• A question for nospam

    From Hank Rogers@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 4 17:17:37 2023
    You are my best bet for figuring this out, if you can spare a few
    milliseconds time:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively, because I
    like it. I often leave a tab containing a web page .eg. national
    weather service, but could be any other web page. Usually, if I tap
    the reload icon, it will reload the latest version of that web
    page, exactly as it should.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be resurrected by
    reloading directly from the bookmark. Even the crummiest browsers
    on desktops never fail in this way.

    Why does safari completely loose it's shit after a while? Is this a
    bug? Is my iphone defective? Did I miss something about how it's
    supposed to work? In settings, I have chosen to never close tabs
    after any particular time, but close them only manually.

    I realize you are very busy squabbling over minutia, but I would
    appreciate it if you can make a little time for this. If not, I
    guess Arlen is my next best bet, but I'd rather not deal with that
    genius.

    Thank you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Feb 4 18:52:05 2023
    In article <sIBDL.86087$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    You are my best bet for figuring this out, if you can spare a few milliseconds time:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively, because I
    like it. I often leave a tab containing a web page .eg. national
    weather service, but could be any other web page. Usually, if I tap
    the reload icon, it will reload the latest version of that web
    page, exactly as it should.

    the web page should automatically reload, although that's partly
    dependent on the website itself.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be resurrected by
    reloading directly from the bookmark. Even the crummiest browsers
    on desktops never fail in this way.

    Why does safari completely loose it's shit after a while? Is this a
    bug? Is my iphone defective? Did I miss something about how it's
    supposed to work? In settings, I have chosen to never close tabs
    after any particular time, but close them only manually.

    it's hard to remotely diagnose it. can you describe how to duplicate
    it? i've not seen that happen, although i don't keep very many tabs
    open. does it happen with other browsers?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Rogers@21:1/5 to nospam on Sat Feb 4 19:43:52 2023
    nospam wrote:
    In article <sIBDL.86087$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:

    You are my best bet for figuring this out, if you can spare a few
    milliseconds time:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively, because I
    like it. I often leave a tab containing a web page .eg. national
    weather service, but could be any other web page. Usually, if I tap
    the reload icon, it will reload the latest version of that web
    page, exactly as it should.

    the web page should automatically reload, although that's partly
    dependent on the website itself.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be resurrected by
    reloading directly from the bookmark. Even the crummiest browsers
    on desktops never fail in this way.

    Why does safari completely loose it's shit after a while? Is this a
    bug? Is my iphone defective? Did I miss something about how it's
    supposed to work? In settings, I have chosen to never close tabs
    after any particular time, but close them only manually.

    it's hard to remotely diagnose it. can you describe how to duplicate
    it? i've not seen that happen, although i don't keep very many tabs
    open. does it happen with other browsers?


    Never happens with any browsers on desktop machines. I only have
    the one iphone, and rarely use any browser other than safari. If I
    leave a web page open in safari, it may work for several days or
    even a week, but eventually, safari quits working with that web
    page. Can't reload the page. Nothing works except reloading it
    directly from bookmarks. Safari just shits itself. It never gives
    an error message. I can "share" it with firefox which works, but
    I'd rather use safari if it didn't fuck up.

    Thanks for trying. I had hoped to find out why safari fails. It
    has been the same for the last 3 or so IOS updates, so nothing new.

    You probably don't know anything, but I thought I'd ask.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Feb 4 21:17:31 2023
    In article <ARDDL.100357$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively, because I
    like it. I often leave a tab containing a web page .eg. national
    weather service, but could be any other web page. Usually, if I tap
    the reload icon, it will reload the latest version of that web
    page, exactly as it should.

    the web page should automatically reload, although that's partly
    dependent on the website itself.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be resurrected by
    reloading directly from the bookmark. Even the crummiest browsers
    on desktops never fail in this way.

    Why does safari completely loose it's shit after a while? Is this a
    bug? Is my iphone defective? Did I miss something about how it's
    supposed to work? In settings, I have chosen to never close tabs
    after any particular time, but close them only manually.

    it's hard to remotely diagnose it. can you describe how to duplicate
    it? i've not seen that happen, although i don't keep very many tabs
    open. does it happen with other browsers?


    Never happens with any browsers on desktop machines.

    desktop and mobile systems have very different memory constraints.

    try different browsers on the iphone.

    I only have
    the one iphone, and rarely use any browser other than safari. If I
    leave a web page open in safari, it may work for several days or
    even a week, but eventually, safari quits working with that web
    page. Can't reload the page. Nothing works except reloading it
    directly from bookmarks. Safari just shits itself. It never gives
    an error message. I can "share" it with firefox which works, but
    I'd rather use safari if it didn't fuck up.

    that doesn't sound normal.

    tabs will reload if the memory was purged (which often happens) but it shouldn't cause the app itself to crash.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From badgolferman@21:1/5 to Hank Rogers on Sun Feb 5 03:56:14 2023
    Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:
    nospam wrote:
    In article <ARDDL.100357$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively, because I
    like it. I often leave a tab containing a web page .eg. national
    weather service, but could be any other web page. Usually, if I tap
    the reload icon, it will reload the latest version of that web
    page, exactly as it should.

    the web page should automatically reload, although that's partly
    dependent on the website itself.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be resurrected by
    reloading directly from the bookmark. Even the crummiest browsers
    on desktops never fail in this way.

    Why does safari completely loose it's shit after a while? Is this a
    bug? Is my iphone defective? Did I miss something about how it's
    supposed to work? In settings, I have chosen to never close tabs
    after any particular time, but close them only manually.

    it's hard to remotely diagnose it. can you describe how to duplicate
    it? i've not seen that happen, although i don't keep very many tabs
    open. does it happen with other browsers?


    Never happens with any browsers on desktop machines.

    desktop and mobile systems have very different memory constraints.

    try different browsers on the iphone.

    I only have
    the one iphone, and rarely use any browser other than safari. If I
    leave a web page open in safari, it may work for several days or
    even a week, but eventually, safari quits working with that web
    page. Can't reload the page. Nothing works except reloading it
    directly from bookmarks. Safari just shits itself. It never gives
    an error message. I can "share" it with firefox which works, but
    I'd rather use safari if it didn't fuck up.

    that doesn't sound normal.

    tabs will reload if the memory was purged (which often happens) but it
    shouldn't cause the app itself to crash.


    It doesn't crash. It still works on other tabs. If I try to view
    the tab that has gone bad, nothing happens. Tapping the reload icon
    has no effect ( it doesn't change to an X (stop symbol), and the
    tab stays black. But if I go to another tab, it works OK. Unless
    that tab has also shit itself. When safari craps out like this, I
    CAN hit the share symbol and send it to firefox, and it works just
    fine. That's the only other browser on this phone, which I rarely
    use. I want safari to work properly.





    Are you using Private mode? Try using the regular mode and see if the same thing happens.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Rogers@21:1/5 to nospam on Sat Feb 4 21:48:13 2023
    nospam wrote:
    In article <ARDDL.100357$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively, because I
    like it. I often leave a tab containing a web page .eg. national
    weather service, but could be any other web page. Usually, if I tap
    the reload icon, it will reload the latest version of that web
    page, exactly as it should.

    the web page should automatically reload, although that's partly
    dependent on the website itself.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be resurrected by
    reloading directly from the bookmark. Even the crummiest browsers
    on desktops never fail in this way.

    Why does safari completely loose it's shit after a while? Is this a
    bug? Is my iphone defective? Did I miss something about how it's
    supposed to work? In settings, I have chosen to never close tabs
    after any particular time, but close them only manually.

    it's hard to remotely diagnose it. can you describe how to duplicate
    it? i've not seen that happen, although i don't keep very many tabs
    open. does it happen with other browsers?


    Never happens with any browsers on desktop machines.

    desktop and mobile systems have very different memory constraints.

    try different browsers on the iphone.

    I only have
    the one iphone, and rarely use any browser other than safari. If I
    leave a web page open in safari, it may work for several days or
    even a week, but eventually, safari quits working with that web
    page. Can't reload the page. Nothing works except reloading it
    directly from bookmarks. Safari just shits itself. It never gives
    an error message. I can "share" it with firefox which works, but
    I'd rather use safari if it didn't fuck up.

    that doesn't sound normal.

    tabs will reload if the memory was purged (which often happens) but it shouldn't cause the app itself to crash.


    It doesn't crash. It still works on other tabs. If I try to view
    the tab that has gone bad, nothing happens. Tapping the reload icon
    has no effect ( it doesn't change to an X (stop symbol), and the
    tab stays black. But if I go to another tab, it works OK. Unless
    that tab has also shit itself. When safari craps out like this, I
    CAN hit the share symbol and send it to firefox, and it works just
    fine. That's the only other browser on this phone, which I rarely
    use. I want safari to work properly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Rogers@21:1/5 to badgolferman on Sat Feb 4 22:21:52 2023
    badgolferman wrote:
    Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:
    nospam wrote:
    In article <ARDDL.100357$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively, because I
    like it. I often leave a tab containing a web page .eg. national
    weather service, but could be any other web page. Usually, if I tap >>>>>> the reload icon, it will reload the latest version of that web
    page, exactly as it should.

    the web page should automatically reload, although that's partly
    dependent on the website itself.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be resurrected by
    reloading directly from the bookmark. Even the crummiest browsers
    on desktops never fail in this way.

    Why does safari completely loose it's shit after a while? Is this a >>>>>> bug? Is my iphone defective? Did I miss something about how it's
    supposed to work? In settings, I have chosen to never close tabs
    after any particular time, but close them only manually.

    it's hard to remotely diagnose it. can you describe how to duplicate >>>>> it? i've not seen that happen, although i don't keep very many tabs
    open. does it happen with other browsers?


    Never happens with any browsers on desktop machines.

    desktop and mobile systems have very different memory constraints.

    try different browsers on the iphone.

    I only have
    the one iphone, and rarely use any browser other than safari. If I
    leave a web page open in safari, it may work for several days or
    even a week, but eventually, safari quits working with that web
    page. Can't reload the page. Nothing works except reloading it
    directly from bookmarks. Safari just shits itself. It never gives
    an error message. I can "share" it with firefox which works, but
    I'd rather use safari if it didn't fuck up.

    that doesn't sound normal.

    tabs will reload if the memory was purged (which often happens) but it
    shouldn't cause the app itself to crash.


    It doesn't crash. It still works on other tabs. If I try to view
    the tab that has gone bad, nothing happens. Tapping the reload icon
    has no effect ( it doesn't change to an X (stop symbol), and the
    tab stays black. But if I go to another tab, it works OK. Unless
    that tab has also shit itself. When safari craps out like this, I
    CAN hit the share symbol and send it to firefox, and it works just
    fine. That's the only other browser on this phone, which I rarely
    use. I want safari to work properly.





    Are you using Private mode? Try using the regular mode and see if the same thing happens.


    Nope, regular mode. I'll see if it does that on private mode too.

    I thought about removing it and re installing safari. Do you think
    that might help?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Feb 4 23:44:51 2023
    In article <8GFDL.500590$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I only have
    the one iphone, and rarely use any browser other than safari. If I
    leave a web page open in safari, it may work for several days or
    even a week, but eventually, safari quits working with that web
    page. Can't reload the page. Nothing works except reloading it
    directly from bookmarks. Safari just shits itself. It never gives
    an error message. I can "share" it with firefox which works, but
    I'd rather use safari if it didn't fuck up.

    that doesn't sound normal.

    tabs will reload if the memory was purged (which often happens) but it shouldn't cause the app itself to crash.


    It doesn't crash. It still works on other tabs. If I try to view
    the tab that has gone bad, nothing happens. Tapping the reload icon
    has no effect ( it doesn't change to an X (stop symbol), and the
    tab stays black. But if I go to another tab, it works OK. Unless
    that tab has also shit itself.

    ok, i thought by 'safari shits itself', you meant safari crashed, not
    just the tab. either way, it's not normal.

    is it always the same web pages that are problematic? or is it a
    function of how long it's been since reloading?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to Hank Rogers on Sun Feb 5 10:10:49 2023
    On 2023-02-04 18:17, Hank Rogers wrote:
    You are my best bet for figuring this out, if you can spare a few milliseconds time:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively, because I like
    it. I often leave a tab containing a web page  .eg. national weather service, but could be any other web page. Usually, if I tap the reload
    icon, it will reload the latest version of that web page, exactly as it should.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be resurrected by reloading directly from the bookmark. Even the crummiest browsers on desktops
    never fail in this way.

    I'll jump in too.

    1) I've never had an issue with Safari on my iPhone 6 or 11. I don't
    use it a lot but I do use it to search for things when out and about
    that I can't find through hospitality apps or Maps.

    Can you provide 2 or 3 links to where this is more likely to occur?
    While Safari _should_ be immune to bad code, it's not guaranteed to be.

    2) Not strictly on topic: Why would you use Safari for the weather?
    There are many apps for that that present better than a webpage on a phone.

    Indeed prompted by this thread, I just cleaned out some old, no longer
    working links from the BMs in Safari on my phone.

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From badgolferman@21:1/5 to Hank Rogers on Sun Feb 5 14:41:11 2023
    Hank Rogers wrote:

    badgolferman wrote:
    Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:
    nospam wrote:
    In article <ARDDL.100357$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers >>>><[email protected]d> wrote:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively,
    because I like it. I often leave a tab containing a web
    page .eg. national weather service, but could be any
    other web page. Usually, if I tap the reload icon, it
    will reload the latest version of that web page, exactly
    as it should.

    the web page should automatically reload, although that's
    partly dependent on the website itself.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be
    resurrected by reloading directly from the bookmark. Even
    the crummiest browsers on desktops never fail in this way.

    Why does safari completely loose it's shit after a while?
    Is this a bug? Is my iphone defective? Did I miss
    something about how it's supposed to work? In settings,
    I have chosen to never close tabs after any particular
    time, but close them only manually.

    it's hard to remotely diagnose it. can you describe how to >>>>>>duplicate it? i've not seen that happen, although i don't
    keep very many tabs open. does it happen with other
    browsers?


    Never happens with any browsers on desktop machines.

    desktop and mobile systems have very different memory
    constraints.

    try different browsers on the iphone.

    I only have
    the one iphone, and rarely use any browser other than safari.
    If I leave a web page open in safari, it may work for several
    days or even a week, but eventually, safari quits working
    with that web page. Can't reload the page. Nothing works
    except reloading it directly from bookmarks. Safari just
    shits itself. It never gives an error message. I can "share"
    it with firefox which works, but I'd rather use safari if it
    didn't fuck up.

    that doesn't sound normal.

    tabs will reload if the memory was purged (which often happens)
    but it shouldn't cause the app itself to crash.


    It doesn't crash. It still works on other tabs. If I try to view
    the tab that has gone bad, nothing happens. Tapping the reload
    icon has no effect ( it doesn't change to an X (stop symbol), and
    the tab stays black. But if I go to another tab, it works OK.
    Unless that tab has also shit itself. When safari craps out like
    this, I CAN hit the share symbol and send it to firefox, and it
    works just fine. That's the only other browser on this phone,
    which I rarely use. I want safari to work properly.





    Are you using Private mode? Try using the regular mode and see if
    the same thing happens.


    Nope, regular mode. I'll see if it does that on private mode too.

    I thought about removing it and re installing safari. Do you think
    that might help?

    I don't think you can uninstall Safari since it's part of the operating
    system. Much like Internet Explorer and Windows.

    Maybe you should test Firefox or Chrome for the same behavior. I'm not
    sure it will make much difference since they all use Webkit as thier
    rendering engine though.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Rogers@21:1/5 to nospam on Sun Feb 5 12:55:38 2023
    nospam wrote:
    In article <8GFDL.500590$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I only have
    the one iphone, and rarely use any browser other than safari. If I
    leave a web page open in safari, it may work for several days or
    even a week, but eventually, safari quits working with that web
    page. Can't reload the page. Nothing works except reloading it
    directly from bookmarks. Safari just shits itself. It never gives
    an error message. I can "share" it with firefox which works, but
    I'd rather use safari if it didn't fuck up.

    that doesn't sound normal.

    tabs will reload if the memory was purged (which often happens) but it
    shouldn't cause the app itself to crash.


    It doesn't crash. It still works on other tabs. If I try to view
    the tab that has gone bad, nothing happens. Tapping the reload icon
    has no effect ( it doesn't change to an X (stop symbol), and the
    tab stays black. But if I go to another tab, it works OK. Unless
    that tab has also shit itself.

    ok, i thought by 'safari shits itself', you meant safari crashed, not
    just the tab. either way, it's not normal.

    is it always the same web pages that are problematic? or is it a
    function of how long it's been since reloading?


    As far as I can tell, any web page can go bad. Some seem worse than
    others, but maybe it's because I use them more and notice it more.
    .
    It can happen in less than 24 hours, or it can work several days.
    Some web pages seem to hang on and work longer than others. For
    example, duck duck go rarely screws up. US weather service's pages
    usually never last more than a few days at best.

    I thought of deleting safari and downloading it again, but that
    isn't possible. You can only move it's icon to the app "library".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Rogers@21:1/5 to nospam on Sun Feb 5 13:02:27 2023
    nospam wrote:
    In article <C9GDL.100358$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I thought about removing it and re installing safari. Do you think
    that might help?

    no.

    what you can do is try clearing history and website data and also
    changing the close tabs option.


    I do that occasionally to clean things up, but it's never stopped
    the problem.

    > are you using any content blockers? if so, disable them.>

    I have Hyperweb, Wipr, and Autarkey. I'll try disabling to see if
    any difference. It will take some time to know if any effect, but
    I'll report back.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Rogers@21:1/5 to Alan Browne on Sun Feb 5 13:13:57 2023
    Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-02-04 18:17, Hank Rogers wrote:
    You are my best bet for figuring this out, if you can spare a few
    milliseconds time:

    I use Safari on iphone (latest IOS) almost exclusively, because I
    like it. I often leave a tab containing a web page  .eg.
    national weather service, but could be any other web page.
    Usually, if I tap the reload icon, it will reload the latest
    version of that web page, exactly as it should.

    But eventually, it always dies, and can only be resurrected by
    reloading directly from the bookmark. Even the crummiest browsers
    on desktops never fail in this way.

    I'll jump in too.

    1) I've never had an issue with Safari on my iPhone 6 or 11.� I
    don't use it a lot but I do use it to search for things when out
    and about that I can't find through hospitality apps or Maps.

    Can you provide 2 or 3 links to where this is more likely to occur?
    While Safari _should_ be immune to bad code, it's not guaranteed to
    be.

    2) Not strictly on topic:� Why would you use Safari for the
    weather? There are many apps for that that present better than a
    webpage on a phone.

    Indeed prompted by this thread, I just cleaned out some old, no
    longer working links from the BMs in Safari on my phone.


    I like the national weather service, maybe because I've used it for
    30 years. Any of their pages are good examples of the problem, but
    any other page can fail after a while.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Hank Rogers on Sun Feb 5 19:38:19 2023
    On 2023-02-05, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:
    nospam wrote:
    In article <8GFDL.500590$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I only have the one iphone, and rarely use any browser other than
    safari. If I leave a web page open in safari, it may work for
    several days or even a week, but eventually, safari quits working
    with that web page. Can't reload the page. Nothing works except
    reloading it directly from bookmarks. Safari just shits itself. It
    never gives an error message. I can "share" it with firefox which
    works, but I'd rather use safari if it didn't fuck up.

    that doesn't sound normal.

    tabs will reload if the memory was purged (which often happens) but
    it shouldn't cause the app itself to crash.


    It doesn't crash. It still works on other tabs. If I try to view the
    tab that has gone bad, nothing happens. Tapping the reload icon has
    no effect ( it doesn't change to an X (stop symbol), and the tab
    stays black. But if I go to another tab, it works OK. Unless that
    tab has also shit itself.

    ok, i thought by 'safari shits itself', you meant safari crashed, not
    just the tab. either way, it's not normal.

    is it always the same web pages that are problematic? or is it a
    function of how long it's been since reloading?


    As far as I can tell, any web page can go bad. Some seem worse than
    others, but maybe it's because I use them more and notice it more. .
    It can happen in less than 24 hours, or it can work several days.
    Some web pages seem to hang on and work longer than others. For
    example, duck duck go rarely screws up. US weather service's pages
    usually never last more than a few days at best.

    I thought of deleting safari and downloading it again, but that isn't possible. You can only move it's icon to the app "library".

    You can delete website data though, which is where the issue may lie.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Hank Rogers on Sun Feb 5 19:40:25 2023
    On 2023-02-05, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:
    nospam wrote:
    In article <C9GDL.100358$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I thought about removing it and re installing safari. Do you think
    that might help?

    no.

    what you can do is try clearing history and website data and also
    changing the close tabs option.

    I do that occasionally to clean things up, but it's never stopped the problem.

    are you using any content blockers? if so, disable them.>

    I have Hyperweb, Wipr, and Autarkey. I'll try disabling to see if any difference. It will take some time to know if any effect, but I'll
    report back.

    Since this isn't a widespread issue, I'm betting on one of those being
    the culprit.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

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