• Coal & Gas to NZ's Rescue!

    From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 5 21:37:16 2024
    Yes, it's coal & gas keeping our electricity going this winter. As I
    write this, coal is running at 90% of capacity and gas is at 65% of
    capacity. Wind is 10% of capacity, its same dismal performance of the
    past week. Solar & battery are irrelevant. Hydro is running at 71%
    of capacity, more than they want to do, but Wind just isn't a team
    player. Stop building the damn wind turbines, they're useless and
    only increase our electric bills!

    https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Willy Nilly on Mon Aug 5 22:36:33 2024
    On 2024-08-05, Willy Nilly <[email protected]> wrote:
    Yes, it's coal & gas keeping our electricity going this winter. As I
    write this, coal is running at 90% of capacity and gas is at 65% of
    capacity. Wind is 10% of capacity, its same dismal performance of the
    past week. Solar & battery are irrelevant. Hydro is running at 71%
    of capacity, more than they want to do, but Wind just isn't a team
    player. Stop building the damn wind turbines, they're useless and
    only increase our electric bills!

    https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data

    NZ gas supply is only 75% of what it was 5 years ago, so the gas is also not playing its part and starting to fade.

    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the lights on.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to Gordon on Mon Aug 5 23:58:05 2024
    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the >lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry
    contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps
    churning away at 90% of its capacity: https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Willy Nilly on Tue Aug 6 17:58:24 2024
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the >>lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry
    contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps
    churning away at 90% of its capacity: >https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite
    correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for
    high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating
    Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments
    not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity
    to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for
    generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect
    some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill,
    just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a
    government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get
    away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Aug 6 20:08:27 2024
    On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 07:33:06 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the >>>>lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry >>>contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps >>>churning away at 90% of its capacity: >>>https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite >>correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for
    high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating
    Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments
    not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity
    to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for >>generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect
    some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill,
    just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a >>government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get
    away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?
    More abusive sarcasm from the poster that makes no attempt to address the >content at all. Yes Rich that is you, not Willy.
    You are off topic with your abuse of other posters, Tony. I was
    responding to a post about the value of Coal and Gas in generating
    electricity in New Zealand - and pointing out the value inherent in
    the design of the system all those years ago. What so you think (if
    anything) should be done about our system of delivering electricity,
    Tony?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Aug 6 07:33:06 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the >>>lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry >>contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps >>churning away at 90% of its capacity: >>https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite
    correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for
    high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating
    Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments
    not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity
    to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for
    generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect
    some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill,
    just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a
    government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get
    away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?
    More abusive sarcasm from the poster that makes no attempt to address the content at all. Yes Rich that is you, not Willy.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 7 07:56:26 2024
    On Tue, 06 Aug 2024 17:58:24 +1200, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the >>>lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry >>contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps >>churning away at 90% of its capacity: >>https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite
    correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for
    high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating
    Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments
    not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity
    to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for
    generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect
    some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill,
    just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a
    government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get
    away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Yet again you roll out the same old sarcastic dismissal of the
    'Bradford reforms', willfully ignoring that these were a continuation
    of reforms started in the 'Rogernomics' era. You also willfully
    ignore that several Labour governments have failed to address these
    issues yet you never mention that failure.

    With the exception of Contact Energy, all electricity generation is
    controlled by SOEs, some of which have minority private ownership,
    sold by the National government of the day to pay back government debt
    that had spiked upwards because of the recovery work required after
    the Christchurch earthquakes.

    Don't let the facts, or the failure of Labour governments before and
    since, get in the way of your political rhetoric Rich. Its all you
    have.

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Aug 6 21:17:08 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 07:33:06 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the >>>>>lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry >>>>contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps >>>>churning away at 90% of its capacity: >>>>https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite >>>correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for >>>high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating >>>Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments
    not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity
    to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for >>>generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect >>>some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill, >>>just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a >>>government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get >>>away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?
    More abusive sarcasm from the poster that makes no attempt to address the >>content at all. Yes Rich that is you, not Willy.
    You are off topic with your abuse of other posters, Tony. I was
    responding to a post about the value of Coal and Gas in generating >electricity in New Zealand - and pointing out the value inherent in
    the design of the system all those years ago. What so you think (if
    anything) should be done about our system of delivering electricity,
    Tony?
    No you were not. That is a lie. You posted sarcastic and completely inappropriate off-topic abuse.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Aug 7 00:11:25 2024
    On 2024-08-06, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 07:33:06 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the >>>>>lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry >>>>contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps >>>>churning away at 90% of its capacity: >>>>https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite >>>correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for >>>high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating >>>Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments
    not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity
    to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for >>>generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect >>>some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill, >>>just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a >>>government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get >>>away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?
    More abusive sarcasm from the poster that makes no attempt to address the >>content at all. Yes Rich that is you, not Willy.
    You are off topic with your abuse of other posters, Tony. I was
    responding to a post about the value of Coal and Gas in generating electricity in New Zealand - and pointing out the value inherent in
    the design of the system all those years ago. What so you think (if
    anything) should be done about our system of delivering electricity,
    Tony?

    How about we how a discussion on building a nuclear power plant.

    After all there are 60 underconstruction world wide with a capacity of
    62.637 GW

    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/OperationalReactorsByCountry.aspx

    A good starting page for most things nuclear power plant wise. (Above Link)

    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/NuclearShareofElectricityGeneration.aspx

    World nuclear power production.

    Capacity 364.480 GW
    Generated 2.55206711 PWh (2552067.11 GWh)

    Aplogies for straying slightly off topic.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 7 23:30:17 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    On 2024-08-06, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 07:33:06 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the
    lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry >>>>contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps >>>>churning away at 90% of its capacity: >>>>https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite >>>correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for >>>high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was >>>designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating >>>Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have >>>Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments >>>not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity >>>to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for >>>generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect >>>some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill, >>>just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was >>>also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a >>>government that puts profits before people, this is really, really >>>good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get >>>away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?
    More abusive sarcasm from the poster that makes no attempt to address the >>content at all. Yes Rich that is you, not Willy.
    You are off topic with your abuse of other posters, Tony. I was
    responding to a post about the value of Coal and Gas in generating electricity in New Zealand - and pointing out the value inherent in
    the design of the system all those years ago. What so you think (if anything) should be done about our system of delivering electricity,
    Tony?

    How about we how a discussion on building a nuclear power plant.

    After all there are 60 underconstruction world wide with a capacity of
    62.637 GW

    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/OperationalReactorsByCountry.aspx

    A good starting page for most things nuclear power plant wise. (Above Link)

    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/NuclearShareofElectricityGeneration.aspx

    World nuclear power production.

    Capacity 364.480 GW
    Generated 2.55206711 PWh (2552067.11 GWh)

    Aplogies for straying slightly off topic.

    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    Also there is the cost - they're extraordinarily expensive and time
    consuming to build even in countries that have a nuclear industry. I
    doubt any company here could afford to build one - it would have to be a government project from start to finish.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 8 07:45:48 2024
    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024 23:30:17 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    On 2024-08-06, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 07:33:06 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep the
    lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry
    contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps
    churning away at 90% of its capacity:
    https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite
    correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for
    high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating
    Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments
    not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity
    to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for
    generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect
    some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill,
    just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a
    government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get
    away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?
    More abusive sarcasm from the poster that makes no attempt to address the >> >>content at all. Yes Rich that is you, not Willy.
    You are off topic with your abuse of other posters, Tony. I was
    responding to a post about the value of Coal and Gas in generating
    electricity in New Zealand - and pointing out the value inherent in
    the design of the system all those years ago. What so you think (if
    anything) should be done about our system of delivering electricity,
    Tony?

    How about we how a discussion on building a nuclear power plant.

    After all there are 60 underconstruction world wide with a capacity of
    62.637 GW

    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/OperationalReactorsByCountry.aspx >>
    A good starting page for most things nuclear power plant wise. (Above Link) >>
    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/NuclearShareofElectricityGeneration.aspx

    World nuclear power production.

    Capacity 364.480 GW
    Generated 2.55206711 PWh (2552067.11 GWh)

    Aplogies for straying slightly off topic.

    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    Also there is the cost - they're extraordinarily expensive and time
    consuming to build even in countries that have a nuclear industry. I
    doubt any company here could afford to build one - it would have to be a >government project from start to finish.

    I was aware of an investigation in the late 1960s - while technology
    has changed significantly since then, the biggest problems were
    Earthquakes, and disposal of waste. Later there were concerned about inconsistency with our anti-nuclear weapon stance, even though that
    had not technically referred to domestic power generation. Winston
    Peters has not yet decided on our foreign policy regarding AUKUS; if
    he decides to go that way our attitude to nuclear power may change,
    but the danger relating to earthquakes would remain.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Wed Aug 7 20:07:17 2024
    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    On 2024-08-06, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 07:33:06 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep >> >>>>>the
    lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry
    contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps
    churning away at 90% of its capacity:

    https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite
    correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for
    high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating
    Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments
    not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity
    to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for
    generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect
    some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill,
    just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a
    government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get
    away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?
    More abusive sarcasm from the poster that makes no attempt to address the >> >>content at all. Yes Rich that is you, not Willy.
    You are off topic with your abuse of other posters, Tony. I was
    responding to a post about the value of Coal and Gas in generating
    electricity in New Zealand - and pointing out the value inherent in
    the design of the system all those years ago. What so you think (if
    anything) should be done about our system of delivering electricity,
    Tony?

    How about we how a discussion on building a nuclear power plant.

    After all there are 60 underconstruction world wide with a capacity of
    62.637 GW

    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/OperationalReactorsByCountry.aspx >>
    A good starting page for most things nuclear power plant wise. (Above Link) >>
    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/NuclearShareofElectricityGeneration.aspx

    World nuclear power production.

    Capacity 364.480 GW
    Generated 2.55206711 PWh (2552067.11 GWh)

    Aplogies for straying slightly off topic.

    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    Also there is the cost - they're extraordinarily expensive and time
    consuming to build even in countries that have a nuclear industry. I
    doubt any company here could afford to build one - it would have to be a >government project from start to finish.
    We might feel different when fusion technology is readily available. It is no longer a theory, there are small fusion plants in operation today.
    They remove the concern over earthquakes and waste and cannot melt down.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 8 08:45:19 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    On 2024-08-06, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 07:33:06 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and keep >> >>>>>the
    lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry
    contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps
    churning away at 90% of its capacity:

    https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite
    correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for >> >>>high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating
    Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments >> >>>not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity >> >>>to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for
    generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect >> >>>some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill, >> >>>just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a
    government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get >> >>>away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?
    More abusive sarcasm from the poster that makes no attempt to address the
    content at all. Yes Rich that is you, not Willy.
    You are off topic with your abuse of other posters, Tony. I was
    responding to a post about the value of Coal and Gas in generating
    electricity in New Zealand - and pointing out the value inherent in
    the design of the system all those years ago. What so you think (if
    anything) should be done about our system of delivering electricity,
    Tony?

    How about we how a discussion on building a nuclear power plant.

    After all there are 60 underconstruction world wide with a capacity of
    62.637 GW

    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/OperationalReactorsByCountry.aspx

    A good starting page for most things nuclear power plant wise. (Above Link)

    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/NuclearShareofElectricityGeneration.aspx

    World nuclear power production.

    Capacity 364.480 GW
    Generated 2.55206711 PWh (2552067.11 GWh)

    Aplogies for straying slightly off topic.

    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it >when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for >the better part of a month every few years.

    Also there is the cost - they're extraordinarily expensive and time >consuming to build even in countries that have a nuclear industry. I
    doubt any company here could afford to build one - it would have to be a >government project from start to finish.
    We might feel different when fusion technology is readily available. It is no longer a theory, there are small fusion plants in operation today.
    They remove the concern over earthquakes and waste and cannot melt down.

    Running is perhaps a bit of a stretch - I don't think any fusion reactor
    has run for more than two minutes yet, and its only quite recently that
    one produced more power than it consumed for the brief time it was
    running. Commercialisation is probably still a few decades away.

    But progress is progress and fusion may become a viable option one day.
    When that day comes I assume we'll build it if it makes economic sense.
    I expect we'd do the same with Fission power too if it ever made
    economic sense here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Wed Aug 7 22:07:28 2024
    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies
    totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the
    frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 8 10:19:03 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it >when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for >the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies
    totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the
    frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    Its much easier to build backup for a 3MW wind turbine than a 500MW
    nuclear reactor.

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.


    I see. So we build two reactors and one of those reactors sits idle for
    two years until refueling time when we swap over? Seems rather
    expensive...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Thu Aug 8 01:05:33 2024
    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    On 2024-08-06, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 07:33:06 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >> >> >>>
    On 5 Aug 2024 22:36:33 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    Having built the wind capacity we might as well take the 10% and
    keep
    the
    lights on.

    Wind contributes nothing to keeping the lights on -- its paltry
    contribution is trivially replaced by hydro & gas, while coal keeps >> >> >>>>churning away at 90% of its capacity:


    https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data


    Well done on spotting the problem early, Willy Nilly. You are quite >> >> >>>correct that Coal is being used today - and yes it is still needed for >> >> >>>high demand situations. The system is working exactly as it was
    designed to work - enabling all generators to enjoy a higher spot
    price - expect to see a rise in electricity bills. The Generating
    Companies all benefit of course which some of those that do have
    Resource Consent for more Wind and Solar have left those developments >> >> >>>not started - too much wind generation just restricts the opportunity >> >> >>>to profit from times when Coal is needed. It is a good system for
    generating profit, and National must be very pleased as I would expect >> >> >>>some of their political donors will have held shares in those
    companies for a long time, and seen really good yields.

    So if you get a bit startled by the increase in your electricity bill, >> >> >>>just say a small thanks to Bradford, who set up the system that was
    also helped by a cheap sell off of Gen company shares. I you are a
    government that puts profits before people, this is really, really
    good! Well done Luxon, - but how many times do you think he can get >> >> >>>away with such handouts at your expense before even National
    supporters get a bit upset?

    Do you have a connection with the industry, Willy Nilly?
    More abusive sarcasm from the poster that makes no attempt to address >> >> >>the
    content at all. Yes Rich that is you, not Willy.
    You are off topic with your abuse of other posters, Tony. I was
    responding to a post about the value of Coal and Gas in generating
    electricity in New Zealand - and pointing out the value inherent in
    the design of the system all those years ago. What so you think (if
    anything) should be done about our system of delivering electricity,
    Tony?

    How about we how a discussion on building a nuclear power plant.

    After all there are 60 underconstruction world wide with a capacity of
    62.637 GW


    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/OperationalReactorsByCountry.aspx

    A good starting page for most things nuclear power plant wise. (Above
    Link)



    https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/NuclearShareofElectricityGeneration.aspx

    World nuclear power production.

    Capacity 364.480 GW
    Generated 2.55206711 PWh (2552067.11 GWh)

    Aplogies for straying slightly off topic.

    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    Also there is the cost - they're extraordinarily expensive and time
    consuming to build even in countries that have a nuclear industry. I
    doubt any company here could afford to build one - it would have to be a
    government project from start to finish.
    We might feel different when fusion technology is readily available. It is >>no
    longer a theory, there are small fusion plants in operation today.
    They remove the concern over earthquakes and waste and cannot melt down.

    Running is perhaps a bit of a stretch - I don't think any fusion reactor
    has run for more than two minutes yet, and its only quite recently that
    one produced more power than it consumed for the brief time it was
    running. Commercialisation is probably still a few decades away.

    But progress is progress and fusion may become a viable option one day.
    When that day comes I assume we'll build it if it makes economic sense.
    I expect we'd do the same with Fission power too if it ever made
    economic sense here.
    I doubt that fission power will ever happen here. Too many people cannot distinguish between it and our anti-nuclear stance, and too many believe that our geology precludes it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Willy Nilly on Thu Aug 8 14:11:37 2024
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it >>when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for >>the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies
    totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the
    frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status
    - and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Willy Nilly on Thu Aug 8 14:39:51 2024
    On Thu, 08 Aug 2024 02:16:43 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    I see.

    No, you do not see, at all.

    So we build two reactors and one of those reactors sits idle for
    two years until refueling time when we swap over? Seems rather
    expensive...

    No, they both run except when one is taken down for maintenance, duh.

    So what percentage of time does a generator need for maintenance,
    Willy Nilly?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Thu Aug 8 02:16:43 2024
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    I see.

    No, you do not see, at all.

    So we build two reactors and one of those reactors sits idle for
    two years until refueling time when we swap over? Seems rather
    expensive...

    No, they both run except when one is taken down for maintenance, duh.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 8 03:45:01 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it >>>when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more >>>is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for >>>the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies >>totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the >>frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >>defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status
    - and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always referred to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 8 17:13:37 2024
    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it >>>when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more >>>is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for >>>the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies >>totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the >>frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >>defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status
    - and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always referred to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the
    money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking,
    standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember
    it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could
    put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that
    effect.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 8 17:26:33 2024
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it >> >>>when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more >> >>>is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for >> >>>the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies
    totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the
    frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a
    defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status
    - and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the
    money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking,
    standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember
    it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could
    put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that
    effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If
    the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear
    weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made
    the understandable decision not to make such a statement

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Thu Aug 8 05:44:36 2024
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    Ok, and when you take one of the 500MW reactors out of operation for >maintenance, where do we magic up that 500MW of baseload generation
    from?

    On the power grid supply and demand must always match exactly. If you
    take a 500MW reactor off the grid for maintenance then either total
    demand on the grid must be reduced by 500MW, or we have to turn on
    another 500MW of generation somewhere else to fill the gap.

    That means having 500MW of generation *spare*. Generation that we know
    for certain wouldn't otherwise be required to meet demand during the
    nuclear reactors nearly month long maintenance and refuelling window. A
    500MW power plant that normally isn't making any money.

    On top of that 500MW of spare generation to fill in for the offline
    nuclear reactor, we'd also need additional spare generation ready to
    step in at a moments notice if the next largest generator - probably the >other 500MW reactor - unexpected went offline.

    Geez, what drivel. Hasn't been a problem for all the countries that
    do use nuclear. Also, the new breed of nuclear reactors -- the kind
    that re-use nuclear fuel until that fuel is almost inert -- are
    entirely scaleable to produce more or less output as needed, and can
    be custom-built to whatever maximum output is desired. Do try to keep
    up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 8 17:20:48 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    I see.

    No, you do not see, at all.

    So we build two reactors and one of those reactors sits idle for
    two years until refueling time when we swap over? Seems rather
    expensive...

    No, they both run except when one is taken down for maintenance, duh.

    Ok, and when you take one of the 500MW reactors out of operation for maintenance, where do we magic up that 500MW of baseload generation
    from?

    On the power grid supply and demand must always match exactly. If you
    take a 500MW reactor off the grid for maintenance then either total
    demand on the grid must be reduced by 500MW, or we have to turn on
    another 500MW of generation somewhere else to fill the gap.

    That means having 500MW of generation *spare*. Generation that we know
    for certain wouldn't otherwise be required to meet demand during the
    nuclear reactors nearly month long maintenance and refuelling window. A
    500MW power plant that normally isn't making any money.

    On top of that 500MW of spare generation to fill in for the offline
    nuclear reactor, we'd also need additional spare generation ready to
    step in at a moments notice if the next largest generator - probably the
    other 500MW reactor - unexpected went offline.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 8 07:50:49 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected] >>says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it >>> >>>when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more >>> >>>is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for >>> >>>the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies
    totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the
    frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >>> >>defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status
    - and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always >>>referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the
    money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking,
    standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember
    it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could
    put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >>generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that >>effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If
    the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear >weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made
    the understandable decision not to make such a statement
    Well done, you finally got it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 8 20:08:27 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, Rich80105
    @hotmail.com says...

    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected] >says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more >> >>>is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies
    totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the
    frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >> >>defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status
    - and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the
    money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking,
    standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember
    it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could
    put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that >effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If
    the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made
    the understandable decision not to make such a statement

    The ban also includes nuclear *powered* ships at the very least, whether they're capable of carrying nuclear weapons or not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 8 20:07:37 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    Ok, and when you take one of the 500MW reactors out of operation for >maintenance, where do we magic up that 500MW of baseload generation
    from?

    On the power grid supply and demand must always match exactly. If you
    take a 500MW reactor off the grid for maintenance then either total
    demand on the grid must be reduced by 500MW, or we have to turn on
    another 500MW of generation somewhere else to fill the gap.

    That means having 500MW of generation *spare*. Generation that we know
    for certain wouldn't otherwise be required to meet demand during the >nuclear reactors nearly month long maintenance and refuelling window. A >500MW power plant that normally isn't making any money.

    On top of that 500MW of spare generation to fill in for the offline
    nuclear reactor, we'd also need additional spare generation ready to
    step in at a moments notice if the next largest generator - probably the >other 500MW reactor - unexpected went offline.

    Geez, what drivel. Hasn't been a problem for all the countries that
    do use nuclear.

    The other countries that do nuclear have much larger populations and
    much larger power grids than we do. They can often import power from
    their neighbours if need be.

    Supply on the grid must always match demand, no exceptions. If a 500MW generator goes off suddenly then you have moments to either bring up
    500MW of new generation or shed 500MW of load. If you cant do one of
    these things fast enough you risk cascading failure and grid collapse.

    Also, the new breed of nuclear reactors -- the kind
    that re-use nuclear fuel until that fuel is almost inert -- are
    entirely scaleable to produce more or less output as needed, and can
    be custom-built to whatever maximum output is desired. Do try to keep
    up.

    Breeder reactors are not new technology, but they are also not common.
    The few that are operating are all unique custom designs, mostly for
    research purposes. They're not the sort of thing you can just buy from Westinghose.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 8 20:50:42 2024
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 07:50:49 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more >>>> >>>is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies >>>> >>totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the
    frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >>>> >>defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status >>>> >- and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always >>>>referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the >>>money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking,
    standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember >>>it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could >>>put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >>>generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that >>>effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If
    the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear >>weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made
    the understandable decision not to make such a statement
    Well done, you finally got it.

    Happy to have educated you, Tony.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 8 09:22:21 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 07:50:49 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>>>> >
    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces >>>>> >>>it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or >>>>> >>>more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go >>>>> >>>for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies >>>>> >>totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the >>>>> >>frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >>>>> >>defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status >>>>> >- and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always >>>>>referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the >>>>money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking, >>>>standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember >>>>it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could >>>>put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >>>>generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that >>>>effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If
    the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear >>>weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made
    the understandable decision not to make such a statement
    Well done, you finally got it.

    Happy to have educated you, Tony.
    OK so you didn't get it after all.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 8 22:45:58 2024
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:22:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 07:50:49 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin >>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>>says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>>>>> >
    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces >>>>>> >>>it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or >>>>>> >>>more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go >>>>>> >>>for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies >>>>>> >>totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the >>>>>> >>frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >>>>>> >>defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a >>>>>> >>time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status >>>>>> >- and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always >>>>>>referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the >>>>>money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking, >>>>>standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember >>>>>it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could >>>>>put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >>>>>generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that >>>>>effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If
    the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear >>>>weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made >>>>the understandable decision not to make such a statement
    Well done, you finally got it.

    Happy to have educated you, Tony.
    OK so you didn't get it after all.
    I am sorry you remain uneducated then Tony.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 8 23:34:22 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:22:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 07:50:49 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>>>says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>>>>>> >
    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what
    replaces
    it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or >>>>>>> >>>more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go >>>>>>> >>>for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies >>>>>>> >>totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the >>>>>>> >>frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a
    defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has >>>>>>> >>multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a >>>>>>> >>time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status >>>>>>> >- and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always >>>>>>>referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the >>>>>>money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking, >>>>>>standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember >>>>>>it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could >>>>>>put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >>>>>>generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that >>>>>>effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If >>>>>the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear >>>>>weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made >>>>>the understandable decision not to make such a statement
    Well done, you finally got it.

    Happy to have educated you, Tony.
    OK so you didn't get it after all.
    I am sorry you remain uneducated then Tony.
    My education standards and achievements surpass yours by a massive amount. You are quite simply dumb and you show it here every day.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Willy Nilly on Thu Aug 8 23:58:37 2024
    On 2024-08-08, Willy Nilly <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    Ok, and when you take one of the 500MW reactors out of operation for >>maintenance, where do we magic up that 500MW of baseload generation
    from?

    On the power grid supply and demand must always match exactly. If you
    take a 500MW reactor off the grid for maintenance then either total
    demand on the grid must be reduced by 500MW, or we have to turn on
    another 500MW of generation somewhere else to fill the gap.

    That means having 500MW of generation *spare*. Generation that we know
    for certain wouldn't otherwise be required to meet demand during the >>nuclear reactors nearly month long maintenance and refuelling window. A >>500MW power plant that normally isn't making any money.

    On top of that 500MW of spare generation to fill in for the offline
    nuclear reactor, we'd also need additional spare generation ready to
    step in at a moments notice if the next largest generator - probably the >>other 500MW reactor - unexpected went offline.

    Geez, what drivel. Hasn't been a problem for all the countries that
    do use nuclear. Also, the new breed of nuclear reactors -- the kind
    that re-use nuclear fuel until that fuel is almost inert -- are
    entirely scaleable to produce more or less output as needed, and can
    be custom-built to whatever maximum output is desired. Do try to keep
    up.


    This is a issue in general. People's knowledge does not get updated. The poulation of countries, new ways of building etc. for examples.

    This leads to the cutting edge folks having to update the rest of the folks.

    Think about it, it has been 79 years since the nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan. In that time there has been development, both for destructive and peaceful purposes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 8 23:44:53 2024
    On 2024-08-08, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected] >>says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces it >>> >>>when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or more >>> >>>is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go for >>> >>>the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies
    totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the
    frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >>> >>defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a
    time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status
    - and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the
    money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking,
    standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember
    it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could
    put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >>generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that >>effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If
    the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made
    the understandable decision not to make such a statement

    At the "start", public opinion was around nuclear weapons. Public opinion agreed with this then the debate shifted to nuclear powered war ships which were banned.

    The neither confirm no deny stance came from the question of whther or not a non nuclear powered war ship carried nuclear weapons.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Tony on Thu Aug 8 23:46:21 2024
    On 2024-08-08, Tony <[email protected]> wrote:
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 07:50:49 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin >>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>>says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>>>>> >
    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what replaces >>>>>> >>>it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or >>>>>> >>>more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go >>>>>> >>>for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies >>>>>> >>totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the >>>>>> >>frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a >>>>>> >>defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has
    multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a >>>>>> >>time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status >>>>>> >- and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always >>>>>>referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the >>>>>money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking, >>>>>standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember >>>>>it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could >>>>>put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >>>>>generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that >>>>>effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If
    the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear >>>>weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made >>>>the understandable decision not to make such a statement
    Well done, you finally got it.

    Happy to have educated you, Tony.
    OK so you didn't get it after all.

    We live in hope.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Gordon on Fri Aug 9 00:31:14 2024
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-08-08, Tony <[email protected]> wrote:
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 07:50:49 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:37 +1200, David Goodwin >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <part1of1.1.Bto#[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>>>says...

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 22:07:28 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>>>>>> >
    On Wed, 7 Aug 2024, David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>The problem I've heard with Nuclear in New Zealand is - what
    replaces
    it
    when it needs to go offline for maintenance or refueling? 500MW or >>>>>>> >>>more
    is a lot of baseload generation to take out of service all in one go >>>>>>> >>>for
    the better part of a month every few years.

    i.e., anything worth doing should not be done. Your "point" applies >>>>>>> >>totally to wind generation as equivalent backup is required for the >>>>>>> >>frequent times of no-wind. So your "logic" is to apply this
    requirement to the *reliable* generators whilst ignoring this
    requirement for the *unreliable* generators. Your policy is that of a
    defective or sabotaged AI, you make no actual sense.

    So what have you got against Lake Onslow?

    Anyway, your "point" is crap because a nuclear site usually has >>>>>>> >>multiple generators of which only one needs to be maintained at a >>>>>>> >>time.

    Peters and Luxon appear to prefer us retaining our nuclear free status >>>>>>> >- and avoid the cost of a new nuclear power station . . .
    Nuclear free is not and never has been nuclear power free. It always >>>>>>>referred
    to nuclear weapons being kept away from this country.
    Making your comment nonsense.

    Indeed, AFAIK nuclear power is totally legal here. If you've got the >>>>>>money and a resource consent there is nothing, legally speaking, >>>>>>standing in your way.

    What *is* illegal, curiously, is nuclear powered ships. I don't remember >>>>>>it was ships specifically, or transport in general, but IIRC you could >>>>>>put a nuclear power plant on a barge, but it would be illegal to use the >>>>>>generated electricity to propel the barge or something silly to that >>>>>>effect.

    The ban was on vessels (ships or subs) carrying nuclear weapons. If >>>>>the USA had declared that a particular vessel was not carrying nuclear >>>>>weapons then it would have been allowed into our ports. The USA made >>>>>the understandable decision not to make such a statement
    Well done, you finally got it.

    Happy to have educated you, Tony.
    OK so you didn't get it after all.

    We live in hope.
    I admire your confidence. Sadly mistaken I believe.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)