• Slowly things are returning to normal

    From Gordon@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 2 22:40:53 2024
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350232881/impossible-tell-if-boy-died-covid-19-vaccine-or-virus-says-coroner

    Perhaps not for this teenager, but the ability for the main stream media to report the subject is some detail.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to Gordon on Wed Apr 3 05:48:11 2024
    On 2 Apr 2024 22:40:53 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350232881/impossible-tell-if-boy-died-covid-19-vaccine-or-virus-says-coroner
    Perhaps not for this teenager, but the ability for the main stream media to >report the subject is some detail.

    Also see: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/513341/8000-unvaccinated-or-partly-vaccinated-health-workers-were-allowed-to-keep-working
    which doesn't say anything massively new, but the numerical breakdowns
    of the unvaccinated by medical profession is interesting.

    Also there is the usual total BS from Michael Baker who claims that
    20,000 lives were saved by the Covid vaccines -- utter horseshit -- if
    that were true, then we would have about 2,000 unvaccinated dead of
    covid since the population was vaccinated in 2021. But of course,
    nothing of the sort happened. When will the media ever perform some
    actual analysis of the misinformation spouted by the likes of Baker?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Willy Nilly on Wed Apr 3 21:35:52 2024
    On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 05:48:11 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On 2 Apr 2024 22:40:53 GMT, Gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350232881/impossible-tell-if-boy-died-covid-19-vaccine-or-virus-says-coroner
    Perhaps not for this teenager, but the ability for the main stream media to >>report the subject is some detail.

    Also see: >https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/513341/8000-unvaccinated-or-partly-vaccinated-health-workers-were-allowed-to-keep-working
    which doesn't say anything massively new, but the numerical breakdowns
    of the unvaccinated by medical profession is interesting.

    Also there is the usual total BS from Michael Baker who claims that
    20,000 lives were saved by the Covid vaccines -- utter horseshit -- if
    that were true, then we would have about 2,000 unvaccinated dead of
    covid since the population was vaccinated in 2021. But of course,
    nothing of the sort happened. When will the media ever perform some
    actual analysis of the misinformation spouted by the likes of Baker?


    First Baker claims that we saved 20,000 lives through the whole Covid
    response - not just through the vaccine. It can be justified in a
    number of ways, but the clearest is to compare what happened to
    expected deaths over the period compared with other countries.
    See: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&country=OWID_WRL~USA~BRA~NZL~GBR~AUS~NOR~SWE~CAN

    So choose the date at which you want to finish the cumulative data,
    take the difference between the rate for New Zealand, and the rate for
    another country, and apply that difference to our population - for New
    Zealand compared to sat the UK or USA it will work out to about 22,000
    deaths, compared to the world results we are a little better, but I
    don't trust the World results. So 20,000 is probably a it
    conservative. Note that for a considerable period we actually had
    lower deaths than we would have expected based on previous mortality
    rates - that was because we did not lose a lot of old people to
    influenza, had a lot fewer road deaths, but the big difference was due
    to our response to Covid, with the vaccine being a big part of that.
    There are a lot of people that did not have all the vaccines - we did
    not have 100% coverage in 2021 - but those not vaccinated were often
    partly protected by those around them being vaccinated, so the virus
    did not run rampant through their community. We are now finding out
    that teachers were particularly vulnerable - children do not keep
    apart, and while they may not have been sick themselves did pass on
    the virus to teachers, even if they had been vaccinated - did you
    realise that the vaccine was not 100% effective?

    How would you measure the number of lives saved, Willy Nilly?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Willy Nilly@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Apr 3 19:37:21 2024
    On Wed, 03 Apr 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 05:48:11 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/513341/8000-unvaccinated-or-partly-vaccinated-health-workers-were-allowed-to-keep-working
    Also there is the usual total BS from Michael Baker who claims that
    20,000 lives were saved by the Covid vaccines -- utter horseshit -- if
    that were true, then we would have about 2,000 unvaccinated dead of
    covid since the population was vaccinated in 2021. But of course,
    nothing of the sort happened. When will the media ever perform some
    actual analysis of the misinformation spouted by the likes of Baker?

    First Baker claims that we saved 20,000 lives through the whole Covid >response - not just through the vaccine.

    Just another of your cheap lies, Rich, the Baker quote is:
    "No-one sees those lives saved, those 20,000 New Zealanders who didn't
    die because of vaccination."

    It can be justified in a number of ways, but ...

    No it can't, and you go on to spout your usual worthless nonsense.

    How would you measure the number of lives saved, Willy Nilly?

    The vaccine only killed. Were some elderly given a few more years
    before they died their natural death? If so, it was massively
    counterbalanced by all the young deaths, and all those people who are
    still dying today from the after effects -- the microclots remaining
    in the blood and throughout the body, the heart damage, the incipient
    strokes, the sterilisation caused by spike proteins attacking the
    ovaries -- the covid vaccine is the worst medical crime in history.

    The young have had their life expectencies greatly reduced because
    their compromised hearts or brain embolisms will fail when they are in
    their 50's. This means you, Rich. Enjoy your ticking time bomb.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Willy Nilly on Thu Apr 4 11:11:35 2024
    On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 19:37:21 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote:

    On Wed, 03 Apr 2024, Rich80105 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 05:48:11 GMT, [email protected] (Willy Nilly) wrote: >>>https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/513341/8000-unvaccinated-or-partly-vaccinated-health-workers-were-allowed-to-keep-working
    Also there is the usual total BS from Michael Baker who claims that >>>20,000 lives were saved by the Covid vaccines -- utter horseshit -- if >>>that were true, then we would have about 2,000 unvaccinated dead of
    covid since the population was vaccinated in 2021. But of course, >>>nothing of the sort happened. When will the media ever perform some >>>actual analysis of the misinformation spouted by the likes of Baker?

    First Baker claims that we saved 20,000 lives through the whole Covid >>response - not just through the vaccine.

    Just another of your cheap lies, Rich, the Baker quote is:
    "No-one sees those lives saved, those 20,000 New Zealanders who didn't
    die because of vaccination."
    The full quote is:
    "The anti-vax group has grown a lot in New Zealand, and I think it's
    been driven by really appalling misinformation."

    The problem with a successful public health strategy was "nothing
    happens", he said.

    "No-one sees those lives saved, those 20,000 New Zealanders who didn't
    die because of vaccination."

    The mandates were a curb on people's freedoms - but it was always "a trade-off", he continued.

    "We didn't have compulsory vaccination as some countries had.
    Certainly there was a lot of pressure to get vaccinated if you stood
    to lose your job if you didn't, so that was coercive.

    "But you have to balance it against lives saved, reduced
    hospitalisations and fewer people getting long Covid."

    Baker has spoken a number of times, and made the point that
    vaccination was not the only response - a look at the evidence that I
    posted shows that there was lowered levels of mortality in New Zealand
    prior to the vaccine becoming available.


    It can be justified in a number of ways, but ...

    No it can't, and you go on to spout your usual worthless nonsense.

    You seem to have caught the Tony disease of deleting previous posts
    that you are unable to adequately argue against. Here it is again:

    First Baker claims that we saved 20,000 lives through the whole Covid
    response - not just through the vaccine. It can be justified in a
    number of ways, but the clearest is to compare what happened to
    expected deaths over the period compared with other countries.
    See: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-per-100k-economist?tab=chart&facet=none&country=OWID_WRL~USA~BRA~NZL~GBR~AUS~NOR~SWE~CAN

    So choose the date at which you want to finish the cumulative data,
    take the difference between the rate for New Zealand, and the rate for
    another country, and apply that difference to our population - for New
    Zealand compared to sat the UK or USA it will work out to about 22,000
    deaths, compared to the world results we are a little better, but I
    don't trust the World results. So 20,000 is probably a it
    conservative. Note that for a considerable period we actually had
    lower deaths than we would have expected based on previous mortality
    rates - that was because we did not lose a lot of old people to
    influenza, had a lot fewer road deaths, but the big difference was due
    to our response to Covid, with the vaccine being a big part of that.
    There are a lot of people that did not have all the vaccines - we did
    not have 100% coverage in 2021 - but those not vaccinated were often
    partly protected by those around them being vaccinated, so the virus
    did not run rampant through their community. We are now finding out
    that teachers were particularly vulnerable - children do not keep
    apart, and while they may not have been sick themselves did pass on
    the virus to teachers, even if they had been vaccinated - did you
    realise that the vaccine was not 100% effective?

    How would you measure the number of lives saved, Willy Nilly?


    How would you measure the number of lives saved, Willy Nilly?
    I note that you have not even tried to answer that question . . . it
    is all there in the scientific work of the international comparisons .
    . .


    The vaccine only killed.
    What rubbish - or is that just part of what Baker described as :
    "The anti-vax group has grown a lot in New Zealand, and I think it's
    been driven by really appalling misinformation."


    Were some elderly given a few more years
    before they died their natural death? If so, it was massively >counterbalanced by all the young deaths, and all those people who are
    still dying today from the after effects -- the microclots remaining
    in the blood and throughout the body, the heart damage, the incipient >strokes, the sterilisation caused by spike proteins attacking the
    ovaries -- the covid vaccine is the worst medical crime in history.
    Do you have any evidence for these assertions - or they part of what
    Baker called misinformation?

    Certainly you are wrong - see: https://www.tewhatuora.govt.nz/our-health-system/data-and-statistics/covid-19-data/covid-19-case-demographics/#age-and-ethnicity-of-deaths-where-covid-19-is-officially-coded-as-the-underlying-cause
    from which: Age of deaths where COVID-19 is officially coded as the
    underlying cause
    Age Group Total
    0 to 59 97
    50 to 69 161
    70 to 79 469
    80 to 89 940
    90+ 795
    Total 2,462





    The young have had their life expectencies greatly reduced because
    their compromised hearts or brain embolisms will fail when they are in
    their 50's. This means you, Rich. Enjoy your ticking time bomb.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Willy Nilly on Wed Apr 3 22:43:21 2024
    On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 19:37:21 GMT, Willy Nilly wrote:

    The vaccine only killed.

    That’s an example of what’s called “circular reasoning”. This is where you
    try to refute the other person’s argument by assuming yours is correct to begin with.

    That doesn’t work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)