The Christchurch Muslim community has become so riled up, they havePolitical rhetoric, nothing more. And a profoundly stupid header to your post.
joined Christians in a church to make their feelings known about the >Government’s attitude ><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/07/govt-turning-its-back-on-victims-of-march-15-attack-imam-says/>.
One issue is the seeming rolling back of support services since the
2019 Ides of March massacre. Another issue is the threat of the same
thing happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has
a long connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince
anybody she can consider the issue with an unbiased eye.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss the >>community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; she was >>mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to another meeting >>elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:24:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above? Perhaps not?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
Another issue is the threat of the same thing
happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has a long
connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince anybody she
can consider the issue with an unbiased eye.
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss the >community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; she was >mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to another meeting >elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
Another issue is the threat of the same thing
happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has a long
connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince anybody she
can consider the issue with an unbiased eye.
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:Did he produce evidence?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss the >>>community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; she was >>>mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to another meeting >>>elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss the >>>>community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; she was >>>>mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to another >>>>meeting elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
Did he produce evidence?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss the
community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; she was >>>> mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to another
meeting elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 21:20:24 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:I mean what I wrote, you should try it.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss the >>>>>community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; she was >>>>>mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to another >>>>>meeting elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
Did he produce evidence?
You mean, did he secretly record the meeting?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 21:20:24 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss the >>>>>>community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; she >>>>>>was mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to >>>>>>another meeting elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
Did he produce evidence?
You mean, did he secretly record the meeting?
I mean what I wrote ...
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 23:33:41 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:No. you assumed that you know what I meant - and you don't. Period.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 21:20:24 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss the >>>>>>>community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; she >>>>>>>was mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to >>>>>>>another meeting elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
Did he produce evidence?
You mean, did he secretly record the meeting?
I mean what I wrote ...
So did I.
The Christchurch Muslim community has become so riled up, they have
joined Christians in a church to make their feelings known about the >Government�s attitude ><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/07/govt-turning-its-back-on-victims-of-march-15-attack-imam-says/>.
One issue is the seeming rolling back of support services since the
2019 Ides of March massacre. Another issue is the threat of the same
thing happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has
a long connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince
anybody she can consider the issue with an unbiased eye.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 21:20:24 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss
the community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; >>>>>> she was mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to
another meeting elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
Let’s see: on one side, you have a politician with known connections to
a completely unscrupulous, ruthless and well-funded lobby organization.
On the other side, you have a well-regarded leader of the local
community.
Draw your own conclusions.
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 02:26:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:You certainly seem to have plenty of questions but little substance for your complaints against this minister, complaints that are one hundred percent politically motivated. How pathetic.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 21:20:24 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss >>>>>>> the community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; >>>>>>> she was mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to >>>>>>> another meeting elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
Let’s see: on one side, you have a politician with known connections to >>> a completely unscrupulous, ruthless and well-funded lobby organization.
On the other side, you have a well-regarded leader of the local
community.
Draw your own conclusions.
And here she is again ><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/08/officials-raise-alarm-after-mckee-makes-rapid-gun-law-change/>,
making changes to gun laws via an “Order In Council” shortcut,
bypassing the usual checks and balances. Sure, technically she has the
power to do that, but her own officials were raising concern about the
haste with which the law change was going through.
Somehow the Minister believes these changes “do not impact on public >safety”. But it’s not clear where she got this advice from --
certainly not from her own officials. But if not them, then who?
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 06:45:20 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'OliveiroWe have a well regulated militia, Bill - it is our Defence forces.
<[email protected]d> wrote:
The Christchurch Muslim community has become so riled up, they have
joined Christians in a church to make their feelings known about the >>Government�s attitude >><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/07/govt-turning-its-back-on-victims-of-march-15-attack-imam-says/>.
One issue is the seeming rolling back of support services since the
2019 Ides of March massacre. Another issue is the threat of the same
thing happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has
a long connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince
anybody she can consider the issue with an unbiased eye.
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly
after after the Christchurch massacre.
STICK TO YOUR GUNS.
In their hasty response to the act of multiple murder that took place
in Christchurch in March 2019, the government decided, by decree, that
all semi automatic "military style" weapons were to be confiscated. No >process, no consultation, nothing. The gun grabbing had started even
before the bodies had been buried.
Nowhere in the mainstream media was it even hinted that there maybe a
problem with this. The crime that took place in Christchurch that day
was always going to happen in this country because NZ is among the
softest of targets. Multiple murderers always target areas where
people are defenceless.
Whenever these brutal killings are carried out, the mainstream media
can't shut up about it for days, weeks and even months afterwards,
labouring their own talking points to the exclusion of all others and
giving the perpetrator what he so desperately craves; publicity.
If the government believes that disarming the people will discourage
further incidents of multiple murder, they are sadly mistaken. The
greatest number of people killed by a terrorist with a gun was 69 (as
far as I know), by Anders Brevik in liberal Norway (plus another eight
with a fertilizer bomb). That is fewer than the Nice attack in France
in which 86 people were killed without involving firearms. The 9/11 >terrorists killed almost 3000 people without a single shot being
fired. The Oklahoma bomber murdered 168 people, also without a gun.
It is therefore quite plain that if someone is determined to to murder
as many people as possible, guns and ammo would not be the first items
on the shopping list.
What the media never reports is those incidents when some lunatic bent
on mass murder is stopped by a good guy with a gun. The mainstream
media will not be diverted from their own narrative in which they
would have everyone believe that fewer guns make for a safer society.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Gun confiscation works only on compliant, law abiding people. Taking
guns away from good citizens won't make a damn bit of difference.
Criminals will not be surrendering their guns to the authorities, with
the result that only the bad guys and the government will be packing
heat.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
state, the right OF THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be
infringed".
So reads the second amendment of the US Constitution. The
constitution, being binding on the government, essentially codifies
the principle that self defence is a fundamental human right and that
the government has no business violating that right.
Self defence is not the only reason for the second amendment. In fact
it is not even the main reason. The constitutional right to keep and
bear arms was primarily contrived to enable the people to defend
themselves against their own government. The framers understood that a
well armed citizenry would serve as a significant deterrent to any
potential tyrant.
It is also worth noting that every brutal dictator who has ever
bludgeoned his way to absolute power, kicked off the campaign of
murder and torture by first promising to "help out the little guy" and
then later taking steps to disarm the population. The gun confiscation >legislation that the Ardern government enacted should not surprise
anyone who is familiar with the behaviour of past dictators. All this >happened with the approval of a weak and gutless opposition.
DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR GUNS TO THE GOVERNMENT. YOUR FREEDOM MAY ONE DAY
COME TO DEPEND ON THEM.
Bill.
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:Geez you are thick. Can you ever actually respond to another post without puking all over it? Or was it just more sarcasm? In either event, attrocious behaviour.
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 06:45:20 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >><[email protected]d> wrote:We have a well regulated militia, Bill - it is our Defence forces.
The Christchurch Muslim community has become so riled up, they have >>>joined Christians in a church to make their feelings known about the >>>Government�s attitude >>><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/07/govt-turning-its-back-on-victims-of-march-15-attack-imam-says/>.
One issue is the seeming rolling back of support services since the
2019 Ides of March massacre. Another issue is the threat of the same >>>thing happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has
a long connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince
anybody she can consider the issue with an unbiased eye.
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly
after after the Christchurch massacre.
STICK TO YOUR GUNS.
In their hasty response to the act of multiple murder that took place
in Christchurch in March 2019, the government decided, by decree, that
all semi automatic "military style" weapons were to be confiscated. No >>process, no consultation, nothing. The gun grabbing had started even
before the bodies had been buried.
Nowhere in the mainstream media was it even hinted that there maybe a >>problem with this. The crime that took place in Christchurch that day
was always going to happen in this country because NZ is among the
softest of targets. Multiple murderers always target areas where
people are defenceless.
Whenever these brutal killings are carried out, the mainstream media
can't shut up about it for days, weeks and even months afterwards, >>labouring their own talking points to the exclusion of all others and >>giving the perpetrator what he so desperately craves; publicity.
If the government believes that disarming the people will discourage >>further incidents of multiple murder, they are sadly mistaken. The
greatest number of people killed by a terrorist with a gun was 69 (as
far as I know), by Anders Brevik in liberal Norway (plus another eight
with a fertilizer bomb). That is fewer than the Nice attack in France
in which 86 people were killed without involving firearms. The 9/11 >>terrorists killed almost 3000 people without a single shot being
fired. The Oklahoma bomber murdered 168 people, also without a gun.
It is therefore quite plain that if someone is determined to to murder
as many people as possible, guns and ammo would not be the first items
on the shopping list.
What the media never reports is those incidents when some lunatic bent
on mass murder is stopped by a good guy with a gun. The mainstream
media will not be diverted from their own narrative in which they
would have everyone believe that fewer guns make for a safer society.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Gun confiscation works only on compliant, law abiding people. Taking
guns away from good citizens won't make a damn bit of difference.
Criminals will not be surrendering their guns to the authorities, with
the result that only the bad guys and the government will be packing
heat.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
state, the right OF THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be >>infringed".
So reads the second amendment of the US Constitution. The
constitution, being binding on the government, essentially codifies
the principle that self defence is a fundamental human right and that
the government has no business violating that right.
Self defence is not the only reason for the second amendment. In fact
it is not even the main reason. The constitutional right to keep and
bear arms was primarily contrived to enable the people to defend
themselves against their own government. The framers understood that a
well armed citizenry would serve as a significant deterrent to any >>potential tyrant.
It is also worth noting that every brutal dictator who has ever
bludgeoned his way to absolute power, kicked off the campaign of
murder and torture by first promising to "help out the little guy" and
then later taking steps to disarm the population. The gun confiscation >>legislation that the Ardern government enacted should not surprise
anyone who is familiar with the behaviour of past dictators. All this >>happened with the approval of a weak and gutless opposition.
DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR GUNS TO THE GOVERNMENT. YOUR FREEDOM MAY ONE DAY
COME TO DEPEND ON THEM.
Bill.
Why would you want private armies? - or deranged individuals having
access to semi-automatic firearms?
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 21:20:24 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss the >>>>> community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; she was >>>>> mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to another
meeting elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
Let’s see: on one side, you have a politician with known connections to a completely unscrupulous, ruthless and well-funded lobby organization. On
the other side, you have a well-regarded leader of the local community.
Draw your own conclusions.
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 02:26:01 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 21:20:24 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 07:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
The Imam relates being at a meeting with the Minister to discuss >>>>>>> the community’s concerns. She didn’t seem to have time to listen; >>>>>>> she was mainly there to make her statements, and then rush off to >>>>>>> another meeting elsewhere.
Stakeholders deserve more respect than that, don’t you think?
Perhaps you could provide evidence of the above?
It’s in the Imam’s own words.
Let’s see: on one side, you have a politician with known connections to >>> a completely unscrupulous, ruthless and well-funded lobby organization.
On the other side, you have a well-regarded leader of the local
community.
Draw your own conclusions.
And here she is again
<https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/08/officials-raise-alarm-after-mckee-makes-rapid-gun-law-change/>,
making changes to gun laws via an “Order In Council” shortcut,
bypassing the usual checks and balances. Sure, technically she has the
power to do that, but her own officials were raising concern about the
haste with which the law change was going through.
Somehow the Minister believes these changes “do not impact on public safety”. But it’s not clear where she got this advice from --
certainly not from her own officials. But if not them, then who?
We have a well regulated militia, Bill - it is our Defence forces.
Why would you want private armies? -
or deranged individuals having acess to semi-automatic firearms?
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR wrote:No right wingers here old chum, just you neo-marxist fools.
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly
after after the Christchurch massacre.
By whom, I wonder? What a load of content-free hot air.
But then, there’s nothing right-wingers like better than to keep spouting >the same old tired ideology, no matter how much the facts stack up against >them.
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly
after after the Christchurch massacre.
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR wrote:
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly
after after the Christchurch massacre.
By whom, I wonder? What a load of content-free hot air.
But then, there’s nothing right-wingers like better than to keep spouting the same old tired ideology, no matter how much the facts stack up against them.
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR wrote:
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly
after after the Christchurch massacre.
By whom, I wonder? What a load of content-free hot air.
But then, there�s nothing right-wingers like better than to keep spouting
the same old tired ideology, no matter how much the facts stack up against >them.
On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 21:18:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'OliveiroOne fact is that this thread has diverged significantly from the first
<[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR wrote:
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly
after after the Christchurch massacre.
By whom, I wonder? What a load of content-free hot air.
Does it matter?
But then, there�s nothing right-wingers like better than to keep spouting >>the same old tired ideology, no matter how much the facts stack up against >>them.
What are the facts?
Bill.
What are the facts?
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:09:23 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:As did Ardern. more than once.
On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 21:18:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >><[email protected]d> wrote:One fact is that this thread has diverged significantly from the first
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR wrote:
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly
after after the Christchurch massacre.
By whom, I wonder? What a load of content-free hot air.
Does it matter?
But then, there�s nothing right-wingers like better than to keep spouting >>>the same old tired ideology, no matter how much the facts stack up against >>>them.
What are the facts?
Bill.
post :
__________________________
The Christchurch Muslim community has become so riled up, they have
joined Christians in a church to make their feelings known about the >Government�s attitude ><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/07/govt-turning-its-back-on-victims-of-march-15-attack-imam-says/>.
One issue is the seeming rolling back of support services since the
2019 Ides of March massacre. Another issue is the threat of the same
thing happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has
a long connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince
anybody she can consider the issue with an unbiased eye. >__________________________
Now we have seen McKee make changes to the law through order in
council - no consultation, no expert advice . . . .
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:09:23 +1200, BR wrote:
What are the facts?
Fact: Australia has proven that gun control can be made to work, and makes >everybody safer.
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:09:23 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:As did Ardern. more than once.
On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 21:18:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >>><[email protected]d> wrote:One fact is that this thread has diverged significantly from the first
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR wrote:
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly >>>>> after after the Christchurch massacre.
By whom, I wonder? What a load of content-free hot air.
Does it matter?
But then, there�s nothing right-wingers like better than to keep spouting >>>>the same old tired ideology, no matter how much the facts stack up against >>>>them.
What are the facts?
Bill.
post :
__________________________
The Christchurch Muslim community has become so riled up, they have
joined Christians in a church to make their feelings known about the >>Government�s attitude >><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/07/govt-turning-its-back-on-victims-of-march-15-attack-imam-says/>.
One issue is the seeming rolling back of support services since the
2019 Ides of March massacre. Another issue is the threat of the same
thing happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has
a long connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince
anybody she can consider the issue with an unbiased eye. >>__________________________
Now we have seen McKee make changes to the law through order in
council - no consultation, no expert advice . . . .
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 05:28:03 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro ><[email protected]d> wrote:So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them?
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:09:23 +1200, BR wrote:
What are the facts?
Fact: Australia has proven that gun control can be made to work, and makes >>everybody safer.
What rubbish.
Criminals never give up their guns just because the government tells
them to. Only law abiding people do that. The Christchurch mosque was
gun free in March 2019. How did that work out for them?
Bill.
On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 05:11:58 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:Don't be so pathetically stupid. Bill is not saying that. Jeez you are nasty.
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 05:28:03 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >><[email protected]d> wrote:So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them?
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:09:23 +1200, BR wrote:
What are the facts?
Fact: Australia has proven that gun control can be made to work, and makes >>>everybody safer.
What rubbish.
Criminals never give up their guns just because the government tells
them to. Only law abiding people do that. The Christchurch mosque was
gun free in March 2019. How did that work out for them?
Bill.
Should people attending a church or mosque be safe from being shot,
Bill? What sort of a world do you want our children to live in? Do you >normally carry a firearm? Do you think you should?
What if the government turns feral?
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 05:28:03 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:09:23 +1200, BR wrote:
What are the facts?
Fact: Australia has proven that gun control can be made to work, and
makes everybody safer.
What rubbish.
Criminals never give up their guns just because the government tells
them to.
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 07:22:15 -0000 (UTC), TonyGun law changes after the Christchurch shootings. Covid mandates and more.
<[email protected]> wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:09:23 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:As did Ardern. more than once.
On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 21:18:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >>>><[email protected]d> wrote:One fact is that this thread has diverged significantly from the first >>>post :
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR wrote:
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly >>>>>> after after the Christchurch massacre.
By whom, I wonder? What a load of content-free hot air.
Does it matter?
But then, there�s nothing right-wingers like better than to keep spouting >>>>>the same old tired ideology, no matter how much the facts stack up against >>>>>them.
What are the facts?
Bill.
__________________________
The Christchurch Muslim community has become so riled up, they have >>>joined Christians in a church to make their feelings known about the >>>Government�s attitude >>><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/07/govt-turning-its-back-on-victims-of-march-15-attack-imam-says/>.
One issue is the seeming rolling back of support services since the
2019 Ides of March massacre. Another issue is the threat of the same >>>thing happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has
a long connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince
anybody she can consider the issue with an unbiased eye. >>>__________________________
Now we have seen McKee make changes to the law through order in
council - no consultation, no expert advice . . . .
What examples do you have, Tony?
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:So you are not sure of even your own examples. For gun laws, there
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 07:22:15 -0000 (UTC), TonyGun law changes after the Christchurch shootings. Covid mandates and more. >Not sure of the process but there was zero consultation so it is the same >behaviour. Eh?
<[email protected]> wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:09:23 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:As did Ardern. more than once.
On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 21:18:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >>>>><[email protected]d> wrote:One fact is that this thread has diverged significantly from the first >>>>post :
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR wrote:
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly >>>>>>> after after the Christchurch massacre.
By whom, I wonder? What a load of content-free hot air.
Does it matter?
But then, there�s nothing right-wingers like better than to keep spouting >>>>>>the same old tired ideology, no matter how much the facts stack up against
them.
What are the facts?
Bill.
__________________________
The Christchurch Muslim community has become so riled up, they have >>>>joined Christians in a church to make their feelings known about the >>>>Government�s attitude >>>><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/07/govt-turning-its-back-on-victims-of-march-15-attack-imam-says/>.
One issue is the seeming rolling back of support services since the >>>>2019 Ides of March massacre. Another issue is the threat of the same >>>>thing happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has >>>>a long connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince >>>>anybody she can consider the issue with an unbiased eye. >>>>__________________________
Now we have seen McKee make changes to the law through order in
council - no consultation, no expert advice . . . .
What examples do you have, Tony?
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 19:47:43 -0000 (UTC), TonyOh don't be such a prissy little twerp. Can't you just debate?
<[email protected]> wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:So you are not sure of even your own examples.
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 07:22:15 -0000 (UTC), TonyGun law changes after the Christchurch shootings. Covid mandates and more. >>Not sure of the process but there was zero consultation so it is the same >>behaviour. Eh?
<[email protected]> wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:09:23 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:As did Ardern. more than once.
On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 21:18:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >>>>>><[email protected]d> wrote:One fact is that this thread has diverged significantly from the first >>>>>post :
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 18:07:11 +1200, BR wrote:
Now seems like a good time to post something that was posted shortly >>>>>>>> after after the Christchurch massacre.
By whom, I wonder? What a load of content-free hot air.
Does it matter?
But then, there�s nothing right-wingers like better than to keep >>>>>>>spouting
the same old tired ideology, no matter how much the facts stack up >>>>>>>against
them.
What are the facts?
Bill.
__________________________
The Christchurch Muslim community has become so riled up, they have >>>>>joined Christians in a church to make their feelings known about the >>>>>Government�s attitude >>>>><https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/07/govt-turning-its-back-on-victims-of-march-15-attack-imam-says/>.
One issue is the seeming rolling back of support services since the >>>>>2019 Ides of March massacre. Another issue is the threat of the same >>>>>thing happening to gun laws. The Minister concerned, Nicole McKee, has >>>>>a long connection with the gun lobby, and she has yet to convince >>>>>anybody she can consider the issue with an unbiased eye. >>>>>__________________________
Now we have seen McKee make changes to the law through order in >>>>>council - no consultation, no expert advice . . . .
What examples do you have, Tony?
For gun laws, thereOff topic.
had been considerable discussion about following Australia's actions
after a bad mass shooting there - they had taken actions very similar
to those adopted here in New Zealand - it had been a Liberal / Country >government that made the changes there. The use of that type of
firearm here brought home the reason why banning them made sense - the
change was not immediate but there was plenty of consultation.
Covid mandates were a government decision to allow some employers toOff topic.
insist on vaccination for employees; I suspect one of the first would
have been the government itself for defence forces and some nurses.
There was no blanket mandate; I know a construction firm that had
about 5% that did not get vaccinated; they were restricted in their
contacts but not required to vaccinate.
There was in fact considerable public support for the actions theOff topic.
previous government took during the Covid time, and also in relation
to the Mosque shootings - there is little support for McKee's
policies.
Just when you thought she couldn’t be any more slippery ...No context to your post - pointless waste of bandwidth.
<https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/16/firearms-minister-wont-rule-out-trying-to-bring-back-banned-guns/>
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them?Don't be so pathetically stupid.
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 19:46:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:Another p;ost with no useful context.
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them?Don't be so pathetically stupid.
A lot of pro-gun fanatics do say exactly that--they say that having more
guns around somehow makes people safer. Remember Trump addressing the NRA
in 2016, promising to abolish gun-free zones? Except the NRA convention
was itself a gun-free zone!
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 19:46:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them?Don't be so pathetically stupid.
A lot of pro-gun fanatics do say exactly that--they say that having more >>guns around somehow makes people safer. Remember Trump addressing the
NRA in 2016, promising to abolish gun-free zones? Except the NRA
convention was itself a gun-free zone!
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 01:50:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:I didn't post what you replied to, you have caught Rich's disease.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 19:46:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them? >>>>>Don't be so pathetically stupid.
A lot of pro-gun fanatics do say exactly that--they say that having more >>>guns around somehow makes people safer. Remember Trump addressing the
NRA in 2016, promising to abolish gun-free zones? Except the NRA >>>convention was itself a gun-free zone!
It’s just too easy to completely destroy the pro-gun position by pointing >to the US as an example every time. It’s an argument that people like you >can’t win.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:You really do love the little rules you make up, don't you Tony.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 01:50:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:I didn't post what you replied to, you have caught Rich's disease. >Additionally I have not at any time made comment in this thread about the USA >and their guns. Do try to keep up with simple conversations and reply to the >correct person.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 19:46:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them? >>>>>>Don't be so pathetically stupid.
A lot of pro-gun fanatics do say exactly that--they say that having more >>>>guns around somehow makes people safer. Remember Trump addressing the >>>>NRA in 2016, promising to abolish gun-free zones? Except the NRA >>>>convention was itself a gun-free zone!
It’s just too easy to completely destroy the pro-gun position by pointing >>to the US as an example every time. It’s an argument that people like you >>can’t win.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 01:50:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 19:46:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them? >>>>>Don't be so pathetically stupid.
A lot of pro-gun fanatics do say exactly that--they say that having more >>>guns around somehow makes people safer. Remember Trump addressing the
NRA in 2016, promising to abolish gun-free zones? Except the NRA >>>convention was itself a gun-free zone!
It�s just too easy to completely destroy the pro-gun position by pointing
to the US as an example every time. It�s an argument that people like you >can�t win.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 00:44:53 -0000 (UTC), TonyRemoved abusive and terrible English comment.
<[email protected]> wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 01:50:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:I didn't post what you replied to, you have caught Rich's disease. >>Additionally I have not at any time made comment in this thread about the USA >>and their guns. Do try to keep up with simple conversations and reply to the >>correct person.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 19:46:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them? >>>>>>>Don't be so pathetically stupid.
A lot of pro-gun fanatics do say exactly that--they say that having more >>>>>guns around somehow makes people safer. Remember Trump addressing the >>>>>NRA in 2016, promising to abolish gun-free zones? Except the NRA >>>>>convention was itself a gun-free zone!
It’s just too easy to completely destroy the pro-gun position by pointing >>>to the US as an example every time. It’s an argument that people like you >>>can’t win.
nz.general is a group discussion forum, available to anyone that caresYou are simply stupid. Lawrence clearly addressed me, not the group. He was wrong to do so and you are wrong to support him. There is no justification for that. You are both wrong. And you are a coward because you use that technique to deliberately hide.
to connect. Many responses are general comments, just as would happen
in a verbal discussion - they may relate to the previous post but they
do not need to - some people just believe they have a worthwhile
contribution to make. others of course seek a hierarchy in everything >(preferably with themselves at the top - which they seldom deserve).
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 00:44:53 -0000 (UTC), TonyRemoved abusive and terrible English comment.
<[email protected]> wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 01:50:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:I didn't post what you replied to, you have caught Rich's disease. >>>Additionally I have not at any time made comment in this thread about the USA
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 19:46:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them? >>>>>>>>Don't be so pathetically stupid.
A lot of pro-gun fanatics do say exactly that--they say that having more >>>>>>guns around somehow makes people safer. Remember Trump addressing the >>>>>>NRA in 2016, promising to abolish gun-free zones? Except the NRA >>>>>>convention was itself a gun-free zone!
It’s just too easy to completely destroy the pro-gun position by pointing >>>>to the US as an example every time. It’s an argument that people like you >>>>can’t win.
and their guns. Do try to keep up with simple conversations and reply to the >>>correct person.
nz.general is a group discussion forum, available to anyone that caresYou are simply stupid. Lawrence clearly addressed me, not the group. He was >wrong to do so and you are wrong to support him. There is no justification for >that. You are both wrong. And you are a coward because you use that technique >to deliberately hide.
to connect. Many responses are general comments, just as would happen
in a verbal discussion - they may relate to the previous post but they
do not need to - some people just believe they have a worthwhile >>contribution to make. others of course seek a hierarchy in everything >>(preferably with themselves at the top - which they seldom deserve).
Off topic crap gone.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 07:17:22 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 00:44:53 -0000 (UTC), TonyRemoved abusive and terrible English comment.
<[email protected]> wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 01:50:37 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:I didn't post what you replied to, you have caught Rich's disease. >>>>Additionally I have not at any time made comment in this thread about the >>>>USA
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 19:46:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:
Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
So are you advocating that everyone should carry a firearm with them? >>>>>>>>>Don't be so pathetically stupid.
A lot of pro-gun fanatics do say exactly that--they say that having more >>>>>>>guns around somehow makes people safer. Remember Trump addressing the >>>>>>>NRA in 2016, promising to abolish gun-free zones? Except the NRA >>>>>>>convention was itself a gun-free zone!
It’s just too easy to completely destroy the pro-gun position by >>>>>pointing
to the US as an example every time. It’s an argument that people like >>>>>you
can’t win.
and their guns. Do try to keep up with simple conversations and reply to >>>>the
correct person.
You poor little queer, I said nothing of the sort.nz.general is a group discussion forum, available to anyone that caresYou are simply stupid. Lawrence clearly addressed me, not the group. He was >>wrong to do so and you are wrong to support him. There is no justification >>for
to connect. Many responses are general comments, just as would happen
in a verbal discussion - they may relate to the previous post but they
do not need to - some people just believe they have a worthwhile >>>contribution to make. others of course seek a hierarchy in everything >>>(preferably with themselves at the top - which they seldom deserve).
that. You are both wrong. And you are a coward because you use that technique >>to deliberately hide.
You are addressing me rather than the group, Tony, having just said
that to address an individual is wrong
- you really are very confused.
Off topic crap gone.
The murder capital of the US is Chicago.
Under the previous National Government, McKee was hired to give adviceAnd you have no evidence to support your statements. What a waste of bandwidth.
to Police Minister Paula Bennett on a select committee report on
illegal gun ownership in NZ. There was a loophole in the law at the
time which was later exploited by Shooty McShootFace* to kill those 50
people on the Ides of March.
McKee keeps insisting that she recommended the Government close that
loophole at the time, and that she made the recommendation at every
available opportunity. Such a tightening never happened, and there is
nothing to back up her claim -- her own written advice to the
Government never mentioned it, and even Bennett has no recollection of >receiving such advice from her.
Apparently McKee’s job was as a “firearms safety specialist” ... as if >“firearms safety” were not an oxymoron ...That is not all you have in common with the liar.
<https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/10/06/checking-the-record-on-firearms-ministers-qa-interview/>
*Like Ardern, I won’t say his name either.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:The link is given below, Tony. Try reading all of a post before
Under the previous National Government, McKee was hired to give adviceAnd you have no evidence to support your statements. What a waste of bandwidth.
to Police Minister Paula Bennett on a select committee report on
illegal gun ownership in NZ. There was a loophole in the law at the
time which was later exploited by Shooty McShootFace* to kill those 50 >>people on the Ides of March.
McKee keeps insisting that she recommended the Government close that >>loophole at the time, and that she made the recommendation at every >>available opportunity. Such a tightening never happened, and there is >>nothing to back up her claim -- her own written advice to the
Government never mentioned it, and even Bennett has no recollection of >>receiving such advice from her.
That is not all you have in common with the liar.
Apparently McKee’s job was as a “firearms safety specialist�? ... as if >>“firearms safety�? were not an oxymoron ...
<https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/10/06/checking-the-record-on-firearms-ministers-qa-interview/>
*Like Ardern, I won’t say his name either.
On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 18:53:12 -0000 (UTC), TonyI did and there is no evidence. Try reading before you become stupidly hasty.
<[email protected]> wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:The link is given below, Tony. Try reading all of a post before
Under the previous National Government, McKee was hired to give adviceAnd you have no evidence to support your statements. What a waste of >>bandwidth.
to Police Minister Paula Bennett on a select committee report on
illegal gun ownership in NZ. There was a loophole in the law at the
time which was later exploited by Shooty McShootFace* to kill those 50 >>>people on the Ides of March.
McKee keeps insisting that she recommended the Government close that >>>loophole at the time, and that she made the recommendation at every >>>available opportunity. Such a tightening never happened, and there is >>>nothing to back up her claim -- her own written advice to the
Government never mentioned it, and even Bennett has no recollection of >>>receiving such advice from her.
getting it wrong . . .
That is not all you have in common with the liar.
Apparently McKee’s job was as a “firearms safety specialist�? ... as if >>>“firearms safety�? were not an oxymoron ...
<https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/10/06/checking-the-record-on-firearms-ministers-qa-interview/>
*Like Ardern, I won’t say his name either.
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