• Time for a couple of decade plan for infrastructure

    From Gordon@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 22 23:56:11 2024
    https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350319784/country-broken-tough-questions-emerge-over-aratere-grounding

    It is a real problem when the country does not have enough money to keep up
    the maintaince on the Country's infrastructure.

    It is a case of the Governmet's of the past simply not planning and spending enough on the Country's infrastructure. Surely there is data around which
    says that roads, ferries, and other parts of the intrastructure says that
    they need to be replaced after x years of use.

    Private cars have WOF checks to see that all is well and if not they are recycled or scrapped.

    Tax cuts are nice to have, but then so is a country with infrastructure
    which is not fit for purpose.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to Gordon on Sun Jun 23 13:57:34 2024
    On 22 Jun 2024 23:56:11 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350319784/country-broken-tough-questions-emerge-over-aratere-grounding

    It is a real problem when the country does not have enough money to keep up >the maintaince on the Country's infrastructure.

    It is a case of the Governmet's of the past simply not planning and spending >enough on the Country's infrastructure. Surely there is data around which >says that roads, ferries, and other parts of the intrastructure says that >they need to be replaced after x years of use.

    Private cars have WOF checks to see that all is well and if not they are >recycled or scrapped.

    Tax cuts are nice to have, but then so is a country with infrastructure
    which is not fit for purpose.

    The article points out a number of infrastructure issues but is also
    factually incorrect in some areas. Kiwirail's IREX project, based on
    where the costs lay, was an upgrade to Port facilities with 2 new
    ferries bought on the side. It was a program to buy new ferries in
    name only because the new ferries could not be berthed at existing
    port facilities.

    I would expect the Government to direct Kiwirail to do 2 things now:
    come up with a detailed plan on maintenance required to the existing
    fleet for the next 10 years - and come up with a plan to replace
    existing ferries with newer (or new) ferries that can be berthed at
    existing port facilities. Upgrades to port facilities are not needed
    in this contact and this is where most of the cost of IREX lay.

    In respect of Transpower and the Northland outage the time to act is
    after the inquiries have been completed (as a matter of urgency).

    In respect of roading infrastructure there are already some
    initiatives being undertaken by the Government.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 23 15:42:05 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]d says...

    On 22 Jun 2024 23:56:11 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350319784/country-broken-tough-questions-emerge-over-aratere-grounding

    It is a real problem when the country does not have enough money to keep up >the maintaince on the Country's infrastructure.

    It is a case of the Governmet's of the past simply not planning and spending >enough on the Country's infrastructure. Surely there is data around which >says that roads, ferries, and other parts of the intrastructure says that >they need to be replaced after x years of use.

    Private cars have WOF checks to see that all is well and if not they are >recycled or scrapped.

    Tax cuts are nice to have, but then so is a country with infrastructure >which is not fit for purpose.

    The article points out a number of infrastructure issues but is also factually incorrect in some areas. Kiwirail's IREX project, based on
    where the costs lay, was an upgrade to Port facilities with 2 new
    ferries bought on the side. It was a program to buy new ferries in
    name only because the new ferries could not be berthed at existing
    port facilities.

    I would expect the Government to direct Kiwirail to do 2 things now:
    come up with a detailed plan on maintenance required to the existing
    fleet for the next 10 years - and come up with a plan to replace
    existing ferries with newer (or new) ferries that can be berthed at
    existing port facilities. Upgrades to port facilities are not needed
    in this contact and this is where most of the cost of IREX lay.

    Problem is KiwiRail wasn't upgrading the port facilities for fun. The
    port facilities were being replaced because what's there now is 60+
    years old, not earthquake safe and apparently approaching end of life.

    So separating ordering of the ferries from the port infrastructure
    doesn't get us out of this cost - it just lets us kick the can down the
    road a little while until the project is no doubt even more expensive
    and the need more desperate. Pretty much our standard approach to infrastructure.

    In respect of Transpower and the Northland outage the time to act is
    after the inquiries have been completed (as a matter of urgency).

    In respect of roading infrastructure there are already some
    initiatives being undertaken by the Government.

    Roading seems to be the one form of infrastructure that does reliably
    get investment whether it makes economic sense or not, so not too much
    to worry about there really.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 24 14:35:00 2024
    On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:42:05 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, >[email protected]d says...

    On 22 Jun 2024 23:56:11 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350319784/country-broken-tough-questions-emerge-over-aratere-grounding

    It is a real problem when the country does not have enough money to keep up >> >the maintaince on the Country's infrastructure.

    It is a case of the Governmet's of the past simply not planning and spending
    enough on the Country's infrastructure. Surely there is data around which >> >says that roads, ferries, and other parts of the intrastructure says that >> >they need to be replaced after x years of use.

    Private cars have WOF checks to see that all is well and if not they are
    recycled or scrapped.

    Tax cuts are nice to have, but then so is a country with infrastructure
    which is not fit for purpose.

    The article points out a number of infrastructure issues but is also
    factually incorrect in some areas. Kiwirail's IREX project, based on
    where the costs lay, was an upgrade to Port facilities with 2 new
    ferries bought on the side. It was a program to buy new ferries in
    name only because the new ferries could not be berthed at existing
    port facilities.

    I would expect the Government to direct Kiwirail to do 2 things now:
    come up with a detailed plan on maintenance required to the existing
    fleet for the next 10 years - and come up with a plan to replace
    existing ferries with newer (or new) ferries that can be berthed at
    existing port facilities. Upgrades to port facilities are not needed
    in this contact and this is where most of the cost of IREX lay.

    Problem is KiwiRail wasn't upgrading the port facilities for fun. The
    port facilities were being replaced because what's there now is 60+
    years old, not earthquake safe and apparently approaching end of life.

    So separating ordering of the ferries from the port infrastructure
    doesn't get us out of this cost - it just lets us kick the can down the
    road a little while until the project is no doubt even more expensive
    and the need more desperate. Pretty much our standard approach to >infrastructure.

    In respect of Transpower and the Northland outage the time to act is
    after the inquiries have been completed (as a matter of urgency).

    In respect of roading infrastructure there are already some
    initiatives being undertaken by the Government.

    Roading seems to be the one form of infrastructure that does reliably
    get investment whether it makes economic sense or not, so not too much
    to worry about there really.

    The media had reported that two ships were ordered by the previous
    government, but cancelled by the current government. The fault that
    occurred could have been much worse, but there can I believe be
    reasonable confidence that the current ship will last a year or so
    more - but it would probably be good if another was ordered - a shame
    that so much money will have been wasted on canceling a previous
    order.

    At the same time, there have from time to time been discussions about
    creating a new terminal on the coast north of Kaikoura - possibly
    somewhere in Cloudy Bay or Clifford Bay. It would be nearer to
    Christchurch and Blenheim, and importantly take a much shorter time at
    sea, but would require new wharf facilities. The local MP has a fairly
    small majority however, so don't expect any open thinking at this
    stage . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 24 02:55:51 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:42:05 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, >>[email protected]d says...

    On 22 Jun 2024 23:56:11 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:


    https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350319784/country-broken-tough-questions-emerge-over-aratere-grounding

    It is a real problem when the country does not have enough money to keep up
    the maintaince on the Country's infrastructure.

    It is a case of the Governmet's of the past simply not planning and
    spending
    enough on the Country's infrastructure. Surely there is data around which >>> >says that roads, ferries, and other parts of the intrastructure says that >>> >they need to be replaced after x years of use.

    Private cars have WOF checks to see that all is well and if not they are >>> >recycled or scrapped.

    Tax cuts are nice to have, but then so is a country with infrastructure >>> >which is not fit for purpose.

    The article points out a number of infrastructure issues but is also
    factually incorrect in some areas. Kiwirail's IREX project, based on
    where the costs lay, was an upgrade to Port facilities with 2 new
    ferries bought on the side. It was a program to buy new ferries in
    name only because the new ferries could not be berthed at existing
    port facilities.

    I would expect the Government to direct Kiwirail to do 2 things now:
    come up with a detailed plan on maintenance required to the existing
    fleet for the next 10 years - and come up with a plan to replace
    existing ferries with newer (or new) ferries that can be berthed at
    existing port facilities. Upgrades to port facilities are not needed
    in this contact and this is where most of the cost of IREX lay.

    Problem is KiwiRail wasn't upgrading the port facilities for fun. The
    port facilities were being replaced because what's there now is 60+
    years old, not earthquake safe and apparently approaching end of life.

    So separating ordering of the ferries from the port infrastructure
    doesn't get us out of this cost - it just lets us kick the can down the >>road a little while until the project is no doubt even more expensive
    and the need more desperate. Pretty much our standard approach to >>infrastructure.

    In respect of Transpower and the Northland outage the time to act is
    after the inquiries have been completed (as a matter of urgency).

    In respect of roading infrastructure there are already some
    initiatives being undertaken by the Government.

    Roading seems to be the one form of infrastructure that does reliably
    get investment whether it makes economic sense or not, so not too much
    to worry about there really.

    The media had reported that two ships were ordered by the previous >government, but cancelled by the current government. The fault that
    occurred could have been much worse, but there can I believe be
    reasonable confidence that the current ship will last a year or so
    more - but it would probably be good if another was ordered - a shame
    that so much money will have been wasted on canceling a previous
    order.
    Or saved! WHich is it? Do you have an analysis?

    At the same time, there have from time to time been discussions about >creating a new terminal on the coast north of Kaikoura - possibly
    somewhere in Cloudy Bay or Clifford Bay. It would be nearer to
    Christchurch and Blenheim, and importantly take a much shorter time at
    sea, but would require new wharf facilities. The local MP has a fairly
    small majority however, so don't expect any open thinking at this
    stage . . .
    We never do from you, so no fear of that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 24 15:40:08 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, Rich80105
    @hotmail.com says...

    On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:42:05 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, >[email protected]d says...

    On 22 Jun 2024 23:56:11 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350319784/country-broken-tough-questions-emerge-over-aratere-grounding

    It is a real problem when the country does not have enough money to keep up
    the maintaince on the Country's infrastructure.

    It is a case of the Governmet's of the past simply not planning and spending
    enough on the Country's infrastructure. Surely there is data around which >> >says that roads, ferries, and other parts of the intrastructure says that >> >they need to be replaced after x years of use.

    Private cars have WOF checks to see that all is well and if not they are >> >recycled or scrapped.

    Tax cuts are nice to have, but then so is a country with infrastructure >> >which is not fit for purpose.

    The article points out a number of infrastructure issues but is also
    factually incorrect in some areas. Kiwirail's IREX project, based on
    where the costs lay, was an upgrade to Port facilities with 2 new
    ferries bought on the side. It was a program to buy new ferries in
    name only because the new ferries could not be berthed at existing
    port facilities.

    I would expect the Government to direct Kiwirail to do 2 things now:
    come up with a detailed plan on maintenance required to the existing
    fleet for the next 10 years - and come up with a plan to replace
    existing ferries with newer (or new) ferries that can be berthed at
    existing port facilities. Upgrades to port facilities are not needed
    in this contact and this is where most of the cost of IREX lay.

    Problem is KiwiRail wasn't upgrading the port facilities for fun. The
    port facilities were being replaced because what's there now is 60+
    years old, not earthquake safe and apparently approaching end of life.

    So separating ordering of the ferries from the port infrastructure
    doesn't get us out of this cost - it just lets us kick the can down the >road a little while until the project is no doubt even more expensive
    and the need more desperate. Pretty much our standard approach to >infrastructure.

    In respect of Transpower and the Northland outage the time to act is
    after the inquiries have been completed (as a matter of urgency).

    In respect of roading infrastructure there are already some
    initiatives being undertaken by the Government.

    Roading seems to be the one form of infrastructure that does reliably
    get investment whether it makes economic sense or not, so not too much
    to worry about there really.

    The media had reported that two ships were ordered by the previous government, but cancelled by the current government. The fault that
    occurred could have been much worse, but there can I believe be
    reasonable confidence that the current ship will last a year or so
    more - but it would probably be good if another was ordered - a shame
    that so much money will have been wasted on canceling a previous
    order.

    At the same time, there have from time to time been discussions about creating a new terminal on the coast north of Kaikoura - possibly
    somewhere in Cloudy Bay or Clifford Bay. It would be nearer to
    Christchurch and Blenheim, and importantly take a much shorter time at
    sea, but would require new wharf facilities. The local MP has a fairly
    small majority however, so don't expect any open thinking at this
    stage . . .

    From what I've read it isn't the south island terminal thats the
    difficult or expensive one, though it is the one KiwiRail claims is
    closer to end of life.

    The Wellington end is where all the expense has been. Apparently there
    are significant earthquake hazards where they're trying to build the
    terminal, and they've had to raise the level of the site by 1m too. This
    is whats lead to the costs being so high.

    And the earthquake hazards of the current location are apparently part
    of the reason why KiwiRail chose not to build there in the first place.
    They were originally going to build the new terminal at Kings Wharf and
    this is what the original costs were all based on. But *everyone*
    complained and eventually KiwiRail gave up and in December 2020 decided
    to build the Wellington terminal at Kaiwharawhara instead.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)