I predict nospam will think this is a bad idea...
-----------
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone�s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European
legal requirement � this one about battery replacement.
A proposed new law would require electronics companies like Apple to
ensure that consumers are �easily� able to remove and replace batteries themselves �
i do have an issue with the eu forcing companies how to design their products, especially those sold outside of the eu.
I predict nospam will think this is a bad idea...
-----------
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone’s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European legal requirement – this one about battery replacement.
A proposed new law would require electronics companies like Apple to
ensure that consumers are “easily” able to remove and replace batteries themselves …
In article <[email protected]>,
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
I predict nospam will think this is a bad idea...
you predict incorrectly.
i do have an issue with the eu forcing companies how to design their products, especially those sold outside of the eu.
i do have an issue with the eu forcing companies how to design their products, especially those sold outside of the eu.
That is a downright lie.
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else
on this planet is free to do their own things.
The only country trying to implement law outside its territory are the USA.
as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales,
largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device
(absent defects, covered by warranty).
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone��s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European legal requirement �V this one about battery replacement.
Apple's business model is predicated on limiting the choice of the
consumer, always nudging the consumer by limiting device capabilities.
As part of that business model, Apple designs batteries that expire well before the hardware ever will - which then helps to nudge the consumer to choose between complete loss of their phone for the time it takes to
replace the very expensive battery or buying a new Apple iPhone instead.
There's no way Apple will allow iPhone batteries to be easily replaced because it would negate Apple's planned obsolescence sales strategy.
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else
on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific version, especially with hardware.
Apple's business model is predicated on limiting the choice of the
consumer, always nudging the consumer by limiting device capabilities.
As part of that business model, Apple designs batteries that expire well before the hardware ever will - which then helps to nudge the consumer to choose between complete loss of their phone for the time it takes to
replace the very expensive battery or buying a new Apple iPhone instead.
There's no way Apple will allow iPhone batteries to be easily replaced because it would negate Apple's planned obsolescence sales strategy.
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else
on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific version, especially with hardware.
Didn't something like 20 million iPhones very prematurely stop working in a single year due to batteries (which were then replaced at consumer cost)?
and no. it didn't.
https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/21/battery-replacement/
i do have an issue with the eu forcing companies how to design their products, especially those sold outside of the eu.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an
eu-specific version, especially with hardware.
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else >> on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific version, especially with hardware.
Smartphone companies make regional phone models all the time.
Apple's business model is predicated on limiting the choice of the
consumer, always nudging the consumer by limiting device capabilities.
As part of that business model, Apple designs batteries that expire well before the hardware ever will
- which then helps to nudge the consumer to
choose between complete loss of their phone for the time it takes to
replace the very expensive battery or buying a new Apple iPhone instead.
There's no way Apple will allow iPhone batteries to be easily replaced because it would negate Apple's planned obsolescence sales strategy.
- which then helps to nudge the consumer to
choose between complete loss of their phone for the time it takes to
replace the very expensive battery or buying a new Apple iPhone instead.
false, and the time it takes to replace it is a couple of minutes if
done by the user.
the reality is that if that had happened, there would have been quite
the outcry.
Making it easy for a customer to repair a phone goes against Apple mantra.
In article <news:211220221706184616%[email protected]d>, nospam <[email protected]d> says...
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else >>> on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific
version, especially with hardware.
Smartphone companies make regional phone models all the time.
On 12/21/2022 3:34 PM, nospam wrote:
and no. it didn't.
You're wrong.
Just loading iOS 10.2 onto millions of iPhones killed them.
The iPhone hardware lasts many times longer than does the battery.
Of course, with the new Self-Repair Program, Apple can already claim
the user can replace the battery ... although it's not "easy" to do and
requires relatively specialised tools and process.
it's not difficult and they provide the tools, or they can be obtained elsewhere.
as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales, largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device
(absent defects, covered by warranty).
Yeah that�s palpable bullshit. I had the battery replaced for my 7+. It
added a few years because I�m not a buy every year cultist.
In article <to00h8$192c$[email protected]>, Big Dog <[email protected]>
wrote:
Didn't something like 20 million iPhones very prematurely stop working in a >> single year due to batteries (which were then replaced at consumer cost)?
hi arlen.
and no. it didn't.
as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales,
largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device
(absent defects, covered by warranty).
they're also 'easily swapped', it just needs a screwdriver rather than
a fingernail (to pop off the back). in other words, it takes an extra
minute or two.
In article <[email protected]>,
*Hemidactylus* <[email protected]d> wrote:
as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales,Yeah that¹s palpable bullshit. I had the battery replaced for my 7+. It
largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device
(absent defects, covered by warranty).
added a few years because I¹m not a buy every year cultist.
nobody said anything about buying a new phone every year.
a 7+ is six years old. very few people still use phones that old.
replacing a battery is certainly an option but most people will choose
a new phone.
Of course, with the new Self-Repair Program, Apple can already claim
the user can replace the battery ... although it's not "easy" to do and requires relatively specialised tools and process.
I predict nospam will think this is a bad idea...
-----------
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone???s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European legal requirement ??? this one about battery replacement.
A proposed new law would require electronics companies like Apple to
ensure that consumers are ???easily??? able to remove and replace batteries themselves ???
https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/21/battery-replacement/
nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
In article <to00h8$192c$[email protected]>, Big Dog <[email protected]>I had my 7+ battery replaced because I witnessed the reduction in
wrote:
Didn't something like 20 million iPhones very prematurely stop
working in a single year due to batteries (which were then replaced
at consumer cost)?
hi arlen.
and no. it didn't.
charging having an effect in how long before the next one.
nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
[snip]
as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales,
largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device
(absent defects, covered by warranty).
Yeah that’s palpable bullshit. I had the battery replaced for my 7+.
It added a few years
nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,I had the battery changed in 2019 just before the pandemic.
*Hemidactylus* <[email protected]d> wrote:
as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect onYeah that¹s palpable bullshit. I had the battery replaced for my 7+.
sales, largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the
device (absent defects, covered by warranty).
It added a few years because I¹m not a buy every year cultist.
nobody said anything about buying a new phone every year.
a 7+ is six years old. very few people still use phones that old.
replacing a battery is certainly an option but most people will
choose a new phone.
as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales,Yeah that's palpable bullshit. I had the battery replaced for my 7+. It
largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device
(absent defects, covered by warranty).
added a few years because I'm not a buy every year cultist.
they're also 'easily swapped', it just needs a screwdriver rather thanYeah that seems a big load of crap too. Why did I seem compelled to have Apple do it and a bit guilty for doing so?
a fingernail (to pop off the back). in other words, it takes an extra
minute or two.
I had my 7+ battery replaced because I witnessed the reduction in
charging having an effect in how long before the next one.
NEWSFLASH: Batteries have finite lifespans and eventually need to be replaced.
What nospam was saying was the batteries outlast the iPhone hardware.
What Hemidactylus and Big Dog were saying was they wholeheartedly agree
with your statement that the iPhone hardware outlasts the batteries.
Who do you think is right?
as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales,Yeah that1s palpable bullshit. I had the battery replaced for my 7+. It
largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device
(absent defects, covered by warranty).
added a few years because I1m not a buy every year cultist.
nobody said anything about buying a new phone every year.
a 7+ is six years old. very few people still use phones that old.
replacing a battery is certainly an option but most people will choose
a new phone.
I had the battery changed in 2019 just before the pandemic. Don�t try to bs me on this and lose your hard earned credibility on that. I had respect for you.
you didn't say when you replaced it. in 2019, it would have been ~3
years old, which is on the shorter side of typical but not unusual for
it to need replacement.
it's now six years old and no longer supported with ios 16.
A proposed new law would require electronics companies like Apple to
ensure that consumers are “easily” able to remove and replace batteries themselves …
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
A proposed new law would require electronics companies like Apple to
ensure that consumers are “easily” able to remove and replace batteries >> themselves …
While this sounds like a great idea (and I am all for it), there are a
couple of points I have not seen addressed.
What happens to the water resistant rating of the phone when the back is “easily” removed? Can the battery compartment remain sealed?
But more importantly, phone batteries are not like flashlight batteries. Flashlights all use the same batteries. Phone batteries would need to be standardized into shapes and sizes, which I don’t think they are right now.
Correct me if I am wrong here. If I want to replace my iPhone 7 battery from 2016, are iPhone 7 batteries still being made? Or am I replacing it with a 3 (or more) year old battery?
Standard phone battery sizes and shapes - where ALL phones use one of these batteries - would go a long way to make this idea practical. We need the equivalent of AA, AAA, C and D (for example) batteries for phones. Same sizes and SAME FRIGGIN CONNECTORS. There has to be a plug-in connector
for the battery cable. I should not need a soldering iron to hook it up.
So fresh batteries are always available for your old phone AND it is easy
to replace.
On 12/21/2022 11:21 PM, nospam wrote:
the reality is that if that had happened, there would have been quite
the outcry.
What happened was that millions of iPhones outlasted their batteries.
The solution was to replace the batteries (at customer expense).
If you claim that it didn't happen, then your statements are absurd.
On Dec 21, 2022, nospam wrote
(in article<news:211220222119446954%[email protected]d>):
you didn't say when you replaced it. in 2019, it would have been ~3
years old, which is on the shorter side of typical but not unusual for
it to need replacement.
it's now six years old and no longer supported with ios 16.
It's obvious the iPhone hardware outlasts the iPhone battery.
What's not obvious is why you said otherwise.
Hemidactylus is correct when he said it's a big load of crap from you when you said the battery outlasts the iPhone hardware and therefore you didn't need to replace it.
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
On 2022-12-22, *Hemidactylus* <[email protected]d> wrote:
I had the battery changed in 2019 just before the pandemic.
...and your device was released in 2016. You got three years out of a battery, then replaced it and continued using your device! Oh my! : D
nobody said anything about buying a new phone every year.
a 7+ is six years old. very few people still use phones that old.
replacing a battery is certainly an option but most people will choose
a new phone.
In article <tnvsrm$4ogt$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else
on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific version, especially with hardware.
The only country trying to implement law outside its territory are the USA.
false. the usa is not trying to do anything of the sort.
What's next? Who will
they pick on next? As far as I'm concerned, this is crap, and there's
more to it than what meets the eye. Most likely a competitor urging
this somewhere along the line hoping it hurts them. It's just
government picking the winners and losers and has nothing to do with
what they actually claim.
What's next? Who will
they pick on next? As far as I'm concerned, this is crap, and there's
more to it than what meets the eye. Most likely a competitor urging
this somewhere along the line hoping it hurts them. It's just
government picking the winners and losers and has nothing to do with
what they actually claim.
On 21-12-2022 18:21 nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
- which then helps to nudge the consumer to
choose between complete loss of their phone for the time it takes to
replace the very expensive battery or buying a new Apple iPhone instead.
false, and the time it takes to replace it is a couple of minutes if
done by the user.
How long does iFixit say it takes even for an expert to replace the latest iPhone battery and what special tools and expertise does it take?
Before you answer that easy question, read this first.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/32343/apple-is-locking-batteries-to-iphones-now Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair
"It's not a bug; it's a feature Apple wants."
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast their batteries.
The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
Correct me if I am wrong here. If I want to replace my iPhone 7 battery from 2016, are iPhone 7 batteries still being made? Or am I replacing it with a 3 (or more) year old battery?
Standard phone battery sizes and shapes - where ALL phones use one of these batteries - would go a long way to make this idea practical. We need the equivalent of AA, AAA, C and D (for example) batteries for phones. Same sizes and SAME FRIGGIN CONNECTORS. There has to be a plug-in connector
for the battery cable. I should not need a soldering iron to hook it up.
In article <to10be$59n5$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
wrote:
The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
there's definitely more to that story.
why is the irs claiming you owe them money if you've never earned
anything in the usa? and even if you have, less than a certain amount
is exempt.
In article <to10be$59n5$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
wrote:
The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
there's definitely more to that story.
why is the irs claiming you owe them money if you've never earned
anything in the usa? and even if you have, less than a certain amount
is exempt.
The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
there's definitely more to that story.
why is the irs claiming you owe them money if you've never earned
anything in the usa? and even if you have, less than a certain amount
is exempt.
I think if you are a US citizen living abroad, you still have to file an
IRS return and the deal is that any US tax due over and above what you
have already paid in other countries will be demanded.
In article <to1gkg$1c3j6$[email protected]>, Wilf <[email protected]>
wrote:
The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
there's definitely more to that story.
why is the irs claiming you owe them money if you've never earned
anything in the usa? and even if you have, less than a certain amount
is exempt.
I think if you are a US citizen living abroad, you still have to file an
IRS return and the deal is that any US tax due over and above what you
have already paid in other countries will be demanded.
i don't think he is a us citizen.
On 22/12/2022 at 11:20, nospam wrote:
In article <to10be$59n5$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
wrote:
The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
there's definitely more to that story.
why is the irs claiming you owe them money if you've never earned
anything in the usa? and even if you have, less than a certain amount
is exempt.
I think if you are a US citizen living abroad, you still have to file an
IRS return and the deal is that any US tax due over and above what you
have already paid in other countries will be demanded.
In article <to10o3$59n5$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
wrote:
a 7+ is six years old. very few people still use phones that old.
More every day.
nope. it's less every day, as people upgrade their old phones.
Am 22.12.22 um 12:56 schrieb Wilf:
On 22/12/2022 at 11:20, nospam wrote:
In article <to10be$59n5$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
wrote:
The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
there's definitely more to that story.
why is the irs claiming you owe them money if you've never earned
anything in the usa? and even if you have, less than a certain amount
is exempt.
I think if you are a US citizen living abroad, you still have to file an
IRS return and the deal is that any US tax due over and above what you
have already paid in other countries will be demanded.
Correct but unlawful in an international context.
On 22/12/2022 at 12:48, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Correct but unlawful in an international context.
People do seem to accept that, in order to keep their US citizenship,
though.
Am 22.12.22 um 14:12 schrieb Wilf:
On 22/12/2022 at 12:48, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Correct but unlawful in an international context.
People do seem to accept that, in order to keep their US citizenship,
though.
To get rid of it US-Citizens have to pay upfront 30% of their total net wealth. The US are imperialistic.
As a Swiss I totally refuse to give the US any data or money. I'm even
not obliged to tell them what I earn and what I own.
The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
there's definitely more to that story.
You are right. The US are imperialistic.
why is the irs claiming you owe them money if you've never earned
anything in the usa? and even if you have, less than a certain amount
is exempt.
Simply because my wife is American. No other country is so arrogant.
Quite right, especially if you are not a US citizen why would you?
Without standard phone batteries (and without the ability to maintain water resistance), this “easily replaceable battery” dream is not going to work.
Apple - and all other companies that sell phones - need to tell the EU to piss off.
Am 22.12.22 um 16:19 schrieb Bob Campbell:
Without standard phone batteries (and without the ability to maintain water >> resistance), this “easily replaceable battery” dream is not going to work.
Apple - and all other companies that sell phones - need to tell the EU to >> piss off.
You are a stupid Troll and you have no clue how such processes work.
The impementation regulation will take care of that. It will force the manufacturers to ensure a sufficient supply one way or the other.
while that might sound nice, it would greatly limit the design
constrains.
phones would be thicker and heavier, with shorter run time and less reliability. water resistance would be extremely rare and add even more
bulk and not be as effective.
users have voted with their wallet that they do not want that tradeoff.
while that might sound nice, it would greatly limit the design
constrains.
phones would be thicker and heavier, with shorter run time and less reliability. water resistance would be extremely rare and add even more bulk and not be as effective.
users have voted with their wallet that they do not want that tradeoff.
I only raised this point because every other common consumer device that needs batteries uses standard batteries. Flashlights, radios, TV remotes, car remotes, watches (not �smart� watches), clocks, Christmas lights that
you wear around your neck, UPS computer backups, smoke detectors, electric scooters, wheelchairs, etc.
None have custom batteries. Only phones and laptops have custom batteries.
Without standard phone batteries (and without the ability to maintain water resistance), this �easily replaceable battery� dream is not going to work.
Apple - and all other companies that sell phones - need to tell the EU to piss off.
This is another �we are from the Government and we are here to help� situation. Phones are not currently broken and do not need a �fix� from a bunch of politician dipshits who know nothing about running a business.
In article <to1jkd$5f2s$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
wrote:
Simply because my wife is American. No other country is so arrogant.
no, there's more to the story than just that.
Am 22.12.22 um 06:43 schrieb sticks:
What's next? Who will
they pick on next? As far as I'm concerned, this is crap, and there's
more to it than what meets the eye. Most likely a competitor urging
this somewhere along the line hoping it hurts them. It's just
government picking the winners and losers and has nothing to do with
what they actually claim.
Europe will never let American private and commercial companies decide
what is good for the *consumers in Europe in the longterm*.
Short term profit orientation will kill American companies in all
industries.
In article <to1k12$5f2t$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
wrote:
Obviously you have difficulty to read and understand statistics.
You lack any credibility.
ad hominem.
On 12/22/2022 1:45 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Europe will never let American private and commercial companies decide
what is good for the *consumers in Europe in the longterm*.
Yeah, we know. That right belongs to the corrupt politicians of the EU
and is supported by sheep like fools who actually ARE too dumb to self
govern themselves.
Short term profit orientation will kill American companies in all
industries.
And when they cease to be interested in profit, it is no longer called a company. It's called Government.
The average age of the smartphone-population is increasing
rapidly.
Everybody knows this fact but you are the only one trying to
claim the opposite: *Zero credibility*.
In article <to12f6$1aj7k$[email protected]>, Wilf <[email protected]>
wrote:
Before you answer that easy question, read this first.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/32343/apple-is-locking-batteries-to-iphones-now >>> Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair
"It's not a bug; it's a feature Apple wants."
I notice that nospam hasn't yet responded to your point.
there's no point in bothering. he doesn't understand what he linked and
he's trolling.
since you asked, apple is *not* locking iphone batteries. what they're
doing is checking for a genuine apple battery to guarantee the accuracy
of battery health. if they can't guarantee the health data is accurate,
then it's not shown because showing incorrect data to the user is worse
than no data. that's the *only* difference. everything else works
normally.
third party battery makers often lie and overstate battery health
because it makes their batteries look better than they actually are.
some even go so far as to lie about the actual capacity.
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast their
batteries.
that is very much false.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for android.
apps that people want to use require hardware in newer phones and
features in newer system versions. this is mainly why people replace
their phone.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies and require
newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte
support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that cannot make
or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced.
We've always had a million different electrical things that
manufacturers have had built their own special way and people have
always had the choice on buying them or not. Just look at all the
different setups in computer hardware, for example. Of course it would
be easier if there was a one size fits all for the consumer, but then
our choices would also be limited by the regulation. I guess it's only
me, but it really bothers me that private businesses can be told how
they have to build things by the powers that be. What's next? Who will
they pick on next? As far as I'm concerned, this is crap, and there's
more to it than what meets the eye. Most likely a competitor urging
this somewhere along the line hoping it hurts them. It's just
government picking the winners and losers and has nothing to do with
what they actually claim. It sounds good, but it has nothing to do with
why they are doing it.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+14+Pro+Max+Battery+Replacement/153006
I predict nospam will think this is a bad idea...
-----------
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone’s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European legal requirement – this one about battery replacement.
A proposed new law would require electronics companies like Apple to
ensure that consumers are “easily” able to remove and replace batteries themselves …
https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/21/battery-replacement/
I was trained as an electronic technician in the USAF and have four
decades of experience, but I don't think I would try that on my own
phone without first watching someone else do it successfully. Just
dealing with the adhesive inside the phone and all the specialized
connectors is enough to give me pause. It certainly isn't as simple as loosening a few screws, popping off the back, and exchanging the
battery as nospam implies.
What seems to be the case is the EU doesn't like what Apple considers its standard business practices in terms of making it as hard as Apple can possibly make it for the consumer to easily replace their own battery.
The fewer batteries consumers replace on their own the more money Apple
makes which is literally the one & only thing Apple has ever cared about.
Am 21.12.22 um 23:06 schrieb nospam:
In article <tnvsrm$4ogt$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else >>> on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific
version, especially with hardware.
The opposite is correct.
The only country trying to implement law outside its territory are the USA. >>false. the usa is not trying to do anything of the sort.
Certainly it does: The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
On 12/22/2022 2:18 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 21.12.22 um 23:06 schrieb nospam:if you live in US and have foreign income then first taxed at source and
In article <tnvsrm$4ogt$[email protected]>, Joerg Lorenz <[email protected]>
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else >>>> on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific
version, especially with hardware.
The opposite is correct.
The only country trying to implement law outside its territory are the USA.
false. the usa is not trying to do anything of the sort.
Certainly it does: The IRS thinks we owe them money from my wife and
myself based on US-law despite neither my wife nor me ever earned one
single Dollar in the USA.
then in US with credit given for foreign tax paid.
agreed, especially for those who are trying to legislate outside of
their jurisdiction.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+14+Pro+Max+Battery+Replacement/153006
I was trained as an electronic technician in the USAF and have four
decades of experience, but I don't think I would try that on my own
phone without first watching someone else do it successfully. Just
dealing with the adhesive inside the phone and all the specialized
connectors is enough to give me pause. It certainly isn't as simple as loosening a few screws, popping off the back, and exchanging the
battery as nospam implies.
Almost nobody except an actual expert would even think of attempting this.
Almost nobody except an actual expert would even think of attempting this.
i know kids as young as 10 years old who do it for their relatives.
On 22-12-2022 17:07 badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+14+Pro+Max+Battery+Replacement/153006 >>I was trained as an electronic technician in the USAF and have four
decades of experience, but I don't think I would try that on my own
phone without first watching someone else do it successfully. Just
dealing with the adhesive inside the phone and all the specialized
connectors is enough to give me pause. It certainly isn't as simple as
loosening a few screws, popping off the back, and exchanging the
battery as nospam implies.
Almost nobody except an actual expert would even think of attempting this. Where does nospam get his claim that it's a screwdriver & a few minutes?
Even if you do it yourself, because of Apple's locking, the result will
never be the same as new even when you use the official Apple battery
because you don't have the special software reset tools Apple requires.
Why did nospam lie?
Or, if he didn't lie, why then can't he back up his own claims?
Do you believe him when he makes those outrageous claims?
mike <[email protected]d> wrote:
...
I like nospam, but I�ve learned to be skeptical of much of his arguments.
The mere fact that he won�t answer you is quite telling.
Almost nobody except an actual expert would even think of attempting this.
i know kids as young as 10 years old who do it for their relatives.
How do those ten year old children manage to reset the otherwise permanent battery warning Apple has inserted (even for Apple batteries which are replaced by people who don't have the specialized software reset tools)?
In article <[email protected]>, Bob
Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
This is another ³we are from the Government and we are here to help²
situation. Phones are not currently broken and do not need a ³fix² from a >> bunch of politician dipshits who know nothing about running a business.
agreed, especially for those who are trying to legislate outside of
their jurisdiction.
The fewer batteries consumers replace on their own the more money Apple
makes which is literally the one & only thing Apple has ever cared about.
rubbish. battery replacements are not even a round-off error on apple's balance sheet.
In article <news:211220221706184616%[email protected]d>, nospam <[email protected]d> says...
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody
else
on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific
version, especially with hardware.
Smartphone companies make regional phone models all the time.
On 21/12/2022 17:6, nospam wrote:
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybodythey know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific
else
on this planet is free to do their own things.
version, especially with hardware.
Are you saying there are not plenty of phone manufacturers who make
location specific phone models that are different from that in the USA?
In other words, you lied about almost everything you claimed in that every time I asked you to back up your words, your lies became more outrageous.
Almost nobody except an actual expert would even think of attempting this. >>>i know kids as young as 10 years old who do it for their relatives.
How do those ten year old children manage to reset the otherwise permanent >> battery warning Apple has inserted (even for Apple batteries which are
replaced by people who don't have the specialized software reset tools)?
as i said before, that's not required.
the *only* difference is battery health is not reported because its
accuracy cannot be guaranteed.
everything else works normally, as expected.
you haven't any clue how things actually work.
In article <to2hgc$64j3$[email protected]>, mike <[email protected]d>
wrote:
In other words, you lied about almost everything you claimed in that every >> time I asked you to back up your words, your lies became more outrageous.
once again, you're cornered and resort to ad hominem attacks.
In fairness, if battery health is no longer reported, how could anyone
be certain that something else wasn't working correctly as well?
In fairness, if battery health is no longer reported, how could anyone
be certain that something else wasn't working correctly as well?
because everything else works normally, as expected. it holds a charge
and lasts a day or two, just as it did before.
the problem is that some third party batteries report inflated numbers
for battery health. apple can only guarantee the accuracy of their own batteries.
On 23-12-2022 04:21 nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
In fairness, if battery health is no longer reported, how could
anyone be certain that something else wasn't working correctly
as well?
because everything else works normally, as expected. it holds a
charge
and lasts a day or two, just as it did before.
the problem is that some third party batteries report inflated
numbers
for battery health. apple can only guarantee the accuracy of
their own
batteries.
Nospam is lying to you, of course.
Even if those ten year old children used 100% Apple batteries,
they'd still
need far more than those few minutes & a screwdriver to do the job
right.
They'd need special Apple software to reset the battery locks Apple
added.
These constantly increasing lies by nospam become more & more
ridiculously
outrageous as nospam flounders deeper into his own web of audacious
lies.
On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast their
batteries.
that is very much false.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for android.
apps that people want to use require
hardware in newer phones and features in newer system versions. this is mainly why people replace their phone.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies and require
newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte
support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that cannot make
or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced.
On 22/12/2022 at 21:50, nospam wrote:
In article <to2hgc$64j3$[email protected]>, mike <[email protected]d>
wrote:
In other words, you lied about almost everything you claimed in thatonce again, you're cornered and resort to ad hominem attacks.
every
time I asked you to back up your words, your lies became more
outrageous.
In fairness, if battery health is no longer reported, how could anyone
be certain that something else wasn't working correctly as well?
Even if those ten year old children used 100% Apple batteries, they'd still need far more than those few minutes & a screwdriver to do the job right.
They'd need special Apple software to reset the battery locks Apple added.
On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlastthat is very much false.
their batteries.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for android.
So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a useful device. Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no longer connect
to any cellular network*, it can still be used as basically an iPod
Touch.
* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network
technology,
so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use require
Messages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things
actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply because
they want the latest version. They don't actually need any of the
supposed new features or gimmicks.
hardware in newer phones and features in newer system versions. this is
mainly why people replace their phone.
Wrong. That's mainly why idiots replace their still usable devices.
They also replace it simply because they unnecessarily want the latest
toy on the block.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies and require
newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte
support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that cannot make
or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced.
Yet Apple sold millions of such devices ... they were called iPod Touch.
Extremely few people use their mobile phone as an actual *phone*,
but instead use it as a glorified pager,
which doesn't actually need new technology like 5G.
Companies keep upgrading everything to make fools keep buying a new
device theyr don't really need
- that's how they keep making money!
None of which changes the *FACT* that the device itself still actually works, and will remain so long after the original battery is dead, via
either a battery replacement or making it a mains-powered desk device
(e.g. as a bedside clock / radio).
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast their
batteries.
that is very much false.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for android.
So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a useful device.
Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no longer connect
to any cellular network*, it can still be used as basically an iPod
Touch.
* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network technology,
so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use require
Messages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things
actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply
because they want the latest version. They don't actually need any of
the supposed new features or gimmicks.
hardware in newer phones and features in newer system versions. this is mainly why people replace their phone.
Wrong. That's mainly why idiots replace their still usable devices.
They also replace it simply because they unnecessarily want the latest
toy on the block.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies and require
newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte
support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that cannot make
or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced.
Yet Apple sold millions of such devices ... they were called iPod
Touch.
Extremely few people use their mobile phone as an actual
*phone*, but instead use it as a glorified pager, which doesn't
actually need new technology like 5G.
Companies keep upgrading
everything to make fools keep buying a new device theyr don't really
need - that's how they keep making money!
None of which changes the *FACT* that the device itself still actually works, and will remain so long after the original battery is dead, via
either a battery replacement or making it a mains-powered desk device
(e.g. as a bedside clock / radio).
Am 22.12.22 um 03:08 schrieb Jolly Roger:
On 2022-12-22, *Hemidactylus* <[email protected]d> wrote:
I had the battery changed in 2019 just before the pandemic.
...and your device was released in 2016. You got three years out of a
battery, then replaced it and continued using your device! Oh my! : D
Lousy performance ... I must admit.
On Dec 21, 2022, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
I had my 7+ battery replaced because I witnessed the reduction in
charging having an effect in how long before the next one.
NEWSFLASH: Batteries have finite lifespans and eventually need to be
replaced.
What nospam was saying was the batteries outlast the iPhone hardware.
On Dec 23, 2022, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
What nospam was saying was the batteries outlast the iPhone hardware.
You're lying as usual - he never said that. What he said was most people
upgrade to a newer device before their battery needs to be replaced.
Wrong. You're the one lying. Read it again. This time for comprehension.
All you have to do is go back to read what nospam said on Wed, 21 Dec 2022
in Message-ID: <211220221553322644%[email protected]d>.
In that message, nospam said batteries outlast the iPhone useful life.
"as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales,
largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device."
If that's not untrue enough for you, in that same message, nospam said
"they're also 'easily swapped', it just needs a screwdriver rather than
a fingernail (to pop off the back). in other words, it takes an extra
minute or two."
With misguided statements that counter factual, nospam could easily be Trump's speech writer knowing how deluded nospam is in false proclamations.
What nospam was saying was the batteries outlast the iPhone hardware.
You're lying as usual - he never said that. What he said was most people upgrade to a newer device before their battery needs to be replaced.
On 23-12-2022 04:21 nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
In fairness, if battery health is no longer reported, how could anyone
be certain that something else wasn't working correctly as well?
because everything else works normally, as expected. it holds a charge
and lasts a day or two, just as it did before.
the problem is that some third party batteries report inflated numbers
for battery health. apple can only guarantee the accuracy of their own
batteries.
Nospam is lying to you, of course.
Even if those ten year old children used 100% Apple batteries, they'd still need far more than those few minutes & a screwdriver to do the job right.
They'd need special Apple software to reset the battery locks Apple added.
These constantly increasing lies by nospam become more & more ridiculously outrageous as nospam flounders deeper into his own web of audacious lies.
Wrong. You're the one lying. Read it again. This time for
comprehension.
All you have to do is go back to read what nospam said on Wed, 21 Dec
2022 in Message-ID: <211220221553322644%[email protected]d>.
In that message, nospam said batteries outlast the iPhone useful life.
"as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales,
largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device."
If that's not untrue enough for you, in that same message, nospam said
"they're also 'easily swapped', it just needs a screwdriver rather
than a fingernail (to pop off the back). in other words, it takes an
extra minute or two."
Yeah nospam's comments you highlight are a hot mess. BTW I am posting from
an iPhone 13 though sometimes from a recent iPad (both with 16.2).
Yes, those comments from nospam also raised red flags for me.
Despite
that nospam often has good stuff to contribute when he sticks to actual instructions on how to do something rather than when he defends
anything Apple does.
Jolly Roger is a different story though. He wants to be the edgier
version of nospam but has very little credibility, although I will
admit he provided something useful to me once, which I promptly thanked
him. Maybe if he stopped being so offensive people would listen to him
more.
On Dec 23, 2022, badgolferman wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
Yes, those comments from nospam also raised red flags for me.
Is nospam trolling us for effect with his overly absurd proclamations?
Despite
that nospam often has good stuff to contribute when he sticks to
actual instructions on how to do something rather than when he
defends anything Apple does.
I'm not saying nospam doesn't have good stuff to contribute but I
would like to ask if you think nospam believes his ridiculous
proclamations?
Jolly Roger is a different story though. He wants to be the edgier
version of nospam but has very little credibility, although I will
admit he provided something useful to me once, which I promptly
thanked him. Maybe if he stopped being so offensive people would
listen to him more.
Why didn't Jolly Roger look back in the thread before calling us all
liars?
On Dec 23, 2022, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
What nospam was saying was the batteries outlast the iPhone
hardware.
You're lying as usual - he never said that. What he said was most
people upgrade to a newer device before their battery needs to be
replaced.
Wrong. You're the one lying. Read it again. This time for
comprehension.
All you have to do is go back to read what nospam said on Wed, 21 Dec
2022 in Message-ID: <211220221553322644%[email protected]d>.
In that message, nospam said batteries outlast the iPhone useful life.
"as it turns out, internal batteries have no adverse effect on sales,
largely because the battery outlasts the useful life of the device."
Ron, the most dihoest guy in town.
[1] A reasonably skilled person with a few low cost tools can do the
battery service on, ie, any given iPhone and probably most Android
phones (I haven't looked at one in a long time). But not something a
lot (or even most) people would want to attempt or bother with.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:06:21 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast their >>>> batteries.that is very much false.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for android.
So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a useful
device. Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no longer connect
to any cellular network*, it can still be used as basically an iPod
Touch.
* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network technology, >> so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use require
Messages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things
actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply
because they want the latest version. They don't actually need any of
the supposed new features or gimmicks.
But plenty do find them useful.
hardware in newer phones and features in newer system versions. this is
mainly why people replace their phone.
Wrong. That's mainly why idiots replace their still usable devices.
They also replace it simply because they unnecessarily want the latest
toy on the block.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies and require
newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte
support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that cannot make
or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced.
Yet Apple sold millions of such devices ... they were called iPod Touch.
They don't anymore, they use their phone instead.
Extremely few people use their mobile phone as an actual *phone*,
BULLSHIT. No one I know uses their landline anymore,
they use the mobile phone instead and most don't even
have a landline anymore.
but instead use it as a glorified pager,
More bullshit.
which doesn't actually need new technology like 5G.
But what they do on the phone does.
Companies keep upgrading everything to make fools keep buying a new
device theyr don't really need
But do find useful. That is why mobile phones took off
so spectacularly and why hardly anyone doesn't have
one now, even kids.
- that's how they keep making money!
None of which changes the *FACT* that the device itself still actually
works, and will remain so long after the original battery is dead, via
either a battery replacement or making it a mains-powered desk device
(e.g. as a bedside clock / radio).
But plenty still replace their phone when the new one does
something useful for them. In my case that is the only reason
I get a new phone, the last time for wireless charging which
is much more convenient and before that to get apple pay
which is what I use for almost all transactions.
And the real reason behind the legislation which treats all
manufacturers equally has more important things in mind than cheapish
plastic devices that will last hopefully 5 years.
RonTheGuy wrote:
On Dec 23, 2022, badgolferman wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
Yes, those comments from nospam also raised red flags for me.
Is nospam trolling us for effect with his overly absurd proclamations?
Despite
that nospam often has good stuff to contribute when he sticks to
actual instructions on how to do something rather than when he
defends anything Apple does.
I'm not saying nospam doesn't have good stuff to contribute but I
would like to ask if you think nospam believes his ridiculous
proclamations?
No, I don't. My guess is nospam is trying to deflect or or minimize
the effort required to change a battery.
Jolly Roger is a different story though. He wants to be the edgier
version of nospam but has very little credibility, although I will
admit he provided something useful to me once, which I promptly
thanked him. Maybe if he stopped being so offensive people would
listen to him more.
Why didn't Jolly Roger look back in the thread before calling us all
liars?
Because he was just looking for someone to insult. Surely you know
that's what he does. It's a way to feel superior to others.
He seems knowledgeable, even given that he
only knows about the older iphones he actually owns.
In article <GlopL.185704$[email protected]>, Alan Browne <[email protected]> wrote:
[1] A reasonably skilled person with a few low cost tools can do the
battery service on, ie, any given iPhone and probably most Android
phones (I haven't looked at one in a long time). But not something a
lot (or even most) people would want to attempt or bother with.
yep. as i said, i know kids who do it.
In article <2BppL.24397$[email protected]>, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:
He seems knowledgeable, even given that he
only knows about the older iphones he actually owns.
as an ios app developer, i own a range of phones from the original to
the latest ones. they each run different versions of ios for testing purposes, one of the annoying parts of ios development.
On 2022-12-23 00:38:10 +0000, chop said:
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:06:21 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlastthat is very much false.
their batteries.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for
android.
useful device. Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no longer
connect to any cellular network*, it can still be used as basically an
iPod Touch.
* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network
technology,
so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use requireMessages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things
actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply
because they want the latest version. They don't actually need any of
the supposed new features or gimmicks.
But plenty do find them useful.
Why do so many people always have to read "most" as actually saying
"all"?? :-\
They don't anymore, they use their phone instead.hardware in newer phones and features in newer system versions. thisWrong. That's mainly why idiots replace their still usable devices.
is mainly why people replace their phone.
They also replace it simply because they unnecessarily want the
latest toy on the block.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies and require
newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte
support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that cannot
make
or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced.
Yet Apple sold millions of such devices ... they were called iPod
Touch.
Extremely few people use their mobile phone as an actual *phone*,BULLSHIT. No one I know uses their landline anymore,
they use the mobile phone instead and most don't even
have a landline anymore.
but instead use it as a glorified pager,More bullshit.
Compare how many phone calls you make/receive to the number of TXT
messages.
For most people the messasges far outweeigh the phone calls.
which doesn't actually need new technology like 5G.
But what they do on the phone does.
Companies keep upgrading everything to make fools keep buying a newBut do find useful. That is why mobile phones took off
device theyr don't really need
so spectacularly and why hardly anyone doesn't have
one now, even kids.
- that's how they keep making money!But plenty still replace their phone when the new one does
None of which changes the *FACT* that the device itself still
actually works, and will remain so long after the original battery is
dead, via either a battery replacement or making it a mains-powered
desk device (e.g. as a bedside clock / radio).
something useful for them. In my case that is the only reason
I get a new phone, the last time for wireless charging which
is much more convenient and before that to get apple pay
which is what I use for almost all transactions.
Mobile phones haven't done anything new that's useful in many years.
Manufacturers have basically just been tweaking the camera resolution
and processor speed to con stupid people into buying anothernew toy to replace the one that still works perfectly well.
badgolferman wrote:
RonTheGuy wrote:
On Dec 23, 2022, badgolferman wroteNo, I don't. My guess is nospam is trying to deflect or or minimize
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
Yes, those comments from nospam also raised red flags for me.
Is nospam trolling us for effect with his overly absurd proclamations?
Despite
that nospam often has good stuff to contribute when he sticks to
actual instructions on how to do something rather than when he
defends anything Apple does.
I'm not saying nospam doesn't have good stuff to contribute but I
would like to ask if you think nospam believes his ridiculous
proclamations?
the effort required to change a battery.
He is an apple shill. He seems knowledgeable, even given that he only
knows about the older iphones he actually owns.
He could still be extremely helpful if he wanted to be. But I guess it's
more fun pulling wild shit out of his ass to defend apple in any way possible. A damn shame.
Jolly Roger is a different story though. He wants to be the edgier
version of nospam but has very little credibility, although I will
admit he provided something useful to me once, which I promptly
thanked him. Maybe if he stopped being so offensive people would
listen to him more.
That's just some folk's nature. they can't help it.
Why didn't Jolly Roger look back in the thread before calling us allBecause he was just looking for someone to insult. Surely you know
liars?
that's what he does. It's a way to feel superior to others.
Sometimes, the guilty dog barks loudest. If you constantly lie, you
naturally assume everyone else does.
Again, it's a damn shame.
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 07:38:33 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2022-12-23 00:38:10 +0000, chop said:
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:06:21 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:
Touch.If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast their >>>>>> batteries.that is very much false.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for android. >>>> So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a useful >>>> device. Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no longer connect >>>> to any cellular network*, it can still be used as basically an iPod
* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network technology,
so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use requireMessages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things
actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply
because they want the latest version. They don't actually need any of
the supposed new features or gimmicks.
But plenty do find them useful.
Why do so many people always have to read "most" as actually saying
"all"?? :-\
No one did that.
BULLSHIT. No one I know uses their landline anymore,hardware in newer phones and features in newer system versions. this is >>>>> mainly why people replace their phone.Wrong. That's mainly why idiots replace their still usable devices.
They also replace it simply because they unnecessarily want the latest >>>> toy on the block.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies and require >>>>> newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte
support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that cannot make >>>>> or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced.
Yet Apple sold millions of such devices ... they were called iPod Touch. >>> They don't anymore, they use their phone instead.
Extremely few people use their mobile phone as an actual *phone*,
they use the mobile phone instead and most don't even
have a landline anymore.
but instead use it as a glorified pager,More bullshit.
Compare how many phone calls you make/receive to the number of TXT messages.
FAR more phone calls for most.
For most people the messasges far outweeigh the phone calls.
Bullshit.
which doesn't actually need new technology like 5G.
But what they do on the phone does.
Companies keep upgrading everything to make fools keep buying a newBut do find useful. That is why mobile phones took off
device theyr don't really need
so spectacularly and why hardly anyone doesn't have
one now, even kids.
- that's how they keep making money!But plenty still replace their phone when the new one does
None of which changes the *FACT* that the device itself still actually >>>> works, and will remain so long after the original battery is dead, via >>>> either a battery replacement or making it a mains-powered desk device
(e.g. as a bedside clock / radio).
something useful for them. In my case that is the only reason
I get a new phone, the last time for wireless charging which
is much more convenient and before that to get apple pay
which is what I use for almost all transactions.
Mobile phones haven't done anything new that's useful in many years.
Bullshit with applepay, googlepay, 3G, 4G, 5G, wireless charging,
vastly better cameras, google maps, gps, wifi, bluetooth, email,
replacing PCs and laptops for many, vastly cheaper than a landline,
very secure net banking, zoom etc etc etc.
Manufacturers have basically just been tweaking the camera resolution
It isnt just resolution. The youtube shorts have vastly better
image quality than we used to have before mobile video.
and processor speed to con stupid people into buying another new toy to
replace the one that still works perfectly well.
That perfectly well is just bullshit with the stuff I listed.
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 09:03:34 +1100, Hank Rogers
<[email protected]d> wrote:
badgolferman wrote:
RonTheGuy wrote:
On Dec 23, 2022, badgolferman wrote�No, I don't.� My guess is nospam is trying to deflect or or
(in
article<news:[email protected]>):
Yes, those comments from nospam also raised red flags for me.
Is nospam trolling us for effect with his overly absurd
proclamations?
Despite
that nospam often has good stuff to contribute when he sticks to
actual� instructions on how to do something rather than when he
defends� anything Apple does.
I'm not saying nospam doesn't have good stuff to contribute but I
would like to ask if you think nospam believes his ridiculous
proclamations?
minimize
the effort required to change a battery.
He is an apple shill. He seems knowledgeable, even given that he
only knows about the older iphones he actually owns.
That last is bullshit.
He could still be extremely helpful if he wanted to be. But I
guess it's more fun pulling wild shit out of his ass to defend
apple in any way possible. A damn shame.
Jolly Roger is a different story though.� He wants to be the
edgier
version of nospam but has very little credibility, although I
will
admit he provided something useful to me once, which I promptly
thanked� him.� Maybe if he stopped being so offensive people
would
listen to him� more.
That's just some folk's nature. they can't help it.
Why didn't Jolly Roger look back in the thread before calling�Because he was just looking for someone to insult.� Surely you
us all
liars?
know
that's what he does.� It's a way to feel superior to others.
Sometimes, the guilty dog barks loudest. If you constantly lie,
you naturally assume everyone else does.
Again, it's a damn shame.
On 21/12/2022 17:6, nospam wrote:
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else >>> on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific
version, especially with hardware.
Are you saying there are not plenty of phone manufacturers who make
location specific phone models that are different from that in the USA?
The EU only implements law inside the EU and enforces it. Everybody else >>> on this planet is free to do their own things.
they know full well that companies are not going to make an eu-specific
version, especially with hardware.
Are you saying there are not plenty of phone manufacturers who make location specific phone models that are different from that in the USA?
Apple certainly does this already.
� iPhones sold in China have dual physical SIM slots.
� The iPhone 14 models sold in the U.S. have no physical SIM slots.
� iPhone 14 models sold everywhere except the U.S. and China have one physical SIM slot and one eSIM slot.
� In the past, during the Intel modem episode, iPhones sold to some
users in countries with CDMA networks used a different modem inside the
phone than in countries with no CDMA networks.
� 5G capable iPhones sold in the U.S. support mmWave 5G (other than the SE2022) while 5G capable iPhones sold in other countries do not.
� Different iPhones sold in different countries support different sets
of LTE bands,
On 21-12-2022 20:24 badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone��s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European >> legal requirement �V this one about battery replacement.
Apple's business model is predicated on limiting the choice of the
consumer, always nudging the consumer by limiting device capabilities.
As part of that business model, Apple designs batteries that expire well before the hardware ever will - which then helps to nudge the consumer to choose between complete loss of their phone for the time it takes to
replace the very expensive battery or buying a new Apple iPhone instead.
Rod Speed wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 09:03:34 +1100, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d>
wrote:
badgolferman wrote:That last is bullshit.
RonTheGuy wrote:
On Dec 23, 2022, badgolferman wroteNo, I don't. My guess is nospam is trying to deflect or or minimize
(in
article<news:[email protected]>):
Yes, those comments from nospam also raised red flags for me.
Is nospam trolling us for effect with his overly absurd
proclamations?
Despite
that nospam often has good stuff to contribute when he sticks to
actual instructions on how to do something rather than when he
defends anything Apple does.
I'm not saying nospam doesn't have good stuff to contribute but I
would like to ask if you think nospam believes his ridiculous
proclamations?
the effort required to change a battery.
He is an apple shill. He seems knowledgeable, even given that he only
knows about the older iphones he actually owns.
He could still be extremely helpful if he wanted to be. But I guess
it's more fun pulling wild shit out of his ass to defend apple in any
way possible. A damn shame.
Jolly Roger is a different story though. He wants to be the edgier >>>>>> version of nospam but has very little credibility, although I will >>>>>> admit he provided something useful to me once, which I promptly
thanked him. Maybe if he stopped being so offensive people would >>>>>> listen to him more.
That's just some folk's nature. they can't help it.
Why didn't Jolly Roger look back in the thread before calling us all >>>>> liars?Because he was just looking for someone to insult. Surely you know
that's what he does. It's a way to feel superior to others.
Sometimes, the guilty dog barks loudest. If you constantly lie, you
naturally assume everyone else does.
Again, it's a damn shame.
Woof wooof
On 2022-12-23 22:51:15 +0000, chop said:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 07:38:33 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 2022-12-23 00:38:10 +0000, chop said:No one did that.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:06:21 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast >>>>>>> their batteries.that is very much false.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for
android.
useful device. Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no
longer connect to any cellular network*, it can still be used as
basically an iPod Touch.
* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network
technology,
so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use requireMessages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things
actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply
because they want the latest version. They don't actually need any
of the supposed new features or gimmicks.
But plenty do find them useful.
Why do so many people always have to read "most" as actually saying
"all"?? :-\
I never said "nobody found them useful",
They don't actually need any of the supposed new features or
gimmicks.
yet some fool has to say "plenty do".
They don't actually need any of the supposed new features or
gimmicks.
FAR more phone calls for most.Compare how many phone calls you make/receive to the number of TXTThey don't anymore, they use their phone instead.hardware in newer phones and features in newer system versions.Wrong. That's mainly why idiots replace their still usable devices.
this is mainly why people replace their phone.
They also replace it simply because they unnecessarily want the
latest toy on the block.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies and require >>>>>> newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte >>>>>> support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that cannot >>>>>> make
or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced.
Yet Apple sold millions of such devices ... they were called iPod
Touch.
Extremely few people use their mobile phone as an actual *phone*,BULLSHIT. No one I know uses their landline anymore,
they use the mobile phone instead and most don't even
have a landline anymore.
but instead use it as a glorified pager,More bullshit.
messages.
For most people the messasges far outweeigh the phone calls.Bullshit.
Bullshit with applepay, googlepay, 3G, 4G, 5G, wireless charging,which doesn't actually need new technology like 5G.
But what they do on the phone does.
Companies keep upgrading everything to make fools keep buying a newBut do find useful. That is why mobile phones took off
device theyr don't really need
so spectacularly and why hardly anyone doesn't have
one now, even kids.
- that's how they keep making money!But plenty still replace their phone when the new one does
None of which changes the *FACT* that the device itself still
actually works, and will remain so long after the original battery
is dead, via either a battery replacement or making it a
mains-powered desk device (e.g. as a bedside clock / radio).
something useful for them. In my case that is the only reason
I get a new phone, the last time for wireless charging which
is much more convenient and before that to get apple pay
which is what I use for almost all transactions.
Mobile phones haven't done anything new that's useful in many years.
vastly better cameras, google maps, gps, wifi, bluetooth, email,
replacing PCs and laptops for many, vastly cheaper than a landline,
very secure net banking, zoom etc etc etc.
The residential copper-based landline here in New Zealand was basically
free for local calls.
Similarly the internet connection based landlines (wether that's the
phasing out copper line connections, or the newer Fibre or home 4G/5G)
are also free for all local calls, but you do have to pay an extra NZ$10
per month for the privilege on top of your internet connection fee or a "naked" conneciton (a landline with no internet plan).
Meanwhile, all mobile phone calls cost you x� per minute, although most
plans these days do come with a set monthly amount of minutes, and in
some cases that can be "unlimited" ...
but really you're paying for those included in your monthly plan fee,
whether or not you actually use that amount each month.
Manufacturers have basically just been tweaking the camera resolutionIt isnt just resolution. The youtube shorts have vastly better
image quality than we used to have before mobile video.
and processor speed to con stupid people into buying another new toyThat perfectly well is just bullshit with the stuff I listed.
to replace the one that still works perfectly well.
Maybe in you're tiny brain and for your four geeky friends, but
meanwhile in the real world most of that is unnecessary crap and
gimmickry thet nobody uses.
Just like all the fancy electronic gimmickry on new cars that very few
people bother to use,
and most simply find highly annoying when they can't be turned off /
ignored.
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:11:35 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2022-12-23 22:51:15 +0000, chop said:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 07:38:33 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote: >>>
On 2022-12-23 00:38:10 +0000, chop said:No one did that.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:06:21 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network technology,
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast their >>>>>>>> batteries.that is very much false.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for android. >>>>>> So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a useful >>>>>> device. Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no longer connect >>>>>> to any cellular network*, it can still be used as basically an iPod >>>>>> Touch.
so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use requireMessages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things
actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply
because they want the latest version. They don't actually need any of >>>>>> the supposed new features or gimmicks.
But plenty do find them useful.
Why do so many people always have to read "most" as actually saying
"all"?? :-\
I never said "nobody found them useful",
But you clearly did say
They don't actually need any of the supposed new features or gimmicks.
yet some fool has to say "plenty do".
Because you clearly did say
They don't actually need any of the supposed new features or gimmicks.
FAR more phone calls for most.Compare how many phone calls you make/receive to the number of TXT messages.BULLSHIT. No one I know uses their landline anymore,hardware in newer phones and features in newer system versions. this is >>>>>>> mainly why people replace their phone.Wrong. That's mainly why idiots replace their still usable devices. >>>>>> They also replace it simply because they unnecessarily want the latest >>>>>> toy on the block.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies and require >>>>>>> newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte >>>>>>> support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that cannot make >>>>>>> or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced.
Yet Apple sold millions of such devices ... they were called iPod Touch. >>>>> They don't anymore, they use their phone instead.
Extremely few people use their mobile phone as an actual *phone*,
they use the mobile phone instead and most don't even
have a landline anymore.
but instead use it as a glorified pager,More bullshit.
For most people the messasges far outweeigh the phone calls.Bullshit.
Bullshit with applepay, googlepay, 3G, 4G, 5G, wireless charging,which doesn't actually need new technology like 5G.
But what they do on the phone does.
Companies keep upgrading everything to make fools keep buying a new >>>>>> device theyr don't really needBut do find useful. That is why mobile phones took off
so spectacularly and why hardly anyone doesn't have
one now, even kids.
- that's how they keep making money!But plenty still replace their phone when the new one does
None of which changes the *FACT* that the device itself still actually >>>>>> works, and will remain so long after the original battery is dead, via >>>>>> either a battery replacement or making it a mains-powered desk device >>>>>> (e.g. as a bedside clock / radio).
something useful for them. In my case that is the only reason
I get a new phone, the last time for wireless charging which
is much more convenient and before that to get apple pay
which is what I use for almost all transactions.
Mobile phones haven't done anything new that's useful in many years.
vastly better cameras, google maps, gps, wifi, bluetooth, email,
replacing PCs and laptops for many, vastly cheaper than a landline,
very secure net banking, zoom etc etc etc.
The residential copper-based landline here in New Zealand was basically
free for local calls.
Pity about the line rent and the fact that it doesnt work when you
aren't at home.
Similarly the internet connection based landlines (wether that's the
phasing out copper line connections, or the newer Fibre or home 4G/5G)
are also free for all local calls, but you do have to pay an extra
NZ$10 per month for the privilege on top of your internet connection
fee or a "naked" conneciton (a landline with no internet plan).
Pity about the fact that it doesnt work when you aren't at home.
Meanwhile, all mobile phone calls cost you x� per minute, although most
plans these days do come with a set monthly amount of minutes, and in
some cases that can be "unlimited" ...
Anyone with even half a clue uses a plan that has unlimited calls
and texts and MMSs to any landline or mobile in the country for
just $10 a month and most include any landline or mobile in
most of the world for not much more.
but really you're paying for those included in your monthly plan fee,
whether or not you actually use that amount each month.
Irrelevant if you are only paying $10 a month.
Manufacturers have basically just been tweaking the camera resolutionIt isnt just resolution. The youtube shorts have vastly better
image quality than we used to have before mobile video.
and processor speed to con stupid people into buying another new toy to >>>> replace the one that still works perfectly well.That perfectly well is just bullshit with the stuff I listed.
Maybe in you're tiny brain and for your four geeky friends, but
meanwhile in the real world most of that is unnecessary crap and
gimmickry thet nobody uses.
Its a lie that nobody uses what I listed.
Just like all the fancy electronic gimmickry on new cars that very few
people bother to use,
Another lie with the lack of any need to tune the system
frequently and change the spark plugs more often.
and most simply find highly annoying when they can't be turned off / ignored.
Those with a clue buy a car which can turn off what they don't like.
Tad radical I realise.
I'm not saying nospam doesn't have good stuff to contribute but I would
like to ask if you think nospam believes his ridiculous proclamations?
Highly unlikely that he believes what he posts. Like most trolls, he
posts to get attention and to to provoke a reaction and he never
includes any references or citations.
I'm not saying nospam doesn't have good stuff to contribute but I would
like to ask if you think nospam believes his ridiculous proclamations?
Highly unlikely that he believes what he posts. Like most trolls, he
posts to get attention and to to provoke a reaction and he never
includes any references or citations.
I learned long ago that the key to be taken seriously in forums is to
provide cites and references. It's fine to give an opinion but you
should include "IMO," "IMHO," or "IMVAIO" when you do ("In My Opinion,"
"In My Humble Opinion," and "In My Valued and Informed Opinion").
When nospam said people replace their iPhone battery in a couple of minutes with just a screwdriver, that brought up red flags, but then when nospam
said the batteries outlast the hardware, it was another set of red flags.
There had to be a reason nospam made all those ridiculous statements.
On Dec 24, 2022, sms wrote
(in article<news:to5ofp$1sscr$[email protected]>):
I'm not saying nospam doesn't have good stuff to contribute but I would
like to ask if you think nospam believes his ridiculous proclamations?
Highly unlikely that he believes what he posts. Like most trolls, he
posts to get attention and to to provoke a reaction and he never
includes any references or citations.
It's good to know that nospam doesn't believe what he posts because he
can
post useful information but what he said in this thread was ridiculous.
When nospam said people replace their iPhone battery in a couple of
minutes
with just a screwdriver, that brought up red flags, but then when nospam
said the batteries outlast the hardware, it was another set of red flags.
There had to be a reason nospam made all those ridiculous statements.
I learned long ago that the key to be taken seriously in forums is to
provide cites and references. It's fine to give an opinion but you
should include "IMO," "IMHO," or "IMVAIO" when you do ("In My Opinion,"
"In My Humble Opinion," and "In My Valued and Informed Opinion").
There has to be an underlying reason for all of nospam's ridiculous
claims.
I think the rationale badgolferman gave for why nospam made all those ridiculous statements was probably most on the mark.
Badgolferman suggested nospam wanted to minimize the effort.
Then, when people like badgolferman brought up the red flags in nospam's claims, nospam just doubled down and made increasingly ridiculous claims (like the one about ten year olds doing it in one or two minutes with
just
a screwdriver).
Does nospam know they'd need more than a screwdriver, and more than a
couple of minutes, and very specialized tools to reset the software?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
On 2022-12-24 02:17:11 +0000, chop said:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:11:35 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 2022-12-23 22:51:15 +0000, chop said:But you clearly did say
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 07:38:33 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]>I never said "nobody found them useful",
wrote:
On 2022-12-23 00:38:10 +0000, chop said:No one did that.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:06:21 +1100, Your Name
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a >>>>>>> useful device. Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast >>>>>>>>> their batteries.that is very much false.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for >>>>>>>> android.
longer connect to any cellular network*, it can still be used as >>>>>>> basically an iPod Touch.
* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network >>>>>>> technology,
so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use requireMessages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things >>>>>>> actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply >>>>>>> because they want the latest version. They don't actually need any >>>>>>> of the supposed new features or gimmicks.
But plenty do find them useful.
Why do so many people always have to read "most" as actually saying
"all"?? :-\
Nother moron with zero reading comprehension ability gets added to the killfile. :-\
Because you clearly did sayThey don't actually need any of the supposed new features or
gimmicks.
yet some fool has to say "plenty do".
Pity about the line rent and the fact that it doesnt work when youThey don't actually need any of the supposed new features or
gimmicks.
FAR more phone calls for most.Compare how many phone calls you make/receive to the number of TXTThey don't anymore, they use their phone instead.hardware in newer phones and features in newer system versions. >>>>>>>> this is mainly why people replace their phone.Wrong. That's mainly why idiots replace their still usable devices. >>>>>>> They also replace it simply because they unnecessarily want the
latest toy on the block.
cellular networks are also updated to newer technologies andYet Apple sold millions of such devices ... they were called iPod >>>>>>> Touch.
require
newer phones. early lte phones no longer work due to lack of volte >>>>>>>> support. the first 5g phones also do not work. a phone that
cannot make
or receive calls is not particularly useful and must be replaced. >>>>>>
Extremely few people use their mobile phone as an actual *phone*, >>>>>> BULLSHIT. No one I know uses their landline anymore,they use the mobile phone instead and most don't even
have a landline anymore.
but instead use it as a glorified pager,More bullshit.
messages.
For most people the messasges far outweeigh the phone calls.Bullshit.
Bullshit with applepay, googlepay, 3G, 4G, 5G, wireless charging,which doesn't actually need new technology like 5G.
But what they do on the phone does.
Companies keep upgrading everything to make fools keep buying aBut do find useful. That is why mobile phones took off
new device theyr don't really need
so spectacularly and why hardly anyone doesn't have
one now, even kids.
- that's how they keep making money!But plenty still replace their phone when the new one does
None of which changes the *FACT* that the device itself still
actually works, and will remain so long after the original battery >>>>>>> is dead, via either a battery replacement or making it a
mains-powered desk device (e.g. as a bedside clock / radio).
something useful for them. In my case that is the only reason
I get a new phone, the last time for wireless charging which
is much more convenient and before that to get apple pay
which is what I use for almost all transactions.
Mobile phones haven't done anything new that's useful in many years.
vastly better cameras, google maps, gps, wifi, bluetooth, email,
replacing PCs and laptops for many, vastly cheaper than a landline,
very secure net banking, zoom etc etc etc.
The residential copper-based landline here in New Zealand was
basically free for local calls.
aren't at home.
Similarly the internet connection based landlines (wether that's thePity about the fact that it doesnt work when you aren't at home.
phasing out copper line connections, or the newer Fibre or home 4G/5G)
are also free for all local calls, but you do have to pay an extra
NZ$10 per month for the privilege on top of your internet connection
fee or a "naked" conneciton (a landline with no internet plan).
Meanwhile, all mobile phone calls cost you x� per minute, althoughAnyone with even half a clue uses a plan that has unlimited calls
most plans these days do come with a set monthly amount of minutes,
and in some cases that can be "unlimited" ...
and texts and MMSs to any landline or mobile in the country for
just $10 a month and most include any landline or mobile in
most of the world for not much more.
but really you're paying for those included in your monthly plan fee,Irrelevant if you are only paying $10 a month.
whether or not you actually use that amount each month.
Its a lie that nobody uses what I listed.Maybe in you're tiny brain and for your four geeky friends, butManufacturers have basically just been tweaking the camera resolution >>>> It isnt just resolution. The youtube shorts have vastly betterimage quality than we used to have before mobile video.
and processor speed to con stupid people into buying another new toy >>>>> to replace the one that still works perfectly well.That perfectly well is just bullshit with the stuff I listed.
meanwhile in the real world most of that is unnecessary crap and
gimmickry thet nobody uses.
Just like all the fancy electronic gimmickry on new cars that very fewAnother lie with the lack of any need to tune the system
people bother to use,
frequently and change the spark plugs more often.
and most simply find highly annoying when they can't be turned off /Those with a clue buy a car which can turn off what they don't like.
ignored.
Tad radical I realise.
Apple will send you the tools necessary to properly replace a battery.
On 12/23/2022 7:38 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
<snip>
When nospam said people replace their iPhone battery in a couple of
minutes with just a screwdriver, that brought up red flags, but then
when nospam said the batteries outlast the hardware, it was another
set of red flags.
Apple will send you the tools necessary to properly replace a battery.
Apple will send you the tools necessary to properly replace a battery.
See <https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-service-iphone-repair-kit-hands-on>.
Do those tools reset the software lock iFixit said the new iPhones have?
On Dec 24, 2022, sms wrote
(in article<news:to5ofp$1sscr$[email protected]>):
I'm not saying nospam doesn't have good stuff to contribute but I would
like to ask if you think nospam believes his ridiculous proclamations?
Highly unlikely that he believes what he posts. Like most trolls, he
posts to get attention and to to provoke a reaction and he never
includes any references or citations.
It's good to know that nospam doesn't believe what he posts because he can post useful information but what he said in this thread was ridiculous.
When nospam said people replace their iPhone battery in a couple of minutes with just a screwdriver,
that brought up red flags, but then when nospam
said the batteries outlast the hardware, it was another set of red flags.
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 13:49:02 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2022-12-24 02:17:11 +0000, chop said:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:11:35 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote: >>>
On 2022-12-23 22:51:15 +0000, chop said:But you clearly did say
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 07:38:33 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote:I never said "nobody found them useful",
On 2022-12-23 00:38:10 +0000, chop said:No one did that.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:06:21 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a useful
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will outlast theirthat is very much false.
batteries.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for android.
device. Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no longer connect >>>>>>>> to any cellular network*, it can still be used as basically an iPod >>>>>>>> Touch.
* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network technology,
so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use requireMessages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things >>>>>>>> actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply >>>>>>>> because they want the latest version. They don't actually need any of >>>>>>>> the supposed new features or gimmicks.
But plenty do find them useful.
Why do so many people always have to read "most" as actually saying >>>>>> "all"?? :-\
Nother moron with zero reading comprehension ability gets added to the
killfile. :-\
You never could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.
On Dec 23, 2022, sms wrote
(in article<news:to5st4$20i8r$[email protected]>):
Apple will send you the tools necessary to properly replace a battery.
See
<https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-service-iphone-repair-kit-hands-on>.
Do those tools reset the software lock iFixit said the new iPhones have?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
On 2022-12-24 08:46:05 +0000, farter said:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 13:49:02 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 2022-12-24 02:17:11 +0000, chop said:You never could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:11:35 +1100, Your Name <[email protected]>Nother moron with zero reading comprehension ability gets added to
wrote:
On 2022-12-23 22:51:15 +0000, chop said:But you clearly did say
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 07:38:33 +1100, Your NameI never said "nobody found them useful",
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 2022-12-23 00:38:10 +0000, chop said:No one did that.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:06:21 +1100, Your Name
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/22/2022 11:20 AM, nospam wrote:So?!? The phone doesn't suddenly stop working. It can still be a >>>>>>>>> useful device. Even if it's an "ancient" LTE phone that can no >>>>>>>>> longer connect to any cellular network*, it can still be used as >>>>>>>>> basically an iPod Touch.
If treated with sensible care, *all* mobile devices will >>>>>>>>>>> outlast their batteries.that is very much false.
system updates stop roughly 6-7 years for apple, much less for >>>>>>>>>> android.
* Technically, many third world countrioes still use old network >>>>>>>>> technology,
so the device is still usable as a phone there.
apps that people want to use requireMessages, email, a little web browsing, ... none of those things >>>>>>>>> actually require a new app, let alone a new phone.
As with the device itse;f, most people upgrade their apps simply >>>>>>>>> because they want the latest version. They don't actually need >>>>>>>>> any of the supposed new features or gimmicks.
But plenty do find them useful.
Why do so many people always have to read "most" as actually
saying "all"?? :-\
the killfile. :-\
Oh goody, further proof of moronic trolling. :-\
On Dec 23, 2022, sms wrote
(in article<news:to5st4$20i8r$[email protected]>):
Apple will send you the tools necessary to properly replace a battery.
See
<https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-service-iphone-repair-kit-hands-on>.
Do those tools reset the software lock iFixit said the new iPhones have?
Badgolferman suggested nospam wanted to minimize the effort.
Then, when people like badgolferman brought up the red flags in nospam's claims, nospam just doubled down and made increasingly ridiculous claims (like the one about ten year olds doing it in one or two minutes with just
a screwdriver).
Does nospam know they'd need more than a screwdriver, and more than a
couple of minutes, and very specialized tools to reset the software?
There has to be an underlying reason for all of nospam's ridiculous claims.
On 12/23/2022 7:38 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
<snip>
Badgolferman suggested nospam wanted to minimize the effort.
Then, when people like badgolferman brought up the red flags in nospam's
claims, nospam just doubled down and made increasingly ridiculous claims
(like the one about ten year olds doing it in one or two minutes with just >> a screwdriver).
Does nospam know they'd need more than a screwdriver, and more than a
couple of minutes, and very specialized tools to reset the software?
Ungluing and removing the glass back, to get to the battery is
non-trivial. Authorized repair centers have the equipment to do the
battery replacement operation safely without breaking anything. But if
you're good at repairing things it's not that difficult to remove the
back using a heat source to loosen the adhesive. An iOpener, or similar
tool, is recommended <https://www.ifixit.com/products/iopener>.
Also, remember that Apple locks its batteries to prevent after-market batteries from being used. Even when using a genuine Apple battery there
is a need for specialized software tools: "Apple has begun locking its batteries with software to prevent third-party replacements from
reporting their status properly. The company is apparently activating a feature that it’s previously built into its products. The message
persists, even if you swap in a genuine Apple battery, and it’s an
attempt to shove customers towards using Apple and Apple-authorized
resellers to the exclusion of third-party stores." (see <https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/296387-apple-has-begun-software-locking-iphone-batteries-to-prevent-third-party-replacement>).
Trolls make up dumb claims but never have citations, references. or
sources.
That's why my document...infuriates them�nearly every
item includes a source or citation, so they can't dispute the accuracy.
They feel that someone that has so many iOS and iPadOS devices should
never point out any issues with those devices�sorry, I like my Apple
devices very much, but they are not without some issues and limitations.
Apple will send you the tools necessary to properly replace a battery.
See
<https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-service-iphone-repair-kit-hands-on>.
Do those tools reset the software lock iFixit said the new iPhones have?
"The single most frustrating part of this process, after using Apple's genuine parts and Apple's genuine tools, was that my iPhone didn't
recognize the genuine battery as genuine. "Unknown Part," flashed a
warning. Apparently, that's the case for almost all of these parts:
you're expected to dial up Apple's third-party logistics company after
the repair so they can validate the part for you. That's a process that involves having an entirely separate computer and a Wi-Fi connection
since you have to reboot your iPhone into diagnostics mode and give the company remote control. Which, of course, defeats a bunch of the reasons you'd repair your own device at home!"
Even when using a genuine Apple battery there
is a need for specialized software tools:
Wait, didn't nospam and Jolly Roger say that doesn't happen?
Who should I believe?
On Dec 25, 2022, sms wrote
(in article<news:to861t$2dh6c$[email protected]>):
Apple will send you the tools necessary to properly replace a battery. >>>> See
<https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-service-iphone-repair-kit-hands-on>.
Do those tools reset the software lock iFixit said the new iPhones have?
"The single most frustrating part of this process, after using Apple's
genuine parts and Apple's genuine tools, was that my iPhone didn't
recognize the genuine battery as genuine. "Unknown Part," flashed a
warning. Apparently, that's the case for almost all of these parts:
you're expected to dial up Apple's third-party logistics company after
the repair so they can validate the part for you. That's a process that
involves having an entirely separate computer and a Wi-Fi connection
since you have to reboot your iPhone into diagnostics mode and give the
company remote control. Which, of course, defeats a bunch of the reasons
you'd repair your own device at home!"
Is that "frustrating part" of this process at least free of charge?
And is the time it took to get that "unknown part" software lock (even for Apple batteries) unlocked already included in the "one or two minutes"
nospam swears it takes for even "a ten year old" to replace iPhone
batteries with "just a screwdriver" and nothing else?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
Yes, and your words: "batteries outlast the iPhone hardware" mean
nothing of the sort. What nospam implied is that a typical iPhone
customer purchases a new iPhone before they need to replace the battery. You're intentionally trying to twist his words to mean something
different, because troll. Thanks for playing. You lose.
When they claim "there is no software lock", both Jolly Roger and nospam
are telling you they know more than Apple how to replace iPhone batteries.
And is the time it took to get that "unknown part" software lock (even for Apple batteries) unlocked
And is the time it took to get that "unknown part" software lock (even for >> Apple batteries) unlocked
nothing is locked
As iFixit writes: "This "Service" indicator is the equivalent of a "Check Oil" light that only a Ford dealership can reset, even if you change the
oil yourself."
You either lied about it
Or you didn't know about it.
On Dec 23, 2022, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
Yes, and your words: "batteries outlast the iPhone hardware" mean
nothing of the sort. What nospam implied is that a typical iPhone
customer purchases a new iPhone before they need to replace the battery.
You're intentionally trying to twist his words to mean something
different, because troll. Thanks for playing. You lose.
Why can't you admit you didn't know anything about what nospam said when
you replied that everyone who responded to what nospam wrote was a liar?
In article <toa9vu$882s$[email protected]>, cris
<[email protected]> wrote:
When they claim "there is no software lock", both Jolly Roger and nospam
are telling you they know more than Apple how to replace iPhone batteries.
no, what they're telling you is what apple *actually* said and how it
works, not what you want them to have said.
On Dec 23, 2022, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
Yes, and your words: "batteries outlast the iPhone hardware" mean
nothing of the sort. What nospam implied is that a typical iPhone
customer purchases a new iPhone before they need to replace the
battery. You're intentionally trying to twist his words to mean
something different, because troll. Thanks for playing. You lose.
you didn't know anything about what nospam saidi
Ron, the most ineffective trollboi in town.
RonTheGuy wrote:
On Dec 23, 2022, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
Yes, and your words: "batteries outlast the iPhone hardware" mean
nothing of the sort. What nospam implied is that a typical iPhone
customer purchases a new iPhone before they need to replace the battery. >>> You're intentionally trying to twist his words to mean something
different, because troll. Thanks for playing. You lose.
Why can't you admit you didn't know anything about what nospam said when
you replied that everyone who responded to what nospam wrote was a liar?
Dammit, when are you gonna get it: nospam and jolly are the ONLY
people here who are NOT liars and "trolls". Furthermore, Apple
speaks only to them, and tells them EVERYTHING. They are the
prophets who bring us all truth.
I predict nospam will think this is a bad idea...
-----------
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone’s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European legal requirement – this one about battery replacement.
A proposed new law would require electronics companies like Apple to
ensure that consumers are “easily” able to remove and replace batteries themselves …
https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/21/battery-replacement/
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone�s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European legal requirement � this one about battery replacement.
I don't know about y'all-- but I'm damned tired of governments telling
folks how to live, work, play, manufacture and sell stuff....
however, the car works normally.
what they (and you) fail to mention are the cars which have parts that
need to be authenticated to work properly. backyard mechanics can't do
it without the proper tools, and in some cases, the tools are only sold
to dealers, so they can't do it even if they wanted to and could afford
the tools (and training).
recent cars with digital keys that only the dealer can duplicate is
another example.
You either lied about it
Or you didn't know about it.
or you do not understand what you read.
When they claim "there is no software lock", both Jolly Roger and nospam >>> are telling you they know more than Apple how to replace iPhone batteries. >>no, what they're telling you is what apple *actually* said and how it
works, not what you want them to have said.
I am a believer. Apple only speaketh to nospam and jolly. Then it's
passed down to us peasants.
There is a certain kind of mushroom that grows in cow dung which has psychedelic properties. These are sometimes referred to as entheogensYes, and your words: "batteries outlast the iPhone hardware" mean
nothing of the sort. What nospam implied is that a typical iPhone
customer purchases a new iPhone before they need to replace the battery. >>>> You're intentionally trying to twist his words to mean something
different, because troll. Thanks for playing. You lose.
Why can't you admit you didn't know anything about what nospam said when >>> you replied that everyone who responded to what nospam wrote was a liar? >>>
Dammit, when are you gonna get it: nospam and jolly are the ONLY
people here who are NOT liars and "trolls". Furthermore, Apple
speaks only to them, and tells them EVERYTHING. They are the
prophets who bring us all truth.
because they are consumed for religious visionary purposes. Given how much bullshit we are seeing just on this thread alone, we are apparently in the midst of a local religious practice guided by a couple shamanic spiritual advisors hallucinating that things are not as common sense and a grasp of basic English would lead a sane person to assume.
In article <tocg2e$1uqi$[email protected]>, Wade Garrett
<[email protected]> wrote:
European
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone�s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another
legal requirement this one about battery replacement.
...
I don't know about y'all-- but I'm damned tired of governments telling
folks how to live, work, play, manufacture and sell stuff....
exactly the point.
it's one thing if it's safety related, but that is not the case here.
none of the above has anything to do with safety.
No. It's you who didn't even know this Apple software lock existed,
and then you lied about it, and only now, when you can no longer deny
its existence, you claim everyone else doesn't understand all your
lies.
When Jolly Roger & nospam could no longer deny its existence, that's
when they began their cascade of lies, always ending with the
accusation that it's our fault for not being sympathetic to their
cavalcade of deception.
RonTheGuy wrote:
When Jolly Roger & nospam could no longer deny its existence, that's
when they began their cascade of lies, always ending with the
accusation that it's our fault for not being sympathetic to their
cavalcade of deception.
I'm sure nospam knew about it, my suspicion is he carefully crafted his
words to claim the battery can be replaced by anyone and it will still
work,
purposefully leaving out the software lock feature.
Jolly Roger
was fooled by him too.
No. It's you who didn't even know this Apple software lock existed,
and then you lied about it, and only now, when you can no longer deny
its existence, you claim everyone else doesn't understand all your
lies.
We had this discussion once. Most here cannot admit when they are
wrong.
Jolly Roger
was fooled by him too.
no he wasn't.
On Dec 26, 2022, badgolferman wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
No. It's you who didn't even know this Apple software lock
existed, and then you lied about it, and only now, when you can
no longer deny its existence, you claim everyone else doesn't
understand all your lies.
We had this discussion once. Most here cannot admit when they are
wrong.
I don't expect either nospam or Jolly Roger to admit that they didn't
even know this specialized Apple software existed, let alone that
it's required.
Their ever increasingly absurd lies started when they could no longer
hide their lack of knowledge on how to properly replace the iPhone
battery.
When called out on their lack of knowledge, then their insults began.
Why is this is a typical scenario when dealing with Jolly Roger &
nospam? Why can't they admit they didn't even know about the
specialized lock?
On 12/21/22 3:24 PM, badgolferman wrote:
I predict nospam will think this is a bad idea...
-----------
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone’s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European
legal requirement – this one about battery replacement.
A proposed new law would require electronics companies like Apple to
ensure that consumers are “easily” able to remove and replace batteries >> themselves …
https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/21/battery-replacement/
I don't know about y'all-- but I'm damned tired of governments telling
folks how to live, work, play, manufacture and sell stuff....
On Dec 26, 2022, nospam wrote
(in article<news:261220221331243399%[email protected]d>):
Jolly Roger was fooled by him too.
no he wasn't.
Jolly Roger was fooled by nospam, but nobody else was.
What happened was neither Jolly Roger or nospam knew about the
software lock requirement and then when called on it, they began to
lie about it.
After they were called out on their increasingly absurd lies, they
then moved on to insulting anyone who pointed to valid articles about
the lock.
When their increasing insults didn't stop people from pointing to
articles proving they didn't understand how the software lock works on genuine Apple batteries, they blamed everyone else for not believing
their deceptions.
Why does this absurd scenario always happen with Jolly Roger & nospam?
Ron, the thickest brick in town.
In article <[email protected]>,
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
RonTheGuy wrote:
When Jolly Roger & nospam could no longer deny its existence, that's
when they began their cascade of lies, always ending with the
accusation that it's our fault for not being sympathetic to their
cavalcade of deception.
I'm sure nospam knew about it, my suspicion is he carefully crafted
his words to claim the battery can be replaced by anyone and it will
still work,
there is no 'carefully crafting of words'. the fact is that anyone can replace the battery and it will work as expected.
replacement batteries are often sold with the necessary tools, or the
tools can be bought separately.
purposefully leaving out the software lock feature.
there is no software lock, full stop.
there is an authentication step that guarantees that the battery
health data shown to the user is accurate.
if that's not done, then the battery health data will not be displayed because its accuracy is unknown (and often wrong).
everything else works as expected. the *only* difference is battery
health data.
do you really want incorrect battery health data to be displayed?
Jolly Roger was fooled by him too.
no he wasn't.
On 2022-12-26 15:53:50 +0000, Wade Garrett said:
On 12/21/22 3:24 PM, badgolferman wrote:
I predict nospam will think this is a bad idea...
-----------
After mandatory USB-C ports, third-party app stores, access to the
iPhone’s NFC chip, and more, Apple could be facing yet another European >>> legal requirement – this one about battery replacement.
A proposed new law would require electronics companies like Apple to
ensure that consumers are “easily” able to remove and replace batteries >>> themselves …
https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/21/battery-replacement/
I don't know about y'all-- but I'm damned tired of governments telling
folks how to live, work, play, manufacture and sell stuff....
There are morons out there trying to get governments to pay people a "universal payment" ... so every adult gets paid to do nothing. Then
they'll wonder why fewer people bother to work* and why taxes have
suddenly increased. Then of course to pay for that higher tax,
businesses will raise prices, then people will want more wages, so
business raise the prices again ... and the whole thing just continues
to snowball. Want a loaf of bread, that will be $6million please. :-\
Other morons want all public transport to be free, so yet again taxes
will have to rise to pay for it, and add more to the ever growing
snowball laughingly called "inflation".
* Even those that do bother to work are also only going to be doing so
for four days a week (three days from home), while getting 40 weeks
holiday per year because their friend's neighbour's hairdresser's pet
mouse died.
RonTheGuy wrote:
On Dec 26, 2022, badgolferman wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
No. It's you who didn't even know this Apple software lock
existed, and then you lied about it, and only now, when you can
no longer deny its existence, you claim everyone else doesn't
understand all your lies.
We had this discussion once. Most here cannot admit when they are
wrong.
I don't expect either nospam or Jolly Roger to admit that they didn't
even know this specialized Apple software existed, let alone that
it's required.
Their ever increasingly absurd lies started when they could no longer
hide their lack of knowledge on how to properly replace the iPhone
battery.
When called out on their lack of knowledge, then their insults began.
Why is this is a typical scenario when dealing with Jolly Roger &
nospam? Why can't they admit they didn't even know about the
specialized lock?
It's a pride thing.
On Dec 26, 2022, nospam wrote
(in article<news:261220221331243399%[email protected]d>):
Jolly Roger
was fooled by him too.
no he wasn't.
Jolly Roger was fooled by nospam, but nobody else was.
What happened was neither Jolly Roger or nospam knew about the software
lock requirement and then when called on it, they began to lie about it.
After they were called out on their increasingly absurd lies, they then
moved on to insulting anyone who pointed to valid articles about the lock.
When their increasing insults didn't stop people from pointing to articles proving they didn't understand how the software lock works on genuine Apple batteries, they blamed everyone else for not believing their deceptions.
Why does this absurd scenario always happen with Jolly Roger & nospam?
On Dec 26, 2022, badgolferman wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
No. It's you who didn't even know this Apple software lock existed,
and then you lied about it, and only now, when you can no longer deny
its existence, you claim everyone else doesn't understand all your
lies.
We had this discussion once. Most here cannot admit when they are
wrong.
I don't expect either nospam or Jolly Roger to admit that they didn't even know this specialized Apple software existed, let alone that it's required.
Their ever increasingly absurd lies started when they could no longer hide their lack of knowledge on how to properly replace the iPhone battery.
When called out on their lack of knowledge, then their insults began.
Why is this is a typical scenario when dealing with Jolly Roger & nospam?
Anyone who has ever replaced iPhone batteries themselves (there are at
least a dozen of us!!) knows this to be true.
LOL... I literally quoted what nospam *actually* said along with your bullshit dishonest categorization of it, trollboi.
Maybe nospam and Jolly Roger were able to do it themselves like this
guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l30XwBafkI8
On Dec 26, 2022, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
Anyone who has ever replaced iPhone batteries themselves (there
are at least a dozen of us!!) knows this to be true.
Why can't you and nospam admit what everyone else already knows,
which is you had no idea how to properly replace the battery in a
recent iPhone?
It was obvious to everyone that you didn't know anything at all about
the specialized software so your claim that you've done it properly
is a lie.
In article <[email protected]>,
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe nospam and Jolly Roger were able to do it themselves like
this guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l30XwBafkI8
that video confirms what he and i have been saying all along, that the
only difference is battery health is not displayed, and that there is
no 'software lock' to prevent use of third party batteries.
Maybe nospam and Jolly Roger were able to do it themselves like
this guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l30XwBafkI8
that video confirms what he and i have been saying all along, that the
only difference is battery health is not displayed, and that there is
no 'software lock' to prevent use of third party batteries.
No one has said there is a lock preventing the use.
It is the
notification and badge which are annoying.
And the idea of doing it
yourself with all the adhesive, special connectors, and removing
components is ridiculous.
It's been purposely over engineered to
prevent owners from performing routine maintenance,
much like vehicles
today that don't even have oil dipsticks or drain plugs.
In article <[email protected]>,
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe nospam and Jolly Roger were able to do it themselves like
this guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l30XwBafkI8
that video confirms what he and i have been saying all along, that the
only difference is battery health is not displayed, and that there is
no 'software lock' to prevent use of third party batteries.
No one has said there is a lock preventing the use.
several people have.
It is the
notification and badge which are annoying.
yep, but that's easily ignored.
And the idea of doing it
yourself with all the adhesive, special connectors, and removing
components is ridiculous.
the method depicted in the video is indeed ridiculous, however, that's
not the only option.
It's been purposely over engineered to
prevent owners from performing routine maintenance,
nope. it's done because the accuracy cannot be guaranteed.
some third party batteries lie about their status and displaying
incorrect data is not helpful to the user.
further, replacing a battery is not routine maintenance. most people
get a new phone before they need a new battery.
much like vehicles
today that don't even have oil dipsticks or drain plugs.
which vehicles don't have drain plugs, assuming they're not electric
vehicles that do not have oil to drain and therefore don't need drain
plugs?
do these vehicles have lifetime oil that never needs changing? if so,
that's a plus. one less thing to do.
This is the same argument an automobile manufacturer can make about
changing the oil. They can�t guarantee the quality of the oil or that you
are put enough in so they seal up the engine and force you to bring it to them and pay $250 for an oil change.
This argument about substandard batteries could easily be fixed by setting standards for batteries just as there is standards for motor oil. You buy
the aftermarket battery with the correct standard and easily replace the battery and maybe a gasket in your phone. No need to mess with adhesives, special connectors or removing components and hoping to get it all back in correctly.
Despite your arguments everyone else here knows it�s all about increasing revenue by cornering the repair market too.
In article <[email protected]>,
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
It's been purposely over engineered to
prevent owners from performing routine maintenance,
nope. it's done because the accuracy cannot be guaranteed.
some third party batteries lie about their status and displaying
incorrect data is not helpful to the user.
further, replacing a battery is not routine maintenance. most people
get a new phone before they need a new battery.
In article <[email protected]>,
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe nospam and Jolly Roger were able to do it themselves like
this guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l30XwBafkI8
that video confirms what he and i have been saying all along, that the
only difference is battery health is not displayed, and that there is
no 'software lock' to prevent use of third party batteries.
No one has said there is a lock preventing the use.
several people have.
It is the
notification and badge which are annoying.
yep, but that's easily ignored.
And the idea of doing it
yourself with all the adhesive, special connectors, and removing
components is ridiculous.
the method depicted in the video is indeed ridiculous, however, that's
not the only option.
It's been purposely over engineered to
prevent owners from performing routine maintenance,
nope. it's done because the accuracy cannot be guaranteed.
some third party batteries lie about their status and displaying
incorrect data is not helpful to the user.
further, replacing a battery is not routine maintenance. most people
get a new phone before they need a new battery.
much like vehicles
today that don't even have oil dipsticks or drain plugs.
which vehicles don't have drain plugs, assuming they're not electric
vehicles that do not have oil to drain and therefore don't need drain
plugs?
do these vehicles have lifetime oil that never needs changing?
if so,
that's a plus. one less thing to do.
On 2022-12-28 15:02, nospam wrote:
In article <toi5dg$5bf$[email protected]>, badgolferman
<[email protected]> wrote:
It¹s started with the luxury German vehicles like Mercedes and maybe
BMW,
but I¹m sure there are others now. There is no drain plug or
dipstick. You
have to take it to the dealer who snakes a suction tube down the oil
fill
plug and sucks out the oil.
i haven't heard of that, but in some ways, that's easier (other than
needing the proper tool). no more jacking up the vehicle and crawling
under it.
I drive up ramps, remove a small windage cover. Drain the oil / change
the filter. About 20 minutes at a time of my choosing. Drop the used
oil off at the supplier's store when I go by there.
(Also use higher quality filters and oil than any random garage puts in
- even dealers (sorry: stealerships) use bulk oil at the best price bid
and cheap FRAM or other low end filters).
My SO's car is a bit harder (large windage cover - awkward access). 30 minutes.
it also reduces manufacturing costs and increases reliability. no more
stripped threads on the drain plug or the oil pan.
Near 0 (like really near 0) reliability impact and little manufacturing
cost (the hole is part of the casting and machined out and tapped in
about 1 second on any good manufacturing line.)
Stripped threads? Hard to do unless incompetence is in the works. Oil drain plugs need minimal torque - just enough to load the crush washer a bit. Say "click" when it feels tight. More than enough.
Sad news: more and more oil pans are ... plastic.
on the other hand, it's difficult to fully drain all of the oil.
If the vacuum tube can get to the bottom of the oil pan, it gets most of
the oil. Whatever is left is meaningless to the oil quality.
Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the drain
is pointed. So with 'hot' oil. just leave it sit for a bit to maximize
the draining.
It’s started with the luxury German vehicles like Mercedes and maybe BMW, but I’m sure there are others now. There is no drain plug or dipstick. You have to take it to the dealer who snakes a suction tube down the oil fill plug and sucks out the oil. Even automatic transmissions used to have dipsticks and drain plugs but now they have “lifetime” fluid which only lasts the lifetime of the warranty. This must be the model Apple has
decided to follow.
further, replacing a battery is not routine maintenance. most people
get a new phone before they need a new battery.
much like vehicles
today that don't even have oil dipsticks or drain plugs.
which vehicles don't have drain plugs, assuming they're not electric
vehicles that do not have oil to drain and therefore don't need drain
plugs?
do these vehicles have lifetime oil that never needs changing? if so,
that's a plus. one less thing to do.
In article <toi5dg$5bf$[email protected]>, badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
It¹s started with the luxury German vehicles like Mercedes and maybe BMW, >> but I¹m sure there are others now. There is no drain plug or dipstick. You >> have to take it to the dealer who snakes a suction tube down the oil fill
plug and sucks out the oil.
i haven't heard of that, but in some ways, that's easier (other than
needing the proper tool). no more jacking up the vehicle and crawling
under it.
it also reduces manufacturing costs and increases reliability. no more stripped threads on the drain plug or the oil pan.
on the other hand, it's difficult to fully drain all of the oil.
On 2022-12-28 14:28, badgolferman wrote:
It’s started with the luxury German vehicles like Mercedes and maybe BMW, >> but I’m sure there are others now. There is no drain plug or dipstick.
You
have to take it to the dealer who snakes a suction tube down the oil fill
plug and sucks out the oil. Even automatic transmissions used to have
dipsticks and drain plugs but now they have “lifetime” fluid which only >> lasts the lifetime of the warranty. This must be the model Apple has
decided to follow.
Plenty of people stick the finger at Benz/BMW/Audi et al and do their
oil changes themselves despite the business model. These are actually
not difficult things to get around.
On Subarus (and some others) the oil filter is at the top of the engine,
so pumping it out via the dipstick hole, then changing the filter is
easy enough.
Despite your arguments everyone else here knows it's all about increasing revenue by cornering the repair market too.
nospam wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe nospam and Jolly Roger were able to do it themselves like
this guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l30XwBafkI8
that video confirms what he and i have been saying all along, that the
only difference is battery health is not displayed, and that there is
no 'software lock' to prevent use of third party batteries.
No one has said there is a lock preventing the use. It is the
notification and badge which are annoying. And the idea of doing it
yourself with all the adhesive, special connectors, and removing
components is ridiculous. It's been purposely over engineered to
prevent owners from performing routine maintenance, much like vehicles
today that don't even have oil dipsticks or drain plugs.
what is your solution to this problem?
there are always tradeoffs.
what is your solution to this problem?
The solution is the same solution car manufacturers use for replacing the batteries in their cars, the vast majority of which have no programming.
Maybe nospam and Jolly Roger were able to do it themselves like this
guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l30XwBafkI8
The solution is the same solution car manufacturers use for replacing the
batteries in their cars, the vast majority of which have no programming.
two very different things.
lithium ion batteries found in phones and other consumer electronics
require careful charging or they can catch fire.
they have their own
onboard microcontroller to manage that and constantly report status to
the host.
lead acid car batteries do not do that. they are 'dumb'.
On Dec 28, 2022, badgolferman wrote
(in article<news:[email protected]>):
Maybe nospam and Jolly Roger were able to do it themselves like this
guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l30XwBafkI8
That video shows that what everyone else already knew, which is replacing
an iPhone battery properly takes specialized tools such as Apple special software or something like that $130 QianLi Apollo Interstellar One tool https://www.amazon.com/QianLi-apollo1-Apollo-Interstellar-One/dp/B08XZMSMHT
Why can't nospam & Jolly Roger admit they had no idea it was that difficult instead of saying a ten year old can replace the iPhone battery properly in one or two minutes with just a screwdriver but without swapping out the old battery control board or without calling Apple techs to reset the software?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
The solution is the same solution car manufacturers use for replacing the >> batteries in their cars, the vast majority of which have no programming.
two very different things.
The main reason for the special Apple programming is to make it harder.
lithium ion batteries found in phones and other consumer electronics require careful charging or they can catch fire.
There are billions of electronic devices with lithium batteries which do
not require unique Apple programs to reset their battery health status.
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 16:12:41 -0500, nospam wrote:
The solution is the same solution car manufacturers use for replacing the >>> batteries in their cars, the vast majority of which have no programming.
two very different things.
The main reason for the special Apple programming is to make it harder.
lithium ion batteries found in phones and other consumer electronics
require careful charging or they can catch fire.
There are billions of electronic devices with lithium batteries which do
not require unique Apple programs to reset their battery health status.
they have their own
onboard microcontroller to manage that and constantly report status to
the host.
lead acid car batteries do not do that. they are 'dumb'.
Billions of electronic devices have lithium ion batteries that, when replaced, do not require unique Apple software to reset their status.
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 16:12:41 -0500, nospam wrote:
The solution is the same solution car manufacturers use for
replacing the batteries in their cars, the vast majority of which
have no programming.
two very different things.
The main reason for the special Apple programming is to make it
harder.
lithium ion batteries found in phones and other consumer electronics
require careful charging or they can catch fire.
There are billions of electronic devices with lithium batteries which
do not require unique Apple programs to reset their battery health
status.
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 15:02:53 -0500, nospam wrote:
what is your solution to this problem?
The solution is the same solution car manufacturers use for replacing the batteries in their cars, the vast majority of which have no programming.
On 2022-12-28 12:50, Tim+ wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 15:02:53 -0500, nospam wrote:
what is your solution to this problem?
The solution is the same solution car manufacturers use for replacing the
batteries in their cars, the vast majority of which have no programming.
I realize this will come as a shock, but...
CARS
are NOT
SMARTPHONES.
Is it just possible that the needs of each might be different?
On 2022-12-28 12:32, Alan Browne wrote:
Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the
drain is pointed. So with 'hot' oil. just leave it sit for a bit to
maximize the draining.
Faulty assumption there, lad.
Not all oil pans have the deepest part at the rear of the engine.
On 12/28/2022 2:20 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On Subarus (and some others) the oil filter is at the top of the
engine, so pumping it out via the dipstick hole, then changing the
filter is easy enough.
Look at that, they managed to figure out something without the gubmints telling them how they have to do it. Who'd a thunk it.
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 16:53:36 -0500, nospam wrote:
The main reason for the special Apple programming is to make it harder.
making something harder for the sake of being harder is stupid.
It's not stupid.
Apple makes replacing batteries harder to induce people to buy iPhones.
Apple makes a lot more money replacing iPhones than replacing batteries.
for
one, it increases warranty repair costs for the manufacturer.
Apple probably makes a lot more money by people NOT being able to easily replace their batteries than they do on the cost of warranty repairs.
By making it harder to replace batteries, more people buy new phones.
the reason is to guarantee a known quality part with known performance,
versus a counterfeit that can cause problems.
You can believe anything you want to believe even if it's a load of crap.
The harder Apple makes it to replace iPhone batteries, the more some people will be induced to buy a new iPhone rather than go through the expense & trouble to pay to replace their iPhone batteries or to do it themselves.
The main reason for the special Apple programming is to make it harder.
making something harder for the sake of being harder is stupid.
for
one, it increases warranty repair costs for the manufacturer.
the reason is to guarantee a known quality part with known performance, versus a counterfeit that can cause problems.
you can still use knock-off batteries, which will work perfectly fine,
with the sole exception of battery health status because it may not be
(and likely isn't) correct.
lithium ion batteries found in phones and other consumer electronics
require careful charging or they can catch fire.
There are billions of electronic devices with lithium batteries which do
not require unique Apple programs to reset their battery health status.
those billions of devices don't report battery health.
some of them can't even have their batteries replaced at all.
oh, and some cars have very difficult to replace batteries.
On 2022-12-28 15:38, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 12:32, Alan Browne wrote:
Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the
drain is pointed. So with 'hot' oil. just leave it sit for a bit to
maximize the draining.
Faulty assumption there, lad.
Direct observation for my use case, actually. Indeed, as the car would
be pretty much level for a garage "drain" that would be sufficient. In
my case, "more" sufficient.
Bzzzzzzzt.
Not all oil pans have the deepest part at the rear of the engine.
Now you're showing complete ignorance. The drain is at the rear of the
oil pan which is nowhere near the rear of the engine in any way.
On 2022-12-28 16:09, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 15:38, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 12:32, Alan Browne wrote:
Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the
drain is pointed. So with 'hot' oil. just leave it sit for a bit to
maximize the draining.
Faulty assumption there, lad.
Direct observation for my use case, actually. Indeed, as the car
would be pretty much level for a garage "drain" that would be
sufficient. In my case, "more" sufficient.
Direct observation of /A/ car...
...not all cars.
Not all oil pans have the deepest part at the rear of the engine.
Now you're showing complete ignorance. The drain is at the rear of
the oil pan which is nowhere near the rear of the engine in any way.
It may be that way on YOUR oil pan, but your oil pan is not "all oil
pans", or can't you just read?
You DO get that a single counterexample refutes your claim, right?
On 2022-12-28 19:20, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 16:09, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 15:38, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 12:32, Alan Browne wrote:
Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the
drain is pointed. So with 'hot' oil. just leave it sit for a bit
to maximize the draining.
Faulty assumption there, lad.
Direct observation for my use case, actually. Indeed, as the car
would be pretty much level for a garage "drain" that would be
sufficient. In my case, "more" sufficient.
Direct observation of /A/ car...
...not all cars.
... see below Sherlock.
Not all oil pans have the deepest part at the rear of the engine.
Now you're showing complete ignorance. The drain is at the rear of
the oil pan which is nowhere near the rear of the engine in any way.
It may be that way on YOUR oil pan, but your oil pan is not "all oil
pans", or can't you just read?
You DO get that a single counterexample refutes your claim, right?
You do get that prior to all your edits I was talking about my cars.
Right?
The main reason for the special Apple programming is to make it harder.
making something harder for the sake of being harder is stupid.
It's not stupid.
Apple makes replacing batteries harder to induce people to buy iPhones.
On 2022-12-28 15:53, Tim+ wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 16:53:36 -0500, nospam wrote:
The main reason for the special Apple programming is to make it harder. >>>making something harder for the sake of being harder is stupid.
It's not stupid.
Apple makes replacing batteries harder to induce people to buy iPhones.
Why would "harder to replace the battery" be seen as an inducement?
Apple makes a lot more money replacing iPhones than replacing batteries.
Except, they'll replace the battery for you:
1. For free if it degrades by more than 20% in 500 charge cycles.
2. For much, MUCH less than the cost of a new iPhone.
For instance, Apple would charge me $65 to replace the battery if it
held less than 80%... ...which it doesn't.
for one, it increases warranty repair costs for the manufacturer.
Apple probably makes a lot more money by people NOT being able to easily
replace their batteries than they do on the cost of warranty repairs.
By making it harder to replace batteries, more people buy new phones.
Why would someone by a $600-$1,500 phone...
...when a battery replacement would cost at most $129?
Oh...
You think everyone else is a stupid as you are.
the reason is to guarantee a known quality part with known performance,
versus a counterfeit that can cause problems.
You can believe anything you want to believe even if it's a load of crap.
The harder Apple makes it to replace iPhone batteries, the more some people >> will be induced to buy a new iPhone rather than go through the expense &
trouble to pay to replace their iPhone batteries or to do it themselves.
The expense maxes out at $129...
...and it takes less than a day to have it done.
nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
It's been purposely over engineered to
prevent owners from performing routine maintenance,
nope. it's done because the accuracy cannot be guaranteed.
some third party batteries lie about their status and displaying
incorrect data is not helpful to the user.
further, replacing a battery is not routine maintenance. most people
get a new phone before they need a new battery.
This is the same argument an automobile manufacturer can make about
changing the oil. They can’t guarantee the quality of the oil or that you are put enough in so they seal up the engine and force you to bring it to them and pay $250 for an oil change.
This argument about substandard batteries could easily be fixed by
setting
standards for batteries just as there is standards for motor oil.
You buy
the aftermarket battery with the correct standard and easily replace the battery and maybe a gasket in your phone. No need to mess with adhesives, special connectors or removing components and hoping to get it all back
in
correctly.
Despite your arguments everyone else here knows it’s all about increasing revenue by cornering the repair market too.
On 2022-12-28 17:12, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 19:20, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 16:09, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 15:38, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 12:32, Alan Browne wrote:
Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the >>>>>> drain is pointed. So with 'hot' oil. just leave it sit for a bit >>>>>> to maximize the draining.
Faulty assumption there, lad.
Direct observation for my use case, actually. Indeed, as the car
would be pretty much level for a garage "drain" that would be
sufficient. In my case, "more" sufficient.
Direct observation of /A/ car...
...not all cars.
... see below Sherlock.
Not all oil pans have the deepest part at the rear of the engine.
Now you're showing complete ignorance. The drain is at the rear of
the oil pan which is nowhere near the rear of the engine in any way.
It may be that way on YOUR oil pan, but your oil pan is not "all oil
pans", or can't you just read?
You DO get that a single counterexample refutes your claim, right?
You do get that prior to all your edits I was talking about my cars.
Right?
You need to learn to communicate better, then. You said, in a separate paragraph, long after you'd stopped talking about what YOU do for YOUR car:
"Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the
drain is pointed."
But it isn't always an advantage is it, dipshit?
On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 15:27:59 -0600, Hank Rogers wrote:
When they claim "there is no software lock", both Jolly Roger and nospam >>>> are telling you they know more than Apple how to replace iPhone batteries. >>>no, what they're telling you is what apple *actually* said and how it
works, not what you want them to have said.
I am a believer. Apple only speaketh to nospam and jolly. Then it's
passed down to us peasants.
Thou speaketh as a wise man of Bethelehem at our holy hour.
Apple chose thy humble servants - Jolly & nospam - to answer our prayers.
Thy holy prophets lovest thy Divine iPhone.
Sayeth nospam...... Begone, begone.... thou accursed software lock.
Go! Sayeth Jolly....... Lock begone! You accursed doer of wickedness.
And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down
the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters as a result.
Jolly Roger & nospam initially denied the software lock existed, and then they denied it was needed, and when the could no longer hide behind their lack of knowledge about it, they began their cascade of lies about it.
Neither Jolly Roger nor nospam even knew this specialized software existed. Nor its requirement even as genuine Apple batteries are properly inserted.
When Jolly Roger & nospam could no longer deny its existence, that's when they began their cascade of lies, always ending with the accusation that
it's our fault for not being sympathetic to their cavalcade of deception.
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
Don't forget the statement that only dealers can duplicate some digital
car keys, nothing like throwing out a side issue when you've been caught lying! And actually, there are third-party places that have the system
that can duplicate car key fobs.
For NFC digital keys from a phone, the car dealer is not involved.
On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 16:53:36 -0500, nospam wrote:
The main reason for the special Apple programming is to make it harder.
making something harder for the sake of being harder is stupid.
It's not stupid.
Apple makes replacing batteries harder to induce people to buy iPhones.
Apple makes a lot more money replacing iPhones than replacing batteries.
On 2022-12-28 20:59, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 17:12, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 19:20, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 16:09, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 15:38, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 12:32, Alan Browne wrote:
Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where
the drain is pointed. So with 'hot' oil. just leave it sit for a >>>>>>> bit to maximize the draining.
Faulty assumption there, lad.
Direct observation for my use case, actually. Indeed, as the car
would be pretty much level for a garage "drain" that would be
sufficient. In my case, "more" sufficient.
Direct observation of /A/ car...
...not all cars.
... see below Sherlock.
Not all oil pans have the deepest part at the rear of the engine.
Now you're showing complete ignorance. The drain is at the rear of >>>>> the oil pan which is nowhere near the rear of the engine in any way.
It may be that way on YOUR oil pan, but your oil pan is not "all oil
pans", or can't you just read?
You DO get that a single counterexample refutes your claim, right?
You do get that prior to all your edits I was talking about my cars.
Right?
You need to learn to communicate better, then. You said, in a separate
paragraph, long after you'd stopped talking about what YOU do for YOUR
car:
"Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the
drain is pointed."
But it isn't always an advantage is it, dipshit?
All in the context of my car. Get over yourself Karen.
On 12/28/2022 2:20 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On Subarus (and some others) the oil filter is at the top of the
engine, so pumping it out via the dipstick hole, then changing the
filter is easy enough.
Look at that, they managed to figure out something without the gubmints telling them how they have to do it. Who'd a thunk it.
nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
In article <[email protected]>,
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
It's been purposely over engineered to
prevent owners from performing routine maintenance,
nope. it's done because the accuracy cannot be guaranteed.
some third party batteries lie about their status and displaying
incorrect data is not helpful to the user.
further, replacing a battery is not routine maintenance. most people
get a new phone before they need a new battery.
This is the same argument an automobile manufacturer can make about
changing the oil. They can’t guarantee the quality of the oil or that you are put enough in so they seal up the engine and force you to bring it to them and pay $250 for an oil change.
This argument about substandard batteries could easily be fixed by setting standards for batteries just as there is standards for motor oil.
There are a few that are designed so that the old oil is sucked out
using a thing that goes in from above, because that is the way many
dealers etc do an oil change even when there is a drain plug because
that is quicker and easier to do than using the drain plug.
It’s started with the luxury German vehicles like Mercedes and maybe BMW, but I’m sure there are others now. There is no drain plug or dipstick. You have to take it to the dealer who snakes a suction tube down the oil fill plug and sucks out the oil.
Those purchases of new iPhones will very often result in a trade-in of
the phone with the worn out battery. The phone will be refurbished,
including a new battery, then sold on the used market, either directly
by Apple or by a third party,
On 12/28/2022 12:40 PM, sticks wrote:
On 12/28/2022 2:20 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On Subarus (and some others) the oil filter is at the top of the
engine, so pumping it out via the dipstick hole, then changing the
filter is easy enough.
Look at that, they managed to figure out something without the
gubmints telling them how they have to do it. Who'd a thunk it.
Pumping oil out the dipstick hole is a bad idea. It doesn't get the gunk
in the bottom of the oil pan, gunk that flows out when you drain warm
oil out the drain plug. Oil change places, service stations, and dealers
are going to put the car on a lift (or go underneath it in a pit) to
drain the oil so the filter being on the bottom is preferred, and it
doesn't drip oil all over the engine when you remove it.
A set of ramps is cheap enough if you want to change your own own oil.
and used iPhones get good prices (unlike
used Android phones).
Don't forget the statement that only dealers can duplicate some digital
car keys, nothing like throwing out a side issue when you've been caught
lying! And actually, there are third-party places that have the system
that can duplicate car key fobs.
they can duplicate *some* key fobs, but not all of them.
the point remains that there are parts that require dealer involvement.
and used iPhones get good prices (unlike
used Android phones).
Do you have any recent evidence an Android phone of the same price range as an iPhone, when sold at the same age as that iPhone, yields lower prices?
Or are you comparing the typical iPhone against the typical Android which
is something like half to a third of the price from the start point?
And are you taking into account total cost of ownership over the lifetime?
On 12/29/2022 5:55 PM, CDB wrote:
On 12/29/2022 1:20 PM, sms wrote:
�and used iPhones get good prices (unlike used Android phones).
Do you have any recent evidence an Android phone of the same price range as >> an iPhone, when sold at the same age as that iPhone, yields lower prices?
See <https://www.igeeksblog.com/why-iphone-has-better-resale-value-than-android/>.
On 12/29/2022 1:20 PM, sms wrote:
and used iPhones get good prices (unlike used Android phones).
Do you have any recent evidence an Android phone of the same price range as an iPhone, when sold at the same age as that iPhone, yields lower prices?
On 12/29/2022 9:55 PM, CDB wrote:
and used iPhones get good prices (unlike used Android phones).
Do you have any recent evidence an Android phone of the same price
range as
an iPhone, when sold at the same age as that iPhone, yields lower prices?
Or are you comparing the typical iPhone against the typical Android which
is something like half to a third of the price from the start point?
And are you taking into account total cost of ownership over the
lifetime?
An iPhone costs more than Android in every way and you only get some of
that back when you finally cut your losses and decide to sell it away.
I remember seeing somewhere that iPhone whales spend more than ten times
what Android owners do because the iPhone usually costs more initially, the accessories cost more, the apps cost more, and the repairs cost more which
is why many iPhone owners have that expensive warranty, which costs more. With the astronomical cost of iPhone ownership being so high, if an average iPhone doesn't cost more than ten times the average Android, it would be surprising - but lets see what actual current statistics he used to say
that the overall cost of an iPhone is somehow less than that of Android.
On 12/29/2022 9:55 PM, CDB wrote:<snip>
and used iPhones get good prices (unlike used Android phones).
Do you have any recent evidence an Android phone of the same price range as >> an iPhone, when sold at the same age as that iPhone, yields lower prices?
Or are you comparing the typical iPhone against the typical Android which
is something like half to a third of the price from the start point?
And are you taking into account total cost of ownership over the lifetime?
An iPhone costs more than Android in every way
On 12/30/2022 12:43 AM, sms wrote:
On 12/29/2022 5:55 PM, CDB wrote:
On 12/29/2022 1:20 PM, sms wrote:
�and used iPhones get good prices (unlike used Android phones).
Do you have any recent evidence an Android phone of the same price
range as
an iPhone, when sold at the same age as that iPhone, yields lower
prices?
See
<https://www.igeeksblog.com/why-iphone-has-better-resale-value-than-android/>.
That article says resale of a $1000 iPhone is better than a $100 Android. Where are the rest of the enormous costs of iPhone ownership over Android?
In two cases, I've traded in old iPhones for new Android phones
and in both cases gotten more in trade-in value than I paid for the
iPhone when new.
In two cases, I've traded in old iPhones for new Android phones
and in both cases gotten more in trade-in value than I paid for the
iPhone when new.
you didn't buy them new. what you did was buy older models at a steep discount with various promotions.
Where are the rest of the enormous costs of iPhone ownership over Android?
There are none.
Since the replacement cycle time for iPhones is longer, and the trade-in value/resale value for iPhones is higher, the cost of ownership is no
higher for the iPhone.
In fact, if you compare flagship Android phones to flagship iPhones, the iPhone cost of ownership is probably less (using MSRP anyway).
However
flagship Android phones are typically more heavily discounted off of
MSRP than flagship iPhones are not, so that does offset the lower iPhone
cost of ownership.
Android manufacturers often offer very high trade-in values for used
iPhones. In two cases, I've traded in old iPhones for new Android phones
and in both cases gotten more in trade-in value than I paid for the
iPhone when new.
On 12/30/2022 9:12 AM, sms wrote:
Where are the rest of the enormous costs of iPhone ownership over
Android?
There are none.
You are welcome to believe in that fantasy but you have no evidence for it.
The grim reality is total cost of iPhone ownership is enormous over
Android.
There are many total cost of ownership factors you're deceptively ignoring
by cherry picking ONLY resale value.
Since the replacement cycle time for iPhones is longer, and the
trade-in value/resale value for iPhones is higher, the cost of
ownership is no higher for the iPhone.
Each of your cherry picked untrue statements is a fantasy you're welcome to believe but you provided no evidence for your implausible belief that the iPhone hardware lasts longer than does similarly priced Android hardware.
Besides, whenever you compare costs between iPhone and Android you have to break the Android market into multiple chunks, and then you have to
consider that iPhones don't have most of those market segments to compare against.
That means you ALWAYS need to qualify costs by market segment and you have
to accept that iPhones don't even try to complete in many market segments.
Any cherry picked argument that ignores the segments is a specious fantasy.
However flagship Android phones are typically more heavily discounted
off of MSRP than flagship iPhones are not, so that does offset the
lower iPhone cost of ownership.
Stop fantasizing that the iPhone has a lower cost of ownership given how enormously more EVERYTHING costs for an iPhone compared to that of Android.
You're welcome to believe in your own personal fantasies but you have no evidence for making that statement and in fact you're hiding that
everything in the Android market segment costs less than for iPhones.
cost of ownership of comparable
devices, is not very different.
true. similar android phones cost about the same, with a similar cost
of ownership.
LOL, in reality I have _all_ the evidence, and have provided it.
You need to understand that while Android devices do have some
significant advantages over iPhones,
cost of ownership of comparable
devices, is not very different.
You can also learn a lot by reading my document
On 12/30/2022 10:05 AM, nospam wrote:
In two cases, I've traded in old iPhones for new Android phones
and in both cases gotten more in trade-in value than I paid for the
iPhone when new.
you didn't buy them new. what you did was buy older models at a steep
discount with various promotions.
A mint 6s Plus still sells used for $150-200
because it's the last
iPhone that still has a headphone jack it is still in demand.
I may sell
mine since I don't use it anymore
It is also true that I took advantage of the various promotions that the carriers were offering at the time
It's much like cars, you want to consider not only the initial cost, but maintenance, repairs, and longevity. I didn't really plan it, but the
three vehicles we currently own are from the brand with the longest longevity, the second best for depreciation, and the lowest maintenance costs.
sms <[email protected]> wrote:
It's much like cars, you want to consider not only the initial cost, but
maintenance, repairs, and longevity. I didn't really plan it, but the
three vehicles we currently own are from the brand with the longest
longevity, the second best for depreciation, and the lowest maintenance
costs.
Obviously Toyotas.
It's also important to understand that total cost of ownership is
partially based on longevity. You can keep an iPhone going for a lot
longer, if you want to, since Apple provides much longer support for OS updates.
It's much like cars, you want to consider not only the initial cost, but
maintenance, repairs, and longevity. I didn't really plan it, but the
three vehicles we currently own are from the brand with the longest
longevity, the second best for depreciation, and the lowest maintenance
costs.
Obviously Toyotas.
On 12/30/2022 9:33 AM, badgolferman wrote:
sms <[email protected]> wrote:
It's much like cars, you want to consider not only the initial
cost, but maintenance, repairs, and longevity. I didn't really
plan it, but the three vehicles we currently own are from the
brand with the longest longevity, the second best for
depreciation, and the lowest maintenance costs.
Obviously Toyotas.
Correct. I can't stand my wife's Prius Plug-In but it's what she
wanted at the time. Love my 4Runner though.
On 12/30/2022 12:13 PM, sms wrote:
It's also important to understand that total cost of ownership is
partially based on longevity. You can keep an iPhone going for a lot
longer, if you want to, since Apple provides much longer support for
OS updates.
Are you sure about that?
The iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone fully supported which means current Apple support goes back to September 22 2017, which is only five years (so far).
How long do you think Android hotfix support is for a high end Galaxy?
The iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone fully supported which means current Apple support goes back to September 22 2017, which is only five years (so far).
How long do you think Android hotfix support is for a high end Galaxy?
On 2022-12-30 10:48, WaltS48 wrote:
The iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone fully supported which means current Apple support goes back to September 22 2017, which is only five years (so far).
How long do you think Android hotfix support is for a high end Galaxy?
Why don't you tell us?
And "fully supported" is an interesting turn of phrase, isn't it?
On 12/30/2022 5:33 PM, badgolferman wrote:
It's much like cars, you want to consider not only the initial cost,
but maintenance, repairs, and longevity. I didn't really plan it, but
the three vehicles we currently own are from the brand with the
longest longevity, the second best for depreciation, and the lowest
maintenance costs.
Obviously Toyotas.
What he was doing with his statements about iPhone cost of ownership was saying that BECAUSE the resale value of a Lexus is higher than that of a Toyota, that higher resale value alone means the overall cost of ownership
of a Lexus was LOWER than the overall cost of ownership of a Toyota.
Then he tried to tell us that a Lexus lasts longer than a Toyota does.
He is welcome to entertain his own fantasies, but they defy statistics.
However he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison which
is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the launch
price while the iPhone flagships do.
Correct. I can't stand my wife's Prius Plug-In but it's what she
wanted at the time. Love my 4Runner though.
The first Toyota I bought was a used 1994 Camry. It didn't take long
before I came to appreciate the build quality and dependability of that
car. Since then there's always been a Toyota (or Lexus) in my
driveway. They've all been handed down to the kids over the years and finally sold off when they hover around 250K miles. Their resale value
still holds on even then. There have been a few Fords along the way
but the difference in build quality is quite obvious. Having said
that, even Toyotas have cheapened out since thirty years ago, but mechanically they are still more sound than every other brand.
This is much like iPhones I've had over the years compared to Samsungs, Nokias and Motorolas. But to be fair, I've only had one Samsung
smartphone (Galaxy S5). All the rest were prior to the iPhone 4 I
started with.
Samsung recently upped the number of years from three to four:
On 12/30/2022 6:40 PM, badgolferman wrote:
Correct. I can't stand my wife's Prius Plug-In but it's what she
wanted at the time. Love my 4Runner though.
The first Toyota I bought was a used 1994 Camry. It didn't take long
before I came to appreciate the build quality and dependability of that
car. Since then there's always been a Toyota (or Lexus) in my
driveway. They've all been handed down to the kids over the years and
finally sold off when they hover around 250K miles. Their resale value
still holds on even then. There have been a few Fords along the way
but the difference in build quality is quite obvious. Having said
that, even Toyotas have cheapened out since thirty years ago, but
mechanically they are still more sound than every other brand.
This is much like iPhones I've had over the years compared to Samsungs,
Nokias and Motorolas. But to be fair, I've only had one Samsung
smartphone (Galaxy S5). All the rest were prior to the iPhone 4 I
started with.
The problem with his argument is that he is assuming that BECAUSE a Lexus, (which costs more than a Toyota) has higher resale value, then that ALONE must mean that a Lexus has a lower total cost of ownership than a Toyota.
The first Toyota I bought was a used 1994 Camry. It didn't take long
before I came to appreciate the build quality and dependability of that
car.
Since then there's always been a Toyota (or Lexus) in my
driveway. They've all been handed down to the kids over the years and finally sold off when they hover around 250K miles. Their resale value
still holds on even then. There have been a few Fords along the way
but the difference in build quality is quite obvious. Having said
that, even Toyotas have cheapened out since thirty years ago, but mechanically they are still more sound than every other brand.
On 12/30/2022 12:13 PM, sms wrote:
It's also important to understand that total cost of ownership is
partially based on longevity. You can keep an iPhone going for a lot
longer, if you want to, since Apple provides much longer support for
OS updates.
Are you sure about that?
The iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone fully supported which means current Apple support goes back to September 22 2017, which is only five years (so far).
How long do you think Android hotfix support is for a high end Galaxy?
However he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison which
is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the launch
price while the iPhone flagships do.
nope. iphone flagships are frequently discounted with various
promotions.
you claim to have taken advantage of several such discounts.
The problem with his argument is that he is assuming that BECAUSE a Lexus, >> (which costs more than a Toyota) has higher resale value, then that ALONE
must mean that a Lexus has a lower total cost of ownership than a Toyota.
LOL, you keep saying that, but I never said that or implied that.
On 2022-12-29 06:17, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 20:59, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 17:12, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 19:20, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 16:09, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 15:38, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 12:32, Alan Browne wrote:
Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where >>>>>>>> the drain is pointed. So with 'hot' oil. just leave it sit for >>>>>>>> a bit to maximize the draining.
Faulty assumption there, lad.
Direct observation for my use case, actually. Indeed, as the car >>>>>> would be pretty much level for a garage "drain" that would be
sufficient. In my case, "more" sufficient.
Direct observation of /A/ car...
...not all cars.
... see below Sherlock.
Now you're showing complete ignorance. The drain is at the rear
Not all oil pans have the deepest part at the rear of the engine. >>>>>>
of the oil pan which is nowhere near the rear of the engine in any >>>>>> way.
It may be that way on YOUR oil pan, but your oil pan is not "all
oil pans", or can't you just read?
You DO get that a single counterexample refutes your claim, right?
You do get that prior to all your edits I was talking about my cars.
Right?
You need to learn to communicate better, then. You said, in a
separate paragraph, long after you'd stopped talking about what YOU
do for YOUR car:
"Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the
drain is pointed."
But it isn't always an advantage is it, dipshit?
All in the context of my car. Get over yourself Karen.
Only if you read back to ONE paragraph where you mention your car in a
post that is clearly extolling the virtues of using ramps IN GENERAL.
As I already said, you should learn to communicate more clearly.
What he was doing with his statements about iPhone cost of ownership was
saying that BECAUSE the resale value of a Lexus is higher than that of a
Toyota, that higher resale value alone means the overall cost of ownership >> of a Lexus was LOWER than the overall cost of ownership of a Toyota.
Not at all. What you look at is the percentage of value retained. Toyota happens to be second best, after Subaru, in that regard. In fact, no
luxury brands are present in the top 15, see <https://caredge.com/ranks/depreciation>.
Cost of ownership is related to initial cost, but there are many other factors, including cost of maintenance and longevity.
He is welcome to entertain his own fantasies, but they defy statistics.
LOL, I'm the one providing the statistics and the citations. You: nothing!
A flagship iPhone has a similar MSRP to a flagship
Android device, and it's important to compare, no pun intended, apples
to apples, when you're looking at TCO (total cost of ownership).
You can begin your education about cost of ownership by watching this
video: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k741-U2nyM4>.
However he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison which
is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the launch
price while the iPhone flagships do. So the Android cost of ownership is really not higher than the iPhone cost of ownership when you use "street price" versus MSRP.
It was the same way with new cars for a long time. A Honda Accord was
about the same MSRP as a Toyota Camry, and a Honda Civic was about the
same MSRP as a Toyota Corolla, but the Toyota's ended up with a much
lower street price. Toyota seemed to have the same philosophy as
Samsung: run the factory at full capacity and sell as many units as
possible even if it means big discounts.
On 2022-12-30 10:48, WaltS48 wrote:
The iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone fully supported which means current Apple >>> support goes back to September 22 2017, which is only five years (so far). >>>
How long do you think Android hotfix support is for a high end Galaxy?
Why don't you tell us?
because that would destroy his trolling.
The iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone fully supported which means current Apple >> support goes back to September 22 2017, which is only five years (so far). >>
How long do you think Android hotfix support is for a high end Galaxy?
Why don't you tell us?
And "fully supported" is an interesting turn of phrase, isn't it?
Otherwise he is welcome to his own personal unsupported fantasy.
But he shouldn't try to impose his unsupported fantasies on this newsgroup.
Which iPhone older than the iPhone 8 (at five years old) is it that you are claiming Apple says in writing can be updated to iOS 16 (provide the cite)?
On 12/30/2022 9:12 AM, sms wrote:<snip>
There are none.
Where are the rest of the enormous costs of iPhone ownership over Android? >>
You are welcome to believe in that fantasy but you have no evidence for it.
The grim reality is total cost of iPhone ownership is enormous over Android. There are many total cost of ownership factors you're deceptively ignoring
by cherry picking ONLY resale value.
On 12/30/2022 5:33 PM, badgolferman wrote:
It's much like cars, you want to consider not only the initial cost,
but maintenance, repairs, and longevity. I didn't really plan it, but
the three vehicles we currently own are from the brand with the longest
longevity, the second best for depreciation, and the lowest maintenance
costs.
Obviously Toyotas.
What he was doing with his statements about iPhone cost of ownership was saying that BECAUSE the resale value of a Lexus is higher than that of a Toyota, that higher resale value alone means the overall cost of ownership
of a Lexus was LOWER than the overall cost of ownership of a Toyota.
Then he tried to tell us that a Lexus lasts longer than a Toyota does.
He is welcome to entertain his own fantasies, but they defy statistics.
On 12/30/2022 7:15 AM, CDB wrote:
On 12/30/2022 9:12 AM, sms wrote:
You are welcome to believe in that fantasy but you have no evidenceWhere are the rest of the enormous costs of iPhone ownership over
Android?
There are none.
for it.
The grim reality is total cost of iPhone ownership is enormous over
Android.
There are many total cost of ownership factors you're deceptively
ignoring
by cherry picking ONLY resale value.
Each of your cherry picked untrue statements is a fantasy you're
Since the replacement cycle time for iPhones is longer, and the
trade-in value/resale value for iPhones is higher, the cost of
ownership is no higher for the iPhone.
welcome to
believe but you provided no evidence for your implausible belief that
the
iPhone hardware lasts longer than does similarly priced Android
hardware.
It's not that iPhone hardware lasts longer, it's that iPhone owners keep there phones for a longer period of time. Part of the reason is that
Apple provides iOS updates for much longer than Android manufacturers.
Currently, the global replacement cycle time for smart phones is about
43 months <https://www.strategyanalytics.com/images/default-source/strategy-analytics-bio-images/rrff56200f0c386b6e941aff0000f88330.png>
Here is a breakdown of the average mobile life according to the
different brands:
iPhone – four to eight years
Samsung – three to six years
Huawei – two to four years
Xiaomi – two to four years
Oppo – two to three years <https://everphone.com/en/blog/smartphone-lifespan/>
Besides, whenever you compare costs between iPhone and Android you have
to
break the Android market into multiple chunks, and then you have to
consider that iPhones don't have most of those market segments to
compare
against.
That means you ALWAYS need to qualify costs by market segment and you
have
to accept that iPhones don't even try to complete in many market
segments.
LOL, yes, you can legitimately claim that the cost of ownership of a
Samsung A01 is lower than any iPhone. But you really want to compare
flagship to flagship and mid-range to mid-range.
"In the segments where Apple and Android manufacturers both have
products, the cost of ownership of similar level products is not very different."
In fact, there are very high-end smart phone segments where Apple
doesn't have products, as well as very low-end segments where they don't.
Any cherry picked argument that ignores the segments is a specious
fantasy.
However flagship Android phones are typically more heavily discountedStop fantasizing that the iPhone has a lower cost of ownership given
off of MSRP than flagship iPhones are not, so that does offset the
lower iPhone cost of ownership.
how
enormously more EVERYTHING costs for an iPhone compared to that of
Android.
Untrue. Both Android and iPhone use the same USB-C PD chargers. It is
true that high-quality USB-C to Lightning cables cost a little more than high-quality USB-C to USB-C cables, but the cable is included in the box anyway.
Wireless charging is no more expensive for the iPhone than for Android devices.
You're welcome to believe in your own personal fantasies but you have no
evidence for making that statement and in fact you're hiding that
everything in the Android market segment costs less than for iPhones.
LOL, in reality I have _all_ the evidence, and have provided it. You
have provided no references and no citations.
Here are some more things you can read to begin your education:
"Why iPhone has better resale value than Android: <https://www.igeeksblog.com/why-iphone-has-better-resale-value-than-android/>
"No, iPhones Aren’t More Expensive Than Android Phones": <https://www.howtogeek.com/776381/no-iphones-arent-more-expensive-than-android-phones/
However that price comparison leaves out the fact that Samsung
frequently has significant discounts on their flagship phones, plus they offer additional discounts to educators, students, military and
veterans, government workers, and first responders.
"iOS vs Android - Why NOT buying an Apple iPhone will end up costing
you" <https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1250404/Apple-iPhone-iOS-Android-trade-in-values-Samsung-LG-Sony>.
But even all this doesn't tell the whole story. There's also the repair ability issue. If an iPhone battery or screen requires replacement then
you go to an Apple store and they can replace it on the spot, with a
recently manufactured battery. If an Android device battery needs
replacement it's an arduous process that most users won't tolerate,
they'll just get a new phone.
You need to understand that while Android devices do have some
significant advantages over iPhones, cost of ownership of comparable
devices, is not very different.
You can also learn a lot by reading my document
On 12/30/2022 10:24 AM, CDB wrote:
On 12/30/2022 5:33 PM, badgolferman wrote:
What he was doing with his statements about iPhone cost of ownershipIt's much like cars, you want to consider not only the initial cost,
but maintenance, repairs, and longevity. I didn't really plan it, but
the three vehicles we currently own are from the brand with the
longest longevity, the second best for depreciation, and the lowest
maintenance costs.
Obviously Toyotas.
was
saying that BECAUSE the resale value of a Lexus is higher than that of a
Toyota, that higher resale value alone means the overall cost of
ownership
of a Lexus was LOWER than the overall cost of ownership of a Toyota.
Not at all. What you look at is the percentage of value retained. Toyota happens to be second best, after Subaru, in that regard. In fact, no
luxury brands are present in the top 15, see <https://caredge.com/ranks/depreciation>.
Cost of ownership is related to initial cost, but there are many other factors, including cost of maintenance and longevity.
Longest lasting brands: <https://www.businessinsider.com/longest-lasting-car-brands-miles-2020-4>
Maintenance costs: <https://www.crsautomotive.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/3-Car-Maintenance-Costs-After-10-Years-green.jpg>
Then he tried to tell us that a Lexus lasts longer than a Toyota does.
Nope, never said that.
He is welcome to entertain his own fantasies, but they defy statistics.
LOL, I'm the one providing the statistics and the citations. You:
nothing!
However cars≠phones. A flagship iPhone has a similar MSRP to a flagship Android device,
and it's important to compare, no pun intended, apples to apples, when
you're looking at TCO (total cost of ownership).
You can begin your education about cost of ownership by watching this
video: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k741-U2nyM4>.
However he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison which
is not really fair.
The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the launch price while the iPhone flagships do. So the Android cost of ownership is really not higher than
the iPhone cost of ownership when you use "street price" versus MSRP.
It was the same way with new cars for a long time. A Honda Accord was
about the same MSRP as a Toyota Camry, and a Honda Civic was about the
same MSRP as a Toyota Corolla, but the Toyota's ended up with a much
lower street price. Toyota seemed to have the same philosophy as
Samsung: run the factory at full capacity and sell as many units as
possible even if it means big discounts.
In article <ton2km$mtaf$[email protected]>, sms
<[email protected]> wrote:
LOL, in reality I have _all_ the evidence, and have provided it.
you have little to no evidence of the various things you claim, other
than highly cherry-picked links that are easily debunked.
You need to understand that while Android devices do have some
significant advantages over iPhones,
the reverse is also true, and in fact, more so.
cost of ownership of comparable
devices, is not very different.
true. similar android phones cost about the same, with a similar cost
of ownership.
The iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone fully supported which means current Apple >> support goes back to September 22 2017, which is only five years (so far).
the 6s continues to get security updates, as recently as two weeks ago (15.7.2), for a phone that's more than seven years old.
How long do you think Android hotfix support is for a high end Galaxy?
that's only getting security updates, and still less than iphones. for android itself, it's even shorter.
worse, the galaxy isn't the only android phone out there. most android
phones get 2-3 years of support. samsung is trying to catch up with
apple.
Which iPhone older than the iPhone 8 (at five years old) is it that you are >> claiming Apple says in writing can be updated to iOS 16 (provide the cite)?
which 5 year old android phones can run android 13, the current
version, as can an iphone 8?
which 7 year old android phones can run android 12, the previous
version, as can an iphone 6s?
i know math is hard, but that's roughly *three* years of support for
google's flagship android phones, considered by many to be the
reference standard for android.
Samsung recently upped the number of years from three to four: <https://news.samsung.com/us/samsung-galaxy-os-upgrade-one-ui-android-unpacked-2022/>.
On 12/30/2022 1:56 PM, sms wrote:
What he was doing with his statements about iPhone cost of ownership was >>> saying that BECAUSE the resale value of a Lexus is higher than that of a >>> Toyota, that higher resale value alone means the overall cost of ownership >>> of a Lexus was LOWER than the overall cost of ownership of a Toyota.
Not at all. What you look at is the percentage of value retained. Toyota
happens to be second best, after Subaru, in that regard. In fact, no
luxury brands are present in the top 15, see
<https://caredge.com/ranks/depreciation>.
Your argument about iPhones is that BECAUSE they have higher resale value, then that cherry picked statistic ALONE means that they have lower costs.
That can only work if you IGNORE every other measurement of total costs.
If we use the Lexus versus Toyota argument, all the costs of the Lexus were more than that of the Toyota, which means that UNTIL you resell that Lexus, the total cost of ownership is enormously higher than that of the Toyota.
If, when you finally resell that Lexus, you recoup those enormous expenses, then (& only then) would total cost of owning Lexus be less than Toyota.
Cost of ownership is related to initial cost, but there are many other
factors, including cost of maintenance and longevity.
The Lexus costs more (about double) to start with than does the Toyota.
The Lexus therefore has doubled sales tax (which is well spent, but lost). The Lexus therefore has higher maintenance fees (for example, DMV fees).
The Lexus has higher repair costs (based on the lookup cited above).
The Lexus shares parts with Toyota and reliability is the same overall.
The support (warranty) for Lexus is about the same as it is for Toyota.
An extended warranty on the Lexus likely costs more than that of a Toyota. https://survivalfreedom.com/toyota-vs-lexus-differences-to-consider-before-buying/
https://housegrail.com/lexus-vs-toyota/
He is welcome to entertain his own fantasies, but they defy statistics.
LOL, I'm the one providing the statistics and the citations. You: nothing!
What statistics did you provide to show the overall cost of ownership of an iPhone being less than that of an Android? You: nothing!
All you showed was that the average resale value of the (much more
expensive) iPhone was (predictably) more than the average cost of Android.
Your fantasy on total cost of ownership is based on that argument alone?
A flagship iPhone has a similar MSRP to a flagship
Android device, and it's important to compare, no pun intended, apples
to apples, when you're looking at TCO (total cost of ownership).
Then LOOK at the numbers, which if I change LEXUS to iPhone, becomes
The iPhone costs more to start with than does the average Android.
The iPhone therefore has doubled sales tax (which is well spent, but lost). The iPhone has higher accessory fees (for example, Apple chargers/cables). The iPhone has higher repair costs (based on average Android repair costs). The iPhone shares parts with Android and reliability is the same overall.
The support (warranty) for iPhone is about the same as it is for Android.
An extended warranty on the iPhone likely costs more than that of Android.
One by one you can dispute those statements (which were copied from the Lexis/Toyota and changed to iPhone/Android) which are the data you lack.
Which of those arguments are you disputing (because whatever arguments
above you wish to dispute, I can look up the statistics better than you).
You can begin your education about cost of ownership by watching this
video: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k741-U2nyM4>.
Stop denigrating me because YOUR argument is based on your own fantasy.
However he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison which
is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the launch
price while the iPhone flagships do. So the Android cost of ownership is
really not higher than the iPhone cost of ownership when you use "street
price" versus MSRP.
What matters is you made a statement about overall total cost of ownership which was based on a cherry picked higher resale value but in doing so, you ignored every other important measurement inherent in ownership costs.
It was the same way with new cars for a long time. A Honda Accord was
about the same MSRP as a Toyota Camry, and a Honda Civic was about the
same MSRP as a Toyota Corolla, but the Toyota's ended up with a much
lower street price. Toyota seemed to have the same philosophy as
Samsung: run the factory at full capacity and sell as many units as
possible even if it means big discounts.
Your argument is a fantasy unless you can show that the overall costs of
all the measurements you ignored, equal what you earned back in resale.
Then show it. Otherwise it's just your own personal unsupported fantasy.
On 12/30/2022 1:56 PM, sms wrote:
What he was doing with his statements about iPhone cost of ownershipNot at all. What you look at is the percentage of value retained.
was
saying that BECAUSE the resale value of a Lexus is higher than that of
a
Toyota, that higher resale value alone means the overall cost of
ownership
of a Lexus was LOWER than the overall cost of ownership of a Toyota.
Toyota happens to be second best, after Subaru, in that regard. In
fact, no luxury brands are present in the top 15, see
<https://caredge.com/ranks/depreciation>.
Your argument about iPhones is that BECAUSE they have higher resale
value,
then that cherry picked statistic ALONE means that they have lower costs.
That can only work if you IGNORE every other measurement of total costs.
If we use the Lexus versus Toyota argument, all the costs of the Lexus
were
more than that of the Toyota, which means that UNTIL you resell that
Lexus,
the total cost of ownership is enormously higher than that of the Toyota.
If, when you finally resell that Lexus, you recoup those enormous
expenses,
then (& only then) would total cost of owning Lexus be less than Toyota.
Cost of ownership is related to initial cost, but there are many other
factors, including cost of maintenance and longevity.
The Lexus costs more (about double) to start with than does the Toyota.
The Lexus therefore has doubled sales tax (which is well spent, but
lost).
The Lexus therefore has higher maintenance fees (for example, DMV fees).
The Lexus has higher repair costs (based on the lookup cited above).
The Lexus shares parts with Toyota and reliability is the same overall.
The support (warranty) for Lexus is about the same as it is for Toyota.
An extended warranty on the Lexus likely costs more than that of a
Toyota. https://survivalfreedom.com/toyota-vs-lexus-differences-to-consider-before-buying/
https://housegrail.com/lexus-vs-toyota/
He is welcome to entertain his own fantasies, but they defy statistics.LOL, I'm the one providing the statistics and the citations. You:
nothing!
What statistics did you provide to show the overall cost of ownership of
an
iPhone being less than that of an Android? You: nothing!
All you showed was that the average resale value of the (much more
expensive) iPhone was (predictably) more than the average cost of
Android.
Your fantasy on total cost of ownership is based on that argument alone?
A flagship iPhone has a similar MSRP to a flagship Android device, and
it's important to compare, no pun intended, apples to apples, when
you're looking at TCO (total cost of ownership).
Then LOOK at the numbers, which if I change LEXUS to iPhone, becomes
The iPhone costs more to start with than does the average Android.
The iPhone therefore has doubled sales tax (which is well spent, but
lost).
The iPhone has higher accessory fees (for example, Apple
chargers/cables).
The iPhone has higher repair costs (based on average Android repair
costs).
The iPhone shares parts with Android and reliability is the same overall.
The support (warranty) for iPhone is about the same as it is for Android.
An extended warranty on the iPhone likely costs more than that of
Android.
One by one you can dispute those statements (which were copied from the Lexis/Toyota and changed to iPhone/Android) which are the data you lack.
Which of those arguments are you disputing (because whatever arguments
above you wish to dispute, I can look up the statistics better than you).
You can begin your education about cost of ownership by watching this
video: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k741-U2nyM4>.
Stop denigrating me because YOUR argument is based on your own fantasy.
However he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison
which is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the
launch price while the iPhone flagships do. So the Android cost of
ownership is really not higher than the iPhone cost of ownership when
you use "street price" versus MSRP.
What matters is you made a statement about overall total cost of
ownership
which was based on a cherry picked higher resale value but in doing so,
you
ignored every other important measurement inherent in ownership costs.
It was the same way with new cars for a long time. A Honda Accord was
about the same MSRP as a Toyota Camry, and a Honda Civic was about the
same MSRP as a Toyota Corolla, but the Toyota's ended up with a much
lower street price. Toyota seemed to have the same philosophy as
Samsung: run the factory at full capacity and sell as many units as
possible even if it means big discounts.
Your argument is a fantasy unless you can show that the overall costs of
all the measurements you ignored, equal what you earned back in resale.
Then show it. Otherwise it's just your own personal unsupported fantasy.
Samsung recently upped the number of years from three to four:
that's roughly half that of the more than seven years and counting for iphones.
Then show it. Otherwise it's just your own personal unsupported fantasy.
The Lexus is a more prestigious and pleasant vehicle to drive than any
Toyota other than *maybe* an Avalon. That alone bumps up its ownership
value. The same could be said about the iPhone.
His iPhone argument is a fantasy unless he can show overall Android
costs (including costs above he ignored) are greater than what he
lost in resale.
On 12/30/2022 8:39 PM, nospam wrote:
Which iPhone older than the iPhone 8 (at five years old) is it that you
are claiming Apple says in writing can be updated to iOS 16 (provide
the cite)?
which 5 year old android phones can run android 13, the current
version, as can an iphone 8?
Which iPhone older than iPhone 8 is it that you say is updatable to iOS 16? Look it up before you reply because it's clear you don't know the answer.
His iPhone argument is a fantasy unless he can show overall Android
costs (including costs above he ignored) are greater than what he
lost in resale.
This would probably require his spreadsheet to be amended and that is
why he's resisting.
Otherwise he is welcome to his own personal unsupported fantasy.
But he shouldn't try to impose his unsupported fantasies on this newsgroup.
Don't wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and only the pig enjoys it.
Unofficially, there are lots of places *claiming* you can install it on
the iPhone 6s, 7, and 7+.
Whether any actually work or not is
debateable,
It's his own fantasy that depreciation alone is the only cost of
ownership.
I looked at his video https://youtu.be/k741-U2nyM4 which ONLY looked at depreciation and even then it only looked at a SINGLE market segment.
By cherry picking only ONE metric,
that video catered to his fantasy.
The video, like him, ignored ALL OTHER METRICS of total ownership cost!
It's like comparing a car that gets 10 miles to the gallon and has to be repaired every six months to a car that gets 20 miles per gallon and is repaired only once every two years, and then stating after five years of those operating costs that the total cost of ownership of the two cars is exactly the same if the depreciation is the same.
It's not.
Depreciation is only one metric in total cost of ownership.
He's welcome to his incorrect assumptions, but cherry picking ONE metric
and then making broad claims which IGNORE all other metrics, is a
fantasy.
On 12/30/2022 2:05 PM, nospam wrote:
However he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison
which is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the
launch price while the iPhone flagships do.
nope. iphone flagships are frequently discounted with various
promotions.
you claim to have taken advantage of several such discounts.
He is welcome to back up his otherwise unsupported fantasy that the average iPhone total cost of ownership is less than that of the average Android.
On 12/30/2022 12:05 PM, CDB wrote:
On 12/30/2022 2:05 PM, nospam wrote:
He is welcome to back up his otherwise unsupported fantasy that theHowever he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison
which is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the
launch price while the iPhone flagships do.
nope. iphone flagships are frequently discounted with various
promotions.
you claim to have taken advantage of several such discounts.
average
iPhone total cost of ownership is less than that of the average Android.
As I have done, with citations and references!
If you're trying to bundle Android flagship phones with entry level
Android phones in order to create a fictional average lower cost for
Android devices, that's not logical. You need to compare flagship to
flagship or mid-range to mid-range.
Android flagships generally have MSRPs about the same as comparable
iPhone flagship MSRPs
(though there are some very high-end, very expensive, Android phones for which there are no iPhone equivalents).
Despite similar MSRPs, if you order a flagship Samsung phone directly
from Samsung, the MSRP is considered fictional—few buyers ever pay that price because of all the discounts. What you want to look at is the
street price, or average selling price (ASP).
An $1399.99 512GB Samsung S22 Ultra goes down to 1294.99 with the
student, educator, military, veteran, or first responder discount. That
$105 savings offsets the slightly lower resale value of the Android
device.
Sometimes it makes sense to pay for a month of service on a Verizon
prepaid service to get a lower price on a phone. I.e. the mid-range
Samsung A53 5G is currently $199, locked to one of Verizon Tracfone
brands, but 60 days after activation it is eligible to be unlocked (you
do not have to have service for 60 days, you just need to activate it on
the least expensive plan). So for $229 you can have a phone that Samsung charges $427.49 for. In many ways, the A53 5G is superior to Apple's mid-range iPhone SE 2022, including a much better screen, and mmWave 5G,
For iPhones, if you order an unlocked phone from Apple, at launch time,
other than the non-inflated trade-in values, you are not likely to get
any discounts—there are no student discounts on iPhone and no discounts
for first-responders, military, or veterans. If you know an Apple
employee you can get a "friends and family" discount (which I did when ordered my Apple Watch).
Another advantage of the iPhone cost of ownership is all the low-priced, easily available, after-market accessories. I can go into my local Daiso ($1.75 store) and buy accessories like screen protectors and cases for
the last few generations of iPhones. For my Android devices I have to
order that stuff from Amazon, eBay, or Aliexpress unless I want to pay
the high prices of a store like Best Buy.
You have to look at the big picture when you are trying to evaluate the
cost of ownership.
To help you learn about cost of ownership, I added a page to the
document <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features>, on page 2, "Cost of Ownership—iPhone Versus Android."
On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 12:52:16 +1100, sms <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/30/2022 12:05 PM, CDB wrote:
On 12/30/2022 2:05 PM, nospam wrote:
He is welcome to back up his otherwise unsupported fantasy that theHowever he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison
which is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the
launch price while the iPhone flagships do.
nope. iphone flagships are frequently discounted with various
promotions.
you claim to have taken advantage of several such discounts.
average
iPhone total cost of ownership is less than that of the average Android.
As I have done, with citations and references!
The problem is that those citations and references get that wrong
and can't explain why the TCO for the Pixel 7 Pro is MUCH lower
than for the iphone 14 Pro Max just because the purchase price
is MUCH lower for the Pixel 7 Pro.
Android flagships generally have MSRPs about the same as comparable
iPhone flagship MSRPs
(though there are some very high-end, very
expensive, Android phones for which there are no iPhone equivalents).
An $1399.99 512GB Samsung S22 Ultra goes down to 1294.99 with the
student, educator, military, veteran, or first responder discount. That
$105 savings offsets the slightly lower resale value of the Android device.
Sometimes it makes sense to pay for a month of service on a Verizon
prepaid service to get a lower price on a phone.
You have to look at the big picture when you are trying to evaluate the
cost of ownership.
On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 12:52:16 +1100, sms <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 12/30/2022 12:05 PM, CDB wrote:
On 12/30/2022 2:05 PM, nospam wrote:
He is welcome to back up his otherwise unsupported fantasy that theHowever he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison
which is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the
launch price while the iPhone flagships do.
nope. iphone flagships are frequently discounted with various
promotions.
you claim to have taken advantage of several such discounts.
average
iPhone total cost of ownership is less than that of the average
Android.
As I have done, with citations and references!
The problem is that those citations and references get that wrong
and can't explain why the TCO for the Pixel 7 Pro is MUCH lower
than for the iphone 14 Pro Max just because the purchase price
is MUCH lower for the Pixel 7 Pro.
The problem is that those citations and references get that wrong
and can't explain why the TCO for the Pixel 7 Pro is MUCH lower
than for the iphone 14 Pro Max just because the purchase price
is MUCH lower for the Pixel 7 Pro.
That's very true, and as the owner of a Pixel 7 Pro I can attest to the amazing discount offered by Google plus the high trade-in value (I got
more in trade-in value for my iPhone Xr than I paid for it). You also
get $100 promo codes for each referral code that gets used.
The discounts off MSRP on flagship Android devices definitely help lower
the TCO. But remember that Google Pixel devices sell in very low
quantities, and it's really the S22 Ultra that is the volume competitor
to the iPhone 14 Pro Max.
The Pixel 7 Pro has some advantages over the S22 Ultra and iPhone 14 Pro
Max, especially the camera system. But it also has a much lower
performance processor. Another _really_ annoying that Google did with
the Pixel 7 Pro was to disable HDMI out over USB. You can get around
this with a Displaylink USB adapter and the Displaylink Presenter app,
but it costs more to do it this way.
otherwise, there are few android phone equivalents to iphones.
An $1399.99 512GB Samsung S22 Ultra goes down to 1294.99 with the
student, educator, military, veteran, or first responder discount. That
$105 savings offsets the slightly lower resale value of the Android device.
there are various discounts and promotions available for iphones, even directly from apple.
Sometimes it makes sense to pay for a month of service on a Verizon
prepaid service to get a lower price on a phone.
very few people will bother doing that due to the hassles involved.
You have to look at the big picture when you are trying to evaluate the
cost of ownership.
which you do not.
He is welcome to back up his otherwise unsupported fantasy that the average >> iPhone total cost of ownership is less than that of the average Android.
As I have done, with citations and references!
If you're trying to bundle Android flagship phones with entry level
Android phones in order to create a fictional average lower cost for
Android devices, that's not logical. You need to compare flagship to
flagship or mid-range to mid-range.
Android flagships generally have MSRPs about the same as comparable
iPhone flagship MSRPs (though there are some very high-end, very
expensive, Android phones for which there are no iPhone equivalents).
Despite similar MSRPs, if you order a flagship Samsung phone directly
from Samsung, the MSRP is considered fictional-few buyers ever pay that
price because of all the discounts. What you want to look at is the
street price, or average selling price (ASP).
An $1399.99 512GB Samsung S22 Ultra goes down to 1294.99 with the
student, educator, military, veteran, or first responder discount. That
$105 savings offsets the slightly lower resale value of the Android device.
Sometimes it makes sense to pay for a month of service on a Verizon
prepaid service to get a lower price on a phone.
I.e. the mid-range
Samsung A53 5G is currently $199, locked to one of Verizon Tracfone
brands, but 60 days after activation it is eligible to be unlocked (you
do not have to have service for 60 days, you just need to activate it on
the least expensive plan). So for $229 you can have a phone that Samsung charges $427.49 for. In many ways, the A53 5G is superior to Apple's mid-range iPhone SE 2022, including a much better screen, and mmWave 5G,
For iPhones, if you order an unlocked phone from Apple, at launch time,
other than the non-inflated trade-in values, you are not likely to get
any discounts-there are no student discounts on iPhone and no discounts
for first-responders, military, or veterans. If you know an Apple
employee you can get a "friends and family" discount (which I did when ordered my Apple Watch).
Another advantage of the iPhone cost of ownership is all the low-priced, easily available, after-market accessories. I can go into my local Daiso ($1.75 store) and buy accessories like screen protectors and cases for
the last few generations of iPhones. For my Android devices I have to
order that stuff from Amazon, eBay, or Aliexpress unless I want to pay
the high prices of a store like Best Buy.
You have to look at the big picture when you are trying to evaluate the
cost of ownership.
To help you learn about cost of ownership, I added a page to the
document <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features>, on page 2, "Cost of Ownership-iPhone Versus Android."
To help you learn about cost of ownership, I added a page to the
document <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features>, on page 2, "Cost of Ownership�XiPhone Versus Android."
antasy that depreciation alone is the only cost of ownership.
I looked at his video https://youtu.be/k741-U2nyM4 which ONLY looked at depreciation and even then it only looked at a SINGLE market segment.
By cherry picking only ONE metric, that video catered to his fantasy.
The video, like him, ignored ALL OTHER METRICS of total ownership cost!
Unofficially, there are lots of places *claiming* you can install it on
the iPhone 6s, 7, and 7+.
no there aren't.
Whether any actually work or not is
debateable,
no it isn't. the answer is a hard no. full stop.
I don't know if there is an under the table way to get iOS 16 for a device >> older than the iPhone 8
i do, and there isn't.
anyone claiming that or giving those who do any recognition has
absolutely no clue about ios.
Unofficially, there are lots of places *claiming* you can install it on
the iPhone 6s, 7, and 7+.
no there aren't.
I don't know if there is an under the table way to get iOS 16 for a device older than the iPhone 8
So it's your assumptions which are "ludicrous", particularly given you are trying to say that total cost of ownership is less for that $1500 iPhone.
Then you repeat your ludicrous argument in your first bullet item when you say that people who care about TCO can't consider that $200 Android phone.
What you've done in your first bullet item is exclude everyone who does
care about TCO so that you can then make your spurious case for iPhone TCO.
You were wrong when you disagreed that the iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone
that Apple says will get all the latest security patches.
nope. 15.7.2 was released for any device running 15.x, including the
iphone 6s and 7 and later models that are not updated to ios 16.
The fellow has a long history of cherry picking data, poor analysis,
outright denying realities of physics, etc. and so on.
You're wasting your time arguing with him and wasting bandwidth as well.
You were wrong when you disagreed that the iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone >> that Apple says will get all the latest security patches.
nope. 15.7.2 was released for any device running 15.x, including the
iphone 6s and 7 and later models that are not updated to ios 16.
Wrong again.
Amazingly, I still don't know how Apple updates its iPhones.
Wrong again.
nope. it was released 17 days ago, one december 13th.
You were wrong when you disagreed that the iPhone 8 is the oldest iPhone
that Apple says will get all the latest security patches.
On 2022-12-29 13:30, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-29 06:17, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 20:59, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 17:12, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 19:20, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 16:09, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2022-12-28 15:38, Alan wrote:
On 2022-12-28 12:32, Alan Browne wrote:
Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where >>>>>>>>> the drain is pointed. So with 'hot' oil. just leave it sit for >>>>>>>>> a bit to maximize the draining.
Faulty assumption there, lad.
Direct observation for my use case, actually. Indeed, as the car >>>>>>> would be pretty much level for a garage "drain" that would be
sufficient. In my case, "more" sufficient.
Direct observation of /A/ car...
...not all cars.
... see below Sherlock.
Now you're showing complete ignorance. The drain is at the rear >>>>>>> of the oil pan which is nowhere near the rear of the engine in
Not all oil pans have the deepest part at the rear of the engine. >>>>>>>
any way.
It may be that way on YOUR oil pan, but your oil pan is not "all
oil pans", or can't you just read?
You DO get that a single counterexample refutes your claim, right?
You do get that prior to all your edits I was talking about my
cars. Right?
You need to learn to communicate better, then. You said, in a
separate paragraph, long after you'd stopped talking about what YOU
do for YOUR car:
"Another advantage to using ramps, the pan is tilted back where the
drain is pointed."
But it isn't always an advantage is it, dipshit?
All in the context of my car. Get over yourself Karen.
Only if you read back to ONE paragraph where you mention your car in a
post that is clearly extolling the virtues of using ramps IN GENERAL.
As I already said, you should learn to communicate more clearly.
This is usenet not an instruction manual.
Get over yourself. You know when you start hurling insults that you've lost. Right?
You keep talking about crazy discounts but many people like me walk into
the OEM store and buy the thing and then they buy common OEM accessories.
They walk out of the OEM store with everything they need for that phone.
You can list all these temporary crazy hard to catch discounts all you want but when you list the price of the phone, you must list the OEM cost first.
Then go hog wild with the hard to find temporary disappearing discounts.
You choose the limiting market segment & the two phones to compare.
List the MSRP for each phone first, and then all those crazy discounts.
Add the sales tax in your locality (if any) on both those prices.
Add the OEM price for a new cable (if not already included).The cable is always included.
Add the OEM price for a new charger that is designed for that phone.
Add the OEM price for a new case that is designed for that phone.
Add the OEM price for a new screencover (if that's what most people buy).
That OEM price at the store is the only price that matters initially.
Only AFTER you establish that price can you go hog wild on crazy discounts.
Just do it.
On 31-12-2022 07:22 sms <[email protected]> wrote:
To help you learn about cost of ownership, I added a page to the
document <https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features>, on page 2, "Cost
of Ownership�XiPhone Versus Android."
I looked at that cost of ownership section which has a few problems.
You need to fix some or all of these problems to keep your believability.
The first thing you say is comparing a $200 Android TCO to that of a $1500 "flagship iPhone" is "ludicrous" but what you don't seem to say (or even to understand) is that there are plenty of people who do buy that $200 Android who do therefore get a total cost of ownership that's perfectly reasonable.
On 12/31/2022 1:31 PM, nospam wrote:
Wrong again.
nope. it was released 17 days ago, one december 13th.
Clearly you still don't understand how Google or Apple update phones.
Please read this link below before you respond with more of your errors https://linustechtips.com/topic/1463731-apple-policy-document-admits-withholding-security-fixes-for-devices-not-on-the-latest-supported-oses/
the people who can't afford the latest and greatest apple devices get
fucked
And those same people could buy a $150-300 iPhone, it would just not be
the latest model, but still be a current model.
I.e., my carrier currently offers:
iPhone SE2020: $149.99
iPhone 11: $299.99
You keep talking about crazy discounts but many people like me walk into
the OEM store and buy the thing and then they buy common OEM accessories.
Very few people are naive enough to do that,
in fact in the case of
Android devices, except for a handful of Samsung stores, it's not even possible.
If you want a Pixel device you can order it from Google or buy
it from Best Buy or perhaps some other electronics store. For Apple it's
a different story of course.
You choose the limiting market segment & the two phones to compare.
List the MSRP for each phone first, and then all those crazy discounts.
Add the sales tax in your locality (if any) on both those prices.
You pay that no matter what.
Add the OEM price for a new charger that is designed for that phone.
You don't need a charger designed for a specific phone except in the
case of some Chinese brands that charge at very high rates. Any USB-C PD charger of sufficient wattage is fine.
Add the OEM price for a new case that is designed for that phone.
Order it on Amazon, eBay, or AliExpress.
That OEM price at the store is the only price that matters initially.
Not true.
Only AFTER you establish that price can you go hog wild on crazy discounts. >>
Just do it.
Oy. You have so much to learn.
CDB <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/30/2022 1:56 PM, sms wrote:
What he was doing with his statements about iPhone cost of ownership was >>>> saying that BECAUSE the resale value of a Lexus is higher than that of a >>>> Toyota, that higher resale value alone means the overall cost of ownership >>>> of a Lexus was LOWER than the overall cost of ownership of a Toyota.
Not at all. What you look at is the percentage of value retained. Toyota >>> happens to be second best, after Subaru, in that regard. In fact, no
luxury brands are present in the top 15, see
<https://caredge.com/ranks/depreciation>.
Your argument about iPhones is that BECAUSE they have higher resale value, >> then that cherry picked statistic ALONE means that they have lower costs.
That can only work if you IGNORE every other measurement of total costs.
If we use the Lexus versus Toyota argument, all the costs of the Lexus were >> more than that of the Toyota, which means that UNTIL you resell that Lexus, >> the total cost of ownership is enormously higher than that of the Toyota.
If, when you finally resell that Lexus, you recoup those enormous expenses, >> then (& only then) would total cost of owning Lexus be less than Toyota.
Cost of ownership is related to initial cost, but there are many other
factors, including cost of maintenance and longevity.
The Lexus costs more (about double) to start with than does the Toyota.
The Lexus therefore has doubled sales tax (which is well spent, but lost). >> The Lexus therefore has higher maintenance fees (for example, DMV fees).
The Lexus has higher repair costs (based on the lookup cited above).
The Lexus shares parts with Toyota and reliability is the same overall.
The support (warranty) for Lexus is about the same as it is for Toyota.
An extended warranty on the Lexus likely costs more than that of a Toyota. >> https://survivalfreedom.com/toyota-vs-lexus-differences-to-consider-before-buying/
https://housegrail.com/lexus-vs-toyota/
What statistics did you provide to show the overall cost of ownership of an >> iPhone being less than that of an Android? You: nothing!He is welcome to entertain his own fantasies, but they defy statistics. >>>LOL, I'm the one providing the statistics and the citations. You: nothing! >>
All you showed was that the average resale value of the (much more
expensive) iPhone was (predictably) more than the average cost of Android. >>
Your fantasy on total cost of ownership is based on that argument alone?
A flagship iPhone has a similar MSRP to a flagship
Android device, and it's important to compare, no pun intended, apples
to apples, when you're looking at TCO (total cost of ownership).
Then LOOK at the numbers, which if I change LEXUS to iPhone, becomes
The iPhone costs more to start with than does the average Android.
The iPhone therefore has doubled sales tax (which is well spent, but lost). >> The iPhone has higher accessory fees (for example, Apple chargers/cables). >> The iPhone has higher repair costs (based on average Android repair costs). >> The iPhone shares parts with Android and reliability is the same overall.
The support (warranty) for iPhone is about the same as it is for Android.
An extended warranty on the iPhone likely costs more than that of Android. >>
One by one you can dispute those statements (which were copied from the
Lexis/Toyota and changed to iPhone/Android) which are the data you lack.
Which of those arguments are you disputing (because whatever arguments
above you wish to dispute, I can look up the statistics better than you).
You can begin your education about cost of ownership by watching this
video: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k741-U2nyM4>.
Stop denigrating me because YOUR argument is based on your own fantasy.
However he uses the "launch price" for his resale value comparison which >>> is not really fair. The Samsung flagships rarely sell for the launch
price while the iPhone flagships do. So the Android cost of ownership is >>> really not higher than the iPhone cost of ownership when you use "street >>> price" versus MSRP.
What matters is you made a statement about overall total cost of ownership >> which was based on a cherry picked higher resale value but in doing so, you >> ignored every other important measurement inherent in ownership costs.
It was the same way with new cars for a long time. A Honda Accord was
about the same MSRP as a Toyota Camry, and a Honda Civic was about the
same MSRP as a Toyota Corolla, but the Toyota's ended up with a much
lower street price. Toyota seemed to have the same philosophy as
Samsung: run the factory at full capacity and sell as many units as
possible even if it means big discounts.
Your argument is a fantasy unless you can show that the overall costs of
all the measurements you ignored, equal what you earned back in resale.
Then show it. Otherwise it's just your own personal unsupported fantasy.
The Lexus is a more prestigious and pleasant vehicle to drive than any
Toyota other than *maybe* an Avalon. That alone bumps up its ownership
value. The same could be said about the iPhone.
In article <tomrkn$m2r7$[email protected]>, sms
<[email protected]> wrote:
In two cases, I've traded in old iPhones for new Android phones
and in both cases gotten more in trade-in value than I paid for the
iPhone when new.
you didn't buy them new. what you did was buy older models at a steep discount with various promotions.
badgolferman wrote:
The Lexus is a more prestigious and pleasant vehicle to drive than any
Toyota other than *maybe* an Avalon. That alone bumps up its ownership
value. The same could be said about the iPhone.
Damn, I thought the avalon was just a "stretch" toyota camry. Still
would use the same mechanicals and be a decent car.
In two cases, I've traded in old iPhones for new Android phones
and in both cases gotten more in trade-in value than I paid for the
iPhone when new.
you didn't buy them new. what you did was buy older models at a steep
discount with various promotions.
Probably. Iphones more than a few years old have the same value as
a goat turd. And for the same reason. Androids are the same.
A voluntary update is a gift. From either Apple. Or Google.
It's not a promise of future support.
On 2023-01-01, Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote:
In two cases, I've traded in old iPhones for new Android phones
and in both cases gotten more in trade-in value than I paid for the
iPhone when new.
you didn't buy them new. what you did was buy older models at a steep
discount with various promotions.
Probably. Iphones more than a few years old have the same value as
a goat turd. And for the same reason. Androids are the same.
Both Android & Apple phones turn into goat turds when you're done with em.
For Apple, there's a vested interest in taking trade-ins--it keeps used iPhone off the resale market other than in Apple's own store,
plus it
creates a supply of refurbished phones to use as warranty replacements.
they have zero incentive to do that.. they'd rather you buy a new phone.
Apple typicly will update os versions of devices that cant be updated
for many years for sec updates.
On 1/3/2023 2:37 AM, sms wrote:
I've turned on old Android phones that are long past the time when
support or updates would be expected and have gotten security updates
to older Android versions. I don't know if I'd classify these updates
as "a gift." The OS provider knows that many devices with older OS
versions are still in use and really has no choice but to provide the
security updates when the issue is severe enough.
It's hard to fathom just how many old devices are still in use but
there are non-enthusiasts that rarely buy new devices. Verizon
finally, after several years of postponements, turned off their CDMA
network, sending LTE devices, presumably low-end Android phones, to
the remaining subscribers with very old devices. Unfortunately, a lot
of non-phone devices also depended on CDMA and needed upgrades.
I am quoting what the manufacturer puts in writing, which for Apple is that only the iOS devices which are running the latest operating system major version (iOS 16 today) will always get all known security patch updates. https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/web
For the Galaxy, Samsung puts five years of security updates in writing. https://news.samsung.com/us/samsung-galaxy-os-upgrade-one-ui-android-unpacked-2022/
Apple says in that clarification above that if you want to be sure of
getting the latest security updates, you must own (or buy) an iOS device which is an iPhone 8 or newer (as all older devices can't run on iOS 16).
That's 5 years of promised-in-writing security updates for Apple.
That's 5 years of promised-in-writing security updates for most Galaxies.
The observation those are essentially the same can not escape your notice.
On 12/31/2022 9:36 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
Apple typicly will update os versions of devices that cant be updated
for many years for sec updates.
All your machinations quoting ten year old Apple fanboi opinions aren't of any import to the concept that Apple says the only way to ensure you will have the latest patches is to buy a new device supporting iOS 16 (today). https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases
Read this clarification of Apply policy again, this time for comprehension. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/
What's revealing is that you're calling Apple a liar because Apple says in the clarification they were forced to publish recently that only the iOS devices which support the latest operating system major version will always get the latest known security patch updates, which currently is iOS 16. https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/web
The oldest iPhone supporting iOS 16 is the iPhone 8 (five years support). Exactly the same 5 years as most Samsung Galaxy security patch updates.
I've turned on old Android phones that are long past the time when
support or updates would be expected and have gotten security updates to older Android versions. I don't know if I'd classify these updates as "a gift." The OS provider knows that many devices with older OS versions
are still in use and really has no choice but to provide the security
updates when the issue is severe enough.
It's hard to fathom just how many old devices are still in use but there
are non-enthusiasts that rarely buy new devices. Verizon finally, after several years of postponements, turned off their CDMA network, sending
LTE devices, presumably low-end Android phones, to the remaining
subscribers with very old devices. Unfortunately, a lot of non-phone
devices also depended on CDMA and needed upgrades.
"More than 35% of iPhone owners who purchased a new or used device over
the 12-month period ending in June either sold or traded in their old
model, according to a survey conducted by Consumer Intelligence Research Partners. About 30% traded in iPhone, while just over 5% sold the device."
Arlen!
Welcome back!
On 2023-01-03, sms <[email protected]> wrote:
"More than 35% of iPhone owners who purchased a new or used device over
the 12-month period ending in June either sold or traded in their old
model, according to a survey conducted by Consumer Intelligence Research
Partners. About 30% traded in iPhone, while just over 5% sold the device."
What you said above means roughly around 3/4 of all those old phones will into instant goat turds of zero resale value when people buy a new phone.
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