascist.

    The fallout is greater than anyone�especially Bezos�expected. Bezos� >>cluelessness is likely the result of his arrogance because, like many
    other wealthy men, arrogance made him overstep. Or maybe it�s just
    that a lot of wealthy men are members of the Dunning-Kruger club for >>oligarchs.

    As I pointed out yesterday, I wasn�t debating the importance of >>endorsements (in the grand scheme of things, I don�t think they count
    for much). I wanted, instead, to look at the potential impact this
    glaring omission had specifically in the wake of the Post�s
    endorsements in the last two elections.

    On October 13, 2016, the editorial board wrote:

    Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is dreadful, that is
    true � uniquely unqualified as a presidential candidate. If we
    believed that Ms. Clinton were the lesser of two evils, we might well
    urge you to vote for her anyway � that is how strongly we feel about
    Mr. Trump,� the editorial board wrote in endorsing Hillary Clinton.
    Trump, it � we because I was a member of the board then � said, �has
    shown himself to be bigoted, ignorant, deceitful, narcissistic,
    vengeful, petty, misogynistic, fiscally reckless, intellectually lazy, >>contemptuous of democracy and enamored of America�s enemies. As
    president, he would pose a grave danger to the nation and the world.

    On September 28, 2020, the Post�s board called Donald �the worst
    president of modern times,� claiming that �Democracy is at risk, at
    home and around the world. The nation desperately needs a president
    who will respect its public servants; stand up for the rule of law; >>acknowledge Congress�s constitutional role; and work for the public
    good, not his private benefit.�

    All of that remains operative. In the very long four years since those >>words were written, Donald Trump and the agenda he espouses have
    gotten much, much worse�more violent, more bigoted, more openly
    fascist. Choosing not to allow the editorial board to endorse Harris
    was obscene and the failure, or inability, of the board to do so
    leaves a gaping void into which the most awful conclusions can be
    drawn.

    On the same day the Post announced its decision, Donald met with >>executives, including CEO David Limp, of Blue Origin�the space
    technologies company owned by Bezos that has a $3.4 billion contract
    with NASA. I�m sure Bezos� decision and Donald�s meeting have nothing
    to do with the fact that in 2019, when Amazon was the frontrunner to >>receive a $10 billion cloud computing defense contract, the Trump >>administration awarded it to Microsoft instead, which was generally
    seen as a retaliatory move because, in Donald�s view, the Post�s
    coverage of him was too negative.

    Share

    And then there�s Elon Musk, the man whose obscene fortune is valued at >>approximately $270 billion. In an attempt to help buy the election for >>Donald, Musk has already put $120 million into his America PAC to
    which he seems to be the only donor.

    It makes sense that Musk would be backing Donald�they�re both deeply >>damaged men with serious mommy issues who care about money more than >>anything else. But there�s another reason�Musk has several very
    valuable government contracts that may be at risk (or under least
    under scrutiny) if Kamala Harris is in the White House.

    As Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo wrote:

    As one of the country�s biggest defense contractors, Musk holds >>high-level security clearances. The idea that he still holds those >>clearances and has direct operational control over critical national >>security technologies is simply absurd. But that confluence of power
    in the communications and political realms, as I said, appears to make
    him beyond reach. He�s now flagrantly violating federal laws against
    vote buying, even after a direct Department of Justice warning.

    The violation Marshall refers to has to do with Musk�s potential
    attempt at election interference, which is likely illegal. He set up a
    �1st and 2nd amendment rights survey� for voters in Pennsylvania, and >>anybody who is misguided enough to hand their data over to Musk is
    entered into a $1 million raffle. Almost daily, Musk has been handing
    out these million dollar checks despite that DoJ warning.

    Aspiring oligarchs like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, and Musk�s fellow >>apartheid-era South African cohorts, David Sacks and Peter Thiel (who >>bought JD Vance�s Ohio senate seat and made sure he was Donald�s VP
    pick) should not have such an outsize role in our election. And they >>certainly shouldn�t be allowed to have positions of power in our >>government. But that could well be where we�re headed.

    We�re faced with a very stark choice�another Trump administration in
    which billionaires like Bezos and Musk help rig the system to our
    detriment and even more in their favor (with Donald�s permission), or
    a Harris administration in which the billionaires will finally have to
    pay their fair share of taxes and in which their extraordinarily
    lucrative government contracts are pulled or at least re-evaluated.

    That seems like a pretty obvious choice, doesn�t it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Oct 28 02:32:21 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:38:25 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 19:48:21 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    One of the major influences on our last election was money - with the >>>right receiving far more (and in larger payments) than the left;

    Where have you been Rich? This is not a recent development. I well
    recall the TV advertising used prior to the 1975 election. Political >>parties raising funds for election campaigns go back at least the 60
    years of my political awareness.

    the
    shift for some of that money to go to overtly political "lobby groups"
    - the biggest here being the NZ Taxpayer Union, which had more
    spending power that the least endowed two or three political parties >>>together; and the increase in the number of large donations which are
    now being linked to government policy decisions.

    With our economy now being freed from the shackles of compulsory
    unionism there is no longer a source of funds for the Labour party
    through union membership fees. If Labour is no longer able to raise
    funds from alternative sources then that says something about Labour.

    The article below goes through some of these issues for the USA, where >>>Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are using their wealth to buy the government >>>they believe will best reward them . . .

    The USA electoral system is one where individuals get elected with a
    party affiliation. Trump and Harris raise their own funds, the
    Republican and Democratic parties are just political labels.

    So read the article below but think about whether we have similar
    issues here - and whether Peter Thiel "helped' his friend John Key and >>>now our new Government, and what changes to our election funding laws
    may be needed to ensure that we do not allow our government to be >>>'purchased' by high bidders from overseas as well as internal wealthy >>>individuals.

    Mary Trumps observations are completely irrelevant - because we re the >>opposite of what happens in political fundraising. In NZ it is the >>political parties that raise funds.
    Together with some others - the NZ Taxpayer Union is right up there -
    did they raise more money than the National Party?
    Obviously not, they are not linked to the National party and if you actually read what they publish you would see that they are criticising the current government a great deal - exactly as their charter requires.

    With individuals being the fund raisers in the USA the potential for
    direct corruption is far more serious. If Trump is elected, will Musk
    come calling for some favours? If Harris is elected - will her major >>funders come calling in the same way?
    Yet we see individual fundraisers - in New Zealand as well - there is
    a remarkable correlation between political donations and companies
    involved in projects that just happened to get on the fast track list Evidence? I doubt you can find any.
    . . .

    It is the USA that could learn from us - but they are far too arrogant
    to consider they can learn from any other country.

    I suspect the NZ Taxpayers union has been, relatively speaking, as
    effective as many political action committees in the USA . . .
    Nonsensical rhetoric.


    Mary L Trump from The Good in Us <[email protected]>


    The Lights Are Dimming
    Evening dispatch
    Mary L. Trump
    Oct 26

    Why would anyone put our future in their hands?

    I�m still thinking about Jeff Bezos� egregious decision to force his >>>paper, The Washington Post, to abdicate it�s journalistic
    responsibility by not endorsing a candidate for the presidency�only >>>eleven days before the election in which the choice is between a
    fairly centrist Democrat and a full-blown fascist.

    The fallout is greater than anyone�especially Bezos�expected. Bezos� >>>cluelessness is likely the result of his arrogance because, like many >>>other wealthy men, arrogance made him overstep. Or maybe it�s just
    that a lot of wealthy men are members of the Dunning-Kruger club for >>>oligarchs.

    As I pointed out yesterday, I wasn�t debating the importance of >>>endorsements (in the grand scheme of things, I don�t think they count
    for much). I wanted, instead, to look at the potential impact this >>>glaring omission had specifically in the wake of the Post�s
    endorsements in the last two elections.

    On October 13, 2016, the editorial board wrote:

    Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is dreadful, that is >>>true � uniquely unqualified as a presidential candidate. If we
    believed that Ms. Clinton were the lesser of two evils, we might well >>>urge you to vote for her anyway � that is how strongly we feel about
    Mr. Trump,� the editorial board wrote in endorsing Hillary Clinton. >>>Trump, it � we because I was a member of the board then � said, �has >>>shown himself to be bigoted, ignorant, deceitful, narcissistic,
    vengeful, petty, misogynistic, fiscally reckless, intellectually lazy, >>>contemptuous of democracy and enamored of America�s enemies. As >>>president, he would pose a grave danger to the nation and the world.

    On September 28, 2020, the Post�s board called Donald �the worst >>>president of modern times,� claiming that �Democracy is at risk, at
    home and around the world. The nation desperately needs a president
    who will respect its public servants; stand up for the rule of law; >>>acknowledge Congress�s constitutional role; and work for the public
    good, not his private benefit.�

    All of that remains operative. In the very long four years since those >>>words were written, Donald Trump and the agenda he espouses have
    gotten much, much worse�more violent, more bigoted, more openly
    fascist. Choosing not to allow the editorial board to endorse Harris
    was obscene and the failure, or inability, of the board to do so
    leaves a gaping void into which the most awful conclusions can be
    drawn.

    On the same day the Post announced its decision, Donald met with >>>executives, including CEO David Limp, of Blue Origin�the space >>>technologies company owned by Bezos that has a $3.4 billion contract
    with NASA. I�m sure Bezos� decision and Donald�s meeting have nothing
    to do with the fact that in 2019, when Amazon was the frontrunner to >>>receive a $10 billion cloud computing defense contract, the Trump >>>administration awarded it to Microsoft instead, which was generally
    seen as a retaliatory move because, in Donald�s view, the Post�s
    coverage of him was too negative.

    Share

    And then there�s Elon Musk, the man whose obscene fortune is valued at >>>approximately $270 billion. In an attempt to help buy the election for >>>Donald, Musk has already put $120 million into his America PAC to
    which he seems to be the only donor.

    It makes sense that Musk would be backing Donald�they�re both deeply >>>damaged men with serious mommy issues who care about money more than >>>anything else. But there�s another reason�Musk has several very
    valuable government contracts that may be at risk (or under least
    under scrutiny) if Kamala Harris is in the White House.

    As Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo wrote:

    As one of the country�s biggest defense contractors, Musk holds >>>high-level security clearances. The idea that he still holds those >>>clearances and has direct operational control over critical national >>>security technologies is simply absurd. But that confluence of power
    in the communications and political realms, as I said, appears to make >>>him beyond reach. He�s now flagrantly violating federal laws against
    vote buying, even after a direct Department of Justice warning.

    The violation Marshall refers to has to do with Musk�s potential
    attempt at election interference, which is likely illegal. He set up a >>>�1st and 2nd amendment rights survey� for voters in Pennsylvania, and >>>anybody who is misguided enough to hand their data over to Musk is >>>entered into a $1 million raffle. Almost daily, Musk has been handing
    out these million dollar checks despite that DoJ warning.

    Aspiring oligarchs like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, and Musk�s fellow >>>apartheid-era South African cohorts, David Sacks and Peter Thiel (who >>>bought JD Vance�s Ohio senate seat and made sure he was Donald�s VP
    pick) should not have such an outsize role in our election. And they >>>certainly shouldn�t be allowed to have positions of power in our >>>government. But that could well be where we�re headed.

    We�re faced with a very stark choice�another Trump administration in >>>which billionaires like Bezos and Musk help rig the system to our >>>detriment and even more in their favor (with Donald�s permission), or
    a Harris administration in which the billionaires will finally have to >>>pay their fair share of taxes and in which their extraordinarily >>>lucrative government contracts are pulled or at least re-evaluated.

    That seems like a pretty obvious choice, doesn�t it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Tony on Mon Oct 28 03:53:18 2024
    On 2024-10-28, Tony <[email protected]> wrote:
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:38:25 +1300, Crash <[email protected]d> >>wrote:

    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 19:48:21 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>wrote:

    One of the major influences on our last election was money - with the >>>>right receiving far more (and in larger payments) than the left;

    Where have you been Rich? This is not a recent development. I well >>>recall the TV advertising used prior to the 1975 election. Political >>>parties raising funds for election campaigns go back at least the 60 >>>years of my political awareness.

    the
    shift for some of that money to go to overtly political "lobby groups" >>>>- the biggest here being the NZ Taxpayer Union, which had more
    spending power that the least endowed two or three political parties >>>>together; and the increase in the number of large donations which are >>>>now being linked to government policy decisions.

    With our economy now being freed from the shackles of compulsory
    unionism there is no longer a source of funds for the Labour party >>>through union membership fees. If Labour is no longer able to raise >>>funds from alternative sources then that says something about Labour.

    The article below goes through some of these issues for the USA, where >>>>Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are using their wealth to buy the government >>>>they believe will best reward them . . .

    The USA electoral system is one where individuals get elected with a >>>party affiliation. Trump and Harris raise their own funds, the >>>Republican and Democratic parties are just political labels.

    So read the article below but think about whether we have similar >>>>issues here - and whether Peter Thiel "helped' his friend John Key and >>>>now our new Government, and what changes to our election funding laws >>>>may be needed to ensure that we do not allow our government to be >>>>'purchased' by high bidders from overseas as well as internal wealthy >>>>individuals.

    Mary Trumps observations are completely irrelevant - because we re the >>>opposite of what happens in political fundraising. In NZ it is the >>>political parties that raise funds.
    Together with some others - the NZ Taxpayer Union is right up there -
    did they raise more money than the National Party?
    Obviously not, they are not linked to the National party and if you actually read what they publish you would see that they are criticising the current government a great deal - exactly as their charter requires.

    They are doing what the Forth Estate used to do.



    With individuals being the fund raisers in the USA the potential for >>>direct corruption is far more serious. If Trump is elected, will Musk >>>come calling for some favours? If Harris is elected - will her major >>>funders come calling in the same way?
    Yet we see individual fundraisers - in New Zealand as well - there is
    a remarkable correlation between political donations and companies
    involved in projects that just happened to get on the fast track list
    Evidence? I doubt you can find any.
    . . .

    It is the USA that could learn from us - but they are far too arrogant
    to consider they can learn from any other country.

    I suspect the NZ Taxpayers union has been, relatively speaking, as >>effective as many political action committees in the USA . . .
    Nonsensical rhetoric.


    Mary L Trump from The Good in Us <[email protected]>


    The Lights Are Dimming
    Evening dispatch
    Mary L. Trump
    Oct 26

    Why would anyone put our future in their hands?

    I’m still thinking about Jeff Bezos’ egregious decision to force his >>>>paper, The Washington Post, to abdicate it’s journalistic >>>>responsibility by not endorsing a candidate for the presidency—only >>>>eleven days before the election in which the choice is between a
    fairly centrist Democrat and a full-blown fascist.

    The fallout is greater than anyone—especially Bezos—expected. Bezos’ >>>>cluelessness is likely the result of his arrogance because, like many >>>>other wealthy men, arrogance made him overstep. Or maybe it’s just >>>>that a lot of wealthy men are members of the Dunning-Kruger club for >>>>oligarchs.

    As I pointed out yesterday, I wasn’t debating the importance of >>>>endorsements (in the grand scheme of things, I don’t think they count >>>>for much). I wanted, instead, to look at the potential impact this >>>>glaring omission had specifically in the wake of the Post’s >>>>endorsements in the last two elections.

    On October 13, 2016, the editorial board wrote:

    Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is dreadful, that is >>>>true — uniquely unqualified as a presidential candidate. If we >>>>believed that Ms. Clinton were the lesser of two evils, we might well >>>>urge you to vote for her anyway — that is how strongly we feel about >>>>Mr. Trump,” the editorial board wrote in endorsing Hillary Clinton. >>>>Trump, it — we because I was a member of the board then — said, “has >>>>shown himself to be bigoted, ignorant, deceitful, narcissistic, >>>>vengeful, petty, misogynistic, fiscally reckless, intellectually lazy, >>>>contemptuous of democracy and enamored of America’s enemies. As >>>>president, he would pose a grave danger to the nation and the world.

    On September 28, 2020, the Post’s board called Donald “the worst >>>>president of modern times,” claiming that “Democracy is at risk, at >>>>home and around the world. The nation desperately needs a president
    who will respect its public servants; stand up for the rule of law; >>>>acknowledge Congress’s constitutional role; and work for the public >>>>good, not his private benefit.”

    All of that remains operative. In the very long four years since those >>>>words were written, Donald Trump and the agenda he espouses have
    gotten much, much worse—more violent, more bigoted, more openly >>>>fascist. Choosing not to allow the editorial board to endorse Harris >>>>was obscene and the failure, or inability, of the board to do so
    leaves a gaping void into which the most awful conclusions can be >>>>drawn.

    On the same day the Post announced its decision, Donald met with >>>>executives, including CEO David Limp, of Blue Origin—the space >>>>technologies company owned by Bezos that has a $3.4 billion contract >>>>with NASA. I’m sure Bezos’ decision and Donald’s meeting have nothing >>>>to do with the fact that in 2019, when Amazon was the frontrunner to >>>>receive a $10 billion cloud computing defense contract, the Trump >>>>administration awarded it to Microsoft instead, which was generally >>>>seen as a retaliatory move because, in Donald’s view, the Post’s >>>>coverage of him was too negative.

    Share

    And then there’s Elon Musk, the man whose obscene fortune is valued at >>>>approximately $270 billion. In an attempt to help buy the election for >>>>Donald, Musk has already put $120 million into his America PAC to
    which he seems to be the only donor.

    It makes sense that Musk would be backing Donald—they’re both deeply >>>>damaged men with serious mommy issues who care about money more than >>>>anything else. But there’s another reason—Musk has several very >>>>valuable government contracts that may be at risk (or under least >>>>under scrutiny) if Kamala Harris is in the White House.

    As Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo wrote:

    As one of the country’s biggest defense contractors, Musk holds >>>>high-level security clearances. The idea that he still holds those >>>>clearances and has direct operational control over critical national >>>>security technologies is simply absurd. But that confluence of power
    in the communications and political realms, as I said, appears to make >>>>him beyond reach. He’s now flagrantly violating federal laws against >>>>vote buying, even after a direct Department of Justice warning.

    The violation Marshall refers to has to do with Musk’s potential >>>>attempt at election interference, which is likely illegal. He set up a >>>>“1st and 2nd amendment rights survey” for voters in Pennsylvania, and >>>>anybody who is misguided enough to hand their data over to Musk is >>>>entered into a $1 million raffle. Almost daily, Musk has been handing >>>>out these million dollar checks despite that DoJ warning.

    Aspiring oligarchs like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, and Musk’s fellow >>>>apartheid-era South African cohorts, David Sacks and Peter Thiel (who >>>>bought JD Vance’s Ohio senate seat and made sure he was Donald’s VP >>>>pick) should not have such an outsize role in our election. And they >>>>certainly shouldn’t be allowed to have positions of power in our >>>>government. But that could well be where we’re headed.

    We’re faced with a very stark choice—another Trump administration in >>>>which billionaires like Bezos and Musk help rig the system to our >>>>detriment and even more in their favor (with Donald’s permission), or >>>>a Harris administration in which the billionaires will finally have to >>>>pay their fair share of taxes and in which their extraordinarily >>>>lucrative government contracts are pulled or at least re-evaluated.

    That seems like a pretty obvious choice, doesn’t it?


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)