• Not A Good Look For Our =?UTF-8?B?TmF0aW9u4oCZcw==?= Top Diplomat ...

    From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 1 22:56:12 2024
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Thu May 2 01:11:30 2024
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things ><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action, then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more information.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Tony on Thu May 2 01:13:32 2024
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    To be accused is meaningless ...

    On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be above suspicion.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Thu May 2 01:39:05 2024
    On 2024-05-02, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    To be accused is meaningless ...

    On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be above suspicion.

    Well we had better try and find him/her/or any other pro-noun.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Gordon on Thu May 2 04:04:54 2024
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-02, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    To be accused is meaningless ...

    On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be >> above suspicion.

    Well we had better try and find him/her/or any other pro-noun.
    Precisely Gordon - If what Lawrence believes to be true is in fact correct then we are all guilty and none of us can be trusted. That is what i so silly about his argument.
    There has been no evidencve provided therefore the accusation is currently just politicial nastiness.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Thu May 2 04:02:20 2024
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    To be accused is meaningless ...

    On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be >above suspicion.
    Your statement is plain illogical. Anybody can be accused of anything, that does not mean it is valid. Until there is evidence they are ipso facto above suspicion.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu May 2 20:54:48 2024
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:13:32 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    To be accused is meaningless ...

    On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be >above suspicion.
    Winston will be absolutely delighted with the Headline - it continues
    its bias towards the current government - Peters is of course a very
    senior politician as Deputy PM and Foreign Minister, but he has very
    seldom been described as a diplomat - he is known for aggression to
    anyone that does not agree with him. He is as Foreign Minister usually
    fairly good at giving the speeches written for him by Foreign Affairs, (although apparently his unacknowledged plagiarism of the Gettysburg
    Address was apparently his own work), and that has mean that he has
    not often previously made the mistakes he has made recently of
    threatening current relationships and expressed foreign policy. Too
    close an alignment with the USA through a defense agreement that is
    seen as "dealing with" potential conflict with China may not be a good
    way to risk 27% of our exports ; if we are to make such a major change
    from previous policies it would be usual for that to be expressed in
    gentler way by the Prime Minister, and the reasons for such a change
    signaled to New Zealanders. Out stance on the middle east has been
    that of a concerned country that is capable of independent thought,
    having humanitarian priorities, and willing to help consensus through
    concern about veto powers that aligned us with other small countries
    without alienating any of our trading partners.

    Under the circumstances a cheap shot art a senior ex-politician from
    Australia appears both unnecessary and unproductive. Then abusing that
    person is just stupid - he could have gained more by ignoring his
    comments; but this is after all Winston - he walks to his own drum,
    and we can expect the unexpected from him - the incident emphasises
    that he may well only have a short time left in government and there
    has been speculation that he will make his mark by breaking the
    coalition rather than quietly allow Seymour to become Deputy PM -
    being capricious with the role he has been given may mean that the
    Prime Minister has to actually lead rather than rely on the coalition agreements cobbled together without adequate consideration or
    consultation with even the MPs from each coalition party.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 2 22:58:45 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things ><https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet": https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister- christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on- defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Thu May 2 19:26:10 2024
    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things

    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court >>action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so >>far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet": >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister- >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on- >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
    At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not. That information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or another.
    I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu May 2 19:28:00 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:13:32 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    To be accused is meaningless ...

    On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be >>above suspicion.
    Winston will be absolutely delighted with the Headline - it continues
    its bias towards the current government - Peters is of course a very
    senior politician as Deputy PM and Foreign Minister, but he has very
    seldom been described as a diplomat - he is known for aggression to
    anyone that does not agree with him. He is as Foreign Minister usually
    fairly good at giving the speeches written for him by Foreign Affairs, >(although apparently his unacknowledged plagiarism of the Gettysburg
    Address was apparently his own work), and that has mean that he has
    not often previously made the mistakes he has made recently of
    threatening current relationships and expressed foreign policy. Too
    close an alignment with the USA through a defense agreement that is
    seen as "dealing with" potential conflict with China may not be a good
    way to risk 27% of our exports ; if we are to make such a major change
    from previous policies it would be usual for that to be expressed in
    gentler way by the Prime Minister, and the reasons for such a change
    signaled to New Zealanders. Out stance on the middle east has been
    that of a concerned country that is capable of independent thought,
    having humanitarian priorities, and willing to help consensus through
    concern about veto powers that aligned us with other small countries
    without alienating any of our trading partners.

    Under the circumstances a cheap shot art a senior ex-politician from >Australia appears both unnecessary and unproductive. Then abusing that
    person is just stupid - he could have gained more by ignoring his
    comments; but this is after all Winston - he walks to his own drum,
    and we can expect the unexpected from him - the incident emphasises
    that he may well only have a short time left in government and there
    has been speculation that he will make his mark by breaking the
    coalition rather than quietly allow Seymour to become Deputy PM -
    being capricious with the role he has been given may mean that the
    Prime Minister has to actually lead rather than rely on the coalition >agreements cobbled together without adequate consideration or
    consultation with even the MPs from each coalition party.
    Did he defame the man? Yes or no. OK I will answer for you - you don't know any more than I do.
    Talk about cheap shots - this whole thing is cheap and shabby left wing politics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri May 3 09:02:38 2024
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 04:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    To be accused is meaningless ...

    On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be >>above suspicion.
    Your statement is plain illogical. Anybody can be accused of anything, that >does not mean it is valid. Until there is evidence they are ipso facto above >suspicion.

    The evidence is that the news agencies that heard the utterance from
    Peters have decided for themselves that his words were sufficiently
    clearly either slanderous or insulting that they have were not
    prepared to take the risk of action against themselves. Certainly an
    empty allegation means little in itself - but now we know that Carr's
    lawyer has sent a letter to Winston Peters. We can expect that it will
    be significantly more serious than a Green MP crossing the floor of
    parliament to talk to another MP.

    It is also clear that Peters, and possibly also Luxon and Seymour,
    have decided among themselves to take New Zealand away from our
    previous independent but loosely aligned international stance -
    without discussion or possibly even consideration of the potential
    considerable risks to our country.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu May 2 21:53:14 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 04:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 01:11:30 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    To be accused is meaningless ...

    On the contrary, somebody in a position of statutory authority needs to be >>>above suspicion.
    Your statement is plain illogical. Anybody can be accused of anything, that >>does not mean it is valid. Until there is evidence they are ipso facto above >>suspicion.

    The evidence is that the news agencies that heard the utterance from
    Peters have decided for themselves that his words were sufficiently
    clearly either slanderous or insulting that they have were not
    prepared to take the risk of action against themselves. Certainly an
    empty allegation means little in itself - but now we know that Carr's
    lawyer has sent a letter to Winston Peters. We can expect that it will
    be significantly more serious than a Green MP crossing the floor of >parliament to talk to another MP.
    No, that is your hope because that is the sort of person you are.
    What news agencies believe is even more irrelevant than your opinion and that is saying a lot.
    Until defamation is proven, this is a political hit job and you are part of it, aren't you enjoying yourself eh? Childishness personified.

    It is also clear that Peters, and possibly also Luxon and Seymour,
    have decided among themselves to take New Zealand away from our
    previous independent but loosely aligned international stance -
    without discussion or possibly even consideration of the potential >considerable risks to our country.
    Nonsense - that makes no sense, not unusual however.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 3 14:09:00 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things

    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court >>action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so >>far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more >> information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet": >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister- >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on- >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
    At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not. That information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or another.
    I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.

    Even if a court decides its not defamation, its still not exactly a
    great look for our top diplomat to be saying such things in such a
    public way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Fri May 3 03:15:09 2024
    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things


    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
    action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, >> >>so
    far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more >> >> information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
    At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not. >>That
    information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or another. >> I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.

    Even if a court decides its not defamation, its still not exactly a
    great look for our top diplomat to be saying such things in such a
    public way.
    Winston Peters is one of a kind - we all have our opinions of him but he is what he is.
    However, hopefully you will note that I did not say that what he has said is appropriate, you will note that I have not defended him.
    That was not and is not the point of my post.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 3 17:31:03 2024
    In article <part1of1.1.huy$[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >says...

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things


    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court >> >>action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, >> >>so
    far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
    At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not. >>That
    information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or another.
    I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.

    Even if a court decides its not defamation, its still not exactly a
    great look for our top diplomat to be saying such things in such a
    public way.
    Winston Peters is one of a kind - we all have our opinions of him but he is what he is.
    However, hopefully you will note that I did not say that what he has said is appropriate, you will note that I have not defended him.
    That was not and is not the point of my post.

    Indeed I did note that. It will be interesting to see if it actually
    goes to court - seems like a bit of a waste of time and money. If Mr.
    Carr doesn't like what was said I can't imagine drawing a whole lot more attention to it improving the situation much.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Fri May 3 07:06:22 2024
    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <part1of1.1.huy$[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things



    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court >> >> >>action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters -
    well,
    so
    far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have >> >> >>more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html
    At the end of the day, it depends on whether defamation occurred or not. >> >>That
    information, while interesting, does not indicate guilt one way or
    another.
    I look forward to innocent until proven guilty processes here.

    Even if a court decides its not defamation, its still not exactly a
    great look for our top diplomat to be saying such things in such a
    public way.
    Winston Peters is one of a kind - we all have our opinions of him but he is >> what he is.
    However, hopefully you will note that I did not say that what he has said is >> appropriate, you will note that I have not defended him.
    That was not and is not the point of my post.

    Indeed I did note that. It will be interesting to see if it actually
    goes to court - seems like a bit of a waste of time and money. If Mr.
    Carr doesn't like what was said I can't imagine drawing a whole lot more >attention to it improving the situation much.
    Yes I agree with all of that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BR@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri May 3 19:59:21 2024
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet": >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister- >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on- >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Bill.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 5 16:01:12 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more >> information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet": >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister- >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on- >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on
    national radio.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Sun May 5 04:42:40 2024
    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things

    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
    action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, >> >>so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more >> >> information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on >national radio.
    That's Winston for you.
    Perhaps some would prefer the lies that the previous two PMs told us all. Or the underhand attempt to destroy our democracy that the last government played with.
    Give me honest, if undiplomatic, Winston over those halfwits any day.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun May 5 17:18:37 2024
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 04:42:40 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things

    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court >>> >>action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, >>> >>so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on >>national radio.
    Most people agree with you, David. Whether it is defamatory can be
    left to Mr Carr as to whether he takes the case to court, to Winston
    Peters as to whether he settles before trial by apologising, or if it
    goes to court it will be determined on the facts by the Court system.

    That's Winston for you.
    Perhaps some would prefer the lies that the previous two PMs told us all. Or >the underhand attempt to destroy our democracy that the last government played >with.
    Give me honest, if undiplomatic, Winston over those halfwits any day.
    You are yet again off topic, Tony.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun May 5 06:45:19 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 04:42:40 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    David Goodwin <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>> >says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things


    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court >>>> >>action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, >>>> >>so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have >>>> >>more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on >>>national radio.
    Most people agree with you, David. Whether it is defamatory can be
    left to Mr Carr as to whether he takes the case to court, to Winston
    Peters as to whether he settles before trial by apologising, or if it
    goes to court it will be determined on the facts by the Court system. Meanwhile no harm done. So why do you persist with this triviality?

    That's Winston for you.
    Perhaps some would prefer the lies that the previous two PMs told us all. Or >>the underhand attempt to destroy our democracy that the last government >>played
    with.
    Give me honest, if undiplomatic, Winston over those halfwits any day.
    You are yet again off topic, Tony.
    No, absolutely on topic. This is about Winston, not your delusions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BR@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon May 6 05:12:28 2024
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:01:12 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things
    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have more >> >> information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on >national radio.

    "Diplomacy is to do and say,
    The nastiest thing in the nicest way." - Isaac Goldberg.

    If he is a Chinese puppet, why shouldn't he be called out on it?

    Bill.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun May 5 19:07:02 2024
    BR <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:01:12 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things

    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court >>> >>action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, >>> >>so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have
    more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on >>national radio.

    "Diplomacy is to do and say,
    The nastiest thing in the nicest way." - Isaac Goldberg.

    If he is a Chinese puppet, why shouldn't he be called out on it?

    Indeed yes, why not?
    Some people will use any trivial excuse to push their politics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon May 6 01:10:09 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 19:07:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    BR <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:01:12 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>> >says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things


    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court >>>>> >>action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - >>>>> >>well,
    so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have >>>>> >>more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet": >>>>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on >>>>national radio.

    "Diplomacy is to do and say,
    The nastiest thing in the nicest way." - Isaac Goldberg.

    If he is a Chinese puppet, why shouldn't he be called out on it?

    Indeed yes, why not?
    Some people will use any trivial excuse to push their politics.

    Clearly you, and in this case Winston Peters, either have no
    understanding of Diplomacy, or alternatively put your personal
    political views ahead of common sense and New Zealand's interests.
    Don't be such a pathetic fool. I have far more understanding of diplomacy than you ever will have. This is not and never was a diplomatic issue, many outspoken senior government ministers around the world are outspoken, and only twits like you become snotty nosed when such people speak their minds. But only when they are not left wing of course, eh?
    As for New Zealand interests, you have nevr put that at a higher priority than your own personal outdated beliefs, have you?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon May 6 12:38:48 2024
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 19:07:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    BR <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:01:12 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>> >says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things

    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court >>>> >>action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest.
    You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - well, >>>> >>so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have >>>> >>more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet":
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on >>>national radio.

    "Diplomacy is to do and say,
    The nastiest thing in the nicest way." - Isaac Goldberg.

    If he is a Chinese puppet, why shouldn't he be called out on it?

    Indeed yes, why not?
    Some people will use any trivial excuse to push their politics.

    Clearly you, and in this case Winston Peters, either have no
    understanding of Diplomacy, or alternatively put your personal
    political views ahead of common sense and New Zealand's interests.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon May 6 13:18:58 2024
    On Mon, 6 May 2024 01:10:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 19:07:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    BR <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:01:12 +1200, David Goodwin >>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>>says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>>> >says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things


    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any court
    action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest. >>>>>> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - >>>>>> >>well,
    so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have >>>>>> >>more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet": >>>>>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister-
    christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on-
    defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on >>>>>national radio.

    "Diplomacy is to do and say,
    The nastiest thing in the nicest way." - Isaac Goldberg.

    If he is a Chinese puppet, why shouldn't he be called out on it?

    Indeed yes, why not?
    Some people will use any trivial excuse to push their politics.

    Clearly you, and in this case Winston Peters, either have no
    understanding of Diplomacy, or alternatively put your personal
    political views ahead of common sense and New Zealand's interests.
    Don't be such a pathetic fool. I have far more understanding of diplomacy than >you ever will have. This is not and never was a diplomatic issue, many >outspoken senior government ministers around the world are outspoken, and only >twits like you become snotty nosed when such people speak their minds. But only
    when they are not left wing of course, eh?
    As for New Zealand interests, you have nevr put that at a higher priority than >your own personal outdated beliefs, have you?
    So you thinks insults may make up for a lack of thinking about the
    issues . . well yet again you are wrong; all you are doing is blindly supporting a politician - try addressing the issue, Tony.

    To help you: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/515850/winston-peters-comments-about-former-australian-minister-unstatesmanlike-labour

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon May 6 04:16:50 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 6 May 2024 01:10:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 19:07:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    BR <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:01:12 +1200, David Goodwin >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>>>says...

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 22:58:45 +1200, David Goodwin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>>>>> >says...

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    ... to be accused of saying such undiplomatic things



    <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/aukus-ward-bob-carr-says-he-will-take-legal-action-against-winston-peters/MURTZLWCAFF2BNMUZ2ICKUNZ3M/>.
    To be accused is meaningless and is ionitself no problem.
    When we see what was actually said and what is the result of any >>>>>>> >>court
    action,
    then and only then does it become of more than passing interest. >>>>>>> >> You and Hipkins slavishly lap this up as if it actually matters - >>>>>>> >>well,
    so far
    it doesn't matter - an intelligent person would wait until they have >>>>>>> >>more
    information.

    Apparently he called Mr. Carr "nothing more than a Chinese puppet": >>>>>>> >https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/prime-minister- >>>>>>> >christopher-luxon-defends-winston-peters-as-he-doubles-down-on- >>>>>>> >defamatory-comments-confirms-no-legal-action-taken.html

    What if he is a Chinese pupplet?

    Whether he is or not, its still not a very diplomatic thing to say on >>>>>>national radio.

    "Diplomacy is to do and say,
    The nastiest thing in the nicest way." - Isaac Goldberg.

    If he is a Chinese puppet, why shouldn't he be called out on it?

    Indeed yes, why not?
    Some people will use any trivial excuse to push their politics.

    Clearly you, and in this case Winston Peters, either have no >>>understanding of Diplomacy, or alternatively put your personal
    political views ahead of common sense and New Zealand's interests.
    Don't be such a pathetic fool. I have far more understanding of diplomacy >>than
    you ever will have. This is not and never was a diplomatic issue, many >>outspoken senior government ministers around the world are outspoken, and >>only
    twits like you become snotty nosed when such people speak their minds. But >>only
    when they are not left wing of course, eh?
    As for New Zealand interests, you have nevr put that at a higher priority >>than
    your own personal outdated beliefs, have you?
    So you thinks insults may make up for a lack of thinking about the
    issues
    No you cretin, I don't support insults bu ministers. Winston either told the truth or he didn't. If it is the truth it is by definition not an insult - OK, can you comprehend that far from subtle assistance?
    . . well yet again you are wrong; all you are doing is blindly
    supporting a politician - try addressing the issue, Tony.
    No I am correct, you are a politically driven cretinm.

    To help you: >https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/515850/winston-peters-comments-about-former-australian-minister-unstatesmanlike-labour
    Pathetic repetitive slurs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Tony on Tue May 14 00:46:02 2024
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 04:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    Anybody can be accused of anything ...

    Depends on whether the accusation is credible or not. The facts of what he
    said in this case are not beyond dispute.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue May 14 14:15:27 2024
    On Tue, 14 May 2024 00:46:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 04:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    Anybody can be accused of anything ...

    Depends on whether the accusation is credible or not. The facts of what he >said in this case are not beyond dispute.

    And the unnecessary offence it caused does confirm that Peter's is not
    a diplomat, and that he does at times appear to be deliberately
    offensive. The thread was just a bit of hero-worship for belligerant
    nastiness from Tony.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu May 16 04:59:24 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 14 May 2024 00:46:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro ><[email protected]d> wrote:

    On Thu, 2 May 2024 04:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    Anybody can be accused of anything ...

    Depends on whether the accusation is credible or not. The facts of what he >>said in this case are not beyond dispute.

    And the unnecessary offence it caused does confirm that Peter's is not
    a diplomat, and that he does at times appear to be deliberately
    offensive. The thread was just a bit of hero-worship for belligerant >nastiness from Tony.
    You are the hero worshipper, you worship Marx.
    Paters is nowehere on my list of liked people, you know that and so you lie to try for a little gain - well you lost, a loser always.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Thu May 16 04:57:26 2024
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 04:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony wrote:

    Anybody can be accused of anything ...

    Depends on whether the accusation is credible or not. The facts of what he >said in this case are not beyond dispute.
    Wrong - what you resoonded to is absolute logic and beyond your ability to attack.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)