https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year
or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant
number of deaths from vaccines.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >>become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year
or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant
number of deaths from vaccines.

No that is not clear, but it is the official line.
I would like to see the detail of all records published, then and only then can any of us be sure.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

Also reported in/at https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year
or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant
number of deaths from vaccines.

You're off-target as usual, Rich. NZ covid "vaccination" was ramped
up to the general public only in late August 2021, a year-and-a-half
into Covid. NZ excess mortality started in earnest on 6 March 2022
when it leapt to 15% excess mortality and stayed there for 5 months --
just after the vaccine booster campaign of Jan-Feb 2022.

Nothing you say is ever "clear" except that it is clear that lefty
mumbo-jumbo is all you've got.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Mutley <[email protected]> wrote:

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >>become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

I am an optimist, I hope that it will happen here but obviously not soon. There is an international groundswell now and it is accelerating.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024 21:13:53 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

Also reported in/at https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year
or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant
number of deaths from vaccines.

You're off-target as usual, Rich. NZ covid "vaccination" was ramped
up to the general public only in late August 2021, a year-and-a-half
into Covid. NZ excess mortality started in earnest on 6 March 2022
when it leapt to 15% excess mortality and stayed there for 5 months --
just after the vaccine booster campaign of Jan-Feb 2022.

The actions taken to quickly close our borders and endeavor to isolate
those exposed to Covid worked very well in the short term. It gave New
Zealand time to wait for vaccines to be developed and for our health
people to assess their safety before we started a widespread
vaccination programme. When restrictions were eased rates of infection
did rise significantly, particularly with those that had not been
vaccinated

Nothing you say is ever "clear" except that it is clear that lefty >mumbo-jumbo is all you've got.

I don't see anything "left" or "right" about Covid statistics - they
tell their own story - I gave some links in my reply to Tony in this
thread.

Clearly vaccines did not kill millions of people in New Zealand, but
sadly yes were reported as having been a factor in a very small number
of deaths.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:10:57 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >>>become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>>tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year
or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant
number of deaths from vaccines.

No that is not clear, but it is the official line.
I would like to see the detail of all records published, then and only then can
any of us be sure.

Happy to help, Tony. I have posted this information previously, but I
realise it is easy for some to forget. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-economist?uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~GBR~NZL

The chart for New Zealand goes below the line indicating that actual
deaths in that period were lower than expected deaths based on
mortality in recent years pre-Covid. Australia initially had a similar reduction in death rates, but you will recall that both NSW and
Victoria had some bad experiences due to precautions not being
followed. We did move back to higher than pre-covid death rates once precautions were largely dropped, but we are still well ahead of most
countries in having a lower overall loss of life due to Covid.

Click on "Settings" near the top to add other countries or put the
results in a single chart.

An alternative view is given here: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-per-million-covid Click on a country to see the results of their experience

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Mutley <[email protected]> wrote:

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >>>become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>>tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

I am an optimist, I hope that it will happen here but obviously not soon. There
is an international groundswell now and it is accelerating.

Have you tried Ivermectin, Tony?
If you are tempted you may want to look here first: https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/Alerts/ivermectin-covid19.htm

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 00:27:18 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024 21:13:53 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

... NZ excess mortality started in earnest on 6 March 2022
when it leapt to 15% excess mortality and stayed there for 5 months -- >>>just after the vaccine booster campaign of Jan-Feb 2022.

... When restrictions were eased rates of infection did rise
significantly, particularly with those that had not been vaccinated

Your last 8 words are a lie -- you've just made that up. The
vaccinated had higher rates of Covid all throughout. I gave running
totals and percentages on this forum as it was happening -- the
boostered consistently comprised 66% of new covid cases even though
their share of the population was just 52%. The unvaxxed new covid
case pcts were below their share of the population.

Clearly vaccines did not kill millions of people in New Zealand, but
sadly yes were reported as having been a factor in a very small number
of deaths.

Completely evading the topic of NZ's 15% excess deaths immediately
after the booster campaign because of course that's what you do.

Do you have a link for that, Willy?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Mutley <[email protected]> wrote:

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >>>>become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>>>tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

I am an optimist, I hope that it will happen here but obviously not soon. >>There
is an international groundswell now and it is accelerating.

Have you tried Ivermectin, Tony?

Why should I?

If you are tempted you may want to look here first: >https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/Alerts/ivermectin-covid19.htm

Irrelevant childish post from Rich. He can never, that is, never address this subject because he will lose.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:10:57 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >>>>become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>>>tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year
or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant
number of deaths from vaccines.

No that is not clear, but it is the official line.
I would like to see the detail of all records published, then and only then >>can
any of us be sure.

Happy to help, Tony. I have posted this information previously, but I
realise it is easy for some to forget. >https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-economist?uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~GBR~NZL

The chart for New Zealand goes below the line indicating that actual
deaths in that period were lower than expected deaths based on
mortality in recent years pre-Covid. Australia initially had a similar >reduction in death rates, but you will recall that both NSW and
Victoria had some bad experiences due to precautions not being
followed. We did move back to higher than pre-covid death rates once >precautions were largely dropped, but we are still well ahead of most >countries in having a lower overall loss of life due to Covid.

Click on "Settings" near the top to add other countries or put the
results in a single chart.

An alternative view is given here: >https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-per-million-covid >Click on a country to see the results of their experience

All of which is a small analysis that leaves all the detail out.
Can't you read English?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 09:14:15 +1200, Mutley <[email protected]>
wrote:

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >>become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

What is stopping you trying it, Mutley?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024 21:13:53 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

... NZ excess mortality started in earnest on 6 March 2022
when it leapt to 15% excess mortality and stayed there for 5 months --
just after the vaccine booster campaign of Jan-Feb 2022.

... When restrictions were eased rates of infection did rise
significantly, particularly with those that had not been vaccinated

Your last 8 words are a lie -- you've just made that up. The
vaccinated had higher rates of Covid all throughout. I gave running
totals and percentages on this forum as it was happening -- the
boostered consistently comprised 66% of new covid cases even though
their share of the population was just 52%. The unvaxxed new covid
case pcts were below their share of the population.

Clearly vaccines did not kill millions of people in New Zealand, but
sadly yes were reported as having been a factor in a very small number
of deaths.

Completely evading the topic of NZ's 15% excess deaths immediately
after the booster campaign because of course that's what you do.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 00:27:18 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024 21:13:53 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

... NZ excess mortality started in earnest on 6 March 2022
when it leapt to 15% excess mortality and stayed there for 5 months -- >>>>just after the vaccine booster campaign of Jan-Feb 2022.

Clearly vaccines did not kill millions of people in New Zealand, but >>>sadly yes were reported as having been a factor in a very small number
of deaths.

Completely evading the topic of NZ's 15% excess deaths immediately
after the booster campaign because of course that's what you do.

Do you have a link for that, Willy?

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
page down to the graph at "Excess mortality P-scores" and select New
Zealand.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 01:21:25 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 00:27:18 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024 21:13:53 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

... NZ excess mortality started in earnest on 6 March 2022
when it leapt to 15% excess mortality and stayed there for 5 months -- >>>>>just after the vaccine booster campaign of Jan-Feb 2022.

Clearly vaccines did not kill millions of people in New Zealand, but >>>>sadly yes were reported as having been a factor in a very small number >>>>of deaths.

Completely evading the topic of NZ's 15% excess deaths immediately
after the booster campaign because of course that's what you do.

Do you have a link for that, Willy?

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
page down to the graph at "Excess mortality P-scores" and select New
Zealand.

I showed the graph of "Percentage difference between the reported
weekly or monthly deaths in 2020�2024 and the average deaths in the
same period in 2015�2019." https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-average-baseline?country=~NZL
That shows weekly p-scores that range from -13% to +33%, with the
latest score -1% Those are deaths from all causes.

Or were you looking at this one: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?country=~NZL

All causes does of course include influences other than just Covid -
during lock-down we experienced lower road deaths and lower influenza
deaths as well, but the fact remains that the NZ graphs were better
than most countries during that critical period.

Our current experience is probably much closer to the rest of the
world - while we are still providing free vaccinations for some, there
are no longer other restrictions, masking is nearly back to normal (ie relatively rare). I suspect that our older residents (say over 70)
are however very likely to have continued to receive boosters, and
some retirement villages still have some precautions relating to
visitors.

Where did your figure of 15% come from, Willy?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 01:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Mutley <[email protected]> wrote:

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has
become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>>>>tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

I am an optimist, I hope that it will happen here but obviously not soon. >>>There
is an international groundswell now and it is accelerating.

Have you tried Ivermectin, Tony?

Why should I?

If you are tempted you may want to look here first: >>https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/Alerts/ivermectin-covid19.htm

Irrelevant childish post from Rich. He can never, that is, never address this >subject because he will lose.

I was responding to your comment "Note that Invermectin has honourable mention." Clearly your views are not shared by either the previous
or current New Zealand Governments or their health advisers. You may
wish to be more careful about the credibility of websites you come
across, or the credibility of anyone that referred that site to you,
Tony. Dr Shane Reti would be disappointed in your inadvertently
spreading disinformation.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 01:10:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:10:57 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has
become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>>>>tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year >>>>or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant >>>>number of deaths from vaccines.

No that is not clear, but it is the official line.
I would like to see the detail of all records published, then and only then >>>can
any of us be sure.

Happy to help, Tony. I have posted this information previously, but I >>realise it is easy for some to forget. >>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-economist?uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~GBR~NZL

The chart for New Zealand goes below the line indicating that actual
deaths in that period were lower than expected deaths based on
mortality in recent years pre-Covid. Australia initially had a similar >>reduction in death rates, but you will recall that both NSW and
Victoria had some bad experiences due to precautions not being
followed. We did move back to higher than pre-covid death rates once >>precautions were largely dropped, but we are still well ahead of most >>countries in having a lower overall loss of life due to Covid.

Click on "Settings" near the top to add other countries or put the
results in a single chart.

An alternative view is given here: >>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-per-million-covid >>Click on a country to see the results of their experience

All of which is a small analysis that leaves all the detail out.
Can't you read English?

It is actually a massive analysis covering a huge amount of data. If
you are wanting details of each case that will not help show that New
Zealand mortality dropped during the first year or two of Covid, and
simple arithmetic will tell you that as we had a relatively small
number of total deaths from Covid, the number from vaccinated persons
was also small - the vaccine is clearly not killing the equivalent of
millions in Japan. I understand the number now is more like 3 per week
as we go through another wave of Covid . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 01:21:25 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 00:27:18 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024 21:13:53 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>>>>> ... NZ excess mortality started in earnest on 6 March 2022

when it leapt to 15% excess mortality and stayed there for 5 months -- >>>>>>just after the vaccine booster campaign of Jan-Feb 2022.

Clearly vaccines did not kill millions of people in New Zealand, but >>>>>sadly yes were reported as having been a factor in a very small number >>>>>of deaths.

Completely evading the topic of NZ's 15% excess deaths immediately >>>>after the booster campaign because of course that's what you do.

Do you have a link for that, Willy?

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
page down to the graph at "Excess mortality P-scores" and select New >>Zealand.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-average-baseline?country=~NZL
Or were you looking at this one: >https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?country=~NZL

The latter one, although both are essentially the same. Both show the
5-month bulge in excess deaths from March to July 2022.

Where did your figure of 15% come from, Willy?

You are well-versed at fetching these graphs, Rich, but apparently
unable to read them. Looking at your latter graph, observe the
plotted points from 13 March 2022 to 31 July 2022, which were right
after NZ's big covid booster programme of Jan-Feb 2022. Those points
bulge upwards to reach the 15% excess-deaths horizontal line. Do you
see that, or can't you read graphs & charts?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 03:42:58 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 01:21:25 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 00:27:18 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>>>>On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024 21:13:53 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>>>>>> ... NZ excess mortality started in earnest on 6 March 2022

when it leapt to 15% excess mortality and stayed there for 5 months -- >>>>>>>just after the vaccine booster campaign of Jan-Feb 2022.

Clearly vaccines did not kill millions of people in New Zealand, but >>>>>>sadly yes were reported as having been a factor in a very small number >>>>>>of deaths.

Completely evading the topic of NZ's 15% excess deaths immediately >>>>>after the booster campaign because of course that's what you do.

Do you have a link for that, Willy?

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
page down to the graph at "Excess mortality P-scores" and select New >>>Zealand.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-average-baseline?country=~NZL

Or were you looking at this one: >>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?country=~NZL

The latter one, although both are essentially the same. Both show the >5-month bulge in excess deaths from March to July 2022.

Where did your figure of 15% come from, Willy?

You are well-versed at fetching these graphs, Rich, but apparently
unable to read them. Looking at your latter graph, observe the
plotted points from 13 March 2022 to 31 July 2022, which were right
after NZ's big covid booster programme of Jan-Feb 2022. Those points
bulge upwards to reach the 15% excess-deaths horizontal line. Do you
see that, or can't you read graphs & charts?

I would have to look through other records to see what was happening
at that time but I suspect it was removal of travel restrictions,
going down the protection levels. the booster campaign has operated
from around that time and during that time we have seen major
fluctuations in the rates - usually as new variants emerged that were
not as well covered by the previous versions of vaccine Many New
Zealanders are ow on their 7th or 8th Covid vaccination - if those
injections were causing deaths we would not have seen the reductions
in deaths in September / October for 2021 and 2022 - the reduction was
later in 2023. Vaccines are relatively evenly spread now - and in any
case correlation does not always indicate causation. The rise towards
summer each year may well be from the increase in tourism around that
time. The deaths measured are also from all causes - the low rates in
2020 will have merely deferred many deaths from the elderly - and we
have seen increases in death rates from various causes including road accidents. The peaks are fairly well spread over the range from 5% to
over 20% - the level of 15% appears to be well above any average rate
except for very short periods. The other issue is that the
underlying mortality being measured has changed from earlier
comparisons - click on the link near the bottom and it appears to now
use a single world-wide 2024 mortality dataset that will itself
include allowance for Covid mortality, rather than expected New
Zealand mortality pre-Covid.

To see when we were most at risk, see: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/new-zealand. That does
not show any significant correlation with vaccination campaigns with vaccinations now being fairly well spread over the year.

There is one country that has attempted to measure deaths by
vaccination status - see https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status
Certainly that does not show that vaccination is a significant driver
of deaths - quite the reverse; those vaccinated appear to have
consistently lower death rates.

We are certainly experiencing increased Covid cases and deaths at
present - I have heard of a number of voluntary organisations that
have had to cancel meetings, and we appear to be having around 6 or 7
deaths a week that are Covid-attributed, around 250 to 300 in
hospital, and around 950 cases at any one time, with a total of 4034
deaths over the 4 and a half years since the first Covid death. That
remains a fairly low overall rate of deaths as a percentage of
population.

But even allowing for that, it is interesting to see how our rates of
death per million people compares with other countries - see: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?facet=none&country=USA~BRA~JPN~DEU~NZL~AUS~GBR&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false

From the countries I have included, it is interesting to see that we
continue to have lower death rates than those we often compare
ourselves with. The thread started with an article about Covid
results in Japan - they certainly do not appear to have had any spikes
relating to vaccination; and their overall deaths per million have not
had the increases we have seen over the last year - where do those
"millions of deaths due to vaccine" appear in that graph?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 03:42:58 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote: >>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?country=~NZL

plotted points from 13 March 2022 to 31 July 2022, which were right
after NZ's big covid booster programme of Jan-Feb 2022. Those points
bulge upwards to reach the 15% excess-deaths horizontal line.

I would have to look through other records to see what was happening
at that time but I suspect it was removal of travel restrictions,

You are talking about Covid deaths but there were not a bulge of them
at that time. Just of "other" deaths. "Travel restrictions" ?!?! --
welcome to the league of crackpots, Rich. Oh wait, you were already
there.

[etc. -- etc. -- etc. -- etc. ... ]

Methinks thou protesteth too much.

I suspect those excess deaths were of the triple-vaxxed. That would
have been illuminating, would it not, Rich? Too bad they made sure
that we would never get to see such figures, right?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 01:10:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:10:57 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, >>>>>>has
become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for >>>>>>the
tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year >>>>>or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant >>>>>number of deaths from vaccines.

No that is not clear, but it is the official line.
I would like to see the detail of all records published, then and only then >>>>can
any of us be sure.

Happy to help, Tony. I have posted this information previously, but I >>>realise it is easy for some to forget. >>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-economist?uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~GBR~NZL

The chart for New Zealand goes below the line indicating that actual >>>deaths in that period were lower than expected deaths based on
mortality in recent years pre-Covid. Australia initially had a similar >>>reduction in death rates, but you will recall that both NSW and
Victoria had some bad experiences due to precautions not being
followed. We did move back to higher than pre-covid death rates once >>>precautions were largely dropped, but we are still well ahead of most >>>countries in having a lower overall loss of life due to Covid.

Click on "Settings" near the top to add other countries or put the >>>results in a single chart.

An alternative view is given here: >>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-per-million-covid
Click on a country to see the results of their experience

All of which is a small analysis that leaves all the detail out.
Can't you read English?

It is actually a massive analysis covering a huge amount of data.

It is at best an overview and you know it.

If
you are wanting details of each case that will not help show that New
Zealand mortality dropped during the first year or two of Covid, and
simple arithmetic will tell you that as we had a relatively small
number of total deaths from Covid, the number from vaccinated persons
was also small - the vaccine is clearly not killing the equivalent of >millions in Japan. I understand the number now is more like 3 per week
as we go through another wave of Covid . . .

You should address the OP, I did not say that. You reallt are having a bad day eh? Maybe you should join AA or see your doctor.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 01:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Mutley <[email protected]> wrote:

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, >>>>>>has
become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for >>>>>>the
tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

I am an optimist, I hope that it will happen here but obviously not soon. >>>>There
is an international groundswell now and it is accelerating.

Have you tried Ivermectin, Tony?

Why should I?

If you are tempted you may want to look here first: >>>https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/Alerts/ivermectin-covid19.htm >>Irrelevant childish post from Rich. He can never, that is, never address this >>subject because he will lose.

I was responding to your comment "Note that Invermectin has honourable >mention."

Then clearly you need to visit a geriatrician, I did not make that comment.

Clearly your views are not shared by either the previous
or current New Zealand Governments or their health advisers. You may
wish to be more careful about the credibility of websites you come
across, or the credibility of anyone that referred that site to you,
Tony. Dr Shane Reti would be disappointed in your inadvertently
spreading disinformation.

I am doing no such thing, I did not provide any information,. You are a cretin. Do get help.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 07:12:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 01:10:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:10:57 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, >>>>>>>has
become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for >>>>>>>the
tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year >>>>>>or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant >>>>>>number of deaths from vaccines.

No that is not clear, but it is the official line.
I would like to see the detail of all records published, then and only then
can
any of us be sure.

Happy to help, Tony. I have posted this information previously, but I >>>>realise it is easy for some to forget. >>>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-economist?uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~GBR~NZL

The chart for New Zealand goes below the line indicating that actual >>>>deaths in that period were lower than expected deaths based on >>>>mortality in recent years pre-Covid. Australia initially had a similar >>>>reduction in death rates, but you will recall that both NSW and >>>>Victoria had some bad experiences due to precautions not being >>>>followed. We did move back to higher than pre-covid death rates once >>>>precautions were largely dropped, but we are still well ahead of most >>>>countries in having a lower overall loss of life due to Covid.

Click on "Settings" near the top to add other countries or put the >>>>results in a single chart.

An alternative view is given here: >>>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-per-million-covid
Click on a country to see the results of their experience

All of which is a small analysis that leaves all the detail out.
Can't you read English?

It is actually a massive analysis covering a huge amount of data.

It is at best an overview and you know it.

If
you are wanting details of each case that will not help show that New >>Zealand mortality dropped during the first year or two of Covid, and
simple arithmetic will tell you that as we had a relatively small
number of total deaths from Covid, the number from vaccinated persons
was also small - the vaccine is clearly not killing the equivalent of >>millions in Japan. I understand the number now is more like 3 per week
as we go through another wave of Covid . . .

You should address the OP, I did not say that. You reallt are having a bad day >eh? Maybe you should join AA or see your doctor.

I was not talking to you, Tony. You can get off your pretend horse now
and go back to sleep.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 07:10:32 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 01:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Mutley <[email protected]> wrote:

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, >>>>>>>has
become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for >>>>>>>the
tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

I am an optimist, I hope that it will happen here but obviously not soon. >>>>>There
is an international groundswell now and it is accelerating.

Have you tried Ivermectin, Tony?

Why should I?

If you are tempted you may want to look here first: >>>>https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/Alerts/ivermectin-covid19.htm >>>Irrelevant childish post from Rich. He can never, that is, never address this

subject because he will lose.

I was responding to your comment "Note that Invermectin has honourable >>mention."

Then clearly you need to visit a geriatrician, I did not make that comment.

Clearly your views are not shared by either the previous
or current New Zealand Governments or their health advisers. You may
wish to be more careful about the credibility of websites you come
across, or the credibility of anyone that referred that site to you,
Tony. Dr Shane Reti would be disappointed in your inadvertently
spreading disinformation.

I am doing no such thing, I did not provide any information,. You are a cretin.
Do get help.

OK, so we know you never provide any information Tony; that is why I
pointed out that you were spreading disinformation. And yes I was just
being nice describing that as inadvertent . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 07:10:32 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 01:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

Mutley <[email protected]> wrote:

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, >>>>>>>>has
become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for >>>>>>>>the
tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>>>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

I am an optimist, I hope that it will happen here but obviously not soon. >>>>>>There
is an international groundswell now and it is accelerating.

Have you tried Ivermectin, Tony?

Why should I?

If you are tempted you may want to look here first: >>>>>https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/Alerts/ivermectin-covid19.htm >>>>Irrelevant childish post from Rich. He can never, that is, never address >>>>this

subject because he will lose.

I was responding to your comment "Note that Invermectin has honourable >>>mention."

Then clearly you need to visit a geriatrician, I did not make that comment. >>> Clearly your views are not shared by either the previous

or current New Zealand Governments or their health advisers. You may >>>wish to be more careful about the credibility of websites you come >>>across, or the credibility of anyone that referred that site to you, >>>Tony. Dr Shane Reti would be disappointed in your inadvertently
spreading disinformation.

I am doing no such thing, I did not provide any information,. You are a >>cretin.
Do get help.

OK, so we know you never provide any information Tony; that is why I
pointed out that you were spreading disinformation. And yes I was just
being nice describing that as inadvertent . . .

No you posted abuse.
You are wrong.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 07:12:29 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 01:10:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 21:10:57 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Jun 2024 08:01:58 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, >>>>>>>>has
become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for >>>>>>>>the
tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at >>>>>>>>https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Since mortality in New Zealand actually dropped during the first year >>>>>>>or two of Covid, it is clear that we did not have any significant >>>>>>>number of deaths from vaccines.

No that is not clear, but it is the official line.
I would like to see the detail of all records published, then and only >>>>>>then
can
any of us be sure.

Happy to help, Tony. I have posted this information previously, but I >>>>>realise it is easy for some to forget. >>>>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-economist?uniformYAxis=0&country=USA~AUS~GBR~NZL

The chart for New Zealand goes below the line indicating that actual >>>>>deaths in that period were lower than expected deaths based on >>>>>mortality in recent years pre-Covid. Australia initially had a similar >>>>>reduction in death rates, but you will recall that both NSW and >>>>>Victoria had some bad experiences due to precautions not being >>>>>followed. We did move back to higher than pre-covid death rates once >>>>>precautions were largely dropped, but we are still well ahead of most >>>>>countries in having a lower overall loss of life due to Covid.

Click on "Settings" near the top to add other countries or put the >>>>>results in a single chart.

An alternative view is given here: >>>>>https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-per-million-covid
Click on a country to see the results of their experience

All of which is a small analysis that leaves all the detail out.
Can't you read English?

It is actually a massive analysis covering a huge amount of data.

It is at best an overview and you know it.

If
you are wanting details of each case that will not help show that New >>>Zealand mortality dropped during the first year or two of Covid, and >>>simple arithmetic will tell you that as we had a relatively small
number of total deaths from Covid, the number from vaccinated persons
was also small - the vaccine is clearly not killing the equivalent of >>>millions in Japan. I understand the number now is more like 3 per week
as we go through another wave of Covid . . .

You should address the OP, I did not say that. You reallt are having a bad >>day
eh? Maybe you should join AA or see your doctor.

I was not talking to you, Tony. You can get off your pretend horse now
and go back to sleep.

Stop posting to individuals if you don't want a response, you are an idiot if you think that makes sense.
You posted to me. Period. Even a child understands that.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/06/24 12:09, Rich80105 wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 09:14:15 +1200, Mutley <[email protected]>
wrote:

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/japanese-leader-apologizes-to-the-unvaccinated-you-were-right-vaccines-are-killing-millions-of-our-loved-ones/

"Kazuhiro Haraguchi, the former Japanese Minister for Internal Affairs, has >>> become the first major politician to apologize to the unvaccinated for the >>> tsunami of deaths occuring among the vaccinated population."

So so will follow?

Also reported in/at https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/japans-former-minister-for-internal-affairs-apologizes-during-massive-protest-against-who/

Note that Invermectin has honourable mention.

Bet it won't happen in NZ.

What is stopping you trying it, Mutley?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34466270/

..... note; noble prize winning medication !!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)