• Reinvesting most of this year's RMD

    From Stan Brown@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 12 12:25:22 2022
    I have a taxable account and a traditional IRA at Vanguard. Both have
    index funds in Vanguard ETFs. For ease of discussion, let's say my
    RMD is $20,000 but I need only $4,000 of that for living expenses.

    I'm planning to sell $20,000 worth in the traditional IRA, transfer
    $4,000 of proceeds to my bank and the other $16,000 to the taxable
    account, and then buy shares of the same ETFs I sold in the IRA. In
    this way I'll avoid locking in most of this year's losses in fund
    values. Of course the whole $20,000 will be declared as ordinary
    income on my 2022 return.

    Question 1: Are there any tax pitfalls to this strategy? (I don't
    think this would be a wash sale, since the capital loss will be in
    the IRA and therefore I couldn't get any tax benefit from it anyway.
    But please correct me if I'm wrong, or if I could be creating some
    other tax problem.)

    Question 2: My basis in the new shares purchased in the taxable
    account will be that day's price, not original cost when I bought
    them in the IRA, right?

    Question 3: I'd prefer to transfer the $16,000 to my Roth, but I
    don't expect any earned income this year. With no earned income I
    can't put that traditional IRA money into the Roth, right?

    Thanks!


    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
    Shikata ga nai...

    --
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  • From ira smilovitz@21:1/5 to Stan Brown on Mon Sep 12 15:51:25 2022
    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:28:00 PM UTC-4, Stan Brown wrote:
    I have a taxable account and a traditional IRA at Vanguard. Both have
    index funds in Vanguard ETFs. For ease of discussion, let's say my
    RMD is $20,000 but I need only $4,000 of that for living expenses.

    I'm planning to sell $20,000 worth in the traditional IRA, transfer
    $4,000 of proceeds to my bank and the other $16,000 to the taxable
    account, and then buy shares of the same ETFs I sold in the IRA. In
    this way I'll avoid locking in most of this year's losses in fund
    values. Of course the whole $20,000 will be declared as ordinary
    income on my 2022 return.

    Question 1: Are there any tax pitfalls to this strategy? (I don't
    think this would be a wash sale, since the capital loss will be in
    the IRA and therefore I couldn't get any tax benefit from it anyway.
    But please correct me if I'm wrong, or if I could be creating some
    other tax problem.)

    Question 2: My basis in the new shares purchased in the taxable
    account will be that day's price, not original cost when I bought
    them in the IRA, right?

    Question 3: I'd prefer to transfer the $16,000 to my Roth, but I
    don't expect any earned income this year. With no earned income I
    can't put that traditional IRA money into the Roth, right?

    Thanks!


    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
    Shikata ga nai...

    --

    An easier method would be to transfer the $20,000 of ETFs directly to the taxable account (distribution in kind) and then sell $4,000 for your living expenses.

    You can't *contribute* to a Roth IRA (or any IRA) without compensation income for the year. You could convert some of your traditional IRA to a Roth IRA, reporting the conversion as additional income and paying the tax on the conversion. A conversion can
    only take place after you have taken your RMD for the year.

    Ira Smilovitz, EA
    Leonia, NJ

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
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  • From Stan Brown@21:1/5 to ira smilovitz on Thu Sep 29 12:39:35 2022
    On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:51:25 EDT, ira smilovitz wrote:

    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:28:00 PM UTC-4, Stan Brown wrote:
    I have a taxable account and a traditional IRA at Vanguard. Both have
    index funds in Vanguard ETFs. For ease of discussion, let's say my
    RMD is $20,000 but I need only $4,000 of that for living expenses.

    I'm planning to sell $20,000 worth in the traditional IRA, transfer
    $4,000 of proceeds to my bank and the other $16,000 to the taxable
    account, and then buy shares of the same ETFs I sold in the IRA. In
    this way I'll avoid locking in most of this year's losses in fund
    values. Of course the whole $20,000 will be declared as ordinary
    income on my 2022 return.

    An easier method would be to transfer the $20,000 of ETFs directly to the taxable account (distribution in kind) and then sell $4,000 for your living expenses.

    Thanks for replying, Ian. I've been trying to find out whether
    Vanguard offers that option -- their telephone support has
    deteriorated severely in the past months -- but the bottom line is
    that they do not. They support contributions in kind, but not
    distributions in kind.

    Just to confirm: if I sell shares in my traditional IRA, then move
    the cash to my taxable account and use it to buy shares in the same
    funds, I don't have any issue with the wash-sale rule, right?

    And I'm not creating some other tax problem by doing this, right?

    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
    Shikata ga nai...

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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  • From ira smilovitz@21:1/5 to Stan Brown on Thu Sep 29 17:37:37 2022
    On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 12:41:08 PM UTC-4, Stan Brown wrote:
    On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:51:25 EDT, ira smilovitz wrote:

    On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:28:00 PM UTC-4, Stan Brown wrote:
    I have a taxable account and a traditional IRA at Vanguard. Both have index funds in Vanguard ETFs. For ease of discussion, let's say my
    RMD is $20,000 but I need only $4,000 of that for living expenses.

    I'm planning to sell $20,000 worth in the traditional IRA, transfer $4,000 of proceeds to my bank and the other $16,000 to the taxable account, and then buy shares of the same ETFs I sold in the IRA. In
    this way I'll avoid locking in most of this year's losses in fund
    values. Of course the whole $20,000 will be declared as ordinary
    income on my 2022 return.

    An easier method would be to transfer the $20,000 of ETFs directly to the taxable account (distribution in kind) and then sell $4,000 for your living expenses.
    Thanks for replying, Ian. I've been trying to find out whether
    Vanguard offers that option -- their telephone support has
    deteriorated severely in the past months -- but the bottom line is
    that they do not. They support contributions in kind, but not
    distributions in kind.

    Just to confirm: if I sell shares in my traditional IRA, then move
    the cash to my taxable account and use it to buy shares in the same
    funds, I don't have any issue with the wash-sale rule, right?

    And I'm not creating some other tax problem by doing this, right?
    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
    Shikata ga nai...

    --

    Either they're giving you wrong information or you are not understanding them. You cannot, by law, make a contribution in kind to a retirement account. You can make a broker-to-broker rollover to a retirement account. I have not heard of any broker that
    will not do a distribution in-kind from a retirement account to a taxable account except for certain classes of investments that are restricted to retirement accounts (perhaps a special class of mutual fund shares).

    If you sell within the IRA, distribute cash, and then buy in the taxable account, you will not have a wash sale because you didn't receive any tax benefit from the loss. Note that if you do this in the opposite direction, sell for a loss in a taxable
    account and then buy in a retirement account, the loss is lost forever. You cannot claim the loss and there is no effect to adjusting the cost basis within the retirement account.

    Ira Smilovitz, EA
    Leonia, NJ

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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  • From Stan Brown@21:1/5 to ira smilovitz on Fri Sep 30 18:55:14 2022
    On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 17:37:37 EDT, ira smilovitz wrote:

    Either they're giving you wrong information or you are not
    understanding them. You cannot, by law, make a contribution in kind
    to a retirement account. You can make a broker-to-broker rollover
    to a retirement account. I have not heard of any broker that will
    not do a distribution in-kind from a retirement account to a
    taxable account except for certain classes of investments that are
    restricted to retirement accounts (perhaps a special class of mutual
    fund shares).

    Thanks, Ira. FWIW Vanguard told me the exact opposite: "you can make
    a contribution in kind, but not do a distribution in kind." Maybe I misunderstood, maybe the rep had a slip of the tongue, but based on
    what you said I think I got bad information. Given how many hours it
    took to get that answer, I'm not inclined to try again.

    If you sell within the IRA, distribute cash, and then buy in the
    taxable account, you will not have a wash sale because you didn't
    receive any tax benefit from the loss.

    I was pretty sure it worked that way, but was _not_ sure I had an
    accurate answer from Vanguard. I'm going to cut my losses (of time)
    and sell in the IRA, distribute cash, and buy in the taxable account.

    Note that if you do this in the opposite direction, sell for a loss
    in a taxable account and then buy in a retirement account, the loss
    is lost forever. You cannot claim the loss and there is no effect
    to adjusting the cost basis within the retirement account.

    A good reminder. When I need to sell from the taxable account, I'll
    want to time it more than 30 days before or after any automatic
    dividend reinvestment ("DRIP") in the IRA.

    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
    Shikata ga nai...

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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