• Sea level rise

    From Gordon@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 5 23:19:01 2024
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is 2-3mm/year.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Gordon on Sat Apr 6 00:31:13 2024
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is >2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the contrary exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Apr 6 15:57:01 2024
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >>places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is >>2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the contrary >exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation
    to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the
    targets relating to climate change arising from the international
    Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who
    have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit
    Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall
    apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right
    wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly
    unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of
    division this early in their term.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Apr 6 03:12:15 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >>>places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is >>>2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the contrary >>exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation
    That is "clearly" a lie. Yet again you cannot tell the truth.
    to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the
    targets relating to climate change arising from the international
    Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.
    Nobody is attacking the government other than you.
    Areements can and should be reviewed often, this one is way past time for that.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who
    have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit
    Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall
    apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right
    wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly
    unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of
    division this early in their term.
    More lies - can you ever keep to the subject?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BR@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 6 20:16:36 2024
    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >>>places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is >>>2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the contrary >>exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation
    to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the
    targets relating to climate change arising from the international
    Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who
    have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit
    Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall
    apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right
    wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly
    unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of
    division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man
    made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Apr 7 20:46:12 2024
    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >>>>places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is >>>>2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs. >>
    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation
    to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the
    targets relating to climate change arising from the international
    Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who
    have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall
    apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right
    wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly
    unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man
    made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being
    mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man
    made climate change - do you, Bill?

    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International
    Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are
    substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets. It is a
    complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in
    Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking
    our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years. Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Apr 7 20:32:25 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >>>>>places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is >>>>>2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs. >>>
    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation
    to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international
    Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who
    have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right
    wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly
    unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man
    made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man
    made climate change - do you, Bill?

    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International
    Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are
    substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets. It is a >complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking
    our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years. Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?
    I am sure you will ignore this or you will be abusive of the writers but anybody else might enjoy a balanced view. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17538947.2024.2329816

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Apr 7 20:21:26 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >>>>>places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is >>>>>2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs. >>>
    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation
    to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international
    Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who
    have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right
    wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly
    unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man
    made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man
    made climate change - do you, Bill?

    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International
    Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are
    substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets. It is a >complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking
    our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years. Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?
    Political hogwash.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Apr 8 08:32:36 2024
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 20:32:25 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >>>>>>places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs. >>>>
    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation
    to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man
    made climate change - do you, Bill?

    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets. It is a >>complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking
    our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years. Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's >>situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?
    I am sure you will ignore this or you will be abusive of the writers but >anybody else might enjoy a balanced view. >https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17538947.2024.2329816

    That article does not contradict anything I have said - but it does
    not talk about New Zealand's commitments under the Climate Change
    Treaty that the then National -led Government signed us up to . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Apr 8 09:39:45 2024
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 21:20:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 20:32:25 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in
    places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which >>>>>>>>is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on..... >>>>>>>>
    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation >>>>>>to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to. >>>>>>
    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>>>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man >>>>made climate change - do you, Bill?

    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>>>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>>>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets. It is a >>>>complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>>>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking >>>>our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years. Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's >>>>situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?
    I am sure you will ignore this or you will be abusive of the writers but >>>anybody else might enjoy a balanced view. >>>https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17538947.2024.2329816

    That article does not contradict anything I have said
    It contracdicts many things you have said in the past but are subtly drawing >back from as the real science becomes much better accepted.
    - but it does
    not talk about New Zealand's commitments under the Climate Change
    Treaty that the then National -led Government signed us up to . . . >Irrelevant. The treaty is not binding and even if it was it can always be >re-nogotiated or cancelled. Simple stuff really.
    You have raised that stupid proposal before - what do you think the
    effect of such a withdrawal from a Treaty may be to New Zealand, Tony?
    Has any New Zealand government ever raised that as a possible way to
    avoid commitments? You are just pissing into the wind . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Apr 7 21:20:38 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 20:32:25 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in
    places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which >>>>>>>is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on..... >>>>>>>
    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation >>>>>to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man >>>made climate change - do you, Bill?

    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets. It is a >>>complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking >>>our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years. Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's >>>situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?
    I am sure you will ignore this or you will be abusive of the writers but >>anybody else might enjoy a balanced view. >>https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17538947.2024.2329816

    That article does not contradict anything I have said
    It contracdicts many things you have said in the past but are subtly drawing back from as the real science becomes much better accepted.
    - but it does
    not talk about New Zealand's commitments under the Climate Change
    Treaty that the then National -led Government signed us up to . . . Irrelevant. The treaty is not binding and even if it was it can always be re-nogotiated or cancelled. Simple stuff really.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Apr 7 22:27:37 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 21:20:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 20:32:25 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising >>>>>>>>>in
    places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, >>>>>>>>>which
    is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>>>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on..... >>>>>>>>>
    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political >>>>>>>>beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation >>>>>>>to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to. >>>>>>>
    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>>>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>>>>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man >>>>>made climate change - do you, Bill?

    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that >>>>>a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>>>>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions >>>>>in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>>>>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets. It is a >>>>>complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>>>>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking >>>>>our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the >>>>>next few years. Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's >>>>>situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?
    I am sure you will ignore this or you will be abusive of the writers but >>>>anybody else might enjoy a balanced view. >>>>https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17538947.2024.2329816

    That article does not contradict anything I have said
    It contracdicts many things you have said in the past but are subtly drawing >>back from as the real science becomes much better accepted.
    - but it does
    not talk about New Zealand's commitments under the Climate Change
    Treaty that the then National -led Government signed us up to . . . >>Irrelevant. The treaty is not binding and even if it was it can always be >>re-nogotiated or cancelled. Simple stuff really.
    You have raised that stupid proposal before - what do you think the
    effect of such a withdrawal from a Treaty may be to New Zealand, Tony? Probably zero.
    Has any New Zealand government ever raised that as a possible way to
    avoid commitments?
    Abuse removed
    Irrelevant nonsense. Treaties are always being re-nogotiated by many governmente and including ours. It is daily work. As it should be.
    Your point is pathetic.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BR@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 8 17:50:59 2024
    On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 20:46:12 +1200, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >>>>>places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is >>>>>2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs. >>>
    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation
    to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international
    Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who
    have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right
    wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly
    unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man
    made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man
    made climate change - do you, Bill?

    OK, so the Green party are a bunch of fakers. Who would have thought?

    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International
    Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are
    substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets.

    You couldn't resist bringing party politics into it, but let me get
    this straight.

    You approve of NZ's signing onto an international agreement which
    forces the country to reduce carbon emissions, even though you don't
    know anyone who believes in catastrophic man made climate change, and
    that it is in the interests of New Zealand to accept substantial costs
    for not meeting those targets.

    Have I got that about right?


    It is a
    complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking
    our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years.

    So why do you believe that signing on to such an agreement was in NZ's
    best interests?

    Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?

    What part should I disagree with? The part where it says that this
    agreement is in NZ's best interests, or the part where you say there
    will be substantial costs for non-compliance?

    Bill.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Apr 8 22:03:52 2024
    On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 17:50:59 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 20:46:12 +1200, Rich80105 <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in >>>>>>places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on.....

    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs. >>>>
    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation
    to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man
    made climate change - do you, Bill?

    OK, so the Green party are a bunch of fakers. Who would have thought?
    The Green Party do not believe that catastrophic climate change is
    solely due to mankind . . .


    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets.

    You couldn't resist bringing party politics into it, but let me get
    this straight.

    You approve of NZ's signing onto an international agreement which
    forces the country to reduce carbon emissions, even though you don't
    know anyone who believes in catastrophic man made climate change, and
    that it is in the interests of New Zealand to accept substantial costs
    for not meeting those targets.
    The treaty is not about catastrophic man-made climate change - it is
    about mitigating the effect on mankind on climate change, which while relatively small, is creating a potential catastrophic change to our
    climate.

    Have I got that about right?
    Of course not

    It is a
    complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking
    our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years.

    So why do you believe that signing on to such an agreement was in NZ's
    best interests?
    Because it is a global problem and New Zealand has done well from
    having an independent but active involvement in international issues,
    we are joining other countries concerned about global change to agree
    to do our share, and because it is also important to our trade - if we
    renege on the commitments we have made we may well lose trade
    partners. It seems some far-right nutters don't think trade matters.

    Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?

    What part should I disagree with? The part where it says that this
    agreement is in NZ's best interests, or the part where you say there
    will be substantial costs for non-compliance?

    Bill.
    Perhaps my responses may give you a reason for expressing a personal
    view . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Apr 8 19:38:42 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 17:50:59 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 20:46:12 +1200, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in
    places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which >>>>>>>is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on..... >>>>>>>
    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation >>>>>to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to.

    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man >>>made climate change - do you, Bill?

    OK, so the Green party are a bunch of fakers. Who would have thought?
    The Green Party do not believe that catastrophic climate change is
    solely due to mankind . . .


    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets.

    You couldn't resist bringing party politics into it, but let me get
    this straight.

    You approve of NZ's signing onto an international agreement which
    forces the country to reduce carbon emissions, even though you don't
    know anyone who believes in catastrophic man made climate change, and
    that it is in the interests of New Zealand to accept substantial costs
    for not meeting those targets.
    The treaty is not about catastrophic man-made climate change - it is
    about mitigating the effect on mankind on climate change, which while >relatively small, is creating a potential catastrophic change to our
    climate.
    It is not - find some prrof or go away.

    Have I got that about right?
    Of course not
    Yup.

    It is a
    complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking >>>our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years.

    So why do you believe that signing on to such an agreement was in NZ's
    best interests?
    Because it is a global problem and New Zealand has done well from
    having an independent but active involvement in international issues,
    we are joining other countries concerned about global change to agree
    to do our share, and because it is also important to our trade - if we
    renege on the commitments we have made we may well lose trade
    partners. It seems some far-right nutters don't think trade matters.
    Nonsense.

    Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?

    What part should I disagree with? The part where it says that this >>agreement is in NZ's best interests, or the part where you say there
    will be substantial costs for non-compliance?

    Bill.
    Perhaps my responses may give you a reason for expressing a personal
    view . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Apr 9 08:22:45 2024
    On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:38:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 17:50:59 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 20:46:12 +1200, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in
    places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which >>>>>>>>is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on..... >>>>>>>>
    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation >>>>>>to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to. >>>>>>
    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>>>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man >>>>made climate change - do you, Bill?

    OK, so the Green party are a bunch of fakers. Who would have thought?
    The Green Party do not believe that catastrophic climate change is
    solely due to mankind . . .


    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that
    a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>>>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions
    in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>>>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets.

    You couldn't resist bringing party politics into it, but let me get
    this straight.

    You approve of NZ's signing onto an international agreement which
    forces the country to reduce carbon emissions, even though you don't
    know anyone who believes in catastrophic man made climate change, and >>>that it is in the interests of New Zealand to accept substantial costs >>>for not meeting those targets.
    The treaty is not about catastrophic man-made climate change - it is
    about mitigating the effect on mankind on climate change, which while >>relatively small, is creating a potential catastrophic change to our >>climate.
    It is not - find some prrof or go away.
    There area lot of Professors that have shown that you are wrong; but
    there is no arguing with a bigoted denier.


    Have I got that about right?
    Of course not
    Yup.
    Thank you for your admission that I was right.

    It is a
    complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>>>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking >>>>our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the
    next few years.

    So why do you believe that signing on to such an agreement was in NZ's >>>best interests?
    Because it is a global problem and New Zealand has done well from
    having an independent but active involvement in international issues,
    we are joining other countries concerned about global change to agree
    to do our share, and because it is also important to our trade - if we >>renege on the commitments we have made we may well lose trade
    partners. It seems some far-right nutters don't think trade matters. >Nonsense.

    Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?

    What part should I disagree with? The part where it says that this >>>agreement is in NZ's best interests, or the part where you say there
    will be substantial costs for non-compliance?

    Bill.
    Perhaps my responses may give you a reason for expressing a personal
    view . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Apr 9 00:06:59 2024
    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:38:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 17:50:59 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 20:46:12 +1200, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising >>>>>>>>>in
    places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, >>>>>>>>>which
    is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>>>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on..... >>>>>>>>>
    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political >>>>>>>>beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation >>>>>>>to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to. >>>>>>>
    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>>>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>>>>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man >>>>>made climate change - do you, Bill?

    OK, so the Green party are a bunch of fakers. Who would have thought? >>>The Green Party do not believe that catastrophic climate change is
    solely due to mankind . . .


    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that >>>>>a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>>>>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions >>>>>in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>>>>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets.

    You couldn't resist bringing party politics into it, but let me get >>>>this straight.

    You approve of NZ's signing onto an international agreement which >>>>forces the country to reduce carbon emissions, even though you don't >>>>know anyone who believes in catastrophic man made climate change, and >>>>that it is in the interests of New Zealand to accept substantial costs >>>>for not meeting those targets.
    The treaty is not about catastrophic man-made climate change - it is >>>about mitigating the effect on mankind on climate change, which while >>>relatively small, is creating a potential catastrophic change to our >>>climate.
    It is not - find some prrof or go away.
    There area lot of Professors that have shown that you are wrong; but
    there is no arguing with a bigoted denier.
    Provide the evidence dimwit. you keep saying it exists but where the hell is it? Do tell us!


    Have I got that about right?
    Of course not
    Yup.
    Thank you for your admission that I was right.
    You are wrong. Period!

    It is a
    complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>>>>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking >>>>>our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the >>>>>next few years.

    So why do you believe that signing on to such an agreement was in NZ's >>>>best interests?
    Because it is a global problem and New Zealand has done well from
    having an independent but active involvement in international issues,
    we are joining other countries concerned about global change to agree
    to do our share, and because it is also important to our trade - if we >>>renege on the commitments we have made we may well lose trade
    partners. It seems some far-right nutters don't think trade matters. >>Nonsense.

    Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?

    What part should I disagree with? The part where it says that this >>>>agreement is in NZ's best interests, or the part where you say there >>>>will be substantial costs for non-compliance?

    Bill.
    Perhaps my responses may give you a reason for expressing a personal
    view . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Apr 9 04:05:58 2024
    On 2024-04-08, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:38:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 17:50:59 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 20:46:12 +1200, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are rising in
    places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, which
    is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>>>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on..... >>>>>>>>>
    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation >>>>>>>to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to. >>>>>>>
    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>>>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>>>>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man >>>>>made climate change - do you, Bill?

    OK, so the Green party are a bunch of fakers. Who would have thought? >>>The Green Party do not believe that catastrophic climate change is
    solely due to mankind . . .


    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that >>>>>a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>>>>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions >>>>>in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>>>>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets.

    You couldn't resist bringing party politics into it, but let me get >>>>this straight.

    You approve of NZ's signing onto an international agreement which >>>>forces the country to reduce carbon emissions, even though you don't >>>>know anyone who believes in catastrophic man made climate change, and >>>>that it is in the interests of New Zealand to accept substantial costs >>>>for not meeting those targets.
    The treaty is not about catastrophic man-made climate change - it is >>>about mitigating the effect on mankind on climate change, which while >>>relatively small, is creating a potential catastrophic change to our >>>climate.
    It is not - find some prrof or go away.
    There area lot of Professors that have shown that you are wrong; but
    there is no arguing with a bigoted denier.

    This is totally correct, and yet you continue to do it.

    Have you ever considered that you might be the bigoted denier?






    Have I got that about right?
    Of course not
    Yup.
    Thank you for your admission that I was right.

    It is a
    complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>>>>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking >>>>>our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the >>>>>next few years.

    So why do you believe that signing on to such an agreement was in NZ's >>>>best interests?
    Because it is a global problem and New Zealand has done well from
    having an independent but active involvement in international issues,
    we are joining other countries concerned about global change to agree
    to do our share, and because it is also important to our trade - if we >>>renege on the commitments we have made we may well lose trade
    partners. It seems some far-right nutters don't think trade matters. >>Nonsense.

    Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?

    What part should I disagree with? The part where it says that this >>>>agreement is in NZ's best interests, or the part where you say there >>>>will be substantial costs for non-compliance?

    Bill.
    Perhaps my responses may give you a reason for expressing a personal
    view . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Gordon on Tue Apr 9 06:39:53 2024
    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-04-08, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:38:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 17:50:59 +1200, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 20:46:12 +1200, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:16:36 +1300, BR <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 15:57:01 +1300, Rich80105 <[email protected]> >>>>>>>wrote:

    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:

    Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/04/ian-bradford-large-sea-level-rises-no.html

    This is yet another article which shows that the sea levels are >>>>>>>>>>rising in
    places, lowering in others, less in some places than the average, >>>>>>>>>>which
    is
    2-3mm/year.
    A bagatelle.

    Oh yes, also CO2 levels have nothing to do with it.
    CO2 levels are in no way threatening, and no scientific proof to the >>>>>>>>>contrary
    exists.

    A good comment

    All well evidenced.
    But...... nothing will deter the climate warriors who rage on..... >>>>>>>>>>
    This is the really frightening aspect.
    Yes it is. They are driven by ignorance, greed or crazy political >>>>>>>>>beliefs.

    This is clearly an unwarranted and vicious attempt at disinformation >>>>>>>>to attack the current government who have committed to meeting the >>>>>>>>targets relating to climate change arising from the international >>>>>>>>Treaty a previous National-led government signed New Zealand up to. >>>>>>>>
    I suspect these people are past supporters of the National Party who >>>>>>>>have moved to support the ACT Party, and are seeking to discredit >>>>>>>>Christopher Luxon with the hope that the current coalition will fall >>>>>>>>apart and enable David Seymour to come through as the dominant Right >>>>>>>>wing politician at the subsequent election - but it is certainly >>>>>>>>unusual to find a new government being riven by such a high level of >>>>>>>>division this early in their term.

    Without mentioning party politics, do you believe in catastrophic man >>>>>>>made climate change?

    Yes or no?

    Bill.

    That question keeps being asked by people who are really just being >>>>>>mischievous - I do not know of anyone who believes in catastrophic man >>>>>>made climate change - do you, Bill?

    OK, so the Green party are a bunch of fakers. Who would have thought? >>>>The Green Party do not believe that catastrophic climate change is >>>>solely due to mankind . . .


    I do however believe that it was in the interests of New Zealand that >>>>>>a previous National-led government signed us up to an International >>>>>>Agreement under which New Zealand is committed to certain reductions >>>>>>in for example carbon emissions, and an acceptance that there are >>>>>>substantial costs to be met should we not reach those targets.

    You couldn't resist bringing party politics into it, but let me get >>>>>this straight.

    You approve of NZ's signing onto an international agreement which >>>>>forces the country to reduce carbon emissions, even though you don't >>>>>know anyone who believes in catastrophic man made climate change, and >>>>>that it is in the interests of New Zealand to accept substantial costs >>>>>for not meeting those targets.
    The treaty is not about catastrophic man-made climate change - it is >>>>about mitigating the effect on mankind on climate change, which while >>>>relatively small, is creating a potential catastrophic change to our >>>>climate.
    It is not - find some prrof or go away.
    There area lot of Professors that have shown that you are wrong; but
    there is no arguing with a bigoted denier.

    This is totally correct, and yet you continue to do it.

    Have you ever considered that you might be the bigoted denier?
    No he has not - that sort of awareness requires a modest amount of honesty.






    Have I got that about right?
    Of course not
    Yup.
    Thank you for your admission that I was right.

    It is a
    complex area, but many find it sad that, while a majority of MPs in >>>>>>Parliament support that agreement, the government is currently risking >>>>>>our not meeting targets and having to pay considerable sums in the >>>>>>next few years.

    So why do you believe that signing on to such an agreement was in NZ's >>>>>best interests?
    Because it is a global problem and New Zealand has done well from >>>>having an independent but active involvement in international issues, >>>>we are joining other countries concerned about global change to agree >>>>to do our share, and because it is also important to our trade - if we >>>>renege on the commitments we have made we may well lose trade
    partners. It seems some far-right nutters don't think trade matters. >>>Nonsense.

    Do you disagree with that summary of New Zealand's
    situation at present in relation to "Climate Change", Bill?

    What part should I disagree with? The part where it says that this >>>>>agreement is in NZ's best interests, or the part where you say there >>>>>will be substantial costs for non-compliance?

    Bill.
    Perhaps my responses may give you a reason for expressing a personal >>>>view . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)