• Cutting the top tax rate.

    From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 18 16:57:37 2024
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/519816/how-some-lower-income-households-could-end-up-with-a-128-percent-tax-rate#:~:text=Some%20lower%2Dincome%20families%20could,the%20Working%20for%20Families%20scheme.

    The headline is about how the situation could deteriorate to some
    effectively paying a top tax rate of 128.6% - but that would be in
    2027. That is not far away, but then this government is not exactly
    quick to work on some problems, because this is not a problem for the
    wealthy, but for those less well off. As the article says:

    "Baucher said many people would be surprised at the effective rates of
    tax that were being applied to people losing support from systems such
    as Working for Families.

    And while the government has lifted the in-work tax credit portion of
    the Working for Families package to $25 a week, the abatement
    threshold and abatement rate mean that on average most people will
    receive just under $17.

    "They're losing a third of it to abatement already, but the government
    will talk about 'yeah, you're getting $25 a week'."

    He said people who were earning less than $48,000 and getting Working
    for Families had an effective tax rate that was higher than the prime
    minister or finance minister.

    "It's a key point because you hear plenty of people saying 'people
    need to get off their arses and work' and it just doesn't work like
    that. It's not as simple as that. If you've got abatements you go
    backwards if you take on extra work, let alone if you're incurring
    extra costs such as travel and childcare." "

    Wouldn't it be good if the government would decide that the top
    effective tax rate for all taxpayers would be as low as 39% . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jun 18 21:10:57 2024
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    Wouldn't it be good if the government would decide that the top
    effective tax rate for all taxpayers would be as low as 39% . . .

    Just more lefty trash talk from Rich as historically National gives a
    top tax rate of 30% while Labour raises it to 39% -- being too
    cowardly to raise it to the 100% of their Marxist dreams.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jun 18 22:26:42 2024
    On 2024-06-18, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/519816/how-some-lower-income-households-could-end-up-with-a-128-percent-tax-rate#:~:text=Some%20lower%2Dincome%20families%20could,the%20Working%20for%20Families%20scheme.

    The headline is about how the situation could deteriorate to some
    effectively paying a top tax rate of 128.6% - but that would be in
    2027. That is not far away, but then this government is not exactly
    quick to work on some problems,

    In this case it could be argued that it was because this Government acted
    too quickly that the present situation exists.

    Also clear the 128% tax rate is "impossible" and there is time to make corrections/adjustments by 1 April 2027.

    Meanwhile it must be time to get all hot and bothered about the changes to
    the firearms law.



    because this is not a problem for the
    wealthy, but for those less well off. As the article says:

    "Baucher said many people would be surprised at the effective rates of
    tax that were being applied to people losing support from systems such
    as Working for Families.

    And while the government has lifted the in-work tax credit portion of
    the Working for Families package to $25 a week, the abatement
    threshold and abatement rate mean that on average most people will
    receive just under $17.

    "They're losing a third of it to abatement already, but the government
    will talk about 'yeah, you're getting $25 a week'."

    He said people who were earning less than $48,000 and getting Working
    for Families had an effective tax rate that was higher than the prime minister or finance minister.

    "It's a key point because you hear plenty of people saying 'people
    need to get off their arses and work' and it just doesn't work like
    that. It's not as simple as that. If you've got abatements you go
    backwards if you take on extra work, let alone if you're incurring
    extra costs such as travel and childcare." "

    Wouldn't it be good if the government would decide that the top
    effective tax rate for all taxpayers would be as low as 39% . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jun 19 04:57:16 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 18 Jun 2024 22:26:42 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-06-18, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/519816/how-some-lower-income-households-could-end-up-with-a-128-percent-tax-rate#:~:text=Some%20lower%2Dincome%20families%20could,the%20Working%20for%20Families%20scheme.

    The headline is about how the situation could deteriorate to some
    effectively paying a top tax rate of 128.6% - but that would be in
    2027. That is not far away, but then this government is not exactly
    quick to work on some problems,

    In this case it could be argued that it was because this Government acted >>too quickly that the present situation exists.

    Also clear the 128% tax rate is "impossible" and there is time to make >>corrections/adjustments by 1 April 2027.

    The effective tax rate that a person pays is represented by how much
    of a dollar increase in income is paid in tax. Currently there are
    people who if they work an extra hour for example, their pay may well
    go down because their lower eligibility for "Working for Families"
    rebate more than offsets the increase in income - the combined
    increase in income tax payable plus reduction in for a government
    payment combines to actually reduce net income.

    That does happen currently, but not to the extent that the author is
    telling would happen in 2027 unless the government makes changes.


    Meanwhile it must be time to get all hot and bothered about the changes to >>the firearms law.



    because this is not a problem for the
    wealthy, but for those less well off. As the article says:

    "Baucher said many people would be surprised at the effective rates of
    tax that were being applied to people losing support from systems such
    as Working for Families.

    And while the government has lifted the in-work tax credit portion of
    the Working for Families package to $25 a week, the abatement
    threshold and abatement rate mean that on average most people will
    receive just under $17.
    So for an increase in income of $25, effectively $8 disappears back to
    the government - that is the same as if the marginal tax rate for that >individual is 32%. That represents the average effect for all those
    receiving the working for Families package - for some it would be a
    higher rate, for others lower.

    "They're losing a third of it to abatement already, but the government
    will talk about 'yeah, you're getting $25 a week'."

    He said people who were earning less than $48,000 and getting Working
    for Families had an effective tax rate that was higher than the prime
    minister or finance minister.

    Do you understand that now? And that has nothing to do with the tax >advantages this government has given to landlords, or the tax-free
    allowances given to politicians.
    Neither of which are actually what you describe. More rhetoric from you.

    It would be possible for the government to ask for the tax rules
    relating to abatement of all benefits to ensure that nobody gets a
    reduction in net income through an increase in work related earnings -
    do you think it is fair that beneficiaries lose more of their net
    income from working more than the Prime Minister or Minister of
    Finance?


    "It's a key point because you hear plenty of people saying 'people
    need to get off their arses and work' and it just doesn't work like
    that. It's not as simple as that. If you've got abatements you go
    backwards if you take on extra work, let alone if you're incurring
    extra costs such as travel and childcare." "

    Wouldn't it be good if the government would decide that the top
    effective tax rate for all taxpayers would be as low as 39% . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Gordon on Wed Jun 19 16:16:15 2024
    On 18 Jun 2024 22:26:42 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-06-18, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/519816/how-some-lower-income-households-could-end-up-with-a-128-percent-tax-rate#:~:text=Some%20lower%2Dincome%20families%20could,the%20Working%20for%20Families%20scheme.

    The headline is about how the situation could deteriorate to some
    effectively paying a top tax rate of 128.6% - but that would be in
    2027. That is not far away, but then this government is not exactly
    quick to work on some problems,

    In this case it could be argued that it was because this Government acted
    too quickly that the present situation exists.

    Also clear the 128% tax rate is "impossible" and there is time to make >corrections/adjustments by 1 April 2027.

    The effective tax rate that a person pays is represented by how much
    of a dollar increase in income is paid in tax. Currently there are
    people who if they work an extra hour for example, their pay may well
    go down because their lower eligibility for "Working for Families"
    rebate more than offsets the increase in income - the combined
    increase in income tax payable plus reduction in for a government
    payment combines to actually reduce net income.

    That does happen currently, but not to the extent that the author is
    telling would happen in 2027 unless the government makes changes.


    Meanwhile it must be time to get all hot and bothered about the changes to >the firearms law.



    because this is not a problem for the
    wealthy, but for those less well off. As the article says:

    "Baucher said many people would be surprised at the effective rates of
    tax that were being applied to people losing support from systems such
    as Working for Families.

    And while the government has lifted the in-work tax credit portion of
    the Working for Families package to $25 a week, the abatement
    threshold and abatement rate mean that on average most people will
    receive just under $17.
    So for an increase in income of $25, effectively $8 disappears back to
    the government - that is the same as if the marginal tax rate for that individual is 32%. That represents the average effect for all those
    receiving the working for Families package - for some it would be a
    higher rate, for others lower.

    "They're losing a third of it to abatement already, but the government
    will talk about 'yeah, you're getting $25 a week'."

    He said people who were earning less than $48,000 and getting Working
    for Families had an effective tax rate that was higher than the prime
    minister or finance minister.

    Do you understand that now? And that has nothing to do with the tax
    advantages this government has given to landlords, or the tax-free
    allowances given to politicians.

    It would be possible for the government to ask for the tax rules
    relating to abatement of all benefits to ensure that nobody gets a
    reduction in net income through an increase in work related earnings -
    do you think it is fair that beneficiaries lose more of their net
    income from working more than the Prime Minister or Minister of
    Finance?


    "It's a key point because you hear plenty of people saying 'people
    need to get off their arses and work' and it just doesn't work like
    that. It's not as simple as that. If you've got abatements you go
    backwards if you take on extra work, let alone if you're incurring
    extra costs such as travel and childcare." "

    Wouldn't it be good if the government would decide that the top
    effective tax rate for all taxpayers would be as low as 39% . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jun 19 17:45:12 2024
    On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 04:57:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 18 Jun 2024 22:26:42 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-06-18, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/519816/how-some-lower-income-households-could-end-up-with-a-128-percent-tax-rate#:~:text=Some%20lower%2Dincome%20families%20could,the%20Working%20for%20Families%20scheme.

    The headline is about how the situation could deteriorate to some
    effectively paying a top tax rate of 128.6% - but that would be in
    2027. That is not far away, but then this government is not exactly
    quick to work on some problems,

    In this case it could be argued that it was because this Government acted >>>too quickly that the present situation exists.

    Also clear the 128% tax rate is "impossible" and there is time to make >>>corrections/adjustments by 1 April 2027.

    The effective tax rate that a person pays is represented by how much
    of a dollar increase in income is paid in tax. Currently there are
    people who if they work an extra hour for example, their pay may well
    go down because their lower eligibility for "Working for Families"
    rebate more than offsets the increase in income - the combined
    increase in income tax payable plus reduction in for a government
    payment combines to actually reduce net income.

    That does happen currently, but not to the extent that the author is >>telling would happen in 2027 unless the government makes changes.


    Meanwhile it must be time to get all hot and bothered about the changes to >>>the firearms law.



    because this is not a problem for the
    wealthy, but for those less well off. As the article says:

    "Baucher said many people would be surprised at the effective rates of >>>> tax that were being applied to people losing support from systems such >>>> as Working for Families.

    And while the government has lifted the in-work tax credit portion of
    the Working for Families package to $25 a week, the abatement
    threshold and abatement rate mean that on average most people will
    receive just under $17.
    So for an increase in income of $25, effectively $8 disappears back to
    the government - that is the same as if the marginal tax rate for that >>individual is 32%. That represents the average effect for all those >>receiving the working for Families package - for some it would be a
    higher rate, for others lower.

    "They're losing a third of it to abatement already, but the government >>>> will talk about 'yeah, you're getting $25 a week'."

    He said people who were earning less than $48,000 and getting Working
    for Families had an effective tax rate that was higher than the prime
    minister or finance minister.

    Do you understand that now? And that has nothing to do with the tax >>advantages this government has given to landlords, or the tax-free >>allowances given to politicians.
    Neither of which are actually what you describe. More rhetoric from you. Exactly Tony - they are examples of a reduction in tax on income in
    one case, and an increase in income with no change to tax payable in
    the other. Good you are keeping up.


    It would be possible for the government to ask for the tax rules
    relating to abatement of all benefits to ensure that nobody gets a >>reduction in net income through an increase in work related earnings -
    do you think it is fair that beneficiaries lose more of their net
    income from working more than the Prime Minister or Minister of
    Finance?


    "It's a key point because you hear plenty of people saying 'people
    need to get off their arses and work' and it just doesn't work like
    that. It's not as simple as that. If you've got abatements you go
    backwards if you take on extra work, let alone if you're incurring
    extra costs such as travel and childcare." "

    Wouldn't it be good if the government would decide that the top
    effective tax rate for all taxpayers would be as low as 39% . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jun 19 06:24:26 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 04:57:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 18 Jun 2024 22:26:42 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-06-18, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/519816/how-some-lower-income-households-could-end-up-with-a-128-percent-tax-rate#:~:text=Some%20lower%2Dincome%20families%20could,the%20Working%20for%20Families%20scheme.

    The headline is about how the situation could deteriorate to some
    effectively paying a top tax rate of 128.6% - but that would be in
    2027. That is not far away, but then this government is not exactly
    quick to work on some problems,

    In this case it could be argued that it was because this Government acted >>>>too quickly that the present situation exists.

    Also clear the 128% tax rate is "impossible" and there is time to make >>>>corrections/adjustments by 1 April 2027.

    The effective tax rate that a person pays is represented by how much
    of a dollar increase in income is paid in tax. Currently there are
    people who if they work an extra hour for example, their pay may well
    go down because their lower eligibility for "Working for Families"
    rebate more than offsets the increase in income - the combined
    increase in income tax payable plus reduction in for a government >>>payment combines to actually reduce net income.

    That does happen currently, but not to the extent that the author is >>>telling would happen in 2027 unless the government makes changes.


    Meanwhile it must be time to get all hot and bothered about the changes to >>>>the firearms law.



    because this is not a problem for the
    wealthy, but for those less well off. As the article says:

    "Baucher said many people would be surprised at the effective rates of >>>>> tax that were being applied to people losing support from systems such >>>>> as Working for Families.

    And while the government has lifted the in-work tax credit portion of >>>>> the Working for Families package to $25 a week, the abatement
    threshold and abatement rate mean that on average most people will
    receive just under $17.
    So for an increase in income of $25, effectively $8 disappears back to >>>the government - that is the same as if the marginal tax rate for that >>>individual is 32%. That represents the average effect for all those >>>receiving the working for Families package - for some it would be a >>>higher rate, for others lower.

    "They're losing a third of it to abatement already, but the government >>>>> will talk about 'yeah, you're getting $25 a week'."

    He said people who were earning less than $48,000 and getting Working >>>>> for Families had an effective tax rate that was higher than the prime >>>>> minister or finance minister.

    Do you understand that now? And that has nothing to do with the tax >>>advantages this government has given to landlords, or the tax-free >>>allowances given to politicians.
    Neither of which are actually what you describe. More rhetoric from you. >Exactly Tony - they are examples of a reduction in tax on income in
    one case, and an increase in income with no change to tax payable in
    the other. Good you are keeping up.
    I am glad that you agree that your description was incorrect. There may be a chance for you yet. Let's hope.


    It would be possible for the government to ask for the tax rules
    relating to abatement of all benefits to ensure that nobody gets a >>>reduction in net income through an increase in work related earnings -
    do you think it is fair that beneficiaries lose more of their net
    income from working more than the Prime Minister or Minister of
    Finance?


    "It's a key point because you hear plenty of people saying 'people
    need to get off their arses and work' and it just doesn't work like
    that. It's not as simple as that. If you've got abatements you go
    backwards if you take on extra work, let alone if you're incurring
    extra costs such as travel and childcare." "

    Wouldn't it be good if the government would decide that the top
    effective tax rate for all taxpayers would be as low as 39% . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)